No, that's simply not true. You don't give up "whatever you have to" in any situation. Or you won't have a team.
This is a red line.
It takes two to tango. And the other team may prefer the package that the Vikings or Broncos are offering better. The Giants are not going to give up "whatever it takes" to take the 4th QB in the draft.
And the whole 4th ranked QB thing is bull. WE have no idea how the Giants ranked these guys.
RE: RE: what did anyone think of houston's skill players this time last year?
singletary ended up being their best back bc pierce didnt fit new regime.
nico collins prior high in yards was 400.
dalton schultz was the most accomplished player on their offense entering the season with a rookie QB.
that is the NFL. hitting on a Tank Dell day 2 and having a guy like Collins break out in year 3 are the types of things that propel teams every year.
im not saying or predicting this NYG regime will do that, just that the opportunity is entirely there for them if they have gotten prior picks right and get more right next week - which is literally their jobs. if they are good at their jobs this team will take a big step forward in year 3.
if they dont it is the start of a rebuild but it will probably be somebody else's next year.
Eric, that’s more of an aberration than the norm. You can count on one hand how many times that’s happened over the past 30 years.
i am not counting on it happening merely pointing out that it happened, and that things like it happen every season. look at the coach of the year voting every season and you will find that many teams who have had similar happen each season.
that is exactly what happened with this regime and this team in 2022 when they entered the season with david sills, kenny golladay, sterling shepard with rookie bellinger at TE.
RE: Injuries, inflated egos, bad choices, tougher schedule
they won 9 games in 2022 with almost everything going their way.
if i told you andrew thomas would get hurt in week 1 and play more than half the year injured.
and jones regresses + he/tyrod would get hurt leaving them to start a UDFA for a month+.
and Wink would stage a mini-coup from midseason on.
and waller would get hurt as usual and not play all that great when healthy.
and barkley would miss time/regress in performance behind worse ol.
how many games would you expect to revise that 9 wins down to? my best guess is less than the 6 they won.
it is amazing to me that people dont anticipate better how these pendulum's swing in the NFL. the giants could suck again next year or they be this years texans with a great draft and good injury luck. the swings happen precisely because more than 2/3s of the league is at the same roster talent level. a handful are a lot better and a handful are a lot worse but thats it.
I do think we will be on the over side of 6.5 games, but probably not by much. I'd imagine we pick somewhere between 10-15 next year, which will be a tough spot for maneuvering to get a QB. That makes me feel like if they can get a guy they like this year then they should do it. Of course, there is a limit to what we should trade. AZ will either prefer a king's ransom or prefer a moderate package while getting Nabers/MHJ.
Opening night. You're at home against your division rival. Everyone is fired up.
40-0.
Huh? What does that have to do with anything I wrote?
I said outside of injuries, they were completely unprepared from lack of playing time in the preseason. Daboll effed up by not playing them at all. Wink said it would take 4-5 weeks for the defense to hit stride. That’s unacceptable. They should’ve been playing more in the preseason.
Opening night. You're at home against your division rival. Everyone is fired up.
40-0.
Huh? What does that have to do with anything I wrote?
I said outside of injuries, they were completely unprepared from lack of playing time in the preseason. Daboll effed up by not playing them at all. Wink said it would take 4-5 weeks for the defense to hit stride. That’s unacceptable. They should’ve been playing more in the preseason.
The 40-0 bashing proves my point.
I'm not arguing with you. I'm supporting what you said.
You're so obsessed with drafting a QB regardless of the cost that you aren't even using your head.
The Giants are trying to trade up. Period.
They may or may not be able to win a bidding competition.
(I knew we were going to have fans who can't accept that reality, and you're obviously one of them).
Eric, you're putting words in my mouth. You seem to be under the assumption that the Giants shouldn't even be trying to compete with the Vikings to trade up because of the cost. I'm saying that we don't even know what the cost is or how hard the Giants are trying.
And please spare me the "can't accept reality" bullshit. I've been saying for months I don't think the Giants will get a QB this and that a trade down might be in there best interest. It's almost like sometimes you're talking yourself down when you're posting.
There is nowhere on this site where I've said the Giants should not look into trading up.
We know they are looking to trade up.
However, there is a red line you can't cross or there will be nothing to build around the QB. You can't give up #6, our #1 in 2025, #1 in 2026 for example. For McCarthy? That's just insane.
You've emotionally reacted to every piece of news that casts doubt on the possibility of getting one of the four top guys in the draft. And you're still doing it.
Again, the Giants may be able to trade up. But there is a good chance they will be out-bid. It's not a matter of not trying.
Part is that I like the player, but the bigger part is that if he's an option at 6 that protects the Giants from either having to trade up or in the event they shit at 6 and the other 4 are drafted.
If this is a 5 QB draft it changes the calculus enormously in the Giants' favor. And the case for a 5 QB draft is that there are good arguments for Maye and McCarthy not being clearly better than Penix.
Sit tight at 6 and take the best QB on your board. Maybe it's Maye, maybe McCarthy, maybe Penix. The point is they're close together. So sit tight and don't fall in full bloom love.
There is nowhere on this site where I've said the Giants should not look into trading up.
We know they are looking to trade up.
However, there is a red line you can't cross or there will be nothing to build around the QB. You can't give up #6, our #1 in 2025, #1 in 2026 for example. For McCarthy? That's just insane.
You've emotionally reacted to every piece of news that casts doubt on the possibility of getting one of the four top guys in the draft. And you're still doing it.
Again, the Giants may be able to trade up. But there is a good chance they will be out-bid. It's not a matter of not trying.
There is only one of us being emotional here and it isn't me. I think at this point we agree that the Giants should look to trade up, we disagree on what it will cost or how much they should give up.
Again, for the tenth time, I DON'T THINK THE GIANTS WILL TRADE UP. So, the notion that I'm disappointed every time a piece of news casts doubt on the possibility is silly because I don't expect it to happen to begin with.
to trade up with AZ, and the top 3 QB’s go 1-3, if I were the AZ GM, I would think about just drafting McCarthy. Tell the giants you are willing to deal him for a top WR and picks. But wait and see how the draft falls until 11. If they like someone at 11, they trade with Minneapolis. If they would rather have who the giants drafted, they trade with them.
to trade up with AZ, and the top 3 QB’s go 1-3, if I were the AZ GM, I would think about just drafting McCarthy. Tell the giants you are willing to deal him for a top WR and picks. But wait and see how the draft falls until 11. If they like someone at 11, they trade with Minneapolis. If they would rather have who the giants drafted, they trade with them.
I think someone posted recently that they've changed the rules where you can't draft a guy and then trade him anymore.
Then they need to land Nix or Penix . At 6 or trade down or trade up from rd 1
This is the draft to shoot your shot at QB.
This is the list of QBs available when Giants drafted last 5 years
Daniel Jones
Dwayne Haskins
Tua
Justin Herbert
Mac Jones
Justin Fields
Kenny Pickett
Will Levis
Thats 5 years worth of 1st rd QBs . You cant just count on the future getting 1. Nor can anyone discount that Penix and/or Nix may be better than the other 4
am sure the Giants have looked into and tried to trade up, and they may still be able to do so before or during the draft. But it is becoming increasingly likely IMO that they will not be able to do so, either because the teams above them don't want to trade with anyone, someone outbids them, or they aren't willing to offer what the other team wants.
RE: Assuming both the Vikings and Giants are trying
to trade up with AZ, and the top 3 QB’s go 1-3, if I were the AZ GM, I would think about just drafting McCarthy. Tell the giants you are willing to deal him for a top WR and picks. But wait and see how the draft falls until 11. If they like someone at 11, they trade with Minneapolis. If they would rather have who the giants drafted, they trade with them.
Or, teams tell AZ to eff off and they are stuck with an extra 1st round QB.
They won't draft the QB unless time is close and the deal isn't complete with the team they are dealing with - ala 2004 and Eli..
the difference between 2022 and 2023 is just weird.
Daboll went from legit Coach of the Year to a guy who made odd decisions in training camp and the regular season. Schoen went from a guy who we all felt good about to a guy who re-signed Daniel Jones to $160 million.
Now we have 11 new coaches, including a new DC and STC...massive changes.
2024 is going to be very interesting. Do we get back on track as an overachieving team? Or are we going to be yelling on game threads about "WTF is Daboll doing?"
I don't think it's that weird. It's an emotional game. They came into the season with expectations. They were moving the ball and all of the sudden they get a penalty and like that --everything imaginable went wrong against them.
I don't think people realize the impact the way that played out had on the team. They were shell shocked and took them a long time to recover. I've thought this for a while, but have held back in brining it up because you can't have a logical conversation anymore with all of the Jones talk or Jones verses TT or DeVito, but the team, not just the QB, was in a massive funk, and it took them a while to get out of it.
At the end of the year the team started to play better and really looked like they did in 2022. We beat Philly and you would think there would be SOME enthusiasm about it, but there is one. Why? Because Philly was a mess at the time.
Well guess what? The Giants early on were in just as much as a state as Philly was. It happens in the league. But nobody seems to see that. The team sucks, the sky is falling, Jones was the worse signing ever and we won't win another game unless some other QB is in there. Is that all really so? 2022 was all a mirage and yet everything (bad stuff only) from 2023 is the reality?
I don't think so.
But impossible to discuss that with anyone.
Cannot just draft Penix at 6… if the value on their boards don’t line
up. That’s a trade down scenario or just grab your WR1 at 6 and then trade back into the 1st round. Teams setup their boards for a reason and you simply cannot pick a player when the value does NOT line up with your pick. That’s how you reach for players and have bad drafts.
are raw because everyone wants a QB. We just disagree on how and when to try and get one, and who it should be. The good news is that a little more than a week from now we'll have at least a partial or maybe a complete answer.
Part is that I like the player, but the bigger part is that if he's an option at 6 that protects the Giants from either having to trade up or in the event they shit at 6 and the other 4 are drafted.
If this is a 5 QB draft it changes the calculus enormously in the Giants' favor. And the case for a 5 QB draft is that there are good arguments for Maye and McCarthy not being clearly better than Penix.
Sit tight at 6 and take the best QB on your board. Maybe it's Maye, maybe McCarthy, maybe Penix. The point is they're close together. So sit tight and don't fall in full bloom love.
other than the medical the concern for me is he doesn't run at all and that's been a big foundational piece to dabolls offenses. with allen, with jones, with cutlets when we had the brief glimmer that maybe he was purdy.
running for yardage is key, as is the threat of run. that would be a massive structural deviation from what daboll has succeeded with - and possibly one that his offense cant overcome. josh allen is an excellent passer and an excellent runner and he needed both to go toe to toe with mahomes. would he have any chance without the running?
thats why i think JJM and Drake are their guys, and right now gun to head i think they will get 1 of them.
i think the only way they dont is if MIN comes up with a massive godfather offer for 4 or 5 - i just also think unfortunately that is close to a 50/50 proposition.
the giants advantage over minnesota right now is that they have more than 1 path to getting a QB and minnesota only has 1 (a massive trade up).
ARI could love MHJ.
LAC could love Alt or Nabers.
either team could want those players and prefer to take fewer extra picks from NYG for #6.
im actually getting less worried about ARI and more worried about LAC. I think ARI has to feel a little burned about their 3 pick slide last year because they still need an edge rusher and even though they got an ok OL, they gave up the DROY for what turned out to be the 27th pick this year.
I think harbough on the other hand is going to want as many picks as possible and then i think he is going to use them on a ton of his UM guys.
the difference between 2022 and 2023 is just weird.
Daboll went from legit Coach of the Year to a guy who made odd decisions in training camp and the regular season. Schoen went from a guy who we all felt good about to a guy who re-signed Daniel Jones to $160 million.
Now we have 11 new coaches, including a new DC and STC...massive changes.
2024 is going to be very interesting. Do we get back on track as an overachieving team? Or are we going to be yelling on game threads about "WTF is Daboll doing?"
I don't think it's that weird. It's an emotional game. They came into the season with expectations. They were moving the ball and all of the sudden they get a penalty and like that --everything imaginable went wrong against them.
I don't think people realize the impact the way that played out had on the team. They were shell shocked and took them a long time to recover. I've thought this for a while, but have held back in brining it up because you can't have a logical conversation anymore with all of the Jones talk or Jones verses TT or DeVito, but the team, not just the QB, was in a massive funk, and it took them a while to get out of it.
At the end of the year the team started to play better and really looked like they did in 2022. We beat Philly and you would think there would be SOME enthusiasm about it, but there is one. Why? Because Philly was a mess at the time.
Well guess what? The Giants early on were in just as much as a state as Philly was. It happens in the league. But nobody seems to see that. The team sucks, the sky is falling, Jones was the worse signing ever and we won't win another game unless some other QB is in there. Is that all really so? 2022 was all a mirage and yet everything (bad stuff only) from 2023 is the reality?
I don't think so.
But impossible to discuss that with anyone.
+1 a lot of emotion and less football talk indeed
That is not at all an argument that we should stick with Jones
But I can relate to my own experiences as an athlete and it is clear to me that the team early on was just in a very bad state. I don't put as much stock into those results as everyone else. People write off the good things they did in 2022, weak schedule, regression to the mean, etc. Well 2023 with injuries' brutal early schedule and frankly a team was out of sorts, had a lot of those same things in reverse. 2022 was no more the reality than 2022.
This is why I have more confidence in where we are than most.
RE: That is not at all an argument that we should stick with Jones
But I can relate to my own experiences as an athlete and it is clear to me that the team early on was just in a very bad state. I don't put as much stock into those results as everyone else. People write off the good things they did in 2022, weak schedule, regression to the mean, etc. Well 2023 with injuries' brutal early schedule and frankly a team was out of sorts, had a lot of those same things in reverse. 2022 was no more the reality than 2022.
This is why I have more confidence in where we are than most.
I agree that sometimes a team just hits a really rough patch early and spends the entire season trying to recover like the Giants last season. Some of that is on the coach, some of it is just the nature of sports.
Because of that, the range of scenarios next year is pretty wide. I could see anything from a 3 win team to a 9 win team.
RE: what did anyone think of houston's skill players this time last year?
singletary ended up being their best back bc pierce didnt fit new regime.
nico collins prior high in yards was 400.
dalton schultz was the most accomplished player on their offense entering the season with a rookie QB.
that is the NFL. hitting on a Tank Dell day 2 and having a guy like Collins break out in year 3 are the types of things that propel teams every year.
im not saying or predicting this NYG regime will do that, just that the opportunity is entirely there for them if they have gotten prior picks right and get more right next week - which is literally their jobs. if they are good at their jobs this team will take a big step forward in year 3.
if they dont it is the start of a rebuild but it will probably be somebody else's next year.
Houston didn’t trade up to get a QB. They hit on the QB, traded up for the best pass rusher and hit on the 2nd round WR. They got 3 plus starters. We had picks 5 & 7 and got Thibs who has been average and Neal then in the 2nd we got a promising WR who has been injured. You need to hit home runs in the top 10.
The point is, if we trade up for a QB there is no Tank Dell and no 1st rounder next year most likely. Plus regardless, we are on the hook for $47 mil for DJ this season. Him or a rookie with the skill positions we have will have us back in the top 5. Do you really think any of these QBs are better than a potential stud WR this year and a 1st next year? Just like FA there has to be a walk away price, next years 1st for me is the walk away price.
RE: That is not at all an argument that we should stick with Jones
But I can relate to my own experiences as an athlete and it is clear to me that the team early on was just in a very bad state. I don't put as much stock into those results as everyone else. People write off the good things they did in 2022, weak schedule, regression to the mean, etc. Well 2023 with injuries' brutal early schedule and frankly a team was out of sorts, had a lot of those same things in reverse. 2022 was no more the reality than 2022.
This is why I have more confidence in where we are than most.
It was a shitshow from the start. What Daboll and particularly Bobby Johnson were doing with that OL was mind-boggling. They were experimenting in real football games. Where’s your swing tackle? Peart or Philips? Why is Josh Ezeudu playing LT?!
Why was Andrew Thomas kept in the game?! When he was clearly hobbled?!
Awful coaching decisions across the board. Too much to confidence in green players who hadn’t played much at all.
Carousel at guard/center during training camp was nonsense.
This is game of poker . Nobody knows who Joe wants. He is playing a game of poker hoping the guy he wants falls to him and never gave up any of his assets
is arguing what Dave did on his podcast with me. If you mortgage both drafts for one player on a bad team an no way to improve the roster, the QB won't matter.
...And if you don't have a QB, the rest of the roster won't matter (unless you're happy winning 7 or 8 games every year with no chance of being a true contender).
I'm not sure how the "build the rest of the roster first" crowd can assume that they'll just easily pluck a franchise QB out of the draft whenever the team deems it's ready for one.
And even if you did, you still wouldn't know if you got what Schoen was really thinking correct. Further, even if you were able to piece it all together and Schoen couldn't execute it then you aren't going to hear from him that his Plan A failed and then the rumor-mill will just run amok further as to what his real intent was.
This isn't to suggest thinking through and posting about all these rumors and he said/she said stuff isn't enjoyable for some. For a bottom-feeder franchise over the past decade, the offseason is one of the only things we have as fans to really enjoy. But I have never seen such a set of variables, permutations, and guessing games being argued in all my years. Some of you post like you need some sleep though.
I am not a fan of drafting McCarthy. And I am wholeheartedly concerned his hype (which has reached all-time silly levels) and the Giants desperation to solve for QB will result in Schoen picking him at #6 or even worse, panicking and spending more than just the #6 pick to get him. But I am also fine being wrong, and if he becomes a NY Giant and a star QB then fantastic...and let's go!
Let's just hope Schoen can think through this process better than his moron predecessor, how he himself handled the DJ contract decision and, quite frankly, all of us.
RE: RE: what did anyone think of houston's skill players this time last year?
singletary ended up being their best back bc pierce didnt fit new regime.
nico collins prior high in yards was 400.
dalton schultz was the most accomplished player on their offense entering the season with a rookie QB.
that is the NFL. hitting on a Tank Dell day 2 and having a guy like Collins break out in year 3 are the types of things that propel teams every year.
im not saying or predicting this NYG regime will do that, just that the opportunity is entirely there for them if they have gotten prior picks right and get more right next week - which is literally their jobs. if they are good at their jobs this team will take a big step forward in year 3.
if they dont it is the start of a rebuild but it will probably be somebody else's next year.
Houston didn’t trade up to get a QB. They hit on the QB, traded up for the best pass rusher and hit on the 2nd round WR. They got 3 plus starters. We had picks 5 & 7 and got Thibs who has been average and Neal then in the 2nd we got a promising WR who has been injured. You need to hit home runs in the top 10.
The point is, if we trade up for a QB there is no Tank Dell and no 1st rounder next year most likely. Plus regardless, we are on the hook for $47 mil for DJ this season. Him or a rookie with the skill positions we have will have us back in the top 5. Do you really think any of these QBs are better than a potential stud WR this year and a 1st next year? Just like FA there has to be a walk away price, next years 1st for me is the walk away price.
Quote:
the Texans' 2024 first-rounder in a draft-day trade in 2023. Arizona handed the No. 3 pick to Houston to take edge rusher Will Anderson Jr., while the Cardinals added the Nos. 12 and 33 picks along with a third-rounder.
Tank Dell was rd 3 pick 69. They did trade their 2nd. You're right, we need to start getting plus starters from the draft. You're other points aren't relevant though.
RE: That is not at all an argument that we should stick with Jones
But I can relate to my own experiences as an athlete and it is clear to me that the team early on was just in a very bad state. I don't put as much stock into those results as everyone else. People write off the good things they did in 2022, weak schedule, regression to the mean, etc. Well 2023 with injuries' brutal early schedule and frankly a team was out of sorts, had a lot of those same things in reverse. 2022 was no more the reality than 2022.
This is why I have more confidence in where we are than most.
I'm more confident where we are than most too and it makes me feel like getting the right qb when we are within reach is crucial this year. Next year we will pick 10-15 or later I bet. If it's not reasonably possible, then so be it, but we need to do everything we reasonably can to get a QB in this draft.
... To build the roster first.
The point is simply not to mortgage long-term future for a shot at one player.
For some maybe, but many here have said build the roster first regardless of whether it would involve a trade up or not. The reason being, no rookie QB could succeed with the current roster. I think there is an extremely small number of posters here (if any) that expect a rookie QB to instantly turn the team into a winner. It's for the long term future.
But that point aside, should we be content to just sit around hoping at some point that a franchise QB falls in our lap? Sometimes you have to take a shot and make a bold move. If you miss, you reload and take another shot (and don't wait 6 years to do so).
Hughes has no information on the Giants. And this again, is very interesting that he’s putting this out there about McCarthy before the weekend.
He said it's from the GM of another team. Peppers did hint to us liking JJM, but that was back at the combine. If the Giants take JJM, boy getyo popcorn ready cuz BBI will be entertaining as all hell.
Why is "another (unnamed) GM" considered a reliable source at all?
First, why would the Giants be telling other teams who they love? They should only be talking about what draft positions they would like to acquire via trades. Why reveal to the competition the players they covet?
Second, if the "other GM" is hearing it from players or agents, I'm sure the Giants are telling lots of those that they love them, so that would seem pretty meaningless.
Third, why wouldn't we assume an ulterior motive from another team's GM telling a reporter what they supposedly heard about the Giants? For instance, if Hughes revealed that this "other GM" was the GM of the Eagles or Cowboys, now what do you think of this information?
And even if it is all true, and Schoen shared info with another team's GM in confidence, then that's pretty stupid of that GM to jeopardize a business relationship by blabbing to reporters.
I cannot wait until this is over one way or the other.
But I can relate to my own experiences as an athlete and it is clear to me that the team early on was just in a very bad state. I don't put as much stock into those results as everyone else. People write off the good things they did in 2022, weak schedule, regression to the mean, etc. Well 2023 with injuries' brutal early schedule and frankly a team was out of sorts, had a lot of those same things in reverse. 2022 was no more the reality than 2022.
This is why I have more confidence in where we are than most.
It was a shitshow from the start. What Daboll and particularly Bobby Johnson were doing with that OL was mind-boggling. They were experimenting in real football games. Where’s your swing tackle? Peart or Philips? Why is Josh Ezeudu playing LT?!
Why was Andrew Thomas kept in the game?! When he was clearly hobbled?!
Awful coaching decisions across the board. Too much to confidence in green players who hadn’t played much at all.
Carousel at guard/center during training camp was nonsense.
Things unraveled at the end of that first drive. Again, it's really no different than Philly at the end of the year, except we got into a funk to start the year, they finished in one. NYG was competing at the end of the year. You wouldn't know it from the fans, but it's true. They were a competitive team to end the season.
Part is that I like the player, but the bigger part is that if he's an option at 6 that protects the Giants from either having to trade up or in the event they shit at 6 and the other 4 are drafted.
If this is a 5 QB draft it changes the calculus enormously in the Giants' favor. And the case for a 5 QB draft is that there are good arguments for Maye and McCarthy not being clearly better than Penix.
Sit tight at 6 and take the best QB on your board. Maybe it's Maye, maybe McCarthy, maybe Penix. The point is they're close together. So sit tight and don't fall in full bloom love.
Schoen May as well quit if he’s considering Penix as 6. Penix is nowhere near a top 6 player in this draft and I would feel really terrible about the Giants front office if they did that. You don’t pass up on a WR1 for a mid QB who’s already old for a rookie.
RE: Injuries, inflated egos, bad choices, tougher schedule
IMO your entire post is nothing more than extreme excuse making and prayer while ignoring probability.. You’re right on 1 thing - it’s not “rocket science.”
1--- You make the Andre Thomas excuse. So, just ONE OL goes down and the entire OL collapses into being a historically bad OL and that suggests that we would have been otherwise okay? If all it took was ONE OL to go down for a total collapse then you don’t think luck had anything to do with 2022?
2—In regard to the current OL- right now we can count on Thomas. Can you say for sure that all 4 of the current OL will paly well (i.e. expect all 4 to?)? And don’t you expect that probably one of them is going to have some injury concerns? And yet you are confident of the backup(s)?
3--- You have to realize there is a reason why teams like the Giants collapse as they did. They had a low floor. That’s part of the game why some teams can be shit while good teams can still win despite going through season struggles. Many teams have superstars or depth to overcome collapses. The Giants didn’t/don’t.
4--- And your point of Waller? Well, who else do they have this year or last at TE that is any good anyway?
5--- In regard to Wink, you want to give credit for The Giants Defense playing well in 2nd half of season, correct? So, Wink had nothing to do with that? Instead you aren’t talking “football,” you are talking “mini-coup?” I mean c’mon how much more extreme are you trying to exaggerate?
6---And you’re actually trying to minimize the loss of Barkley yet you would bring up/and/or imply 2022-2023 as a reference point that it could happen again? Huh??????????? Barkley is one of the best RB’s in the NFL and still has a greater projected impact than any of the current Giant WR’s. That’s now gone. That puts added reliance on a team that doesn’t have a #1 WR. How is that “better?”
7--- In 2022 Daniel Jones was a pretty good QB. I’ll say again—in 2022-2023 season Daniel Jones was a pretty good QB. But as a member on here that you are, you must’ve read that he has had to change his throwing motion, correct? And as a football fan you must recognize that his best strength was his wheels in which is now highly suspect. And as a football fan you must recognize that he is extremely injury prone.
Therefore you have to realize that the probability that he will revert back to 2022-2023 form is very low. You also have to realize that the RB play of 2022-2023 will not be equaled. So, if we recognize these two very important factors, then why would any of you try to mention the 2022-2023 season’s record has any relevancy (when even the OL is in the air, in which other than Thomas, you don’t know what they are)? We’re talking “probabilities” here.
Yet you seem to want to hold onto “anything could happen . . . “ That’s true to a degree but if you want to hold onto this and ignore probabilities, then you might as well kill this site by saying things like The Giants could draft the next Tom Brady after rd 2 because drafting an extremely great QB late- it happened before.”
the difference between 2022 and 2023 is just weird.
Daboll went from legit Coach of the Year to a guy who made odd decisions in training camp and the regular season. Schoen went from a guy who we all felt good about to a guy who re-signed Daniel Jones to $160 million.
Now we have 11 new coaches, including a new DC and STC...massive changes.
2024 is going to be very interesting. Do we get back on track as an overachieving team? Or are we going to be yelling on game threads about "WTF is Daboll doing?"
I don't think it's that weird. It's an emotional game. They came into the season with expectations. They were moving the ball and all of the sudden they get a penalty and like that --everything imaginable went wrong against them.
I don't think people realize the impact the way that played out had on the team. They were shell shocked and took them a long time to recover. I've thought this for a while, but have held back in brining it up because you can't have a logical conversation anymore with all of the Jones talk or Jones verses TT or DeVito, but the team, not just the QB, was in a massive funk, and it took them a while to get out of it.
At the end of the year the team started to play better and really looked like they did in 2022. We beat Philly and you would think there would be SOME enthusiasm about it, but there is one. Why? Because Philly was a mess at the time.
Well guess what? The Giants early on were in just as much as a state as Philly was. It happens in the league. But nobody seems to see that. The team sucks, the sky is falling, Jones was the worse signing ever and we won't win another game unless some other QB is in there. Is that all really so? 2022 was all a mirage and yet everything (bad stuff only) from 2023 is the reality?
I don't think so.
But impossible to discuss that with anyone.
I generally agree with all your posts—before the last few months. Though we say “get the QB if Giants have the conviction . . “ we agree there but maybe the tone of posts have me yet disagreeing with what you’re saying in a certain manner.
IMO your post is nothing more than excuse making using the word “funk” instead of calling it like it is. In all of sports, that’s the main difference between awful, bad, average, good, and great is flor/ceiling and consistency. The better teams go into less “funks” and their “funks” are of superior quality. I.E. they are more consistent indoing teh right things.
For example, The Bills were in a funk when they played and beat the Giants in a very tight game. The Giant fan might try to rationalize the loss as a game under the belief that The Giants should have won and they aren’t that bad. While The Bill fan will recognize teh game for what it is; that The Bills were “in a funk” and still won. That’s the difference that The Bills can win quite a bit because their floor is pretty high while The Giants floor is taking 40-0 loss, and their celling to win when in a funk is extremely limited.
As Parcells had said to paraphrase “You are what your record says you are.” Rotten teams like The Giants will naturally go into more drastic and frequent funks because their floor is so low that your consistency of quality play will also result in such a low ceiling that you just aren't going to win much.
but my reality brain takes over. Trading up is an option but because of the team's less than average roster I believe we must not throw in next year's one. If Schoen does throw in the number one next year for a qb it is obvious that he better be correct. He has to be as close to hundred percent in his thinking. If not don't throw in the one next draft season.
I still feel that no matter what the team does stay pat, move up or trade down we probably are picking in the top ten next year. I'm obsessing with that thought and it's almost visceral. Now I'm sure we all want the team to be a viable playoff team as soon as possible. I hate to say this but I think we are a ways off before we reach that goal.
I’d be willing to bet that both Daboll and Schoen believe that at their best, Daniel Jones and JJ McCarthy are basically the same guy. In fact, they’ve seen Jones play really well at times so they might even say he’s got a higher ceiling.
Which is why it would be beyond dumb to draft him at 6 overall.
Take the guy who has all pro potential if you can.
This is a red line.
It takes two to tango. And the other team may prefer the package that the Vikings or Broncos are offering better. The Giants are not going to give up "whatever it takes" to take the 4th QB in the draft.
And the whole 4th ranked QB thing is bull. WE have no idea how the Giants ranked these guys.
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singletary ended up being their best back bc pierce didnt fit new regime.
nico collins prior high in yards was 400.
dalton schultz was the most accomplished player on their offense entering the season with a rookie QB.
that is the NFL. hitting on a Tank Dell day 2 and having a guy like Collins break out in year 3 are the types of things that propel teams every year.
im not saying or predicting this NYG regime will do that, just that the opportunity is entirely there for them if they have gotten prior picks right and get more right next week - which is literally their jobs. if they are good at their jobs this team will take a big step forward in year 3.
if they dont it is the start of a rebuild but it will probably be somebody else's next year.
Eric, that’s more of an aberration than the norm. You can count on one hand how many times that’s happened over the past 30 years.
i am not counting on it happening merely pointing out that it happened, and that things like it happen every season. look at the coach of the year voting every season and you will find that many teams who have had similar happen each season.
that is exactly what happened with this regime and this team in 2022 when they entered the season with david sills, kenny golladay, sterling shepard with rookie bellinger at TE.
they won 9 games in 2022 with almost everything going their way.
if i told you andrew thomas would get hurt in week 1 and play more than half the year injured.
and jones regresses + he/tyrod would get hurt leaving them to start a UDFA for a month+.
and Wink would stage a mini-coup from midseason on.
and waller would get hurt as usual and not play all that great when healthy.
and barkley would miss time/regress in performance behind worse ol.
how many games would you expect to revise that 9 wins down to? my best guess is less than the 6 they won.
it is amazing to me that people dont anticipate better how these pendulum's swing in the NFL. the giants could suck again next year or they be this years texans with a great draft and good injury luck. the swings happen precisely because more than 2/3s of the league is at the same roster talent level. a handful are a lot better and a handful are a lot worse but thats it.
I do think we will be on the over side of 6.5 games, but probably not by much. I'd imagine we pick somewhere between 10-15 next year, which will be a tough spot for maneuvering to get a QB. That makes me feel like if they can get a guy they like this year then they should do it. Of course, there is a limit to what we should trade. AZ will either prefer a king's ransom or prefer a moderate package while getting Nabers/MHJ.
There is a really, really good chance the Giants like Williams, Daniels, and Maye more than McCarthy.
40-0.
Huh? What does that have to do with anything I wrote?
I said outside of injuries, they were completely unprepared from lack of playing time in the preseason. Daboll effed up by not playing them at all. Wink said it would take 4-5 weeks for the defense to hit stride. That’s unacceptable. They should’ve been playing more in the preseason.
The 40-0 bashing proves my point.
The Giants are trying to trade up. Period.
They may or may not be able to win a bidding competition.
(I knew we were going to have fans who can't accept that reality, and you're obviously one of them).
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Opening night. You're at home against your division rival. Everyone is fired up.
40-0.
Huh? What does that have to do with anything I wrote?
I said outside of injuries, they were completely unprepared from lack of playing time in the preseason. Daboll effed up by not playing them at all. Wink said it would take 4-5 weeks for the defense to hit stride. That’s unacceptable. They should’ve been playing more in the preseason.
The 40-0 bashing proves my point.
I'm not arguing with you. I'm supporting what you said.
The Giants are trying to trade up. Period.
They may or may not be able to win a bidding competition.
(I knew we were going to have fans who can't accept that reality, and you're obviously one of them).
Eric, you're putting words in my mouth. You seem to be under the assumption that the Giants shouldn't even be trying to compete with the Vikings to trade up because of the cost. I'm saying that we don't even know what the cost is or how hard the Giants are trying.
And please spare me the "can't accept reality" bullshit. I've been saying for months I don't think the Giants will get a QB this and that a trade down might be in there best interest. It's almost like sometimes you're talking yourself down when you're posting.
We know they are looking to trade up.
However, there is a red line you can't cross or there will be nothing to build around the QB. You can't give up #6, our #1 in 2025, #1 in 2026 for example. For McCarthy? That's just insane.
You've emotionally reacted to every piece of news that casts doubt on the possibility of getting one of the four top guys in the draft. And you're still doing it.
Again, the Giants may be able to trade up. But there is a good chance they will be out-bid. It's not a matter of not trying.
If this is a 5 QB draft it changes the calculus enormously in the Giants' favor. And the case for a 5 QB draft is that there are good arguments for Maye and McCarthy not being clearly better than Penix.
Sit tight at 6 and take the best QB on your board. Maybe it's Maye, maybe McCarthy, maybe Penix. The point is they're close together. So sit tight and don't fall in full bloom love.
We know they are looking to trade up.
However, there is a red line you can't cross or there will be nothing to build around the QB. You can't give up #6, our #1 in 2025, #1 in 2026 for example. For McCarthy? That's just insane.
You've emotionally reacted to every piece of news that casts doubt on the possibility of getting one of the four top guys in the draft. And you're still doing it.
Again, the Giants may be able to trade up. But there is a good chance they will be out-bid. It's not a matter of not trying.
There is only one of us being emotional here and it isn't me. I think at this point we agree that the Giants should look to trade up, we disagree on what it will cost or how much they should give up.
Again, for the tenth time, I DON'T THINK THE GIANTS WILL TRADE UP. So, the notion that I'm disappointed every time a piece of news casts doubt on the possibility is silly because I don't expect it to happen to begin with.
I think someone posted recently that they've changed the rules where you can't draft a guy and then trade him anymore.
You're right, I'll be nicer. Pinky swear.
Then they need to land Nix or Penix . At 6 or trade down or trade up from rd 1
This is the draft to shoot your shot at QB.
This is the list of QBs available when Giants drafted last 5 years
Daniel Jones
Dwayne Haskins
Tua
Justin Herbert
Mac Jones
Justin Fields
Kenny Pickett
Will Levis
Thats 5 years worth of 1st rd QBs . You cant just count on the future getting 1. Nor can anyone discount that Penix and/or Nix may be better than the other 4
Or, teams tell AZ to eff off and they are stuck with an extra 1st round QB.
They won't draft the QB unless time is close and the deal isn't complete with the team they are dealing with - ala 2004 and Eli..
Daboll went from legit Coach of the Year to a guy who made odd decisions in training camp and the regular season. Schoen went from a guy who we all felt good about to a guy who re-signed Daniel Jones to $160 million.
Now we have 11 new coaches, including a new DC and STC...massive changes.
2024 is going to be very interesting. Do we get back on track as an overachieving team? Or are we going to be yelling on game threads about "WTF is Daboll doing?"
I don't think it's that weird. It's an emotional game. They came into the season with expectations. They were moving the ball and all of the sudden they get a penalty and like that --everything imaginable went wrong against them.
I don't think people realize the impact the way that played out had on the team. They were shell shocked and took them a long time to recover. I've thought this for a while, but have held back in brining it up because you can't have a logical conversation anymore with all of the Jones talk or Jones verses TT or DeVito, but the team, not just the QB, was in a massive funk, and it took them a while to get out of it.
At the end of the year the team started to play better and really looked like they did in 2022. We beat Philly and you would think there would be SOME enthusiasm about it, but there is one. Why? Because Philly was a mess at the time.
Well guess what? The Giants early on were in just as much as a state as Philly was. It happens in the league. But nobody seems to see that. The team sucks, the sky is falling, Jones was the worse signing ever and we won't win another game unless some other QB is in there. Is that all really so? 2022 was all a mirage and yet everything (bad stuff only) from 2023 is the reality?
I don't think so.
But impossible to discuss that with anyone.
If this is a 5 QB draft it changes the calculus enormously in the Giants' favor. And the case for a 5 QB draft is that there are good arguments for Maye and McCarthy not being clearly better than Penix.
Sit tight at 6 and take the best QB on your board. Maybe it's Maye, maybe McCarthy, maybe Penix. The point is they're close together. So sit tight and don't fall in full bloom love.
other than the medical the concern for me is he doesn't run at all and that's been a big foundational piece to dabolls offenses. with allen, with jones, with cutlets when we had the brief glimmer that maybe he was purdy.
running for yardage is key, as is the threat of run. that would be a massive structural deviation from what daboll has succeeded with - and possibly one that his offense cant overcome. josh allen is an excellent passer and an excellent runner and he needed both to go toe to toe with mahomes. would he have any chance without the running?
thats why i think JJM and Drake are their guys, and right now gun to head i think they will get 1 of them.
i think the only way they dont is if MIN comes up with a massive godfather offer for 4 or 5 - i just also think unfortunately that is close to a 50/50 proposition.
the giants advantage over minnesota right now is that they have more than 1 path to getting a QB and minnesota only has 1 (a massive trade up).
ARI could love MHJ.
LAC could love Alt or Nabers.
either team could want those players and prefer to take fewer extra picks from NYG for #6.
im actually getting less worried about ARI and more worried about LAC. I think ARI has to feel a little burned about their 3 pick slide last year because they still need an edge rusher and even though they got an ok OL, they gave up the DROY for what turned out to be the 27th pick this year.
I think harbough on the other hand is going to want as many picks as possible and then i think he is going to use them on a ton of his UM guys.
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the difference between 2022 and 2023 is just weird.
Daboll went from legit Coach of the Year to a guy who made odd decisions in training camp and the regular season. Schoen went from a guy who we all felt good about to a guy who re-signed Daniel Jones to $160 million.
Now we have 11 new coaches, including a new DC and STC...massive changes.
2024 is going to be very interesting. Do we get back on track as an overachieving team? Or are we going to be yelling on game threads about "WTF is Daboll doing?"
I don't think it's that weird. It's an emotional game. They came into the season with expectations. They were moving the ball and all of the sudden they get a penalty and like that --everything imaginable went wrong against them.
I don't think people realize the impact the way that played out had on the team. They were shell shocked and took them a long time to recover. I've thought this for a while, but have held back in brining it up because you can't have a logical conversation anymore with all of the Jones talk or Jones verses TT or DeVito, but the team, not just the QB, was in a massive funk, and it took them a while to get out of it.
At the end of the year the team started to play better and really looked like they did in 2022. We beat Philly and you would think there would be SOME enthusiasm about it, but there is one. Why? Because Philly was a mess at the time.
Well guess what? The Giants early on were in just as much as a state as Philly was. It happens in the league. But nobody seems to see that. The team sucks, the sky is falling, Jones was the worse signing ever and we won't win another game unless some other QB is in there. Is that all really so? 2022 was all a mirage and yet everything (bad stuff only) from 2023 is the reality?
I don't think so.
But impossible to discuss that with anyone.
+1 a lot of emotion and less football talk indeed
But I can relate to my own experiences as an athlete and it is clear to me that the team early on was just in a very bad state. I don't put as much stock into those results as everyone else. People write off the good things they did in 2022, weak schedule, regression to the mean, etc. Well 2023 with injuries' brutal early schedule and frankly a team was out of sorts, had a lot of those same things in reverse. 2022 was no more the reality than 2022.
This is why I have more confidence in where we are than most.
But I can relate to my own experiences as an athlete and it is clear to me that the team early on was just in a very bad state. I don't put as much stock into those results as everyone else. People write off the good things they did in 2022, weak schedule, regression to the mean, etc. Well 2023 with injuries' brutal early schedule and frankly a team was out of sorts, had a lot of those same things in reverse. 2022 was no more the reality than 2022.
This is why I have more confidence in where we are than most.
I agree that sometimes a team just hits a really rough patch early and spends the entire season trying to recover like the Giants last season. Some of that is on the coach, some of it is just the nature of sports.
Because of that, the range of scenarios next year is pretty wide. I could see anything from a 3 win team to a 9 win team.
nico collins prior high in yards was 400.
dalton schultz was the most accomplished player on their offense entering the season with a rookie QB.
that is the NFL. hitting on a Tank Dell day 2 and having a guy like Collins break out in year 3 are the types of things that propel teams every year.
im not saying or predicting this NYG regime will do that, just that the opportunity is entirely there for them if they have gotten prior picks right and get more right next week - which is literally their jobs. if they are good at their jobs this team will take a big step forward in year 3.
if they dont it is the start of a rebuild but it will probably be somebody else's next year.
Houston didn’t trade up to get a QB. They hit on the QB, traded up for the best pass rusher and hit on the 2nd round WR. They got 3 plus starters. We had picks 5 & 7 and got Thibs who has been average and Neal then in the 2nd we got a promising WR who has been injured. You need to hit home runs in the top 10.
The point is, if we trade up for a QB there is no Tank Dell and no 1st rounder next year most likely. Plus regardless, we are on the hook for $47 mil for DJ this season. Him or a rookie with the skill positions we have will have us back in the top 5. Do you really think any of these QBs are better than a potential stud WR this year and a 1st next year? Just like FA there has to be a walk away price, next years 1st for me is the walk away price.
But I can relate to my own experiences as an athlete and it is clear to me that the team early on was just in a very bad state. I don't put as much stock into those results as everyone else. People write off the good things they did in 2022, weak schedule, regression to the mean, etc. Well 2023 with injuries' brutal early schedule and frankly a team was out of sorts, had a lot of those same things in reverse. 2022 was no more the reality than 2022.
This is why I have more confidence in where we are than most.
It was a shitshow from the start. What Daboll and particularly Bobby Johnson were doing with that OL was mind-boggling. They were experimenting in real football games. Where’s your swing tackle? Peart or Philips? Why is Josh Ezeudu playing LT?!
Why was Andrew Thomas kept in the game?! When he was clearly hobbled?!
Awful coaching decisions across the board. Too much to confidence in green players who hadn’t played much at all.
Carousel at guard/center during training camp was nonsense.
id do a 2025 first if they were bringing back a 2025 day 2 pick though and keeping their 2024 day 2 picks in tact.
again the only way i think they lose control of the QB situation is if MIN puts a crazy package on the table for QB4.
I think NE is also in a similar situation where they maybe only like 2 of the QBs for themselves and are hoping the right one falls to them.
...And if you don't have a QB, the rest of the roster won't matter (unless you're happy winning 7 or 8 games every year with no chance of being a true contender).
I'm not sure how the "build the rest of the roster first" crowd can assume that they'll just easily pluck a franchise QB out of the draft whenever the team deems it's ready for one.
The point is simply not to mortgage long-term future for a shot at one player.
This isn't to suggest thinking through and posting about all these rumors and he said/she said stuff isn't enjoyable for some. For a bottom-feeder franchise over the past decade, the offseason is one of the only things we have as fans to really enjoy. But I have never seen such a set of variables, permutations, and guessing games being argued in all my years. Some of you post like you need some sleep though.
I am not a fan of drafting McCarthy. And I am wholeheartedly concerned his hype (which has reached all-time silly levels) and the Giants desperation to solve for QB will result in Schoen picking him at #6 or even worse, panicking and spending more than just the #6 pick to get him. But I am also fine being wrong, and if he becomes a NY Giant and a star QB then fantastic...and let's go!
Let's just hope Schoen can think through this process better than his moron predecessor, how he himself handled the DJ contract decision and, quite frankly, all of us.
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singletary ended up being their best back bc pierce didnt fit new regime.
nico collins prior high in yards was 400.
dalton schultz was the most accomplished player on their offense entering the season with a rookie QB.
that is the NFL. hitting on a Tank Dell day 2 and having a guy like Collins break out in year 3 are the types of things that propel teams every year.
im not saying or predicting this NYG regime will do that, just that the opportunity is entirely there for them if they have gotten prior picks right and get more right next week - which is literally their jobs. if they are good at their jobs this team will take a big step forward in year 3.
if they dont it is the start of a rebuild but it will probably be somebody else's next year.
Houston didn’t trade up to get a QB. They hit on the QB, traded up for the best pass rusher and hit on the 2nd round WR. They got 3 plus starters. We had picks 5 & 7 and got Thibs who has been average and Neal then in the 2nd we got a promising WR who has been injured. You need to hit home runs in the top 10.
The point is, if we trade up for a QB there is no Tank Dell and no 1st rounder next year most likely. Plus regardless, we are on the hook for $47 mil for DJ this season. Him or a rookie with the skill positions we have will have us back in the top 5. Do you really think any of these QBs are better than a potential stud WR this year and a 1st next year? Just like FA there has to be a walk away price, next years 1st for me is the walk away price.
Tank Dell was rd 3 pick 69. They did trade their 2nd. You're right, we need to start getting plus starters from the draft. You're other points aren't relevant though.
But I can relate to my own experiences as an athlete and it is clear to me that the team early on was just in a very bad state. I don't put as much stock into those results as everyone else. People write off the good things they did in 2022, weak schedule, regression to the mean, etc. Well 2023 with injuries' brutal early schedule and frankly a team was out of sorts, had a lot of those same things in reverse. 2022 was no more the reality than 2022.
This is why I have more confidence in where we are than most.
I'm more confident where we are than most too and it makes me feel like getting the right qb when we are within reach is crucial this year. Next year we will pick 10-15 or later I bet. If it's not reasonably possible, then so be it, but we need to do everything we reasonably can to get a QB in this draft.
The point is simply not to mortgage long-term future for a shot at one player.
For some maybe, but many here have said build the roster first regardless of whether it would involve a trade up or not. The reason being, no rookie QB could succeed with the current roster. I think there is an extremely small number of posters here (if any) that expect a rookie QB to instantly turn the team into a winner. It's for the long term future.
But that point aside, should we be content to just sit around hoping at some point that a franchise QB falls in our lap? Sometimes you have to take a shot and make a bold move. If you miss, you reload and take another shot (and don't wait 6 years to do so).
He said it's from the GM of another team. Peppers did hint to us liking JJM, but that was back at the combine. If the Giants take JJM, boy getyo popcorn ready cuz BBI will be entertaining as all hell.
First, why would the Giants be telling other teams who they love? They should only be talking about what draft positions they would like to acquire via trades. Why reveal to the competition the players they covet?
Second, if the "other GM" is hearing it from players or agents, I'm sure the Giants are telling lots of those that they love them, so that would seem pretty meaningless.
Third, why wouldn't we assume an ulterior motive from another team's GM telling a reporter what they supposedly heard about the Giants? For instance, if Hughes revealed that this "other GM" was the GM of the Eagles or Cowboys, now what do you think of this information?
And even if it is all true, and Schoen shared info with another team's GM in confidence, then that's pretty stupid of that GM to jeopardize a business relationship by blabbing to reporters.
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I was never a Jones fan, and am not now either.
But I can relate to my own experiences as an athlete and it is clear to me that the team early on was just in a very bad state. I don't put as much stock into those results as everyone else. People write off the good things they did in 2022, weak schedule, regression to the mean, etc. Well 2023 with injuries' brutal early schedule and frankly a team was out of sorts, had a lot of those same things in reverse. 2022 was no more the reality than 2022.
This is why I have more confidence in where we are than most.
It was a shitshow from the start. What Daboll and particularly Bobby Johnson were doing with that OL was mind-boggling. They were experimenting in real football games. Where’s your swing tackle? Peart or Philips? Why is Josh Ezeudu playing LT?!
Why was Andrew Thomas kept in the game?! When he was clearly hobbled?!
Awful coaching decisions across the board. Too much to confidence in green players who hadn’t played much at all.
Carousel at guard/center during training camp was nonsense.
Things unraveled at the end of that first drive. Again, it's really no different than Philly at the end of the year, except we got into a funk to start the year, they finished in one. NYG was competing at the end of the year. You wouldn't know it from the fans, but it's true. They were a competitive team to end the season.
If this is a 5 QB draft it changes the calculus enormously in the Giants' favor. And the case for a 5 QB draft is that there are good arguments for Maye and McCarthy not being clearly better than Penix.
Sit tight at 6 and take the best QB on your board. Maybe it's Maye, maybe McCarthy, maybe Penix. The point is they're close together. So sit tight and don't fall in full bloom love.
Schoen May as well quit if he’s considering Penix as 6. Penix is nowhere near a top 6 player in this draft and I would feel really terrible about the Giants front office if they did that. You don’t pass up on a WR1 for a mid QB who’s already old for a rookie.
IMO your entire post is nothing more than extreme excuse making and prayer while ignoring probability.. You’re right on 1 thing - it’s not “rocket science.”
1--- You make the Andre Thomas excuse. So, just ONE OL goes down and the entire OL collapses into being a historically bad OL and that suggests that we would have been otherwise okay? If all it took was ONE OL to go down for a total collapse then you don’t think luck had anything to do with 2022?
2—In regard to the current OL- right now we can count on Thomas. Can you say for sure that all 4 of the current OL will paly well (i.e. expect all 4 to?)? And don’t you expect that probably one of them is going to have some injury concerns? And yet you are confident of the backup(s)?
3--- You have to realize there is a reason why teams like the Giants collapse as they did. They had a low floor. That’s part of the game why some teams can be shit while good teams can still win despite going through season struggles. Many teams have superstars or depth to overcome collapses. The Giants didn’t/don’t.
4--- And your point of Waller? Well, who else do they have this year or last at TE that is any good anyway?
5--- In regard to Wink, you want to give credit for The Giants Defense playing well in 2nd half of season, correct? So, Wink had nothing to do with that? Instead you aren’t talking “football,” you are talking “mini-coup?” I mean c’mon how much more extreme are you trying to exaggerate?
6---And you’re actually trying to minimize the loss of Barkley yet you would bring up/and/or imply 2022-2023 as a reference point that it could happen again? Huh??????????? Barkley is one of the best RB’s in the NFL and still has a greater projected impact than any of the current Giant WR’s. That’s now gone. That puts added reliance on a team that doesn’t have a #1 WR. How is that “better?”
7--- In 2022 Daniel Jones was a pretty good QB. I’ll say again—in 2022-2023 season Daniel Jones was a pretty good QB. But as a member on here that you are, you must’ve read that he has had to change his throwing motion, correct? And as a football fan you must recognize that his best strength was his wheels in which is now highly suspect. And as a football fan you must recognize that he is extremely injury prone.
Therefore you have to realize that the probability that he will revert back to 2022-2023 form is very low. You also have to realize that the RB play of 2022-2023 will not be equaled. So, if we recognize these two very important factors, then why would any of you try to mention the 2022-2023 season’s record has any relevancy (when even the OL is in the air, in which other than Thomas, you don’t know what they are)? We’re talking “probabilities” here.
Yet you seem to want to hold onto “anything could happen . . . “ That’s true to a degree but if you want to hold onto this and ignore probabilities, then you might as well kill this site by saying things like The Giants could draft the next Tom Brady after rd 2 because drafting an extremely great QB late- it happened before.”
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the difference between 2022 and 2023 is just weird.
Daboll went from legit Coach of the Year to a guy who made odd decisions in training camp and the regular season. Schoen went from a guy who we all felt good about to a guy who re-signed Daniel Jones to $160 million.
Now we have 11 new coaches, including a new DC and STC...massive changes.
2024 is going to be very interesting. Do we get back on track as an overachieving team? Or are we going to be yelling on game threads about "WTF is Daboll doing?"
I don't think it's that weird. It's an emotional game. They came into the season with expectations. They were moving the ball and all of the sudden they get a penalty and like that --everything imaginable went wrong against them.
I don't think people realize the impact the way that played out had on the team. They were shell shocked and took them a long time to recover. I've thought this for a while, but have held back in brining it up because you can't have a logical conversation anymore with all of the Jones talk or Jones verses TT or DeVito, but the team, not just the QB, was in a massive funk, and it took them a while to get out of it.
At the end of the year the team started to play better and really looked like they did in 2022. We beat Philly and you would think there would be SOME enthusiasm about it, but there is one. Why? Because Philly was a mess at the time.
Well guess what? The Giants early on were in just as much as a state as Philly was. It happens in the league. But nobody seems to see that. The team sucks, the sky is falling, Jones was the worse signing ever and we won't win another game unless some other QB is in there. Is that all really so? 2022 was all a mirage and yet everything (bad stuff only) from 2023 is the reality?
I don't think so.
But impossible to discuss that with anyone.
I generally agree with all your posts—before the last few months. Though we say “get the QB if Giants have the conviction . . “ we agree there but maybe the tone of posts have me yet disagreeing with what you’re saying in a certain manner.
IMO your post is nothing more than excuse making using the word “funk” instead of calling it like it is. In all of sports, that’s the main difference between awful, bad, average, good, and great is flor/ceiling and consistency. The better teams go into less “funks” and their “funks” are of superior quality. I.E. they are more consistent indoing teh right things.
For example, The Bills were in a funk when they played and beat the Giants in a very tight game. The Giant fan might try to rationalize the loss as a game under the belief that The Giants should have won and they aren’t that bad. While The Bill fan will recognize teh game for what it is; that The Bills were “in a funk” and still won. That’s the difference that The Bills can win quite a bit because their floor is pretty high while The Giants floor is taking 40-0 loss, and their celling to win when in a funk is extremely limited.
As Parcells had said to paraphrase “You are what your record says you are.” Rotten teams like The Giants will naturally go into more drastic and frequent funks because their floor is so low that your consistency of quality play will also result in such a low ceiling that you just aren't going to win much.
I still feel that no matter what the team does stay pat, move up or trade down we probably are picking in the top ten next year. I'm obsessing with that thought and it's almost visceral. Now I'm sure we all want the team to be a viable playoff team as soon as possible. I hate to say this but I think we are a ways off before we reach that goal.
Which is why it would be beyond dumb to draft him at 6 overall.
Take the guy who has all pro potential if you can.