Hello all. I’ve finally been given the OK to post SOME of what has been in the works with the draft around the corner. This post also includes some information regarding the TOP 10. Let’s get started.
- It is fully believed that the 1st two picks will be Caleb Williams and Jayden Daniels respectively. Conversations have already been had with Daniels representatives and the Commanders FO. They have told Daniels that he is the pick.
- The Patriots are highest on (Caleb Williams assumed not available) Daniels, followed by Michael Penix Jr. and Bo Nix. They don’t like the inconsistency they see from Drake Maye and are scared only the lack of volume shown by McCarthy. They want a QB that is mature and tested. Someone they feel comfortable playing Year 1 and can execute at a high level. If Daniels is gone, the Patriots seem keen on trading down. However, they seem to be less likely to trade with the Giants as they value having multiple picks in the 2024 draft rather than future 2025 picks (which would bode well for the Vikings). While they need help at WR, they are likely to pass up one of the top options for more draft capital and one of Penix/Nix.
- If the Patriots trade out with Minnesota, the strong belief now is that Minnesota would go with JJ McCarthy over Drake Maye at 3. Kevin O’ Connell is said to like McCarthy’s ability to efficiently read defenses and properly distribute the ball to the correct read. McCarthy also has the arm strength to challenge all parts of the field. It’s said the Vikings are throwing the smokescreen that they like Maye as a way not to alarm the Giants, who many believe want McCarthy over Maye as well.
- The Giants have seemingly boxed out of #3. But they have a good shot at a trade to #4 as GM Ossenfort doesn’t want to trade out of the top 8. Arizona has a good haul of picks as is, but they would take a slight trade back to #6 if it meant an extra pick or two. (Reportedly it would take #6, #70, and a 2025 2nd)
- The Giants HAVE been throwing QB smokescreens and it’s viewed that they ideally want McCarthy over Maye as well. They have been using the Eli connection and the Josh Allen comps to lead teams to believe they want Maye via trade up, however, they see where Josh Allen was as a prospect and where Drake Maye is a prospect as vastly different. Allen famously didn’t have a QB coach during his time at Wyoming and was strictly succeeding off pure athletic ability. Maye has had coaching and tutelage, yet his fundamentals and processing are notably off compared to others in the class.
The belief that is building around McCarthy is that Harbaugh kind of handcuffed him a bit in Michigan’s offense. “He routinely had to convert 3rd and 5+ when he was called on to throw and he ranks right there with Caleb Williams in those situations.”
- if McCarthy, Nabers, and MHJ are off the board, the Giants would rather trade back and accumulate more picks. They like Rome Odunze, but would rather more picks to fill other areas and taking another option later in the draft at WR.
- In a trade down scenario the Giants strongly favor Quinyon Mitchell and DTs Johnny Newton and Byron Murphy.
- If the Giants can get a QB in the first, they will attempt to flip a pick for a Vet WR (Brandon Aiyuk, Tee Higgins, DeAndre Hopkins)
I should be getting one more check in before the draft.
Maybe they are passing on Maye BECAUSE of what they saw in those six games.
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In comment 16476253 HardTruth said:
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1- McCarthy has an 84 (1st rd Y1 starter ) from Sy and Jones had an 80 (rd 2-3) and those are two different categories. McCarthy is the 8th highest grade he gave out in 12 years. Jones would probably rank around 15th or so in grades.
2- McCarthy was a winner in college and top recruit and Jones was 17-19 at Duke and a walk-on.
3- McCarthy is being sought by multiple teams and in potential trade ups. Rumored Pats, Vikings, Broncos at minimum. Jones was liked by Giants and probably only team that was gonna take him although Gettleman claimed the Broncos but many dispute that.
4- McCarthy strengths are presnap reads, plays under pressure, throws with anticipation, 3rd downs and long and throwing on run. Jones collapses under pressure (see graph posted on college QBs other day under pressure - he was in a negative category all by himself), never throws on run and is a 1 read QB who checks down.
5- McCarthy had a 9.0 YPA. jones has never topped 6.8 ypa in college or pro.
They are very different prospects. Almost opposite. They also have entirely opposite personalities
I agree they are very different players and there is no doubt that JJM is a better prospect than DJ was. But that doesn't change my view that it would be a significant reach to draft him at six. I love Sy but do not agree with his rating on JJM. I am in Greg Cosell's camp and believe he will be at best a game manager type quarterback. If we are going to reach, I would much prefer a high ceiling guy like Penix.
Let's see, Greg Cosell compared Josh Rosen to Matt Ryan and loved him. He was pretty critical of Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. How's his track record on QBs?
Let's see. Sy had Patrick Mahomes at 76 and Josh Rosen at 89. The entire world missed on both Mahomes and Rosen. You have your opinion and I have mine. The great news is, in very short order, just like with Daniel Jones, it will be crystal clear who was right.
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In comment 16476258 AcidTest said:
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teams are yet again apparently more than willing to grossly overpay for the right to draft a "franchise" QB. That might be warranted if any of these QBs could legitimately be compared to Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson, but they can't. They are all "boom or bust" projects whose flashes of brilliance come with substantial flaws, including inexperience, accuracy issues, statistics bloated by playing against porous defenses, and lengthy injury histories. Of the top six QBs, one or two might become "franchise" QBs, one or two will likely become journeyman backups, and the rest will be out of the league in four or five years.
I'm not understanding the point. Allen, Mahomes & Jackson were all very boom or bust. You have to draft a QB at some point to even have a chance. You have to swing.
Fine. I am in favor of taking a "swing" by drafting one at #6, or maybe by moving up to #5 for #70. But getting into a "bidding war" for any of these QBs is a mistake IMO. The good news is that the Giants apparently won't part with their #1 next year as part of any trade.
I am also becoming increasingly convinced that it might be better to simply draft a QB every two or three years in the second or third round in the hope that you find a franchise QB everyone else has overlooked.
That 2025 2nd just pushes you over the brink aye? I'd say the risk is worth the reward for a 2025 2nd and 3rd or pick 70 and 2025 2nd. That's where I draw the line and it sounds like with that we could get JJM or Maye.
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In comment 16476267 The Mike said:
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In comment 16476253 HardTruth said:
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1- McCarthy has an 84 (1st rd Y1 starter ) from Sy and Jones had an 80 (rd 2-3) and those are two different categories. McCarthy is the 8th highest grade he gave out in 12 years. Jones would probably rank around 15th or so in grades.
2- McCarthy was a winner in college and top recruit and Jones was 17-19 at Duke and a walk-on.
3- McCarthy is being sought by multiple teams and in potential trade ups. Rumored Pats, Vikings, Broncos at minimum. Jones was liked by Giants and probably only team that was gonna take him although Gettleman claimed the Broncos but many dispute that.
4- McCarthy strengths are presnap reads, plays under pressure, throws with anticipation, 3rd downs and long and throwing on run. Jones collapses under pressure (see graph posted on college QBs other day under pressure - he was in a negative category all by himself), never throws on run and is a 1 read QB who checks down.
5- McCarthy had a 9.0 YPA. jones has never topped 6.8 ypa in college or pro.
They are very different prospects. Almost opposite. They also have entirely opposite personalities
I agree they are very different players and there is no doubt that JJM is a better prospect than DJ was. But that doesn't change my view that it would be a significant reach to draft him at six. I love Sy but do not agree with his rating on JJM. I am in Greg Cosell's camp and believe he will be at best a game manager type quarterback. If we are going to reach, I would much prefer a high ceiling guy like Penix.
Let's see, Greg Cosell compared Josh Rosen to Matt Ryan and loved him. He was pretty critical of Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. How's his track record on QBs?
Let's see. Sy had Patrick Mahomes at 76 and Josh Rosen at 89. The entire world missed on both Mahomes and Rosen. You have your opinion and I have mine. The great news is, in very short order, just like with Daniel Jones, it will be crystal clear who was right.
True, I'm surprised Cosell is making such sensational statements these days to be honest. He used to always have very hedged and even keeled analysis of QBs. Maybe he's getting a bit more sensational as he gets older.
Draft can't get here soon enough.
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teams are yet again apparently more than willing to grossly overpay for the right to draft a "franchise" QB. That might be warranted if any of these QBs could legitimately be compared to Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson, but they can't. They are all "boom or bust" projects whose flashes of brilliance come with substantial flaws, including inexperience, accuracy issues, statistics bloated by playing against porous defenses, and lengthy injury histories. Of the top six QBs, one or two might become "franchise" QBs, one or two will likely become journeyman backups, and the rest will be out of the league in four or five years.
I guess you will only feel good about adding a QB in free agency. Because your mindset says you only want a sure thing from college. Alas, they don't exist.
So, you'll need Schoen to write a big check to a proven NFL QB that has the class to win playoff games and compete for big trophies.
False. I just said that I am fine taking any of the QBs at #6. I have also said that because of the importance of the position, I would take any of them over any of the "big three" WRs. But trading a boatload of draft capital for any of them IMO. And "any of them" in this case pretty much means JJM or Maye since we aren't getting Williams or Daniels.
Schoen apparently won't give up our #1 next year as part of any trade for JJM or Maye. If you're not willing to give up your #1 then that is a statement that you don't think the QB is a franchise QB.
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In comment 16476258 AcidTest said:
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teams are yet again apparently more than willing to grossly overpay for the right to draft a "franchise" QB. That might be warranted if any of these QBs could legitimately be compared to Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson, but they can't. They are all "boom or bust" projects whose flashes of brilliance come with substantial flaws, including inexperience, accuracy issues, statistics bloated by playing against porous defenses, and lengthy injury histories. Of the top six QBs, one or two might become "franchise" QBs, one or two will likely become journeyman backups, and the rest will be out of the league in four or five years.
I guess you will only feel good about adding a QB in free agency. Because your mindset says you only want a sure thing from college. Alas, they don't exist.
So, you'll need Schoen to write a big check to a proven NFL QB that has the class to win playoff games and compete for big trophies.
False. I just said that I am fine taking any of the QBs at #6. I have also said that because of the importance of the position, I would take any of them over any of the "big three" WRs. But trading a boatload of draft capital for any of them IMO. And "any of them" in this case pretty much means JJM or Maye since we aren't getting Williams or Daniels.
Schoen apparently won't give up our #1 next year as part of any trade for JJM or Maye. If you're not willing to give up your #1 then that is a statement that you don't think the QB is a franchise QB.
But trading a boatload of draft capital for any of them is a mistake IMO.
Take the stud WR or trade back and get a haul of picks to trade up next year for a QB.
+1
We have no idea who the Giants want or do not want. We have no idea the order they have players in and what position they have added importance too.
I think the Giants like Williams (he isn't an option), they like Maye (where they like him is not known) and might or might not be in on JJM..
From there we have no idea if they will be willing to part with a pick next year and his high of pick at if they do.
The way the Giants are designed I would think we are looking for our developmental guy to be behind Lock.. I think Jones has played his last downs here..
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In comment 16476263 Sean said:
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In comment 16476258 AcidTest said:
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teams are yet again apparently more than willing to grossly overpay for the right to draft a "franchise" QB. That might be warranted if any of these QBs could legitimately be compared to Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Jackson, but they can't. They are all "boom or bust" projects whose flashes of brilliance come with substantial flaws, including inexperience, accuracy issues, statistics bloated by playing against porous defenses, and lengthy injury histories. Of the top six QBs, one or two might become "franchise" QBs, one or two will likely become journeyman backups, and the rest will be out of the league in four or five years.
I'm not understanding the point. Allen, Mahomes & Jackson were all very boom or bust. You have to draft a QB at some point to even have a chance. You have to swing.
Fine. I am in favor of taking a "swing" by drafting one at #6, or maybe by moving up to #5 for #70. But getting into a "bidding war" for any of these QBs is a mistake IMO. The good news is that the Giants apparently won't part with their #1 next year as part of any trade.
I am also becoming increasingly convinced that it might be better to simply draft a QB every two or three years in the second or third round in the hope that you find a franchise QB everyone else has overlooked.
That 2025 2nd just pushes you over the brink aye? I'd say the risk is worth the reward for a 2025 2nd and 3rd or pick 70 and 2025 2nd. That's where I draw the line and it sounds like with that we could get JJM or Maye.
Eh. I wouldn't hate it, but I wouldn't trade both day two picks next year to move up. It would have to be #70 this year and our #2 next year. That is the absolute most I would do.
That was the suggestion that GoDeep made. They would trade up to get JJM at 4, but wouldn't take Nabers or trade down even if Maye was there at 6.
He's been labeled consistently as one of the best 3rd down passers as well one of the best grades under pressure. The kid can ball, and he just turned 21. He isn't a finished product whatsoever. For a kid who has a strong arm, great athleticism for your zone reads, and has faced lots of adversity playing in big moments and rival games. Randy Mueller is a big fan of his and has been singing his praises since he's declared. Backs up everything he says.
Talks about all the quarterbacks in this video.
The Giants hired an OC who is supposed to be a QB whisperer, right. So get him a QB who's got athleticism and arm talent so he can mold him into his highest ceiling.
https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1rmGPMDNvZdJN - ( New Window )
Toxic, my greatest nyg fear
Into your lives it will creep
It starts when your always afraid
Step outta line and the nephew - gonna trade you away.
Go Deep said they wouldn't even take Maye if he was there at six. He said the Giants think they have so many holes that they would rather trade down from 6, maybe get a blue chip DT or CB and a WR later.
He said they'd trade up to 4, but only for McCarthy, and he thinks the Pats love McCarthy.
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I work late so can’t read through the comments. You mentioned they have a possible trade up with Cardinals. Is it only if JJ falls to 4, as they wouldn’t want Maye? If NYG made a trade down still in top 10, is WR possible?
Go Deep said they wouldn't even take Maye if he was there at six. He said the Giants think they have so many holes that they would rather trade down from 6, maybe get a blue chip DT or CB and a WR later.
He said they'd trade up to 4, but only for McCarthy, and he thinks the Pats love McCarthy.
Sorry got that wrong, he thinks the Patriots don't like McCarthy OR Maye.
Into your lives it will creep
It starts when your always afraid
Step outta line and the nephew - gonna trade you away.
I'm going to have nightmares.
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In comment 16476290 UGADawgs7 said:
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I work late so can’t read through the comments. You mentioned they have a possible trade up with Cardinals. Is it only if JJ falls to 4, as they wouldn’t want Maye? If NYG made a trade down still in top 10, is WR possible?
Go Deep said they wouldn't even take Maye if he was there at six. He said the Giants think they have so many holes that they would rather trade down from 6, maybe get a blue chip DT or CB and a WR later.
He said they'd trade up to 4, but only for McCarthy, and he thinks the Pats love McCarthy.
Sorry got that wrong, he thinks the Patriots don't like McCarthy OR Maye.
And that they'd rather trade down if they can't get JJM with reasonable tradeup cost to 4 or Nabers at 6 I believe.
No defensive player in this draft class is a blue chip. The Giants need elite talent.
If there's no QB you like, Schoen should take the one of top 3 WRs.
This is all very entertaining, but there is no point getting bent out of shape about this right now.
I don't buy they aren't interested in Maye.
But I also anticipate Maye going at #3 to someone. Patriots, Vikings, Giants.
We shall see.
This is correct.
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I didn't see it answered in the OP but I apologize if it's been answered elsewhere in the thread:
Do we know what the plan is at QB if they pick a WR at 6?
Your worst nightmare. I already asked it. You, bw in dc, christian, and I are headed for a bar.
Ill buy the first round
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Are you saying that if Maye is there at #6, they would pass on him?
Yes. They would use him for trade bait
Yeah, I'm not getting how this is about Mara. I'm confident this is Schoen driven, any owner is going to require sign off on a top ten pick, especially QB.
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In comment 16476151 Go Terps said:
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People can go into a draft saying "we need a WR", "we need an edge rusher", "we need a corner"...
But you can't say "we need a quarterback". You CAN say "we need a quarterback that fits an extremely precise physical, mental, and emotional profile. If this draft doesn't have that guy we can wait."
The Giants are the guy with the associate's degree in English holding out for a job that pays six figures.
What's incredible is that the far majority of BBI did NOT want any part of Daniel Jones leading up to the draft. And now, those same people don't want to move off him unless the perfect QB prospect falls in their lap.
The Giants need an upgrade at QB. They also need a cheaper QB. Maye, McCarthy, Penix & Nix solve that.
And by the way, the thread linked below is an asshat thread from April 2019 linking NYG with Jones. Some reaction.
I didn't mind the Jones pick. Because I believe in taking swings at QB. I just wanted to move on a lot faster. See the Niners. Link - ( New Window )
The best part of BBI is that it is a record and receipt of historical opinions. I actually uttered the phrase on this historical thread that "Gettleman is too smart to do something as stupid as drafting Daniel Jones at six". How utterly wrong I was!!! And I literally just said on today's thread that no GM in the NFL would be dumb enough to pass on Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels at six! Praying I am not wrong again.
Oh and by the way, I feel exactly the same way about JJM today as I did about DJ exactly five years ago. He is a second/third round talent who would be grossly overdrafted at six.
Go back to 1983, when 26 GMs passed on Dan Marino, who threw the ball as well as anyone I've ever seen. If that many GMs could pass on Marino, they sure as hell could pass on Maye.
Taking a QB with minimal research by the worst GM in the NFL at the time is how we ended up with Jones.
Thankfully those circumstances are not the same this year.
No, an idiot for a GM is how we wound up with DJ and SB @#2.
I fully expect JJM to be off the board, therefore I think Nabers will be the pick.
I fully expect JJM to be off the board, therefore I think Nabers will be the pick.
Nabers is what the Vegas odds makers have had as the odds on betting favorite for weeks now. I'd doubt that changes in the week leading up to the draft.
If he has strong conviction on a QB go get him via a trade up otherwise we will always be in rebuild mode unfortunately imo.
Well written and very concise
Great job!
@art_stapleton
Who is privy to Joe Schoen's thinking regarding #NYGiants draft plans?
Here's my best guess at his inner circle, and I'm not even sure he will have shared exact details with this entire group (not in specific order):
John Mara
Brandon Brown
Tim McDonnell
Dennis Hickey
Brian Daboll
Ryan Cowden
Yeah, that's it for me. There are others very involved in the process. But as far as what Joe shares, I don't think it'd go beyond that group.
Something to keep in mind. In 2019, the asshats were all saying defense at 6 and QB at 17.
Start Maye in 2025 with most of your draft capital and healthy cap in tact.
McCarthy would be the opposite of what they are looking for in a franchise QB.
I fully expect JJM to be off the board, therefore I think Nabers will be the pick.
Again, based on what the “wink wink” was by the OP, it is way more believable that the Giants’ draft plan is actually:
1) Drake Maye
2) Rome Odunze
3) Trade down
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I read the whole thread... GoDeep said if JJM is gone and Nabers is there... they will take Nabers.
I fully expect JJM to be off the board, therefore I think Nabers will be the pick.
Again, based on what the “wink wink” was by the OP, it is way more believable that the Giants’ draft plan is actually:
1) Drake Maye
2) Rome Odunze
3) Trade down
RE: With Maye and Nabers as my top choices
GoDeep13 : 4/19/2024 5:55 pm : link : reply
In comment 16475787 UberAlias said:
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I REALLY hope that you're wrong, lol. But love that you're sharing!
They would take Nabers at 6 if there so don’t be sad just yet!
You deserve to have Daniel Jones trotting back out there for season number 6 and you deserve the fucking shit fest that is sure to follow. You can keep repeating this same bullshit over and over again all you want but bw is right. If they honestly looked at ALL of the QBs available not only in this draft but also QBs that were available in FA/trades this offseason and came away thinking NONE of them were worth moving on from Jones for, then they absolutely suck at their jobs and they deserve the same outcome as you do
You’ve got the wrong guy. I’m perfectly happy to replace Jones. I’m also not so myopic about it to believe that any QB will be an improvement. The idea that we have to get a QB is what got us Jones.
When you know that Jones isn't your solution and/or in your future plans at QB then you should start taking some measurable risks to replace him. The risk of doing nothing has to be worse than taking some swings with prospects to find a better starting QB.
Even last year, Schoen and Daboll should have learned when the backup QBs played that the offense's and their respective performances weren't all that much different than when their $160M man played. You can even argue it was better throwing the ball downfield and passing TDs. And these were clear-cut backup NFL players.
They simply have to TRY to get better at QB.
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Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
Who is privy to Joe Schoen's thinking regarding #NYGiants draft plans?
Here's my best guess at his inner circle, and I'm not even sure he will have shared exact details with this entire group (not in specific order):
John Mara
Brandon Brown
Tim McDonnell
Dennis Hickey
Brian Daboll
Ryan Cowden
Yeah, that's it for me. There are others very involved in the process. But as far as what Joe shares, I don't think it'd go beyond that group.
Something to keep in mind. In 2019, the asshats were all saying defense at 6 and QB at 17.
They switched it very late due to worry Jones wouldn't make it to #17. I got the word a couple nights before the draft but didn't think they'd pick him at #6. Disbelief.
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I read the whole thread... GoDeep said if JJM is gone and Nabers is there... they will take Nabers.
I fully expect JJM to be off the board, therefore I think Nabers will be the pick.
Again, based on what the “wink wink” was by the OP, it is way more believable that the Giants’ draft plan is actually:
1) Drake Maye
2) Rome Odunze
3) Trade down
It never ceases to amaze me how all the signs (to you) always point to the Giants having the same exact player evaluations as you.
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In comment 16476362 KingBlue said:
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I read the whole thread... GoDeep said if JJM is gone and Nabers is there... they will take Nabers.
I fully expect JJM to be off the board, therefore I think Nabers will be the pick.
Again, based on what the “wink wink” was by the OP, it is way more believable that the Giants’ draft plan is actually:
1) Drake Maye
2) Rome Odunze
3) Trade down
RE: With Maye and Nabers as my top choices
GoDeep13 : 4/19/2024 5:55 pm : link : reply
In comment 16475787 UberAlias said:
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I REALLY hope that you're wrong, lol. But love that you're sharing!
They would take Nabers at 6 if there so don’t be sad just yet!
Yes but if you keep reading he also says he is allowed to say only what he has said, not some other stuff he seems to know, and this could very well be misdirection. Him, or Eric, even go wink-wink, so we don't know if he was told this as fact or misdirection. Plus other asshats on this thread were told no way we take JJM. So who really knows.
Something to keep in mind. In 2019, the asshats were all saying defense at 6 and QB at 17.
With what we know now,that was the plan until the last second.
I'm right there with you, Eric but something tells me GD13 is on to something. I'm warming up to trading down and accumulating more picks. Also, I am curious to see if Daboll can get something out of Lock as I think he could very well be the starter on day 1.
fwiw to Sean’s 8:40 AM Schoen mentions Hickey in his pre-draft presser. The involvement in Schoen’s assessment of how to approach this inflection draft (we hope) of multiple professionals allows me some confidence they will make the best decisions given the constraints, e.g., Vikings and draft capital.
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Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
Who is privy to Joe Schoen's thinking regarding #NYGiants draft plans?
Here's my best guess at his inner circle, and I'm not even sure he will have shared exact details with this entire group (not in specific order):
John Mara
Brandon Brown
Tim McDonnell
Dennis Hickey
Brian Daboll
Ryan Cowden
Yeah, that's it for me. There are others very involved in the process. But as far as what Joe shares, I don't think it'd go beyond that group.
Something to keep in mind. In 2019, the asshats were all saying defense at 6 and QB at 17.
They switched it very late due to worry Jones wouldn't make it to #17. I got the word a couple nights before the draft but didn't think they'd pick him at #6. Disbelief.
This is just unbelievable. I put more care into drafting a team in Madden.
We are currently entering into year 3 of the current organization....they should not be responsible for the previous decade.....as most of the current leaders were not here.
+1