Then throughout the off-season I kept reading how fast JJ can process the defense. After what we've had for the past few seasons I've convinced myself I want JJM
Always has been. You can see glimpses of Justin Herbert/ Josh Allen like abilities. Consistency needs work obviously and if they do get him aI hope he can sit at least most of the year. JJM is just to much projection for me, I haven’t seen him do anything that has really wowed me in a game. I think the success on both of these guys is largely going to depend on the coaching they get and situation they find theme selves in at the next level. Neither can be forced to start right away, both will suffer and maybe fail if they have to.
He possesses the clutch gene, I’m more confident about what’s between his ears more than any other prospect. He’s been expected to win his entire life and has done exactly that. UNC qb’s haven’t translated, yes, I know the same could be said about OSU (Stroud proved that wrong this year). Overall, im much more confident in JJ.
McCarthy was held back a bit in the offense but he also had a very strong supporting cast.
Was watching Derrick Henry get interviewed re: difference between college and pros and he said there was no comparison. Said SEC was probably the closest - so, if I had to pick, I'd probably want to look at just passing plays against SEC teams.
Maye was a consensus 1A to Caleb all year. What has he done to drop behind a guy like JJMcCarthy since January? Nothing.
Do you think teams dont evaluate 365 days a year? It's all media driven nonsense.
Maye is the prize. Schoen knows it. Filter the BS Schoen has been all over Maye since last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ is available for the vikings broncos or raiders without a trade up.
Ever since Harbaugh said JJ had the greatest pro-day ever, he should be everybody’s top choice. No question.
There is a video from the LAC where it shows Harbaugh at the Michigan pro day, and you hear the magic words.
I think he says it to his dad, too. It was like they were at a revival meeting...
Sounds familiar.
Archived Thread
sxdxca : 3/22/2018 1:28 am
"Darnold had one of the best pro days I've ever seen".....
[Joel Klatt Fox Sports]:
Quote:
I got to tell you, it was a little bit Roy Hobbs-esque. You know what I mean? I mean, it was a little bit "The Natural" because it started raining very heavily right when Sam started to throw and he did not flinch at all."
"He had one of the most, I would say, best pro days I've seen in a long time. And in large part due to the rain because Colin, here's the thing, these pro days, there's no adversity for all these guys. I've gone around and seen all of them, I even went to Fargo, North Dakota to see your boy, Carson Wentz, there is no adversity for these quarterbacks on their pro days."
"And then all of a sudden, here we get to USC, it never rains in California and there is a torrential rain storm. And Sam Darnold wanted this, he was praying for rain so that he could have some level of adversity and go out there and show the NFL community that he can throw the ball when it's wet, when the conditions are inclement. And he was fantastic, he was ripping it, man."
[OP adds]:
Quote:
It's now making sense to me why the Giants are rumored to be wanting to trade up with Cleveland.
In my opinion after seeing Darnold at his pro day , (which I saw the video by the way) , he was so impressive , the Giants realize he's the best player in this draft , and he is going to be a Hall Of Fame QB and star.
Unfortunately , I don't think the Browns will trade with the Giants , there's no way Cleveland lets this guy go.
But I'd be shocked if NE doesn't take him. I like JJM a lot too, but I don't think the raw skills are quite the same level, but he might be the more cerebral of the two.
I’m pulling for McCarthy—I like his energy and experience coming from Michigan. However, I won’t be upset if it’s Maye, I trust Schoen and Dabes to make the right choice.
In comment 16478416 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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Maye was a consensus 1A to Caleb all year. What has he done to drop behind a guy like JJMcCarthy since January? Nothing.
Do you think teams dont evaluate 365 days a year? It's all media driven nonsense.
Maye is the prize. Schoen knows it. Filter the BS Schoen has been all over Maye since last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ is available for the vikings broncos or raiders without a trade up.
I feel this isn't really accurate. Going into the season Maye was high but as the college year went on he didn't help himself especially with Daniels having an unreal year. I wouldn't say he hurt himeself but nothing he did this year or this offseason helped him.
In comment 16478416 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
Quote:
Maye was a consensus 1A to Caleb all year. What has he done to drop behind a guy like JJMcCarthy since January? Nothing.
Do you think teams dont evaluate 365 days a year? It's all media driven nonsense.
Maye is the prize. Schoen knows it. Filter the BS Schoen has been all over Maye since last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ is available for the vikings broncos or raiders without a trade up.
I feel this isn't really accurate. Going into the season Maye was high but as the college year went on he didn't help himself especially with Daniels having an unreal year. I wouldn't say he hurt himeself but nothing he did this year or this offseason helped him.
So as of January 10th 2024 or so you believe there were teams that had JJ McCarthy ahead of Maye?
In comment 16478455 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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In comment 16478444 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 16478416 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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Maye was a consensus 1A to Caleb all year. What has he done to drop behind a guy like JJMcCarthy since January? Nothing.
Do you think teams dont evaluate 365 days a year? It's all media driven nonsense.
Maye is the prize. Schoen knows it. Filter the BS Schoen has been all over Maye since last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ is available for the vikings broncos or raiders without a trade up.
I feel this isn't really accurate. Going into the season Maye was high but as the college year went on he didn't help himself especially with Daniels having an unreal year. I wouldn't say he hurt himeself but nothing he did this year or this offseason helped him.
So as of January 10th 2024 or so you believe there were teams that had JJ McCarthy ahead of Maye?
Not what I said. What I said was Maye didn't help himself this year and left the window open to not only fall behikd Williams but also let Daniels pass him too. Now you have McCarthy win a championship and kill the interviews. It is Maye sliding back from where people thought he would have been just as much as McCarthy improving his stock. As Sy and many others like Phil Simms said, at first glance nobody thought McCarthy was that high but after really breaking down the video, he changed a lot of minds. Then you have Maye with some really good video but also some really bad video of missing wide open receivers and having shitty mechanics. It scares teams off.
I think we need to go QB being that we are picking where we are. I think both guys are going to be pretty good pros with Maye having the higher ceiling.
with Eli, Ben, and Rivers and liking all of them but Rivers the worst. Then I see this class and it is basically trying to convince myself that all these QBs will turn out great. I know it is easier to play QB in today's NFL. The rules dictate that. I am just not crazy about any and that includes every QB this year. I know we need a QB but it feels forced at this point. Look at the year we beat Washington and missed out on Chase Young. We were all pissed but we landed Andrew Thomas. That is how I feel this year. Let's not force it. Let the draft come to us. That is how I feel.
with Eli, Ben, and Rivers and liking all of them but Rivers the worst. Then I see this class and it is basically trying to convince myself that all these QBs will turn out great. I know it is easier to play QB in today's NFL. The rules dictate that. I am just not crazy about any and that includes every QB this year. I know we need a QB but it feels forced at this point. Look at the year we beat Washington and missed out on Chase Young. We were all pissed but we landed Andrew Thomas. That is how I feel this year. Let's not force it. Let the draft come to us. That is how I feel.
Me too Robbie, me too.
McCarthy. He seems to have better mental make-up than Maye
J.J. McCARTHY, Michigan (6-2 ½, 215, no 40, 1): Of the top four quarterbacks only McCarthy truly elevated his team. “He’s got major weaknesses but there’s something about that kid that is absolutely special,” one scout said. “He completely changed that rivalry (Ohio State-Michigan). He singlehandedly won both of those games. The one in Columbus (in 2022), people don’t realize some of those throws he made in that game. Then his ability to never get off the field and extend plays is uncanny. All this talk that Michigan built him and it was (Jim) Harbaugh and the O-line. Their O-line sucked this year … The 9-inch hand and the way he throws the ball really scares me. It’s one speed. He has no ability to layer balls in between defenders. Everything’s a fastball. His deep balls are line drives, which is very unfriendly to receivers especially when he gets to this level and it’s contested and not just wide open. But there’s magic. There are these guys that seem to always do this and it always works. The throws by Mahomes early in his career when he’d throw into coverage and it somehow landed in the lap of the Kansas City guy. I don’t know if he’s got this magic to him or if it’s just luck.
Feeling like this is forced and yet 4 weeks ago would have been fine with Maye at 6.. Some of this feeling of angst seems to be tied to JJM, ie you don't think he is worthy of the pick but what if the Giants do?
Honestly the push by some for Nabers or Odunze to me seems like buying high performance sport tires while still owning a Ford escort..
Feeling like this is forced and yet 4 weeks ago would have been fine with Maye at 6.. Some of this feeling of angst seems to be tied to JJM, ie you don't think he is worthy of the pick but what if the Giants do?
Honestly the push by some for Nabers or Odunze to me seems like buying high performance sport tires while still owning a Ford escort..
Forced as in trading the farm to move up. At 6? I'm fine with it.
the Giants are most likely to trade up for. If he slides past three(and that's because i don't think the Patriots are trading back )I firmly believe he's theirs at 4.
Which of these QBs is mobile enough to avoid pressure, can extend plays, thrives under pressure, has played in a pro-style offense, has played under center, and has called plays in the huddle?
There is only one and that is McCarthy.
They all have strong arms but both Maye and Penix are inaccurate in the mid-game.
…and it’s not close. McCarthy was a 2 round pick at best during the season for good reason. He looked scared against PSU and got bailed out by his RBs. Chop Robinson had him seeing ghosts.
…and it’s not close. McCarthy was a 2 round pick at best during the season for good reason. He looked scared against PSU and got bailed out by his RBs. Chop Robinson had him seeing ghosts.
In comment 16478455 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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In comment 16478444 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 16478416 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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Maye was a consensus 1A to Caleb all year. What has he done to drop behind a guy like JJMcCarthy since January? Nothing.
Do you think teams dont evaluate 365 days a year? It's all media driven nonsense.
Maye is the prize. Schoen knows it. Filter the BS Schoen has been all over Maye since last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ is available for the vikings broncos or raiders without a trade up.
I feel this isn't really accurate. Going into the season Maye was high but as the college year went on he didn't help himself especially with Daniels having an unreal year. I wouldn't say he hurt himeself but nothing he did this year or this offseason helped him.
So as of January 10th 2024 or so you believe there were teams that had JJ McCarthy ahead of Maye?
Not what I said. What I said was Maye didn't help himself this year and left the window open to not only fall behikd Williams but also let Daniels pass him too. Now you have McCarthy win a championship and kill the interviews. It is Maye sliding back from where people thought he would have been just as much as McCarthy improving his stock. As Sy and many others like Phil Simms said, at first glance nobody thought McCarthy was that high but after really breaking down the video, he changed a lot of minds. Then you have Maye with some really good video but also some really bad video of missing wide open receivers and having shitty mechanics. It scares teams off.
I dont buy it. You make it seem like people only watched video of mccarthy after the season ended you know it doesnt work like that.
The working narrative is that he blew the socks off of teams on the board during interviews. That's great but Dan Jones is a really bright guy also.
For the record im good with either but i dont see a world where schoen passes on maye to take mccarthy.
I like his deep ball prowess. JJM cannot throw the deep ball effectively. I will add, though, that football games are won in the trenches. Without an effective OL we will struggle with John Elway.
In comment 16478614 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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In comment 16478459 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 16478455 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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In comment 16478444 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 16478416 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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Maye was a consensus 1A to Caleb all year. What has he done to drop behind a guy like JJMcCarthy since January? Nothing.
Do you think teams dont evaluate 365 days a year? It's all media driven nonsense.
Maye is the prize. Schoen knows it. Filter the BS Schoen has been all over Maye since last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ is available for the vikings broncos or raiders without a trade up.
I feel this isn't really accurate. Going into the season Maye was high but as the college year went on he didn't help himself especially with Daniels having an unreal year. I wouldn't say he hurt himeself but nothing he did this year or this offseason helped him.
So as of January 10th 2024 or so you believe there were teams that had JJ McCarthy ahead of Maye?
Not what I said. What I said was Maye didn't help himself this year and left the window open to not only fall behikd Williams but also let Daniels pass him too. Now you have McCarthy win a championship and kill the interviews. It is Maye sliding back from where people thought he would have been just as much as McCarthy improving his stock. As Sy and many others like Phil Simms said, at first glance nobody thought McCarthy was that high but after really breaking down the video, he changed a lot of minds. Then you have Maye with some really good video but also some really bad video of missing wide open receivers and having shitty mechanics. It scares teams off.
I dont buy it. You make it seem like people only watched video of mccarthy after the season ended you know it doesnt work like that.
The working narrative is that he blew the socks off of teams on the board during interviews. That's great but Dan Jones is a really bright guy also.
For the record im good with either but i dont see a world where schoen passes on maye to take mccarthy.
I agree ultimately with what you are sayjng with regard to us taking Maye and liking him over JJM. All I am saying is Maye only has to look in the mirror as to where he is where he is. That is all.
In comment 16478614 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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In comment 16478459 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 16478455 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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In comment 16478444 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 16478416 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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Maye was a consensus 1A to Caleb all year. What has he done to drop behind a guy like JJMcCarthy since January? Nothing.
Do you think teams dont evaluate 365 days a year? It's all media driven nonsense.
Maye is the prize. Schoen knows it. Filter the BS Schoen has been all over Maye since last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ is available for the vikings broncos or raiders without a trade up.
I feel this isn't really accurate. Going into the season Maye was high but as the college year went on he didn't help himself especially with Daniels having an unreal year. I wouldn't say he hurt himeself but nothing he did this year or this offseason helped him.
So as of January 10th 2024 or so you believe there were teams that had JJ McCarthy ahead of Maye?
Not what I said. What I said was Maye didn't help himself this year and left the window open to not only fall behikd Williams but also let Daniels pass him too. Now you have McCarthy win a championship and kill the interviews. It is Maye sliding back from where people thought he would have been just as much as McCarthy improving his stock. As Sy and many others like Phil Simms said, at first glance nobody thought McCarthy was that high but after really breaking down the video, he changed a lot of minds. Then you have Maye with some really good video but also some really bad video of missing wide open receivers and having shitty mechanics. It scares teams off.
I dont buy it. You make it seem like people only watched video of mccarthy after the season ended you know it doesnt work like that.
The working narrative is that he blew the socks off of teams on the board during interviews. That's great but Dan Jones is a really bright guy also.
For the record im good with either but i dont see a world where schoen passes on maye to take mccarthy.
You're talking about pundits that just follow what they hear. Then they start hearing McCarthy is liked more by real professional nfl talent evaluators and the pundits say he's rising.
But if we don’t improve the rest of the offense - it will be irrelevant.
Here is a poster who will be bitching no matter what the Giants do.
Sorry you must be confused with the constant bitching and complaining of Go Terps or ThomasG.
This team has sucked of putting a competent team around a QB for nearly a dozen years. I just said I’ll be fine taking either. But if we continue surrounding them with shit players - it won’t matter.
But if we don’t improve the rest of the offense - it will be irrelevant.
Here is a poster who will be bitching no matter what the Giants do.
Sorry you must be confused with the constant bitching and complaining of Go Terps or ThomasG.
This team has sucked of putting a competent team around a QB for nearly a dozen years. I just said I’ll be fine taking either. But if we continue surrounding them with shit players - it won’t matter.
Maye just feels like Jones with a better arm.
McCarthy is a winner at all levels.
He is a dog. His teammates and his coaches love him.
He is tough endured himself to his teammates playing hurt.
In 2018 McCarthy fractured his thumb. He could barely hold the football, yet despite the injury, McCarthy suited up for a state championship game in high school.
At Spring practice, on March 6, 2022, McCarthy injured his throwing shoulder. It was expected that he would have surgery to correct the issue. Instead, he rehabbed and played the entire 2022 season injured. The shoulder did not fully heal until March of 2023.
On November 11, 2023, vs. Penn State McCarthy had a grade 1 pedal high ankle sprain. Yet he played threw the injury and was not healthy until the championship game vs. Alabama
Sometimes you need a player who wills you to win.
Intangibles mean something. And availability means everything.
Never saw Maye play and only saw McCarthybplay in the championship game and I liked some things I saw of Penix better.
That being said, I haven’t committed to anyone and am just rooting for the Giants to make the right choice. I will see the videos later and support whoever we take.
I stopped pulling for specific picks after I was sure Ron Dayne was the next greatest running back and Aaron Gibson needed to be a Giant. II get more peace not building anyone up in my head.
If they both turn out to be superstars, I want the one who can stay healthy and on the field more -- like Eli.
Neither kid seems to be an asshole as of yet. So I don't have a horse in that race. Maye supposedly has better physical tools. So what? Marino had a WAY better arm than Montana and Peyton Manning. So did Simms. JJM has more than enough physical tools. More than many successful QBs. I don't care about any of that as long as a guy has enough.
My ONLY concern for "IF QB," is that Schoen and Daboll get it fucking right -- like they did with Josh Allen. Allen was a boom or bust prospect. Most of those guys turn out to be busts. Most 1st round QBs in general, turn out to be busts.
I really hope that whatever they saw that got them to go ALL IN for Allen, was a repeatable process/eye for talent rather than just dumb luck. Bill Walsh (who was considered pretty good at identifying QB talent) thought Jake Plummer was the second coming of Montana.
Luck aside, the Giants can't pick a QB just to pick a QB. They need to have MASSIVE CONVICTION about whoever it is. That in the worst case scenario, the guy's FLOOR is better than (what they feel) Jones' is now.
If they don't have that conviction (or can't get it done, which is a strong possibility), they should take a blue chip WR.
But if we don’t improve the rest of the offense - it will be irrelevant.
Here is a poster who will be bitching no matter what the Giants do.
Sorry you must be confused with the constant bitching and complaining of Go Terps or ThomasG.
This team has sucked of putting a competent team around a QB for nearly a dozen years. I just said I’ll be fine taking either. But if we continue surrounding them with shit players - it won’t matter.
I'm with ya..it's why I.am not excited about taking either WR or QB
Get more picks via trade down
I think I’d just say I prefer whichever one we can get with a lesser or no trade up.
If it came down to trading up to 3 or 4 for Maye or McCarthy at 6, I’d prefer the latter. The opposite would be true as well.
That’s why Schoen has to really be aware of his surroundings and why he gets paid the big bucks. In a way he has to not only know NYG’s plan but others too.
Do we need to have massive conviction to draft other positions, or is it just at QB?
All positions especially when the team is at the crossroads we are right now.
I feel like 22 was a thousand years ago and don't want to screw this up...
#6 IA a premium pick and we seemed to have quasi whiffed on the 5 and 7 we had 2 yrs ago
But your point is a valid one
And if you're wrong on your non-QB 1st round pick, it sucks, but it's not quite as devastating.
But if you only have 6 picks, and you have a roster full of glaring holes that need upgrading, and you're talking about using your high, 1st round pick -- and possibly more picks to draft a QB, YEAH, you better have a massive conviction about the guy -- that he's gonna be better than the guy you have now, and you better fucking be right about it.
But lean toward JJM. whoever GMen take I'm fibne. Even Penix or Nix.
But just a very smnall belief that JJM will make better decisions while Maya is more electric. I lean twoard smarter/better game mgr/ decion maker when looking at these 2. .
I will say JJ has grown on me a bit. He can maneuver the pocket, he is good throwing on the run, good off platform and from different arm slots, great velocity, very strong accuracy and timing throwing over the middle of the field, and they say he has all of the intangibles. But my worry with him is the limitations - the lac of vertical throwing ability and flat deep ball, the inability to throw with touch outside of the numbers, and he did make some erratic decisions under pressure.
So I don’t HATE the idea of him at 6. He’s an upgrade and has potential to be a good starting QB. But I see a guy with a B+ ceiling, and I’m not sure if that’s a guy you sell the farm to move up and get. Maye, to me, at least has top 5-8 QB ability and upside.
McCarthy and thought he was a future franchise quarterback. I’ll go with the easy choice in Maye.
I can't get past this either. The coach didn't let him throw the ball for a reason. And, I'm not buying the "they had a good run game" excuse. I remember watching Josh Allen in college, saying there is the next Giants QB. He looked the part. You could see had special traits. Even watching Caleb Williams, you can see it. I don't see anything special with JJ.
I saw a guy in Wegmans yesterday wearing a Michigan shirt
So, I had to ask what he thought about JJ. Turns out the guy was a Giants fan and he immediate responded that JJ isn't worth pick 6. I said Giants may trade up for him and he laughed.
he's got the talent, he's supposed to be one of the best QB's in this class as far as reading defenses, he's the guy who's going to come in and make less mistakes, which is what this team needs.
Maye is my QB1 in the entire Draft. McCarthy is my QB4. I think McCarthy is a first round QB, but with him, it's mostly projection. He simply doesn't have the volume of throws (as well as clutch moments) that the other QBs have, which makes him exceedingly difficult to evaluate. Betting on a true unknown is scary, let alone at 6th overall.
I would go 51/49 in favor of Maye due to his upside but I think McCarthy has the better personality to handle the NY media. I will be thrilled with either to be honest.
I am a Michigan fan. I think the McCarthy criticism is a little unwarranted. If he were to come out next year, he might be the #1 overall pick.
Sure, he may have been. And Sam Howell might've been the #1 overall pick if he declared early too. Same with Connor Cook. Hell, look at Spencer Rattler.
Lots of shit can happen next season.
Whether we go Maye or McCarthy, I think Drew Lock should 100% start the season unless the rookie QB picks up things fast and impresses.
I am a Michigan fan. I think the McCarthy criticism is a little unwarranted. If he were to come out next year, he might be the #1 overall pick.
Sure, he may have been. And Sam Howell might've been the #1 overall pick if he declared early too. Same with Connor Cook. Hell, look at Spencer Rattler.
Lots of shit can happen next season.
Whether we go Maye or McCarthy, I think Drew Lock should 100% start the season unless the rookie QB picks up things fast and impresses.
You're really comparing McCarthy to Connor Cook and Sam Howell?
Look at you, Greg. I thought you hated Maye. I'm surprised you dislike McCarthy more.
I don't dislike Maye, but I've always thought he has a significant risk of busting. I do agree though that he has upper echelon tools for a QB and he has a fairly high ceiling if he can fix his flaws. Maybe Daboll can coach it out of him, I don't know.
He's not my ideal QB pick, but I'd rather him than McCarthy because I don't see the point of drafting a high floor/mid ceiling prospect at #6, or trading up for him. As that quote from a coach/scout from another thread said, if Jim Harbaugh truly believed all his blather about how incredible McCarthy is, Michigan would have thrown the ball more.
Look at you, Greg. I thought you hated Maye. I'm surprised you dislike McCarthy more.
As that quote from a coach/scout from another thread said, if Jim Harbaugh truly believed all his blather about how incredible McCarthy is, Michigan would have thrown the ball more.
I don't agree. Harbaugh prefers to run - and it was safe for them to blow you out while just running the ball. And when you are going against the super tough teams-- you work all year as a strength of teh run, the coahc loves to run, yet all of a sudden you are going to change your style especially if you think your team is superior when it runs?
I have had it Caleb, Daniels, Maye, JJM, Nix, and then Penix. I flucuate between Nix and Penix, but my top 4 hasn't changed one bit. So Maye, but I like JJM also and think he may end up better. So either is fine with me.
Please!! That has failure written all over it. I'd be happy with Maye, but also wouldn't mind getting one of the top three receivers and Nix, Penix, or Rattler later.
I am a Michigan fan. I think the McCarthy criticism is a little unwarranted. If he were to come out next year, he might be the #1 overall pick.
Sure, he may have been. And Sam Howell might've been the #1 overall pick if he declared early too. Same with Connor Cook. Hell, look at Spencer Rattler.
Lots of shit can happen next season.
Whether we go Maye or McCarthy, I think Drew Lock should 100% start the season unless the rookie QB picks up things fast and impresses.
You're really comparing McCarthy to Connor Cook and Sam Howell?
I'm saying that the premise that McCarthy would've been #1 overall in 2025 had he returned to school is questionable.
But what's important is that the Giants are last try to address the position.
I can't evaluate myself, so I have to rely on people who know better than I do.
There is a video from the LAC where it shows Harbaugh at the Michigan pro day, and you hear the magic words.
I think he says it to his dad, too. It was like they were at a revival meeting...
I’m still convinced Penix will be a star.
McCarthy = Harbaugh, not good enough
McCarthy was held back a bit in the offense but he also had a very strong supporting cast.
Was watching Derrick Henry get interviewed re: difference between college and pros and he said there was no comparison. Said SEC was probably the closest - so, if I had to pick, I'd probably want to look at just passing plays against SEC teams.
Do you think teams dont evaluate 365 days a year? It's all media driven nonsense.
Maye is the prize. Schoen knows it. Filter the BS Schoen has been all over Maye since last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ is available for the vikings broncos or raiders without a trade up.
To answer your question
Maye.
Totally agree if those are the choices.
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Totally agree if those are the choices.
I rather have neither!!!
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Ever since Harbaugh said JJ had the greatest pro-day ever, he should be everybody’s top choice. No question.
There is a video from the LAC where it shows Harbaugh at the Michigan pro day, and you hear the magic words.
I think he says it to his dad, too. It was like they were at a revival meeting...
Sounds familiar.
Archived Thread
sxdxca : 3/22/2018 1:28 am
"Darnold had one of the best pro days I've ever seen".....
[Joel Klatt Fox Sports]:
"He had one of the most, I would say, best pro days I've seen in a long time. And in large part due to the rain because Colin, here's the thing, these pro days, there's no adversity for all these guys. I've gone around and seen all of them, I even went to Fargo, North Dakota to see your boy, Carson Wentz, there is no adversity for these quarterbacks on their pro days."
"And then all of a sudden, here we get to USC, it never rains in California and there is a torrential rain storm. And Sam Darnold wanted this, he was praying for rain so that he could have some level of adversity and go out there and show the NFL community that he can throw the ball when it's wet, when the conditions are inclement. And he was fantastic, he was ripping it, man."
[OP adds]:
In my opinion after seeing Darnold at his pro day , (which I saw the video by the way) , he was so impressive , the Giants realize he's the best player in this draft , and he is going to be a Hall Of Fame QB and star.
Unfortunately , I don't think the Browns will trade with the Giants , there's no way Cleveland lets this guy go.
thread - ( New Window )
Do you think teams dont evaluate 365 days a year? It's all media driven nonsense.
Maye is the prize. Schoen knows it. Filter the BS Schoen has been all over Maye since last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ is available for the vikings broncos or raiders without a trade up.
I feel this isn't really accurate. Going into the season Maye was high but as the college year went on he didn't help himself especially with Daniels having an unreal year. I wouldn't say he hurt himeself but nothing he did this year or this offseason helped him.
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Maye was a consensus 1A to Caleb all year. What has he done to drop behind a guy like JJMcCarthy since January? Nothing.
Do you think teams dont evaluate 365 days a year? It's all media driven nonsense.
Maye is the prize. Schoen knows it. Filter the BS Schoen has been all over Maye since last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ is available for the vikings broncos or raiders without a trade up.
I feel this isn't really accurate. Going into the season Maye was high but as the college year went on he didn't help himself especially with Daniels having an unreal year. I wouldn't say he hurt himeself but nothing he did this year or this offseason helped him.
So as of January 10th 2024 or so you believe there were teams that had JJ McCarthy ahead of Maye?
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In comment 16478416 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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Maye was a consensus 1A to Caleb all year. What has he done to drop behind a guy like JJMcCarthy since January? Nothing.
Do you think teams dont evaluate 365 days a year? It's all media driven nonsense.
Maye is the prize. Schoen knows it. Filter the BS Schoen has been all over Maye since last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ is available for the vikings broncos or raiders without a trade up.
I feel this isn't really accurate. Going into the season Maye was high but as the college year went on he didn't help himself especially with Daniels having an unreal year. I wouldn't say he hurt himeself but nothing he did this year or this offseason helped him.
So as of January 10th 2024 or so you believe there were teams that had JJ McCarthy ahead of Maye?
Not what I said. What I said was Maye didn't help himself this year and left the window open to not only fall behikd Williams but also let Daniels pass him too. Now you have McCarthy win a championship and kill the interviews. It is Maye sliding back from where people thought he would have been just as much as McCarthy improving his stock. As Sy and many others like Phil Simms said, at first glance nobody thought McCarthy was that high but after really breaking down the video, he changed a lot of minds. Then you have Maye with some really good video but also some really bad video of missing wide open receivers and having shitty mechanics. It scares teams off.
I have no conviction...I blow with the wind...
I think we need to go QB being that we are picking where we are. I think both guys are going to be pretty good pros with Maye having the higher ceiling.
However, I am prepared for Nabers or Odunze.
A trade down would actually shock me a little.
Me too Robbie, me too.
Gee, what would we do without this razor sharp analysis?
Here is a poster who will be bitching no matter what the Giants do.
I'd trade up to 4 for either one and I hope that's Schoen's plan too.
Honestly the push by some for Nabers or Odunze to me seems like buying high performance sport tires while still owning a Ford escort..
Honestly the push by some for Nabers or Odunze to me seems like buying high performance sport tires while still owning a Ford escort..
Forced as in trading the farm to move up. At 6? I'm fine with it.
There is only one and that is McCarthy.
They all have strong arms but both Maye and Penix are inaccurate in the mid-game.
Late climbers are suspect.
Late climbers are suspect.
He was projected between pick 13 and 2nd round
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In comment 16478444 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 16478416 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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Maye was a consensus 1A to Caleb all year. What has he done to drop behind a guy like JJMcCarthy since January? Nothing.
Do you think teams dont evaluate 365 days a year? It's all media driven nonsense.
Maye is the prize. Schoen knows it. Filter the BS Schoen has been all over Maye since last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ is available for the vikings broncos or raiders without a trade up.
I feel this isn't really accurate. Going into the season Maye was high but as the college year went on he didn't help himself especially with Daniels having an unreal year. I wouldn't say he hurt himeself but nothing he did this year or this offseason helped him.
So as of January 10th 2024 or so you believe there were teams that had JJ McCarthy ahead of Maye?
Not what I said. What I said was Maye didn't help himself this year and left the window open to not only fall behikd Williams but also let Daniels pass him too. Now you have McCarthy win a championship and kill the interviews. It is Maye sliding back from where people thought he would have been just as much as McCarthy improving his stock. As Sy and many others like Phil Simms said, at first glance nobody thought McCarthy was that high but after really breaking down the video, he changed a lot of minds. Then you have Maye with some really good video but also some really bad video of missing wide open receivers and having shitty mechanics. It scares teams off.
I dont buy it. You make it seem like people only watched video of mccarthy after the season ended you know it doesnt work like that.
The working narrative is that he blew the socks off of teams on the board during interviews. That's great but Dan Jones is a really bright guy also.
For the record im good with either but i dont see a world where schoen passes on maye to take mccarthy.
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In comment 16478455 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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In comment 16478444 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 16478416 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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Maye was a consensus 1A to Caleb all year. What has he done to drop behind a guy like JJMcCarthy since January? Nothing.
Do you think teams dont evaluate 365 days a year? It's all media driven nonsense.
Maye is the prize. Schoen knows it. Filter the BS Schoen has been all over Maye since last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ is available for the vikings broncos or raiders without a trade up.
I feel this isn't really accurate. Going into the season Maye was high but as the college year went on he didn't help himself especially with Daniels having an unreal year. I wouldn't say he hurt himeself but nothing he did this year or this offseason helped him.
So as of January 10th 2024 or so you believe there were teams that had JJ McCarthy ahead of Maye?
Not what I said. What I said was Maye didn't help himself this year and left the window open to not only fall behikd Williams but also let Daniels pass him too. Now you have McCarthy win a championship and kill the interviews. It is Maye sliding back from where people thought he would have been just as much as McCarthy improving his stock. As Sy and many others like Phil Simms said, at first glance nobody thought McCarthy was that high but after really breaking down the video, he changed a lot of minds. Then you have Maye with some really good video but also some really bad video of missing wide open receivers and having shitty mechanics. It scares teams off.
I dont buy it. You make it seem like people only watched video of mccarthy after the season ended you know it doesnt work like that.
The working narrative is that he blew the socks off of teams on the board during interviews. That's great but Dan Jones is a really bright guy also.
For the record im good with either but i dont see a world where schoen passes on maye to take mccarthy.
I agree ultimately with what you are sayjng with regard to us taking Maye and liking him over JJM. All I am saying is Maye only has to look in the mirror as to where he is where he is. That is all.
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In comment 16478455 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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In comment 16478444 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 16478416 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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Maye was a consensus 1A to Caleb all year. What has he done to drop behind a guy like JJMcCarthy since January? Nothing.
Do you think teams dont evaluate 365 days a year? It's all media driven nonsense.
Maye is the prize. Schoen knows it. Filter the BS Schoen has been all over Maye since last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ is available for the vikings broncos or raiders without a trade up.
I feel this isn't really accurate. Going into the season Maye was high but as the college year went on he didn't help himself especially with Daniels having an unreal year. I wouldn't say he hurt himeself but nothing he did this year or this offseason helped him.
So as of January 10th 2024 or so you believe there were teams that had JJ McCarthy ahead of Maye?
Not what I said. What I said was Maye didn't help himself this year and left the window open to not only fall behikd Williams but also let Daniels pass him too. Now you have McCarthy win a championship and kill the interviews. It is Maye sliding back from where people thought he would have been just as much as McCarthy improving his stock. As Sy and many others like Phil Simms said, at first glance nobody thought McCarthy was that high but after really breaking down the video, he changed a lot of minds. Then you have Maye with some really good video but also some really bad video of missing wide open receivers and having shitty mechanics. It scares teams off.
I dont buy it. You make it seem like people only watched video of mccarthy after the season ended you know it doesnt work like that.
The working narrative is that he blew the socks off of teams on the board during interviews. That's great but Dan Jones is a really bright guy also.
For the record im good with either but i dont see a world where schoen passes on maye to take mccarthy.
You're talking about pundits that just follow what they hear. Then they start hearing McCarthy is liked more by real professional nfl talent evaluators and the pundits say he's rising.
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But if we don’t improve the rest of the offense - it will be irrelevant.
Here is a poster who will be bitching no matter what the Giants do.
Sorry you must be confused with the constant bitching and complaining of Go Terps or ThomasG.
This team has sucked of putting a competent team around a QB for nearly a dozen years. I just said I’ll be fine taking either. But if we continue surrounding them with shit players - it won’t matter.
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But if we don’t improve the rest of the offense - it will be irrelevant.
Gee, what would we do without this razor sharp analysis?
Be the same team that we have been for over 12 years.
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In comment 16478478 JT039 said:
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But if we don’t improve the rest of the offense - it will be irrelevant.
Here is a poster who will be bitching no matter what the Giants do.
Sorry you must be confused with the constant bitching and complaining of Go Terps or ThomasG.
This team has sucked of putting a competent team around a QB for nearly a dozen years. I just said I’ll be fine taking either. But if we continue surrounding them with shit players - it won’t matter.
Never a Kleenex around when you need one, huh?
My apologies.
McCarthy is a winner at all levels.
He is a dog. His teammates and his coaches love him.
He is tough endured himself to his teammates playing hurt.
In 2018 McCarthy fractured his thumb. He could barely hold the football, yet despite the injury, McCarthy suited up for a state championship game in high school.
At Spring practice, on March 6, 2022, McCarthy injured his throwing shoulder. It was expected that he would have surgery to correct the issue. Instead, he rehabbed and played the entire 2022 season injured. The shoulder did not fully heal until March of 2023.
On November 11, 2023, vs. Penn State McCarthy had a grade 1 pedal high ankle sprain. Yet he played threw the injury and was not healthy until the championship game vs. Alabama
Sometimes you need a player who wills you to win.
Intangibles mean something. And availability means everything.
My apologies.
You sure think about him a lot. He must really have gotten to you.
That being said, I haven’t committed to anyone and am just rooting for the Giants to make the right choice. I will see the videos later and support whoever we take.
I stopped pulling for specific picks after I was sure Ron Dayne was the next greatest running back and Aaron Gibson needed to be a Giant. II get more peace not building anyone up in my head.
Neither kid seems to be an asshole as of yet. So I don't have a horse in that race. Maye supposedly has better physical tools. So what? Marino had a WAY better arm than Montana and Peyton Manning. So did Simms. JJM has more than enough physical tools. More than many successful QBs. I don't care about any of that as long as a guy has enough.
My ONLY concern for "IF QB," is that Schoen and Daboll get it fucking right -- like they did with Josh Allen. Allen was a boom or bust prospect. Most of those guys turn out to be busts. Most 1st round QBs in general, turn out to be busts.
I really hope that whatever they saw that got them to go ALL IN for Allen, was a repeatable process/eye for talent rather than just dumb luck. Bill Walsh (who was considered pretty good at identifying QB talent) thought Jake Plummer was the second coming of Montana.
Luck aside, the Giants can't pick a QB just to pick a QB. They need to have MASSIVE CONVICTION about whoever it is. That in the worst case scenario, the guy's FLOOR is better than (what they feel) Jones' is now.
If they don't have that conviction (or can't get it done, which is a strong possibility), they should take a blue chip WR.
Apparently you just stick with Daniel Jones until Patrick Mahomes comes along. What's funny is Mahomes was a polarizing prospect.
Yeah we know
Soooooo....JJ
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Do we need to have massive conviction to draft other positions, or is it just at QB?
Apparently you just stick with Daniel Jones until Patrick Mahomes comes along. What's funny is Mahomes was a polarizing prospect.
I'm not sure anyone would have wanted to draft Mahomes because at the time it wasn't guaranteed that he'd be good. Safe to just stick with forked Eli.
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In comment 16478478 JT039 said:
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But if we don’t improve the rest of the offense - it will be irrelevant.
Here is a poster who will be bitching no matter what the Giants do.
Sorry you must be confused with the constant bitching and complaining of Go Terps or ThomasG.
This team has sucked of putting a competent team around a QB for nearly a dozen years. I just said I’ll be fine taking either. But if we continue surrounding them with shit players - it won’t matter.
I'm with ya..it's why I.am not excited about taking either WR or QB
Get more picks via trade down
I think I’d just say I prefer whichever one we can get with a lesser or no trade up.
If it came down to trading up to 3 or 4 for Maye or McCarthy at 6, I’d prefer the latter. The opposite would be true as well.
That’s why Schoen has to really be aware of his surroundings and why he gets paid the big bucks. In a way he has to not only know NYG’s plan but others too.
All positions especially when the team is at the crossroads we are right now.
I feel like 22 was a thousand years ago and don't want to screw this up...
#6 IA a premium pick and we seemed to have quasi whiffed on the 5 and 7 we had 2 yrs ago
But your point is a valid one
And if you're wrong on your non-QB 1st round pick, it sucks, but it's not quite as devastating.
But if you only have 6 picks, and you have a roster full of glaring holes that need upgrading, and you're talking about using your high, 1st round pick -- and possibly more picks to draft a QB, YEAH, you better have a massive conviction about the guy -- that he's gonna be better than the guy you have now, and you better fucking be right about it.
but
as of now I'm not excited about either of them. Nix or Penix either. Daniels would get me much more interested
But just a very smnall belief that JJM will make better decisions while Maya is more electric. I lean twoard smarter/better game mgr/ decion maker when looking at these 2. .
So I don’t HATE the idea of him at 6. He’s an upgrade and has potential to be a good starting QB. But I see a guy with a B+ ceiling, and I’m not sure if that’s a guy you sell the farm to move up and get. Maye, to me, at least has top 5-8 QB ability and upside.
I still have faith in this front office and coaching staff, especially with developing a QB.
I can't get past this either. The coach didn't let him throw the ball for a reason. And, I'm not buying the "they had a good run game" excuse. I remember watching Josh Allen in college, saying there is the next Giants QB. He looked the part. You could see had special traits. Even watching Caleb Williams, you can see it. I don't see anything special with JJ.
This!!
You take the guy who HAILS from Quarterback U.
McCarthy please.
With all that said, I still prefer Maye.
Both scare the hell out of me though. Both Harrison and Nabers seems to be much safer picks with much higher upside.
Maye is my QB1 in the entire Draft. McCarthy is my QB4. I think McCarthy is a first round QB, but with him, it's mostly projection. He simply doesn't have the volume of throws (as well as clutch moments) that the other QBs have, which makes him exceedingly difficult to evaluate. Betting on a true unknown is scary, let alone at 6th overall.
Look at you, Greg. I thought you hated Maye. I'm surprised you dislike McCarthy more.
Sure, he may have been. And Sam Howell might've been the #1 overall pick if he declared early too. Same with Connor Cook. Hell, look at Spencer Rattler.
Lots of shit can happen next season.
Whether we go Maye or McCarthy, I think Drew Lock should 100% start the season unless the rookie QB picks up things fast and impresses.
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I am a Michigan fan. I think the McCarthy criticism is a little unwarranted. If he were to come out next year, he might be the #1 overall pick.
Sure, he may have been. And Sam Howell might've been the #1 overall pick if he declared early too. Same with Connor Cook. Hell, look at Spencer Rattler.
Lots of shit can happen next season.
Whether we go Maye or McCarthy, I think Drew Lock should 100% start the season unless the rookie QB picks up things fast and impresses.
You're really comparing McCarthy to Connor Cook and Sam Howell?
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If you're going after a QB at the top of the draft, you go after the high ceiling guy, not Johnny Game Manager
Look at you, Greg. I thought you hated Maye. I'm surprised you dislike McCarthy more.
This is my sentiment. If your going to gamble make sure it's worth the payout. Swing for the fences.
I don't dislike Maye, but I've always thought he has a significant risk of busting. I do agree though that he has upper echelon tools for a QB and he has a fairly high ceiling if he can fix his flaws. Maybe Daboll can coach it out of him, I don't know.
He's not my ideal QB pick, but I'd rather him than McCarthy because I don't see the point of drafting a high floor/mid ceiling prospect at #6, or trading up for him. As that quote from a coach/scout from another thread said, if Jim Harbaugh truly believed all his blather about how incredible McCarthy is, Michigan would have thrown the ball more.
As far as QB tools I lean towards Maye.
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Look at you, Greg. I thought you hated Maye. I'm surprised you dislike McCarthy more.
As that quote from a coach/scout from another thread said, if Jim Harbaugh truly believed all his blather about how incredible McCarthy is, Michigan would have thrown the ball more.
I don't agree. Harbaugh prefers to run - and it was safe for them to blow you out while just running the ball. And when you are going against the super tough teams-- you work all year as a strength of teh run, the coahc loves to run, yet all of a sudden you are going to change your style especially if you think your team is superior when it runs?
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In comment 16479001 Vin_Cuccs said:
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I am a Michigan fan. I think the McCarthy criticism is a little unwarranted. If he were to come out next year, he might be the #1 overall pick.
Sure, he may have been. And Sam Howell might've been the #1 overall pick if he declared early too. Same with Connor Cook. Hell, look at Spencer Rattler.
Lots of shit can happen next season.
Whether we go Maye or McCarthy, I think Drew Lock should 100% start the season unless the rookie QB picks up things fast and impresses.
You're really comparing McCarthy to Connor Cook and Sam Howell?
I'm saying that the premise that McCarthy would've been #1 overall in 2025 had he returned to school is questionable.