Albright drops some important tidbits

I've no idea how much Albright actually knows, but I can buy what he's selling.

Absurd notion that the Giants would trade a future 1st round pick to move up 2 spots in the draft, moving from 6 to 4.

are ahead of Odunze?

Arizona wants one of the top WR.

If they like him, I think they'll draft him at 4. I think it's as simple as that. I'd consider Penix at 6 while keeping the 2025 first. But, if they like McCarthy enough I'm fine with it.

In comment 16474624 ryanmkeane said:

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Absurd notion that the Giants would trade a future 1st round pick to move up 2 spots in the draft, moving from 6 to 4.

Giants are in a desperate position.

They don't have a QB.

In comment 16474628 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 16474624 ryanmkeane said: Quote: Absurd notion that the Giants would trade a future 1st round pick to move up 2 spots in the draft, moving from 6 to 4. Giants are in a desperate position. They don't have a QB.

Right. And that has nothing to do with trade value in any draft. No team would give up a 1st round pick to move up two spots, especially if it’s not for the #1 overall pick.

I don't see them trading down with anyone unless it's us. Murray has 111.5 million guaranteed still on his deal. He is curtailed only in 2026 and it's still 20 million in dead cap then. He finished the year strong and has never had an elite wr. I think Nabers would pair much better with Murray's skillset than MHJ, I'd wager to bet AZ has them rated extremely close with Nabers maybe even rated higher than MHJ. They are not trading down past 6 if you ask me. They need a wr more than any team in the league and there are 2-3 absolutely elite wr prospects (likely 2 they have targeted together).

In comment 16474624 ryanmkeane said:

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Absurd notion that the Giants would trade a future 1st round pick to move up 2 spots in the draft, moving from 6 to 4.

That's the cost. That's why I don't think the Vikings have the ammo to jump the Giants.

We're all just guessing.

In comment 16474631 BleedBlue46 said:

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I don't see them trading down with anyone unless it's us. Murray has 111.5 million guaranteed still on his deal. He is curtailed only in 2026 and it's still 20 million in dead cap then. He finished the year strong and has never had an elite wr. I think Nabers would pair much better with Murray's skillset than MHJ, I'd wager to bet AZ has them rated extremely close with Nabers maybe even rated higher than MHJ. They are not trading down past 6 if you ask me. They need a wr more than any team in the league and there are 2-3 absolutely elite wr prospects (likely 2 they have targeted together).

Arizona can trade down and then trade back up to #5. They have done this before. And they have a ton of picks.

In comment 16474629 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

In comment 16474628 Eric from BBI said: Quote: In comment 16474624 ryanmkeane said: Quote: Absurd notion that the Giants would trade a future 1st round pick to move up 2 spots in the draft, moving from 6 to 4. Giants are in a desperate position. They don't have a QB. Right. And that has nothing to do with trade value in any draft. No team would give up a 1st round pick to move up two spots, especially if it’s not for the #1 overall pick.

If JJM goes 3 and they are truly enamored with Maye then im sure Schoen would do that. He would be trading less to AZ to get his guy than he would to NE. He's likely already offered pick 6 2025 1st and some in negotiations with NE for Maye.

In comment 16474632 BH28 said:

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In comment 16474624 ryanmkeane said: Quote: Absurd notion that the Giants would trade a future 1st round pick to move up 2 spots in the draft, moving from 6 to 4. That's the cost. That's why I don't think the Vikings have the ammo to jump the Giants.

I don't think that is the cost. That may be the asking price but nobody should be that stupid to pay it.

Simultaneous discussions going on with hypotheticals that see us gain or lose future firsts. The lead up to this draft has been a lot of fun.

on this thread wants to give up next year's #1.

But if you want Maye or McCarthy, there is a good chance you are going to have to give up next year's #1.

If not, the Giants don't get a QB in this draft because Penix and Nix are probably going in the 1st round after you pick.

and Odunze, there's a few trade scenarios, both up and down, where that could be a benefit to us.

= pick 6.

kicker for Giants fans is this... getting the QB is probably the right move. However, Maye and McCarthy are both guys who you really don't want playing in 2024.

So in this scenario, Lock still is your QB1 in 2024.

to warrant trading a future first for, that will likely be a top 10 pick ?

Arizona wants at least two first rounders and the Giants won't do it, Arizona can do the deal with the Vikings for #11 and #23 and take Brian Thomas at #11.

In comment 16474649 Ned In Atlanta said:

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to warrant trading a future first for, that will likely be a top 10 pick ?

Heavily discussed here for months.

Immaterial at this point. He's going in the top 6.

In comment 16474628 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 16474624 ryanmkeane said: Quote: Absurd notion that the Giants would trade a future 1st round pick to move up 2 spots in the draft, moving from 6 to 4. Giants are in a desperate position. They don't have a QB.

They are not THAT desperate; they can get a QB at 6 - Penix and Nix They can even probably trade a bit back and still get them. Both are better than Jones.

Would people still want to hold the 2025 first to prevent a trade up. As Schoen said today, the QB tax is real.

In comment 16474646 Eric from BBI said:

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kicker for Giants fans is this... getting the QB is probably the right move. However, Maye and McCarthy are both guys who you really don't want playing in 2024. So in this scenario, Lock still is your QB1 in 2024.

Maye, I agree, McCarthy, I'd be ok with him starting because he's more pro ready.

The giants liking McCarthy enough to trade a future 1st. Maye....I could see an aggressive move.

I hope to god the Odunze thing is true for giants. Do not see a #1 NFL WR there. Yes, I know that's a dangerous opinion to have here but remember so many of these "safe" prospects are going to bust. Evan Neal, ahem.

and I think Davoli needs his own QB to be judged appropriately. If Neighbors is the guy at six them so be it...

If NYG needs to fork over 6 and 2025 first, JS should try to get a pick in return, say 2025 2nd or 3rd round pick?

Yes you give up the 1st rounder but at least get some draft capital back.

I think AZ would accept that.

But I keep thinking, if only we had picks 5 and 7 this year instead of 2 years ago. Sometimes timing is everything.

In comment 16474651 Professor Falken said:

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Arizona wants at least two first rounders and the Giants won't do it, Arizona can do the deal with the Vikings for #11 and #23 and take Brian Thomas at #11.

Too steep of a fall. And they would need much more than #11 and #23.

In comment 16474660 Rjanyg said:

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If NYG needs to fork over 6 and 2025 first, JS should try to get a pick in return, say 2025 2nd or 3rd round pick? Yes you give up the 1st rounder but at least get some draft capital back. I think AZ would accept that.

As posted above, Albright mentioned a pick swap.

In comment 16474635 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 16474631 BleedBlue46 said: Quote: I don't see them trading down with anyone unless it's us. Murray has 111.5 million guaranteed still on his deal. He is curtailed only in 2026 and it's still 20 million in dead cap then. He finished the year strong and has never had an elite wr. I think Nabers would pair much better with Murray's skillset than MHJ, I'd wager to bet AZ has them rated extremely close with Nabers maybe even rated higher than MHJ. They are not trading down past 6 if you ask me. They need a wr more than any team in the league and there are 2-3 absolutely elite wr prospects (likely 2 they have targeted together). Arizona can trade down and then trade back up to #5. They have done this before. And they have a ton of picks.

That's true, I'm not sure they would net much then though vs trading with us and not trading back up they would get much less I'd imagine?

In comment 16474662 Chris684 said:

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But I keep thinking, if only we had picks 5 and 7 this year instead of 2 years ago. Sometimes timing is everything.

THIS... we get two picks in the top 7 for the first time in franchise history and there are no QBs!!!!

And this year??? Four may go in a row?

You have to be kidding me.

Their GM did it last year and with great success.

In comment 16474664 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 16474660 Rjanyg said: Quote: If NYG needs to fork over 6 and 2025 first, JS should try to get a pick in return, say 2025 2nd or 3rd round pick? Yes you give up the 1st rounder but at least get some draft capital back. I think AZ would accept that. As posted above, Albright mentioned a pick swap.

I thought you meant NYG would have to give an extra pick. Gotcha!

contrary to what albright says most of the revised draft charts have far less of an exponential difference in the first 6 picks, though there are obviously teams who have paid desperate prices to move up.

if i were the giants, unless i loved whoever QB4 is like they were next year's 1st overall pick, i think i'd sit tight with fair offers on the table to AZ and LAC and hope at the end of the day they fall in love with someone they would lose by going past #6 (nabers, alt, whoever). most of the charts have fair offers being a day 2 pick, so i dont think id go beyond a day 2 pick this year and next year for #4 and just 1 pick for #5.

BUT, you have to remember this team has sucked for the last 12 years. 12 YEARS! You are thisclose to quite possibly getting that franchise QB and turning it all around (Maye).

Say the Giants give up next year's first round pick, BUT Maye is the guy that turns this offense and team around.

Is it not then worth it to give up that pick?! Of course it is.

Also, the Giants gave up their the following year's first round pick to draft Eli. That didn't stop them from still having an excellent draft that year (2005). They were still able to draft Justin Tuck and Brandon Jacobs despite not having a first round pick. So, you could still have a good draft without a first round pick.

If that's the cost to draft Maye; I'd do it. I'm tired of the losing. It's been 12 years!

In comment 16474670 Eric on Li said:

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contrary to what albright says most of the revised draft charts have far less of an exponential difference in the first 6 picks, though there are obviously teams who have paid desperate prices to move up. if i were the giants, unless i loved whoever QB4 is like they were next year's 1st overall pick, i think i'd sit tight with fair offers on the table to AZ and LAC and hope at the end of the day they fall in love with someone they would lose by going past #6 (nabers, alt, whoever). most of the charts have fair offers being a day 2 pick, so i dont think id go beyond a day 2 pick this year and next year for #4 and just 1 pick for #5.

Obviously, the ideal scenario is for Maye or McCarthy to somehow fall to #6.

Could it happen? Yes.

Is it likely? Dubious.

If you pass on the QB at #6, you take the WR or trade down.

In comment 16474629 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

In comment 16474628 Eric from BBI said: Quote: In comment 16474624 ryanmkeane said: Quote: Absurd notion that the Giants would trade a future 1st round pick to move up 2 spots in the draft, moving from 6 to 4. Giants are in a desperate position. They don't have a QB. Right. And that has nothing to do with trade value in any draft. No team would give up a 1st round pick to move up two spots, especially if it’s not for the #1 overall pick.

If the same QB is there at 4 as he tried to trade for at 3, then he would be willing to trade the same package for 4 as 3. How is that hard to understand?

In comment 16474652 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 16474649 Ned In Atlanta said: Quote: to warrant trading a future first for, that will likely be a top 10 pick ? Heavily discussed here for months. Immaterial at this point. He's going in the top 6.

Eric if he does (and before us) guarantees MHJR or Nabers. Not a bad consolation. I think it helps the giants if he goes before us. If someone else grabs a receiver a top 3 qb could just fall into our laps.

seems absurd. Id rather trade three 1s for an established QB like Allen.

I hope this is smoke.

need to accept that Minnesota, Denver, and some other teams may be willing to make "godfather" offers to move up to get Maye or JJM. Schoen hopefully won't do that, and will instead move to "Plan B."

Moving from #6 to #3, or even #6 to #4, will absolutely have to include our #1 next year. Arizona has all the levarage. Nobody knows how they have the WRs ranked. They may have MHJ way ahead of Nabers and Odunze.

In comment 16474677 upnyg said:

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seems absurd. Id rather trade three 1s for an established QB like Allen. I hope this is smoke.

LOL... ummm, I don't think the Bills are going to trade Allen.

Maybe KC will send us Mahomes.

In comment 16474681 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 16474677 upnyg said: Quote: seems absurd. Id rather trade three 1s for an established QB like Allen. I hope this is smoke. LOL... ummm, I don't think the Bills are going to trade Allen. Maybe KC will send us Mahomes.

One can dream!

In comment 16474668 Eric from BBI said:

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Their GM did it last year and with great success.

the return was good but he also gave up will anderson who won DROY and went to pro bowl. they moved up for paris johnson and he appears to be a solid starting OT but for that to end up worth they need to hit on the 27th pick this year.

You are absolutely correct in saying that the "worst case" scenario is "settling" for an impact WR at a huge need position.

The issue here is we don't have a QB.

We've got to get one this year or next year.

In comment 16474668 Eric from BBI said:

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Their GM did it last year and with great success.

Totally, but that was from 3 to 12 then 12 to 6, going from 4 to 11 then back to 5 would likely not net you more than trading down to 6 if it was for Maye then I presume Schoen would trade them 2025 1st and 2nd perhaps. If it's for JJM, then forget about it Schoen is unlikely to even think about it.

If they really want Maye though, then there best chance is to go to 3 with NE having a deal ready to go back up to 4 for JJM. I don't think Min would trade nearly as much for JJM as for Maye (just like how I think Schoen feels about it). I'd say if they have Nabers and MHJ with comprable ratings then they'd trade with us, if they have one rated significantly higher they would either take him or trade down and then back up to 6.

I'm still thinking it's Maye or trade down for Schoen.

In comment 16474677 upnyg said:

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seems absurd. Id rather trade three 1s for an established QB like Allen. I hope this is smoke.

When do established QB like Allen actually become available at any price?

JJ McCarthy?

If you thought giving Daniel Jones a $160M contract was crazy, this one is pure lunacy. Straight-jacket variety.

the QBs go Williams, Daniels, and Maye, Arizona may be looking at the following offers from Minnesota and Denver:

Minnesota: #11, #23, and their #1 and #3 next year.
Denver: #12, Surtain, and their #1 next year.

To compete with those offers, Schoen would have to at least offer #6, #47, and our #1 next year. I don't Schoen offering that for JJM, although I wouldn't be surprised if he did for Maye.

My position is still take whichever QB falls to #6, if possible, or maybe move up to #5 for #70. Absent that, take one of the WRs at #6 or trade down. It's just too expensive to move up.

In comment 16474693 ThomasG said:

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JJ McCarthy? If you thought giving Daniel Jones a $160M contract was crazy, this one is pure lunacy. Straight-jacket variety.

No one said that here. The idea would be NE took JJM at 3, so the bidding war for Maye at 4 ensues.

or trade down if possible and still draft Nix

But they have QBs.....one who recently won a playoff game and another who has plenty of traits....granted, both are flawed.

Now, if they can get a top 5 QB....sure mortgage the farm..

if they can reset the rookie QB class with an OK QB,, fine as long as cost is ok.

But to mortgage farm for an average QB.....would be a mistake.

In comment 16474698 BleedBlue46 said:

Quote:

In comment 16474693 ThomasG said: Quote: JJ McCarthy? If you thought giving Daniel Jones a $160M contract was crazy, this one is pure lunacy. Straight-jacket variety. No one said that here. The idea would be NE took JJM at 3, so the bidding war for Maye at 4 ensues.

That is what the comments in the OP infer.

In comment 16474705 ThomasG said:

Quote:

In comment 16474698 BleedBlue46 said: Quote: In comment 16474693 ThomasG said: Quote: JJ McCarthy? If you thought giving Daniel Jones a $160M contract was crazy, this one is pure lunacy. Straight-jacket variety. No one said that here. The idea would be NE took JJM at 3, so the bidding war for Maye at 4 ensues. That is what the comments in the OP infer.

You know I love me some JJM, but just because Allbright said he thinks if we don't get Maye or JJM we go Nabers at 6 doesn't mean anyone is inferring we would make that trade for JJM. According to asshats, we wouldn't even take him at 6. A trade up like that for JJM would shock me more than just about any pick at 6.

In comment 16474702 George from PA said:

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But they have QBs.....one who recently won a playoff game and another who has plenty of traits....granted, both are flawed. Now, if they can get a top 5 QB....sure mortgage the farm.. if they can reset the rookie QB class with an OK QB,, fine as long as cost is ok. But to mortgage farm for an average QB.....would be a mistake.

It's all in how Schoen and company view both McCarthy and Maye, that's all that really matters.

...since Penix and Nix are likely viewed as 1st rd picks, take the WR at 6 and trade 2025#1 and 47 to move up to get one of them.

Essentially, predrafting a 1st rd QB a year early. Cost is the current seasons 2nd round pick.

In comment 16474711 Brown_Hornet said:

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...since Penix and Nix are likely viewed as 1st rd picks, take the WR at 6 and trade 2025#1 and 47 to move up to get one of them. Essentially, predrafting a 1st rd QB a year early. Cost is the current seasons 2nd round pick.

This is a misnomer. Future picks are valued as end of the current round picks, not devalued by a round.

think in terms of their willingness to make a major move up for a QB, it's "Maye or bust." I don't think they would move up for JJM, unless maybe it was to #5 for #70. Whether they would take JJM at #6 is unknown. The problem is that I think they already know they likely can't move up for Maye, either because NE will take him at #3, or because they will be outbid by someone if he falls to #4. That may be why the had top 30 visits late with Nix and Rattler.

In comment 16474709 BleedBlue46 said:

Quote:

In comment 16474705 ThomasG said: Quote: In comment 16474698 BleedBlue46 said: Quote: In comment 16474693 ThomasG said: Quote: JJ McCarthy? If you thought giving Daniel Jones a $160M contract was crazy, this one is pure lunacy. Straight-jacket variety. No one said that here. The idea would be NE took JJM at 3, so the bidding war for Maye at 4 ensues. That is what the comments in the OP infer. You know I love me some JJM, but just because Allbright said he thinks if we don't get Maye or JJM we go Nabers at 6 doesn't mean anyone is inferring we would make that trade for JJM. According to asshats, we wouldn't even take him at 6. A trade up like that for JJM would shock me more than just about any pick at 6.

Read the comments in the OP that say the cost for us to move to #4. Am I missing something? Don’t blend and mix rumors. Stay on this threads news.

In comment 16474677 upnyg said:

Quote:

seems absurd. Id rather trade three 1s for an established QB like Allen. I hope this is smoke.

You realize you can't get Mahomes or Allen for ten #1 picks, right? So now maybe 2 #1s for a chance at a guy like that makes more sense. You can't get Mahomes for 20 first round picks. Process that.

In comment 16474716 ThomasG said:

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In comment 16474709 BleedBlue46 said: Quote: In comment 16474705 ThomasG said: Quote: In comment 16474698 BleedBlue46 said: Quote: In comment 16474693 ThomasG said: Quote: JJ McCarthy? If you thought giving Daniel Jones a $160M contract was crazy, this one is pure lunacy. Straight-jacket variety. No one said that here. The idea would be NE took JJM at 3, so the bidding war for Maye at 4 ensues. That is what the comments in the OP infer. You know I love me some JJM, but just because Allbright said he thinks if we don't get Maye or JJM we go Nabers at 6 doesn't mean anyone is inferring we would make that trade for JJM. According to asshats, we wouldn't even take him at 6. A trade up like that for JJM would shock me more than just about any pick at 6. Read the comments in the OP that say the cost for us to move to #4. Am I missing something? Don’t blend and mix rumors. Stay on this threads news.

Quote:

He says most of the people he talks to say there is a significant gap between Harrison/Nabers and Odunze. Says he thinks the most serious teams to trade up for the QB are the Vikings and Giants. Thinks if the Giants don't land Maye or McCarthy, they want Nabers. For Giants to trade up from #6 to #4, he thinks the Giants will have to trade next year's #1 and maybe a pick swap in this draft. Credit to Eric on Li for finding this interview.

Where is the inferrance of trading up for JJM?

In comment 16474628 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

In comment 16474624 ryanmkeane said: Quote: Absurd notion that the Giants would trade a future 1st round pick to move up 2 spots in the draft, moving from 6 to 4. Giants are in a desperate position. They don't have a QB.

I don't care how desperate they are, you don't give up that type of draft capitol! Nope. This team should be desperate to fill all those holes they have!

We give up next year’s first rounder to trade up and grab McCarthy. I can see the Maye’s ceiling and it’s worth the gamble, but McCarthy clearly doesn’t have that ceiling.

In comment 16474721 JoeyBigBlue said:

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We give up next year’s first rounder to trade up and grab McCarthy. I can see the Maye’s ceiling and it’s worth the gamble, but McCarthy clearly doesn’t have that ceiling.

I'd be shocked, bbi would implode I think.

Giants have done too much of it in recent seasons, and look at the results. Built nothing but a loser.

1st for McCarthy will end up getting Schoen fired. Would be a real shame because I had high hopes for this regime.

In comment 16474654 Sean said:

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Would people still want to hold the 2025 first to prevent a trade up. As Schoen said today, the QB tax is real.

Maye is the guy to get in this draft. Next year's number 1 means NOTHING!

In comment 16474719 BleedBlue46 said:

Quote:

In comment 16474716 ThomasG said: Quote: In comment 16474709 BleedBlue46 said: Quote: In comment 16474705 ThomasG said: Quote: In comment 16474698 BleedBlue46 said: Quote: In comment 16474693 ThomasG said: Quote: JJ McCarthy? If you thought giving Daniel Jones a $160M contract was crazy, this one is pure lunacy. Straight-jacket variety. No one said that here. The idea would be NE took JJM at 3, so the bidding war for Maye at 4 ensues. That is what the comments in the OP infer. You know I love me some JJM, but just because Allbright said he thinks if we don't get Maye or JJM we go Nabers at 6 doesn't mean anyone is inferring we would make that trade for JJM. According to asshats, we wouldn't even take him at 6. A trade up like that for JJM would shock me more than just about any pick at 6. Read the comments in the OP that say the cost for us to move to #4. Am I missing something? Don’t blend and mix rumors. Stay on this threads news. Quote: He says most of the people he talks to say there is a significant gap between Harrison/Nabers and Odunze. Says he thinks the most serious teams to trade up for the QB are the Vikings and Giants. Thinks if the Giants don't land Maye or McCarthy, they want Nabers. For Giants to trade up from #6 to #4, he thinks the Giants will have to trade next year's #1 and maybe a pick swap in this draft. Credit to Eric on Li for finding this interview. Where is the inferrance of trading up for JJM?

The combination of what you bolded. Why is this so difficult to infer?

Like an episode of who’s on first.

As you have ZERO idea what order the Giants see these guys in.

I think Williams is probably #1 (but not my #1), then Maye (who is my #1), JJM then Daniels...


The funny thing I see here is all the folks talking people out of JJM but selling Penix at 6. You can't be serious. Read the Ourlads Guide write up on Penix. He is not the guy for us and especially at 6.

Maye is the guy we need to go and get but JJM isn't far behind..

regret not taking them because "it wasn't the appropriate value?"

If they have a conviction about Penix and/or Nix, they need to pull the trigger because they're rolling the dice trying to get enough wins to save their jobs with Lock/Jones/DeVito in 2024.

In comment 16474672 Dave in Hoboken said:

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BUT, you have to remember this team has sucked for the last 12 years. 12 YEARS! You are thisclose to quite possibly getting that franchise QB and turning it all around (Maye). Say the Giants give up next year's first round pick, BUT Maye is the guy that turns this offense and team around. Is it not then worth it to give up that pick?! Of course it is. Also, the Giants gave up their the following year's first round pick to draft Eli. That didn't stop them from still having an excellent draft that year (2005). They were still able to draft Justin Tuck and Brandon Jacobs despite not having a first round pick. So, you could still have a good draft without a first round pick. If that's the cost to draft Maye; I'd do it. I'm tired of the losing. It's been 12 years!

And what if he turns out to be Zack Wilson or Sam Darnold? The QB or bust opinions here are a bit over the top.

At the end of the day if the Giants have 100% true conviction on a guy than do what you need to. But we have no idea what they think, or for that matter how many IF any of these guys are going to be good pros. Build the fucking team. I'm tired of this shitty roster, watching the Eagles and Dallas completely dominate the LoS against us now every G*d*mn game for how many years now?

7th round pick in about 3+ years when he is looking for a change of venue.

uncharacteristic for the Giants. Also, a lot of what we've heard recently is that the Giants don't like JJM enough to even take him at 6, so this would be a bit of a shock.

However, I like JJM a lot. His ceiling is a lot higher than people on here recognize, but his floor is also lower than the other QB's in this draft.

I think many on this board are going to have to come to grips with the fact that JJM is going to be a top 6 pick, despite previously being ranked much much lower during the college season. Teams clearly see something in him that fans don't.

You’re basically coming out of the draft with no starting graded players except for the QB who is probably not going to start. I don’t know how people think that makes sense. Earning the #1 pick in 2025 and watching another team benefit would be as bad as it gets

In comment 16474738 LW_Giants said:

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uncharacteristic for the Giants. Also, a lot of what we've heard recently is that the Giants don't like JJM enough to even take him at 6, so this would be a bit of a shock. However, I like JJM a lot. His ceiling is a lot higher than people on here recognize, but his floor is also lower than the other QB's in this draft. I think many on this board are going to have to come to grips with the fact that JJM is going to be a top 6 pick, despite previously being ranked much much lower during the college season. Teams clearly see something in him that fans don't.

It would be great if JJM would be a top 3 pick. That would be helpful.

In comment 16474744 Rudy5757 said:

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You’re basically coming out of the draft with no starting graded players except for the QB who is probably not going to start. I don’t know how people think that makes sense. Earning the #1 pick in 2025 and watching another team benefit would be as bad as it gets

No, as bad as it gets is not getting a qb this draft, winning just enough games next year to still not be picking top 5, and Daniel Jones getting injured midseason after poor play guaranteeing more dead salary for 2025.

In comment 16474657 gameday555 said:

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The giants liking McCarthy enough to trade a future 1st. Maye....I could see an aggressive move. I hope to god the Odunze thing is true for giants. Do not see a #1 NFL WR there. Yes, I know that's a dangerous opinion to have here but remember so many of these "safe" prospects are going to bust. Evan Neal, ahem.

Hate to go off the thread topic but the ‘safe’ part of Neal was that he could play inside if he struggled at T. He was a prospect with a very real chance of busting.

Here’s Sy’s take pre-draft:

Quote:

Neal is the one with the biggest upside overall, but I also think he has the lowest floor. No, I am not hedging my bet here. My grade is above, and he is OT1 on my board. But what I mean here is, Neal’s biggest issue (balance) has ruined careers in this league. If you can’t stay on your feet, let alone stay solid and strong on them, you won’t be a reliable blocker against players that are just as fast east-west as they are north-south

Barring injury it would be shocking if any those 3 WRs bust.

In comment 16474751 LW_Giants said:

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In comment 16474744 Rudy5757 said: Quote: You’re basically coming out of the draft with no starting graded players except for the QB who is probably not going to start. I don’t know how people think that makes sense. Earning the #1 pick in 2025 and watching another team benefit would be as bad as it gets No, as bad as it gets is not getting a qb this draft, winning just enough games next year to still not be picking top 5, and Daniel Jones getting injured midseason after poor play guaranteeing more dead salary for 2025.

Yeah, 7 wins (Vegas had the o/u at 6.5) would put us in the 8-12 range. Could be a tough spot and worse than this year with less quality QBs in the draft. That is my big fear too. That's the only reason I would be ok with the king's ransom for Maye if they believed in him. I see no way we trade a haul for JJM and I wonder if any teams will. He might be there at 6, unless Payton loves him. I believe the asshat report saying Minnesota isn't enamored with him and they have Maye #1 with fallback option being Penix. I don't see the Raiders trading a haul for JJM either.

Maybe it's me. I know that at this age the grey cells aren't what they use to be.

People think that if the Giants grab even a near-franchise quarterback and an elite wide receiver, then the mediocrity of the offensive line (last years' with some free agents added to the mix - how well has that worked out?) and the mediocrity of the running game won't matter.

It may have changed in recent years, but it used to be dogma that one gets the blockers before one gets the skill positions. Odell Beckham Jr. is a perfect example of why. He had three fine seasons with the team but their record in the first two was 6-10. Blame it on the defense if you like, but in any event, even if you think OBJ's play made the offense playoff caliber, look at what happened in his 4th season.

Like so many skill players, including Barkley and Jones, he fractured a bone and missed 12 of the games. He was never the same afterwards with respect to touchdowns and long gainers.

Worse than that, in his 7th, 8th and 9th seasons he played in six, eight and seven games (maybe the order is wrong). And now he's on the verge of being out of football. An offensive lineman or even a tight end chosen in his place at age 31 would have been a rock through many games and still had some good years ahead.

Everyone agrees that the Eagles built their winning team through their offensive line. The Cowboys pretty much the same. But Giant fans want to take the shortcut to the downfield passing game.

But I could be wrong. Times change.

In comment 16474773 Reese's Pieces said:

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Maybe it's me. I know that at this age the grey cells aren't what they use to be. People think that if the Giants grab even a near-franchise quarterback and an elite wide receiver, then the mediocrity of the offensive line (last years' with some free agents added to the mix - how well has that worked out?) and the mediocrity of the running game won't matter. It may have changed in recent years, but it used to be dogma that one gets the blockers before one gets the skill positions. Odell Beckham Jr. is a perfect example of why. He had three fine seasons with the team but their record in the first two was 6-10. Blame it on the defense if you like, but in any event, even if you think OBJ's play made the offense playoff caliber, look at what happened in his 4th season. Like so many skill players, including Barkley and Jones, he fractured a bone and missed 12 of the games. He was never the same afterwards with respect to touchdowns and long gainers. Worse than that, in his 7th, 8th and 9th seasons he played in six, eight and seven games (maybe the order is wrong). And now he's on the verge of being out of football. An offensive lineman or even a tight end chosen in his place at age 31 would have been a rock through many games and still had some good years ahead. Everyone agrees that the Eagles built their winning team through their offensive line. The Cowboys pretty much the same. But Giant fans want to take the shortcut to the downfield passing game. But I could be wrong. Times change.

Well Eleumanor is solid and Runyon is at least better than the last guys and wasn't bad as a starter. He's good in pass blocking according to pff. Plus we signed some TEs that specialize in blocking. And a good ol coach. The line will be better than last year, which isn't saying much, we will see how much better it is. They put a lot of capital onto it. Eleumanor is legit, I can say that. He's also been a guy that's been improving each year and started playing football in like his junior or senior year of high school, and he's working with the same ol coach.

I think the idea is that we won't be within striking distance of QBs this promising for a while. The over under is 6.5 I think we could get 7 wins and be in a qb draft with less promising prospects than this one and have a very low chance of getting one next year. Feels like the wisest decision is to do our best to get one this year if we can and if we can't trade back and stack draft capital in 2025 so we can move up.

In comment 16474723 JonC said:

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Giants have done too much of it in recent seasons, and look at the results. Built nothing but a loser.

+1

Only a guess but looks like another top ten pick next year. If Schoen believes his future franchise QB ( Maye or JJM ) is his man give up the one next year if that's the only way he gets his man.
I think Schoen is smart enough to get in a swap maybe a two next year. That would soften the blow of giving up next year's one. The big question for me are any of next years qbs worth risking passing on the likes of Maye or JJM? I'm pretty sure Schoen/Daboll have taken in that factor and hopefully make the right decision this year. If they screw it up the Giants will remain a terrible franchise for many years. It is not hyperbole to say this year is super critical in starting getting this franchise back to prominence .

McCarthy (to paraphrase). “If he stayed in school, he would be the slam dunk “1 pick NEXT year. So giving up out #1 next year isn’t so crazy.

that tier 1 is MHJ and Nabers, while tier 2 is Odunze and Thomas?

In comment 16474624 ryanmkeane said:

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Absurd notion that the Giants would trade a future 1st round pick to move up 2 spots in the draft, moving from 6 to 4.

He's not saying the Giants would do it, he's saying that's what it would take.

And open your ears to the plethora of scouts - not analysts like Kiper - saying the same or similar.

And the fact that NE, Vikings, Denver are all angling for the guy.

Is he is a risk? Absolutely. Every QB is - so are Williams, Maye and Daniels

But JJ McCarthy is as good of a prospect- 84 grade as we have had on the board when we have selected in a decade. The only higher graded QB on the board when we drafted was Rosen -89 but he had character concerns and Herbert for those questioning was an 82 grade and had tons of questions that people have conveniently forgotten about at time of draft.

You dont have to like McCarthy to recognize he is absolutely worthy of the 6 pick

In comment 16474791 Dave on the UWS said:

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McCarthy (to paraphrase). “If he stayed in school, he would be the slam dunk “1 pick NEXT year. So giving up out #1 next year isn’t so crazy.

This assumes he continues to develop and takes bigger steps in college. That's not always the case.

There are legitimate concerns with JJ (as with all QBs). If Daboll wants him, then fine. He needs to earn his money and develop him.

The Giants made a huge mistake not drafting QB in rd 1 of the draft

This was a QB draft with 5 QBs (Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen, Jackson) going in rd 1

We held the 2 pick and a shot at 4 of them (or a trade up from rd 2 for Jackson)

2 of the 4 available are Hall of Fame bound already

The Giants had a 50/50 shot to draft a Hall of Fame QB and chose not to even take a swing

The QBs we have a had a shot at drafting in 5 YEARS since? (Daniel Jones, Haskins, Tua, Herbert, Pickett, Levis, Fields, Mac Jones) .

Only Herbert has a real shot at the HoF.


Thats the total amount of 1st rd draftable QBs on board when we picked in 5 years!

This is a QB draft and there are 6 guys . We must take a swing and draft one. You cant just wait for next year on QB.

Take a swing!

to move up and get the QB that they want, then clearly that is what needs to be done - period. I do think moving up to #4 should not cost that much, but perhaps our 2025 #1 swapped for their #2 would be ok.

Let's be perfectly clear too, neither Maye nor McCarthy would likely be starting this year anyway. So that 2025 #1 is going to be a top 10 at worst.

He'd better draft a star QB. Not sure he could survive a miss. There is a #1 WR and two 1st round picks lost in the trade.

Isn't it a no brainer? This is where the discussion drives me nuts. If not now to get a QB, when?

can impact the draft trade chart. More important to get the QB and JS can make future moves to offset losing picks. JS just needs to be right.

I see a case for BPA at 6 (QB's already picked), trading up or trading back and addressing QB later.

In comment 16474812 Sean said:

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Isn't it a no brainer? This is where the discussion drives me nuts. If not now to get a QB, when?

The relative value of a top 3rd quarterback can't be understated. In the last 10 years there isn't a combination of two Giants first round picks that would be worth more than a top 3rd QB, including Thomas, Lawrence, and Beckham.

In comment 16474791 Dave on the UWS said:

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McCarthy (to paraphrase). “If he stayed in school, he would be the slam dunk “1 pick NEXT year. So giving up out #1 next year isn’t so crazy.

So McCarthy moves into an arguably weaker QB draft class and moves up the pecking order. Does that make him a better NFL prospect?

In comment 16474713 BleedBlue46 said:

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In comment 16474711 Brown_Hornet said: Quote: ...since Penix and Nix are likely viewed as 1st rd picks, take the WR at 6 and trade 2025#1 and 47 to move up to get one of them. Essentially, predrafting a 1st rd QB a year early. Cost is the current seasons 2nd round pick. This is a misnomer. Future picks are valued as end of the current round picks, not devalued by a round.

Using this years 2nd is a 2nd.
So, if you are suggesting that using next years 1st counts as a 2nd...sobeit.
The question is,
Take Nix/Penix as a 2nd pick using 47 and next years 1st?

If they wind up trading down, then it could become a factor. But, signs and talent available clearly points to QB or WR.

In comment 16474812 Sean said:

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Isn't it a no brainer? This is where the discussion drives me nuts. If not now to get a QB, when?

This

In comment 16474734 Johnny5 said:

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In comment 16474672 Dave in Hoboken said: Quote: BUT, you have to remember this team has sucked for the last 12 years. 12 YEARS! You are thisclose to quite possibly getting that franchise QB and turning it all around (Maye). Say the Giants give up next year's first round pick, BUT Maye is the guy that turns this offense and team around. Is it not then worth it to give up that pick?! Of course it is. Also, the Giants gave up their the following year's first round pick to draft Eli. That didn't stop them from still having an excellent draft that year (2005). They were still able to draft Justin Tuck and Brandon Jacobs despite not having a first round pick. So, you could still have a good draft without a first round pick. If that's the cost to draft Maye; I'd do it. I'm tired of the losing. It's been 12 years! And what if he turns out to be Zack Wilson or Sam Darnold? The QB or bust opinions here are a bit over the top. At the end of the day if the Giants have 100% true conviction on a guy than do what you need to. But we have no idea what they think, or for that matter how many IF any of these guys are going to be good pros. Build the fucking team. I'm tired of this shitty roster, watching the Eagles and Dallas completely dominate the LoS against us now every G*d*mn game for how many years now?

You are 100% correct. IMO the Giants are not trading up, let me repeat, not trading up, in this draft. Silly to give away picks with a number of holes to fill.

a franchise QB when you don’t have one. Holes everywhere else can be filled any number of ways.

If we had the #1 pick after going 0-17 with even more holes would you not want to take a top QB prospect? I truly don’t understand this line of thinking.

In comment 16474642 Eric from BBI said:

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on this thread wants to give up next year's #1. But if you want Maye or McCarthy, there is a good chance you are going to have to give up next year's #1. If not, the Giants don't get a QB in this draft because Penix and Nix are probably going in the 1st round after you pick.

Not all 1st round picks are created equal
I would expect the Giants #1 next draft will be around the same as this years
If they really believe in the QB they can get with it - I guess you have to do it. But damn, you’d better be really right.

In comment 16474921 Brown_Hornet said:

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In comment 16474713 BleedBlue46 said: Quote: In comment 16474711 Brown_Hornet said: Quote: ...since Penix and Nix are likely viewed as 1st rd picks, take the WR at 6 and trade 2025#1 and 47 to move up to get one of them. Essentially, predrafting a 1st rd QB a year early. Cost is the current seasons 2nd round pick. This is a misnomer. Future picks are valued as end of the current round picks, not devalued by a round. Using this years 2nd is a 2nd. So, if you are suggesting that using next years 1st counts as a 2nd...sobeit. The question is, Take Nix/Penix as a 2nd pick using 47 and next years 1st?

My fault, I thought you were saying future pick is devalued by a round which is a misnomer a lot of people think. 2025 2nd is valued by NFL teams as a current years 2nd in the back of the round. I agree with you, my fault for the misunderstanding. It's a no brainer if you love the QB.