This isn't a novel or even necessary point. It's been said too many times.
There are people here that want a QB at all costs in round 1, some are indifferent to whom, others are specifically assured they know who is better.
Sammy Watkins was the best WR available in 2014, and first taken. Mike Evans, Odell Beckham, and Brandin Cooks were far better in the end. Nobody knows precisely why, but where a player goes is a criminally underrated aspect to this game.
At the end of the day, the draft is structured randomness. Just go with it and have fun.
draft and say see all the QB busts and then say don't force a QB pick..
So was Fields a forced pick? Was he not seen as going in RD 1? Was Lance a forced pick? Mac Jones? Jones was being pegged to the 49ers at 3 for a long time until he wasn't.
The assertion about FORCED means you know which QB's are going to succeed or at the very least you know how MOST of the NFL teams rank the QB prospects..
Forcing a pick is when someone who isn't a 1st rd talent (even for that specific year) is suddenly drafted in the first rd.
All of the top 4 QB's have been pegged as 1st rd picks, just it varies on when in the 1st people "think" they will go..
completely twist peoples words to fit their agenda. Nobody is suggesting that the Giants "force a 1st round QB." They like these QB's and think that they can be franchise QB's. Now if the Giants don't like the remaining QB available then they should take the best WR available but I don't want to hear you complaining a year from now when they still don't have a starting QB and the 2025 draft lacks any quality options at QB.
I didn't say not to be interested, but taking one just because you need one and wasting draft capital to move up, if one falls to the Giants at 6 they love, than great
is going to be some kind of guarantee of success. But which of this year's QBs other than Williams and possibly Daniels is looking like a sure thing? For every "expert" touting JJM or Maye there are others who are cautioning to stay away. If there were not a half dozen holes on this roster, I get taking a QB and sitting him for a year. But to give up a high draft pick at 6 or to trade up and give up even more just to take a chance on JJM or Maye with the numerous other holes on the roster seems right out of the Gettleman handbook. Trade down a little get an extra second and grab Penix if you want a QB and then pick up a WR and a CB in the second round.
is going to be some kind of guarantee of success. But which of this year's QBs other than Williams and possibly Daniels is looking like a sure thing? For every "expert" touting JJM or Maye there are others who are cautioning to stay away. If there were not a half dozen holes on this roster, I get taking a QB and sitting him for a year. But to give up a high draft pick at 6 or to trade up and give up even more just to take a chance on JJM or Maye with the numerous other holes on the roster seems right out of the Gettleman handbook. Trade down a little get an extra second and grab Penix if you want a QB and then pick up a WR and a CB in the second round.
- Giants are done with Daniel Jones.
- The quarterback(s) the team is most high on are unattainable.
Welcome to QB hell (hopefully it ends on Thursday this year or next year).
They have to address the position. If they go elsewhere at 6, at minimum they need to draft a lower tier QB. Take a chance on Rattler, someone like that.
They can't go into the season with Jones-Lock-DeVito.
An unemployed person wants a job and pounds the pavement, applying everywhere. No one calls back.
BBI QB at any cost crowd: you're a lazy bum!
The analogy is that the unemployed person holds out until he lands his idea management job. Don't work in a burger joint to keep your lights on...keep waiting until you get offered exactly what you are looking for.
Always take the best player. It cuts down on your misses. Don’t draft for need unless you are real close to being a superbowl contender.
So if the best player is a LT, you take him! Do he and Andrew Thomas just start rotating snaps this year? Or do you throw him over at RT and hope he does better than the last best player available we did that with?
An unemployed person wants a job and pounds the pavement, applying everywhere. No one calls back.
BBI QB at any cost crowd: you're a lazy bum!
The analogy is that the unemployed person holds out until he lands his idea management job. Don't work in a burger joint to keep your lights on...keep waiting until you get offered exactly what you are looking for.
The point is that the Giants may try to trade up and the Vikings may have the more enticing offer.
If Maye or McCarthy are available at 5 and we don't come away with a QB, ill be as upset as anyone.
- Giants are done with Daniel Jones.
- The quarterback(s) the team is most high on are unattainable.
Welcome to QB hell (hopefully it ends on Thursday this year or next year).
QB hell, post Simms, post Eli...know it well.
Kerry Collins era wasn’t QB hell either. We’ve got quite the dilemma though at #6, in terms of getting a QB.
Maybe we need to use next year's #1 to move up for QB5 or QB6? Maybe we need to take QB6 or QB7 in round 3 or 4?
We need to get someone in the building that Daboll can make into a competent QB who can help this team. If he can't ever find one of those outside the Top 5 in the draft - and our GM can't find a guy with upside beyond the Top 5 - we may have to start concluding we don't have the right guys running the show.
I didn't say not to be interested, but taking one just because you need one and wasting draft capital to move up, if one falls to the Giants at 6 they love, than great
0 people are advocating for that. And if there were, do you think Schoen is just saying “fuck it, we need a QB just take whoever is left”? But lets say he did do that, why is it a wasted pick, can’t that player be good or is its only the downside we are entertaining?
This seems like a made up argument.
RE: If the Vikings have a better offer and get QB#4
Maybe we need to use next year's #1 to move up for QB5 or QB6? Maybe we need to take QB6 or QB7 in round 3 or 4?
We need to get someone in the building that Daboll can make into a competent QB who can help this team. If he can't ever find one of those outside the Top 5 in the draft - and our GM can't find a guy with upside beyond the Top 5 - we may have to start concluding we don't have the right guys running the show.
Clarification - I meant move up from 2nd round back into first for QB5 or QB6. Not suggesting spending two firsts this year.
- Giants are done with Daniel Jones.
- The quarterback(s) the team is most high on are unattainable.
Welcome to QB hell (hopefully it ends on Thursday this year or next year).
QB hell, post Simms, post Eli...know it well.
Kerry Collins era wasn’t QB hell either. We’ve got quite the dilemma though at #6, in terms of getting a QB.
Was gonna mention Collins, other than those 3, hell
The status quo is, however, a guarantee of continued failure.
Again, if you think it looks bad now how do you think it's going to look a year from now if we do nothing?
No one is suggesting drafting a complete zero at #6. This is a deep quarterback class with multiple talented and accomplished prospects. It is likely (not impossible, but likely) that next year's class won't be as fertile. And then Schoen is going to be confronted with three options:
1. Continue with Jones as the franchise QB
2. Get in the Dak/Goff sweepstakes (the Dak option looked very unpopular in the thread on that topic)
3. Take his chances in the draft with it being even more obvious the Giants want a QB, and perhaps with fewer options
This is a shitty situation. But this is what you get when you don't draft quarterbacks.
This is a shitty situation. But this is what you get when you don't draft quarterbacks.
And Schoen didn't get handed this poor situation. His inaccurate assessment of Jones and what he was after 2022 put the team in this spot. This is a disaster of his own making.
I didn't say not to be interested, but taking one just because you need one and wasting draft capital to move up, if one falls to the Giants at 6 they love, than great
0 people are advocating for that. And if there were, do you think Schoen is just saying “fuck it, we need a QB just take whoever is left”? But lets say he did do that, why is it a wasted pick, can’t that player be good or is its only the downside we are entertaining?
This seems like a made up argument.
Plenty of BBIers are advocating for that, as far as I know, Schoen doesn't have a BBI account, perhaps Eric can confirm?
The status quo is, however, a guarantee of continued failure.
Again, if you think it looks bad now how do you think it's going to look a year from now if we do nothing?
No one is suggesting drafting a complete zero at #6. This is a deep quarterback class with multiple talented and accomplished prospects. It is likely (not impossible, but likely) that next year's class won't be as fertile. And then Schoen is going to be confronted with three options:
1. Continue with Jones as the franchise QB
2. Get in the Dak/Goff sweepstakes (the Dak option looked very unpopular in the thread on that topic)
3. Take his chances in the draft with it being even more obvious the Giants want a QB, and perhaps with fewer options
This is a shitty situation. But this is what you get when you don't draft quarterbacks.
they simply want a QB that doesn’t mean any QB. You are conflating the two. But again, let’s say that’s true and tons of people just want a new QB and don’t care who it is, is your counter point really just telling us QBs can bust?
Some fans are horrified of it. What's so bad about this?
Draft a QB, give him until end of 2025 and if it doesn't work out, start new in 2026. Jones is completely off the books & you can align the next QB with a new regime. If the QB hits, even better.
It's such an archaic way of thinking to give the QB 5 years and wait to hit. The NFL is different than when Simms & Eli were playing.
If some of you were running the Niners you'd still be waiting for Trey Lance to hit. Guess what? They're fine and they missed badly on him.
there’s no relegation, literally no penalty from a fans perspective. Only real downside is the FO/coaching staff getting fired but that’s the deal they signed making 7 figure salaries or more to coach a game. Keep trying until we find something that works.
view is still that we should take any of the "big four" QBs (presumably only Maye or JJM) that fall to us at #6, or perhaps with a small trade up. But most massive move ups for QBs fail, and I think there are too many questions about Maye or JJM to give up a huge amount of draft capital for either.
I would take Nix or Penix at #47, but don't think either will last that long, and don't want to trade up for them.
I would be fine taking Rattler at the bottom of the second after a trade down or the top of the third. He reminds me of Baker Mayfield. But I think the Giants want a taller QB, and I'm not sure he would fit in New York, so I would be surprised if they took him.
they simply want a QB that doesn’t mean any QB. You are conflating the two. But again, let’s say that’s true and tons of people just want a new QB and don’t care who it is, is your counter point really just telling us QBs can bust?
Well, that's what I've been reading the last few weeks...all I'm saying is outside of the top 2, no body excites me except Penix...trading up for a Maye or JJM is a disaster waiting to happen
We may be looking at Lock versus DeVito for the starting job.
Welcome to QB hell for at least one more year.
The term QB hell exists for reason. It's real.
What does a solution look like?
This problem is fairly simple: the Giants don't have a quarterback. It is on them to find a solution with the materials provided. Waiting for the next Eli Manning is crazy.
What's the saying? Amateurs deal in tactics, masters deal in logistics. Of the Giants are willing to wait years for their Goldilocks QB, they are amateurs.
There are people here that want a QB at all costs in round 1, some are indifferent to whom, others are specifically assured they know who is better.
Sammy Watkins was the best WR available in 2014, and first taken. Mike Evans, Odell Beckham, and Brandin Cooks were far better in the end. Nobody knows precisely why, but where a player goes is a criminally underrated aspect to this game.
At the end of the day, the draft is structured randomness. Just go with it and have fun.
Whatever, this will be Schoen's decision, not BBI's, and not my decision.
This is truth. If one falls to us at 6 the Giants like, fine. I just don't feel it with most of the QBs. Penix is the only one who intrigues me...
Whatever, this will be Schoen's decision, not BBI's, and not my decision.
Agree
That's the conundrum...
So was Fields a forced pick? Was he not seen as going in RD 1? Was Lance a forced pick? Mac Jones? Jones was being pegged to the 49ers at 3 for a long time until he wasn't.
The assertion about FORCED means you know which QB's are going to succeed or at the very least you know how MOST of the NFL teams rank the QB prospects..
Forcing a pick is when someone who isn't a 1st rd talent (even for that specific year) is suddenly drafted in the first rd.
All of the top 4 QB's have been pegged as 1st rd picks, just it varies on when in the 1st people "think" they will go..
I didn't say not to be interested, but taking one just because you need one and wasting draft capital to move up, if one falls to the Giants at 6 they love, than great
Two things can be true:
- Giants are done with Daniel Jones.
- The quarterback(s) the team is most high on are unattainable.
Welcome to QB hell (hopefully it ends on Thursday this year or next year).
Is the plan to be bad enough for long enough that eventually prospect meets value in the top 5 one day?
Two things can be true:
- Giants are done with Daniel Jones.
- The quarterback(s) the team is most high on are unattainable.
Welcome to QB hell (hopefully it ends on Thursday this year or next year).
I think both are true.
+1
BBI QB at any cost crowd: you're a lazy bum!
Two things can be true:
- Giants are done with Daniel Jones.
- The quarterback(s) the team is most high on are unattainable.
Welcome to QB hell (hopefully it ends on Thursday this year or next year).
They have to address the position. If they go elsewhere at 6, at minimum they need to draft a lower tier QB. Take a chance on Rattler, someone like that.
They can't go into the season with Jones-Lock-DeVito.
BBI QB at any cost crowd: you're a lazy bum!
The analogy is that the unemployed person holds out until he lands his idea management job. Don't work in a burger joint to keep your lights on...keep waiting until you get offered exactly what you are looking for.
Two things can be true:
- Giants are done with Daniel Jones.
- The quarterback(s) the team is most high on are unattainable.
Welcome to QB hell (hopefully it ends on Thursday this year or next year).
QB hell, post Simms, post Eli...know it well.
So if the best player is a LT, you take him! Do he and Andrew Thomas just start rotating snaps this year? Or do you throw him over at RT and hope he does better than the last best player available we did that with?
Quote:
An unemployed person wants a job and pounds the pavement, applying everywhere. No one calls back.
BBI QB at any cost crowd: you're a lazy bum!
The analogy is that the unemployed person holds out until he lands his idea management job. Don't work in a burger joint to keep your lights on...keep waiting until you get offered exactly what you are looking for.
The point is that the Giants may try to trade up and the Vikings may have the more enticing offer.
If Maye or McCarthy are available at 5 and we don't come away with a QB, ill be as upset as anyone.
Quote:
are taking this to extremes.
Two things can be true:
- Giants are done with Daniel Jones.
- The quarterback(s) the team is most high on are unattainable.
Welcome to QB hell (hopefully it ends on Thursday this year or next year).
QB hell, post Simms, post Eli...know it well.
Kerry Collins era wasn’t QB hell either. We’ve got quite the dilemma though at #6, in terms of getting a QB.
We need to get someone in the building that Daboll can make into a competent QB who can help this team. If he can't ever find one of those outside the Top 5 in the draft - and our GM can't find a guy with upside beyond the Top 5 - we may have to start concluding we don't have the right guys running the show.
Quote:
is a poor reason not to be interested in QB at 6.
I didn't say not to be interested, but taking one just because you need one and wasting draft capital to move up, if one falls to the Giants at 6 they love, than great
0 people are advocating for that. And if there were, do you think Schoen is just saying “fuck it, we need a QB just take whoever is left”? But lets say he did do that, why is it a wasted pick, can’t that player be good or is its only the downside we are entertaining?
This seems like a made up argument.
We need to get someone in the building that Daboll can make into a competent QB who can help this team. If he can't ever find one of those outside the Top 5 in the draft - and our GM can't find a guy with upside beyond the Top 5 - we may have to start concluding we don't have the right guys running the show.
Clarification - I meant move up from 2nd round back into first for QB5 or QB6. Not suggesting spending two firsts this year.
Quote:
In comment 16480051 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
are taking this to extremes.
Two things can be true:
- Giants are done with Daniel Jones.
- The quarterback(s) the team is most high on are unattainable.
Welcome to QB hell (hopefully it ends on Thursday this year or next year).
QB hell, post Simms, post Eli...know it well.
Kerry Collins era wasn’t QB hell either. We’ve got quite the dilemma though at #6, in terms of getting a QB.
Was gonna mention Collins, other than those 3, hell
Again, if you think it looks bad now how do you think it's going to look a year from now if we do nothing?
No one is suggesting drafting a complete zero at #6. This is a deep quarterback class with multiple talented and accomplished prospects. It is likely (not impossible, but likely) that next year's class won't be as fertile. And then Schoen is going to be confronted with three options:
1. Continue with Jones as the franchise QB
2. Get in the Dak/Goff sweepstakes (the Dak option looked very unpopular in the thread on that topic)
3. Take his chances in the draft with it being even more obvious the Giants want a QB, and perhaps with fewer options
This is a shitty situation. But this is what you get when you don't draft quarterbacks.
This is a shitty situation. But this is what you get when you don't draft quarterbacks.
And Schoen didn't get handed this poor situation. His inaccurate assessment of Jones and what he was after 2022 put the team in this spot. This is a disaster of his own making.
Quote:
In comment 16480038 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
is a poor reason not to be interested in QB at 6.
I didn't say not to be interested, but taking one just because you need one and wasting draft capital to move up, if one falls to the Giants at 6 they love, than great
0 people are advocating for that. And if there were, do you think Schoen is just saying “fuck it, we need a QB just take whoever is left”? But lets say he did do that, why is it a wasted pick, can’t that player be good or is its only the downside we are entertaining?
This seems like a made up argument.
Plenty of BBIers are advocating for that, as far as I know, Schoen doesn't have a BBI account, perhaps Eric can confirm?
Again, if you think it looks bad now how do you think it's going to look a year from now if we do nothing?
No one is suggesting drafting a complete zero at #6. This is a deep quarterback class with multiple talented and accomplished prospects. It is likely (not impossible, but likely) that next year's class won't be as fertile. And then Schoen is going to be confronted with three options:
1. Continue with Jones as the franchise QB
2. Get in the Dak/Goff sweepstakes (the Dak option looked very unpopular in the thread on that topic)
3. Take his chances in the draft with it being even more obvious the Giants want a QB, and perhaps with fewer options
This is a shitty situation. But this is what you get when you don't draft quarterbacks.
Agree, status quo no bueno
Draft a QB, give him until end of 2025 and if it doesn't work out, start new in 2026. Jones is completely off the books & you can align the next QB with a new regime. If the QB hits, even better.
It's such an archaic way of thinking to give the QB 5 years and wait to hit. The NFL is different than when Simms & Eli were playing.
If some of you were running the Niners you'd still be waiting for Trey Lance to hit. Guess what? They're fine and they missed badly on him.
There may not be a solution to QB in this draft.
We may be looking at Lock versus DeVito for the starting job.
Welcome to QB hell for at least one more year.
The term QB hell exists for reason. It's real.
I would take Nix or Penix at #47, but don't think either will last that long, and don't want to trade up for them.
I would be fine taking Rattler at the bottom of the second after a trade down or the top of the third. He reminds me of Baker Mayfield. But I think the Giants want a taller QB, and I'm not sure he would fit in New York, so I would be surprised if they took him.
Well, that's what I've been reading the last few weeks...all I'm saying is outside of the top 2, no body excites me except Penix...trading up for a Maye or JJM is a disaster waiting to happen
There may not be a solution to QB in this draft.
We may be looking at Lock versus DeVito for the starting job.
Welcome to QB hell for at least one more year.
The term QB hell exists for reason. It's real.
What does a solution look like?
This problem is fairly simple: the Giants don't have a quarterback. It is on them to find a solution with the materials provided. Waiting for the next Eli Manning is crazy.
What's the saying? Amateurs deal in tactics, masters deal in logistics. Of the Giants are willing to wait years for their Goldilocks QB, they are amateurs.
You seem wed to one solution... draft Penix at 6.
Evan Neal has not developed yet. If Neal fails at RT and Schoen picks the wrong QB then Schoen's job should be in question.