Hello all. I’ve finally been given the OK to post SOME of what has been in the works with the draft around the corner. This post also includes some information regarding the TOP 10. Let’s get started.
- It is fully believed that the 1st two picks will be Caleb Williams and Jayden Daniels respectively. Conversations have already been had with Daniels representatives and the Commanders FO. They have told Daniels that he is the pick.
- The Patriots are highest on (Caleb Williams assumed not available) Daniels, followed by Michael Penix Jr. and Bo Nix. They don’t like the inconsistency they see from Drake Maye and are scared only the lack of volume shown by McCarthy. They want a QB that is mature and tested. Someone they feel comfortable playing Year 1 and can execute at a high level. If Daniels is gone, the Patriots seem keen on trading down. However, they seem to be less likely to trade with the Giants as they value having multiple picks in the 2024 draft rather than future 2025 picks (which would bode well for the Vikings). While they need help at WR, they are likely to pass up one of the top options for more draft capital and one of Penix/Nix.
- If the Patriots trade out with Minnesota, the strong belief now is that Minnesota would go with JJ McCarthy over Drake Maye at 3. Kevin O’ Connell is said to like McCarthy’s ability to efficiently read defenses and properly distribute the ball to the correct read. McCarthy also has the arm strength to challenge all parts of the field. It’s said the Vikings are throwing the smokescreen that they like Maye as a way not to alarm the Giants, who many believe want McCarthy over Maye as well.
- The Giants have seemingly boxed out of #3. But they have a good shot at a trade to #4 as GM Ossenfort doesn’t want to trade out of the top 8. Arizona has a good haul of picks as is, but they would take a slight trade back to #6 if it meant an extra pick or two. (Reportedly it would take #6, #70, and a 2025 2nd)
- The Giants HAVE been throwing QB smokescreens and it’s viewed that they ideally want McCarthy over Maye as well. They have been using the Eli connection and the Josh Allen comps to lead teams to believe they want Maye via trade up, however, they see where Josh Allen was as a prospect and where Drake Maye is a prospect as vastly different. Allen famously didn’t have a QB coach during his time at Wyoming and was strictly succeeding off pure athletic ability. Maye has had coaching and tutelage, yet his fundamentals and processing are notably off compared to others in the class.
The belief that is building around McCarthy is that Harbaugh kind of handcuffed him a bit in Michigan’s offense. “He routinely had to convert 3rd and 5+ when he was called on to throw and he ranks right there with Caleb Williams in those situations.”
- if McCarthy, Nabers, and MHJ are off the board, the Giants would rather trade back and accumulate more picks. They like Rome Odunze, but would rather more picks to fill other areas and taking another option later in the draft at WR.
- In a trade down scenario the Giants strongly favor Quinyon Mitchell and DTs Johnny Newton and Byron Murphy.
- If the Giants can get a QB in the first, they will attempt to flip a pick for a Vet WR (Brandon Aiyuk, Tee Higgins, DeAndre Hopkins)
I should be getting one more check in before the draft.
Its career suicide for Schoen and he knows it.
The move up for MAYE ONLY would be for some combination of 2’s and 3’s over the next couple years.
Taking a QB with minimal research by the worst GM in the NFL at the time is how we ended up with Jones.
Thankfully those circumstances are not the same this year.
If we actually like both Maye and JJM (hence the contradictory info and smokescreens), then the smart move is to trade with AZ for pick 6, 70 and a 2025. Say Minnesota trades a king's ransom for Maye at 3, we trade up with AZ for JJM and NE takes Nix at 11. Everyone's happy. This is how I see it playing out, but with JJM and Maye being interchangeable though I do believe Minnesota wants Maye and we would be happy with JJM at 4 for a modest trade up price.
We would then have our 2nd round pick to flip for Aiyuk with our 5th and a conditional 2025 pick as well say a 4th that could become a 3rd. This would be ideal to me.
But you can't say "we need a quarterback". You CAN say "we need a quarterback that fits an extremely precise physical, mental, and emotional profile. If this draft doesn't have that guy we can wait."
The Giants are the guy with the associate's degree in English holding out for a job that pays six figures.
What's incredible is that the far majority of BBI did NOT want any part of Daniel Jones leading up to the draft. And now, those same people don't want to move off him unless the perfect QB prospect falls in their lap.
The Giants need an upgrade at QB. They also need a cheaper QB. Maye, McCarthy, Penix & Nix solve that.
And by the way, the thread linked below is an asshat thread from April 2019 linking NYG with Jones. Some reaction.
I didn't mind the Jones pick. Because I believe in taking swings at QB. I just wanted to move on a lot faster. See the Niners.
Link - ( New Window )
that being said.. there is just something about Maye I dont like..
Taking QB's is risky, but you can't let one mistake prevent you from ever taking another chance at the position.
x2
By chance are you a carpenter that works for the Mara’s?
Taking QB's is risky, but you can't let one mistake prevent you from ever taking another chance at the position.
This is the problem with needing a conviction or to fall in love
And we you tend to do so when you are desperate. The Giants passed on QB in 2018 and we were desperate in 2019. I’m hoping we don’t repeat history.
This is all very entertaining, but there is no point getting bent out of shape about this right now.
I don't buy they aren't interested in Maye.
But I also anticipate Maye going at #3 to someone. Patriots, Vikings, Giants.
We shall see.
Take the stud WR or trade back and get a haul of picks to trade up next year for a QB.
Is someone really going to take him at #3 ahead of Maye?
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The don't want McCarthy. If not Maye they want a WR. I'm not a jerk trolling for shits and giggles. I'm gonna say again. The source is someone who is involved with the Giants draft plans
By chance are you a carpenter that works for the Mara’s?
I'm hoping we like both of them and AZ indeed would do the trade with us for 6, 70 and 2025 2nd. Then we will undoubtedly get Maye or JJM, barring any surprise pick in the top 2.
Get the Hamster Ready ( Joe Schoen voice )
Is the hamster wheel greased for Thursday?
I can’t see them passing on Maye at 6.
Or maybe they are fine with either at 4, but neither at 3? The difference between reported trade up to 4 vs trade up to 3 is vast. I predicted pick 6, 2025 2nd and 3rd for pick 4 and I believe AZ would trade with us for that over any other options to secure Nabers or MHJ. If we like both JJM and Maye, then we could potentially secure the QB of the future for pick 6, 70 and 2025 2nd. Sign me up for either of them at that cost (I'd prefer JJM, but it would be great if they were ok with either for that cost).
Woodstock, Giantgrit, Ralph Vacchiano: Maye
Am I right? Who am I missing?
This smells like Maras vs Schoen/Daboll
Take the stud WR or trade back and get a haul of picks to trade up next year for a QB.
Jones is such a liability that if JS is planning on taking a QB next year he may not be around to do so
"They're not going to pass on a QB. That's bullshit."
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they’re automatically replacing him this year. It means he won’t be on the team in 2025. He will be on the team this year regardless. The worst thing they can do is reach for a QB just to take one. If they love Maye or McCarthy, go get him. But if they miss out on them, and they don’t like Penix or Nix, you can’t waste a 1st rd pick on a QB you don’t have conviction in. We will be in the same position we’ve been in the past 5-6 years. And if Daboll/Schoen get fired and a new regime takes over they might not like Penix or Nix and again we will be in this situation.
Take the stud WR or trade back and get a haul of picks to trade up next year for a QB.
Jones is such a liability that if JS is planning on taking a QB next year he may not be around to do so
Who is this QB he is planning on taking and at what draft pick?
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Ryan Dunleavy, Connor Hughes, Peter Schrager, Godeep13: Mccarthy
Woodstock, Giantgrit, Ralph Vacchiano: Maye
Am I right? Who am I missing?
This smells like Maras vs Schoen/Daboll
Haha good point. Maye: Mara, JJM:Schdabs? Or visa versa?
"They're not going to pass on a QB. That's bullshit."
Love it. My theory is they like both JJM or Maye at 4 for the reasonable cost reported. Then they can't lose on their QB pursuit.
In any event, the guy in the supermarket seems to think we are going Ray Finkle at 6, he’s good friends with Marino.
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People can go into a draft saying "we need a WR", "we need an edge rusher", "we need a corner"...
But you can't say "we need a quarterback". You CAN say "we need a quarterback that fits an extremely precise physical, mental, and emotional profile. If this draft doesn't have that guy we can wait."
The Giants are the guy with the associate's degree in English holding out for a job that pays six figures.
What's incredible is that the far majority of BBI did NOT want any part of Daniel Jones leading up to the draft. And now, those same people don't want to move off him unless the perfect QB prospect falls in their lap.
The Giants need an upgrade at QB. They also need a cheaper QB. Maye, McCarthy, Penix & Nix solve that.
And by the way, the thread linked below is an asshat thread from April 2019 linking NYG with Jones. Some reaction.
I didn't mind the Jones pick. Because I believe in taking swings at QB. I just wanted to move on a lot faster. See the Niners. Link - ( New Window )
The best part of BBI is that it is a record and receipt of historical opinions. I actually uttered the phrase on this historical thread that "Gettleman is too smart to do something as stupid as drafting Daniel Jones at six". How utterly wrong I was!!! And I literally just said on today's thread that no GM in the NFL would be dumb enough to pass on Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels at six! Praying I am not wrong again.
Oh and by the way, I feel exactly the same way about JJM today as I did about DJ exactly five years ago. He is a second/third round talent who would be grossly overdrafted at six.
"They're not going to pass on a QB. That's bullshit."
I agree. The logic says QB. The actions say QB. I think either Maye or McCarthy will be a Giant. I do think Schoen is in an intense poker game right now.
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Or maybe they are fine with either at 4, but neither at 3? The difference between reported trade up to 4 vs trade up to 3 is vast. I predicted pick 6, 2025 2nd and 3rd for pick 4 and I believe AZ would trade with us for that over any other options to secure Nabers or MHJ. If we like both JJM and Maye, then we could potentially secure the QB of the future for pick 6, 70 and 2025 2nd. Sign me up for either of them at that cost (I'd prefer JJM, but it would be great if they were ok with either for that cost).
Would think cost of #4 is considerably lighter than #3, given the info out there. Vikes are the fly in the ointment.
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Mrs. BBI just weighed in...
"They're not going to pass on a QB. That's bullshit."
I agree. The logic says QB. The actions say QB. I think either Maye or McCarthy will be a Giant. I do think Schoen is in an intense poker game right now.
I agree, I bet he has them in the same tier together after CW/JD and he will take whichever is there at 4.
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In comment 16476151 Go Terps said:
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People can go into a draft saying "we need a WR", "we need an edge rusher", "we need a corner"...
But you can't say "we need a quarterback". You CAN say "we need a quarterback that fits an extremely precise physical, mental, and emotional profile. If this draft doesn't have that guy we can wait."
The Giants are the guy with the associate's degree in English holding out for a job that pays six figures.
What's incredible is that the far majority of BBI did NOT want any part of Daniel Jones leading up to the draft. And now, those same people don't want to move off him unless the perfect QB prospect falls in their lap.
The Giants need an upgrade at QB. They also need a cheaper QB. Maye, McCarthy, Penix & Nix solve that.
And by the way, the thread linked below is an asshat thread from April 2019 linking NYG with Jones. Some reaction.
I didn't mind the Jones pick. Because I believe in taking swings at QB. I just wanted to move on a lot faster. See the Niners. Link - ( New Window )
The best part of BBI is that it is a record and receipt of historical opinions. I actually uttered the phrase on this historical thread that "Gettleman is too smart to do something as stupid as drafting Daniel Jones at six". How utterly wrong I was!!! And I literally just said on today's thread that no GM in the NFL would be dumb enough to pass on Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels at six! Praying I am not wrong again.
Oh and by the way, I feel exactly the same way about JJM today as I did about DJ exactly five years ago. He is a second/third round talent who would be grossly overdrafted at six.
Ya took the words out of my mouth
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Ryan Dunleavy, Connor Hughes, Peter Schrager, Godeep13: Mccarthy
Woodstock, Giantgrit, Ralph Vacchiano: Maye
Am I right? Who am I missing?
This smells like Maras vs Schoen/Daboll
For anyone doubting this possibility just remember that there are Tim McDonnell text messages to Brian Flores that are published in the lawsuit
Per Ralph V
The Flores lawsuit states that Tim McDonnell, the Giants' co-director of player personnel and John Mara's nephew was the first to reach out to Flores, on the day Joe Judge was fired. He set up Flores' talk with John. And he later texted Flores to “come in and win the fng job.”
Why just Daniels at 2?
If Maye goes 2, let’s presume Daniels goes 3 and McCarthy is still on board (and it’s possible that Vikings even trade up here for Maye and take them out of the equation.
If McCarthy goes 2 (seems unlikely but there are some new developments there), then say Pats go Daniels and Maye is on board.
2- McCarthy was a winner in college and top recruit and Jones was 17-19 at Duke and a walk-on.
3- McCarthy is being sought by multiple teams and in potential trade ups. Rumored Pats, Vikings, Broncos at minimum. Jones was liked by Giants and probably only team that was gonna take him although Gettleman claimed the Broncos but many dispute that.
4- McCarthy strengths are presnap reads, plays under pressure, throws with anticipation, 3rd downs and long and throwing on run. Jones collapses under pressure (see graph posted on college QBs other day under pressure - he was in a negative category all by himself), never throws on run and is a 1 read QB who checks down.
5- McCarthy had a 9.0 YPA. jones has never topped 6.8 ypa in college or pro.
They are very different prospects. Almost opposite. They also have entirely opposite personalities
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Giants will have their shot at a QB. Are they prepared to pay the price? If it's no, then the BBI bender begins.
Why just Daniels at 2?
If Maye goes 2, let’s presume Daniels goes 3 and McCarthy is still on board (and it’s possible that Vikings even trade up here for Maye and take them out of the equation.
If McCarthy goes 2 (seems unlikely but there are some new developments there), then say Pats go Daniels and Maye is on board.
This is my hope, that they like both Maye and JJM and have a deal in place with AZ. I'd prefer JJM, but either would be a win at that price to me.
2- McCarthy was a winner in college and top recruit and Jones was 17-19 at Duke and a walk-on.
3- McCarthy is being sought by multiple teams and in potential trade ups. Rumored Pats, Vikings, Broncos at minimum. Jones was liked by Giants and probably only team that was gonna take him although Gettleman claimed the Broncos but many dispute that.
4- McCarthy strengths are presnap reads, plays under pressure, throws with anticipation, 3rd downs and long and throwing on run. Jones collapses under pressure (see graph posted on college QBs other day under pressure - he was in a negative category all by himself), never throws on run and is a 1 read QB who checks down.
5- McCarthy had a 9.0 YPA. jones has never topped 6.8 ypa in college or pro.
They are very different prospects. Almost opposite. They also have entirely opposite personalities
I agree, I think JJM is the anti-Jones. Jones biggest weakness has always been his mind isn't sharp and quick enough with the 2 seconds or less you get to react and make a good decision in the NFL. This is a strength of JJM's.
2- McCarthy was a winner in college and top recruit and Jones was 17-19 at Duke and a walk-on.
3- McCarthy is being sought by multiple teams and in potential trade ups. Rumored Pats, Vikings, Broncos at minimum. Jones was liked by Giants and probably only team that was gonna take him although Gettleman claimed the Broncos but many dispute that.
4- McCarthy strengths are presnap reads, plays under pressure, throws with anticipation, 3rd downs and long and throwing on run. Jones collapses under pressure (see graph posted on college QBs other day under pressure - he was in a negative category all by himself), never throws on run and is a 1 read QB who checks down.
5- McCarthy had a 9.0 YPA. jones has never topped 6.8 ypa in college or pro.
They are very different prospects. Almost opposite. They also have entirely opposite personalities
I'd say Maye is closer to DJ honestly. His issue is how he responds to pressure, whether it's a mental or mechanical break down I'm not sure. My fear is thst it's mental. He has a tendency to lock onto a read and make mistakes under pressure.
I'm not understanding the point. Allen, Mahomes & Jackson were all very boom or bust. You have to draft a QB at some point to even have a chance. You have to swing.
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teams are yet again apparently more than willing to grossly overpay for the right to draft a "franchise" QB. That might be warranted if any of these QBs could legitimately be compared to Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson, but they can't. They are all "boom or bust" projects whose flashes of brilliance come with substantial flaws, including inexperience, accuracy issues, statistics bloated by playing against porous defenses, and lengthy injury histories. Of the top six QBs, one or two might become "franchise" QBs, one or two will likely become journeyman backups, and the rest will be out of the league in four or five years.
I'm not understanding the point. Allen, Mahomes & Jackson were all very boom or bust. You have to draft a QB at some point to even have a chance. You have to swing.
I think he's saying the smart move would be to take either JJM or Maye at 4 vs paying a potentially franchise crushing haul for pick 3 when it's such a risky endeavor.
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teams are yet again apparently more than willing to grossly overpay for the right to draft a "franchise" QB. That might be warranted if any of these QBs could legitimately be compared to Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson, but they can't. They are all "boom or bust" projects whose flashes of brilliance come with substantial flaws, including inexperience, accuracy issues, statistics bloated by playing against porous defenses, and lengthy injury histories. Of the top six QBs, one or two might become "franchise" QBs, one or two will likely become journeyman backups, and the rest will be out of the league in four or five years.
I'm not understanding the point. Allen, Mahomes & Jackson were all very boom or bust. You have to draft a QB at some point to even have a chance. You have to swing.
I should add maybe Daniels at 4, but that is almost a 0% possibility in my mind. We can get one of them at 4 100% and likely for a vastly more reasonable cost than the trade up to 3.
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teams are yet again apparently more than willing to grossly overpay for the right to draft a "franchise" QB. That might be warranted if any of these QBs could legitimately be compared to Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson, but they can't. They are all "boom or bust" projects whose flashes of brilliance come with substantial flaws, including inexperience, accuracy issues, statistics bloated by playing against porous defenses, and lengthy injury histories. Of the top six QBs, one or two might become "franchise" QBs, one or two will likely become journeyman backups, and the rest will be out of the league in four or five years.
I'm not understanding the point. Allen, Mahomes & Jackson were all very boom or bust. You have to draft a QB at some point to even have a chance. You have to swing.
Fine. I am in favor of taking a "swing" by drafting one at #6, or maybe by moving up to #5 for #70. But getting into a "bidding war" for any of these QBs is a mistake IMO. The good news is that the Giants apparently won't part with their #1 next year as part of any trade.
I am also becoming increasingly convinced that it might be better to simply draft a QB every two or three years in the second or third round in the hope that you find a franchise QB everyone else has overlooked.
2- McCarthy was a winner in college and top recruit and Jones was 17-19 at Duke and a walk-on.
3- McCarthy is being sought by multiple teams and in potential trade ups. Rumored Pats, Vikings, Broncos at minimum. Jones was liked by Giants and probably only team that was gonna take him although Gettleman claimed the Broncos but many dispute that.
4- McCarthy strengths are presnap reads, plays under pressure, throws with anticipation, 3rd downs and long and throwing on run. Jones collapses under pressure (see graph posted on college QBs other day under pressure - he was in a negative category all by himself), never throws on run and is a 1 read QB who checks down.
5- McCarthy had a 9.0 YPA. jones has never topped 6.8 ypa in college or pro.
They are very different prospects. Almost opposite. They also have entirely opposite personalities
I agree they are very different players and there is no doubt that JJM is a better prospect than DJ was. But that doesn't change my view that it would be a significant reach to draft him at six. I love Sy but do not agree with his rating on JJM. I am in Greg Cosell's camp and believe he will be at best a game manager type quarterback. If we are going to reach, I would much prefer a high ceiling guy like Penix.
I guess you will only feel good about adding a QB in free agency. Because your mindset says you only want a sure thing from college. Alas, they don't exist.
So, you'll need Schoen to write a big check to a proven NFL QB that has the class to win playoff games and compete for big trophies.
Agreed..
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1- McCarthy has an 84 (1st rd Y1 starter ) from Sy and Jones had an 80 (rd 2-3) and those are two different categories. McCarthy is the 8th highest grade he gave out in 12 years. Jones would probably rank around 15th or so in grades.
2- McCarthy was a winner in college and top recruit and Jones was 17-19 at Duke and a walk-on.
3- McCarthy is being sought by multiple teams and in potential trade ups. Rumored Pats, Vikings, Broncos at minimum. Jones was liked by Giants and probably only team that was gonna take him although Gettleman claimed the Broncos but many dispute that.
4- McCarthy strengths are presnap reads, plays under pressure, throws with anticipation, 3rd downs and long and throwing on run. Jones collapses under pressure (see graph posted on college QBs other day under pressure - he was in a negative category all by himself), never throws on run and is a 1 read QB who checks down.
5- McCarthy had a 9.0 YPA. jones has never topped 6.8 ypa in college or pro.
They are very different prospects. Almost opposite. They also have entirely opposite personalities
I agree they are very different players and there is no doubt that JJM is a better prospect than DJ was. But that doesn't change my view that it would be a significant reach to draft him at six. I love Sy but do not agree with his rating on JJM. I am in Greg Cosell's camp and believe he will be at best a game manager type quarterback. If we are going to reach, I would much prefer a high ceiling guy like Penix.
Let's see, Greg Cosell compared Josh Rosen to Matt Ryan and loved him. He was pretty critical of Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. How's his track record on QBs?