I think we need to go QB being that we are picking where we are. I think both guys are going to be pretty good pros with Maye having the higher ceiling.
with Eli, Ben, and Rivers and liking all of them but Rivers the worst. Then I see this class and it is basically trying to convince myself that all these QBs will turn out great. I know it is easier to play QB in today's NFL. The rules dictate that. I am just not crazy about any and that includes every QB this year. I know we need a QB but it feels forced at this point. Look at the year we beat Washington and missed out on Chase Young. We were all pissed but we landed Andrew Thomas. That is how I feel this year. Let's not force it. Let the draft come to us. That is how I feel.
with Eli, Ben, and Rivers and liking all of them but Rivers the worst. Then I see this class and it is basically trying to convince myself that all these QBs will turn out great. I know it is easier to play QB in today's NFL. The rules dictate that. I am just not crazy about any and that includes every QB this year. I know we need a QB but it feels forced at this point. Look at the year we beat Washington and missed out on Chase Young. We were all pissed but we landed Andrew Thomas. That is how I feel this year. Let's not force it. Let the draft come to us. That is how I feel.
Me too Robbie, me too.
McCarthy. He seems to have better mental make-up than Maye
J.J. McCARTHY, Michigan (6-2 ½, 215, no 40, 1): Of the top four quarterbacks only McCarthy truly elevated his team. “He’s got major weaknesses but there’s something about that kid that is absolutely special,” one scout said. “He completely changed that rivalry (Ohio State-Michigan). He singlehandedly won both of those games. The one in Columbus (in 2022), people don’t realize some of those throws he made in that game. Then his ability to never get off the field and extend plays is uncanny. All this talk that Michigan built him and it was (Jim) Harbaugh and the O-line. Their O-line sucked this year … The 9-inch hand and the way he throws the ball really scares me. It’s one speed. He has no ability to layer balls in between defenders. Everything’s a fastball. His deep balls are line drives, which is very unfriendly to receivers especially when he gets to this level and it’s contested and not just wide open. But there’s magic. There are these guys that seem to always do this and it always works. The throws by Mahomes early in his career when he’d throw into coverage and it somehow landed in the lap of the Kansas City guy. I don’t know if he’s got this magic to him or if it’s just luck.
Feeling like this is forced and yet 4 weeks ago would have been fine with Maye at 6.. Some of this feeling of angst seems to be tied to JJM, ie you don't think he is worthy of the pick but what if the Giants do?
Honestly the push by some for Nabers or Odunze to me seems like buying high performance sport tires while still owning a Ford escort..
Feeling like this is forced and yet 4 weeks ago would have been fine with Maye at 6.. Some of this feeling of angst seems to be tied to JJM, ie you don't think he is worthy of the pick but what if the Giants do?
Honestly the push by some for Nabers or Odunze to me seems like buying high performance sport tires while still owning a Ford escort..
Forced as in trading the farm to move up. At 6? I'm fine with it.
the Giants are most likely to trade up for. If he slides past three(and that's because i don't think the Patriots are trading back )I firmly believe he's theirs at 4.
Which of these QBs is mobile enough to avoid pressure, can extend plays, thrives under pressure, has played in a pro-style offense, has played under center, and has called plays in the huddle?
There is only one and that is McCarthy.
They all have strong arms but both Maye and Penix are inaccurate in the mid-game.
…and it’s not close. McCarthy was a 2 round pick at best during the season for good reason. He looked scared against PSU and got bailed out by his RBs. Chop Robinson had him seeing ghosts.
…and it’s not close. McCarthy was a 2 round pick at best during the season for good reason. He looked scared against PSU and got bailed out by his RBs. Chop Robinson had him seeing ghosts.
In comment 16478455 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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In comment 16478444 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 16478416 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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Maye was a consensus 1A to Caleb all year. What has he done to drop behind a guy like JJMcCarthy since January? Nothing.
Do you think teams dont evaluate 365 days a year? It's all media driven nonsense.
Maye is the prize. Schoen knows it. Filter the BS Schoen has been all over Maye since last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ is available for the vikings broncos or raiders without a trade up.
I feel this isn't really accurate. Going into the season Maye was high but as the college year went on he didn't help himself especially with Daniels having an unreal year. I wouldn't say he hurt himeself but nothing he did this year or this offseason helped him.
So as of January 10th 2024 or so you believe there were teams that had JJ McCarthy ahead of Maye?
Not what I said. What I said was Maye didn't help himself this year and left the window open to not only fall behikd Williams but also let Daniels pass him too. Now you have McCarthy win a championship and kill the interviews. It is Maye sliding back from where people thought he would have been just as much as McCarthy improving his stock. As Sy and many others like Phil Simms said, at first glance nobody thought McCarthy was that high but after really breaking down the video, he changed a lot of minds. Then you have Maye with some really good video but also some really bad video of missing wide open receivers and having shitty mechanics. It scares teams off.
I dont buy it. You make it seem like people only watched video of mccarthy after the season ended you know it doesnt work like that.
The working narrative is that he blew the socks off of teams on the board during interviews. That's great but Dan Jones is a really bright guy also.
For the record im good with either but i dont see a world where schoen passes on maye to take mccarthy.
I like his deep ball prowess. JJM cannot throw the deep ball effectively. I will add, though, that football games are won in the trenches. Without an effective OL we will struggle with John Elway.
In comment 16478614 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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In comment 16478459 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 16478455 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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In comment 16478444 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 16478416 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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Maye was a consensus 1A to Caleb all year. What has he done to drop behind a guy like JJMcCarthy since January? Nothing.
Do you think teams dont evaluate 365 days a year? It's all media driven nonsense.
Maye is the prize. Schoen knows it. Filter the BS Schoen has been all over Maye since last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ is available for the vikings broncos or raiders without a trade up.
I feel this isn't really accurate. Going into the season Maye was high but as the college year went on he didn't help himself especially with Daniels having an unreal year. I wouldn't say he hurt himeself but nothing he did this year or this offseason helped him.
So as of January 10th 2024 or so you believe there were teams that had JJ McCarthy ahead of Maye?
Not what I said. What I said was Maye didn't help himself this year and left the window open to not only fall behikd Williams but also let Daniels pass him too. Now you have McCarthy win a championship and kill the interviews. It is Maye sliding back from where people thought he would have been just as much as McCarthy improving his stock. As Sy and many others like Phil Simms said, at first glance nobody thought McCarthy was that high but after really breaking down the video, he changed a lot of minds. Then you have Maye with some really good video but also some really bad video of missing wide open receivers and having shitty mechanics. It scares teams off.
I dont buy it. You make it seem like people only watched video of mccarthy after the season ended you know it doesnt work like that.
The working narrative is that he blew the socks off of teams on the board during interviews. That's great but Dan Jones is a really bright guy also.
For the record im good with either but i dont see a world where schoen passes on maye to take mccarthy.
I agree ultimately with what you are sayjng with regard to us taking Maye and liking him over JJM. All I am saying is Maye only has to look in the mirror as to where he is where he is. That is all.
In comment 16478614 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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In comment 16478459 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 16478455 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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In comment 16478444 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 16478416 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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Maye was a consensus 1A to Caleb all year. What has he done to drop behind a guy like JJMcCarthy since January? Nothing.
Do you think teams dont evaluate 365 days a year? It's all media driven nonsense.
Maye is the prize. Schoen knows it. Filter the BS Schoen has been all over Maye since last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ is available for the vikings broncos or raiders without a trade up.
I feel this isn't really accurate. Going into the season Maye was high but as the college year went on he didn't help himself especially with Daniels having an unreal year. I wouldn't say he hurt himeself but nothing he did this year or this offseason helped him.
So as of January 10th 2024 or so you believe there were teams that had JJ McCarthy ahead of Maye?
Not what I said. What I said was Maye didn't help himself this year and left the window open to not only fall behikd Williams but also let Daniels pass him too. Now you have McCarthy win a championship and kill the interviews. It is Maye sliding back from where people thought he would have been just as much as McCarthy improving his stock. As Sy and many others like Phil Simms said, at first glance nobody thought McCarthy was that high but after really breaking down the video, he changed a lot of minds. Then you have Maye with some really good video but also some really bad video of missing wide open receivers and having shitty mechanics. It scares teams off.
I dont buy it. You make it seem like people only watched video of mccarthy after the season ended you know it doesnt work like that.
The working narrative is that he blew the socks off of teams on the board during interviews. That's great but Dan Jones is a really bright guy also.
For the record im good with either but i dont see a world where schoen passes on maye to take mccarthy.
You're talking about pundits that just follow what they hear. Then they start hearing McCarthy is liked more by real professional nfl talent evaluators and the pundits say he's rising.
But if we don’t improve the rest of the offense - it will be irrelevant.
Here is a poster who will be bitching no matter what the Giants do.
Sorry you must be confused with the constant bitching and complaining of Go Terps or ThomasG.
This team has sucked of putting a competent team around a QB for nearly a dozen years. I just said I’ll be fine taking either. But if we continue surrounding them with shit players - it won’t matter.
But if we don’t improve the rest of the offense - it will be irrelevant.
Here is a poster who will be bitching no matter what the Giants do.
Sorry you must be confused with the constant bitching and complaining of Go Terps or ThomasG.
This team has sucked of putting a competent team around a QB for nearly a dozen years. I just said I’ll be fine taking either. But if we continue surrounding them with shit players - it won’t matter.
Maye just feels like Jones with a better arm.
McCarthy is a winner at all levels.
He is a dog. His teammates and his coaches love him.
He is tough endured himself to his teammates playing hurt.
In 2018 McCarthy fractured his thumb. He could barely hold the football, yet despite the injury, McCarthy suited up for a state championship game in high school.
At Spring practice, on March 6, 2022, McCarthy injured his throwing shoulder. It was expected that he would have surgery to correct the issue. Instead, he rehabbed and played the entire 2022 season injured. The shoulder did not fully heal until March of 2023.
On November 11, 2023, vs. Penn State McCarthy had a grade 1 pedal high ankle sprain. Yet he played threw the injury and was not healthy until the championship game vs. Alabama
Sometimes you need a player who wills you to win.
Intangibles mean something. And availability means everything.
Never saw Maye play and only saw McCarthybplay in the championship game and I liked some things I saw of Penix better.
That being said, I haven’t committed to anyone and am just rooting for the Giants to make the right choice. I will see the videos later and support whoever we take.
I stopped pulling for specific picks after I was sure Ron Dayne was the next greatest running back and Aaron Gibson needed to be a Giant. II get more peace not building anyone up in my head.
If they both turn out to be superstars, I want the one who can stay healthy and on the field more -- like Eli.
Neither kid seems to be an asshole as of yet. So I don't have a horse in that race. Maye supposedly has better physical tools. So what? Marino had a WAY better arm than Montana and Peyton Manning. So did Simms. JJM has more than enough physical tools. More than many successful QBs. I don't care about any of that as long as a guy has enough.
My ONLY concern for "IF QB," is that Schoen and Daboll get it fucking right -- like they did with Josh Allen. Allen was a boom or bust prospect. Most of those guys turn out to be busts. Most 1st round QBs in general, turn out to be busts.
I really hope that whatever they saw that got them to go ALL IN for Allen, was a repeatable process/eye for talent rather than just dumb luck. Bill Walsh (who was considered pretty good at identifying QB talent) thought Jake Plummer was the second coming of Montana.
Luck aside, the Giants can't pick a QB just to pick a QB. They need to have MASSIVE CONVICTION about whoever it is. That in the worst case scenario, the guy's FLOOR is better than (what they feel) Jones' is now.
If they don't have that conviction (or can't get it done, which is a strong possibility), they should take a blue chip WR.
I have no conviction...I blow with the wind...
I think we need to go QB being that we are picking where we are. I think both guys are going to be pretty good pros with Maye having the higher ceiling.
However, I am prepared for Nabers or Odunze.
A trade down would actually shock me a little.
Me too Robbie, me too.
Gee, what would we do without this razor sharp analysis?
Here is a poster who will be bitching no matter what the Giants do.
I'd trade up to 4 for either one and I hope that's Schoen's plan too.
Honestly the push by some for Nabers or Odunze to me seems like buying high performance sport tires while still owning a Ford escort..
Honestly the push by some for Nabers or Odunze to me seems like buying high performance sport tires while still owning a Ford escort..
Forced as in trading the farm to move up. At 6? I'm fine with it.
There is only one and that is McCarthy.
They all have strong arms but both Maye and Penix are inaccurate in the mid-game.
Late climbers are suspect.
Late climbers are suspect.
He was projected between pick 13 and 2nd round
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In comment 16478444 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 16478416 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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Maye was a consensus 1A to Caleb all year. What has he done to drop behind a guy like JJMcCarthy since January? Nothing.
Do you think teams dont evaluate 365 days a year? It's all media driven nonsense.
Maye is the prize. Schoen knows it. Filter the BS Schoen has been all over Maye since last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ is available for the vikings broncos or raiders without a trade up.
I feel this isn't really accurate. Going into the season Maye was high but as the college year went on he didn't help himself especially with Daniels having an unreal year. I wouldn't say he hurt himeself but nothing he did this year or this offseason helped him.
So as of January 10th 2024 or so you believe there were teams that had JJ McCarthy ahead of Maye?
Not what I said. What I said was Maye didn't help himself this year and left the window open to not only fall behikd Williams but also let Daniels pass him too. Now you have McCarthy win a championship and kill the interviews. It is Maye sliding back from where people thought he would have been just as much as McCarthy improving his stock. As Sy and many others like Phil Simms said, at first glance nobody thought McCarthy was that high but after really breaking down the video, he changed a lot of minds. Then you have Maye with some really good video but also some really bad video of missing wide open receivers and having shitty mechanics. It scares teams off.
I dont buy it. You make it seem like people only watched video of mccarthy after the season ended you know it doesnt work like that.
The working narrative is that he blew the socks off of teams on the board during interviews. That's great but Dan Jones is a really bright guy also.
For the record im good with either but i dont see a world where schoen passes on maye to take mccarthy.
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In comment 16478455 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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In comment 16478444 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 16478416 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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Maye was a consensus 1A to Caleb all year. What has he done to drop behind a guy like JJMcCarthy since January? Nothing.
Do you think teams dont evaluate 365 days a year? It's all media driven nonsense.
Maye is the prize. Schoen knows it. Filter the BS Schoen has been all over Maye since last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ is available for the vikings broncos or raiders without a trade up.
I feel this isn't really accurate. Going into the season Maye was high but as the college year went on he didn't help himself especially with Daniels having an unreal year. I wouldn't say he hurt himeself but nothing he did this year or this offseason helped him.
So as of January 10th 2024 or so you believe there were teams that had JJ McCarthy ahead of Maye?
Not what I said. What I said was Maye didn't help himself this year and left the window open to not only fall behikd Williams but also let Daniels pass him too. Now you have McCarthy win a championship and kill the interviews. It is Maye sliding back from where people thought he would have been just as much as McCarthy improving his stock. As Sy and many others like Phil Simms said, at first glance nobody thought McCarthy was that high but after really breaking down the video, he changed a lot of minds. Then you have Maye with some really good video but also some really bad video of missing wide open receivers and having shitty mechanics. It scares teams off.
I dont buy it. You make it seem like people only watched video of mccarthy after the season ended you know it doesnt work like that.
The working narrative is that he blew the socks off of teams on the board during interviews. That's great but Dan Jones is a really bright guy also.
For the record im good with either but i dont see a world where schoen passes on maye to take mccarthy.
I agree ultimately with what you are sayjng with regard to us taking Maye and liking him over JJM. All I am saying is Maye only has to look in the mirror as to where he is where he is. That is all.
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In comment 16478455 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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In comment 16478444 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 16478416 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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Maye was a consensus 1A to Caleb all year. What has he done to drop behind a guy like JJMcCarthy since January? Nothing.
Do you think teams dont evaluate 365 days a year? It's all media driven nonsense.
Maye is the prize. Schoen knows it. Filter the BS Schoen has been all over Maye since last summer. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ is available for the vikings broncos or raiders without a trade up.
I feel this isn't really accurate. Going into the season Maye was high but as the college year went on he didn't help himself especially with Daniels having an unreal year. I wouldn't say he hurt himeself but nothing he did this year or this offseason helped him.
So as of January 10th 2024 or so you believe there were teams that had JJ McCarthy ahead of Maye?
Not what I said. What I said was Maye didn't help himself this year and left the window open to not only fall behikd Williams but also let Daniels pass him too. Now you have McCarthy win a championship and kill the interviews. It is Maye sliding back from where people thought he would have been just as much as McCarthy improving his stock. As Sy and many others like Phil Simms said, at first glance nobody thought McCarthy was that high but after really breaking down the video, he changed a lot of minds. Then you have Maye with some really good video but also some really bad video of missing wide open receivers and having shitty mechanics. It scares teams off.
I dont buy it. You make it seem like people only watched video of mccarthy after the season ended you know it doesnt work like that.
The working narrative is that he blew the socks off of teams on the board during interviews. That's great but Dan Jones is a really bright guy also.
For the record im good with either but i dont see a world where schoen passes on maye to take mccarthy.
You're talking about pundits that just follow what they hear. Then they start hearing McCarthy is liked more by real professional nfl talent evaluators and the pundits say he's rising.
Quote:
But if we don’t improve the rest of the offense - it will be irrelevant.
Here is a poster who will be bitching no matter what the Giants do.
Sorry you must be confused with the constant bitching and complaining of Go Terps or ThomasG.
This team has sucked of putting a competent team around a QB for nearly a dozen years. I just said I’ll be fine taking either. But if we continue surrounding them with shit players - it won’t matter.
Quote:
But if we don’t improve the rest of the offense - it will be irrelevant.
Gee, what would we do without this razor sharp analysis?
Be the same team that we have been for over 12 years.
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In comment 16478478 JT039 said:
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But if we don’t improve the rest of the offense - it will be irrelevant.
Here is a poster who will be bitching no matter what the Giants do.
Sorry you must be confused with the constant bitching and complaining of Go Terps or ThomasG.
This team has sucked of putting a competent team around a QB for nearly a dozen years. I just said I’ll be fine taking either. But if we continue surrounding them with shit players - it won’t matter.
Never a Kleenex around when you need one, huh?
My apologies.
McCarthy is a winner at all levels.
He is a dog. His teammates and his coaches love him.
He is tough endured himself to his teammates playing hurt.
In 2018 McCarthy fractured his thumb. He could barely hold the football, yet despite the injury, McCarthy suited up for a state championship game in high school.
At Spring practice, on March 6, 2022, McCarthy injured his throwing shoulder. It was expected that he would have surgery to correct the issue. Instead, he rehabbed and played the entire 2022 season injured. The shoulder did not fully heal until March of 2023.
On November 11, 2023, vs. Penn State McCarthy had a grade 1 pedal high ankle sprain. Yet he played threw the injury and was not healthy until the championship game vs. Alabama
Sometimes you need a player who wills you to win.
Intangibles mean something. And availability means everything.
My apologies.
You sure think about him a lot. He must really have gotten to you.
That being said, I haven’t committed to anyone and am just rooting for the Giants to make the right choice. I will see the videos later and support whoever we take.
I stopped pulling for specific picks after I was sure Ron Dayne was the next greatest running back and Aaron Gibson needed to be a Giant. II get more peace not building anyone up in my head.
Neither kid seems to be an asshole as of yet. So I don't have a horse in that race. Maye supposedly has better physical tools. So what? Marino had a WAY better arm than Montana and Peyton Manning. So did Simms. JJM has more than enough physical tools. More than many successful QBs. I don't care about any of that as long as a guy has enough.
My ONLY concern for "IF QB," is that Schoen and Daboll get it fucking right -- like they did with Josh Allen. Allen was a boom or bust prospect. Most of those guys turn out to be busts. Most 1st round QBs in general, turn out to be busts.
I really hope that whatever they saw that got them to go ALL IN for Allen, was a repeatable process/eye for talent rather than just dumb luck. Bill Walsh (who was considered pretty good at identifying QB talent) thought Jake Plummer was the second coming of Montana.
Luck aside, the Giants can't pick a QB just to pick a QB. They need to have MASSIVE CONVICTION about whoever it is. That in the worst case scenario, the guy's FLOOR is better than (what they feel) Jones' is now.
If they don't have that conviction (or can't get it done, which is a strong possibility), they should take a blue chip WR.
Apparently you just stick with Daniel Jones until Patrick Mahomes comes along. What's funny is Mahomes was a polarizing prospect.