Matt just posted the clip of NYG drafting Thomas Lewis in 1994. He was a WR who was projected nowhere near where he was drafted. ESPN didn't even have highlights of him.
For as great as Young was in the 80s, why was there such a fall off in the 90s? Between this and Cedric Jones, he had some massive whiffs in the first round. He did bring in some players that were part of the core (Strahan & Toomer) were part of SB42, but it does seem like there was a sharp decline after the second super bowl title.
BigBlueVCR
@BigBlueVCR
1994: Draft Week- Secrecy & misdirection is important. You want to keep people guessing at your draft strategy. Except when you do what #NYGiants did & needing a WR & stunned everyone picking Thomas Lewis who was on no one's radar in 1st round. Bad sign when ESPN had 0 highlights |
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https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/draft.htm - ( New Window )
Goatee and everything...
- Post merger: the '70s were awful
- Post FA & salary cap: the '90s were bad
- Post 2011 CBA, emphasis on passing game: '10s and '20s have been horrendous
Oops.
Not too dissimilar from what we're experiencing now. Core moved on and poor drafting and hiring. That's how a franchise spirals downward.
Oops.
I remember that draft like it was yesterday and saying ‘Thomas Lewis? Who the fuck is that?’
Yup paying to keep Hampton was a terrible move, I recall many said so at the time. Young will always be a legend for building the 80s team, but he was a dinosaur at a time when free agency was changing the game
It just shows you how much the NFL has changed. The reaction to a team getting a fullback in the 1st in 2024 would be apocalyptic.
Was Gettleman with us then? Maybe it was him who was there. He’s easily swayed by single game performances…
I looked one of the articles from 1994 after he was cut. They had to do it to get under the salary cap of, wait for it, $39 million.
How times have changed.
It just shows you how much the NFL has changed. The reaction to a team getting a fullback in the 1st in 2024 would be apocalyptic.
The other guy on the Giants radar at the time, because they had age at LB too, was Kanavis McGhee from Colorado. They got him in 2nd round anyway. In going back and looking at all the old draft footage that I've been posting & have scheduled to post the rest of the week, it was crazy how many times ESPN would mention another name for the Giants, and that guy would be taken in the 2nd round. Same with 1988 and Eric Moore & Jumbo Elliott. Even on this pick, Kiper says "Thomas Randolph", who was taken in the 2nd round at CB. So they had their info on who the Giants really liked on their board.
Bunch, in theory, was the replacement for Carthon. Hampton was the replacement for OJ. Parcells had not retired yet, so it just seemed like a continuation of his plan for lead FB & featured RB. Bunch was really good in 1992. He got hurt in 1993 & Reeves didn't like him & got rid of him for a UDFA in Kenyon Rasheed.
But the problem was, times were already changing to the Dallas / Norv offenses & the Bill Walsh proteges & the Giants stuck with their plodding style.
That said, I'd love to have a GM with close to the success of either of the two.
But those seasons, were a little like what it's been like the last decade. Some really bad teams and seasons, but they'd always manage to win enough games to not get that high enough draft pick. Dave Brown, Derek Brown, Thomas Lewis, Wheatley, a couple of misses on the offensive line, and of course Cedric Jones.
It's funny tho, as bad as Cedric Jones was, and I think most Giant fans were bummed they just missed out on Ogden, I think most fans thought Jones was going to be a beast. Also something to keep in mind about that draft, they got Roman Oben in the 3rd round, and he didn't fare particularly well with the Giants, but moved on and eventually signed with San Diego, and had a really good career. Just shows you how impatient fans could be with the offensive line.
except for 1995, he picked a number of good and/or useful players in each draft of the '90s despite whiffing on 1st rounders.
Hilliard, Tiki, Garnes, Toomer, Oben, Kanell, Conrad Hamilton, Way, Randolph, Sehorn, Bratzke, Strahan, Gragg, Armstead, Sparks, Aaron Pierce, Keith Hamilton, Kent Graham, Widmer, McCaffrey.
He hated FA and let it affect his thinking in a bad way. But his biggest fuck up was hiring Handley to replace Parcells. And then allowing him to hire Rod Rust as DefCo.
But those seasons, were a little like what it's been like the last decade. Some really bad teams and seasons, but they'd always manage to win enough games to not get that high enough draft pick. Dave Brown, Derek Brown, Thomas Lewis, Wheatley, a couple of misses on the offensive line, and of course Cedric Jones.
It's funny tho, as bad as Cedric Jones was, and I think most Giant fans were bummed they just missed out on Ogden, I think most fans thought Jones was going to be a beast. Also something to keep in mind about that draft, they got Roman Oben in the 3rd round, and he didn't fare particularly well with the Giants, but moved on and eventually signed with San Diego, and had a really good career. Just shows you how impatient fans could be with the offensive line.
Simms was actually pretty darn good in his last season. He could still play.
see 17 minute mark - ( New Window )
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across his entire 4 year career in the NFL.
Oops.
I remember that draft like it was yesterday and saying ‘Thomas Lewis? Who the fuck is that?’
Rocky Thompson's cousin
Yup. He was not a bust pick. He could do everything well. Too bad.
I didn't say he wasn't good, but he also looked like he could fall off a cliff at any moment, and the offensive line wasn't getting any better.
Quote:
You're the 1991 Giants. You're coming off an amazing Superbowl win. Your defensive core at the linebacker position is aging. You had almost nothing at wide receiver (Meggett led the team in receptions with...39). They proceed to take a fullback.
It just shows you how much the NFL has changed. The reaction to a team getting a fullback in the 1st in 2024 would be apocalyptic.
The other guy on the Giants radar at the time, because they had age at LB too, was Kanavis McGhee from Colorado. They got him in 2nd round anyway. In going back and looking at all the old draft footage that I've been posting & have scheduled to post the rest of the week, it was crazy how many times ESPN would mention another name for the Giants, and that guy would be taken in the 2nd round. Same with 1988 and Eric Moore & Jumbo Elliott. Even on this pick, Kiper says "Thomas Randolph", who was taken in the 2nd round at CB. So they had their info on who the Giants really liked on their board.
Bunch, in theory, was the replacement for Carthon. Hampton was the replacement for OJ. Parcells had not retired yet, so it just seemed like a continuation of his plan for lead FB & featured RB. Bunch was really good in 1992. He got hurt in 1993 & Reeves didn't like him & got rid of him for a UDFA in Kenyon Rasheed.
But the problem was, times were already changing to the Dallas / Norv offenses & the Bill Walsh proteges & the Giants stuck with their plodding style.
McGhee was drafted to be the next gen attack LB as the '80s guys aged out except there was a problem: Rod Rust was a read and react, bend but don't break coach.
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Simms wasn’t good in ‘93? Huh? He was really good & made the Pro Bowl.
I didn't say he wasn't good, but he also looked like he could fall off a cliff at any moment, and the offensive line wasn't getting any better.
My apologies. Misread what you said.
The business of the game changed and George Young refused to change with it. George Young didn't think that players should be well paid. He wanted no part of the NFLPA. If a player pushed back on a salary offer in pre free agency days George Young held a grudge or traded him. He absolutely HATED free agency and basically refused to participate in it until the Giants had fallen behind the rest of the league (again like the 1970s) and he never figured out how to operate in the free agency era.
If you're asking about draft choices post Parcells that's quite an odd history. Looking back the Giants would have been well served to trade out of the 1st round. The 1st round picks in the 1990's were terrible and drafting Dave Brown was a career killer.
But if you look at the drafts between 1991 and 1997 in round 2 we would all be thrilled if Joe Schoen drafted players like Strahan, Sehorn, Tiki, Phillippi Sparks and Toomer all drafted in round 2. Roman Oben round 3, Keith Hamilton in round 4, Sam Garnes round 5, Charles Way round 6, Jessie Armstead round 8 were hits too.
That was the nucleus of a very good team and when Ernie finally got them a QB they won a championship game 41-0.
The business of the game changed and George Young refused to change with it. George Young didn't think that players should be well paid. He wanted no part of the NFLPA. If a player pushed back on a salary offer in pre free agency days George Young held a grudge or traded him. He absolutely HATED free agency and basically refused to participate in it until the Giants had fallen behind the rest of the league (again like the 1970s) and he never figured out how to operate in the free agency era.
If you're asking about draft choices post Parcells that's quite an odd history. Looking back the Giants would have been well served to trade out of the 1st round. The 1st round picks in the 1990's were terrible and drafting Dave Brown was a career killer.
But if you look at the drafts between 1991 and 1997 in round 2 we would all be thrilled if Joe Schoen drafted players like Strahan, Sehorn, Tiki, Phillippi Sparks and Toomer all drafted in round 2. Roman Oben round 3, Keith Hamilton in round 4, Sam Garnes round 5, Charles Way round 6, Jessie Armstead round 8 were hits too.
That was the nucleus of a very good team and when Ernie finally got them a QB they won a championship game 41-0.
Yup... in all of the dogpiling on Young (and he didn't handle free agency well), his drafts in the 1990s were responsible for a few playoff teams, including one that reached the Super Bowl.
He struggled drafting OL but did bring in Stone who was a very good OG from Dallas. Next to QB this was his biggest issue imv.
Much better then that '11-17 timeframe which is the worst drafting period since Young was hired.
Quote:
You're the 1991 Giants. You're coming off an amazing Superbowl win. Your defensive core at the linebacker position is aging. You had almost nothing at wide receiver (Meggett led the team in receptions with...39). They proceed to take a fullback.
It just shows you how much the NFL has changed. The reaction to a team getting a fullback in the 1st in 2024 would be apocalyptic.
The other guy on the Giants radar at the time, because they had age at LB too, was Kanavis McGhee from Colorado. They got him in 2nd round anyway. In going back and looking at all the old draft footage that I've been posting & have scheduled to post the rest of the week, it was crazy how many times ESPN would mention another name for the Giants, and that guy would be taken in the 2nd round. Same with 1988 and Eric Moore & Jumbo Elliott. Even on this pick, Kiper says "Thomas Randolph", who was taken in the 2nd round at CB. So they had their info on who the Giants really liked on their board.
Bunch, in theory, was the replacement for Carthon. Hampton was the replacement for OJ. Parcells had not retired yet, so it just seemed like a continuation of his plan for lead FB & featured RB. Bunch was really good in 1992. He got hurt in 1993 & Reeves didn't like him & got rid of him for a UDFA in Kenyon Rasheed.
But the problem was, times were already changing to the Dallas / Norv offenses & the Bill Walsh proteges & the Giants stuck with their plodding style.
It's the same pattern. Whenever this franchise has success. They can't let it go and move on and adapt. We are still stuck in the post Eli era in some ways.
Young obviously did some great things early and turned everything around from the 70s. But a lot of luck is involved. In fact... The most important executive in franchise history may have been the saints GM at that time. The Giants howevwe are good at convincing themselves they are better than others and above it all when luck swings their way. I think that is still true.
Ah, McGhee, looked like Tarzan played like Jane!
Hey! Not fair!