He says most of the people he talks to say there is a significant gap between Harrison/Nabers and Odunze.
Says he thinks the most serious teams to trade up for the QB are the Vikings and Giants.
Thinks if the Giants don't land Maye or McCarthy, they want Nabers.
For Giants to trade up from #6 to #4, he thinks the Giants will have to trade next year's #1 and maybe a pick swap in this draft.
Credit to Eric on Li for finding this interview.
Denver Broncos May Trade “King’s Ransom” Including Patrick Surtain To Arizona Cardinals For Pick #4? - (
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Now, if they can get a top 5 QB....sure mortgage the farm..
if they can reset the rookie QB class with an OK QB,, fine as long as cost is ok.
But to mortgage farm for an average QB.....would be a mistake.
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JJ McCarthy?
If you thought giving Daniel Jones a $160M contract was crazy, this one is pure lunacy. Straight-jacket variety.
No one said that here. The idea would be NE took JJM at 3, so the bidding war for Maye at 4 ensues.
That is what the comments in the OP infer.
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In comment 16474693 ThomasG said:
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JJ McCarthy?
If you thought giving Daniel Jones a $160M contract was crazy, this one is pure lunacy. Straight-jacket variety.
No one said that here. The idea would be NE took JJM at 3, so the bidding war for Maye at 4 ensues.
That is what the comments in the OP infer.
You know I love me some JJM, but just because Allbright said he thinks if we don't get Maye or JJM we go Nabers at 6 doesn't mean anyone is inferring we would make that trade for JJM. According to asshats, we wouldn't even take him at 6. A trade up like that for JJM would shock me more than just about any pick at 6.
Now, if they can get a top 5 QB....sure mortgage the farm..
if they can reset the rookie QB class with an OK QB,, fine as long as cost is ok.
But to mortgage farm for an average QB.....would be a mistake.
It's all in how Schoen and company view both McCarthy and Maye, that's all that really matters.
Essentially, predrafting a 1st rd QB a year early. Cost is the current seasons 2nd round pick.
Essentially, predrafting a 1st rd QB a year early. Cost is the current seasons 2nd round pick.
This is a misnomer. Future picks are valued as end of the current round picks, not devalued by a round.
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In comment 16474698 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16474693 ThomasG said:
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JJ McCarthy?
If you thought giving Daniel Jones a $160M contract was crazy, this one is pure lunacy. Straight-jacket variety.
No one said that here. The idea would be NE took JJM at 3, so the bidding war for Maye at 4 ensues.
That is what the comments in the OP infer.
You know I love me some JJM, but just because Allbright said he thinks if we don't get Maye or JJM we go Nabers at 6 doesn't mean anyone is inferring we would make that trade for JJM. According to asshats, we wouldn't even take him at 6. A trade up like that for JJM would shock me more than just about any pick at 6.
Read the comments in the OP that say the cost for us to move to #4. Am I missing something? Don’t blend and mix rumors. Stay on this threads news.
I hope this is smoke.
You realize you can't get Mahomes or Allen for ten #1 picks, right? So now maybe 2 #1s for a chance at a guy like that makes more sense. You can't get Mahomes for 20 first round picks. Process that.
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In comment 16474705 ThomasG said:
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In comment 16474698 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
In comment 16474693 ThomasG said:
Quote:
JJ McCarthy?
If you thought giving Daniel Jones a $160M contract was crazy, this one is pure lunacy. Straight-jacket variety.
No one said that here. The idea would be NE took JJM at 3, so the bidding war for Maye at 4 ensues.
That is what the comments in the OP infer.
You know I love me some JJM, but just because Allbright said he thinks if we don't get Maye or JJM we go Nabers at 6 doesn't mean anyone is inferring we would make that trade for JJM. According to asshats, we wouldn't even take him at 6. A trade up like that for JJM would shock me more than just about any pick at 6.
Read the comments in the OP that say the cost for us to move to #4. Am I missing something? Don’t blend and mix rumors. Stay on this threads news.
Says he thinks the most serious teams to trade up for the QB are the Vikings and Giants.
Thinks if the Giants don't land Maye or McCarthy, they want Nabers.
For Giants to trade up from #6 to #4, he thinks the Giants will have to trade next year's #1 and maybe a pick swap in this draft.
Credit to Eric on Li for finding this interview.
Where is the inferrance of trading up for JJM?
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Absurd notion that the Giants would trade a future 1st round pick to move up 2 spots in the draft, moving from 6 to 4.
Giants are in a desperate position.
They don't have a QB.
I don't care how desperate they are, you don't give up that type of draft capitol! Nope. This team should be desperate to fill all those holes they have!
I'd be shocked, bbi would implode I think.
Maye is the guy to get in this draft. Next year's number 1 means NOTHING!
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In comment 16474709 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16474705 ThomasG said:
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In comment 16474698 BleedBlue46 said:
Quote:
In comment 16474693 ThomasG said:
Quote:
JJ McCarthy?
If you thought giving Daniel Jones a $160M contract was crazy, this one is pure lunacy. Straight-jacket variety.
No one said that here. The idea would be NE took JJM at 3, so the bidding war for Maye at 4 ensues.
That is what the comments in the OP infer.
You know I love me some JJM, but just because Allbright said he thinks if we don't get Maye or JJM we go Nabers at 6 doesn't mean anyone is inferring we would make that trade for JJM. According to asshats, we wouldn't even take him at 6. A trade up like that for JJM would shock me more than just about any pick at 6.
Read the comments in the OP that say the cost for us to move to #4. Am I missing something? Don’t blend and mix rumors. Stay on this threads news.
Quote:
He says most of the people he talks to say there is a significant gap between Harrison/Nabers and Odunze.
Says he thinks the most serious teams to trade up for the QB are the Vikings and Giants.
Thinks if the Giants don't land Maye or McCarthy, they want Nabers.
For Giants to trade up from #6 to #4, he thinks the Giants will have to trade next year's #1 and maybe a pick swap in this draft.
Credit to Eric on Li for finding this interview.
Where is the inferrance of trading up for JJM?
The combination of what you bolded. Why is this so difficult to infer?
Like an episode of who’s on first.
I think Williams is probably #1 (but not my #1), then Maye (who is my #1), JJM then Daniels...
The funny thing I see here is all the folks talking people out of JJM but selling Penix at 6. You can't be serious. Read the Ourlads Guide write up on Penix. He is not the guy for us and especially at 6.
Maye is the guy we need to go and get but JJM isn't far behind..
If they have a conviction about Penix and/or Nix, they need to pull the trigger because they're rolling the dice trying to get enough wins to save their jobs with Lock/Jones/DeVito in 2024.
Say the Giants give up next year's first round pick, BUT Maye is the guy that turns this offense and team around.
Is it not then worth it to give up that pick?! Of course it is.
Also, the Giants gave up their the following year's first round pick to draft Eli. That didn't stop them from still having an excellent draft that year (2005). They were still able to draft Justin Tuck and Brandon Jacobs despite not having a first round pick. So, you could still have a good draft without a first round pick.
If that's the cost to draft Maye; I'd do it. I'm tired of the losing. It's been 12 years!
And what if he turns out to be Zack Wilson or Sam Darnold? The QB or bust opinions here are a bit over the top.
At the end of the day if the Giants have 100% true conviction on a guy than do what you need to. But we have no idea what they think, or for that matter how many IF any of these guys are going to be good pros. Build the fucking team. I'm tired of this shitty roster, watching the Eagles and Dallas completely dominate the LoS against us now every G*d*mn game for how many years now?
However, I like JJM a lot. His ceiling is a lot higher than people on here recognize, but his floor is also lower than the other QB's in this draft.
I think many on this board are going to have to come to grips with the fact that JJM is going to be a top 6 pick, despite previously being ranked much much lower during the college season. Teams clearly see something in him that fans don't.
However, I like JJM a lot. His ceiling is a lot higher than people on here recognize, but his floor is also lower than the other QB's in this draft.
I think many on this board are going to have to come to grips with the fact that JJM is going to be a top 6 pick, despite previously being ranked much much lower during the college season. Teams clearly see something in him that fans don't.
It would be great if JJM would be a top 3 pick. That would be helpful.
No, as bad as it gets is not getting a qb this draft, winning just enough games next year to still not be picking top 5, and Daniel Jones getting injured midseason after poor play guaranteeing more dead salary for 2025.
I hope to god the Odunze thing is true for giants. Do not see a #1 NFL WR there. Yes, I know that's a dangerous opinion to have here but remember so many of these "safe" prospects are going to bust. Evan Neal, ahem.
Here’s Sy’s take pre-draft:
Barring injury it would be shocking if any those 3 WRs bust.
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You’re basically coming out of the draft with no starting graded players except for the QB who is probably not going to start. I don’t know how people think that makes sense. Earning the #1 pick in 2025 and watching another team benefit would be as bad as it gets
No, as bad as it gets is not getting a qb this draft, winning just enough games next year to still not be picking top 5, and Daniel Jones getting injured midseason after poor play guaranteeing more dead salary for 2025.
Yeah, 7 wins (Vegas had the o/u at 6.5) would put us in the 8-12 range. Could be a tough spot and worse than this year with less quality QBs in the draft. That is my big fear too. That's the only reason I would be ok with the king's ransom for Maye if they believed in him. I see no way we trade a haul for JJM and I wonder if any teams will. He might be there at 6, unless Payton loves him. I believe the asshat report saying Minnesota isn't enamored with him and they have Maye #1 with fallback option being Penix. I don't see the Raiders trading a haul for JJM either.
People think that if the Giants grab even a near-franchise quarterback and an elite wide receiver, then the mediocrity of the offensive line (last years' with some free agents added to the mix - how well has that worked out?) and the mediocrity of the running game won't matter.
It may have changed in recent years, but it used to be dogma that one gets the blockers before one gets the skill positions. Odell Beckham Jr. is a perfect example of why. He had three fine seasons with the team but their record in the first two was 6-10. Blame it on the defense if you like, but in any event, even if you think OBJ's play made the offense playoff caliber, look at what happened in his 4th season.
Like so many skill players, including Barkley and Jones, he fractured a bone and missed 12 of the games. He was never the same afterwards with respect to touchdowns and long gainers.
Worse than that, in his 7th, 8th and 9th seasons he played in six, eight and seven games (maybe the order is wrong). And now he's on the verge of being out of football. An offensive lineman or even a tight end chosen in his place at age 31 would have been a rock through many games and still had some good years ahead.
Everyone agrees that the Eagles built their winning team through their offensive line. The Cowboys pretty much the same. But Giant fans want to take the shortcut to the downfield passing game.
But I could be wrong. Times change.
People think that if the Giants grab even a near-franchise quarterback and an elite wide receiver, then the mediocrity of the offensive line (last years' with some free agents added to the mix - how well has that worked out?) and the mediocrity of the running game won't matter.
It may have changed in recent years, but it used to be dogma that one gets the blockers before one gets the skill positions. Odell Beckham Jr. is a perfect example of why. He had three fine seasons with the team but their record in the first two was 6-10. Blame it on the defense if you like, but in any event, even if you think OBJ's play made the offense playoff caliber, look at what happened in his 4th season.
Like so many skill players, including Barkley and Jones, he fractured a bone and missed 12 of the games. He was never the same afterwards with respect to touchdowns and long gainers.
Worse than that, in his 7th, 8th and 9th seasons he played in six, eight and seven games (maybe the order is wrong). And now he's on the verge of being out of football. An offensive lineman or even a tight end chosen in his place at age 31 would have been a rock through many games and still had some good years ahead.
Everyone agrees that the Eagles built their winning team through their offensive line. The Cowboys pretty much the same. But Giant fans want to take the shortcut to the downfield passing game.
But I could be wrong. Times change.
Well Eleumanor is solid and Runyon is at least better than the last guys and wasn't bad as a starter. He's good in pass blocking according to pff. Plus we signed some TEs that specialize in blocking. And a good ol coach. The line will be better than last year, which isn't saying much, we will see how much better it is. They put a lot of capital onto it. Eleumanor is legit, I can say that. He's also been a guy that's been improving each year and started playing football in like his junior or senior year of high school, and he's working with the same ol coach.
I think the idea is that we won't be within striking distance of QBs this promising for a while. The over under is 6.5 I think we could get 7 wins and be in a qb draft with less promising prospects than this one and have a very low chance of getting one next year. Feels like the wisest decision is to do our best to get one this year if we can and if we can't trade back and stack draft capital in 2025 so we can move up.
+1
I think Schoen is smart enough to get in a swap maybe a two next year. That would soften the blow of giving up next year's one. The big question for me are any of next years qbs worth risking passing on the likes of Maye or JJM? I'm pretty sure Schoen/Daboll have taken in that factor and hopefully make the right decision this year. If they screw it up the Giants will remain a terrible franchise for many years. It is not hyperbole to say this year is super critical in starting getting this franchise back to prominence .
He's not saying the Giants would do it, he's saying that's what it would take.
And the fact that NE, Vikings, Denver are all angling for the guy.
Is he is a risk? Absolutely. Every QB is - so are Williams, Maye and Daniels
But JJ McCarthy is as good of a prospect- 84 grade as we have had on the board when we have selected in a decade. The only higher graded QB on the board when we drafted was Rosen -89 but he had character concerns and Herbert for those questioning was an 82 grade and had tons of questions that people have conveniently forgotten about at time of draft.
You dont have to like McCarthy to recognize he is absolutely worthy of the 6 pick
This assumes he continues to develop and takes bigger steps in college. That's not always the case.
There are legitimate concerns with JJ (as with all QBs). If Daboll wants him, then fine. He needs to earn his money and develop him.
This was a QB draft with 5 QBs (Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen, Jackson) going in rd 1
We held the 2 pick and a shot at 4 of them (or a trade up from rd 2 for Jackson)
2 of the 4 available are Hall of Fame bound already
The Giants had a 50/50 shot to draft a Hall of Fame QB and chose not to even take a swing
The QBs we have a had a shot at drafting in 5 YEARS since? (Daniel Jones, Haskins, Tua, Herbert, Pickett, Levis, Fields, Mac Jones) .
Only Herbert has a real shot at the HoF.
Thats the total amount of 1st rd draftable QBs on board when we picked in 5 years!
This is a QB draft and there are 6 guys . We must take a swing and draft one. You cant just wait for next year on QB.
Take a swing!
Let's be perfectly clear too, neither Maye nor McCarthy would likely be starting this year anyway. So that 2025 #1 is going to be a top 10 at worst.
I see a case for BPA at 6 (QB's already picked), trading up or trading back and addressing QB later.
The relative value of a top 3rd quarterback can't be understated. In the last 10 years there isn't a combination of two Giants first round picks that would be worth more than a top 3rd QB, including Thomas, Lawrence, and Beckham.
So McCarthy moves into an arguably weaker QB draft class and moves up the pecking order. Does that make him a better NFL prospect?
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...since Penix and Nix are likely viewed as 1st rd picks, take the WR at 6 and trade 2025#1 and 47 to move up to get one of them.
Essentially, predrafting a 1st rd QB a year early. Cost is the current seasons 2nd round pick.
This is a misnomer. Future picks are valued as end of the current round picks, not devalued by a round.
So, if you are suggesting that using next years 1st counts as a 2nd...sobeit.
The question is,
Take Nix/Penix as a 2nd pick using 47 and next years 1st?
This
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BUT, you have to remember this team has sucked for the last 12 years. 12 YEARS! You are thisclose to quite possibly getting that franchise QB and turning it all around (Maye).
Say the Giants give up next year's first round pick, BUT Maye is the guy that turns this offense and team around.
Is it not then worth it to give up that pick?! Of course it is.
Also, the Giants gave up their the following year's first round pick to draft Eli. That didn't stop them from still having an excellent draft that year (2005). They were still able to draft Justin Tuck and Brandon Jacobs despite not having a first round pick. So, you could still have a good draft without a first round pick.
If that's the cost to draft Maye; I'd do it. I'm tired of the losing. It's been 12 years!
And what if he turns out to be Zack Wilson or Sam Darnold? The QB or bust opinions here are a bit over the top.
At the end of the day if the Giants have 100% true conviction on a guy than do what you need to. But we have no idea what they think, or for that matter how many IF any of these guys are going to be good pros. Build the fucking team. I'm tired of this shitty roster, watching the Eagles and Dallas completely dominate the LoS against us now every G*d*mn game for how many years now?
You are 100% correct. IMO the Giants are not trading up, let me repeat, not trading up, in this draft. Silly to give away picks with a number of holes to fill.
If we had the #1 pick after going 0-17 with even more holes would you not want to take a top QB prospect? I truly don’t understand this line of thinking.
But if you want Maye or McCarthy, there is a good chance you are going to have to give up next year's #1.
If not, the Giants don't get a QB in this draft because Penix and Nix are probably going in the 1st round after you pick.
Not all 1st round picks are created equal
I would expect the Giants #1 next draft will be around the same as this years
If they really believe in the QB they can get with it - I guess you have to do it. But damn, you’d better be really right.
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In comment 16474711 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...since Penix and Nix are likely viewed as 1st rd picks, take the WR at 6 and trade 2025#1 and 47 to move up to get one of them.
Essentially, predrafting a 1st rd QB a year early. Cost is the current seasons 2nd round pick.
This is a misnomer. Future picks are valued as end of the current round picks, not devalued by a round.
Using this years 2nd is a 2nd.
So, if you are suggesting that using next years 1st counts as a 2nd...sobeit.
The question is,
Take Nix/Penix as a 2nd pick using 47 and next years 1st?
My fault, I thought you were saying future pick is devalued by a round which is a misnomer a lot of people think. 2025 2nd is valued by NFL teams as a current years 2nd in the back of the round. I agree with you, my fault for the misunderstanding. It's a no brainer if you love the QB.