Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
Theres a golden rule in #NFLDraft reporting not to buy into info you hear the last week, when misdirection is highest. Im breaking it.
After a bunch of calls since Thurs, I believe:
- Drake Maye is #Giants most likely QB pick of the top 4 (Not to say he’s their No.1-ranked QB)
- I think they’d be willing to trade up for him but sounds like #Patriots and #Commanders arent moving
- I think they would strongly consider trading down if JJ McCarthy is there at 6 and #Broncos and #Vikings want to trade up.
- I’d still bet 4 QBs go in top 5 picks and so Giants end up with a great WR. Id then watch Bo Nix and Michael Penix Jr
@MoveTheSticks left NYG out of McCarthy team list and it caught my attention because so many people were in my ear about Giants and JJ since NFL Combine
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trading down if McCarthy is there at 6 surprises me. While I've had it in my head Maye was their guy, I thought they'd at least be okay with McCarthy if he fell to 6.
That will be the biggest story on BBI if the Schoen passes on McCarthy and selects a non-QB at #6 or moves down.
In essence, and assuming there is no move for Penix or Nix, this will be the final declaration that they are very comfortable moving forward with Jones.
The draft now starts in New England at #3. If Wolf is as hot on McCarthy as I think he is, then the Maye will be in play at #6.
Supposedly it's Kraft that's really enamored with JJM.
it is simple
I don't think anyone is suggesting drafting Tanner Mordecai at 6...
But there is no way Schoen can know this.
Cards - NO
Chargers - YES
The Cardinals have 13 picks in this year's draft and want quality over quantity with their first pick this year. That guy is clearly MHJr. They'll be open to trading down if MHJr is gone 3rd, but that's not likely to happen. They're just trying to cover all their bases with Ossenfort coming out and saying they're open for business. MHJr will be a Cardinal if he's there at 4. Count on it.
The Chargers are a different case. If the Vikings have one of JJM and/or Maye available at 5 to trade up for, then I think a deal will happen. The Chargers can get a RT at 11 (Fuaga or Latham perhaps) and a WR at 23 (Thomas or Mitchell perhaps), which would be ideal for them.
The Giants would be up $chitt Creek IMO if the lone remaining QB they want (either Maye or JJM) is left over at 5. I don't think the Chargers will stay put and take Alt or Nabers at 5 in this scenario.
Totally possible. And if so, I'll have fingers crossed for Mara to blow it up so that top 10 pick is made by someone whose three year plan looks better than paying Daniel Jones and starting Drew Lock.
I also love the idea (generally) of taking a future 1st from a team that will ostensibly be starting a rookie QB in the season leading up to having their 1st round pick.
Again, this may also be smoke as they don't want Min/Den feeling like they have to trade up above them to get him so he'll fall to 6.
At the very least, Schoen has kept everyone guessing this draft cycle.
It be Lying Season...
The problem is at some point you have to consolidate an idea/vision for your roster that is aligned.
Adding a Nabers and having him be wasted with a QB abyss for 2-3 yrs is a problem and then he'll either demand to be traded or you've wasted a valuable playmaker on a cheap rookie deal and need to pay him 20-25m a year.
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In comment 16478992 Biteymax22 said:
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trading down if McCarthy is there at 6 surprises me. While I've had it in my head Maye was their guy, I thought they'd at least be okay with McCarthy if he fell to 6.
That will be the biggest story on BBI if the Schoen passes on McCarthy and selects a non-QB at #6 or moves down.
In essence, and assuming there is no move for Penix or Nix, this will be the final declaration that they are very comfortable moving forward with Jones.
The draft now starts in New England at #3. If Wolf is as hot on McCarthy as I think he is, then the Maye will be in play at #6.
Supposedly it's Kraft that's really enamored with JJM.
That's what I've read. Kraft is not very bright. He broadcasts his intentions VERY easily. The Head Coach, Jerod Mayo, is his guy. He didn't fuss about once Belichick was kicked to the curb, even when Vrabel was available. I think he think she needs a QB to kick start the rebuild and in order to sell the future promise of the team. This is also a chance for him to make a key decision at the most important position of the field and make his mark on his team after nearly a quarter century of seemingly taking a back seat. Maye doesn't seem to be their guy based on what we've heard for a while. I think JJM has won them over. They key is to get Kraft to buy in, and I think he has.
Punting is fine, but at least set yourself up to be strong players to move up next year by accumulating assets.
It's a real possibility. I would feel so much more confident in the Giants' chances of getting one of the QBs they like (Maye primarily and JJM secondarily) if they were picking 5th instead of 6th.
I think this is the unspoken reality of not taking a QB that a lot of NYG fans are not forecasting. It's easy for Mara to talk job security in April when offseason hope is running high, but if the season is over early again all that goes out the window. And as the losses pile up, the growing feeling will be that maybe a Vrabel or Ben Johnson starting fresh should be selecting their quarterback so we don't "screw up" the next QB with mid-rookie contract regime change.
it is simple
Sy, you refering to Maye or JJ?
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they won't have a shot at a QB they believe in, and would rather roll with Lock for '24. That figures to deliver another top 10 draft presence for NYG.
The problem is at some point you have to consolidate an idea/vision for your roster that is aligned.
Adding a Nabers and having him be wasted with a QB abyss for 2-3 yrs is a problem and then he'll either demand to be traded or you've wasted a valuable playmaker on a cheap rookie deal and need to pay him 20-25m a year.
I get it. But, I don't believe in JJ at #6 either. Would rather roll on building the foundation, as painful as it might be in the near future. Prefer Odunze over Nabers too.
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they won't have a shot at a QB they believe in, and would rather roll with Lock for '24. That figures to deliver another top 10 draft presence for NYG.
It's a real possibility. I would feel so much more confident in the Giants' chances of getting one of the QBs they like (Maye primarily and JJM secondarily) if they were picking 5th instead of 6th.
Did you enjoy those late season wins more than this?
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solve the Daniel Jones fiasco with another Daniel Jones caliber prospect
it is simple
McCarthy is one of the better QBs you've graded in recent years.
He's speaking from the perspective of Schoen hypothetically. If Schoen passed, then he obviously would be thinking like this. Realistically, Schoen doesn't think there's a DJ fiasco and still believes he can win a superbowl when healthy. I've been a huge supporter of Schoen, but he might have effed himself with the DJ contract and inability to admit the mistake. He will get his 3 year window for his 3 year plan, but it's not looking good right now at all.
He had pick 5 and 7 in his first draft. He came away with a good but not great pass rusher (if you take away his production vs the Commanders he looks extremely pedestrian, and too often he is a non factor). Then he took Evan Neal to play RT (a non premium position money wise) and remember Evan Neal did know athleticism drills. He passed on Garrett Wilson. Plus, the two tackles taken near Neal have been performing incomparably better. Wilson and Olave are great too.
Then in rd2 he took Wandale Robinson who I'm a fan of, but he is very small and a gadget player when George Pickens was on the board and many here including myself preferred him.
Then in rd3 he takes Ezeudu with pick 67 and Flott with pick 81. Flott has shown some flashes and Ezeudu is a project.
We had 5 picks in the top 81 including pick 5 and 7. What did we get?
I'm sorry, but things could go downhill fast if Schoen doesn't nail this draft and even if he nails the draft without getting a QB we will be in a very precarious place next offseason.
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In comment 16479224 JonC said:
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they won't have a shot at a QB they believe in, and would rather roll with Lock for '24. That figures to deliver another top 10 draft presence for NYG.
It's a real possibility. I would feel so much more confident in the Giants' chances of getting one of the QBs they like (Maye primarily and JJM secondarily) if they were picking 5th instead of 6th.
Did you enjoy those late season wins more than this?
We had 3 near wins and 3 near losses. They canceled out.
Failing to trade Saquon is another big mistake made by Schoen. I'm really starting to doubt him as GM. Even if Mara said he wants to keep him, doesn't want to give up, etc. Tell him this is your job and this is in the best interest of the team as his demands are not budging. Period, end of story.
I don't go back on the wins and losses, but trading Saquon likely puts us at pick 2, 3, or 5 at the worst.
Schoen might not have the cajones needed for this job quite frankly.
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they won't have a shot at a QB they believe in, and would rather roll with Lock for '24. That figures to deliver another top 10 draft presence for NYG.
Totally possible. And if so, I'll have fingers crossed for Mara to blow it up so that top 10 pick is made by someone whose three year plan looks better than paying Daniel Jones and starting Drew Lock.
+1
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In comment 16479224 JonC said:
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they won't have a shot at a QB they believe in, and would rather roll with Lock for '24. That figures to deliver another top 10 draft presence for NYG.
Totally possible. And if so, I'll have fingers crossed for Mara to blow it up so that top 10 pick is made by someone whose three year plan looks better than paying Daniel Jones and starting Drew Lock.
+1
I agree, the 3 year plan will have failed miserably in this situation. You could make the argument to give them one more offseason, but I wouldn't do it. Maybe if they had drafted some elite talent and had a foundation being built. That hasn't been happening though.
Alot of key projections are not delivering just yet at the level required for the team to begin to ascend. Also, still more talent needed all over the place.
Weis two reasons to justify taking a QB over Jones:
1) Only on the hook for one more year
2) His injury history is concerning
*But he still pushes the WR. Weis says Giants will jump all over Nabers.
Bob Papa just said the biggest issue with Jones is the NECK. It has been injured two of the last three years and with his running etc it has to be a concern.
When Papa is saying that, you know this is now the firm view. We'll take a QB, but only grudgingly. Everyone saves face.
"We believe in Daniel and we love the contract we signed him too. But the injuries! We need to think about not only our team, but Daniel and put his health first."
Punt on QB until next year and build other parts of the roster they need a ton of upgrades at other positions
And what if there is nobody obtainable who they have a conviction on next year? And then again in 2026?
If you never want to 'force QB' how long are you willing to wait to take one?
And what if there is nobody obtainable who they have a conviction on next year? And then again in 2026?
If you never want to 'force QB' how long are you willing to wait to take one?
Arch Manning will be available in 2026.
If we still need a QB, I have little doubt Mara will be wearing the GM hat for that draft... ;)
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Punt on QB until next year and build other parts of the roster they need a ton of upgrades at other positions
And what if there is nobody obtainable who they have a conviction on next year? And then again in 2026?
If you never want to 'force QB' how long are you willing to wait to take one?
Daniel Jones is under contract through 2026. And then of course there is always the tag since we didn't use it on him the first time.
No hurry on forcing the QB.
This is year 3 of the Schoen era, and not only has the QB situation not been solved, it has gotten worse (and older, more injured Jones now making considerably more money).
He brought in Tyrod Taylor (gone) and now Drew Lock.
Forgive some of us if we see coming out of this draft with no viable answer at QB as being a significant failure of this regime.
Is 2025 going to have more and better prospects than 2024, or does he expect the 2024 season will have us picking much higher in the draft than the 2023 season did?
Does he have a trade target he is working on?
Does he love someone as a free agent option in 2025?
At some point, your GM has to be doing something other than "Gee guys, it wasn't our year again!"
. Rather that then payout for a mediocre upgrade with low ceiling. Can't afford to do that
It's almost the exact opposite of what GoDeep said - just replace Maye w/ McCarthy and vice-versa.
Fun draft season!
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they won't have a shot at a QB they believe in, and would rather roll with Lock for '24. That figures to deliver another top 10 draft presence for NYG.
. Rather that then payout for a mediocre upgrade with low ceiling. Can't afford to do that
I agree, got no interest in repeating 2019.
Earning another year of QB hell while Daboll and Schoen think maybe he's another reclaimed QB that has turned it around.
Thus far I'm not sold on either's talent evaluation skills.
The Giants have drafted 3 first round quarterbacks in 45 years. Those 3 quarterbacks have played a combined 36 seasons between them...so far.
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As to why you should draft QBs when you aren't expected to rather than waiting until you need one. The Giants are so behind other franchises when it comes to this.
The Giants have drafted 3 first round quarterbacks in 45 years. Those 3 quarterbacks have played a combined 36 seasons between them...so far.
You forgot Dave Brown
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As to why you should draft QBs when you aren't expected to rather than waiting until you need one. The Giants are so behind other franchises when it comes to this.
The Giants have drafted 3 first round quarterbacks in 45 years. Those 3 quarterbacks have played a combined 36 seasons between them...so far.
This speaks to holding the view of the need to find the chosen one at QB. You don't do that for WRs or CBs or Edges. You find a guy who can do it well.
I think the Giants (historically) at least, view QB position where you bring in a to be your franchise guy, rather than bringing in someone to TRY and be your franchise guy. I think that is a mistake.
Yet we have inside scoops saying Kraft is enamored with JJM.
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And what if there is nobody obtainable who they have a conviction on next year? And then again in 2026?
If you never want to 'force QB' how long are you willing to wait to take one?
Arch Manning will be available in 2026.
Some people mean this seriously, don't encourage this.
I think the Giants (historically) at least, view QB position where you bring in a to be your franchise guy, rather than bringing in someone to TRY and be your franchise guy. I think that is a mistake.
I think this is absolutely accurate.
If the Giants do draft Maye or McCarthy on Thursday it will be like the organization is giving birth to a son. They should have him walk through a fucking birth canal to hug Goodell.
I think the Giants (historically) at least, view QB position where you bring in a to be your franchise guy, rather than bringing in someone to TRY and be your franchise guy. I think that is a mistake.
I think this is absolutely accurate.
This is such bullshit. Drafting Simms in '79 was not viewed as some slam dunk franchise guy. In fact, many people were mad at the pick. The most common thing people were saying were "who the hell is this guy?". SO he was a "try" candidate.
He was NOT a great prospect. You ever see his college stats?
Comp % - 49
TD's - 32
INT's- 45
Dave Brown was also not brought in as a slam dunk franchise guy either (yes, he counts even though he was a supplemental pick, he cost them a first rounder). Another "try" candidate. Another guy who had pretty mediocre stats - 55%, 42/33 TD/INT ratio.
Kerry Collins was also not a slam dunk. In fact, many people hated the move, given his issues with alcohol. Yet another "try" candidate.
In fact, one could very easily argue that in the last 45 years, Eli was the ONLY guy they brought in to be a franchise guy, and all the others were brought in as an ATTEMPT at finding a franchise guy.
I’d actually do the latter although I don’t think you’re getting Surtain AND next year’s first. The Minnesota trade doesn’t particularly interest me. So many of the best prospects in that area of the draft are likely to be offensive linemen and edge rushers.
If this is the case, try to add another 2025 1 from Denver or Minn....
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McCarthy may fall to the Giants at 6.
Yet we have inside scoops saying Kraft is enamored with JJM.
Where has that been reported? You have stated that before, but I have yet to see where he's on record saying he's more enamored with JJ or Drake Maye.
Comp %: 52%
TD: 25
INT: 25
That is what passing statistics in college football looked like in the late 70s. Simms was drafted in the first round to be a franchise QB, not a "hey let's see what this guy can do."
As late as the mid 80s, FBs were being picked in the first round. Now there may be 10 in the league. The game changes.
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solve the Daniel Jones fiasco with another Daniel Jones caliber prospect
it is simple
I don't think anyone is suggesting drafting Tanner Mordecai at 6...
To clarify, you think taking Daniel Jones at 6 was a mistake?