Came into some information recently and will try and share it exactly how it was disseminated.
Was at a very large get together up in North Jersey and a guy I met is apparently a blood relative of someone high up in the front office. Multiple people at the party attested to this fact.
A few drinks in a bunch of us were talking Giants . We went inside and after a few shots he pulled me and my friend aside as we were talking Giants and the draft with him the most knowledgably and intently.
Here's how he layed it out as best I remember: Parameters between Cards, Giants and Pats have been agreed to for a while if draft goes chalk in top 2.
Though front office opinions on Maye vary quite a bit... Enough teams feel Maye is either a top 2 or top 3 QB in this draft and would be QB1 in most others.
Pats boxed out on the guys they have the highest grade on. Lukewarm on Maye do like McCarthy quite a bit . I asked about all the recent rumors saying they favor Maye and he replied if they truly loved Maye you wouldn't hear all this open for business proclamations from the organization period. Are Chicago and Washington doing this?
Went on to say its very true that both Minny and Giants have been negotiating with Pats most heavily and target is Maye. All other media stuff just white noise. Both teams have Maye as significantly higher than any other QB not named Daniels or Williams.
Giants have the high hand though once it became clear that they can deliver what Pats want most and that would also entail getting the Cards involved. Cards want the blue chip WR and Pats want McCarthy most. Pats get some jingle and McCarthy is how he put it. Also said Pats didn't throw their hat in the ring for a near 9 digit deal with Ridley to pair him with Brisset.
Said Cards are loaded but recognize they can get essentially free picks and still end up with the blue chip after the QB slots thin out.
Oh yeah said Burns deal way back was consummated clearly knowing what Pats wanted most and was explained as when QB is a need for your team it takes precedence over everything including pass rusher.
Ultimately said they have parameters as a 3 way trade as well as double trade up. Not sure which way they go as each permutation is slightly different. Might be a surprise player included going to the Patriots.
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In comment 16480314 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16480307 George from PA said:
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If NE wants JJM....where are they going? They can't trade with the Vikings.
If Arizona wants one of the top 2 WRs....where are they going? They can go down any further than 8 and that would be risky.
If this is true....our GM is blinking....the Giants must draft smart...not scared.
Now it does sound like his mentor....no one will care if Maye hits and he will be fired if he doesn't hit.
They have no way of knowing if Minnesota could jump to 5 then 4 or direct to 4 then AZ jumps back up for WR. If you believe in the qb, you don't want to leave anything up to chance.
Minny certainly seems to be the main reason the price is higher. NYG needs to box Minny out of the equation. This path may have been the only way for checkmate. Seems like they are all in and willing to pay big for Maye.
They're all in to pay big for Maye, until they aren't. There is a plan B for MN but they aren't going to turn their heads until they've exhausted all avenues to get their guy. IMO, the price to secure one of the original top 3 QBs was always going to be huge. JJM opens some doors that may not have existed early in the process, but at a price. These men aren't fools. They understand that teams don't look at it as some fans do --hey, there are 6 round 1 QBs, let's settle for one of them. That's not how teams are going to look at this. Their evaluations draw some very significant distinctions.
He mentioned there were a couple permutations. Even though he didn't directly mention a Pats trade down then trade back up to 4. I figure though that must have been discussed and could be possible. However it sure seemed like the deal isn't happening without Pats knowing they get McCarthy one way or another.
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Schmeelk had a guy on his show today who had Maye ranked above Caleb Williams.
I still have to wonder why the Patriots would pass on Maye by just staying at #3. I just don't see the risk in missing out on him for just a few more assets.
My read is that Kraft demands a QB while the FO recognizes their roster is a disaster, and prioritizes adding picks. If they don't love Maye, and they wouldn't be the only team to feel that way, they have a great opportunity to land their QB and acquire picks, giving everyone what they want.
Neither Az nor Chargers are looking to trade up, and both are open to trading back. Best bet for NE to acquire picks AND get their QB is to deal with NYG, but the risk is someone else trading up to 4 or 5. So NE has a few choices 1) take your QB at 3, which is a big FU to the FO, 2) trade back to 6 or further, which risks pissing off the owner if they miss out on their QB, or 3) something like what's being proposed here or similar trade back and trade up deal that lands them picks and guaratees them their QB.
The only option that satisfies all NE's considerations in #3. They are fully motivated to consider a deal such as this, or a trade back and then trade back up with Az. But...
If they trade back and then up again with Az -- the question becomes --why would Az take that deal over this one? Anything else might take them out of contention for one of the top 3 WRs.
You would wonder if Schoen would give up next years 1?
I hope the package is no more than:
6, 70, Slayton and 2025 2nd round picks. Worst case sub 47 and keep 70.
Maybe get a 5th in return?
I sure hope the Giants are giving up a reasonable ransom.
Someone mentioned it on this Thread....Miami and the Chargers didn't blink....and got their QBs.
They can't trade Daniel Jones....if Neal is rebelling about not playing tackle...could be addition by subtraction.
Giants get their QB.
Pats get extra pick they wouldn't have gotten.
Cards get extra pick, but could lose out on Harrison (they have most to lose... that's why I'm not sure this happens... it would make sense for them if they have two WRs equal on their board).
I sure hope the Giants are giving up a reasonable ransom.
Someone mentioned it on this Thread....Miami and the Chargers didn't blink....and got their QBs.
They can't trade Daniel Jones....if Neal is rebelling about not playing tackle...could be addition by subtraction.
No George, you're not following this.
The Giants would have the 3rd pick.
That definitely could be the part that makes this whole scenario fall part. AZ is loaded with picks already, and if MHjr is a tier above Nabers/Odunze as some draft analysts have reported, then they could view this as not work the extra draft capital.
Actually the OP heard it from NE folks, so thats where the leak is not the NYG
--NYG - Drake Maye
--Kraft - A QB (Presumably JJM)
--NE FO - Extra picks to help build their pathetic roster
--Az - A stud WR (Guaranteed top 2 on their board, including a chance at their #1, MHJ) plus additional picks.
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fly in the ointment is the Cards not wanting to lose Harrison to the Chargers (or them telling the Giants that is the problem).
That definitely could be the part that makes this whole scenario fall part. AZ is loaded with picks already, and if MHjr is a tier above Nabers/Odunze as some draft analysts have reported, then they could view this as not work the extra draft capital.
Agreed.
--NYG - Drake Maye
--Kraft - A QB (Presumably JJM)
--NE FO - Extra picks to help build their pathetic roster
--Az - A stud WR (Guaranteed top 2 on their board, including a chance at their #1, MHJ) plus additional picks.
And in this scenario, I do not want the Giants giving up their #1... because with Maye and few picks, this team isn't getting much better in 2024. That #1 pick in 2025 might be pretty high.
However, if Maye is what he can become, it's worth it. In a normal draft, he could go #1.
As NE can't trade with the Viking.....
as they would need to get back down to 4 or 5....as the Giants are willing to trade back with Denver....who wants JJM.
Arizona won't trade back too far as they want top WRs.
So only the Chargers are the only one who can screw them.....
A deal with Arizona would be good enough....if they include NE keeps everyone happy.....and close any loop fine.
Just do not overpay.....as NE is risking nothing and Arizona very little
As NE can't trade with the Viking.....
as they would need to get back down to 4 or 5....as the Giants are willing to trade back with Denver....who wants JJM.
Arizona won't trade back too far as they want top WRs.
So only the Chargers are the only one who can screw them.....
A deal with Arizona would be good enough....if they include NE keeps everyone happy.....and close any loop fine.
Just do not overpay.....as NE is risking nothing and Arizona very little
The Vikings can steal Maye from the Giants very easily if the Pats take McCarthy.
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This arrangement is what makes the most sense.
--NYG - Drake Maye
--Kraft - A QB (Presumably JJM)
--NE FO - Extra picks to help build their pathetic roster
--Az - A stud WR (Guaranteed top 2 on their board, including a chance at their #1, MHJ) plus additional picks.
And in this scenario, I do not want the Giants giving up their #1... because with Maye and few picks, this team isn't getting much better in 2024. That #1 pick in 2025 might be pretty high.
However, if Maye is what he can become, it's worth it. In a normal draft, he could go #1.
I totally agree. Though the logic makes sense, the details are in the compensation.
Though it's nice to see a more favorable response than I received when I proposed this 2-3 weeks ago and the majority of posters said couldn't happen because 3-way deals don't happen in the NFL. Who knows is this is legit, but I don't buy that response. We know NYG has had talks with NE about trading up. That's hard to refute at this point. We know Ryan Cowden and Monti Ossenfort have a past relationship. Is it that hard to believe Schoen could suggested they get on the phone and at least talk it over if this were the path to get the QB they covet?
Sure, but Maye needs a team around him. I'm just not sure the Giants have to give up their 2025 #1 to make this work.
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The thing is, that high 2025 draft pick is a lock to towards a QB if not addressed this year. Ultimately, you're evaluating Maye against next years QB prospects.
Sure, but Maye needs a team around him. I'm just not sure the Giants have to give up their 2025 #1 to make this work.
NE gets a pick they otherwise would not have gotten if they take JMS at #3.
The problem is the Cardinals. But do you need to give them a #1 pick to have them accept Nabers instead?
When you have top notch WRs, OLs, etc., who have say, an 85-90% chance of being a force from Day One waiting for us at pick 6, I have real problems with giving up a starting player as well as draft choices for a QB who has say, only a 50% chance of being a great QB and a 50% chance of laying waste to the team's future, because of what it cost us to get him.
I also don't understand what benefit a team can get from telling the TRUTH about what it wants to do in the draft. Therefore, I believe that we only get false
information from the team, and even if were true, it is subject to change without notice.
If a team leaks its plans because of negligence or stupidity, what hope is there that a team with stupid or negligent leadership will do well.
The only team not showing cards are the Chargers....
And NE drafted JJM.
What am saying is
The 3 way trade shouldn't cost the Giants a fortune.
As Arizona is only one risking anything....and minor at that.
Exactly. And if the FO wants extra draft picks, the only way they can get that without pissing Kraft off is dealing to 4. But Az isn't isn't looking to trade up, and they don't want to move too far back and risk missing out on one of the big 3 wideouts, so...
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wants JMS, the only way he is sure to get him is at #3 or #4.
Exactly. And if the FO wants extra draft picks, the only way they can get that without pissing Kraft off is dealing to 4. But Az isn't isn't looking to trade up, and they don't want to move too far back and risk missing out on one of the big 3 wideouts, so...
It really is a creative proposal. And it screws the Vikings.
But again, will the Cardinals bite? And this assumes Kraft really wants McCarthy.
The problem is the Chargers. This is why they can't just wait until 6.
The problem is the Chargers. This is why they can't just wait until 6.
This is a good point. The whole thing depends on the Pats and McCarthy. But even if they take him at #3, the Giants could steal try to work out a deal with the Cardinals.
The only team not showing cards are the Chargers....
And NE drafted JJM.
What am saying is
The 3 way trade shouldn't cost the Giants a fortune.
As Arizona is only one risking anything....and minor at that.
Depends on Arizona's view of MHjr compared to Nabers/Odunze. We may view it as minor, but to them????
The only team not showing cards are the Chargers....
And NE drafted JJM.
What am saying is
The 3 way trade shouldn't cost the Giants a fortune.
As Arizona is only one risking anything....and minor at that.
Yes. I think Schoen is getting creative in trying to keep 47 and 2025 1st while still getting the qb they like.
I've been toeing both sides of this line. But to this remark specifically I will say --dealing a future #1 for a QB you anticipate will be your franchise QB happens all the time. We may not want it, but it's far from out of bounds when you are talking about dealing into the top 3 picks in the draft.
If NE can somehow get their guy and an extra pick ( 70? ) just to move back one spot? No brainer.
Key is AZ. Would have to love MHJ and Nabers the same.
Then there's no telling the Pats don't work something out with the Vikings similar to this. This would be the way to truly box out Minnesota.
if the Patriots are not considering that, then the Giants could just watch them take McCarthy and then deal just directly with the Cardinals.
If you are in Schoen's shoes, do you call their bluff or risk losing Maye?
If NE can somehow get their guy and an extra pick ( 70? ) just to move back one spot? No brainer.
Key is AZ. Would have to love MHJ and Nabers the same.
Or at least in the same tier.
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is that what you were getting at... just deal directly with the Cardinals? If so, then yes, that's a good question. Unless there is a real debate going on in New England still about which QB... is that possible? That would seem odd.
Then there's no telling the Pats don't work something out with the Vikings similar to this. This would be the way to truly box out Minnesota.
Yes, but they could lose McCarthy (including to the Giants).
If NE can somehow get their guy and an extra pick ( 70? ) just to move back one spot? No brainer.
Key is AZ. Would have to love MHJ and Nabers the same.
I'm not sure they do.
if the Patriots are not considering that, then the Giants could just watch them take McCarthy and then deal just directly with the Cardinals.
If you are in Schoen's shoes, do you call their bluff or risk losing Maye?
It's not just calling their bluff though, because the Vikings could offer the same godfather package to AZ and AZ could trade back up for one of the receivers or pivot.
This deal is the only way to control your destiny.
The Giants may be trying to tip the scales.
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is are the Patriots really considering the Vikings deal (two #1s this year, 2025 #1)? If so, this deal makes sense from the Giants perspective.
if the Patriots are not considering that, then the Giants could just watch them take McCarthy and then deal just directly with the Cardinals.
If you are in Schoen's shoes, do you call their bluff or risk losing Maye?
It's not just calling their bluff though, because the Vikings could offer the same godfather package to AZ and AZ could trade back up for one of the receivers or pivot.
This deal is the only way to control your destiny.
Yes, and I've raised the possibility of the Cardinals trading up again.