Just how polarizing is Penix? One scout ranked him seventh among QBs in this year's class, behind South Carolina's Spencer Rattler. Multiple coaches also put Rattler ahead of Penix. One veteran coach's comp for Penix was journeyman Brett Hundley.
"The second-best quarterback in the draft, just as a pure film evaluation, is Michael Penix," an AFC assistant coach said. "When someone is often injured, the concern is durability over time. Is his body going to wear down? I'm a f---ing coach, dude. I don't give a s--- about that. I think he's got the biggest ‘it' factor. He stands in the pocket and makes throws consistently. He took Indiana, they were (ranked) in the top 10. He took Washington to the national championship game. To me, he's the guy. He plays with a ton of confidence. His guys love him."
Harbaugh can say whatever the f--- he wants, but if he really, truly felt that way about McCarthy, he would've thrown the ball a lot more. And the proof of it is he did it with Andrew Luck."
I will say I don't really pay much attention to this stuff but I do see the release concerns with McCarthy. Looks like he's really winding up and throwing with his whole body when he's ready to fire. Not sure how much of a concern that is, but if I'm noticing that, I'm sure scouts have known it for years.
Harbaugh can say whatever the f--- he wants, but if he really, truly felt that way about McCarthy, he would've thrown the ball a lot more. And the proof of it is he did it with Andrew Luck."
Zog, that may be true. But there are a ton of similarities with Eli's college situation and Maye's. Didn't play on great teams, had to carry the squad. Probably played more of a gunslinger role because of it.
And yeah, Eli actually wasn't really that accurate of a pro. But he was an absolute surefire bet to win the game when it was on the line.
4 were in the Round 1 only classification (Williams, Daniels, Maye, and McCarthy), Penix had a Round 1-2 grade, whereas Bo Nix was in the same tier as Spencer Rattler with a Round 2-3 grade. Nix also by far was the 6th QB when he asked the 15 scouts are so he talked with about who the top 5 were (the difference between Penix and Nix was slightly larger than the difference between McCarthy and Penix and almost as large as the gap between Daniels and Maye). His rankings clearly look like Williams/Daniels <gap> Maye/McCarthy <gap> Penix <gap> Nix
Coach or in office bozo did they get for those McCarthy quotes? So much inaccurate insights, re: Harbaugh and his offensive philosophy and "not counting on JJ in big moments". Bunk.
One coach they quoted acted like with his coaching and supervision, Jayden Daniels's small frame wouldn't matter. Lol what?
And this is what BigBigBanter were talking about in their video discussing Jayden. Kid can duck and run in college but it won't fly in the pros.
"My concerns with him are that he never throws the ball in the middle of the field. Whenever he decides to scramble, he runs. He had 16 scramble passes this entire season. He gained [1,134] yards rushing, so I'm not going to be too hard on him for that. He took off and ran away from people. But my point is his eyes don't stay up the field -- he takes off and runs. And then he puts himself in harm's way. It's unbelievable the type of hits this dude takes. And very avoidable hits, too."
To me, it's almost been information overload. I could read a million of these and still have no idea which prospect will succeed and which will fail.
NYG REALLY want a QB. That much I'm convinced of. Unfortunately, we're in the mix in a year where there seems to be an excessively high level of desperation. Smart decision makers have the ability to show restraint, though some don't want to hear that, so we may find ourselves out on the position, despite sincere intentions.
They've a plan, whatever it is, hope for the best. NO matter what happens, there's going to be bitching and moaning. It is what it is.
RE: The quotes are all over the place on these guys
To me, it's almost been information overload. I could read a million of these and still have no idea which prospect will succeed and which will fail.
NYG REALLY want a QB. That much I'm convinced of. Unfortunately, we're in the mix in a year where there seems to be an excessively high level of desperation. Smart decision makers have the ability to show restraint, though some don't want to hear that, so we may find ourselves out on the position, despite sincere intentions.
They've a plan, whatever it is, hope for the best. NO matter what happens, there's going to be bitching and moaning. It is what it is.
Agreed. I will root for the success of whatever direction the Giants take in this draft.
If the Patriots would be open to trade down because
Black out the Jerseys, and let them watch game tape and give their own opinions. Otherwise you get everyone either mimicking what they already heard, or trying to be a contrarian.
I know an old baseball scout/consultant who does that. goes to all the PG game, doesn’t read anything online, doesn’t know who is who. Watches the games, and gives his opinion. Amazing how different his reports are, and more accurate.
for Jayden Daniels is interesting.
It’s like 2 different person from LSU vs Arizona state.
Which person or player are you getting.
That instagram from Arizona state players where they hated him can be real.
Conversely, Nabers was praising JD’s leadership during his draft interview.
I guess people can grow up but when you consider Big Rick in FL’s story maybe there’s something to it for his personality. Idk it’s just interesting.
RE: If the Patriots would be open to trade down because
Harbaugh can say whatever the f--- he wants, but if he really, truly felt that way about McCarthy, he would've thrown the ball a lot more. And the proof of it is he did it with Andrew Luck."
This is what I can't get look past with McCarthy. And as good as Herbert is, if Harbaugh truly thought this highly of JJM, why not explore a godfather trade package and draft JJ? Build around JJM with a reset rookie QB contract. There has been zero talk of that, to me that's a little telling.
MCarthy seems like the annual overdraft of a QB. You truly never know, but do you think he has the skills/traits to become a top 5/10 NFL QB? I don't see it.
Reading that Maye part…reminds me very much on Josh Allen.
Lots of good and lots of bad. The bad reminds me of Daniel Jones. Bad pocket awareness, bad accuracy, not quick in the pocket, not big enough to handle bodies around him in the pocket, slow release when passing, bad decisions.
Not arguing, just my take, and I admittedly didn't watch him at all, but the negatives are just too much for #6 overall for me, definitely not worth the trade up IMO. Not when the positives are mostly are size and "clean, character-wise" but as far as skills, "solid, but not special."
Black out the Jerseys, and let them watch game tape and give their own opinions. Otherwise you get everyone either mimicking what they already heard, or trying to be a contrarian.
I know an old baseball scout/consultant who does that. goes to all the PG game, doesn’t read anything online, doesn’t know who is who. Watches the games, and gives his opinion. Amazing how different his reports are, and more accurate.
This is why I stopped posting. I was getting ridiculed for having different views on the qbs than the majority. Most of BBI posters just regurgitate what they read from “pro scouts” or espn.com or Daniel Jeremiah etc. it’s not their opinion. I can see exactly who says what and if you go read
Their bios online it’s word for word the same rhetoric. I just gave up and I’ll wait and see how the draft plays out. I’m done “arguing” my points. The best is when posters go at you and say “show me someone else who says this” that’s my point. It’s my Fing opinion based off what I see. I don’t read any reports until after I’ve formulated my own.
for Jayden Daniels is interesting.
It’s like 2 different person from LSU vs Arizona state.
Which person or player are you getting.
That instagram from Arizona state players where they hated him can be real.
Conversely, Nabers was praising JD’s leadership during his draft interview.
I guess people can grow up but when you consider Big Rick in FL’s story maybe there’s something to it for his personality. Idk it’s just interesting.
Daniels was 19 when he left ASU. Kids grow up. His leadership at LSU should be more of a focus than the fact that a bunch of his ASU teammates got but hurt because he transferred out.
RE: RE: This is exactly what I keep thinking about McCarthy
Harbaugh can say whatever the f--- he wants, but if he really, truly felt that way about McCarthy, he would've thrown the ball a lot more. And the proof of it is he did it with Andrew Luck."
This is what I can't get look past with McCarthy. And as good as Herbert is, if Harbaugh truly thought this highly of JJM, why not explore a godfather trade package and draft JJ? Build around JJM with a reset rookie QB contract. There has been zero talk of that, to me that's a little telling.
MCarthy seems like the annual overdraft of a QB. You truly never know, but do you think he has the skills/traits to become a top 5/10 NFL QB? I don't see it.
Then why did Jim Harbaugh's Stanford teams not perform as well until Andrew Luck arrived? Or be able to win big games until JJ McCarthy arrived? Cade McNamara was there at Michigan prior, therefore why didn't they always supplant other top end teams they eventually did with McCarthy?
Funny to see Luck is brought up anyway. The 2009 Stanford team had a run first philosophy. Luck had 288 attempts all year and their offense still finished 12 in the country.
like this that nitpick prospects, especially QBs, are very common every year. Remember that despite the enormous amount of resources they devote to doing so, many of these scouts and FO personnel have a poor track record evaluating players, including QBs.
I nonetheless think the overall tenor of their comments is worth noting, namely that all these QBs are "boom or bust" prospects. Except for Nix, they all come across as "low floor, high ceiling" players. Their potentially "high ceilings" and the quintessential importance of the position are why I am fine taking any of the "big four" QBs at #6, or Nix in the bottom of the first round after a trade down. But their potentially "low floors" are also why I do not want to trade up for any of them, except maybe to #5 for #70.
With Maye and McCarthy - it seems like their flaws in footwork and/or throwing motion needs to be cleaned up - so whoever drafts them better have a guy that can do it. Daboll did it with Allen. Can he do it with these two?
RE: RE: This is exactly what I keep thinking about McCarthy
Harbaugh can say whatever the f--- he wants, but if he really, truly felt that way about McCarthy, he would've thrown the ball a lot more. And the proof of it is he did it with Andrew Luck."
This is what I can't get look past with McCarthy. And as good as Herbert is, if Harbaugh truly thought this highly of JJM, why not explore a godfather trade package and draft JJ? Build around JJM with a reset rookie QB contract. There has been zero talk of that, to me that's a little telling.
MCarthy seems like the annual overdraft of a QB. You truly never know, but do you think he has the skills/traits to become a top 5/10 NFL QB? I don't see it.
That is actually the first well thought argument I have heard against JJM.
Whatever it would cost to acquire him, would be less than what they would get back in a Herbert trade.
Though, a I was typing this,Mk went and looked up his contract. And it looks like there is zero way they could trade him, so moot point I Guess. If I am reading it correctly, $130mm cap hit to trade him 😮
for Jayden Daniels is interesting.
It’s like 2 different person from LSU vs Arizona state.
Which person or player are you getting.
That instagram from Arizona state players where they hated him can be real.
Conversely, Nabers was praising JD’s leadership during his draft interview.
I guess people can grow up but when you consider Big Rick in FL’s story maybe there’s something to it for his personality. Idk it’s just interesting.
Daniels was 19 when he left ASU. Kids grow up. His leadership at LSU should be more of a focus than the fact that a bunch of his ASU teammates got but hurt because he transferred out.
He was 21 turning 22 when he arrived/played at LSU.
Three years at ASU.
RE: This is exactly what I keep thinking about McCarthy
Harbaugh can say whatever the f--- he wants, but if he really, truly felt that way about McCarthy, he would've thrown the ball a lot more. And the proof of it is he did it with Andrew Luck."
That and the quote about staring at the receiver where the throw is designed to go, and just dancing around until he ultimately just forced it there anyway when it was covered stood out. There are a lot of questions about his decision making where he feels like a real developmental prospect, not a guy you take at #6.
RE: RE: RE: This is exactly what I keep thinking about McCarthy
Harbaugh can say whatever the f--- he wants, but if he really, truly felt that way about McCarthy, he would've thrown the ball a lot more. And the proof of it is he did it with Andrew Luck."
This is what I can't get look past with McCarthy. And as good as Herbert is, if Harbaugh truly thought this highly of JJM, why not explore a godfather trade package and draft JJ? Build around JJM with a reset rookie QB contract. There has been zero talk of that, to me that's a little telling.
MCarthy seems like the annual overdraft of a QB. You truly never know, but do you think he has the skills/traits to become a top 5/10 NFL QB? I don't see it.
That is actually the first well thought argument I have heard against JJM.
Whatever it would cost to acquire him, would be less than what they would get back in a Herbert trade.
Though, a I was typing this,Mk went and looked up his contract. And it looks like there is zero way they could trade him, so moot point I Guess. If I am reading it correctly, $130mm cap hit to trade him 😮
But there is a good chance he'll be there available at 5.
I'm not a capologist but there has to be a way to reasonable trade him if they wanted to. I could be wrong.
Lets say the Pats wanted Herbert and offered 3rd overall, 2025 1st, 2026 1st along with some 2nds and 3rds mixed in. If you truly thought that highly of JJM, shouldn't Harbaugh consider that?
Black out the Jerseys, and let them watch game tape and give their own opinions. Otherwise you get everyone either mimicking what they already heard, or trying to be a contrarian.
I know an old baseball scout/consultant who does that. goes to all the PG game, doesn’t read anything online, doesn’t know who is who. Watches the games, and gives his opinion. Amazing how different his reports are, and more accurate.
This is why I stopped posting. I was getting ridiculed for having different views on the qbs than the majority. Most of BBI posters just regurgitate what they read from “pro scouts” or espn.com or Daniel Jeremiah etc. it’s not their opinion. I can see exactly who says what and if you go read
Their bios online it’s word for word the same rhetoric. I just gave up and I’ll wait and see how the draft plays out. I’m done “arguing” my points. The best is when posters go at you and say “show me someone else who says this” that’s my point. It’s my Fing opinion based off what I see. I don’t read any reports until after I’ve formulated my own.
I would encourage you to keep posting! I don't necessarily agree with you about Rattler, but as primarily a lurker on this site, I enjoy reading your content. Always good to have differing opinions. And who knows, you could be dead on about Rattler.
2008 Luck averaged 24 attempts per game
2009 Luck averaged 28 attempts per game as Stanford went 12-1 and was Harbaugh's last season.
Luck averaged 31 att/g under Shaw.
JJ averaged 22.1 this last year and 23 att/g in 2022.
Fact is Harbaugh ran a very similar philosophy then. Toby Gerhert had over 300 carries. Hell, we saw it in SF with Smith and Kaepernick. He rehired Greg Roman in Los Angeles this offseason, formerly with SF under his guidance.
They weren't a pass happy team with JJ, no kidding. They weren't with Luck, either, nor were they in SF. It's who Harbaugh is.
Just comparing the two to what we have now....if folks want to see someone completely different than Daniel Jones, who will take a shitload of chances, bomb the ball down the field, and have elite, elite upside, that guy is Drake Maye.
If you want someone that has a similar skill set and someone to be slightly better than Jones and you'll just take anyone else because it is not Daniel Jones, it's McCarthy.
Just comparing the two to what we have now....if folks want to see someone completely different than Daniel Jones, who will take a shitload of chances, bomb the ball down the field, and have elite, elite upside, that guy is Drake Maye.
If you want someone that has a similar skill set and someone to be slightly better than Jones and you'll just take anyone else because it is not Daniel Jones, it's McCarthy.
I see it as the opposite . McCarthy is nothing like Jones
He has kind of a slower release -- he really pushes the ball back and pats it and it just takes forever to get to the receivers.
Sounds a lot like someone we know.
I'm not buying what that scout/executive is selling. Maye pumped the ball a lot waiting for the play to develop. But he can rifle the ball with little effort. He's not winding up to throw a pass like he's throwing a javelin - see JJ McCarthy.
I could make a case Maye is the most talented thrower in the class right with CW.
"You're never going to be in that spot again, so you better get the right guy," said one head coach with a strong track record on QBs. "When [McCarthy] did throw it and he had to throw it, it was pretty impressive, man. He beat Alabama -- he had to make big-time throws in that game, and he did. If I was Chicago, I'd be bringing in Caleb and J.J. this week and grinding the s--- out of those two. Because there's not enough evidence to say Caleb is clearly No. 1."
is very similar to the stuff being said about Josh Allen when he was coming out. Allen scared the hell out of me -- in the bad way. He didn't look like he could hit water if he fell out of a boat. The kind of inaccuracy I didn't think could be coached out of a guy. Of course I, and everyone except the Bills were wrong about him.
If the Giants go QB, we have to hope like hell they get it RIGHT, like the Bills did with Allen. Because unless a QB they truly LOVE falls in their laps at 6, they'd be scuttling this year's draft, and maybe next year's to trade up.
The Giants are NOT just "a QB upgrade away" from being a competitive team. There are still tons of roster holes.
I'd be much more comfortable taking one of the 3 WRs who all seem like safe picks. OTOH, no risk it, no biscuit.
amazing and asinine thing I've read in a long time from a scout/evaluator:
Quote:
Just how polarizing is Penix? One scout ranked him seventh among QBs in this year's class, behind South Carolina's Spencer Rattler. Multiple coaches also put Rattler ahead of Penix. One veteran coach's comp for Penix was journeyman Brett Hundley.
That made me LOL. I'd take Penix in a wheelchair over Rattler.
amazing and asinine thing I've read in a long time from a scout/evaluator:
Quote:
Just how polarizing is Penix? One scout ranked him seventh among QBs in this year's class, behind South Carolina's Spencer Rattler. Multiple coaches also put Rattler ahead of Penix. One veteran coach's comp for Penix was journeyman Brett Hundley.
That made me LOL. I'd take Penix in a wheelchair over Rattler.
The Giants will not draft a left handed and physically compromised QB. Penix is just a bad fit
RE: RE: Wish people could scout the QBs anonymously
Black out the Jerseys, and let them watch game tape and give their own opinions. Otherwise you get everyone either mimicking what they already heard, or trying to be a contrarian.
I know an old baseball scout/consultant who does that. goes to all the PG game, doesn’t read anything online, doesn’t know who is who. Watches the games, and gives his opinion. Amazing how different his reports are, and more accurate.
This is why I stopped posting. I was getting ridiculed for having different views on the qbs than the majority. Most of BBI posters just regurgitate what they read from “pro scouts” or espn.com or Daniel Jeremiah etc. it’s not their opinion. I can see exactly who says what and if you go read
Their bios online it’s word for word the same rhetoric. I just gave up and I’ll wait and see how the draft plays out. I’m done “arguing” my points. The best is when posters go at you and say “show me someone else who says this” that’s my point. It’s my Fing opinion based off what I see. I don’t read any reports until after I’ve formulated my own.
I hear you. I do read reports but I only post an opinion on someone if I've actually watched them play. I have always liked Maye since last year a bit, but none of these guys have ever wowed me watching games or Youtube vids like Caleb Williams. He's the only guy in this class that actually appears special to me. The rest are kind of meh... lol. That said, I will root for whatever Shane/Davoli decide to do in this draft. It's silly to get mad at draft picks IMV.
Just how polarizing is Penix? One scout ranked him seventh among QBs in this year's class, behind South Carolina's Spencer Rattler. Multiple coaches also put Rattler ahead of Penix. One veteran coach's comp for Penix was journeyman Brett Hundley.
That made me LOL. I'd take Penix in a wheelchair over Rattler.
The Giants will not draft a left handed and physically compromised QB. Penix is just a bad fit
I'm not a Penix-in-the-lottery guy. And I think NYG would have to use a lot of imagination to take Penix and figure out how to use him effectively.
You can do this in all classes and most all QB prospects, though. At some point, when your current situation is not healthy and not a promising future, you take a chance on a QB you feel your HC can shape and mold into something special.
RE: This is exactly what I keep thinking about McCarthy
Harbaugh can say whatever the f--- he wants, but if he really, truly felt that way about McCarthy, he would've thrown the ball a lot more. And the proof of it is he did it with Andrew Luck."
Those were two totally different teams. Those Stanford teams got into shootouts. Michigan controlled the clock and had great defense...
Go back and read the Michigan game threads from the playoffs. Very, very few had McCarthy as a first round guy. There's been a collective process of talking ourselves into him.
2008 Luck averaged 24 attempts per game
2009 Luck averaged 28 attempts per game as Stanford went 12-1 and was Harbaugh's last season.
Luck averaged 31 att/g under Shaw.
JJ averaged 22.1 this last year and 23 att/g in 2022.
Fact is Harbaugh ran a very similar philosophy then. Toby Gerhert had over 300 carries. Hell, we saw it in SF with Smith and Kaepernick. He rehired Greg Roman in Los Angeles this offseason, formerly with SF under his guidance.
They weren't a pass happy team with JJ, no kidding. They weren't with Luck, either, nor were they in SF. It's who Harbaugh is.
+1. In the 2 years Harbaugh started at Michigan, he himself averaged just over 20 attempts per game. He played under Bo Schembechler and was tutored in the old big ten philosophy. Even in the NFL, he usually threw less than 25/ game.
RE: You read this and think that 9 QB can play on Sunday
Go back and read the Michigan game threads from the playoffs. Very, very few had McCarthy as a first round guy. There's been a collective process of talking ourselves into him.
Go back and read the Michigan game threads from the playoffs. Very, very few had McCarthy as a first round guy. There's been a collective process of talking ourselves into him.
I'm paraphrasing here, but Kurt Warner said on ESPN today that he couldn't invest a high pick on a guy like McCarthy because he didn't demonstrate enough that he was that guy who could win games with his arm. Because in the NFL, that's the game today.
McCarthy was on a very good team who almost always had the lead and it's just easier to play, especially in college, with the lead.
Go back and read the Michigan game threads from the playoffs. Very, very few had McCarthy as a first round guy. There's been a collective process of talking ourselves into him.
How would Maye look on those Michigan teams? JJM at UNC? I think they have much different draft prospects right now.
Go back and read the Michigan game threads from the playoffs. Very, very few had McCarthy as a first round guy. There's been a collective process of talking ourselves into him.
Hey, that sounds familiar
It certainly does.
I really want the Giants to draft a QB and I'll be happy if they draft any of them, but I keep seeing the same things at the top of the scouting reports for both McCarthy (he's a great kid) and Maye (he's big). I don't love that.
Penix was the worst of the 6. And that’s with a loaded team. This cannot be stressed enough. A non mobile QB who struggles under pressure is the definition of thiis “NFL” quarterback.
a few of us did say McCarthy was first rounder. Michigan D's faced pts/game: 10, 11, 13, 18, 19.
OL much better at run blocking than pass blocking. Number one D on the other side. 3 games w/ interim HC. McCarthy had injury (noted by alumni poster).
amazing and asinine thing I've read in a long time from a scout/evaluator:
Quote:
Just how polarizing is Penix? One scout ranked him seventh among QBs in this year's class, behind South Carolina's Spencer Rattler. Multiple coaches also put Rattler ahead of Penix. One veteran coach's comp for Penix was journeyman Brett Hundley.
That made me LOL. I'd take Penix in a wheelchair over Rattler.
The Giants will not draft a left handed and physically compromised QB. Penix is just a bad fit
The injury concerns are valid, but him being a lefty has nothing to do with anything. And before you bring up “but Neal would be protecting his blind side!”, you don’t draft a QB based on who his blind side protector is. Did having no reliable OT’s stop the Giants from drafting Jones? If your RT isn’t good enough, find one who is.
Pelissero is tied to the Vikings closely for years now - this cannot be dismissed.
Pelissero is highly respected much like Jeremiah and Garafolo and Schrager - NFL guys do give this group legit intel and some smoke intel.
Eli Manning's senior season completion percentage? 62%
People tend to forget this is about the NFL projection, not all about how they played in college.
Quote:
Harbaugh can say whatever the f--- he wants, but if he really, truly felt that way about McCarthy, he would've thrown the ball a lot more. And the proof of it is he did it with Andrew Luck."
Yup.
Eli Manning's senior season completion percentage? 62%
People tend to forget this is about the NFL projection, not all about how they played in college.
Football has changed in last 20 years. The better comp is Josh Allen. Don't know the number, but his completion percentage was pretty low in college.
Agree Seems like a perfect fit for Denver.
Sounds a lot like someone we know.
And yeah, Eli actually wasn't really that accurate of a pro. But he was an absolute surefire bet to win the game when it was on the line.
You work with what you know between the head up to now, the physical tools, and experiences on tape.
Some of those quotes do indicate clear risks with all of them (including Caleb).
Still I'm on board taking shot at Maye or McCarthy.
One coach they quoted acted like with his coaching and supervision, Jayden Daniels's small frame wouldn't matter. Lol what?
And this is what BigBigBanter were talking about in their video discussing Jayden. Kid can duck and run in college but it won't fly in the pros.
"My concerns with him are that he never throws the ball in the middle of the field. Whenever he decides to scramble, he runs. He had 16 scramble passes this entire season. He gained [1,134] yards rushing, so I'm not going to be too hard on him for that. He took off and ran away from people. But my point is his eyes don't stay up the field -- he takes off and runs. And then he puts himself in harm's way. It's unbelievable the type of hits this dude takes. And very avoidable hits, too."
If everyone is being honest, there's some concerns about each player.
NYG REALLY want a QB. That much I'm convinced of. Unfortunately, we're in the mix in a year where there seems to be an excessively high level of desperation. Smart decision makers have the ability to show restraint, though some don't want to hear that, so we may find ourselves out on the position, despite sincere intentions.
They've a plan, whatever it is, hope for the best. NO matter what happens, there's going to be bitching and moaning. It is what it is.
NYG REALLY want a QB. That much I'm convinced of. Unfortunately, we're in the mix in a year where there seems to be an excessively high level of desperation. Smart decision makers have the ability to show restraint, though some don't want to hear that, so we may find ourselves out on the position, despite sincere intentions.
They've a plan, whatever it is, hope for the best. NO matter what happens, there's going to be bitching and moaning. It is what it is.
Agreed. I will root for the success of whatever direction the Giants take in this draft.
Black out the Jerseys, and let them watch game tape and give their own opinions. Otherwise you get everyone either mimicking what they already heard, or trying to be a contrarian.
I know an old baseball scout/consultant who does that. goes to all the PG game, doesn’t read anything online, doesn’t know who is who. Watches the games, and gives his opinion. Amazing how different his reports are, and more accurate.
It’s like 2 different person from LSU vs Arizona state.
Which person or player are you getting.
That instagram from Arizona state players where they hated him can be real.
Conversely, Nabers was praising JD’s leadership during his draft interview.
I guess people can grow up but when you consider Big Rick in FL’s story maybe there’s something to it for his personality. Idk it’s just interesting.
Trading down with NYG still allows them to take a top projected WR be it Malik Nabers or Marvin Harrison Jr.
Quote:
Harbaugh can say whatever the f--- he wants, but if he really, truly felt that way about McCarthy, he would've thrown the ball a lot more. And the proof of it is he did it with Andrew Luck."
This is what I can't get look past with McCarthy. And as good as Herbert is, if Harbaugh truly thought this highly of JJM, why not explore a godfather trade package and draft JJ? Build around JJM with a reset rookie QB contract. There has been zero talk of that, to me that's a little telling.
MCarthy seems like the annual overdraft of a QB. You truly never know, but do you think he has the skills/traits to become a top 5/10 NFL QB? I don't see it.
Lots of good and lots of bad. The bad reminds me of Daniel Jones. Bad pocket awareness, bad accuracy, not quick in the pocket, not big enough to handle bodies around him in the pocket, slow release when passing, bad decisions.
Not arguing, just my take, and I admittedly didn't watch him at all, but the negatives are just too much for #6 overall for me, definitely not worth the trade up IMO. Not when the positives are mostly are size and "clean, character-wise" but as far as skills, "solid, but not special."
Black out the Jerseys, and let them watch game tape and give their own opinions. Otherwise you get everyone either mimicking what they already heard, or trying to be a contrarian.
I know an old baseball scout/consultant who does that. goes to all the PG game, doesn’t read anything online, doesn’t know who is who. Watches the games, and gives his opinion. Amazing how different his reports are, and more accurate.
This is why I stopped posting. I was getting ridiculed for having different views on the qbs than the majority. Most of BBI posters just regurgitate what they read from “pro scouts” or espn.com or Daniel Jeremiah etc. it’s not their opinion. I can see exactly who says what and if you go read
Their bios online it’s word for word the same rhetoric. I just gave up and I’ll wait and see how the draft plays out. I’m done “arguing” my points. The best is when posters go at you and say “show me someone else who says this” that’s my point. It’s my Fing opinion based off what I see. I don’t read any reports until after I’ve formulated my own.
It’s like 2 different person from LSU vs Arizona state.
Which person or player are you getting.
That instagram from Arizona state players where they hated him can be real.
Conversely, Nabers was praising JD’s leadership during his draft interview.
I guess people can grow up but when you consider Big Rick in FL’s story maybe there’s something to it for his personality. Idk it’s just interesting.
Daniels was 19 when he left ASU. Kids grow up. His leadership at LSU should be more of a focus than the fact that a bunch of his ASU teammates got but hurt because he transferred out.
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Harbaugh can say whatever the f--- he wants, but if he really, truly felt that way about McCarthy, he would've thrown the ball a lot more. And the proof of it is he did it with Andrew Luck."
This is what I can't get look past with McCarthy. And as good as Herbert is, if Harbaugh truly thought this highly of JJM, why not explore a godfather trade package and draft JJ? Build around JJM with a reset rookie QB contract. There has been zero talk of that, to me that's a little telling.
MCarthy seems like the annual overdraft of a QB. You truly never know, but do you think he has the skills/traits to become a top 5/10 NFL QB? I don't see it.
Then why did Jim Harbaugh's Stanford teams not perform as well until Andrew Luck arrived? Or be able to win big games until JJ McCarthy arrived? Cade McNamara was there at Michigan prior, therefore why didn't they always supplant other top end teams they eventually did with McCarthy?
Funny to see Luck is brought up anyway. The 2009 Stanford team had a run first philosophy. Luck had 288 attempts all year and their offense still finished 12 in the country.
I nonetheless think the overall tenor of their comments is worth noting, namely that all these QBs are "boom or bust" prospects. Except for Nix, they all come across as "low floor, high ceiling" players. Their potentially "high ceilings" and the quintessential importance of the position are why I am fine taking any of the "big four" QBs at #6, or Nix in the bottom of the first round after a trade down. But their potentially "low floors" are also why I do not want to trade up for any of them, except maybe to #5 for #70.
With Maye and McCarthy - it seems like their flaws in footwork and/or throwing motion needs to be cleaned up - so whoever drafts them better have a guy that can do it. Daboll did it with Allen. Can he do it with these two?
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Harbaugh can say whatever the f--- he wants, but if he really, truly felt that way about McCarthy, he would've thrown the ball a lot more. And the proof of it is he did it with Andrew Luck."
This is what I can't get look past with McCarthy. And as good as Herbert is, if Harbaugh truly thought this highly of JJM, why not explore a godfather trade package and draft JJ? Build around JJM with a reset rookie QB contract. There has been zero talk of that, to me that's a little telling.
MCarthy seems like the annual overdraft of a QB. You truly never know, but do you think he has the skills/traits to become a top 5/10 NFL QB? I don't see it.
That is actually the first well thought argument I have heard against JJM.
Whatever it would cost to acquire him, would be less than what they would get back in a Herbert trade.
Though, a I was typing this,Mk went and looked up his contract. And it looks like there is zero way they could trade him, so moot point I Guess. If I am reading it correctly, $130mm cap hit to trade him 😮
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for Jayden Daniels is interesting.
It’s like 2 different person from LSU vs Arizona state.
Which person or player are you getting.
That instagram from Arizona state players where they hated him can be real.
Conversely, Nabers was praising JD’s leadership during his draft interview.
I guess people can grow up but when you consider Big Rick in FL’s story maybe there’s something to it for his personality. Idk it’s just interesting.
Daniels was 19 when he left ASU. Kids grow up. His leadership at LSU should be more of a focus than the fact that a bunch of his ASU teammates got but hurt because he transferred out.
He was 21 turning 22 when he arrived/played at LSU.
Three years at ASU.
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Harbaugh can say whatever the f--- he wants, but if he really, truly felt that way about McCarthy, he would've thrown the ball a lot more. And the proof of it is he did it with Andrew Luck."
That and the quote about staring at the receiver where the throw is designed to go, and just dancing around until he ultimately just forced it there anyway when it was covered stood out. There are a lot of questions about his decision making where he feels like a real developmental prospect, not a guy you take at #6.
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In comment 16474891 Greg from LI said:
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Harbaugh can say whatever the f--- he wants, but if he really, truly felt that way about McCarthy, he would've thrown the ball a lot more. And the proof of it is he did it with Andrew Luck."
This is what I can't get look past with McCarthy. And as good as Herbert is, if Harbaugh truly thought this highly of JJM, why not explore a godfather trade package and draft JJ? Build around JJM with a reset rookie QB contract. There has been zero talk of that, to me that's a little telling.
MCarthy seems like the annual overdraft of a QB. You truly never know, but do you think he has the skills/traits to become a top 5/10 NFL QB? I don't see it.
That is actually the first well thought argument I have heard against JJM.
Whatever it would cost to acquire him, would be less than what they would get back in a Herbert trade.
Though, a I was typing this,Mk went and looked up his contract. And it looks like there is zero way they could trade him, so moot point I Guess. If I am reading it correctly, $130mm cap hit to trade him 😮
But there is a good chance he'll be there available at 5.
I'm not a capologist but there has to be a way to reasonable trade him if they wanted to. I could be wrong.
Lets say the Pats wanted Herbert and offered 3rd overall, 2025 1st, 2026 1st along with some 2nds and 3rds mixed in. If you truly thought that highly of JJM, shouldn't Harbaugh consider that?
There has been zero talk of this.
Toth, good post. Stanford was a great running team with Luck. Steelers drafted a multiple PB/AP OG from that team.
Harbaugh is going to run the ball a lot with Herbert. It's what he believes in.
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Not the scouts, the QBs.
Black out the Jerseys, and let them watch game tape and give their own opinions. Otherwise you get everyone either mimicking what they already heard, or trying to be a contrarian.
I know an old baseball scout/consultant who does that. goes to all the PG game, doesn’t read anything online, doesn’t know who is who. Watches the games, and gives his opinion. Amazing how different his reports are, and more accurate.
This is why I stopped posting. I was getting ridiculed for having different views on the qbs than the majority. Most of BBI posters just regurgitate what they read from “pro scouts” or espn.com or Daniel Jeremiah etc. it’s not their opinion. I can see exactly who says what and if you go read
Their bios online it’s word for word the same rhetoric. I just gave up and I’ll wait and see how the draft plays out. I’m done “arguing” my points. The best is when posters go at you and say “show me someone else who says this” that’s my point. It’s my Fing opinion based off what I see. I don’t read any reports until after I’ve formulated my own.
I would encourage you to keep posting! I don't necessarily agree with you about Rattler, but as primarily a lurker on this site, I enjoy reading your content. Always good to have differing opinions. And who knows, you could be dead on about Rattler.
2009 Luck averaged 28 attempts per game as Stanford went 12-1 and was Harbaugh's last season.
Luck averaged 31 att/g under Shaw.
JJ averaged 22.1 this last year and 23 att/g in 2022.
Fact is Harbaugh ran a very similar philosophy then. Toby Gerhert had over 300 carries. Hell, we saw it in SF with Smith and Kaepernick. He rehired Greg Roman in Los Angeles this offseason, formerly with SF under his guidance.
They weren't a pass happy team with JJ, no kidding. They weren't with Luck, either, nor were they in SF. It's who Harbaugh is.
If you want someone that has a similar skill set and someone to be slightly better than Jones and you'll just take anyone else because it is not Daniel Jones, it's McCarthy.
If you want someone that has a similar skill set and someone to be slightly better than Jones and you'll just take anyone else because it is not Daniel Jones, it's McCarthy.
I see it as the opposite . McCarthy is nothing like Jones
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He has kind of a slower release -- he really pushes the ball back and pats it and it just takes forever to get to the receivers.
Sounds a lot like someone we know.
I'm not buying what that scout/executive is selling. Maye pumped the ball a lot waiting for the play to develop. But he can rifle the ball with little effort. He's not winding up to throw a pass like he's throwing a javelin - see JJ McCarthy.
I could make a case Maye is the most talented thrower in the class right with CW.
So Harbaugh...jackass.
If the Giants go QB, we have to hope like hell they get it RIGHT, like the Bills did with Allen. Because unless a QB they truly LOVE falls in their laps at 6, they'd be scuttling this year's draft, and maybe next year's to trade up.
The Giants are NOT just "a QB upgrade away" from being a competitive team. There are still tons of roster holes.
I'd be much more comfortable taking one of the 3 WRs who all seem like safe picks. OTOH, no risk it, no biscuit.
That made me LOL. I'd take Penix in a wheelchair over Rattler.
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Just how polarizing is Penix? One scout ranked him seventh among QBs in this year's class, behind South Carolina's Spencer Rattler. Multiple coaches also put Rattler ahead of Penix. One veteran coach's comp for Penix was journeyman Brett Hundley.
That made me LOL. I'd take Penix in a wheelchair over Rattler.
The Giants will not draft a left handed and physically compromised QB. Penix is just a bad fit
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Not the scouts, the QBs.
Black out the Jerseys, and let them watch game tape and give their own opinions. Otherwise you get everyone either mimicking what they already heard, or trying to be a contrarian.
I know an old baseball scout/consultant who does that. goes to all the PG game, doesn’t read anything online, doesn’t know who is who. Watches the games, and gives his opinion. Amazing how different his reports are, and more accurate.
This is why I stopped posting. I was getting ridiculed for having different views on the qbs than the majority. Most of BBI posters just regurgitate what they read from “pro scouts” or espn.com or Daniel Jeremiah etc. it’s not their opinion. I can see exactly who says what and if you go read
Their bios online it’s word for word the same rhetoric. I just gave up and I’ll wait and see how the draft plays out. I’m done “arguing” my points. The best is when posters go at you and say “show me someone else who says this” that’s my point. It’s my Fing opinion based off what I see. I don’t read any reports until after I’ve formulated my own.
I hear you. I do read reports but I only post an opinion on someone if I've actually watched them play. I have always liked Maye since last year a bit, but none of these guys have ever wowed me watching games or Youtube vids like Caleb Williams. He's the only guy in this class that actually appears special to me. The rest are kind of meh... lol. That said, I will root for whatever Shane/Davoli decide to do in this draft. It's silly to get mad at draft picks IMV.
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Just how polarizing is Penix? One scout ranked him seventh among QBs in this year's class, behind South Carolina's Spencer Rattler. Multiple coaches also put Rattler ahead of Penix. One veteran coach's comp for Penix was journeyman Brett Hundley.
That made me LOL. I'd take Penix in a wheelchair over Rattler.
The Giants will not draft a left handed and physically compromised QB. Penix is just a bad fit
I'm not a Penix-in-the-lottery guy. And I think NYG would have to use a lot of imagination to take Penix and figure out how to use him effectively.
You can do this in all classes and most all QB prospects, though. At some point, when your current situation is not healthy and not a promising future, you take a chance on a QB you feel your HC can shape and mold into something special.
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Harbaugh can say whatever the f--- he wants, but if he really, truly felt that way about McCarthy, he would've thrown the ball a lot more. And the proof of it is he did it with Andrew Luck."
Those were two totally different teams. Those Stanford teams got into shootouts. Michigan controlled the clock and had great defense...
Look up the stars, Stanford was like USC those years and he still ran the ball a ton. They gave up 35+ fairly regularly
Drake Maye has significantly better traits. Which is why he would be worth the pick.
2009 Luck averaged 28 attempts per game as Stanford went 12-1 and was Harbaugh's last season.
Luck averaged 31 att/g under Shaw.
JJ averaged 22.1 this last year and 23 att/g in 2022.
Fact is Harbaugh ran a very similar philosophy then. Toby Gerhert had over 300 carries. Hell, we saw it in SF with Smith and Kaepernick. He rehired Greg Roman in Los Angeles this offseason, formerly with SF under his guidance.
They weren't a pass happy team with JJ, no kidding. They weren't with Luck, either, nor were they in SF. It's who Harbaugh is.
+1. In the 2 years Harbaugh started at Michigan, he himself averaged just over 20 attempts per game. He played under Bo Schembechler and was tutored in the old big ten philosophy. Even in the NFL, he usually threw less than 25/ game.
+1. At best, it’s 3 stars, 3 busts, 3 mediocre … we need the crystal ball that tells us who will end up where….
Hey, that sounds familiar
I'm paraphrasing here, but Kurt Warner said on ESPN today that he couldn't invest a high pick on a guy like McCarthy because he didn't demonstrate enough that he was that guy who could win games with his arm. Because in the NFL, that's the game today.
McCarthy was on a very good team who almost always had the lead and it's just easier to play, especially in college, with the lead.
How would Maye look on those Michigan teams? JJM at UNC? I think they have much different draft prospects right now.
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Go back and read the Michigan game threads from the playoffs. Very, very few had McCarthy as a first round guy. There's been a collective process of talking ourselves into him.
Hey, that sounds familiar
It certainly does.
I really want the Giants to draft a QB and I'll be happy if they draft any of them, but I keep seeing the same things at the top of the scouting reports for both McCarthy (he's a great kid) and Maye (he's big). I don't love that.
Penix was the worst of the 6. And that’s with a loaded team. This cannot be stressed enough. A non mobile QB who struggles under pressure is the definition of thiis “NFL” quarterback.
Not For Long.
OL much better at run blocking than pass blocking. Number one D on the other side. 3 games w/ interim HC. McCarthy had injury (noted by alumni poster).
What a fool Coach was for not airing it out!
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amazing and asinine thing I've read in a long time from a scout/evaluator:
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Just how polarizing is Penix? One scout ranked him seventh among QBs in this year's class, behind South Carolina's Spencer Rattler. Multiple coaches also put Rattler ahead of Penix. One veteran coach's comp for Penix was journeyman Brett Hundley.
That made me LOL. I'd take Penix in a wheelchair over Rattler.
The Giants will not draft a left handed and physically compromised QB. Penix is just a bad fit
The injury concerns are valid, but him being a lefty has nothing to do with anything. And before you bring up “but Neal would be protecting his blind side!”, you don’t draft a QB based on who his blind side protector is. Did having no reliable OT’s stop the Giants from drafting Jones? If your RT isn’t good enough, find one who is.