Came into some information recently and will try and share it exactly how it was disseminated.
Was at a very large get together up in North Jersey and a guy I met is apparently a blood relative of someone high up in the front office. Multiple people at the party attested to this fact.
A few drinks in a bunch of us were talking Giants . We went inside and after a few shots he pulled me and my friend aside as we were talking Giants and the draft with him the most knowledgably and intently.
Here's how he layed it out as best I remember: Parameters between Cards, Giants and Pats have been agreed to for a while if draft goes chalk in top 2.
Though front office opinions on Maye vary quite a bit... Enough teams feel Maye is either a top 2 or top 3 QB in this draft and would be QB1 in most others.
Pats boxed out on the guys they have the highest grade on. Lukewarm on Maye do like McCarthy quite a bit . I asked about all the recent rumors saying they favor Maye and he replied if they truly loved Maye you wouldn't hear all this open for business proclamations from the organization period. Are Chicago and Washington doing this?
Went on to say its very true that both Minny and Giants have been negotiating with Pats most heavily and target is Maye. All other media stuff just white noise. Both teams have Maye as significantly higher than any other QB not named Daniels or Williams.
Giants have the high hand though once it became clear that they can deliver what Pats want most and that would also entail getting the Cards involved. Cards want the blue chip WR and Pats want McCarthy most. Pats get some jingle and McCarthy is how he put it. Also said Pats didn't throw their hat in the ring for a near 9 digit deal with Ridley to pair him with Brisset.
Said Cards are loaded but recognize they can get essentially free picks and still end up with the blue chip after the QB slots thin out.
Oh yeah said Burns deal way back was consummated clearly knowing what Pats wanted most and was explained as when QB is a need for your team it takes precedence over everything including pass rusher.
Ultimately said they have parameters as a 3 way trade as well as double trade up. Not sure which way they go as each permutation is slightly different. Might be a surprise player included going to the Patriots.
I hope Hyatt and Kayvon are both off the table. I'd like to see Hyatt with a competent QB and Kayvon with Burns.
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In comment 16480162 ZogZerg said:
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I'm sure they have happened, but I can't recall the last time one has.
Technically this could be done as just trading up twice, not really a 3 way trade. I've mentioned this as a likely scenario for a while now, but everytime I was told 0 chance it doesn't happen period end of story.
Since the Patriots need the Cardinals involved it is still one trade up. So the Patriots would end up with Giants draft picks and the Cardinals would end up with Patriot draft picks. Patriots are going down then back up, they're the ones moving twice.
That's the 3 way trade route, I was suggesting the double trade up.
3 way trade could look like this:
NYG receives pick 3
NE receives pick 4 and Evan Neal/Slayton (really I think it would have to be Kayvon or Neal and Hyatt)
AZ receives pick 6, 70 and 2025 2nd from NYG
It'll be worth it if they fins their franchise QB and the NYG get out of QB Hell---which is where thy are now.
Hyatt is untapped and has a lot of room to improve. I don't know why Daboll would be willing to lose him so quickly.
Just gotta think, Thibs is a 1st value in return, Hyatt can be a 2nd and Neal is the big one who can be great but has struggled to live up to his draft status. I don't see Thibs being included if they're throwing other high picks in.
Hyatt is untapped and has a lot of room to improve. I don't know why Daboll would be willing to lose him so quickly.
Just gotta think, Thibs is a 1st value in return, Hyatt can be a 2nd and Neal is the big one who can be great but has struggled to live up to his draft status. I don't see Thibs being included if they're throwing other high picks in.
3 way trade could look like this:
NYG receives pick 3
NE receives pick 4 and Evan Neal/Slayton (really I think it would have to be Kayvon or Neal and Hyatt)
AZ receives pick 6, 70 and 2025 2nd from NYG
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In comment 16480098 Jaenyg said:
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Is we couldn’t pull any of this shit in 2020 when we picked 4th.
Chargers and Dolphins got to just sit pat.
What sucks is that this kind of information is disseminated after a few drinks from some wahoo in the Giants organization. I don't want to know anything until they pick at 6. It just pisses me off that this information is getting out.
It's supposedly some wahoo brother of an executive lol, not the executive himself.
Agree but if it is true and this is already agreed to, who cares who knows. No one can do anything about. It’s a checkmate.
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In comment 16480168 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16480162 ZogZerg said:
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I'm sure they have happened, but I can't recall the last time one has.
Technically this could be done as just trading up twice, not really a 3 way trade. I've mentioned this as a likely scenario for a while now, but everytime I was told 0 chance it doesn't happen period end of story.
Since the Patriots need the Cardinals involved it is still one trade up. So the Patriots would end up with Giants draft picks and the Cardinals would end up with Patriot draft picks. Patriots are going down then back up, they're the ones moving twice.
That's the 3 way trade route, I was suggesting the double trade up.
3 way trade could look like this:
NYG receives pick 3
NE receives pick 4 and Evan Neal/Slayton (really I think it would have to be Kayvon or Neal and Hyatt)
AZ receives pick 6, 70 and 2025 2nd from NYG
By us keeping 47, we can actually move back off 47 to get a few extra picks (say bottom 2 or top 3 and a 4th rd pick).
All-Pro at what? Flippin cheese burgers?
Umm we don't say that..
Sorry, Sweating Rocks..
Pretty sure it's shitting bricks and sweating bullets. Also, I think the guy said upstate (meaning upstate NY). And if some wahoo brother gets wind of his brothers professional workings so be it, it was presented as a done deal so who cares anyways. No harm, no foul.
Also, this lines up with what dd in Mass said and Woodstock chimed in making it sound like this wasn't some made up story.
If Arizona wants one of the top 2 WRs....where are they going? They can go down any further than 8 and that would be risky.
If this is true....our GM is blinking....the Giants must draft smart...not scared.
Now it does sound like his mentor....no one will care if Maye hits and he will be fired if he doesn't hit.
If Arizona wants one of the top 2 WRs....where are they going? They can go down any further than 8 and that would be risky.
If this is true....our GM is blinking....the Giants must draft smart...not scared.
Now it does sound like his mentor....no one will care if Maye hits and he will be fired if he doesn't hit.
They have no way of knowing if Minnesota could jump to 5 then 4 or direct to 4 then AZ jumps back up for WR. If you believe in the qb, you don't want to leave anything up to chance.
If Arizona wants one of the top 2 WRs....where are they going? They can go down any further than 8 and that would be risky.
If this is true....our GM is blinking....the Giants must draft smart...not scared.
Now it does sound like his mentor....no one will care if Maye hits and he will be fired if he doesn't hit.
Easy for you to say. You seem to be content with Jones and building the team. I wouldn't risk losing Maye/McCarthy because LAC traded down with the Vikings.
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It makes too much sense. Several people said wouldn’t happen because 3 way trades don’t happen. But again, it makes perfect sense for the three teams. It’s a win win win.
I think we were the only ones saying this could be a likely scenario and everyone told us no chance lol. I wouldn't love this as it would be costly, but if they love Maye this much then you'd have to be enthusiastic about their conviction.
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And his potential is top caliber.
Hyatt is untapped and has a lot of room to improve. I don't know why Daboll would be willing to lose him so quickly.
Just gotta think, Thibs is a 1st value in return, Hyatt can be a 2nd and Neal is the big one who can be great but has struggled to live up to his draft status. I don't see Thibs being included if they're throwing other high picks in.
3 way trade could look like this:
NYG receives pick 3
NE receives pick 4 and Evan Neal/Slayton (really I think it would have to be Kayvon or Neal and Hyatt)
AZ receives pick 6, 70 and 2025 2nd from NYG
Spent quite a bit of time scheming up plausible scenarios based on what he told me above:
One guess....
Cards trade 4 for 6 and a 2025 1st. They already are loaded for bear for this draft and a 1 sets them up nicely next year if they consider moving on from Kyler.
Pats trade us 3 for 4 , 70 , 2025 3rd and Neal
Or kinda vice versa
Cards trade 4 for 6, 70 and 2025 3rd
Pats trade 3 for 4 , for 2025 1st and Neal
*NYG tries to keep 47 for the WR drafted or via trade or for CB2
It certainly won't be cheap in draft capital but if they somehow finished this offseason with Edge1 , QB1 and WR1 or CB2, that would be a master class by Joe Schoen.
Of course. It's basically whatever cost it would have taken you to get to 3, except allocated to 2 teams instead of 1. Our #6 and 2nd rounder this year, and our 1 next year. Maybe some smaller picks as sweeteners, something like that.
The other thing is that virtually everyone agrees Maye needs to sit. So there is is a ton of downside. But if the vision is that Daboll sees the next Herbert in Maye after getting his hands on him, you do that in a second.
Josh Allen wasn't wholly Josh Allen until year 3, if you remember. But they are legitimate contenders every year at this point. That's what this is about.
I suspect Evan Neal and maybe even Waller (to AZ) could be part of a deal..
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In comment 16480284 Toth029 said:
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And his potential is top caliber.
Hyatt is untapped and has a lot of room to improve. I don't know why Daboll would be willing to lose him so quickly.
Just gotta think, Thibs is a 1st value in return, Hyatt can be a 2nd and Neal is the big one who can be great but has struggled to live up to his draft status. I don't see Thibs being included if they're throwing other high picks in.
3 way trade could look like this:
NYG receives pick 3
NE receives pick 4 and Evan Neal/Slayton (really I think it would have to be Kayvon or Neal and Hyatt)
AZ receives pick 6, 70 and 2025 2nd from NYG
Spent quite a bit of time scheming up plausible scenarios based on what he told me above:
One guess....
Cards trade 4 for 6 and a 2025 1st. They already are loaded for bear for this draft and a 1 sets them up nicely next year if they consider moving on from Kyler.
Pats trade us 3 for 4 , 70 , 2025 3rd and Neal
Or kinda vice versa
Cards trade 4 for 6, 70 and 2025 3rd
Pats trade 3 for 4 , for 2025 1st and Neal
*NYG tries to keep 47 for the WR drafted or via trade or for CB2
It certainly won't be cheap in draft capital but if they somehow finished this offseason with Edge1 , QB1 and WR1 or CB2, that would be a master class by Joe Schoen.
We are not trading from 6 to 4 with a 2025 #1 - it is basically our #3 this year. And Schoen said the are not trading 2025 #1.
Probably our #3 and maybe 2025 #3 or #2.
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Of that deal especially if we are paying a good portion of his money but, Pats have cap space.. Jones backing up Brisset for one year let's Pats fill multiple holes..
I suspect Evan Neal and maybe even Waller (to AZ) could be part of a deal..
Didnt someone on BBI mention Waller playing the retirement game to force a trade to a West coast team.? Don't want to mention who it was because I could be wrong. But Waller to Cards? Would also explain why Giants aren't acting like they are in a rush for an answer from him.
They have Trey McBride. They are set at TE
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If NE wants JJM....where are they going? They can't trade with the Vikings.
If Arizona wants one of the top 2 WRs....where are they going? They can go down any further than 8 and that would be risky.
If this is true....our GM is blinking....the Giants must draft smart...not scared.
Now it does sound like his mentor....no one will care if Maye hits and he will be fired if he doesn't hit.
They have no way of knowing if Minnesota could jump to 5 then 4 or direct to 4 then AZ jumps back up for WR. If you believe in the qb, you don't want to leave anything up to chance.
Minny certainly seems to be the main reason the price is higher. NYG needs to box Minny out of the equation. This path may have been the only way for checkmate. Seems like they are all in and willing to pay big for Maye.
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In comment 16480284 Toth029 said:
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And his potential is top caliber.
Hyatt is untapped and has a lot of room to improve. I don't know why Daboll would be willing to lose him so quickly.
Just gotta think, Thibs is a 1st value in return, Hyatt can be a 2nd and Neal is the big one who can be great but has struggled to live up to his draft status. I don't see Thibs being included if they're throwing other high picks in.
3 way trade could look like this:
NYG receives pick 3
NE receives pick 4 and Evan Neal/Slayton (really I think it would have to be Kayvon or Neal and Hyatt)
AZ receives pick 6, 70 and 2025 2nd from NYG
Spent quite a bit of time scheming up plausible scenarios based on what he told me above:
One guess....
Cards trade 4 for 6 and a 2025 1st. They already are loaded for bear for this draft and a 1 sets them up nicely next year if they consider moving on from Kyler.
Pats trade us 3 for 4 , 70 , 2025 3rd and Neal
Or kinda vice versa
Cards trade 4 for 6, 70 and 2025 3rd
Pats trade 3 for 4 , for 2025 1st and Neal
*NYG tries to keep 47 for the WR drafted or via trade or for CB2
It certainly won't be cheap in draft capital but if they somehow finished this offseason with Edge1 , QB1 and WR1 or CB2, that would be a master class by Joe Schoen.
Giants do have some leverage here being at #6 and a double trade up kills them - it is all about the Patriots and Cards getting free picks and best outcome for all three. The Patriots don't want to trade with the Vikings, that means no QB, they would more likely just stay put and then they get no extra picks at all.
By trading directly with the Giants they get free picks and their QB. Same goes for the Cards, they get free Patriots picks by doing it this way. So it all hinges on the Patriots being willing to take lesser value than what they get from the Vikings but still getting their QB, not fleecing the Giants because the Giants could stay there and then it means someone would miss out on their pick trading with the Vikings for more capital or neither gets anything.
The Giants basically just have to give the Patriots more than what they have to give the Cardinals who want enough to justify possibly settling for their second choice.
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KT? I don't see that. Even EA wouldn't include Osi in the Eli trade & Thibs has shown much more than Osi had @ that juncture.
I wouldn't love it, but if they want Maye and maybe Aiyuk for Maye plus their 2025 1st. Then they gotta do what they gotta do.
Can't give up KT. Red line.
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In comment 16480307 George from PA said:
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If NE wants JJM....where are they going? They can't trade with the Vikings.
If Arizona wants one of the top 2 WRs....where are they going? They can go down any further than 8 and that would be risky.
If this is true....our GM is blinking....the Giants must draft smart...not scared.
Now it does sound like his mentor....no one will care if Maye hits and he will be fired if he doesn't hit.
They have no way of knowing if Minnesota could jump to 5 then 4 or direct to 4 then AZ jumps back up for WR. If you believe in the qb, you don't want to leave anything up to chance.
Minny certainly seems to be the main reason the price is higher. NYG needs to box Minny out of the equation. This path may have been the only way for checkmate. Seems like they are all in and willing to pay big for Maye.
They're all in to pay big for Maye, until they aren't. There is a plan B for MN but they aren't going to turn their heads until they've exhausted all avenues to get their guy. IMO, the price to secure one of the original top 3 QBs was always going to be huge. JJM opens some doors that may not have existed early in the process, but at a price. These men aren't fools. They understand that teams don't look at it as some fans do --hey, there are 6 round 1 QBs, let's settle for one of them. That's not how teams are going to look at this. Their evaluations draw some very significant distinctions.
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In comment 16480251 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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KT? I don't see that. Even EA wouldn't include Osi in the Eli trade & Thibs has shown much more than Osi had @ that juncture.
I wouldn't love it, but if they want Maye and maybe Aiyuk for Maye plus their 2025 1st. Then they gotta do what they gotta do.
Can't give up KT. Red line.
Exactly. Teams don't stray off their vision unless zero choice. The defense kept us in so many games last year. They invested heavily in Burns in FA to further compliment the assets and build a foundation on that side of the ball --consistent with how this regime views things in terms of positional value. That's why they didn't man up and pay McKinney. This isn't DG running things here. There is a plan and it's not very difficult to follow. KT is a non-starter. He facots heavily into the vision.
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In comment 16480254 Blue Dog said:
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In comment 16480168 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16480162 ZogZerg said:
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I'm sure they have happened, but I can't recall the last time one has.
Technically this could be done as just trading up twice, not really a 3 way trade. I've mentioned this as a likely scenario for a while now, but everytime I was told 0 chance it doesn't happen period end of story.
Since the Patriots need the Cardinals involved it is still one trade up. So the Patriots would end up with Giants draft picks and the Cardinals would end up with Patriot draft picks. Patriots are going down then back up, they're the ones moving twice.
That's the 3 way trade route, I was suggesting the double trade up.
3 way trade could look like this:
NYG receives pick 3
NE receives pick 4 and Evan Neal/Slayton (really I think it would have to be Kayvon or Neal and Hyatt)
AZ receives pick 6, 70 and 2025 2nd from NYG
By us keeping 47, we can actually move back off 47 to get a few extra picks (say bottom 2 or top 3 and a 4th rd pick).
He didnt hint at any players involved but the players that stick out maybe
Waller is leveraging retirement and wants trade to West Coast team
Neal change of scenery and maybe Pats still think he has high end potential as OT or OG. Schoen signed 5 OL this offseason.
Hyatt posted some cryptic tweets a while back and had a 100 yard game vs Pats last year. We know they are after WRs as they tried to sign Ridley.
Slayton is holding out
DJ is 33 mil on cap with 14 mil salary cap savings if traded
Doubt they trade KT
Just my two cents
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In comment 16480307 George from PA said:
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If NE wants JJM....where are they going? They can't trade with the Vikings.
If Arizona wants one of the top 2 WRs....where are they going? They can go down any further than 8 and that would be risky.
If this is true....our GM is blinking....the Giants must draft smart...not scared.
Now it does sound like his mentor....no one will care if Maye hits and he will be fired if he doesn't hit.
They have no way of knowing if Minnesota could jump to 5 then 4 or direct to 4 then AZ jumps back up for WR. If you believe in the qb, you don't want to leave anything up to chance.
Minny certainly seems to be the main reason the price is higher. NYG needs to box Minny out of the equation. This path may have been the only way for checkmate. Seems like they are all in and willing to pay big for Maye.
+1 Makes sense.
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In comment 16480284 Toth029 said:
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And his potential is top caliber.
Hyatt is untapped and has a lot of room to improve. I don't know why Daboll would be willing to lose him so quickly.
Just gotta think, Thibs is a 1st value in return, Hyatt can be a 2nd and Neal is the big one who can be great but has struggled to live up to his draft status. I don't see Thibs being included if they're throwing other high picks in.
3 way trade could look like this:
NYG receives pick 3
NE receives pick 4 and Evan Neal/Slayton (really I think it would have to be Kayvon or Neal and Hyatt)
AZ receives pick 6, 70 and 2025 2nd from NYG
Spent quite a bit of time scheming up plausible scenarios based on what he told me above:
One guess....
Cards trade 4 for 6 and a 2025 1st. They already are loaded for bear for this draft and a 1 sets them up nicely next year if they consider moving on from Kyler.
Pats trade us 3 for 4 , 70 , 2025 3rd and Neal
Or kinda vice versa
Cards trade 4 for 6, 70 and 2025 3rd
Pats trade 3 for 4 , for 2025 1st and Neal
*NYG tries to keep 47 for the WR drafted or via trade or for CB2
It certainly won't be cheap in draft capital but if they somehow finished this offseason with Edge1 , QB1 and WR1 or CB2, that would be a master class by Joe Schoen.
So we would basically be trading #6, #70, our #1 and #3 next year, and Neal for Maye, a guy who had a subpar last season, and who everyone agrees needs to "sit a year."
I still have to wonder why the Patriots would pass on Maye by just staying at #3. I just don't see the risk in missing out on him for just a few more assets.
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Schmeelk had a guy on his show today who had Maye ranked above Caleb Williams.
I still have to wonder why the Patriots would pass on Maye by just staying at #3. I just don't see the risk in missing out on him for just a few more assets.
The only reason the Patriots would pass on Maye is if they don't think as highly about him as the Giants. It's that simple.
Happens all of the time in the NFL.
Really, if this trade were true, this is pretty creative on the part of the Giants.
This. I can see Neal though.
I was joking about the Jones draft year.....as I wanted Josh Allen and Dex and Drew Lock in 2nd....and now have a "Josh Allen like" in Burns with DeX and Lock.
I also fine.....giving up what is needed to give up.
But not fine giving up picks if not needed....
Why include NE? If they want JJM....
Trade with Arizona...not both...if they are concern about the Chargers
I was joking about the Jones draft year.....as I wanted Josh Allen and Dex and Drew Lock in 2nd....and now have a "Josh Allen like" in Burns with DeX and Lock.
I also fine.....giving up what is needed to give up.
But not fine giving up picks if not needed....
Why include NE? If they want JJM....
Trade with Arizona...not both...if they are concern about the Chargers
Because they are trying to box out the Vikings. The Vikings otherwise could screw the Giants.
Really, if this trade were true, this is pretty creative on the part of the Giants.
dare the pats to go down to 11 and miss out on JJM and all teh WRs....
dont give up a first or neal/thibs.
they can have slayton.
as many 2nd/3rds they want.
Really, if this trade were true, this is pretty creative on the part of the Giants.
I feel the same.
I was joking about the Jones draft year.....as I wanted Josh Allen and Dex and Drew Lock in 2nd....and now have a "Josh Allen like" in Burns with DeX and Lock.
I also fine.....giving up what is needed to give up.
In your scenario, the Vikings could trade up with NE and then NE trades back up with Arizona. Now NYG is boxed out. Schoen won't risk that scenario imo.
But not fine giving up picks if not needed....
Why include NE? If they want JJM....
Trade with Arizona...not both...if they are concern about the Chargers