Came into some information recently and will try and share it exactly how it was disseminated.
Was at a very large get together up in North Jersey and a guy I met is apparently a blood relative of someone high up in the front office. Multiple people at the party attested to this fact.
A few drinks in a bunch of us were talking Giants . We went inside and after a few shots he pulled me and my friend aside as we were talking Giants and the draft with him the most knowledgably and intently.
Here's how he layed it out as best I remember: Parameters between Cards, Giants and Pats have been agreed to for a while if draft goes chalk in top 2.
Though front office opinions on Maye vary quite a bit... Enough teams feel Maye is either a top 2 or top 3 QB in this draft and would be QB1 in most others.
Pats boxed out on the guys they have the highest grade on. Lukewarm on Maye do like McCarthy quite a bit . I asked about all the recent rumors saying they favor Maye and he replied if they truly loved Maye you wouldn't hear all this open for business proclamations from the organization period. Are Chicago and Washington doing this?
Went on to say its very true that both Minny and Giants have been negotiating with Pats most heavily and target is Maye. All other media stuff just white noise. Both teams have Maye as significantly higher than any other QB not named Daniels or Williams.
Giants have the high hand though once it became clear that they can deliver what Pats want most and that would also entail getting the Cards involved. Cards want the blue chip WR and Pats want McCarthy most. Pats get some jingle and McCarthy is how he put it. Also said Pats didn't throw their hat in the ring for a near 9 digit deal with Ridley to pair him with Brisset.
Said Cards are loaded but recognize they can get essentially free picks and still end up with the blue chip after the QB slots thin out.
Oh yeah said Burns deal way back was consummated clearly knowing what Pats wanted most and was explained as when QB is a need for your team it takes precedence over everything including pass rusher.
Ultimately said they have parameters as a 3 way trade as well as double trade up. Not sure which way they go as each permutation is slightly different. Might be a surprise player included going to the Patriots.
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In comment 16480571 Eric from BBI said:
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is that what you were getting at... just deal directly with the Cardinals? If so, then yes, that's a good question. Unless there is a real debate going on in New England still about which QB... is that possible? That would seem odd.
Then there's no telling the Pats don't work something out with the Vikings similar to this. This would be the way to truly box out Minnesota.
Yes, but they could lose McCarthy (including to the Giants).
By similar to this with the Vikings I mean a similar 2 step or 3 team trade with Minnesota and LAC. This is the only way to be certain you're getting the QB you want. Which if I was Schoen and I felt conviction about Maye, I would do everything possible to eliminate the potential of losing him. This is the only path to doing that and leave Minnesota no chance to spoil your plans.
TBD.
Giants get their QB.
Pats get extra pick they wouldn't have gotten.
Cards get extra pick, but could lose out on Harrison (they have most to lose... that's why I'm not sure this happens... it would make sense for them if they have two WRs equal on their board).
If the three teams work together it's pretty unlikely Cards lose out unless they have one WR head and shoulders over the next.. I don't see MHJ being selected by Harbaugh at 5..
The last major 3 way deal I can remember in the NFL was the 1987 Eric Dickerson trade.
Colts- Get Dickerson
Rams- Get a bunch of picks from Indy & Buffalo (#1s & #2) & RBs Greg Bell (who became a Pro Bowler) & Owen Gill
Bills- Get Cornelius Bennett from Colts
That trade had established players, this one would be funky for picks, if it would happen.
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I look at this is this...
Giants get their QB.
Pats get extra pick they wouldn't have gotten.
Cards get extra pick, but could lose out on Harrison (they have most to lose... that's why I'm not sure this happens... it would make sense for them if they have two WRs equal on their board).
If the three teams work together it's pretty unlikely Cards lose out unless they have one WR head and shoulders over the next.. I don't see MHJ being selected by Harbaugh at 5..
Unless they trade out to someone who does want him.
To me, this largely depends on the Cardinals' evaluation of the WRs.
TBD.
If Arizona desire is one of the top 2 WR.....can not drop further than 6th
Schoen was talking to both of them in his news conference....
I have a ton of trading down partners....."for your QB NE" . We would love on of the top WRs...."that you covet Arizona".
I understand the Chargers can screw thing up....
so sitting at 6 is a risk. A risk I would take but
I can understand why the Giants wouldn't...so they need to deal with Arizona...and can include NE to completely close loop....with Arizona possibly risking their 1st choice.
It shouldn't be too costly
2) I don't think Chargers would go MHJ, I think it would be Nabers- a complete opposite of Quentin Johnson.
3) I am OK if we give up next year's first rd pick aa long as we keep 47 and 70 this year.
4) Players who could be traded- Slayton (unlikely), Ojulari (very likely) and Neal (quite possibly) and Jones (Pats have cap space).
5) I doubt we would include Thibs in any trade offers.
There are many ways to get creative here and Giants need to sell out to get their guy, which is Maye..
dd in Mass has been mentioning this same trade for a while now. He says he knows some Pats family people. And Woodstock didn't really refute this it seemed.
Has been feeding the gossip...sending out opposing tidbits...
Trading up....trading down....QB ...no QB....etc etc.
You almost need to read between the lines.
If Arizona desire is one of the top 2 WR.....can not drop further than 6th
Schoen was talking to both of them in his news conference....
I have a ton of trading down partners....."for your QB NE" . We would love on of the top WRs...."that you covet Arizona".
I understand the Chargers can screw thing up....
so sitting at 6 is a risk. A risk I would take but
I can understand why the Giants wouldn't...so they need to deal with Arizona...and can include NE to completely close loop....with Arizona possibly risking their 1st choice.
It shouldn't be too costly
Yep, this is really the only way Schoen could secure Maye if he really wants him. And it could cost a lot less than any bidding war with the Vikings. Very creative thinking. I'm a JJM guy, but I've always said I'd be happy with Maye at the right price. This seems like it could be done for a fair price.
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I'm not sure how much credibility we should give to any of these "asshat" reports given that they tend to contradict instead of reinforce each other. Most of the other reports have also consistently said that the Patriots want an "unprecedented" amount of draft capital to move out of #3. Nothing being discussed here as possibly being offered by the Giants meets that criteria. Certainly not any offer that doesn't involve the Giants parting with their #1 next year. And there have been multiple reports that the Giants will not give up that pick as part of any trade. Most of the Patriots beat reporters also seem convinced that NE will pick a QB at #3. Something like this three team trade could happen, but I still think the most likely outcome for the Giants to get Maye is trading directly with Arizona. And I think the most likely outcome overall is that the Giants take Nabers at #6.
dd in Mass has been mentioning this same trade for a while now. He says he knows some Pats family people. And Woodstock didn't really refute this it seemed.
I didn't say there were no "asshat" reports supporting this proposed three-team deal or some other deal that results in the Giants getting Maye. I said that there are many reports from other "asshats" as well as Patriots and national beat reporters saying the exact opposite. In 2019, all the "asshats" here said we were absolutely not taking a QB at #6. They were all wrong.
I think posters are simply assigning undue credibility to any "asshat" report that supports their personal interest for what they want they Giants to do. Those who support trading for Maye at any cost support "asshat" reports that reinforce that possibility, and vice versa. I may admittedly be guilty of that myself. But I have at least acknowledged that the Giants may well "trade the farm" for Maye, even though I absolutely do not want them to do so.
Nobody knows what is going to happen. I have never been more uncertain about what the Giants would do this close to a draft.
Agree with this as well.
Let me know if a poster has stepped up and hit on something worthwhile in either of the last two drafts, in the meanwhile, your best bet may be to just monitor the top 30 visits and guess.
It’s to prevent the Vikings stealing Maye with the patriots. Patriots can still trade down and get their guy. This is genius if true.
If the Pats truly like McCarthy but don't love any QB enough to bypass a mother load deal from Minny, then this deal makes a ton of sense.
Pats at outset of the league meetings said something like 'We'd have to really really love a QB to take him at 3.'
Reading the tea leaves, that probably applies to Caleb and Jayden and then a drop off. At that point the value of a godfather offer from Minny becomes to good too pass up . So Giants path to outbid Vikes was to guarantee Pats get their next highest rated QB (and one whom Kraft supposedly likes a lot) while also providing enough additional draft capital in the process.
In this scenario, Wolf gets his picks as he and Mayo made statements repeatedly about building and winning by acquiring extra picks and Kraft gets his QB.
Again, he didn't give up really any of the ins and outs of the exact terms of the offers by any team involved so some of this is interpolation but he was clear that Minny was a big factor in this driving the price up.
I would gather what has been out there in rumor land that 11,23 2025 1st and potentially more might be involved.
McCown was hired this year as the QB coach and just happens to be Maye's high school coach. I would think that's more than mere coincidence.
Pats move down to 6...
Then Pats trade picks to Arizona back UP to 4 and take McCarthy ??
Is that how this plays out.. that seems to make little sense to me.
Arizona draft MHJ
And we get Maye.
Schoen will be a fool if he gives up premium picks.
BC if the Giants don't do it, the Vikings will move 11 and 23 plus to move to 3 or 4. For example, Pats definitely know AZ would move off of 4. So they collect Minny's picks, use that capital to move back up to 4 for JJM, with Bikes taking Maye at 3.
AZ could then easily make a good offer to get to 5, 6, or 7 and still land one of MHJ, Nabers, or Odunze. I have little doubt that Harbaigh would be willing to trade out of 5 with a good offer. Hell, of Giants miss on both JJM and Maye, with a nice enough offer, they could easily move down to 11. Maybe go Brian Thomas, or non-WR and still have enough assets.
I'm not saying moving up is the best strategy. Indeed, I prefer to call everyone's bluff. Knowing NE prefers JJM, force their hand to make a trade and maneuver back into position for JJM. And if they do...fine. Take Nabers or Odunze or trade down. I think no matter what the Giants will be not very good next year. If Odunze, for example, is the consolation prize, and we go for the QB next year, I'm good with it. Go for broke on the QB next year.
But then your painted into a corner. It's high stakes gambling. Because careers are on the line, I think it leans more heavily into OP's scenario...just get your guy this year and pay what is needed to do so, figure everything else out later.
Pats move down to 6...
Then Pats trade picks to Arizona back UP to 4 and take McCarthy ??
Is that how this plays out.. that seems to make little sense to me.
It actually makes perfect sense.
Pats are willing to trade down if they are guaranteed JJM. The only way that happens is if Giants agree they want Maye and will pick him.
Cardinals get involved because Pats can't swap 3 to 6 and guarantee JJM. Because Minny can trade up to 4 or 5.
So its basically a 3-team deal. Cards get involved because they now know 4 Qb's going 1-2-3-4 in the draft...so they are locked into MHjr or Nabers and get big time draft capital.
Remember that two things very relevant here:
Giants hired a new DC in Shane Bowen, who has a lot of zone coverage in his scheme. Banks' strength is man coverage. If Bowen feels that Banks isn't the best fit, he could be moved.
Second fact is that this draft is heavy in draftable corner talent. Particularly the middle rounds.
Banks could be a guy you put in play.
This would likely be cheaper on draft capital than just trading up to 3, if Schoen pulls this off I'll really respect the creativity.
Remember that two things very relevant here:
Giants hired a new DC in Shane Bowen, who has a lot of zone coverage in his scheme. Banks' strength is man coverage. If Bowen feels that Banks isn't the best fit, he could be moved.
Second fact is that this draft is heavy in draftable corner talent. Particularly the middle rounds.
Banks could be a guy you put in play.
Yes, that's true. I'd hate to see that because he might be one of Schoen's best picks, but you're right. I did mention him being one of the potential guys to move earlier in the thread actually.
Huge surprise seeing how thin they are at QB. If that happens, Banks should be valued at greater than a #1 pick because of the bust rate for first round picks is around 50% and Banks is a hit with 4 more years under team’s control. I can’t see them using that chip but who knows.
"3. New York Giants (via NE) - Drake Maye, QB, UNC
How about this? The New York Giants have been rumored to be interested in a QB during the 2024 NFL Draft, but there’s also reports out there saying they aren’t interested in one this early. Well, what if Patriots de-facto GM Eliot Wolf is interested in moving down a bit? If so, the Giants could offer a strong enough package to move up to the third overall spot to take Drake Maye.
4. New England Patriots (via ARI) - JJ McCarthy, QB, Michigan
So, the Patriots moved down to six initially, but they decided they wanted to try and trade up a couple of picks with the Arizona Cardinals. The Pats moved down and moved back up, and they did this to net a QB they are high on and to net some draft picks. JJ McCarthy is the fourth QB off the board.
5. Chargers - MHJ
6. Arizona Cardinals (via NE) - Malik Nabers, WR, LSU
The Arizona Cardinals moved down two slots from their original first-round pick and are still able to land Malik Nabers, arguably the best WR in the 2024 NFL Draft. The Cardinals get Kyler Murray a true WR1 on the outside."
The next one is based on Sky King 'our Vikings asshat' saying the Vikings are only interested in Maye and next would be Penix. If the Vikings lose Maye to us, then there's less chance of someone jumping over the Patriots for JJM. Then it would be like this.
NFL draft lounge Brian Lambs 4/22/24 mock draft
"3. **Trade** New York Giants (Via Patriots) – Drake Maye, QB, North Carolina
I have my first trade in this 2024 NFL Draft, and I think it’s a little unconventional. If the New England Patriots aren’t sold on Drake Maye, or perhaps they’re in love with JJ McCarthy, then moving a couple of spots down the board would be a smart decision.
4. Arizona Cardinals – Marvin Harrison Jr, WR, Ohio State
If they don’t trade out of this position, then I believe that the Arizona Cardinals would be more than happy to get the best wide receiver in the 2024 NFL Draft class. In this case, that’s Marvin Harrison Jr.
5. Chargers -Joe Alt
6. New England Patriots (Via Giants) – JJ McCarthy, QB, Michigan
In this mock draft, the New England Patriots move back three spots, but are still able to get one of the top quarterbacks in this year’s class. JJ McCarthy’s draft stock skyrocketed this season, which was capped off with the National Championship. I don’t know if he can make it into the top three, but he has the tools and makeup to play like one."
So it's unconventional but doable and creative I guess. Sorry for the long post, but it's not just us at BBI thinking about it.
Period. Don't delude yourself into thinking this is a redline. Nor compare this with the Eli situation. The Giants roster at that point in time, was far superior to what we have currently.
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It would be a 60 million plus cap hit.
Exactly, all of his prorated bonus would accelerate to the current year blowing a big hole in the 2024 salary cap.
The reason he wont be traded is his 35 mil salary that goss with him
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In comment 16480717 George from PA said:
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It would be a 60 million plus cap hit.
Exactly, all of his prorated bonus would accelerate to the current year blowing a big hole in the 2024 salary cap.
He is carrying a 47 mil cap number right now, its not that big a imp to trade him.
The reason he wont be traded is his 35 mil salary that goss with him
Not right now, no, but don't kid yourself that it couldn't happen before the trade deadline if a playoff team loses its QB to an injury for the season. Remember Jones contract is basically voidable after this year.
out of 4/5
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the Giants pay a kings ransom to NE/AZ for the same outcome as if they stay at 6 and pick their guys. This just garantees MINN stays out of 5/6. This bites.
out of 4/5
If he's "the guy" boxing out MINN will be inconsequential. Big if of course, but worth noting.
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In comment 16480934 stoneman said:
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the Giants pay a kings ransom to NE/AZ for the same outcome as if they stay at 6 and pick their guys. This just garantees MINN stays out of 5/6. This bites.
out of 4/5
If he's "the guy" boxing out MINN will be inconsequential. Big if of course, but worth noting.
So NE and NYG make a picking swear deals to pick certain QBs - once the trade is consumated, NYG can pick anybody they want - or trade it to MINN for 3 #1s.
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In comment 16480935 stoneman said:
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In comment 16480934 stoneman said:
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the Giants pay a kings ransom to NE/AZ for the same outcome as if they stay at 6 and pick their guys. This just garantees MINN stays out of 5/6. This bites.
out of 4/5
If he's "the guy" boxing out MINN will be inconsequential. Big if of course, but worth noting.
So NE and NYG make a picking swear deals to pick certain QBs - once the trade is consumated, NYG can pick anybody they want - or trade it to MINN for 3 #1s.
pinkey swear
The Pats would have no guarantee they would get the guy they want by trading down with anyone. They aren't stupid, which this story suggests.
Let me know if a poster has stepped up and hit on something worthwhile in either of the last two drafts, in the meanwhile, your best bet may be to just monitor the top 30 visits and guess.
And yet you continue to read these threads.
The Pats would have no guarantee they would get the guy they want by trading down with anyone. They aren't stupid, which this story suggests.
Agreed - there would be no guarantees for NE.
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The Pats aren't trading back 1 or 2 spots and picking "their" QB. If they have a QB they are staying at 3 picking him unless it's Pennix or Nix, where they can safely trade down.
The Pats would have no guarantee they would get the guy they want by trading down with anyone. They aren't stupid, which this story suggests.
Agreed - there would be no guarantees for NE.
So this is some sort of devious plan by the Giants to land McCarthy instead of Maye? LOL
The Pats would have no guarantee they would get the guy they want by trading down with anyone. They aren't stupid, which this story suggests.
If Schoen snaked the Pats on a deal like this, word would get out, and no one would every deal with him again. He'd effectively kill his ability to be a GM
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In comment 16480950 ZogZerg said:
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The Pats aren't trading back 1 or 2 spots and picking "their" QB. If they have a QB they are staying at 3 picking him unless it's Pennix or Nix, where they can safely trade down.
The Pats would have no guarantee they would get the guy they want by trading down with anyone. They aren't stupid, which this story suggests.
Agreed - there would be no guarantees for NE.
So this is some sort of devious plan by the Giants to land McCarthy instead of Maye? LOL
No. This is a thread on BBI. Didn't we just have one the other day saying the Giants wanted JJ? The Pats can't be 100% sure who the Giants will take. You have even said that yourself. LOL
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The Pats aren't trading back 1 or 2 spots and picking "their" QB. If they have a QB they are staying at 3 picking him unless it's Pennix or Nix, where they can safely trade down.
The Pats would have no guarantee they would get the guy they want by trading down with anyone. They aren't stupid, which this story suggests.
If Schoen snaked the Pats on a deal like this, word would get out, and no one would every deal with him again. He'd effectively kill his ability to be a GM
Schoen has NOT told the Pats who the Giants want. Come on folks, you can't actually believe that he has.
Eric - They aren't telling them a week before the draft. Numerous GMs have stated this over the years on how trades work.