Neal, Eluemunor are far from locks to think they have a legit starting OL. I know everyone loves Eluemunor because he’s so pumped to be here and Bricillo coached him, but if he was that good and a lock to be a legit foundational piece he would’ve gotten a lot more money and there would’ve been a bidding war for him across the league since everyone needs a good OG/OT. OL is still a big need. Sy even said Alt isn’t out of the question at 6.
that people have here about how horrible we will be. You do realize the roster is actually better now than it was last year.
YES, I am comparing to the middle of the pack group for a reason. If you are counting on a top pick next year don't look at the 49ers, Eagles, Cowboys- look at all of the other MIDDLE of the road teams... We won games last year with fucking Tommy Devito at QB, Justin off the Couch PUGH at G and a whole bunch of who the hell are these guys playing a lot..
Health on the Oline alone could add 2 wins to our total.
My point isn't about us being good it is that some here are being dumb to think we will just have a top 10 pick next year!
You're oddly leaving out the fact that the Giants are in worse shape to start with than arguably 28 other teams.
Every year we go through. BBI'ers claiming the roster is better than it is.
this is wrong.
this regime is in year 3. most of the roster is their draft picks. they have been in good cap shape the last 2 years to add other players.
you can say this is the same situation the NYG have been in for a decade but it isn't - they havent had any other regime get to year 3 since Coughlin. This team is more like the roster entering the 2006 or 2007 and the future will be determined by how many of the players they chose develop like webster, jacobs, tuck, etc.
most of the teams that have hired new regimes (like LAC) this year or last are farther behind NYG. and that is the chunk of the nfl at the bottom. the giants are in the largest set of teams which is the mushy middle.
the difference between 2022 and 2023 is just weird.
Daboll went from legit Coach of the Year to a guy who made odd decisions in training camp and the regular season. Schoen went from a guy who we all felt good about to a guy who re-signed Daniel Jones to $160 million.
Now we have 11 new coaches, including a new DC and STC...massive changes.
2024 is going to be very interesting. Do we get back on track as an overachieving team? Or are we going to be yelling on game threads about "WTF is Daboll doing?"
that people have here about how horrible we will be. You do realize the roster is actually better now than it was last year.
YES, I am comparing to the middle of the pack group for a reason. If you are counting on a top pick next year don't look at the 49ers, Eagles, Cowboys- look at all of the other MIDDLE of the road teams... We won games last year with fucking Tommy Devito at QB, Justin off the Couch PUGH at G and a whole bunch of who the hell are these guys playing a lot..
Health on the Oline alone could add 2 wins to our total.
My point isn't about us being good it is that some here are being dumb to think we will just have a top 10 pick next year!
The roster had better be better. The OL couldn't even function.
Our skill position players right now on April 19, 2024? Ummm.... perhaps the worst in the NFL.
You are what your record and draft position say you are.
But you are saying we will be next year and that isn't a given. We were 9-7-1 in 2022 (flawed roster) and 6-11 last year (but with a decimated Oline).. My point is, this team is middle of the pack and a decent draft keeps them middle upper middle end of the pack. So counting on a top 10 pick next year is a poor way of deciding what to do..
If we trade up for a QB and have to give up our 2nd round pick this year and possibly another pick this year, let alone next, we’re more than likely to finish in the top 10 than not. And if not the top 10, 11-13.
Don’t forget the Giants play the AFC North. We can easily lose all 4 of those games and most likely will.
that people have here about how horrible we will be. You do realize the roster is actually better now than it was last year.
YES, I am comparing to the middle of the pack group for a reason. If you are counting on a top pick next year don't look at the 49ers, Eagles, Cowboys- look at all of the other MIDDLE of the road teams... We won games last year with fucking Tommy Devito at QB, Justin off the Couch PUGH at G and a whole bunch of who the hell are these guys playing a lot..
Health on the Oline alone could add 2 wins to our total.
My point isn't about us being good it is that some here are being dumb to think we will just have a top 10 pick next year!
The roster had better be better. The OL couldn't even function.
Our skill position players right now on April 19, 2024? Ummm.... perhaps the worst in the NFL.
Except for losing Barkley, it is better, IMHO. Hyatt in 2nd year. Wand'Dale better. Singletary may be as functional as Barkley. Waller was not much.
Plus, I do think the OL will be better(not saying much is it?)
I think it's clear they want a QB, but it's not clear how badly they want one if they don't want to trade up to get one lol.
It's not a question of trading up. It's a question of how many draft picks do you have to give up. Minnesota's trade assets and roster allow them to to risk more. They are one player away.
The Giants really like Maye & McCarthy. I expect them to lean into their familiarity with Arizona and move up to 4. They've already made a trade with Simmons.
But I am not sure the fan base understands that the new QB won't impact the W-L record in 2024. He may not even play.
I doubt a new QB even plays especially McCarthy and Maye - earliest midseason, possibly last couple games.
I could see Penix earlier.
I think Williams, Daniels, and Penix (if taken top half of first round) will be starting by game 6 or earlier. I think JJM and DM might be later season starters.
singletary ended up being their best back bc pierce didnt fit new regime.
nico collins prior high in yards was 400.
dalton schultz was the most accomplished player on their offense entering the season with a rookie QB.
that is the NFL. hitting on a Tank Dell day 2 and having a guy like Collins break out in year 3 are the types of things that propel teams every year.
im not saying or predicting this NYG regime will do that, just that the opportunity is entirely there for them if they have gotten prior picks right and get more right next week - which is literally their jobs. if they are good at their jobs this team will take a big step forward in year 3.
if they dont it is the start of a rebuild but it will probably be somebody else's next year.
I think it's clear they want a QB, but it's not clear how badly they want one if they don't want to trade up to get one lol.
It's not a question of trading up. It's a question of how many draft picks do you have to give up. Minnesota's trade assets and roster allow them to to risk more. They are one player away.
I.e. how badly you want one. If you desperately want a QB you do whatever you can to get one. If you don't, then you are less willing to part with draft picks for one.
the difference between 2022 and 2023 is just weird.
Daboll went from legit Coach of the Year to a guy who made odd decisions in training camp and the regular season. Schoen went from a guy who we all felt good about to a guy who re-signed Daniel Jones to $160 million.
Now we have 11 new coaches, including a new DC and STC...massive changes.
2024 is going to be very interesting. Do we get back on track as an overachieving team? Or are we going to be yelling on game threads about "WTF is Daboll doing?"
Obviously injuries decimated us last year. I know we say that every year but last year made the team completely unfunctional. Obviously if we stay healthy it should help us at least stay competent otherwise we are looking at a full coaching changes again in 25.
My biggest thing I’ve said a few times and I think you have pointed to me in the past is not having the starters play in the preseason. We have injuries all the time whether they play preseason or not. But I hate hearing from Daboll that these joint practices and scrimmages are better than playing in the preseason. Bull-F’ng-sh*t. He needs to play the starters the full half of games.
It will likelu me down to whether AZ wants a king's ransom for pick 4,
No, that's simply not true. You don't give up "whatever you have to" in any situation. Or you won't have a team.
This is a red line.
It takes two to tango. And the other team may prefer the package that the Vikings or Broncos are offering better. The Giants are not going to give up "whatever it takes" to take the 4th QB in the draft.
singletary ended up being their best back bc pierce didnt fit new regime.
nico collins prior high in yards was 400.
dalton schultz was the most accomplished player on their offense entering the season with a rookie QB.
that is the NFL. hitting on a Tank Dell day 2 and having a guy like Collins break out in year 3 are the types of things that propel teams every year.
im not saying or predicting this NYG regime will do that, just that the opportunity is entirely there for them if they have gotten prior picks right and get more right next week - which is literally their jobs. if they are good at their jobs this team will take a big step forward in year 3.
if they dont it is the start of a rebuild but it will probably be somebody else's next year.
Eric, that’s more of an aberration than the norm. You can count on one hand how many times that’s happened over the past 30 years.
.......But I hate hearing from Daboll that these joint practices and scrimmages are better than playing in the preseason. Bull-F’ng-sh*t. He needs to play the starters the full half of games.
Not half the games. The old way was 1 qtr 1st game. Maybe a half in the 2nd and into 3rd in the 3rd game. 4th game was for final evals(no more 4th).
I am with you that 1 series is not enough. I could see half of game 2, but with 1 quarter or 2 series in games 1 and 3...IMO anyway.
But, a Giant fan saying they should have drafted Ben over Eli is one of them. Wow.
SFGF is right, I don't think he would have done well in this market. Not to mention the two come from behind 4th quarter comebacks in super bowls against Belichick. I guess we gloss over that.
And Accorsi was right. His scouting report talked about Eli's knack for 4th quarter comebacks. It defined his career here.
The Giants really like Maye & McCarthy. I expect them to lean into their familiarity with Arizona and move up to 4. They've already made a trade with Simmons.
I'd say it's more likely than not AZ would prefer to get Nabers/MHJ plus a moderate trade vs a king's ransom and missing out on their blue chip guy like they did last year (which worked ok with Paris Johnson playing well, but the pick they got was much lower than expected and Anderson Jr is amazing so I don't think they would want to do that again).
If they like both JJM and Maye, then I'd bet they would trade 2025 2nd and 3rd or so but that would be about my limit.
Injuries, inflated egos, bad choices, tougher schedule
they won 9 games in 2022 with almost everything going their way.
if i told you andrew thomas would get hurt in week 1 and play more than half the year injured.
and jones regresses + he/tyrod would get hurt leaving them to start a UDFA for a month+.
and Wink would stage a mini-coup from midseason on.
and waller would get hurt as usual and not play all that great when healthy.
and barkley would miss time/regress in performance behind worse ol.
how many games would you expect to revise that 9 wins down to? my best guess is less than the 6 they won.
it is amazing to me that people dont anticipate better how these pendulum's swing in the NFL. the giants could suck again next year or they be this years texans with a great draft and good injury luck. the swings happen precisely because more than 2/3s of the league is at the same roster talent level. a handful are a lot better and a handful are a lot worse but thats it.
Accorsi had a strong conviction on Eli Manning and he swung hard and got it right.
They should have drafted Ben Roethlisberger.
And he’d still be serving time at Rikers for sexual assault had we drafted him.
+1000000000000.
Ben would’ve never lasted here with the media and fans with that fiasco. I don’t care what anyone says. Eli was much better than Ben. Especially in Big games.
No, that's simply not true. You don't give up "whatever you have to" in any situation. Or you won't have a team.
This is a red line.
It takes two to tango. And the other team may prefer the package that the Vikings or Broncos are offering better. The Giants are not going to give up "whatever it takes" to take the 4th QB in the draft.
Sure, the other team may prefer a different package. But that's not quite what we've been hearing. What we've been hearing is the Giants are reluctant to give up as much as other teams. Whether that's smart or not is up for debate. You seem to be on the side of saying you wouldn't give up a lot to move up, which is fine but lets not pretend the Giants aren't even being given the chance to try.
No, that's simply not true. You don't give up "whatever you have to" in any situation. Or you won't have a team.
This is a red line.
It takes two to tango. And the other team may prefer the package that the Vikings or Broncos are offering better. The Giants are not going to give up "whatever it takes" to take the 4th QB in the draft.
And the whole 4th ranked QB thing is bull. WE have no idea how the Giants ranked these guys.
RE: RE: what did anyone think of houston's skill players this time last year?
singletary ended up being their best back bc pierce didnt fit new regime.
nico collins prior high in yards was 400.
dalton schultz was the most accomplished player on their offense entering the season with a rookie QB.
that is the NFL. hitting on a Tank Dell day 2 and having a guy like Collins break out in year 3 are the types of things that propel teams every year.
im not saying or predicting this NYG regime will do that, just that the opportunity is entirely there for them if they have gotten prior picks right and get more right next week - which is literally their jobs. if they are good at their jobs this team will take a big step forward in year 3.
if they dont it is the start of a rebuild but it will probably be somebody else's next year.
Eric, that’s more of an aberration than the norm. You can count on one hand how many times that’s happened over the past 30 years.
i am not counting on it happening merely pointing out that it happened, and that things like it happen every season. look at the coach of the year voting every season and you will find that many teams who have had similar happen each season.
that is exactly what happened with this regime and this team in 2022 when they entered the season with david sills, kenny golladay, sterling shepard with rookie bellinger at TE.
RE: Injuries, inflated egos, bad choices, tougher schedule
they won 9 games in 2022 with almost everything going their way.
if i told you andrew thomas would get hurt in week 1 and play more than half the year injured.
and jones regresses + he/tyrod would get hurt leaving them to start a UDFA for a month+.
and Wink would stage a mini-coup from midseason on.
and waller would get hurt as usual and not play all that great when healthy.
and barkley would miss time/regress in performance behind worse ol.
how many games would you expect to revise that 9 wins down to? my best guess is less than the 6 they won.
it is amazing to me that people dont anticipate better how these pendulum's swing in the NFL. the giants could suck again next year or they be this years texans with a great draft and good injury luck. the swings happen precisely because more than 2/3s of the league is at the same roster talent level. a handful are a lot better and a handful are a lot worse but thats it.
I do think we will be on the over side of 6.5 games, but probably not by much. I'd imagine we pick somewhere between 10-15 next year, which will be a tough spot for maneuvering to get a QB. That makes me feel like if they can get a guy they like this year then they should do it. Of course, there is a limit to what we should trade. AZ will either prefer a king's ransom or prefer a moderate package while getting Nabers/MHJ.
Opening night. You're at home against your division rival. Everyone is fired up.
40-0.
Huh? What does that have to do with anything I wrote?
I said outside of injuries, they were completely unprepared from lack of playing time in the preseason. Daboll effed up by not playing them at all. Wink said it would take 4-5 weeks for the defense to hit stride. That’s unacceptable. They should’ve been playing more in the preseason.
Opening night. You're at home against your division rival. Everyone is fired up.
40-0.
Huh? What does that have to do with anything I wrote?
I said outside of injuries, they were completely unprepared from lack of playing time in the preseason. Daboll effed up by not playing them at all. Wink said it would take 4-5 weeks for the defense to hit stride. That’s unacceptable. They should’ve been playing more in the preseason.
The 40-0 bashing proves my point.
I'm not arguing with you. I'm supporting what you said.
You're so obsessed with drafting a QB regardless of the cost that you aren't even using your head.
The Giants are trying to trade up. Period.
They may or may not be able to win a bidding competition.
(I knew we were going to have fans who can't accept that reality, and you're obviously one of them).
Eric, you're putting words in my mouth. You seem to be under the assumption that the Giants shouldn't even be trying to compete with the Vikings to trade up because of the cost. I'm saying that we don't even know what the cost is or how hard the Giants are trying.
And please spare me the "can't accept reality" bullshit. I've been saying for months I don't think the Giants will get a QB this and that a trade down might be in there best interest. It's almost like sometimes you're talking yourself down when you're posting.
There is nowhere on this site where I've said the Giants should not look into trading up.
We know they are looking to trade up.
However, there is a red line you can't cross or there will be nothing to build around the QB. You can't give up #6, our #1 in 2025, #1 in 2026 for example. For McCarthy? That's just insane.
You've emotionally reacted to every piece of news that casts doubt on the possibility of getting one of the four top guys in the draft. And you're still doing it.
Again, the Giants may be able to trade up. But there is a good chance they will be out-bid. It's not a matter of not trying.
Part is that I like the player, but the bigger part is that if he's an option at 6 that protects the Giants from either having to trade up or in the event they shit at 6 and the other 4 are drafted.
If this is a 5 QB draft it changes the calculus enormously in the Giants' favor. And the case for a 5 QB draft is that there are good arguments for Maye and McCarthy not being clearly better than Penix.
Sit tight at 6 and take the best QB on your board. Maybe it's Maye, maybe McCarthy, maybe Penix. The point is they're close together. So sit tight and don't fall in full bloom love.
There is nowhere on this site where I've said the Giants should not look into trading up.
We know they are looking to trade up.
However, there is a red line you can't cross or there will be nothing to build around the QB. You can't give up #6, our #1 in 2025, #1 in 2026 for example. For McCarthy? That's just insane.
You've emotionally reacted to every piece of news that casts doubt on the possibility of getting one of the four top guys in the draft. And you're still doing it.
Again, the Giants may be able to trade up. But there is a good chance they will be out-bid. It's not a matter of not trying.
There is only one of us being emotional here and it isn't me. I think at this point we agree that the Giants should look to trade up, we disagree on what it will cost or how much they should give up.
Again, for the tenth time, I DON'T THINK THE GIANTS WILL TRADE UP. So, the notion that I'm disappointed every time a piece of news casts doubt on the possibility is silly because I don't expect it to happen to begin with.
to trade up with AZ, and the top 3 QB’s go 1-3, if I were the AZ GM, I would think about just drafting McCarthy. Tell the giants you are willing to deal him for a top WR and picks. But wait and see how the draft falls until 11. If they like someone at 11, they trade with Minneapolis. If they would rather have who the giants drafted, they trade with them.
to trade up with AZ, and the top 3 QB’s go 1-3, if I were the AZ GM, I would think about just drafting McCarthy. Tell the giants you are willing to deal him for a top WR and picks. But wait and see how the draft falls until 11. If they like someone at 11, they trade with Minneapolis. If they would rather have who the giants drafted, they trade with them.
I think someone posted recently that they've changed the rules where you can't draft a guy and then trade him anymore.
Then they need to land Nix or Penix . At 6 or trade down or trade up from rd 1
This is the draft to shoot your shot at QB.
This is the list of QBs available when Giants drafted last 5 years
Daniel Jones
Dwayne Haskins
Tua
Justin Herbert
Mac Jones
Justin Fields
Kenny Pickett
Will Levis
Thats 5 years worth of 1st rd QBs . You cant just count on the future getting 1. Nor can anyone discount that Penix and/or Nix may be better than the other 4
am sure the Giants have looked into and tried to trade up, and they may still be able to do so before or during the draft. But it is becoming increasingly likely IMO that they will not be able to do so, either because the teams above them don't want to trade with anyone, someone outbids them, or they aren't willing to offer what the other team wants.
RE: Assuming both the Vikings and Giants are trying
to trade up with AZ, and the top 3 QB’s go 1-3, if I were the AZ GM, I would think about just drafting McCarthy. Tell the giants you are willing to deal him for a top WR and picks. But wait and see how the draft falls until 11. If they like someone at 11, they trade with Minneapolis. If they would rather have who the giants drafted, they trade with them.
Or, teams tell AZ to eff off and they are stuck with an extra 1st round QB.
They won't draft the QB unless time is close and the deal isn't complete with the team they are dealing with - ala 2004 and Eli..
the difference between 2022 and 2023 is just weird.
Daboll went from legit Coach of the Year to a guy who made odd decisions in training camp and the regular season. Schoen went from a guy who we all felt good about to a guy who re-signed Daniel Jones to $160 million.
Now we have 11 new coaches, including a new DC and STC...massive changes.
2024 is going to be very interesting. Do we get back on track as an overachieving team? Or are we going to be yelling on game threads about "WTF is Daboll doing?"
I don't think it's that weird. It's an emotional game. They came into the season with expectations. They were moving the ball and all of the sudden they get a penalty and like that --everything imaginable went wrong against them.
I don't think people realize the impact the way that played out had on the team. They were shell shocked and took them a long time to recover. I've thought this for a while, but have held back in brining it up because you can't have a logical conversation anymore with all of the Jones talk or Jones verses TT or DeVito, but the team, not just the QB, was in a massive funk, and it took them a while to get out of it.
At the end of the year the team started to play better and really looked like they did in 2022. We beat Philly and you would think there would be SOME enthusiasm about it, but there is one. Why? Because Philly was a mess at the time.
Well guess what? The Giants early on were in just as much as a state as Philly was. It happens in the league. But nobody seems to see that. The team sucks, the sky is falling, Jones was the worse signing ever and we won't win another game unless some other QB is in there. Is that all really so? 2022 was all a mirage and yet everything (bad stuff only) from 2023 is the reality?
YES, I am comparing to the middle of the pack group for a reason. If you are counting on a top pick next year don't look at the 49ers, Eagles, Cowboys- look at all of the other MIDDLE of the road teams... We won games last year with fucking Tommy Devito at QB, Justin off the Couch PUGH at G and a whole bunch of who the hell are these guys playing a lot..
Health on the Oline alone could add 2 wins to our total.
My point isn't about us being good it is that some here are being dumb to think we will just have a top 10 pick next year!
Every year we go through. BBI'ers claiming the roster is better than it is.
this is wrong.
this regime is in year 3. most of the roster is their draft picks. they have been in good cap shape the last 2 years to add other players.
you can say this is the same situation the NYG have been in for a decade but it isn't - they havent had any other regime get to year 3 since Coughlin. This team is more like the roster entering the 2006 or 2007 and the future will be determined by how many of the players they chose develop like webster, jacobs, tuck, etc.
most of the teams that have hired new regimes (like LAC) this year or last are farther behind NYG. and that is the chunk of the nfl at the bottom. the giants are in the largest set of teams which is the mushy middle.
Daboll went from legit Coach of the Year to a guy who made odd decisions in training camp and the regular season. Schoen went from a guy who we all felt good about to a guy who re-signed Daniel Jones to $160 million.
Now we have 11 new coaches, including a new DC and STC...massive changes.
2024 is going to be very interesting. Do we get back on track as an overachieving team? Or are we going to be yelling on game threads about "WTF is Daboll doing?"
But I am not sure the fan base understands that the new QB won't impact the W-L record in 2024. He may not even play.
I doubt a new QB even plays especially McCarthy and Maye - earliest midseason, possibly last couple games.
I could see Penix earlier.
YES, I am comparing to the middle of the pack group for a reason. If you are counting on a top pick next year don't look at the 49ers, Eagles, Cowboys- look at all of the other MIDDLE of the road teams... We won games last year with fucking Tommy Devito at QB, Justin off the Couch PUGH at G and a whole bunch of who the hell are these guys playing a lot..
Health on the Oline alone could add 2 wins to our total.
My point isn't about us being good it is that some here are being dumb to think we will just have a top 10 pick next year!
The roster had better be better. The OL couldn't even function.
Our skill position players right now on April 19, 2024? Ummm.... perhaps the worst in the NFL.
Quote:
Not flawed.
We're picking in the top 10.
Again.
You are what your record and draft position say you are.
But you are saying we will be next year and that isn't a given. We were 9-7-1 in 2022 (flawed roster) and 6-11 last year (but with a decimated Oline).. My point is, this team is middle of the pack and a decent draft keeps them middle upper middle end of the pack. So counting on a top 10 pick next year is a poor way of deciding what to do..
If we trade up for a QB and have to give up our 2nd round pick this year and possibly another pick this year, let alone next, we’re more than likely to finish in the top 10 than not. And if not the top 10, 11-13.
Don’t forget the Giants play the AFC North. We can easily lose all 4 of those games and most likely will.
Quote:
that people have here about how horrible we will be. You do realize the roster is actually better now than it was last year.
YES, I am comparing to the middle of the pack group for a reason. If you are counting on a top pick next year don't look at the 49ers, Eagles, Cowboys- look at all of the other MIDDLE of the road teams... We won games last year with fucking Tommy Devito at QB, Justin off the Couch PUGH at G and a whole bunch of who the hell are these guys playing a lot..
Health on the Oline alone could add 2 wins to our total.
My point isn't about us being good it is that some here are being dumb to think we will just have a top 10 pick next year!
The roster had better be better. The OL couldn't even function.
Our skill position players right now on April 19, 2024? Ummm.... perhaps the worst in the NFL.
Except for losing Barkley, it is better, IMHO. Hyatt in 2nd year. Wand'Dale better. Singletary may be as functional as Barkley. Waller was not much.
Plus, I do think the OL will be better(not saying much is it?)
It's not a question of trading up. It's a question of how many draft picks do you have to give up. Minnesota's trade assets and roster allow them to to risk more. They are one player away.
Quote:
I know that. You know that.
But I am not sure the fan base understands that the new QB won't impact the W-L record in 2024. He may not even play.
I doubt a new QB even plays especially McCarthy and Maye - earliest midseason, possibly last couple games.
I could see Penix earlier.
I think Williams, Daniels, and Penix (if taken top half of first round) will be starting by game 6 or earlier. I think JJM and DM might be later season starters.
nico collins prior high in yards was 400.
dalton schultz was the most accomplished player on their offense entering the season with a rookie QB.
that is the NFL. hitting on a Tank Dell day 2 and having a guy like Collins break out in year 3 are the types of things that propel teams every year.
im not saying or predicting this NYG regime will do that, just that the opportunity is entirely there for them if they have gotten prior picks right and get more right next week - which is literally their jobs. if they are good at their jobs this team will take a big step forward in year 3.
if they dont it is the start of a rebuild but it will probably be somebody else's next year.
Quote:
I think it's clear they want a QB, but it's not clear how badly they want one if they don't want to trade up to get one lol.
It's not a question of trading up. It's a question of how many draft picks do you have to give up. Minnesota's trade assets and roster allow them to to risk more. They are one player away.
I.e. how badly you want one. If you desperately want a QB you do whatever you can to get one. If you don't, then you are less willing to part with draft picks for one.
Daboll went from legit Coach of the Year to a guy who made odd decisions in training camp and the regular season. Schoen went from a guy who we all felt good about to a guy who re-signed Daniel Jones to $160 million.
Now we have 11 new coaches, including a new DC and STC...massive changes.
2024 is going to be very interesting. Do we get back on track as an overachieving team? Or are we going to be yelling on game threads about "WTF is Daboll doing?"
Obviously injuries decimated us last year. I know we say that every year but last year made the team completely unfunctional. Obviously if we stay healthy it should help us at least stay competent otherwise we are looking at a full coaching changes again in 25.
My biggest thing I’ve said a few times and I think you have pointed to me in the past is not having the starters play in the preseason. We have injuries all the time whether they play preseason or not. But I hate hearing from Daboll that these joint practices and scrimmages are better than playing in the preseason. Bull-F’ng-sh*t. He needs to play the starters the full half of games.
This is a red line.
It takes two to tango. And the other team may prefer the package that the Vikings or Broncos are offering better. The Giants are not going to give up "whatever it takes" to take the 4th QB in the draft.
Accorsi had a strong conviction on Eli Manning and he swung hard and got it right.
They should have drafted Ben Roethlisberger.
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Accorsi had a strong conviction on Eli Manning and he swung hard and got it right.
They should have drafted Ben Roethlisberger.
And he’d still be serving time at Rikers for sexual assault had we drafted him.
nico collins prior high in yards was 400.
dalton schultz was the most accomplished player on their offense entering the season with a rookie QB.
that is the NFL. hitting on a Tank Dell day 2 and having a guy like Collins break out in year 3 are the types of things that propel teams every year.
im not saying or predicting this NYG regime will do that, just that the opportunity is entirely there for them if they have gotten prior picks right and get more right next week - which is literally their jobs. if they are good at their jobs this team will take a big step forward in year 3.
if they dont it is the start of a rebuild but it will probably be somebody else's next year.
Eric, that’s more of an aberration than the norm. You can count on one hand how many times that’s happened over the past 30 years.
40-0.
Not half the games. The old way was 1 qtr 1st game. Maybe a half in the 2nd and into 3rd in the 3rd game. 4th game was for final evals(no more 4th).
I am with you that 1 series is not enough. I could see half of game 2, but with 1 quarter or 2 series in games 1 and 3...IMO anyway.
SFGF is right, I don't think he would have done well in this market. Not to mention the two come from behind 4th quarter comebacks in super bowls against Belichick. I guess we gloss over that.
And Accorsi was right. His scouting report talked about Eli's knack for 4th quarter comebacks. It defined his career here.
I'd say it's more likely than not AZ would prefer to get Nabers/MHJ plus a moderate trade vs a king's ransom and missing out on their blue chip guy like they did last year (which worked ok with Paris Johnson playing well, but the pick they got was much lower than expected and Anderson Jr is amazing so I don't think they would want to do that again).
If they like both JJM and Maye, then I'd bet they would trade 2025 2nd and 3rd or so but that would be about my limit.
they won 9 games in 2022 with almost everything going their way.
if i told you andrew thomas would get hurt in week 1 and play more than half the year injured.
and jones regresses + he/tyrod would get hurt leaving them to start a UDFA for a month+.
and Wink would stage a mini-coup from midseason on.
and waller would get hurt as usual and not play all that great when healthy.
and barkley would miss time/regress in performance behind worse ol.
how many games would you expect to revise that 9 wins down to? my best guess is less than the 6 they won.
it is amazing to me that people dont anticipate better how these pendulum's swing in the NFL. the giants could suck again next year or they be this years texans with a great draft and good injury luck. the swings happen precisely because more than 2/3s of the league is at the same roster talent level. a handful are a lot better and a handful are a lot worse but thats it.
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In comment 16475481 Rave7 said:
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Accorsi had a strong conviction on Eli Manning and he swung hard and got it right.
They should have drafted Ben Roethlisberger.
And he’d still be serving time at Rikers for sexual assault had we drafted him.
+1000000000000.
Ben would’ve never lasted here with the media and fans with that fiasco. I don’t care what anyone says. Eli was much better than Ben. Especially in Big games.
This is a red line.
It takes two to tango. And the other team may prefer the package that the Vikings or Broncos are offering better. The Giants are not going to give up "whatever it takes" to take the 4th QB in the draft.
Sure, the other team may prefer a different package. But that's not quite what we've been hearing. What we've been hearing is the Giants are reluctant to give up as much as other teams. Whether that's smart or not is up for debate. You seem to be on the side of saying you wouldn't give up a lot to move up, which is fine but lets not pretend the Giants aren't even being given the chance to try.
This is a red line.
It takes two to tango. And the other team may prefer the package that the Vikings or Broncos are offering better. The Giants are not going to give up "whatever it takes" to take the 4th QB in the draft.
And the whole 4th ranked QB thing is bull. WE have no idea how the Giants ranked these guys.
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singletary ended up being their best back bc pierce didnt fit new regime.
nico collins prior high in yards was 400.
dalton schultz was the most accomplished player on their offense entering the season with a rookie QB.
that is the NFL. hitting on a Tank Dell day 2 and having a guy like Collins break out in year 3 are the types of things that propel teams every year.
im not saying or predicting this NYG regime will do that, just that the opportunity is entirely there for them if they have gotten prior picks right and get more right next week - which is literally their jobs. if they are good at their jobs this team will take a big step forward in year 3.
if they dont it is the start of a rebuild but it will probably be somebody else's next year.
Eric, that’s more of an aberration than the norm. You can count on one hand how many times that’s happened over the past 30 years.
i am not counting on it happening merely pointing out that it happened, and that things like it happen every season. look at the coach of the year voting every season and you will find that many teams who have had similar happen each season.
that is exactly what happened with this regime and this team in 2022 when they entered the season with david sills, kenny golladay, sterling shepard with rookie bellinger at TE.
they won 9 games in 2022 with almost everything going their way.
if i told you andrew thomas would get hurt in week 1 and play more than half the year injured.
and jones regresses + he/tyrod would get hurt leaving them to start a UDFA for a month+.
and Wink would stage a mini-coup from midseason on.
and waller would get hurt as usual and not play all that great when healthy.
and barkley would miss time/regress in performance behind worse ol.
how many games would you expect to revise that 9 wins down to? my best guess is less than the 6 they won.
it is amazing to me that people dont anticipate better how these pendulum's swing in the NFL. the giants could suck again next year or they be this years texans with a great draft and good injury luck. the swings happen precisely because more than 2/3s of the league is at the same roster talent level. a handful are a lot better and a handful are a lot worse but thats it.
I do think we will be on the over side of 6.5 games, but probably not by much. I'd imagine we pick somewhere between 10-15 next year, which will be a tough spot for maneuvering to get a QB. That makes me feel like if they can get a guy they like this year then they should do it. Of course, there is a limit to what we should trade. AZ will either prefer a king's ransom or prefer a moderate package while getting Nabers/MHJ.
There is a really, really good chance the Giants like Williams, Daniels, and Maye more than McCarthy.
40-0.
Huh? What does that have to do with anything I wrote?
I said outside of injuries, they were completely unprepared from lack of playing time in the preseason. Daboll effed up by not playing them at all. Wink said it would take 4-5 weeks for the defense to hit stride. That’s unacceptable. They should’ve been playing more in the preseason.
The 40-0 bashing proves my point.
The Giants are trying to trade up. Period.
They may or may not be able to win a bidding competition.
(I knew we were going to have fans who can't accept that reality, and you're obviously one of them).
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Opening night. You're at home against your division rival. Everyone is fired up.
40-0.
Huh? What does that have to do with anything I wrote?
I said outside of injuries, they were completely unprepared from lack of playing time in the preseason. Daboll effed up by not playing them at all. Wink said it would take 4-5 weeks for the defense to hit stride. That’s unacceptable. They should’ve been playing more in the preseason.
The 40-0 bashing proves my point.
I'm not arguing with you. I'm supporting what you said.
The Giants are trying to trade up. Period.
They may or may not be able to win a bidding competition.
(I knew we were going to have fans who can't accept that reality, and you're obviously one of them).
Eric, you're putting words in my mouth. You seem to be under the assumption that the Giants shouldn't even be trying to compete with the Vikings to trade up because of the cost. I'm saying that we don't even know what the cost is or how hard the Giants are trying.
And please spare me the "can't accept reality" bullshit. I've been saying for months I don't think the Giants will get a QB this and that a trade down might be in there best interest. It's almost like sometimes you're talking yourself down when you're posting.
We know they are looking to trade up.
However, there is a red line you can't cross or there will be nothing to build around the QB. You can't give up #6, our #1 in 2025, #1 in 2026 for example. For McCarthy? That's just insane.
You've emotionally reacted to every piece of news that casts doubt on the possibility of getting one of the four top guys in the draft. And you're still doing it.
Again, the Giants may be able to trade up. But there is a good chance they will be out-bid. It's not a matter of not trying.
If this is a 5 QB draft it changes the calculus enormously in the Giants' favor. And the case for a 5 QB draft is that there are good arguments for Maye and McCarthy not being clearly better than Penix.
Sit tight at 6 and take the best QB on your board. Maybe it's Maye, maybe McCarthy, maybe Penix. The point is they're close together. So sit tight and don't fall in full bloom love.
We know they are looking to trade up.
However, there is a red line you can't cross or there will be nothing to build around the QB. You can't give up #6, our #1 in 2025, #1 in 2026 for example. For McCarthy? That's just insane.
You've emotionally reacted to every piece of news that casts doubt on the possibility of getting one of the four top guys in the draft. And you're still doing it.
Again, the Giants may be able to trade up. But there is a good chance they will be out-bid. It's not a matter of not trying.
There is only one of us being emotional here and it isn't me. I think at this point we agree that the Giants should look to trade up, we disagree on what it will cost or how much they should give up.
Again, for the tenth time, I DON'T THINK THE GIANTS WILL TRADE UP. So, the notion that I'm disappointed every time a piece of news casts doubt on the possibility is silly because I don't expect it to happen to begin with.
I think someone posted recently that they've changed the rules where you can't draft a guy and then trade him anymore.
You're right, I'll be nicer. Pinky swear.
Then they need to land Nix or Penix . At 6 or trade down or trade up from rd 1
This is the draft to shoot your shot at QB.
This is the list of QBs available when Giants drafted last 5 years
Daniel Jones
Dwayne Haskins
Tua
Justin Herbert
Mac Jones
Justin Fields
Kenny Pickett
Will Levis
Thats 5 years worth of 1st rd QBs . You cant just count on the future getting 1. Nor can anyone discount that Penix and/or Nix may be better than the other 4
Or, teams tell AZ to eff off and they are stuck with an extra 1st round QB.
They won't draft the QB unless time is close and the deal isn't complete with the team they are dealing with - ala 2004 and Eli..
Daboll went from legit Coach of the Year to a guy who made odd decisions in training camp and the regular season. Schoen went from a guy who we all felt good about to a guy who re-signed Daniel Jones to $160 million.
Now we have 11 new coaches, including a new DC and STC...massive changes.
2024 is going to be very interesting. Do we get back on track as an overachieving team? Or are we going to be yelling on game threads about "WTF is Daboll doing?"
I don't think it's that weird. It's an emotional game. They came into the season with expectations. They were moving the ball and all of the sudden they get a penalty and like that --everything imaginable went wrong against them.
I don't think people realize the impact the way that played out had on the team. They were shell shocked and took them a long time to recover. I've thought this for a while, but have held back in brining it up because you can't have a logical conversation anymore with all of the Jones talk or Jones verses TT or DeVito, but the team, not just the QB, was in a massive funk, and it took them a while to get out of it.
At the end of the year the team started to play better and really looked like they did in 2022. We beat Philly and you would think there would be SOME enthusiasm about it, but there is one. Why? Because Philly was a mess at the time.
Well guess what? The Giants early on were in just as much as a state as Philly was. It happens in the league. But nobody seems to see that. The team sucks, the sky is falling, Jones was the worse signing ever and we won't win another game unless some other QB is in there. Is that all really so? 2022 was all a mirage and yet everything (bad stuff only) from 2023 is the reality?
I don't think so.
But impossible to discuss that with anyone.