Hello all. I’ve finally been given the OK to post SOME of what has been in the works with the draft around the corner. This post also includes some information regarding the TOP 10. Let’s get started.
- It is fully believed that the 1st two picks will be Caleb Williams and Jayden Daniels respectively. Conversations have already been had with Daniels representatives and the Commanders FO. They have told Daniels that he is the pick.
- The Patriots are highest on (Caleb Williams assumed not available) Daniels, followed by Michael Penix Jr. and Bo Nix. They don’t like the inconsistency they see from Drake Maye and are scared only the lack of volume shown by McCarthy. They want a QB that is mature and tested. Someone they feel comfortable playing Year 1 and can execute at a high level. If Daniels is gone, the Patriots seem keen on trading down. However, they seem to be less likely to trade with the Giants as they value having multiple picks in the 2024 draft rather than future 2025 picks (which would bode well for the Vikings). While they need help at WR, they are likely to pass up one of the top options for more draft capital and one of Penix/Nix.
- If the Patriots trade out with Minnesota, the strong belief now is that Minnesota would go with JJ McCarthy over Drake Maye at 3. Kevin O’ Connell is said to like McCarthy’s ability to efficiently read defenses and properly distribute the ball to the correct read. McCarthy also has the arm strength to challenge all parts of the field. It’s said the Vikings are throwing the smokescreen that they like Maye as a way not to alarm the Giants, who many believe want McCarthy over Maye as well.
- The Giants have seemingly boxed out of #3. But they have a good shot at a trade to #4 as GM Ossenfort doesn’t want to trade out of the top 8. Arizona has a good haul of picks as is, but they would take a slight trade back to #6 if it meant an extra pick or two. (Reportedly it would take #6, #70, and a 2025 2nd)
- The Giants HAVE been throwing QB smokescreens and it’s viewed that they ideally want McCarthy over Maye as well. They have been using the Eli connection and the Josh Allen comps to lead teams to believe they want Maye via trade up, however, they see where Josh Allen was as a prospect and where Drake Maye is a prospect as vastly different. Allen famously didn’t have a QB coach during his time at Wyoming and was strictly succeeding off pure athletic ability. Maye has had coaching and tutelage, yet his fundamentals and processing are notably off compared to others in the class.
The belief that is building around McCarthy is that Harbaugh kind of handcuffed him a bit in Michigan’s offense. “He routinely had to convert 3rd and 5+ when he was called on to throw and he ranks right there with Caleb Williams in those situations.”
- if McCarthy, Nabers, and MHJ are off the board, the Giants would rather trade back and accumulate more picks. They like Rome Odunze, but would rather more picks to fill other areas and taking another option later in the draft at WR.
- In a trade down scenario the Giants strongly favor Quinyon Mitchell and DTs Johnny Newton and Byron Murphy.
- If the Giants can get a QB in the first, they will attempt to flip a pick for a Vet WR (Brandon Aiyuk, Tee Higgins, DeAndre Hopkins)
I should be getting one more check in before the draft.
(PS...I don't sound so crazy about Nix now.).
If the Vikings are coming up to #3, glad to hear it is McCarthy they like. If they don't like Maye, trade back and get more picks, potentially even a Penix or Nix if they like them.
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at #6 as well. Pats probably calculate that they can safely trade down past NYG and get him.
If the Vikings are coming up to #3, glad to hear it is McCarthy they like. If they don't like Maye, trade back and get more picks, potentially even a Penix or Nix if they like them.
I personally would prefer Maye or Penix myself, but if everyone (including our coaches) actually wants McCarthy I'll assume I'm mistaken until JJM proves he's a bust. I will say JJM does not seem like Jones at all in terms of pre-draft hype. In other words, it doesn't seem like the Giants are alone in thinking he's a top 10 pick.
(Putting this in there in case non-friendly eyes are reading!)
Newton or Mitchell plus draft capital may help this team more than Odunze.
That being said, let's say the NE moves, which is what I was expecting and have been saying for a while. If Minny comes up and gets JJM, that means we are at 6 with Maye being available. The Giants could move back (Denver is still a possibility as is LV). I wouldn't move back and I would take Maye here. Too much is being made about his play last year and not enough about the year before.
If we did move with Denver, then grabbing Patrick Surtain would be a MASSIVE coup.. We could then stay at 12 or move down again, snag some more picks and even use some to acquire an Aiyuk or even Higgins..
I wonder what happens if NE stays put and takes JJM or Maye. If Giants have inside track with Arizona, they could still get their guy.
But the trade down is getting more and more appealing.
A 3 tech is very much a need but there should be several available on day 2.
That being said, let's say the NE moves, which is what I was expecting and have been saying for a while. If Minny comes up and gets JJM, that means we are at 6 with Maye being available. The Giants could move back (Denver is still a possibility as is LV). I wouldn't move back and I would take Maye here. Too much is being made about his play last year and not enough about the year before.
If we did move with Denver, then grabbing Patrick Surtain would be a MASSIVE coup.. We could then stay at 12 or move down again, snag some more picks and even use some to acquire an Aiyuk or even Higgins..
Agreed, this trade down would be ideal. And they may still be able to take Penix/Nix if they wanted to in such a scenario
And of the love of God, don't say Daniel Jones.
That's how it reads.
It seems like there's more value in the Giants' 2025 1st than 23, but I guess not.
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Are you saying that if Maye is there at #6, they would pass on him?
Yes. They would use him for trade bait
Wow. Are we looking at a Levis-type fall or close to it?
It seems like there's more value in the Giants' 2025 1st than 23, but I guess not.
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Are you saying that if Maye is there at #6, they would pass on him?
Yes. They would use him for trade bait
WOW, I truly didn't see that coming but now the Schoen talk about getting trading calls to move back makes more and more sense. Hmmm
So it is either we get JJM (according to what GoDeep has shared) or we move back and if Maye is still there Denver, LV and Seattle (yes, Seattle) become immediate trade partner options- Quarterback wise, Chicago, Jacksonville, New Orleans, and Miami become trade partners for other positions..
But I get a corner. And QM is a GREAT prospect.
(PS...I don't sound so crazy about Nix now.).
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In comment 16475745 Eric from BBI said:
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Are you saying that if Maye is there at #6, they would pass on him?
Yes. They would use him for trade bait
Wow. Are we looking at a Levis-type fall or close to it?
I think 4 is if JJM is still available.
Trade down maybe opens up the possibility of Penix/Nix (although sounds like Pats will do whatever it takes to get Nix), but otherwise I guess we truly are riding it back with Jones this year.
Quite the risk Schoen/Daboll are taking.
But I get a corner. And QM is a GREAT prospect.
Agree. Good 3 techs to be had on day 2. I would take Mitchell or even one of the edge rushers.
Check me into rehab.
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Are you saying that if Maye is there at #6, they would pass on him?
Yes. They would use him for trade bait
For pete's sake...
I'll save you a seat.
Trade down maybe opens up the possibility of Penix/Nix (although sounds like Pats will do whatever it takes to get Nix), but otherwise I guess we truly are riding it back with Jones this year.
Quite the risk Schoen/Daboll are taking.
I wouldn't be too sure or concerned about that yet. First off I suspect Luck is here for a reason beyond just being the backup.. If we just needed another QB there were plenty of other options to add a 3rd body..
I think we have plans at QB that are beyond just one or two guys here and I am still sticking with Maye...
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if McCarthy is going 3rd, and the Giants don't like Maye, why even discuss the trade up to #4?
I think 4 is if JJM is still available.
Either they get the QB in round one or put the best team they can on the field for 2024 and roll the dice. They have understanding and grace from Mara/Tisch if they go the QB route.
This is completely opposite of what I heard in February that the team was really high on Maye.
I hope they get this right.
I have no problem with the WR at #6 or the trade down (as long as they get a really good package), but passing on Maye would be ballsy as hell.
He doesn't get past Denver or the Raiders.
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I REALLY hope that you're wrong, lol. But love that you're sharing!
They would take Nabers at 6 if there so don’t be sad just yet!
Any info on what the Chargers might be looking to do? Would they really take Alt at 5 with Nabers sittint there?
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QBs they reportedly would trade up for are Daniels and McCarthy. But as I said earlier, Daniels is gonna be Washington’s pick
This is completely opposite of what I heard in February that the team was really high on Maye.
I hope they get this right.
I have no problem with the WR at #6 or the trade down (as long as they get a really good package), but passing on Maye would be ballsy as hell.
I'll save you a seat.
Hey now, I'm the founding member of the "They're going with Jones Club."
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In comment 16475787 UberAlias said:
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I REALLY hope that you're wrong, lol. But love that you're sharing!
They would take Nabers at 6 if there so don’t be sad just yet!
Any info on what the Chargers might be looking to do? Would they really take Alt at 5 with Nabers sittint there?
interesting that odunze seems to be coming out as a cut below the other 2 in multiple places now.
That said, they have to get their QB at some point.
I wonder has Maye's stock dropped in their eyes or did I get bad info. Regardless, I'm not sure how I feel about this.
I understand not trading up, but if they can get the QB without moving, they had better be right that he isn't the guy.
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like a rock?
He doesn't get past Denver or the Raiders.
Right but that to me is him sinking. He’s gone from probable 2 pick to outside the top 10 potentially, when 5 or 6 teams need QB.
I can’t bring myself to believe the Giants don’t like one of those 4 enough to take at 6. I’ll believe it when I see it.
I understand Maye may need work and a year to sit, but that's why Lock is there. Corner is needed but how much? This isn't Wink's system. It's a difficult position to draft and picking a DT would be kind of disappointing.
b/c by then the Giants either get one of the big 3 WR's or trade down with the team who loves Maye if he's there or they take Maye if this is all a smoke screen.
The only thing I will say is if they move McCarthy they should get him. Of course you can't control what you can't control but that type of aggressive action is the kind of confidence I want a GM to have.
That said, they have to get their QB at some point.
I wonder has Maye's stock dropped in their eyes or did I get bad info. Regardless, I'm not sure how I feel about this.
I understand not trading up, but if they can get the QB without moving, they had better be right that he isn't the guy.
look at the wider picture if mayes stock has dropped that he is available at 6 it isnt just the giants opinion of him that changed - it's everyone's.
im not necessarily buying that to be the case but it's possible. last year levis was #3 in mcginn's ranks, ar15 was #4 and that obviously reversed with levis falling hard.
seems like draft starts at #3.
Newton could make our defensive front scary good.
Mitchell gives us one of the best young CB duos.
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publicly on an internet website? Is letting the world know they we don't want Maye really useful?
I won’t say you or right or wrong. I will even potentially undercut myself by saying I have been told what I CAN say and what I CAN’T say.
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publicly on an internet website? Is letting the world know they we don't want Maye really useful?
I won’t say you or right or wrong. I will even potentially undercut myself by saying I have been told what I CAN say and what I CAN’T say.
Wink, wink, nod, nod.
That along with the Head Coach being hired specifically to get the most out of QB's.
Newton could make our defensive front scary good.
Mitchell gives us one of the best young CB duos.
I really like Mitchell's chances to be superb.
Newton could make our defensive front scary good.
Mitchell gives us one of the best young CB duos.
I like Arnold better than Mitchell too. I think he's this year's Witherspoon.
I'd still bet a lot more on them adding a QB than trading down though.
That’d be one rational and calm thread.
I think the assumption in GoDeep's scenario is Harrison goes at #4.
The Cardinals would take MHJ..
Whoops... confused the two... I thought you were referring to Newton.
if Denver or Vegas wants up, i think you are probably looking at next year's 1 and an extra day 2 this year.
I think that's a reasonable return if you dont have an elite player left on the board (in this scenario i'll assume the 5 picks were the 3 qbs they like plus nabers/mhj and those were their blue chips).
if they pass on QB this year it will definitely make it easier to justify by having 2 firsts next year. if this regime tanks a new regime comes in and gets to replay 2022.
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.
I think the assumption in GoDeep's scenario is Harrison goes at #4.
Oh okay. I'm curious to hear what our WR rankings are
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If'm I trading down, I want A LOT.
if Denver or Vegas wants up, i think you are probably looking at next year's 1 and an extra day 2 this year.
Or Patrick Surtain II and then we'd draft Byron Murphy II
I hope you gave the hamster extra steroids
And I am okay with that strategy versus reaching for QB4, but you had better be right. And you still have to find a QB next year so it's not like the pressure is off.
Good luck Joey Schoen...everybody is watching.
Don't F' it up.
Get the hamster in tip top shape.
This draft, I have no clue what they'll do, and that's a credit to them for playing the gam well this time around.
How far will Maye drop?
Thank you Deep.
I am happy not to put any emotional investment on draft choices....
I am happy that it does not look like the Giants will be trading up and giving up the farm.
I am a believer with so many holes trading back makes sense
We're getting into smokescreen territory now.
GoDeep said he's been told what he can say.
I still suspect Maye could be the target for both teams.
- The Giants have seemingly boxed out of #3. But they have a good shot at a trade to #4 as GM Ossenfort doesn’t want to trade out of the top 8. Arizona has a good haul of picks as is, but they would take a slight trade back to #6 if it meant an extra pick or two. (Reportedly it would take #6, #70, and a 2025 2nd)"
So it would be Bears - Caleb; Commanders - Daniels; Vikings - McCarthy.
Why would we trade up to 4 then? Or are you saying that that's an option in the first three picks are Caleb, Daniels, Maye (to the Vikings)? I guess Schoen wouldn't want to get cute and get leapfrogged by the Broncos, Seahawks or Raiders and so he would trade up to #4 for McCarthy?
Ooh, another asshat! Come one, come all!
Great point. I still want him and want Daboll to have a chance to work with him.
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I REALLY hope that you're wrong, lol. But love that you're sharing!
They would take Nabers at 6 if there so don’t be sad just yet!
JFC
I have no problem with a trade back but hopefully not too far where they still can get Odunze because QB/McCarthy aside, WR1 is by far their biggest need.
Oh, I see it. Thanks
I really get the idea of building a team identity around a kick-ass, pound your ass defense -- complementing Burns, Dex, Thibs, Okereke with another piece like a really good 3-techique DT.
What concerns me about not addressing QB is the uproar and turmoil that would ensue about Mara calling the shots, protecting DJ, especially if they pass on Maye who is perceived by many to be in the QB top tier. Fwiw, I am really tired of that narrative.
And if the belief in DJ is real, how can you not provide him a legitimate WR #1 in a WR-rich draft class?
Could've been scouting Cedric Gray or Tez Walker? *shrugs*
I really get the idea of building a team identity around a kick-ass, pound your ass defense -- complementing Burns, Dex, Thibs, Okereke with another piece like a really good 3-techique DT.
What concerns me about not addressing QB is the uproar and turmoil that would ensue about Mara calling the shots, protecting DJ, especially if they pass on Maye who is perceived by many to be in the QB top tier. Fwiw, I am really tired of that narrative.
And if the belief in DJ is real, how can you not provide him a legitimate WR #1 in a WR-rich draft class?
I guess because they are building a “team”
Tons of holes on this roster and it’s not going to be filled overnight
- The Giants have seemingly boxed out of #3. But they have a good shot at a trade to #4 as GM Ossenfort doesn’t want to trade out of the top 8. Arizona has a good haul of picks as is, but they would take a slight trade back to #6 if it meant an extra pick or two. (Reportedly it would take #6, #70, and a 2025 2nd)"
So it would be Bears - Caleb; Commanders - Daniels; Vikings - McCarthy.
Why would we trade up to 4 then? Or are you saying that that's an option in the first three picks are Caleb, Daniels, Maye (to the Vikings)? I guess Schoen wouldn't want to get cute and get leapfrogged by the Broncos, Seahawks or Raiders and so he would trade up to #4 for McCarthy?
Get the hamster in tip top shape.
We gonna need a back up hamster.. maybe even an upgrade to a guinea pig.
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"- If the Patriots trade out with Minnesota, the strong belief now is that Minnesota would go with JJ McCarthy over Drake Maye at 3. Kevin O’ Connell is said to like McCarthy’s ability to efficiently read defenses and properly distribute the ball to the correct read. McCarthy also has the arm strength to challenge all parts of the field. It’s said the Vikings are throwing the smokescreen that they like Maye as a way not to alarm the Giants, who many believe want McCarthy over Maye as well.
- The Giants have seemingly boxed out of #3. But they have a good shot at a trade to #4 as GM Ossenfort doesn’t want to trade out of the top 8. Arizona has a good haul of picks as is, but they would take a slight trade back to #6 if it meant an extra pick or two. (Reportedly it would take #6, #70, and a 2025 2nd)"
So it would be Bears - Caleb; Commanders - Daniels; Vikings - McCarthy.
Why would we trade up to 4 then? Or are you saying that that's an option in the first three picks are Caleb, Daniels, Maye (to the Vikings)? I guess Schoen wouldn't want to get cute and get leapfrogged by the Broncos, Seahawks or Raiders and so he would trade up to #4 for McCarthy?
if VIKINGS trade up for McCarthy with NE, we stay at 6 and see who falls. If Nabers or MHJ are there. They are the pick. if Maye or Odunze are what’s left, expect the phones to be worked.
lol.
thanks for sharing this - fun thread.
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"- If the Patriots trade out with Minnesota, the strong belief now is that Minnesota would go with JJ McCarthy over Drake Maye at 3. Kevin O’ Connell is said to like McCarthy’s ability to efficiently read defenses and properly distribute the ball to the correct read. McCarthy also has the arm strength to challenge all parts of the field. It’s said the Vikings are throwing the smokescreen that they like Maye as a way not to alarm the Giants, who many believe want McCarthy over Maye as well.
- The Giants have seemingly boxed out of #3. But they have a good shot at a trade to #4 as GM Ossenfort doesn’t want to trade out of the top 8. Arizona has a good haul of picks as is, but they would take a slight trade back to #6 if it meant an extra pick or two. (Reportedly it would take #6, #70, and a 2025 2nd)"
So it would be Bears - Caleb; Commanders - Daniels; Vikings - McCarthy.
Why would we trade up to 4 then? Or are you saying that that's an option in the first three picks are Caleb, Daniels, Maye (to the Vikings)? I guess Schoen wouldn't want to get cute and get leapfrogged by the Broncos, Seahawks or Raiders and so he would trade up to #4 for McCarthy?
if Patriots trade up for McCarthy with NE, we stay at 6 and see who falls. If Nabers or MHJ are there. They are the pick. if Maye or Odunze are what’s left, expect the phones to be worked.
Thanks GoDeep. Any idea if we prefer MHJ or Nabers?
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You are wrong on the Vikings, however. They are ALL IN on Maye. And if they trade up, it will be for him.
They like Maye. I’ve just been told they seem more in on McCarthy and like his ability to properly distribute with guys like Addison, Jefferson, and Hockenson.
JJ would be fantastic in Minnesota.
My hope is if they want a QB, make the push. The Giants hired a coach who was billed as the man who developed Josh Allen. Only way this team can take a step forward.
Maye, too me, is a bit of a strange one - I don't know why. Just not a fan.
I for one, would prefer a trade back for more picks if their QB is not there. Building a kickass defense would fit the Giants as I think the Defense is closest to being competitive/strong.
Great, more turmoil!
Newton could make our defensive front scary good.
Mitchell gives us one of the best young CB duos.
This is an offensive league with an offensive minded coach with the worst offense and worst offensive skill positions in the NFL. They took Banks last year, KT the year before, traded a 2 & 5 for Burns. They can’t use a first rd pick on defense again.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m a defensive minded guy. I always loved defense more than offense. But to use another pick on defense when you finally have a chance to get the offense a legit WR1 playmaker that we’ve lacked since OBJ to me is beyond idiotic. The defense should at worst be decent. Possibly top half of league. Having an offense now without Barkley, and having DJ or Lock at QB which will Beas bad or worse than last year. Which puts more stress on the defense with more time in the field with 3 n outs. Just having a better offense should make the defense better regardless.
Less than #6 overall this year.
$47 million reasons+
If no QB then Harrison or Nabers at 6. If they are gone a trade down.
My guess is if they trade down and go defense in the 1st, they have sold Mara on a semi tank. Let Jones have one more season and again give him no weapons and look to get a QB in 2025. This team ain’t scoring points with the weapons we have with any QB.
Thanks GoDeep13 that’s me reading between the lines of you and others who post inside info.
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they would have to either trade Jones for peanuts or just let Jones go post June 1. Why would Jones camp take a snap knowing JJM is the heir apparent and he could get injured.
$47 million reasons+
he has an injury clause - pretty easy to get injured in pre-season
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In comment 16475900 stoneman said:
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they would have to either trade Jones for peanuts or just let Jones go post June 1. Why would Jones camp take a snap knowing JJM is the heir apparent and he could get injured.
$47 million reasons+
he has an injury clause - pretty easy to get injured in pre-season
That would be the Giants reason for sitting or trading him, not the Jones camp.
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In comment 16475907 section125 said:
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In comment 16475900 stoneman said:
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they would have to either trade Jones for peanuts or just let Jones go post June 1. Why would Jones camp take a snap knowing JJM is the heir apparent and he could get injured.
$47 million reasons+
he has an injury clause - pretty easy to get injured in pre-season
That would be the Giants reason for sitting or trading him, not the Jones camp.
taking a QB will really really hurt - just say'in - no way Jones takes a snap
This makes the rumor of us getting Brandon Aiyuk more plausible if we have the rookie QB.. Keep in mind we have two WR's who are in year 3 and year 2, you don't want an all young WR group with a rookie QB on board.
Grrrrrrr
Lol
I appreciate the Godeep info...i think the other asshats that come from loud mouth family ownership convey their info in a quieter fashion..no knock, just an observation.
That would be the Giants reason for sitting or trading him, not the Jones camp.
taking a QB will really really hurt - just say'in - no way Jones takes a snap
So what, they sit out in protest? Giving up about $3 mill per week?
I am not sure what you are saying. I cannot see Jones pouting.
Ha! Great point!!!
That only makes sense if it works out that way BUT we have heard Schrager and others say Giants like JJM..
Williams.
Daniels.
McCarthy.
MHJ/Nabers.
Alt.
It would be stunning if the Giants passed on Maye. As Eric said, it would take some brass balls to do so. But I agree he would be great trade bait, and I would be very happy with Mitchell in a trade down.
Hell, if it was up to me, I'd cut him the second he'd pass a physical & just wash our hands clean.
Especially if our trade is with Denver... Get 12 and Surtain and then draft Newton/Murphy.... That Def is looking amazing.
I appreciate the Godeep info...i think the other asshats that come from loud mouth family ownership convey their info in a quieter fashion..no knock, just an observation.
I agree - the NYGs made their bed with Jones, they will not be selecting QB this year, maybe next year or the year after, but not this year - IMO
Hell, if it was up to me, I'd cut him the second he'd pass a physical & just wash our hands clean.
I agree. Unless there is a team that would want him for a 7th rounder, I would let him go.
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Imagine him next to Dexter with Burns and KT off the edge.
Especially if our trade is with Denver... Get 12 and Surtain and then draft Newton/Murphy.... That Def is looking amazing.
A Surtain acquisition changes everything, now you could trade down again and still get a bigtime defender and then load up on 2nd and 3rd picks..
Do not discount Jared Verse who could be a monster in the NFL..
The football ops people from the Pats wanted the draft picks. But Kraft wants a QB, I am assuming he gets his way. So how this works out is anyone's guess at this point.
I appreciate the Godeep info...i think the other asshats that come from loud mouth family ownership convey their info in a quieter fashion..no knock, just an observation.
There are definitely conflicting asshat reports on the QB.
There are also conflicting asshat reports on the WRs.
Long story short, we really don't know what is going on this year.
Joe Schoen should never work again in the NFL. He'd be that fucking stupid.
This is like a slow moving disaster that I fear is going to happen.
[quote] Kraft wants a QB, was told they were high on JJM. The Giants wanted the #3 spot to grab Maye. They were willing to give up the #6, 2025 #1 and the 2025 #3.
The football ops people from the Pats wanted the draft picks. But Kraft wants a QB, I am assuming he gets his way. So how this works out is anyone's guess at this point. [/quote
If true, move up to 4 & take Drake.
Do we know what the plan is at QB if they pick a WR at 6?
Do we know what the plan is at QB if they pick a WR at 6?
Godeep said Rd 1 QB or punt to next year.
Do we know what the plan is at QB if they pick a WR at 6?
Your worst nightmare. I already asked it. You, bw in dc, christian, and I are headed for a bar.
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I didn't see it answered in the OP but I apologize if it's been answered elsewhere in the thread:
Do we know what the plan is at QB if they pick a WR at 6?
Your worst nightmare. I already asked it. You, bw in dc, christian, and I are headed for a bar.
So fucking dumb.
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In comment 16475823 Eric from BBI said:
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Imagine him next to Dexter with Burns and KT off the edge.
Especially if our trade is with Denver... Get 12 and Surtain and then draft Newton/Murphy.... That Def is looking amazing.
A Surtain acquisition changes everything, now you could trade down again and still get a bigtime defender and then load up on 2nd and 3rd picks..
Do not discount Jared Verse who could be a monster in the NFL..
How much will Surtain cost to re-sign? Cannot be cheap.
[quote] Kraft wants a QB, was told they were high on JJM. The Giants wanted the #3 spot to grab Maye. They were willing to give up the #6, 2025 #1 and the 2025 #3.
The football ops people from the Pats wanted the draft picks. But Kraft wants a QB, I am assuming he gets his way. So how this works out is anyone's guess at this point. [/quote
If true, move up to 4 & take Drake.
Maye has to be the guy..Too much is leaking about JJM and that seems pretty intentional.
@prettyrickey213
Patriots are 100% taking a QB and walking away from this draft with either Drake Maye or JJ McCarthy. If they trade down they need to be assured they'll get one of those two guys (assuming it would be JJMC since the Vikings and Broncos are so high on Maye)
It's kind of odd around the time ESPN reporting gambling odds you recently get green-lighted to post. And what you are posting couldn't be more opposite than where the money is trending. In addition, as they were quoting on ESPN that the Agent wasn’t very happy with Washington after the meeting.
With that said, I can see it - but would we all agree that if teh Giants pass of Maye, Penix, and Nix, and just oen of the 3 show to be very good next year, that we might have a staff that is just over-their-heads? I say "might" because it's possible they get a lot and the Giants get some amazing Suprises with their picks.
Building through the trenches is a pretty good strategy but you better be right with basically ignoring the QB spot. I'll say again- could have maybe had Fields.
And I don’t understand if GoDeep is suggesting that the Giants are still interested in Penix or Nix if they don’t get JJM and after Maye gets taken (assuming by Raiders or Denver).
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In comment 16475931 Amtoft said:
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In comment 16475823 Eric from BBI said:
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Imagine him next to Dexter with Burns and KT off the edge.
Especially if our trade is with Denver... Get 12 and Surtain and then draft Newton/Murphy.... That Def is looking amazing.
A Surtain acquisition changes everything, now you could trade down again and still get a bigtime defender and then load up on 2nd and 3rd picks..
Do not discount Jared Verse who could be a monster in the NFL..
How much will Surtain cost to re-sign? Cannot be cheap.
Very true, but if you are going to invest big $$$$ a lockdown CB is a good place to do it….
Hopefully…we will have a QB on a rookie contract where we would be able to do it
.@AlbertBreer says the #Patriots “have prepared themselves for the possibility that they trade down,” but it’s not likely they do so.
“If you trade down, you lose the certainty that you’re gonna get the quarterback you want and I do think ownership wants a quarterback here.”
@prettyrickey213
Patriots are 100% taking a QB and walking away from this draft with either Drake Maye or JJ McCarthy. If they trade down they need to be assured they'll get one of those two guys (assuming it would be JJMC since the Vikings and Broncos are so high on Maye)
Uh oh!!!
Battle of asshat supremacy!
Good Lord.
It's kind of odd around the time ESPN reporting gambling odds you recently get green-lighted to post. And what you are posting couldn't be more opposite than where the money is trending. In addition, as they were quoting on ESPN that the Agent wasn’t very happy with Washington after the meeting.
With that said, I can see it - but would we all agree that if teh Giants pass of Maye, Penix, and Nix, and just oen of the 3 show to be very good next year, that we might have a staff that is just over-their-heads? I say "might" because it's possible they get a lot and the Giants get some amazing Suprises with their picks.
Building through the trenches is a pretty good strategy but you better be right with basically ignoring the QB spot. I'll say again- could have maybe had Fields.
And I don’t understand if GoDeep is suggesting that the Giants are still interested in Penix or Nix if they don’t get JJM and after Maye gets taken (assuming by Raiders or Denver).
According to GoDeep, Penix and Nix are not in the picture for the Giants.
Do we know what the plan is at QB if they pick a WR at 6?
Your worst nightmare. I already asked it. You, bw in dc, christian, and I are headed for a bar.
I might go right for the moonshine to try and forget.
I appreciate the Godeep info...i think the other asshats that come from loud mouth family ownership convey their info in a quieter fashion..no knock, just an observation.
I tend to agree. I love GoDeep13 and he’s nailed a bunch of stuff in the past but just the way this thread is laid out gives me pause. And that’s nothing against him, I love this shit. But the fact he lined out that this is the stuff he was allowed to put out there in an earlier post should let us all know that everything mentioned could be a smokescreen. The Giants aren’t going to give him the go ahead to blast off a bunch of info a week before the draft. If they are allowing it, there is a reason. And secondly, starting a new thread to highlight what the team is thinking could also have a motive behind it
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emerged out of no where (to me atleast), Woodstock, who claimed NYG is not taking JJM. Think Grit did too.
I appreciate the Godeep info...i think the other asshats that come from loud mouth family ownership convey their info in a quieter fashion..no knock, just an observation.
There are definitely conflicting asshat reports on the QB.
There are also conflicting asshat reports on the WRs.
Long story short, we really don't know what is going on this year.
This is true and things are always fluid.
I'd love a one-sheet review of all asshatery on Wednesday lol
@prettyrickey213
Patriots are 100% taking a QB and walking away from this draft with either Drake Maye or JJ McCarthy. If they trade down they need to be assured they'll get one of those two guys (assuming it would be JJMC since the Vikings and Broncos are so high on Maye)
This further highlights what the gambling odds are implying that Maye has more value that what is being mentioed here. Granted gambling odds don't mean much - but the timing is sort of funny.
Good Lord.
I read it as the Giants want a QB, but only the one they've fallen in full bloom love with.
If they think they're shopping hungry now they will find out for real next year when they're asking themselves if it's worth trading away picks to move up for Quinn Ewers. Or paying Jared Goff $55M a year.
Good Lord.
Everybody on the Daniel Jones train - get on board with Milton and myself - LOL future GOAT
.@AlbertBreer says the #Patriots “have prepared themselves for the possibility that they trade down,” but it’s not likely they do so.
“If you trade down, you lose the certainty that you’re gonna get the quarterback you want and I do think ownership wants a quarterback here.”
They could trade down to 6 then back up to 5 with LAC so the Vikings do not leap frog them.
If you have the conviction to trade that much, you aren't getting played by the Giants.
So much for that trade down fantasy.
Good Lord.
Not what he said at all, or maybe it is or maybe...but the way this is all going I guess I should never say never..😔
This organization is so fucking stupid if this shit is to believed that the plan is roll with Jones this fall. I sometimes wonder if I could do a better job with the QB position after spending 6 hours at a bar.
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emerged out of no where (to me atleast), Woodstock, who claimed NYG is not taking JJM. Think Grit did too.
I appreciate the Godeep info...i think the other asshats that come from loud mouth family ownership convey their info in a quieter fashion..no knock, just an observation.
I tend to agree. I love GoDeep13 and he’s nailed a bunch of stuff in the past but just the way this thread is laid out gives me pause. And that’s nothing against him, I love this shit. But the fact he lined out that this is the stuff he was allowed to put out there in an earlier post should let us all know that everything mentioned could be a smokescreen. The Giants aren’t going to give him the go ahead to blast off a bunch of info a week before the draft. If they are allowing it, there is a reason. And secondly, starting a new thread to highlight what the team is thinking could also have a motive behind it
Additionally, GoDeeps mole is agency related i believe? It's led to hits in the past. I think the best "source" for the draft will come from the loud family members of the NYG org. But even then....could be smoke/fluid
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So, in essence, what GoDeep13 is hinting @...another year hoping Jones takes the leap?
Good Lord.
Everybody on the Daniel Jones train - get on board with Milton and myself - LOL future GOAT
I mean really - why would GoDeep's sources allow him to spill these beans - really too many beans - NABERS - NABERS
.@AlbertBreer says the #Patriots “have prepared themselves for the possibility that they trade down,” but it’s not likely they do so.
“If you trade down, you lose the certainty that you’re gonna get the quarterback you want and I do think ownership wants a quarterback here.”
Can you imagine if NE loves Nix and doesn't want to risk moving down. It would change the whole first round.
Despite years of experience to the contrary I'm going to try to stay positive and tell myself the Giants couldn't possibly be that stupid.
Now we're talking - LOL - maybe this GoDeep misdirection means ODUNZE - ODUNZE
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will rise again! Mr. Minnesota
Despite years of experience to the contrary I'm going to try to stay positive and tell myself the Giants couldn't possibly be that stupid.
If they are, I'm going to have my daughter do regular artwork for the front page.
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In comment 16475980 bw in dc said:
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will rise again! Mr. Minnesota
Despite years of experience to the contrary I'm going to try to stay positive and tell myself the Giants couldn't possibly be that stupid.
If they are, I'm going to have my daughter do regular artwork for the front page.
How we soon forget - has everybody forgotten Minnesota - Milton, a little help
This reeks of John.
The football ops people from the Pats wanted the draft picks. But Kraft wants a QB, I am assuming he gets his way. So how this works out is anyone's guess at this point.
I put a lot of stock in this. If anyone watched the Dynasty, Kraft is obsessed with having a QB that he can consider a son. He talked about how Bledsoe was like a son and the Brady was like a son. The reports are that BB wanted to move on from Mac after his 2nd year but Kraft nixed it because he loved Mac. Also, Kraft has been taking a lot of hits from the NE fans between the way the Dynasty (which his production company produced) trashed and minimized Belichick and the latest ESPN story. I 100% think that he could see taking a QB who could be another son as a way to get the fans off his back. Or, put another way, he wants to avoid further negative backlash if they trade away a chance to get another franchise QB.
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In comment 16475980 bw in dc said:
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will rise again! Mr. Minnesota
Despite years of experience to the contrary I'm going to try to stay positive and tell myself the Giants couldn't possibly be that stupid.
If they are, I'm going to have my daughter do regular artwork for the front page.
👍
It would be SO disheartening.
If he is truly the gu, would any price be to high ? A top 10 QB in the league is worth a lot. Not saying he is that
I'd also be surprised if the Giants didn't take a QB somewhere in this draft, especially if they acquired extra picks by trading down. But Schoen may have been telling the truth when he said that he was comfortable with the current QB room. Wow.
If true, I, uh, just can't. John Mara seems like a good person, but if so he's 1) delusional or 2) so taken with Jones for reasons I'll never understand. Perhaps if Jones sticks around long enough, he'll wed a Mara & John can have someone he can hang around with at family functions. I don't know. The priority obviously isn't winning.
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will rise again! Mr. Minnesota
Despite years of experience to the contrary I'm going to try to stay positive and tell myself the Giants couldn't possibly be that stupid.
"Stupid is as stupid does."
Forrest Gump.
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In comment 16475984 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16475980 bw in dc said:
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will rise again! Mr. Minnesota
Despite years of experience to the contrary I'm going to try to stay positive and tell myself the Giants couldn't possibly be that stupid.
If they are, I'm going to have my daughter do regular artwork for the front page.
👍
It would be SO disheartening.
Got to get some popcorn and nachos ready for Thursday night. Just a matter of which mind numbing elixir I will consume watching the site burn down.
Gonna by an interesting week watching people work themselves into a frenzy!
Check me into rehab.
Same, lol
If true, I, uh, just can't. John Mara seems like a good person, but if so he's 1) delusional or 2) so taken with Jones for reasons I'll never understand. Perhaps if Jones sticks around long enough, he'll wed a Mara & John can have someone he can hang around with at family functions. I don't know. The priority obviously isn't winning.
Mara is not directing this. Please stop. We have already learned that Schoen can do what he wants at QB. Yes he may like Jones, but the Giants are his passion. So I believe the team vastly outpaces the player.
I have to believe that much of this simply has to be subterfuge. There is no way this team is passing on Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels if either is there at six and choosing instead to run it back with DJ! Can you imagine??? That would be without question the most catastrophic draft day mistake this franchise will have ever made. And with draft day disasters like Cedric Jones, Rocky Thompson, Thomas Lewis and DJ himself, that is truly saying something.
I simply have to believe that the JJM narrative is the ultimate smoke screen on every level to either enhance the trade value of teams wanting to trade back, or to get other teams off the Daniels/Maye trail. I am just not sure what GM is dumb enough to buy any of it though. If it turns out to be Schoen, BW will indeed be proven right on every level about him!
Can we at least wait until the actual draft results before the whining? Come on.
If JS can pull it off even by getting to 4 he is a magician
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Let's face facts: the Giants are a stupid AF organization. Since 2014-the last 10 seasons-the Giants have lost double digit games eight times. EIGHT! You almost have to try to be that bad in a league made for parity.
Can we at least wait until the actual draft results before the whining? Come on.
Huh? That's not whining. Those are facts. The Giants have been a dumpster fire the last decade.
We are currently entering into year 3 of the current organization....they should not be responsible for the previous decade.....as most of the current leaders were not here.
Do we know what the plan is at QB if they pick a WR at 6?
Once he can pass a physical this year, waive him. Close the fucking book.
If Maye is sitting there at 6 and NYG passes could you imagine the fan reaction? If they pass on him for another QB fine, but for a WR? I don't see it.
The concern, based on the information GoDeep is sharing (huge thanks to him, by the way) is that the Giants might laser focus on one guy in a class of six pretty close candidates. It's a flawed methodology that for some reason is applied to quarterbacks but not other positions.
This reeks of John.
Here we go. I knew it would be coming.
They might want to replace Jones, but conclude JJM and Maye aren't worth the price.
We're not witnessing a doofus like Gettleman taking in a few Senior Bowl snaps pulling a Kenny Powers. Schoen is doing a thorough evaluation, but that doesn't guarantee any outcomes.
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I didn't see it answered in the OP but I apologize if it's been answered elsewhere in the thread:
Do we know what the plan is at QB if they pick a WR at 6?
Punt. It’s expected Nix and Penix will go 1st round Giants won’t give up to trade for Nix. Penix all depends on where he falls.
Thanks again for the info. Really appreciate it.
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I didn't see it answered in the OP but I apologize if it's been answered elsewhere in the thread:
Do we know what the plan is at QB if they pick a WR at 6?
Punt. It’s expected Nix and Penix will go 1st round Giants won’t give up to trade for Nix. Penix all depends on where he falls.
If Nix is available on day two, will he be in play for Schoen?
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That's pretty clear by their actions. This thread has some trolling going on to rile people up. But, they've been all over the country with these QB prospects.
They might want to replace Jones, but conclude JJM and Maye aren't worth the price.
We're not witnessing a doofus like Gettleman taking in a few Senior Bowl snaps pulling a Kenny Powers. Schoen is doing a thorough evaluation, but that doesn't guarantee any outcomes.
If they can't get a QB via draft I expect Lock to start.
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No. I think the Giants are this stupid. And if true, F all that ‘Mara isn’t dictating shit’ talk.
This reeks of John.
Here we go. I knew it would be coming.
I could be completely wrong. I'm willing to admit that. But if Maye is there @ 6 & we pass on him considering all the nuggets we've gotten from the beats/Eric...I think John might be stepping in. Again, I could be completely off base. But the thought of passing on Maye & watching him become a stud QB-which I think he could be-sickens me.
If they can't get a QB via draft I expect Lock to start.
"Can't get a QB via the draft" is unacceptable.
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That's pretty clear by their actions. This thread has some trolling going on to rile people up. But, they've been all over the country with these QB prospects.
The concern, based on the information GoDeep is sharing (huge thanks to him, by the way) is that the Giants might laser focus on one guy in a class of six pretty close candidates. It's a flawed methodology that for some reason is applied to quarterbacks but not other positions.
This I agree with. I wish they'd pivot at take Penix at 6.
This is what drives me nuts about QBs and the draft. Penix is likely going in the first, possibly at 13 to Seattle. But, the Giants can't take him at 6? If he hits at 13, he'd hit at 6.
Sometimes that's good and sometimes that's bad. I find it hard to believe that they only like a single QB in this class. If that's the case then they're really not actually looking to replace Daniel.
It's the same risk profile as drafting Evan Neal. You needed a tackle, there were a few options. You picked wrong, he's probably not going to make it. No one gets fired.
Apply the same damn thing to quarterback.
But if they move up for JJM and then swing a trade for a vet WR, that leaves the cupboard pretty bare.
Can they go to 4 with 6+70+2025 3rd AND get Aiyuk with a 2025 2nd?
This is has been a crazy offseason and its only getting started.
I hope people in the Giants organization realize this.
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In comment 16476031 Sean said:
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That's pretty clear by their actions. This thread has some trolling going on to rile people up. But, they've been all over the country with these QB prospects.
The concern, based on the information GoDeep is sharing (huge thanks to him, by the way) is that the Giants might laser focus on one guy in a class of six pretty close candidates. It's a flawed methodology that for some reason is applied to quarterbacks but not other positions.
This I agree with. I wish they'd pivot at take Penix at 6.
This is what drives me nuts about QBs and the draft. Penix is likely going in the first, possibly at 13 to Seattle. But, the Giants can't take him at 6? If he hits at 13, he'd hit at 6.
It’s most likely they don’t like Penix. Immobile and doesn’t handle pressure well is not a formula that works in the NFL.
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In comment 16476031 Sean said:
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That's pretty clear by their actions. This thread has some trolling going on to rile people up. But, they've been all over the country with these QB prospects.
They might want to replace Jones, but conclude JJM and Maye aren't worth the price.
We're not witnessing a doofus like Gettleman taking in a few Senior Bowl snaps pulling a Kenny Powers. Schoen is doing a thorough evaluation, but that doesn't guarantee any outcomes.
If they can't get a QB via draft I expect Lock to start.
It's the same risk profile as drafting Evan Neal. You needed a tackle, there were a few options. You picked wrong, he's probably not going to make it. No one gets fired.
Apply the same damn thing to quarterback.
I've said several times I like Maye least of these 6. Butt if he's there at 6 and they take him, that's fucking great! I'm all for it.
It's not flip out time yet. We'll see what actually happens next week...
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That's pretty clear by their actions. This thread has some trolling going on to rile people up. But, they've been all over the country with these QB prospects.
The concern, based on the information GoDeep is sharing (huge thanks to him, by the way) is that the Giants might laser focus on one guy in a class of six pretty close candidates. It's a flawed methodology that for some reason is applied to quarterbacks but not other positions.
They're not laser focusing on one of six. You don't think Daboll wants CW? Or JD? They're not options. QB1 and QB2 will be off the board. They're finding one (or two) from QB3 to QB6. In any other year the hit rate from that universe of players is very low. It's no wonder they like only one or two from that group.
^^^. At least the 1st few games.
Unless the asshat is Joe Schoen himself I am not buying it. I am fairly confident that Schoen is buttoned up and competent enough to avoid leaks from getting out - and that strategy may include misdirection and smokescreens within the team building.
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In comment 16476031 Sean said:
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That's pretty clear by their actions. This thread has some trolling going on to rile people up. But, they've been all over the country with these QB prospects.
The concern, based on the information GoDeep is sharing (huge thanks to him, by the way) is that the Giants might laser focus on one guy in a class of six pretty close candidates. It's a flawed methodology that for some reason is applied to quarterbacks but not other positions.
They're not laser focusing on one of six. You don't think Daboll wants CW? Or JD? They're not options. QB1 and QB2 will be off the board. They're finding one (or two) from QB3 to QB6. In any other year the hit rate from that universe of players is very low. It's no wonder they like only one or two from that group.
This is true too. However, how often are there even 6 viable QB options to evaluate in a draft? This situation likely to repeat itself anytime soon.
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publicly on an internet website? Is letting the world know they we don't want Maye really useful?
I won’t say you or right or wrong. I will even potentially undercut myself by saying I have been told what I CAN say and what I CAN’T say.
The fact that you are saying all this about McCarthy might lead me to believe Maye truly is their #1 guy.
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^^^. At least the 1st few games.
He seems like a good dude, hard worker. But I can't wait to move on. Again, cut him the day he passes a physical.
You can over draft a QB, I don’t happen to like any of these QBs but can understand taking one at 6. I can’t understand passing on an Elite WR for a good defensive player. Elite players are hard to find. Especially ones at high value positions. Build around elite players.
I enjoy defense, but this isn’t the year to pass on WR.
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So, in essence, what GoDeep13 is hinting @...another year hoping Jones takes the leap?
Good Lord.
Everybody on the Daniel Jones train - get on board with Milton and myself - LOL future GOAT
That's not a train, that's a clown car.
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^^^. At least the 1st few games.
That is a picture of me contemplating another year of DJ quarterbacking.
We'll ask be waiting with baited breath for Eli Manning to come out of retirement so the Giants finally take the leap.
"Not just any QB will do." You have got to be kidding me.
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They want a new QB. But, not just any QB will do.
We'll ask be waiting with baited breath for Eli Manning to come out of retirement so the Giants finally take the leap.
"Not just any QB will do." You have got to be kidding me.
So, it doesn’t matter who they take as long as it’s a QB. And that’s not how they got DJ? Just about what I’d expect from you.
Well, we’ve got every QB on the board as our fav. Gonna be interesting.
Thank you for the intel!
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In comment 16475785 GoDeep13 said:
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QBs they reportedly would trade up for are Daniels and McCarthy. But as I said earlier, Daniels is gonna be Washington’s pick
This is completely opposite of what I heard in February that the team was really high on Maye.
I hope they get this right.
I have no problem with the WR at #6 or the trade down (as long as they get a really good package), but passing on Maye would be ballsy as hell.
They’ve fallen in love with McCarthy. His personality is infectious and he’s been top notch on the board.
I can't believe I missed this thread. I got my popcorn ready.
We'll ask be waiting with baited breath for Eli Manning to come out of retirement so the Giants finally take the leap.
"Not just any QB will do." You have got to be kidding me.
If Schoen and Daboll move forward with Daniel Jones 6.0, I think you can draw two conclusions:
1. They have been given assurances their jobs are very secure at 1925 Giants Way. Or...
2. They are two of the dumbest evaluators of talent, especially Schoen, in the NFL.
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In comment 16475745 Eric from BBI said:
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Are you saying that if Maye is there at #6, they would pass on him?
Yes. They would use him for trade bait
Wow. Are we looking at a Levis-type fall or close to it?
It has always been hugely likely that we won’t see 4 QBs in the top 6, and probably not in the top 10. Fans think only quarterbacks matter, but in NFL history it’s never happened to have 4 QBs in the first 6 and it won’t start this year, probably.
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publicly on an internet website? Is letting the world know they we don't want Maye really useful?
I won’t say you or right or wrong. I will even potentially undercut myself by saying I have been told what I CAN say and what I CAN’T say.
What you can't say being that we have a deal with NE secured if Jayden Daniels goes 2nd. ;) I made a prediction saying we would trade a haul for pick 3 to get JJM and I was sticking to it, I haven't mentioned it since because the anti-JJM crowd here is inabdominable.
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No. I think the Giants are this stupid. And if true, F all that ‘Mara isn’t dictating shit’ talk.
This reeks of John.
Here we go. I knew it would be coming.
Don’t fall for the trick here- this is a poster so laser fixated on the Giants drafting Maye that he is just projecting now- he can’t accept that his unshakeable belief that Maye is the best QB might be wrong and that the Giants don’t believe in Maye. So instead of accepting that he might be wrong, he switches gears and invokes the boogeyman of the owner interfering.
Grow up man and stop acting like a 6 year old
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We'll ask be waiting with baited breath for Eli Manning to come out of retirement so the Giants finally take the leap.
"Not just any QB will do." You have got to be kidding me.
If Schoen and Daboll move forward with Daniel Jones 6.0, I think you can draw two conclusions:
1. They have been given assurances their jobs are very secure at 1925 Giants Way. Or...
2. They are two of the dumbest evaluators of talent, especially Schoen, in the NFL.
I take it as Jones is their guy. They've had 3 years and they didn't try to replace him. That's that.
How far will Maye drop?
Thank you Deep.
I am happy not to put any emotional investment on draft choices....
I am happy that it does not look like the Giants will be trading up and giving up the farm.
I am a believer with so many holes trading back makes sense
Because we obviously don't know if the Vikings or Patriots would take Maye at 3, but we assume they see it similar to how we do and like JJM a lot more. That's my guess.
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We'll ask be waiting with baited breath for Eli Manning to come out of retirement so the Giants finally take the leap.
"Not just any QB will do." You have got to be kidding me.
If Schoen and Daboll move forward with Daniel Jones 6.0, I think you can draw two conclusions:
1. They have been given assurances their jobs are very secure at 1925 Giants Way. Or...
2. They are two of the dumbest evaluators of talent, especially Schoen, in the NFL.
Yeah, they should just ignore their scouts and their own evaluation and just take whatever QB is there no matter what they think of him. That’s a great idea.
Its career suicide for Schoen and he knows it.
The move up for MAYE ONLY would be for some combination of 2’s and 3’s over the next couple years.
Love to hear this, if we could get JJM without having to trade a king's ransom that has been my ideal first round for months. Are you the one with the Vikings insider friend?
Yeah, they should just ignore their scouts and their own evaluation and just take whatever QB is there no matter what they think of him. That’s a great idea.
How about the evaluation that they don't have a quarterback? When does that evaluation come in?
I think Maye is being “over evaluated” and the guy has a shot to be top NFL QB. That is worth the risk at 6.
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Yeah, they should just ignore their scouts and their own evaluation and just take whatever QB is there no matter what they think of him. That’s a great idea.
How about the evaluation that they don't have a quarterback? When does that evaluation come in?
People seem to forget that the losing and dysfunction they fear will result from drafting a QB that busts, we are already there.
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Yeah, they should just ignore their scouts and their own evaluation and just take whatever QB is there no matter what they think of him. That’s a great idea.
How about the evaluation that they don't have a quarterback? When does that evaluation come in?
When they find one worth getting at a price that makes sense. This has been explained over and over again, yet some are stuck on... but but but Jones.
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Yeah, they should just ignore their scouts and their own evaluation and just take whatever QB is there no matter what they think of him. That’s a great idea.
How about the evaluation that they don't have a quarterback? When does that evaluation come in?
And getting a QB that is not any better than what they have is fixing that. Good plan.
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You are wrong on the Vikings, however. They are ALL IN on Maye. And if they trade up, it will be for him.
Ooh, another asshat! Come one, come all!
And the compensation for AZ's pick 4 is about what I predicted which was 2025 2nd and 3rd. I think Sky King is the one with the Vikings friend and he's been adamant that the Vikings love Maye and their fallback is Penix, not JJM. This could work out perfectly for us to get JJM at 4 for pick 6, 70 and 2025 2nd. I've had a vision about JJM as out QB for months. I just feel it, and the trade at 4 for 2025 2nd plus a 3rd has been my hope (outside of the unrealistic dream of JJM at 6).
Hopefully Joe makes the appropriate response and goes ahead to #3 or 4 to ensure they land him.
CW
JD
DM
MP
and I might rather have Nix if we can spend the #6 on Nabers.
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In comment 16476092 Go Terps said:
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We'll ask be waiting with baited breath for Eli Manning to come out of retirement so the Giants finally take the leap.
"Not just any QB will do." You have got to be kidding me.
If Schoen and Daboll move forward with Daniel Jones 6.0, I think you can draw two conclusions:
1. They have been given assurances their jobs are very secure at 1925 Giants Way. Or...
2. They are two of the dumbest evaluators of talent, especially Schoen, in the NFL.
Yeah, they should just ignore their scouts and their own evaluation and just take whatever QB is there no matter what they think of him. That’s a great idea.
You deserve to have Daniel Jones trotting back out there for season number 6 and you deserve the fucking shit fest that is sure to follow. You can keep repeating this same bullshit over and over again all you want but bw is right. If they honestly looked at ALL of the QBs available not only in this draft but also QBs that were available in FA/trades this offseason and came away thinking NONE of them were worth moving on from Jones for, then they absolutely suck at their jobs and they deserve the same outcome as you do
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In comment 16476119 BillT said:
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Yeah, they should just ignore their scouts and their own evaluation and just take whatever QB is there no matter what they think of him. That’s a great idea.
How about the evaluation that they don't have a quarterback? When does that evaluation come in?
When they find one worth getting at a price that makes sense. This has been explained over and over again, yet some are stuck on... but but but Jones.
What does that look like? The Giants have only drafted 3 first round QBs since 1979 so you'll forgive me if I ask what that player looks like.
Sorry, not sorry. I think Maye is still the target.
You deserve to have Daniel Jones trotting back out there for season number 6 and you deserve the fucking shit fest that is sure to follow. You can keep repeating this same bullshit over and over again all you want but bw is right. If they honestly looked at ALL of the QBs available not only in this draft but also QBs that were available in FA/trades this offseason and came away thinking NONE of them were worth moving on from Jones for, then they absolutely suck at their jobs and they deserve the same outcome as you do [/quote]
You’ve got the wrong guy. I’m perfectly happy to replace Jones. I’m also not so myopic about it to believe that any QB will be an improvement. The idea that we have to get a QB is what got us Jones.
Link - ( New Window )
But you can't say "we need a quarterback". You CAN say "we need a quarterback that fits an extremely precise physical, mental, and emotional profile. If this draft doesn't have that guy we can wait."
The Giants are the guy with the associate's degree in English holding out for a job that pays six figures.
But you can't say "we need a quarterback". You CAN say "we need a quarterback that fits an extremely precise physical, mental, and emotional profile. If this draft doesn't have that guy we can wait."
The Giants are the guy with the associate's degree in English holding out for a job that pays six figures.
What’s really remarkable is that none of this is true.
So are you hearing that the Giants would trade up for Maye at 3 or 4 or 5, but if that fails then we take MHJ or Nabers or Odunze whoever is available at 6 and pass on JJM?
Typical for this fanbase. Crying over draft rumors. Not a damn thing has happened yet and just about every possible outcome has now been covered by a number of different asshats.
But you can't say "we need a quarterback". You CAN say "we need a quarterback that fits an extremely precise physical, mental, and emotional profile. If this draft doesn't have that guy we can wait."
The Giants are the guy with the associate's degree in English holding out for a job that pays six figures.
To add on, it’s this nonsense you need a conviction or to fall in love. This kind of thinking leads to holding into too long. Too many chances. Afraid to bring in competition by drafting new guys continually and over evaluation of things that tend to verify your conviction or falling in love or one game .
There are 6 QBs in this draft. take one. We should have taken one in 2018. We would have had a 50/50 shot of drafting a HOFer at QB.
Woodstock, Giantgrit, Ralph Vacchiano: Maye
Am I right? Who am I missing?
Oh, it is going to go on all weekend. There is so much chain jerking going on by pundits and prognosticators that you can find whatever scenario you want that fits your needs. It is so crazy that the GMs themselves might be losing track. We even have usually reliable asshats contradicting each other.
I think it’s hilarious. One asshat sets off the board with information that might be a smokescreen and a bunch of us posters are taking it to heart. Can’t believe the hysteria on this board. GoDeep also said that he’s not allowed to give all the information. I just find it very hard that the game plan is being divulge a week before the draft by an insider. Can’t take this seriously until the draft actually happens.
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The don't want McCarthy. If not Maye they want a WR. I'm not a jerk trolling for shits and giggles. I'm gonna say again. The source is someone who is involved with the Giants draft plans
So are you hearing that the Giants would trade up for Maye at 3 or 4 or 5, but if that fails then we take MHJ or Nabers or Odunze whoever is available at 6 and pass on JJM?
I honestly don't believe any of what is being said. Schoen seems to maybe even have told his team to tell people we don't like guys we like. It sounds like GoDeep has more he can't share yet, and his track record is legit. Peppers also hinted we like JJM. Would it be that shocking if Schoen instructed everyone to say we don't want JJM? Maybe the same can be said about Maye? Perhaps Schoen has instructed people to say we don't like Maye too. And there's a chance he likes both of them enough to trade a 3rd and 2025 and with pick swap via AZ, but doesn't want to pay the king's ransom for either at 3. Could that not be possible? GoDeep specifically requested his source not tell him straight lies. I predict the part he isn't able to share yet is that we have deals in place. Also, why do people think his connections are in the agency world? How would agents get inside information like GoDeep does? I'd guess his connection is much more direct than an agency.
Woodstock, Giantgrit, Ralph Vacchiano: Maye
Am I right? Who am I missing?
There's likely a good chance we want either of them at 4, but neither at 3.
Woodstock, Giantgrit, Ralph Vacchiano: Maye
Am I right? Who am I missing?
Also Peppers hinted at JJM too
Its career suicide for Schoen and he knows it.
The move up for MAYE ONLY would be for some combination of 2’s and 3’s over the next couple years.
Taking a QB with minimal research by the worst GM in the NFL at the time is how we ended up with Jones.
Thankfully those circumstances are not the same this year.
If we actually like both Maye and JJM (hence the contradictory info and smokescreens), then the smart move is to trade with AZ for pick 6, 70 and a 2025. Say Minnesota trades a king's ransom for Maye at 3, we trade up with AZ for JJM and NE takes Nix at 11. Everyone's happy. This is how I see it playing out, but with JJM and Maye being interchangeable though I do believe Minnesota wants Maye and we would be happy with JJM at 4 for a modest trade up price.
We would then have our 2nd round pick to flip for Aiyuk with our 5th and a conditional 2025 pick as well say a 4th that could become a 3rd. This would be ideal to me.
But you can't say "we need a quarterback". You CAN say "we need a quarterback that fits an extremely precise physical, mental, and emotional profile. If this draft doesn't have that guy we can wait."
The Giants are the guy with the associate's degree in English holding out for a job that pays six figures.
What's incredible is that the far majority of BBI did NOT want any part of Daniel Jones leading up to the draft. And now, those same people don't want to move off him unless the perfect QB prospect falls in their lap.
The Giants need an upgrade at QB. They also need a cheaper QB. Maye, McCarthy, Penix & Nix solve that.
And by the way, the thread linked below is an asshat thread from April 2019 linking NYG with Jones. Some reaction.
I didn't mind the Jones pick. Because I believe in taking swings at QB. I just wanted to move on a lot faster. See the Niners.
Link - ( New Window )
that being said.. there is just something about Maye I dont like..
Taking QB's is risky, but you can't let one mistake prevent you from ever taking another chance at the position.
x2
By chance are you a carpenter that works for the Mara’s?
Taking QB's is risky, but you can't let one mistake prevent you from ever taking another chance at the position.
This is the problem with needing a conviction or to fall in love
And we you tend to do so when you are desperate. The Giants passed on QB in 2018 and we were desperate in 2019. I’m hoping we don’t repeat history.
This is all very entertaining, but there is no point getting bent out of shape about this right now.
I don't buy they aren't interested in Maye.
But I also anticipate Maye going at #3 to someone. Patriots, Vikings, Giants.
We shall see.
Take the stud WR or trade back and get a haul of picks to trade up next year for a QB.
Is someone really going to take him at #3 ahead of Maye?
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The don't want McCarthy. If not Maye they want a WR. I'm not a jerk trolling for shits and giggles. I'm gonna say again. The source is someone who is involved with the Giants draft plans
By chance are you a carpenter that works for the Mara’s?
I'm hoping we like both of them and AZ indeed would do the trade with us for 6, 70 and 2025 2nd. Then we will undoubtedly get Maye or JJM, barring any surprise pick in the top 2.
Get the Hamster Ready ( Joe Schoen voice )
Is the hamster wheel greased for Thursday?
I can’t see them passing on Maye at 6.
Or maybe they are fine with either at 4, but neither at 3? The difference between reported trade up to 4 vs trade up to 3 is vast. I predicted pick 6, 2025 2nd and 3rd for pick 4 and I believe AZ would trade with us for that over any other options to secure Nabers or MHJ. If we like both JJM and Maye, then we could potentially secure the QB of the future for pick 6, 70 and 2025 2nd. Sign me up for either of them at that cost (I'd prefer JJM, but it would be great if they were ok with either for that cost).
Woodstock, Giantgrit, Ralph Vacchiano: Maye
Am I right? Who am I missing?
This smells like Maras vs Schoen/Daboll
Take the stud WR or trade back and get a haul of picks to trade up next year for a QB.
Jones is such a liability that if JS is planning on taking a QB next year he may not be around to do so
"They're not going to pass on a QB. That's bullshit."
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they’re automatically replacing him this year. It means he won’t be on the team in 2025. He will be on the team this year regardless. The worst thing they can do is reach for a QB just to take one. If they love Maye or McCarthy, go get him. But if they miss out on them, and they don’t like Penix or Nix, you can’t waste a 1st rd pick on a QB you don’t have conviction in. We will be in the same position we’ve been in the past 5-6 years. And if Daboll/Schoen get fired and a new regime takes over they might not like Penix or Nix and again we will be in this situation.
Take the stud WR or trade back and get a haul of picks to trade up next year for a QB.
Jones is such a liability that if JS is planning on taking a QB next year he may not be around to do so
Who is this QB he is planning on taking and at what draft pick?
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Ryan Dunleavy, Connor Hughes, Peter Schrager, Godeep13: Mccarthy
Woodstock, Giantgrit, Ralph Vacchiano: Maye
Am I right? Who am I missing?
This smells like Maras vs Schoen/Daboll
Haha good point. Maye: Mara, JJM:Schdabs? Or visa versa?
"They're not going to pass on a QB. That's bullshit."
Love it. My theory is they like both JJM or Maye at 4 for the reasonable cost reported. Then they can't lose on their QB pursuit.
In any event, the guy in the supermarket seems to think we are going Ray Finkle at 6, he’s good friends with Marino.
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People can go into a draft saying "we need a WR", "we need an edge rusher", "we need a corner"...
But you can't say "we need a quarterback". You CAN say "we need a quarterback that fits an extremely precise physical, mental, and emotional profile. If this draft doesn't have that guy we can wait."
The Giants are the guy with the associate's degree in English holding out for a job that pays six figures.
What's incredible is that the far majority of BBI did NOT want any part of Daniel Jones leading up to the draft. And now, those same people don't want to move off him unless the perfect QB prospect falls in their lap.
The Giants need an upgrade at QB. They also need a cheaper QB. Maye, McCarthy, Penix & Nix solve that.
And by the way, the thread linked below is an asshat thread from April 2019 linking NYG with Jones. Some reaction.
I didn't mind the Jones pick. Because I believe in taking swings at QB. I just wanted to move on a lot faster. See the Niners. Link - ( New Window )
The best part of BBI is that it is a record and receipt of historical opinions. I actually uttered the phrase on this historical thread that "Gettleman is too smart to do something as stupid as drafting Daniel Jones at six". How utterly wrong I was!!! And I literally just said on today's thread that no GM in the NFL would be dumb enough to pass on Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels at six! Praying I am not wrong again.
Oh and by the way, I feel exactly the same way about JJM today as I did about DJ exactly five years ago. He is a second/third round talent who would be grossly overdrafted at six.
"They're not going to pass on a QB. That's bullshit."
I agree. The logic says QB. The actions say QB. I think either Maye or McCarthy will be a Giant. I do think Schoen is in an intense poker game right now.
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.
Or maybe they are fine with either at 4, but neither at 3? The difference between reported trade up to 4 vs trade up to 3 is vast. I predicted pick 6, 2025 2nd and 3rd for pick 4 and I believe AZ would trade with us for that over any other options to secure Nabers or MHJ. If we like both JJM and Maye, then we could potentially secure the QB of the future for pick 6, 70 and 2025 2nd. Sign me up for either of them at that cost (I'd prefer JJM, but it would be great if they were ok with either for that cost).
Would think cost of #4 is considerably lighter than #3, given the info out there. Vikes are the fly in the ointment.
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Mrs. BBI just weighed in...
"They're not going to pass on a QB. That's bullshit."
I agree. The logic says QB. The actions say QB. I think either Maye or McCarthy will be a Giant. I do think Schoen is in an intense poker game right now.
I agree, I bet he has them in the same tier together after CW/JD and he will take whichever is there at 4.
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In comment 16476151 Go Terps said:
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People can go into a draft saying "we need a WR", "we need an edge rusher", "we need a corner"...
But you can't say "we need a quarterback". You CAN say "we need a quarterback that fits an extremely precise physical, mental, and emotional profile. If this draft doesn't have that guy we can wait."
The Giants are the guy with the associate's degree in English holding out for a job that pays six figures.
What's incredible is that the far majority of BBI did NOT want any part of Daniel Jones leading up to the draft. And now, those same people don't want to move off him unless the perfect QB prospect falls in their lap.
The Giants need an upgrade at QB. They also need a cheaper QB. Maye, McCarthy, Penix & Nix solve that.
And by the way, the thread linked below is an asshat thread from April 2019 linking NYG with Jones. Some reaction.
I didn't mind the Jones pick. Because I believe in taking swings at QB. I just wanted to move on a lot faster. See the Niners. Link - ( New Window )
The best part of BBI is that it is a record and receipt of historical opinions. I actually uttered the phrase on this historical thread that "Gettleman is too smart to do something as stupid as drafting Daniel Jones at six". How utterly wrong I was!!! And I literally just said on today's thread that no GM in the NFL would be dumb enough to pass on Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels at six! Praying I am not wrong again.
Oh and by the way, I feel exactly the same way about JJM today as I did about DJ exactly five years ago. He is a second/third round talent who would be grossly overdrafted at six.
Ya took the words out of my mouth
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Ryan Dunleavy, Connor Hughes, Peter Schrager, Godeep13: Mccarthy
Woodstock, Giantgrit, Ralph Vacchiano: Maye
Am I right? Who am I missing?
This smells like Maras vs Schoen/Daboll
For anyone doubting this possibility just remember that there are Tim McDonnell text messages to Brian Flores that are published in the lawsuit
Per Ralph V
The Flores lawsuit states that Tim McDonnell, the Giants' co-director of player personnel and John Mara's nephew was the first to reach out to Flores, on the day Joe Judge was fired. He set up Flores' talk with John. And he later texted Flores to “come in and win the fng job.”
Why just Daniels at 2?
If Maye goes 2, let’s presume Daniels goes 3 and McCarthy is still on board (and it’s possible that Vikings even trade up here for Maye and take them out of the equation.
If McCarthy goes 2 (seems unlikely but there are some new developments there), then say Pats go Daniels and Maye is on board.
2- McCarthy was a winner in college and top recruit and Jones was 17-19 at Duke and a walk-on.
3- McCarthy is being sought by multiple teams and in potential trade ups. Rumored Pats, Vikings, Broncos at minimum. Jones was liked by Giants and probably only team that was gonna take him although Gettleman claimed the Broncos but many dispute that.
4- McCarthy strengths are presnap reads, plays under pressure, throws with anticipation, 3rd downs and long and throwing on run. Jones collapses under pressure (see graph posted on college QBs other day under pressure - he was in a negative category all by himself), never throws on run and is a 1 read QB who checks down.
5- McCarthy had a 9.0 YPA. jones has never topped 6.8 ypa in college or pro.
They are very different prospects. Almost opposite. They also have entirely opposite personalities
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Giants will have their shot at a QB. Are they prepared to pay the price? If it's no, then the BBI bender begins.
Why just Daniels at 2?
If Maye goes 2, let’s presume Daniels goes 3 and McCarthy is still on board (and it’s possible that Vikings even trade up here for Maye and take them out of the equation.
If McCarthy goes 2 (seems unlikely but there are some new developments there), then say Pats go Daniels and Maye is on board.
This is my hope, that they like both Maye and JJM and have a deal in place with AZ. I'd prefer JJM, but either would be a win at that price to me.
2- McCarthy was a winner in college and top recruit and Jones was 17-19 at Duke and a walk-on.
3- McCarthy is being sought by multiple teams and in potential trade ups. Rumored Pats, Vikings, Broncos at minimum. Jones was liked by Giants and probably only team that was gonna take him although Gettleman claimed the Broncos but many dispute that.
4- McCarthy strengths are presnap reads, plays under pressure, throws with anticipation, 3rd downs and long and throwing on run. Jones collapses under pressure (see graph posted on college QBs other day under pressure - he was in a negative category all by himself), never throws on run and is a 1 read QB who checks down.
5- McCarthy had a 9.0 YPA. jones has never topped 6.8 ypa in college or pro.
They are very different prospects. Almost opposite. They also have entirely opposite personalities
I agree, I think JJM is the anti-Jones. Jones biggest weakness has always been his mind isn't sharp and quick enough with the 2 seconds or less you get to react and make a good decision in the NFL. This is a strength of JJM's.
2- McCarthy was a winner in college and top recruit and Jones was 17-19 at Duke and a walk-on.
3- McCarthy is being sought by multiple teams and in potential trade ups. Rumored Pats, Vikings, Broncos at minimum. Jones was liked by Giants and probably only team that was gonna take him although Gettleman claimed the Broncos but many dispute that.
4- McCarthy strengths are presnap reads, plays under pressure, throws with anticipation, 3rd downs and long and throwing on run. Jones collapses under pressure (see graph posted on college QBs other day under pressure - he was in a negative category all by himself), never throws on run and is a 1 read QB who checks down.
5- McCarthy had a 9.0 YPA. jones has never topped 6.8 ypa in college or pro.
They are very different prospects. Almost opposite. They also have entirely opposite personalities
I'd say Maye is closer to DJ honestly. His issue is how he responds to pressure, whether it's a mental or mechanical break down I'm not sure. My fear is thst it's mental. He has a tendency to lock onto a read and make mistakes under pressure.
I'm not understanding the point. Allen, Mahomes & Jackson were all very boom or bust. You have to draft a QB at some point to even have a chance. You have to swing.
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teams are yet again apparently more than willing to grossly overpay for the right to draft a "franchise" QB. That might be warranted if any of these QBs could legitimately be compared to Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson, but they can't. They are all "boom or bust" projects whose flashes of brilliance come with substantial flaws, including inexperience, accuracy issues, statistics bloated by playing against porous defenses, and lengthy injury histories. Of the top six QBs, one or two might become "franchise" QBs, one or two will likely become journeyman backups, and the rest will be out of the league in four or five years.
I'm not understanding the point. Allen, Mahomes & Jackson were all very boom or bust. You have to draft a QB at some point to even have a chance. You have to swing.
I think he's saying the smart move would be to take either JJM or Maye at 4 vs paying a potentially franchise crushing haul for pick 3 when it's such a risky endeavor.
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teams are yet again apparently more than willing to grossly overpay for the right to draft a "franchise" QB. That might be warranted if any of these QBs could legitimately be compared to Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson, but they can't. They are all "boom or bust" projects whose flashes of brilliance come with substantial flaws, including inexperience, accuracy issues, statistics bloated by playing against porous defenses, and lengthy injury histories. Of the top six QBs, one or two might become "franchise" QBs, one or two will likely become journeyman backups, and the rest will be out of the league in four or five years.
I'm not understanding the point. Allen, Mahomes & Jackson were all very boom or bust. You have to draft a QB at some point to even have a chance. You have to swing.
I should add maybe Daniels at 4, but that is almost a 0% possibility in my mind. We can get one of them at 4 100% and likely for a vastly more reasonable cost than the trade up to 3.
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teams are yet again apparently more than willing to grossly overpay for the right to draft a "franchise" QB. That might be warranted if any of these QBs could legitimately be compared to Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson, but they can't. They are all "boom or bust" projects whose flashes of brilliance come with substantial flaws, including inexperience, accuracy issues, statistics bloated by playing against porous defenses, and lengthy injury histories. Of the top six QBs, one or two might become "franchise" QBs, one or two will likely become journeyman backups, and the rest will be out of the league in four or five years.
I'm not understanding the point. Allen, Mahomes & Jackson were all very boom or bust. You have to draft a QB at some point to even have a chance. You have to swing.
Fine. I am in favor of taking a "swing" by drafting one at #6, or maybe by moving up to #5 for #70. But getting into a "bidding war" for any of these QBs is a mistake IMO. The good news is that the Giants apparently won't part with their #1 next year as part of any trade.
I am also becoming increasingly convinced that it might be better to simply draft a QB every two or three years in the second or third round in the hope that you find a franchise QB everyone else has overlooked.
2- McCarthy was a winner in college and top recruit and Jones was 17-19 at Duke and a walk-on.
3- McCarthy is being sought by multiple teams and in potential trade ups. Rumored Pats, Vikings, Broncos at minimum. Jones was liked by Giants and probably only team that was gonna take him although Gettleman claimed the Broncos but many dispute that.
4- McCarthy strengths are presnap reads, plays under pressure, throws with anticipation, 3rd downs and long and throwing on run. Jones collapses under pressure (see graph posted on college QBs other day under pressure - he was in a negative category all by himself), never throws on run and is a 1 read QB who checks down.
5- McCarthy had a 9.0 YPA. jones has never topped 6.8 ypa in college or pro.
They are very different prospects. Almost opposite. They also have entirely opposite personalities
I agree they are very different players and there is no doubt that JJM is a better prospect than DJ was. But that doesn't change my view that it would be a significant reach to draft him at six. I love Sy but do not agree with his rating on JJM. I am in Greg Cosell's camp and believe he will be at best a game manager type quarterback. If we are going to reach, I would much prefer a high ceiling guy like Penix.
I guess you will only feel good about adding a QB in free agency. Because your mindset says you only want a sure thing from college. Alas, they don't exist.
So, you'll need Schoen to write a big check to a proven NFL QB that has the class to win playoff games and compete for big trophies.
Agreed..
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1- McCarthy has an 84 (1st rd Y1 starter ) from Sy and Jones had an 80 (rd 2-3) and those are two different categories. McCarthy is the 8th highest grade he gave out in 12 years. Jones would probably rank around 15th or so in grades.
2- McCarthy was a winner in college and top recruit and Jones was 17-19 at Duke and a walk-on.
3- McCarthy is being sought by multiple teams and in potential trade ups. Rumored Pats, Vikings, Broncos at minimum. Jones was liked by Giants and probably only team that was gonna take him although Gettleman claimed the Broncos but many dispute that.
4- McCarthy strengths are presnap reads, plays under pressure, throws with anticipation, 3rd downs and long and throwing on run. Jones collapses under pressure (see graph posted on college QBs other day under pressure - he was in a negative category all by himself), never throws on run and is a 1 read QB who checks down.
5- McCarthy had a 9.0 YPA. jones has never topped 6.8 ypa in college or pro.
They are very different prospects. Almost opposite. They also have entirely opposite personalities
I agree they are very different players and there is no doubt that JJM is a better prospect than DJ was. But that doesn't change my view that it would be a significant reach to draft him at six. I love Sy but do not agree with his rating on JJM. I am in Greg Cosell's camp and believe he will be at best a game manager type quarterback. If we are going to reach, I would much prefer a high ceiling guy like Penix.
Let's see, Greg Cosell compared Josh Rosen to Matt Ryan and loved him. He was pretty critical of Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. How's his track record on QBs?
Maybe they are passing on Maye BECAUSE of what they saw in those six games.
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In comment 16476253 HardTruth said:
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1- McCarthy has an 84 (1st rd Y1 starter ) from Sy and Jones had an 80 (rd 2-3) and those are two different categories. McCarthy is the 8th highest grade he gave out in 12 years. Jones would probably rank around 15th or so in grades.
2- McCarthy was a winner in college and top recruit and Jones was 17-19 at Duke and a walk-on.
3- McCarthy is being sought by multiple teams and in potential trade ups. Rumored Pats, Vikings, Broncos at minimum. Jones was liked by Giants and probably only team that was gonna take him although Gettleman claimed the Broncos but many dispute that.
4- McCarthy strengths are presnap reads, plays under pressure, throws with anticipation, 3rd downs and long and throwing on run. Jones collapses under pressure (see graph posted on college QBs other day under pressure - he was in a negative category all by himself), never throws on run and is a 1 read QB who checks down.
5- McCarthy had a 9.0 YPA. jones has never topped 6.8 ypa in college or pro.
They are very different prospects. Almost opposite. They also have entirely opposite personalities
I agree they are very different players and there is no doubt that JJM is a better prospect than DJ was. But that doesn't change my view that it would be a significant reach to draft him at six. I love Sy but do not agree with his rating on JJM. I am in Greg Cosell's camp and believe he will be at best a game manager type quarterback. If we are going to reach, I would much prefer a high ceiling guy like Penix.
Let's see, Greg Cosell compared Josh Rosen to Matt Ryan and loved him. He was pretty critical of Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. How's his track record on QBs?
Let's see. Sy had Patrick Mahomes at 76 and Josh Rosen at 89. The entire world missed on both Mahomes and Rosen. You have your opinion and I have mine. The great news is, in very short order, just like with Daniel Jones, it will be crystal clear who was right.
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In comment 16476258 AcidTest said:
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teams are yet again apparently more than willing to grossly overpay for the right to draft a "franchise" QB. That might be warranted if any of these QBs could legitimately be compared to Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson, but they can't. They are all "boom or bust" projects whose flashes of brilliance come with substantial flaws, including inexperience, accuracy issues, statistics bloated by playing against porous defenses, and lengthy injury histories. Of the top six QBs, one or two might become "franchise" QBs, one or two will likely become journeyman backups, and the rest will be out of the league in four or five years.
I'm not understanding the point. Allen, Mahomes & Jackson were all very boom or bust. You have to draft a QB at some point to even have a chance. You have to swing.
Fine. I am in favor of taking a "swing" by drafting one at #6, or maybe by moving up to #5 for #70. But getting into a "bidding war" for any of these QBs is a mistake IMO. The good news is that the Giants apparently won't part with their #1 next year as part of any trade.
I am also becoming increasingly convinced that it might be better to simply draft a QB every two or three years in the second or third round in the hope that you find a franchise QB everyone else has overlooked.
That 2025 2nd just pushes you over the brink aye? I'd say the risk is worth the reward for a 2025 2nd and 3rd or pick 70 and 2025 2nd. That's where I draw the line and it sounds like with that we could get JJM or Maye.
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In comment 16476267 The Mike said:
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In comment 16476253 HardTruth said:
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1- McCarthy has an 84 (1st rd Y1 starter ) from Sy and Jones had an 80 (rd 2-3) and those are two different categories. McCarthy is the 8th highest grade he gave out in 12 years. Jones would probably rank around 15th or so in grades.
2- McCarthy was a winner in college and top recruit and Jones was 17-19 at Duke and a walk-on.
3- McCarthy is being sought by multiple teams and in potential trade ups. Rumored Pats, Vikings, Broncos at minimum. Jones was liked by Giants and probably only team that was gonna take him although Gettleman claimed the Broncos but many dispute that.
4- McCarthy strengths are presnap reads, plays under pressure, throws with anticipation, 3rd downs and long and throwing on run. Jones collapses under pressure (see graph posted on college QBs other day under pressure - he was in a negative category all by himself), never throws on run and is a 1 read QB who checks down.
5- McCarthy had a 9.0 YPA. jones has never topped 6.8 ypa in college or pro.
They are very different prospects. Almost opposite. They also have entirely opposite personalities
I agree they are very different players and there is no doubt that JJM is a better prospect than DJ was. But that doesn't change my view that it would be a significant reach to draft him at six. I love Sy but do not agree with his rating on JJM. I am in Greg Cosell's camp and believe he will be at best a game manager type quarterback. If we are going to reach, I would much prefer a high ceiling guy like Penix.
Let's see, Greg Cosell compared Josh Rosen to Matt Ryan and loved him. He was pretty critical of Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. How's his track record on QBs?
Let's see. Sy had Patrick Mahomes at 76 and Josh Rosen at 89. The entire world missed on both Mahomes and Rosen. You have your opinion and I have mine. The great news is, in very short order, just like with Daniel Jones, it will be crystal clear who was right.
True, I'm surprised Cosell is making such sensational statements these days to be honest. He used to always have very hedged and even keeled analysis of QBs. Maybe he's getting a bit more sensational as he gets older.
Draft can't get here soon enough.
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teams are yet again apparently more than willing to grossly overpay for the right to draft a "franchise" QB. That might be warranted if any of these QBs could legitimately be compared to Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson, but they can't. They are all "boom or bust" projects whose flashes of brilliance come with substantial flaws, including inexperience, accuracy issues, statistics bloated by playing against porous defenses, and lengthy injury histories. Of the top six QBs, one or two might become "franchise" QBs, one or two will likely become journeyman backups, and the rest will be out of the league in four or five years.
I guess you will only feel good about adding a QB in free agency. Because your mindset says you only want a sure thing from college. Alas, they don't exist.
So, you'll need Schoen to write a big check to a proven NFL QB that has the class to win playoff games and compete for big trophies.
False. I just said that I am fine taking any of the QBs at #6. I have also said that because of the importance of the position, I would take any of them over any of the "big three" WRs. But trading a boatload of draft capital for any of them IMO. And "any of them" in this case pretty much means JJM or Maye since we aren't getting Williams or Daniels.
Schoen apparently won't give up our #1 next year as part of any trade for JJM or Maye. If you're not willing to give up your #1 then that is a statement that you don't think the QB is a franchise QB.
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In comment 16476258 AcidTest said:
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teams are yet again apparently more than willing to grossly overpay for the right to draft a "franchise" QB. That might be warranted if any of these QBs could legitimately be compared to Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson, but they can't. They are all "boom or bust" projects whose flashes of brilliance come with substantial flaws, including inexperience, accuracy issues, statistics bloated by playing against porous defenses, and lengthy injury histories. Of the top six QBs, one or two might become "franchise" QBs, one or two will likely become journeyman backups, and the rest will be out of the league in four or five years.
I guess you will only feel good about adding a QB in free agency. Because your mindset says you only want a sure thing from college. Alas, they don't exist.
So, you'll need Schoen to write a big check to a proven NFL QB that has the class to win playoff games and compete for big trophies.
False. I just said that I am fine taking any of the QBs at #6. I have also said that because of the importance of the position, I would take any of them over any of the "big three" WRs. But trading a boatload of draft capital for any of them IMO. And "any of them" in this case pretty much means JJM or Maye since we aren't getting Williams or Daniels.
Schoen apparently won't give up our #1 next year as part of any trade for JJM or Maye. If you're not willing to give up your #1 then that is a statement that you don't think the QB is a franchise QB.
But trading a boatload of draft capital for any of them is a mistake IMO.
Take the stud WR or trade back and get a haul of picks to trade up next year for a QB.
+1
We have no idea who the Giants want or do not want. We have no idea the order they have players in and what position they have added importance too.
I think the Giants like Williams (he isn't an option), they like Maye (where they like him is not known) and might or might not be in on JJM..
From there we have no idea if they will be willing to part with a pick next year and his high of pick at if they do.
The way the Giants are designed I would think we are looking for our developmental guy to be behind Lock.. I think Jones has played his last downs here..
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In comment 16476263 Sean said:
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In comment 16476258 AcidTest said:
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teams are yet again apparently more than willing to grossly overpay for the right to draft a "franchise" QB. That might be warranted if any of these QBs could legitimately be compared to Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson, but they can't. They are all "boom or bust" projects whose flashes of brilliance come with substantial flaws, including inexperience, accuracy issues, statistics bloated by playing against porous defenses, and lengthy injury histories. Of the top six QBs, one or two might become "franchise" QBs, one or two will likely become journeyman backups, and the rest will be out of the league in four or five years.
I'm not understanding the point. Allen, Mahomes & Jackson were all very boom or bust. You have to draft a QB at some point to even have a chance. You have to swing.
Fine. I am in favor of taking a "swing" by drafting one at #6, or maybe by moving up to #5 for #70. But getting into a "bidding war" for any of these QBs is a mistake IMO. The good news is that the Giants apparently won't part with their #1 next year as part of any trade.
I am also becoming increasingly convinced that it might be better to simply draft a QB every two or three years in the second or third round in the hope that you find a franchise QB everyone else has overlooked.
That 2025 2nd just pushes you over the brink aye? I'd say the risk is worth the reward for a 2025 2nd and 3rd or pick 70 and 2025 2nd. That's where I draw the line and it sounds like with that we could get JJM or Maye.
Eh. I wouldn't hate it, but I wouldn't trade both day two picks next year to move up. It would have to be #70 this year and our #2 next year. That is the absolute most I would do.
That was the suggestion that GoDeep made. They would trade up to get JJM at 4, but wouldn't take Nabers or trade down even if Maye was there at 6.
He's been labeled consistently as one of the best 3rd down passers as well one of the best grades under pressure. The kid can ball, and he just turned 21. He isn't a finished product whatsoever. For a kid who has a strong arm, great athleticism for your zone reads, and has faced lots of adversity playing in big moments and rival games. Randy Mueller is a big fan of his and has been singing his praises since he's declared. Backs up everything he says.
Talks about all the quarterbacks in this video.
The Giants hired an OC who is supposed to be a QB whisperer, right. So get him a QB who's got athleticism and arm talent so he can mold him into his highest ceiling.
https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1rmGPMDNvZdJN - ( New Window )
Toxic, my greatest nyg fear
Into your lives it will creep
It starts when your always afraid
Step outta line and the nephew - gonna trade you away.
Go Deep said they wouldn't even take Maye if he was there at six. He said the Giants think they have so many holes that they would rather trade down from 6, maybe get a blue chip DT or CB and a WR later.
He said they'd trade up to 4, but only for McCarthy, and he thinks the Pats love McCarthy.
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I work late so can’t read through the comments. You mentioned they have a possible trade up with Cardinals. Is it only if JJ falls to 4, as they wouldn’t want Maye? If NYG made a trade down still in top 10, is WR possible?
Go Deep said they wouldn't even take Maye if he was there at six. He said the Giants think they have so many holes that they would rather trade down from 6, maybe get a blue chip DT or CB and a WR later.
He said they'd trade up to 4, but only for McCarthy, and he thinks the Pats love McCarthy.
Sorry got that wrong, he thinks the Patriots don't like McCarthy OR Maye.
Into your lives it will creep
It starts when your always afraid
Step outta line and the nephew - gonna trade you away.
I'm going to have nightmares.
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In comment 16476290 UGADawgs7 said:
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I work late so can’t read through the comments. You mentioned they have a possible trade up with Cardinals. Is it only if JJ falls to 4, as they wouldn’t want Maye? If NYG made a trade down still in top 10, is WR possible?
Go Deep said they wouldn't even take Maye if he was there at six. He said the Giants think they have so many holes that they would rather trade down from 6, maybe get a blue chip DT or CB and a WR later.
He said they'd trade up to 4, but only for McCarthy, and he thinks the Pats love McCarthy.
Sorry got that wrong, he thinks the Patriots don't like McCarthy OR Maye.
And that they'd rather trade down if they can't get JJM with reasonable tradeup cost to 4 or Nabers at 6 I believe.
No defensive player in this draft class is a blue chip. The Giants need elite talent.
If there's no QB you like, Schoen should take the one of top 3 WRs.
This is all very entertaining, but there is no point getting bent out of shape about this right now.
I don't buy they aren't interested in Maye.
But I also anticipate Maye going at #3 to someone. Patriots, Vikings, Giants.
We shall see.
This is correct.
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I didn't see it answered in the OP but I apologize if it's been answered elsewhere in the thread:
Do we know what the plan is at QB if they pick a WR at 6?
Your worst nightmare. I already asked it. You, bw in dc, christian, and I are headed for a bar.
Ill buy the first round
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Are you saying that if Maye is there at #6, they would pass on him?
Yes. They would use him for trade bait
Yeah, I'm not getting how this is about Mara. I'm confident this is Schoen driven, any owner is going to require sign off on a top ten pick, especially QB.
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In comment 16476151 Go Terps said:
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People can go into a draft saying "we need a WR", "we need an edge rusher", "we need a corner"...
But you can't say "we need a quarterback". You CAN say "we need a quarterback that fits an extremely precise physical, mental, and emotional profile. If this draft doesn't have that guy we can wait."
The Giants are the guy with the associate's degree in English holding out for a job that pays six figures.
What's incredible is that the far majority of BBI did NOT want any part of Daniel Jones leading up to the draft. And now, those same people don't want to move off him unless the perfect QB prospect falls in their lap.
The Giants need an upgrade at QB. They also need a cheaper QB. Maye, McCarthy, Penix & Nix solve that.
And by the way, the thread linked below is an asshat thread from April 2019 linking NYG with Jones. Some reaction.
I didn't mind the Jones pick. Because I believe in taking swings at QB. I just wanted to move on a lot faster. See the Niners. Link - ( New Window )
The best part of BBI is that it is a record and receipt of historical opinions. I actually uttered the phrase on this historical thread that "Gettleman is too smart to do something as stupid as drafting Daniel Jones at six". How utterly wrong I was!!! And I literally just said on today's thread that no GM in the NFL would be dumb enough to pass on Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels at six! Praying I am not wrong again.
Oh and by the way, I feel exactly the same way about JJM today as I did about DJ exactly five years ago. He is a second/third round talent who would be grossly overdrafted at six.
Go back to 1983, when 26 GMs passed on Dan Marino, who threw the ball as well as anyone I've ever seen. If that many GMs could pass on Marino, they sure as hell could pass on Maye.
Taking a QB with minimal research by the worst GM in the NFL at the time is how we ended up with Jones.
Thankfully those circumstances are not the same this year.
No, an idiot for a GM is how we wound up with DJ and SB @#2.
I fully expect JJM to be off the board, therefore I think Nabers will be the pick.
I fully expect JJM to be off the board, therefore I think Nabers will be the pick.
Nabers is what the Vegas odds makers have had as the odds on betting favorite for weeks now. I'd doubt that changes in the week leading up to the draft.
If he has strong conviction on a QB go get him via a trade up otherwise we will always be in rebuild mode unfortunately imo.
Well written and very concise
Great job!
@art_stapleton
Who is privy to Joe Schoen's thinking regarding #NYGiants draft plans?
Here's my best guess at his inner circle, and I'm not even sure he will have shared exact details with this entire group (not in specific order):
John Mara
Brandon Brown
Tim McDonnell
Dennis Hickey
Brian Daboll
Ryan Cowden
Yeah, that's it for me. There are others very involved in the process. But as far as what Joe shares, I don't think it'd go beyond that group.
Something to keep in mind. In 2019, the asshats were all saying defense at 6 and QB at 17.
Start Maye in 2025 with most of your draft capital and healthy cap in tact.
McCarthy would be the opposite of what they are looking for in a franchise QB.
I fully expect JJM to be off the board, therefore I think Nabers will be the pick.
Again, based on what the “wink wink” was by the OP, it is way more believable that the Giants’ draft plan is actually:
1) Drake Maye
2) Rome Odunze
3) Trade down
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I read the whole thread... GoDeep said if JJM is gone and Nabers is there... they will take Nabers.
I fully expect JJM to be off the board, therefore I think Nabers will be the pick.
Again, based on what the “wink wink” was by the OP, it is way more believable that the Giants’ draft plan is actually:
1) Drake Maye
2) Rome Odunze
3) Trade down
RE: With Maye and Nabers as my top choices
GoDeep13 : 4/19/2024 5:55 pm : link : reply
In comment 16475787 UberAlias said:
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I REALLY hope that you're wrong, lol. But love that you're sharing!
They would take Nabers at 6 if there so don’t be sad just yet!
You deserve to have Daniel Jones trotting back out there for season number 6 and you deserve the fucking shit fest that is sure to follow. You can keep repeating this same bullshit over and over again all you want but bw is right. If they honestly looked at ALL of the QBs available not only in this draft but also QBs that were available in FA/trades this offseason and came away thinking NONE of them were worth moving on from Jones for, then they absolutely suck at their jobs and they deserve the same outcome as you do
You’ve got the wrong guy. I’m perfectly happy to replace Jones. I’m also not so myopic about it to believe that any QB will be an improvement. The idea that we have to get a QB is what got us Jones.
When you know that Jones isn't your solution and/or in your future plans at QB then you should start taking some measurable risks to replace him. The risk of doing nothing has to be worse than taking some swings with prospects to find a better starting QB.
Even last year, Schoen and Daboll should have learned when the backup QBs played that the offense's and their respective performances weren't all that much different than when their $160M man played. You can even argue it was better throwing the ball downfield and passing TDs. And these were clear-cut backup NFL players.
They simply have to TRY to get better at QB.
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Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
Who is privy to Joe Schoen's thinking regarding #NYGiants draft plans?
Here's my best guess at his inner circle, and I'm not even sure he will have shared exact details with this entire group (not in specific order):
John Mara
Brandon Brown
Tim McDonnell
Dennis Hickey
Brian Daboll
Ryan Cowden
Yeah, that's it for me. There are others very involved in the process. But as far as what Joe shares, I don't think it'd go beyond that group.
Something to keep in mind. In 2019, the asshats were all saying defense at 6 and QB at 17.
They switched it very late due to worry Jones wouldn't make it to #17. I got the word a couple nights before the draft but didn't think they'd pick him at #6. Disbelief.
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I read the whole thread... GoDeep said if JJM is gone and Nabers is there... they will take Nabers.
I fully expect JJM to be off the board, therefore I think Nabers will be the pick.
Again, based on what the “wink wink” was by the OP, it is way more believable that the Giants’ draft plan is actually:
1) Drake Maye
2) Rome Odunze
3) Trade down
It never ceases to amaze me how all the signs (to you) always point to the Giants having the same exact player evaluations as you.
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In comment 16476362 KingBlue said:
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I read the whole thread... GoDeep said if JJM is gone and Nabers is there... they will take Nabers.
I fully expect JJM to be off the board, therefore I think Nabers will be the pick.
Again, based on what the “wink wink” was by the OP, it is way more believable that the Giants’ draft plan is actually:
1) Drake Maye
2) Rome Odunze
3) Trade down
RE: With Maye and Nabers as my top choices
GoDeep13 : 4/19/2024 5:55 pm : link : reply
In comment 16475787 UberAlias said:
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I REALLY hope that you're wrong, lol. But love that you're sharing!
They would take Nabers at 6 if there so don’t be sad just yet!
Yes but if you keep reading he also says he is allowed to say only what he has said, not some other stuff he seems to know, and this could very well be misdirection. Him, or Eric, even go wink-wink, so we don't know if he was told this as fact or misdirection. Plus other asshats on this thread were told no way we take JJM. So who really knows.
Something to keep in mind. In 2019, the asshats were all saying defense at 6 and QB at 17.
With what we know now,that was the plan until the last second.
I'm right there with you, Eric but something tells me GD13 is on to something. I'm warming up to trading down and accumulating more picks. Also, I am curious to see if Daboll can get something out of Lock as I think he could very well be the starter on day 1.
fwiw to Sean’s 8:40 AM Schoen mentions Hickey in his pre-draft presser. The involvement in Schoen’s assessment of how to approach this inflection draft (we hope) of multiple professionals allows me some confidence they will make the best decisions given the constraints, e.g., Vikings and draft capital.
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Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
Who is privy to Joe Schoen's thinking regarding #NYGiants draft plans?
Here's my best guess at his inner circle, and I'm not even sure he will have shared exact details with this entire group (not in specific order):
John Mara
Brandon Brown
Tim McDonnell
Dennis Hickey
Brian Daboll
Ryan Cowden
Yeah, that's it for me. There are others very involved in the process. But as far as what Joe shares, I don't think it'd go beyond that group.
Something to keep in mind. In 2019, the asshats were all saying defense at 6 and QB at 17.
They switched it very late due to worry Jones wouldn't make it to #17. I got the word a couple nights before the draft but didn't think they'd pick him at #6. Disbelief.
This is just unbelievable. I put more care into drafting a team in Madden.
We are currently entering into year 3 of the current organization....they should not be responsible for the previous decade.....as most of the current leaders were not here.
+1
Schoen/Daboll were brought due to their success building a top NFL offense in Buffalo, centered in the passing game. Yet if this rumor is true, They will have taken ZERO swings on an offensive skill player in the first two rounds other than an overdrafted gadget guy in 2022. They need to stop hiding behind Gettleman guys on offense, whether it’s Jones, Slayton, or Barkley - I thought letting Barkley go was as major step in an overhaul but apparently not.
You say there’s too many holes in the roster? Well, the time for filling holes was Schoen’s first two years at the helm, where he had a surplus of picks that have mostly turned out to be question marks or simply have been traded. No more holes excuses, get some actual difference makers.
You say they need to build the trenches? That’s what the OL signings and Burns trade was for. Plus, trench building is not what Schoen and Daboll are even known for! If we want a big tough 80s cliche team with anonymous guys at the skill positions, just put the Titans people in charge.
They switched it very late due to worry Jones wouldn't make it to #17. I got the word a couple nights before the draft but didn't think they'd pick him at #6. Disbelief.
Josh Allen was sitting there at 6 and, I’m guessing in most all our minds, he was to be the pick, felt very good about that. gobsmacked
Or get neither one..
Take a WR
or Dont take a WR and trade down... unless no one wants to trade up..
Got it.. crystal clear..
The Giants will not be able to pull off a trade with NE because the Pats like what Minn has to offer (two 1sts this year) so they are boxed out.
If the Giants target (Maye) makes it to 4, they will explore trading up. AZ is a good partner because they ideally would stay in range for one of the big 3 WR.
If the Giants land a QB, they will want a vet WR - which leads us to Aiyuk, Higgins, or Hopkins - which I imagine is a cheaper alternative if they cannot swing a trade for one of the younger guys.
My best case scenario is walking away from this draft with Maye, Aiyuk, and Sinnott or Benson.
The Giants will not be able to pull off a trade with NE because the Pats like what Minn has to offer (two 1sts this year) so they are boxed out.
If the Giants target (Maye) makes it to 4, they will explore trading up. AZ is a good partner because they ideally would stay in range for one of the big 3 WR.
If the Giants land a QB, they will want a vet WR - which leads us to Aiyuk, Higgins, or Hopkins - which I imagine is a cheaper alternative if they cannot swing a trade for one of the younger guys.
My best case scenario is walking away from this draft with Maye, Aiyuk, and Sinnott or Benson.
This is a quality take.
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….
They switched it very late due to worry Jones wouldn't make it to #17. I got the word a couple nights before the draft but didn't think they'd pick him at #6. Disbelief.
Josh Allen was sitting there at 6 and, I’m guessing in most all our minds, he was to be the pick, felt very good about that. gobsmacked
Then they would have traded up for DJ and not gotten Dexy. The smart move would have been Allen and Dexy, but we know Gettleman wasn't smart.
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I respect the hell out of GoDeep, but I have a hard time with passing at Maye at #6 given the state of the QB room.
I'm right there with you, Eric but something tells me GD13 is on to something. I'm warming up to trading down and accumulating more picks. Also, I am curious to see if Daboll can get something out of Lock as I think he could very well be the starter on day 1.
No problem with the trade down. Possible problem with passing on Maye if he's there at #6. We have to get the QB this year or next. Obviously don't take a guy you aren't thrilled with. Not sure I buy they don't like Maye. I heard the opposite just a couple of months ago.
The Giants will not be able to pull off a trade with NE because the Pats like what Minn has to offer (two 1sts this year) so they are boxed out.
If the Giants target (Maye) makes it to 4, they will explore trading up. AZ is a good partner because they ideally would stay in range for one of the big 3 WR.
If the Giants land a QB, they will want a vet WR - which leads us to Aiyuk, Higgins, or Hopkins - which I imagine is a cheaper alternative if they cannot swing a trade for one of the younger guys.
My best case scenario is walking away from this draft with Maye, Aiyuk, and Sinnott or Benson.
If we trade up for Maye at 4 and trade for Aiyuk, we won't have a pick for Sinnott or Benson.
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In comment 16475809 Eric from BBI said:
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I respect the hell out of GoDeep, but I have a hard time with passing at Maye at #6 given the state of the QB room.
I'm right there with you, Eric but something tells me GD13 is on to something. I'm warming up to trading down and accumulating more picks. Also, I am curious to see if Daboll can get something out of Lock as I think he could very well be the starter on day 1.
No problem with the trade down. Possible problem with passing on Maye if he's there at #6. We have to get the QB this year or next. Obviously don't take a guy you aren't thrilled with. Not sure I buy they don't like Maye. I heard the opposite just a couple of months ago.
Schefter is suggesting Maye could slide and be there at 6, did anyone see that?
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I didn't see it answered in the OP but I apologize if it's been answered elsewhere in the thread:
Do we know what the plan is at QB if they pick a WR at 6?
Godeep said Rd 1 QB or punt to next year.
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In comment 16476205 Sean said:
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In comment 16476151 Go Terps said:
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People can go into a draft saying "we need a WR", "we need an edge rusher", "we need a corner"...
But you can't say "we need a quarterback". You CAN say "we need a quarterback that fits an extremely precise physical, mental, and emotional profile. If this draft doesn't have that guy we can wait."
The Giants are the guy with the associate's degree in English holding out for a job that pays six figures.
What's incredible is that the far majority of BBI did NOT want any part of Daniel Jones leading up to the draft. And now, those same people don't want to move off him unless the perfect QB prospect falls in their lap.
The Giants need an upgrade at QB. They also need a cheaper QB. Maye, McCarthy, Penix & Nix solve that.
And by the way, the thread linked below is an asshat thread from April 2019 linking NYG with Jones. Some reaction.
I didn't mind the Jones pick. Because I believe in taking swings at QB. I just wanted to move on a lot faster. See the Niners. Link - ( New Window )
The best part of BBI is that it is a record and receipt of historical opinions. I actually uttered the phrase on this historical thread that "Gettleman is too smart to do something as stupid as drafting Daniel Jones at six". How utterly wrong I was!!! And I literally just said on today's thread that no GM in the NFL would be dumb enough to pass on Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels at six! Praying I am not wrong again.
Oh and by the way, I feel exactly the same way about JJM today as I did about DJ exactly five years ago. He is a second/third round talent who would be grossly overdrafted at six.
Go back to 1983, when 26 GMs passed on Dan Marino, who threw the ball as well as anyone I've ever seen. If that many GMs could pass on Marino, they sure as hell could pass on Maye.
You are absolutely right! To this day, that is the most head scratching draft day miss I have ever seen. It was shocking he wasn't the first quarterback off the board in the first round, let alone the last. I was pounding the table hard for Marino and instead we took Terry Kinard. Good player, but yet another gruesome "reach for need" with Marino sitting there.
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In comment 16476235 The Mike said:
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In comment 16476205 Sean said:
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In comment 16476151 Go Terps said:
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People can go into a draft saying "we need a WR", "we need an edge rusher", "we need a corner"...
But you can't say "we need a quarterback". You CAN say "we need a quarterback that fits an extremely precise physical, mental, and emotional profile. If this draft doesn't have that guy we can wait."
The Giants are the guy with the associate's degree in English holding out for a job that pays six figures.
What's incredible is that the far majority of BBI did NOT want any part of Daniel Jones leading up to the draft. And now, those same people don't want to move off him unless the perfect QB prospect falls in their lap.
The Giants need an upgrade at QB. They also need a cheaper QB. Maye, McCarthy, Penix & Nix solve that.
And by the way, the thread linked below is an asshat thread from April 2019 linking NYG with Jones. Some reaction.
I didn't mind the Jones pick. Because I believe in taking swings at QB. I just wanted to move on a lot faster. See the Niners. Link - ( New Window )
The best part of BBI is that it is a record and receipt of historical opinions. I actually uttered the phrase on this historical thread that "Gettleman is too smart to do something as stupid as drafting Daniel Jones at six". How utterly wrong I was!!! And I literally just said on today's thread that no GM in the NFL would be dumb enough to pass on Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels at six! Praying I am not wrong again.
Oh and by the way, I feel exactly the same way about JJM today as I did about DJ exactly five years ago. He is a second/third round talent who would be grossly overdrafted at six.
Go back to 1983, when 26 GMs passed on Dan Marino, who threw the ball as well as anyone I've ever seen. If that many GMs could pass on Marino, they sure as hell could pass on Maye.
You are absolutely right! To this day, that is the most head scratching draft day miss I have ever seen. It was shocking he wasn't the first quarterback off the board in the first round, let alone the last. I was pounding the table hard for Marino and instead we took Terry Kinard. Good player, but yet another gruesome "reach for need" with Marino sitting there.
He was a partner that liked cochise, I thought that was the reason he slid?
The Giants will not be able to pull off a trade with NE because the Pats like what Minn has to offer (two 1sts this year) so they are boxed out.
If the Giants target (Maye) makes it to 4, they will explore trading up. AZ is a good partner because they ideally would stay in range for one of the big 3 WR.
If the Giants land a QB, they will want a vet WR - which leads us to Aiyuk, Higgins, or Hopkins - which I imagine is a cheaper alternative if they cannot swing a trade for one of the younger guys.
My best case scenario is walking away from this draft with Maye, Aiyuk, and Sinnott or Benson.
I agree with this approach. Maye or Nabers would be the most sensible outcome for the first pick, with a trade up to four likely required to get Maye if the Pats do not take him. If it is Nabers at six, though, it sounds like a quarterback is then off the table and we are running it back with DJ for a sixth year. Hopefully they will still consider moving up to take a Penix or take a Milton as a development pick on day three. Hard to believe they will not take a quarterback at any point in this draft.
Also, what if we have a deal in place with AZ and we are happy with either Maye, JJM or in the unlikely event Daniels is there? That's one scenario where I could see GoDeep being given the green light to post this. Maybe the part he's leaving out is that we have a deal in place to get to 4 and they like JJM+Maye both in the same tier? Perhaps they prefer Maye slightly to JJM and their trying to influence that, but they are good with either at the reported cost of pick 6, 70 and 2025 1st. That's one of the only scenarios in which I could see him being the greenlight to leak this info. In that situation, leaking this info can't hurt us if we are set to get either one.
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publicly on an internet website? Is letting the world know they we don't want Maye really useful?
I won’t say you or right or wrong. I will even potentially undercut myself by saying I have been told what I CAN say and what I CAN’T say.
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In comment 16475807 PatersonPlank said:
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publicly on an internet website? Is letting the world know they we don't want Maye really useful?
I won’t say you or right or wrong. I will even potentially undercut myself by saying I have been told what I CAN say and what I CAN’T say.
Wink, wink, nod, nod.
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You are wrong on the Vikings, however. They are ALL IN on Maye. And if they trade up, it will be for him.
Love to hear this, if we could get JJM without having to trade a king's ransom that has been my ideal first round for months. Are you the one with the Vikings insider friend?
Yes.
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In comment 16475850 Sky King said:
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You are wrong on the Vikings, however. They are ALL IN on Maye. And if they trade up, it will be for him.
Love to hear this, if we could get JJM without having to trade a king's ransom that has been my ideal first round for months. Are you the one with the Vikings insider friend?
Yes.
Then we will see if GoDeep's source was telling outright lies or not soon.
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In comment 16476121 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16475850 Sky King said:
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You are wrong on the Vikings, however. They are ALL IN on Maye. And if they trade up, it will be for him.
Love to hear this, if we could get JJM without having to trade a king's ransom that has been my ideal first round for months. Are you the one with the Vikings insider friend?
Yes.
Then we will see if GoDeep's source was telling outright lies or not soon.
His source might not be telling lies. The person his source got the info from could be or the team changed directions.
Leading up to the 2014 NFL Draft my friend was in a lower position than he currently is. He told me around 3 weeks prior to the draft that his team was going to select a player and it was a done deal provided the player was available at their pick. Maybe an hour before the draft he sent me corrected info saying they were choosing a different player (They did in fact pass on the original player and take the 2nd player) So did they really change directions in the hour leading up to the draft or was the original info given to him complete bullshit? He's someone that's involved in the draft process, but up until a couple hours before the draft he had no clue who his own team was going to take.
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In comment 16476857 Sky King said:
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In comment 16476121 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16475850 Sky King said:
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You are wrong on the Vikings, however. They are ALL IN on Maye. And if they trade up, it will be for him.
Love to hear this, if we could get JJM without having to trade a king's ransom that has been my ideal first round for months. Are you the one with the Vikings insider friend?
Yes.
Then we will see if GoDeep's source was telling outright lies or not soon.
His source might not be telling lies. The person his source got the info from could be or the team changed directions.
Leading up to the 2014 NFL Draft my friend was in a lower position than he currently is. He told me around 3 weeks prior to the draft that his team was going to select a player and it was a done deal provided the player was available at their pick. Maybe an hour before the draft he sent me corrected info saying they were choosing a different player (They did in fact pass on the original player and take the 2nd player) So did they really change directions in the hour leading up to the draft or was the original info given to him complete bullshit? He's someone that's involved in the draft process, but up until a couple hours before the draft he had no clue who his own team was going to take.
True, I didn't write that correctly. I should have said we will see how much smoke there is here soon. I appreciate the correction.
Any link to this? I must have missed it.
Good points on both posts. We had some near losses and near wins that canceled out, but failing to trade Saquon really hurt our chances at a higher pick. That wad dumb.
Is someone really going to take him at #3 ahead of Maye?
The NFL drafts the most talented college players. What separates players in the NFL is the ability to handles adversity. It is why it is so hard to project and evaluate college. In most cases these kids have been the best players on their respective teams their entire lives. In many cases it has been easy for t hem. they can just play and everyone loves them.
It builds low character. When these low character dudes are suddenly punched in the mouth every day by people as good or better, most of them fold. This is amplified at the QB position. I don’t get the interviews but my suspicion is the guy most ready to handle the NFL is McCarthy IMO and it is not close. His age is a big plus. The ceiling is a cleaner Brett Favre.
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Are you saying that if Maye is there at #6, they would pass on him?
Yes. They would use him for trade bait
It was GoDeep13 not prettyrickey that said this. My bad