The well-respected NFL analyst believes the Giants should steer clear of the former Michigan quarterback.
“I like him; I don’t know that I love him. I can’t see how many off-platform throws he makes or how creative he is when I don’t know, Aidan Hutchinson’s ready to swallow him up,” Baldinger said. “You just don’t see that many situations that NFL quarterbacks have to react to in real-time, whether to make the throw as you get blasted or to get out of harm’s way like (Patrick) Mahomes does weekly a couple of times every game. Or Josh Allen just uncorks a bomb to go win a game.”
“You just don’t see those types of throws from him. If I were Joe Schoen, I wouldn’t trade up, lose assets they desperately need, and might become a franchise quarterback, but you’re very uncertain if he will.”
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TBD.
TBD.
I could see a draft documentary on his rise in this years draft and where he ultimately is selected, and how his career develops.
But lots of QBshave dominated college football with those traits and were good backups at most in the NFL.
My ideal outcome is
He falls to six so kept picks
Then build an old school defense first with a running game. You know JMM can dominate that system already. And all those players re much, much easier to acquire I. The modern NFL.
Quickest, least expensive way back to relevancy. And in a few years if JMM is what you hope he is, you hit the jackpot. If he isn’t, at least you are relevant and keep building it or move on from him.
If we guess wrong, we can correct the error in two years (enough time to figure out if the QB has what it takes or not). We can even trade away next year’s first round pick for a 2026 first when the time comes, if we want to prepare for a shot at a top 5 pick in 2026.
We can use all of our other picks this year and next to “build the team” while we get the QB problem solved. But we have to start taking legitimate swings now! And we don’t need to mortgage the draft or our future to do so. There are 5-6 legit first round QBs in this draft. Take a swing - doesn’t have to be one that involves multiple draft picks this year and next.
I just don’t see a lot of separation between QBs 2-5/6. Maybe Shoen and Daboll do… we’ll find out in a few days (thankfully).
My sentiments exactly
Agree with this. I do question his downfield accuracy and touch, though. That is where the elite QBs separate themselves from the rest. And that is the big projection with him. That’s why I like Penix over JJM. He already shows he can do that as well as anyone.
I think you’re getting a “B+” QB prospect. Not sure you trade up for that, maybe you take him at 6. Be prepared to build a powerhouse team around him like SF has with Purdy…otherwise you’ll be limited as a fringe contending team.
I bolded the key part.
“I would not go after J.J. McCarthy. He might become a great pro. He’s just a very difficult guy to evaluate because of where he comes from,” Baldinger told the New York Post. “He’s the only quarterback I can remember in recent history where nobody says anything negative about him. They just say, ‘He’s 27-1, Jim Harbaugh says he’s the best quarterback in the draft.’”
Seems pretty clear he wouldn't invest the 6th pick in McCarthy.
I think you’re getting a “B+” QB prospect. Not sure you trade up for that, maybe you take him at 6. Be prepared to build a powerhouse team around him like SF has with Purdy…otherwise you’ll be limited as a fringe contending team.
I tend to look at it the other way. I think a lot of QBs could have done what McCarthy did in that Michigan offense, which is largely manage it.
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but I don't question his ability to make off platform throws. He did that aplenty at Michigan.
Agree with this. I do question his downfield accuracy and touch, though. That is where the elite QBs separate themselves from the rest. And that is the big projection with him. That’s why I like Penix over JJM. He already shows he can do that as well as anyone.
Josh Allen had the same issue due to a throwing motion that was all arm. There's a chance sees JJM's throwing motion and thinks he could make the same evolution Josh allen did in his throwing motion and take exponential strides in his game.
I'm happy with either Maye or JJM at 4 for no more than pick 6, 70 and 2025 2nd. I prefer JJM, but I'd do that deal for either of them. I don't think we can just wait to see if we don't get jumped.
I don’t know that it carries a ton of weight, other than it is not inconsistent with a lot of other evaluations.
Let’s face it - if you love or dislike any of these prospects, you have plenty of scouting reports to point to as support for your position. And the people who wrote those analyses have hit in the past and missed in the past on QB evaluations. What is being argued is personal preference.
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Not sure why his opinion on JJM carrier much weight
I don’t know that it carries a ton of weight, other than it is not inconsistent with a lot of other evaluations.
Let’s face it - if you love or dislike any of these prospects, you have plenty of scouting reports to point to as support for your position. And the people who wrote those analyses have hit in the past and missed in the past on QB evaluations. What is being argued is personal preference.
I don’t see any analysis of his strengths or weaknesses in the quote from Baldy. Just that there is uncertainty- which is true of every single player drafted.
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In comment 16476537 RCPhoenix said:
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Not sure why his opinion on JJM carrier much weight
I don’t know that it carries a ton of weight, other than it is not inconsistent with a lot of other evaluations.
Let’s face it - if you love or dislike any of these prospects, you have plenty of scouting reports to point to as support for your position. And the people who wrote those analyses have hit in the past and missed in the past on QB evaluations. What is being argued is personal preference.
I don’t see any analysis of his strengths or weaknesses in the quote from Baldy. Just that there is uncertainty- which is true of every single player drafted.
I was speaking more broadly. For every criticism of a QB you can find a well respected scout that love him. For every scout that fawns over a guy, you can find another that criticizes the same traits.
I see a lot of posters here still posting traits of some QBs like they are universal truths that simply are not. Most have Williams as #1. That is about as close to a consensus as there seems to be on these guys. Daniels, Maye, McCarthy, Penix and Nix all have well respected people all over the place on them.
Why just the Giants?
1 month ago this was one of the best QB classes we have seen in a long time. Now everyone wants to talk themselves out of any QB because they could bust. Guess what, one of Odunze, Nabers and MHJ will fall flat, one will be pretty good and one probably will be a star year in and year out.. Do you know which ones will be which? How about Oline? Is Alt All-Pro or journeyman? What about other 1st rd linemen?
You just don't know but if you have a feeling about a gut go get him..
The Jones pick was bad because DG talked himself into his Eli like guy even though NONE of those QB's that year were considered top notch and can't miss..
These guys this year are light years ahead of that 2019 group..
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In comment 16476505 barens said:
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but I don't question his ability to make off platform throws. He did that aplenty at Michigan.
Agree with this. I do question his downfield accuracy and touch, though. That is where the elite QBs separate themselves from the rest. And that is the big projection with him. That’s why I like Penix over JJM. He already shows he can do that as well as anyone.
Josh Allen had the same issue due to a throwing motion that was all arm. There's a chance sees JJM's throwing motion and thinks he could make the same evolution Josh allen did in his throwing motion and take exponential strides in his game.
I'm happy with either Maye or JJM at 4 for no more than pick 6, 70 and 2025 2nd. I prefer JJM, but I'd do that deal for either of them. I don't think we can just wait to see if we don't get jumped.
That’s not what I see. The problem I see with JJM’s throwing motion is the opposite, it seems like it requires a lot of torque, for lack of a better term, from his midsection to get the ball where it needs to go. It seems like his hips flip on every throw. I’m not a scout, I’m just a dude who owns other dudes jerseys, so I’m happy to say I’m wrong if I am, but that keeps sticking out as being atypical.
Agree.
Sy carries a lot more weight than Baldy does on QBs.
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Not sure why his opinion on JJM carrier much weight
I don’t know that it carries a ton of weight, other than it is not inconsistent with a lot of other evaluations.
Let’s face it - if you love or dislike any of these prospects, you have plenty of scouting reports to point to as support for your position. And the people who wrote those analyses have hit in the past and missed in the past on QB evaluations. What is being argued is personal preference.
This is pretty much it in a nutshell. Talent evaluators have differing opinions on ALL of the top QBs. Meanwhile, NFL teams (which also have access to player medicals and personal interviews) still get it wrong about half the time.
Then you combine that with all the misinformation about which QBs the top teams prefer, whether NE, AZ and LAC will trade out, how much it would cost if they did, and which teams want to trade up... and I just don't know who or what to believe anymore.
Personally, I’ll be shocked if CW isn’t a bust. Chicago is the worst place he could land outside of maybe the Jets. Big market, no QB friendly coaching, it’s exactly what he doesn’t need. His talent is undeniable, but at some point he’ll be humbled, and have to face adversity, and when the media starts piling on, and losses start coming, I don’t know that he’ll be able to not implode. At the end of the day he’s a kid, and I don’t wish him negativity, but I just think the writing is on the wall with him.
Daniels is a 50/50 shot, I don’t think his frame will support his play style, but Kingsbury is good at what he does, and Daniels fits his system, so he’ll likely be good as long as he’s healthy.
Realistically, this class reminds me more of 2018. There’s no sure thing by a long shot, and it’ll likely end up the successful guys are the ones who end up with the best coaching (Allen & Daboll, Lamar & Greg Roman/Harbaugh). I don’t think there’s a QB in this class who will succeed despite the coach.
Maye is the most intriguing because he’s got traits like dudes who’ve been successful as of late. But he also has some commonalities with a guy like Darnold - saw regression the year he came out, a lot of poor decision making, seemed a little lost without the talent level of guys from the prior year. I still think the Jets ruined Darnold, and if he ends up on the Bills, we may be lookin at him the way we look at Allen. But to that point, Maye could easily bust if he doesn’t have solid coaching around him. I just think his ceiling is the 2nd highest after CW.
TBD.
Watch his throws Eric. He had to drive with all his energy even in the combine where he's not being pressured. i just don't think he has the arm to be anything above mediocre.
Agreed!
He changes plays, protections, routes, positioning etc at the line of scrimmage
He turns negative plays into positive plays before they even happen.
From Jay Gruden & Colt McCoy
Gruden & McCoy - ( New Window )
That's why teams were blown away with his football knowledge after meeting with him at the Combine. How much counts with various teams overall evaluation of him, I have no clue.
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...A clear #1 in Lawrence (this year, 1a win Williams and 1b in Daniels) and then a bunch of guys that people convince themselves will be great, but really aren't that good.
Personally, I’ll be shocked if CW isn’t a bust. Chicago is the worst place he could land outside of maybe the Jets. Big market, no QB friendly coaching, it’s exactly what he doesn’t need. His talent is undeniable, but at some point he’ll be humbled, and have to face adversity, and when the media starts piling on, and losses start coming, I don’t know that he’ll be able to not implode. At the end of the day he’s a kid, and I don’t wish him negativity, but I just think the writing is on the wall with him.
Daniels is a 50/50 shot, I don’t think his frame will support his play style, but Kingsbury is good at what he does, and Daniels fits his system, so he’ll likely be good as long as he’s healthy.
Realistically, this class reminds me more of 2018. There’s no sure thing by a long shot, and it’ll likely end up the successful guys are the ones who end up with the best coaching (Allen & Daboll, Lamar & Greg Roman/Harbaugh). I don’t think there’s a QB in this class who will succeed despite the coach.
Maye is the most intriguing because he’s got traits like dudes who’ve been successful as of late. But he also has some commonalities with a guy like Darnold - saw regression the year he came out, a lot of poor decision making, seemed a little lost without the talent level of guys from the prior year. I still think the Jets ruined Darnold, and if he ends up on the Bills, we may be lookin at him the way we look at Allen. But to that point, Maye could easily bust if he doesn’t have solid coaching around him. I just think his ceiling is the 2nd highest after CW.
Thanks Colin, these are really good points.
I am in the minority on Cossell...I think he's overrated as an analyst.
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was on with Adam Schein yesterday and he was not a fan of McCarthy at all.
I am in the minority on Cossell...I think he's overrated as an analyst.
Agreed.
For one year, that was pretty accurate.
We would be trowing away a pick taking McCarthy.
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Because there is potential. If they trade up to get him I think it is a desperation move. This guy’s story is much better than his tape.
We would be trowing away a pick taking McCarthy.
Thanks Kiper
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Cosell isn't a QB guru whose never wrong.
For one year, that was pretty accurate.
I mean, 50 Cent has a better arm than Alex Smith
McCarthy may end up re-uniting with Harbaugh if that all happens.
McCarthy may end up re-uniting with Harbaugh if that all happens.
Is that a joke?