It's interesting, last week we heard JJM with Schrager's mock and GoDeep's post. In the last 48 hours or so, it feels like all the talk is a trade up for Maye, draft WR or trade down.
It's starting to feel like it's Maye or bust for QB, but maybe that's just smoke too.
Second, it was be an insane start to the draft.
I think this is the big one. It is like when everyone wanted Jayden Daniels early and then when it was all but confirmed to Commanders wanted him that all the talk about him stopped and shifted to someone else. Then it came out the Patriots supposedly didn't like Maye but did like McCarthy, so naturally he is now the one the Giants should target.
Second, it was be an insane start to the draft.
Be great if we got Maye, but I personally don't see that 3 team deal working out in the end.
Arizona is then on the clock at 4 and NE trades up and takes JJM.
It's essentially a 3 team trade but it will be executed as two separate deals.
Arizona is then on the clock at 4 and NE trades up and takes JJM.
It's essentially a 3 team trade but it will be executed as two separate deals.
It would be considered a three team trade since the Patriots won't agree to our deal unless the Cardinals agree to their deal, so it would need to be executed together. Patriots can't risk trading back and the Cardinals backing out or taking another offer at the last second.
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Three separate insiders backing each other up. That's about as definitive as you can get. This is starting to feel real.
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Three separate insiders backing each other up. That's about as definitive as you can get. This is starting to feel real.
Or they are leaking it because they want him.
The Giants would know. Not debatable.
JJ reportedly impressed Daboll greatly in his ability to break things down under intense oral examination. (this is why I think Daboll was the leak of the Giants interest JJ). Daboll looked ill after that was reported. All quiet on the JJ front since.
I REALLY think it’s JJ.
For the QBs within reach, is this your level on confidence list?
1. Penix
2. JMac
3. Maye
4. Nix
5. Rest
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But I'll take that over the current state of affairs. Gotta try.
For the QBs within reach, is this your level on confidence list?
1. Penix
2. JMac
3. Maye
4. Nix
5. Rest
Penix
JJ
Nix
Maye
Rest
I'd rather they trade up for Maybe than take Nabers at 6, though. What bugs me about this process is it feels like full bloom love with no fallback plan at QB. Basically what they did with Eli - trade a bunch when there were two good alternatives right there for them. That worked out, but I think that was luck and not an actual good plan.
That would be nice. My 1a. JJM 1b Maye
X2
Arizona is then on the clock at 4 and NE trades up and takes JJM.
It's essentially a 3 team trade but it will be executed as two separate deals.
True, but in essence, 3 teams are making deals that are all connected.
I do agree with you about the concern the Giants are locked in on Maye. I'm fine with them looking to trade up for Maye, but there should be a backup plan to slide down from 6 and look to draft Penix or Nix if it's available.
Go for Maye or trade down and collect assets and still come away with Penix or Nix. Sticking at 6 and drafting Nabers is 2018 all over again imo.
The Giants would know. Not debatable.
JJ reportedly impressed Daboll greatly in his ability to break things down under intense oral examination. (this is why I think Daboll was the leak of the Giants interest JJ). Daboll looked ill after that was reported. All quiet on the JJ front since.
I REALLY think it’s JJ.
And he has not scratched the surface of what he could become.
One of the most significant predictors of QBs success is their age at the time of being drafted.
What you see from a 5th-year player who is 24 is what you get.
Don't expect more from Penix, Nix, etc.
I prefer JJ to Maye and I hope that the Giants have the opportunity to draft him at 6.
JJ McCarthy reached the state title game at QB in 2017, 2018 and 2019 winning the title as a sophomore in 2018 at Nazareth HS.
He was 8-0 at IMG as a senior and finished #1 in the nation.
At Michigan he went to two CFPs in both years winning a title in 2023-2024.
He finished 36-2 in high school and 27-1 in college as a starter for a total of 63-3 since he was 15 years old.
When you try and figure out why NFL teams like McCarthy more than the rest of us, there is a lot of talk about his intangibles and history as a winner.
another nugget...
I recall you were not enamored with Nix's throwing performance at the Combine. So, I thought you were more bearish on him.
I've come around on Nix - not the full 180 - and think he's improved to the point where I would invest a second day pick in him if Schoen can't make it work in the lottery. And I'd be perfectly comfortable failing with Nix for two years than failing in year six with Jones.
Hmmmm. I was told no on McCarthy. Maye or wide receiver are the targets.
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I could even flip flop Nix and McCarthy. I liked what I saw of Nix better, but I'm influenced by what I read from smart people like Sy and Randy Mueller.
I recall you were not enamored with Nix's throwing performance at the Combine. So, I thought you were more bearish on him.
I've come around on Nix - not the full 180 - and think he's improved to the point where I would invest a second day pick in him if Schoen can't make it work in the lottery. And I'd be perfectly comfortable failing with Nix for two years than failing in year six with Jones.
Yeah I'd be concerned a bit about Nix but I think he can operate the offense. Mike Lombardi compared him to Andy Dalton, and that felt about right. Maybe could be better if things break right.
How absolutely frustrating would it be if the most talented quarterback Daboll gets a crack at is a 4th year Jones?
Might as well have hired Martindale as the head coach.
So I guess it’s Maye, a wide receiver or a trade down. If JJM is there at 6 they may get some decent trade proposals.
How absolutely frustrating would it be if the most talented quarterback Daboll gets a crack at is a 4th year Jones?
Might as well have hired Martindale as the head coach.
That's the thing. We hired this guy in large party because he's supposed to be a QB whisperer. Instead of getting wrapped up in ranking these QBs we should be talking more about what they each do well and what they don't, and being open to different options instead of falling in full bloom love.
the age argument ≠ a younger player has a longer career
the age argument is that the player is less experienced and their accomplishments a little more meaningful having come against more experienced players as compared to players who needed 1-2k more snaps before finding success (against less experienced players).
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Nix is a great subject for the Daboll lab. It's time for a fresh build.
How absolutely frustrating would it be if the most talented quarterback Daboll gets a crack at is a 4th year Jones?
Might as well have hired Martindale as the head coach.
That's the thing. We hired this guy in large party because he's supposed to be a QB whisperer. Instead of getting wrapped up in ranking these QBs we should be talking more about what they each do well and what they don't, and being open to different options instead of falling in full bloom love.
Agreed. But Daboll made his bed and my guess is he’s feeling pressure to win and thinks a rookie qb will not do that.
the age argument ≠ a younger player has a longer career
the age argument is that the player is less experienced and their accomplishments a little more meaningful having come against more experienced players as compared to players who needed 1-2k more snaps before finding success (against less experienced players).
I heard someone discussing this today on the radio. Not sure if you can totally trust that sample size, but it does sure look bad for older QBs drafted with high picks since 2010. I always try to remind myself, however, that each draft is independent of the prior(s). So, hard to know what's truly a valid trend.
I do think there is a legitimate point of view that these older QBs may look much better later in their career because of their total experience/maturity and being completely comfortable to that game speed. Things really slow down...
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you guys are dazzled by the explosive p12 statlines/passing attacks, but as prospects both penix and nix come with a lot more baggage. there are things i like and dislike about both of them but id easily prefer maye or jjm bc they have much more projection.
the age argument ≠ a younger player has a longer career
the age argument is that the player is less experienced and their accomplishments a little more meaningful having come against more experienced players as compared to players who needed 1-2k more snaps before finding success (against less experienced players).
I heard someone discussing this today on the radio. Not sure if you can totally trust that sample size, but it does sure look bad for older QBs drafted with high picks since 2010. I always try to remind myself, however, that each draft is independent of the prior(s). So, hard to know what's truly a valid trend.
I do think there is a legitimate point of view that these older QBs may look much better later in their career because of their total experience/maturity and being completely comfortable to that game speed. Things really slow down...
the covid guys who got 5-6 years especially. thats why i hated pickett so much.
Yep. I have always figured if it was anyone they liked (that would realistically be potentially available) it was Maye. I still think that. And I have a feeling Patriots are going to take him. I don't think they want McCarthy and they need a QB even worse than we do. But who the hell knows... lol
Rumor is that JJ turned the Giants off by saying he was only available for a private workout for them on Easter Sunday, And that didn’t go over well with the franchise leads.
the covid guys who got 5-6 years especially. thats why i hated pickett so much.
The Weeden thing always makes me laugh. That was such a Cleveland thing to do back in the day.
Which QB room was worse? 2023 NYG or 2012 Browns with Weeden, McCoy and Thad Lewis/Josh Johnson?
Agreed
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The Pats are on the clock at 3 and you see that Patriots logo in the bottom left of the screen change to a lowercase 'ny' indicating NYG is on the clock.
Arizona is then on the clock at 4 and NE trades up and takes JJM.
It's essentially a 3 team trade but it will be executed as two separate deals.
True, but in essence, 3 teams are making deals that are all connected.
Since this is all hypothetical, it is feasibly possible that the Giants give something to the Cardinals as well as the Patriots to help cover their costs for "moving back up" as part of their end of the deal. Then it would become a true three team trade.
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Rumor is that JJ turned the Giants off by saying he was only available for a private workout for them on Easter Sunday, And that didn’t go over well with the franchise leads.
That's odd. Where did you hear that?
This could be an ultimate smoke screen by Schoen if he really loved JJM and pick him at 6. Schoen could pretend they were going all in on Maye, but really he wanted JJM at 6 without trading up. This suspense is killing me.
I told Eric get a back up hamster.. or consider upgrading to a guinea pig
And he has not scratched the surface of what he could become.
One of the most significant predictors of QBs success is their age at the time of being drafted.
What you see from a 5th-year player who is 24 is what you get.
Don't expect more from Penix, Nix, etc.
I prefer JJ to Maye and I hope that the Giants have the opportunity to draft him at 6.
Agreed.
This could be an ultimate smoke screen by Schoen if he really loved JJM and pick him at 6. Schoen could pretend they were going all in on Maye, but really he wanted JJM at 6 without trading up. This suspense is killing me.
I think the opinions from Breer, Brugler and Jeremiah re: JJM and the Giants is them drawing their own conclusions based on what other teams and/or agents have told them. Specifically, I think one or more of those guys may have gotten information that Denver and/or Minnesota have spoken to the Giants about trading back from #6. That would lead these guys to conclude that the Giants must be out on McCarthy if they are entertaining a trade back from #6. That could be the case or it could be Schoen is talking with these teams to see if he can get an offer that would give him the draft capital this year to better build out the roster and the draft capital next year to get a QB.
In terms of talking to agents, its also possible Breer, Brugler and Jeremiah have spoken to the agents for the three WRs and the agent for McCarthy that the agents for the three WRs have said that the Giants have been very positive with them, while McCarthy's agent has said that the Giants have been lukewarm. From this, Breer, Brugler and Jeremiah all conclude that the Giants must be down on McCarthy. Again, this could be the case or it could be that the Giants told McCarthy's team to not publicize the Giants' interest.
Before you dismiss the possibility of the Giants telling McCarthy to downplay their interest, Pat Leonard had a really interesting tweet re: talking to Drake Maye that I'll quote below. Basically, when Leonard asked Maye about meeting John Mara, Maye clammed up and didn't answer. I think that shows that someone told Maye not to get into the subject of meeting Mara because that would be a giveaway that the Giants are interested based on what Mara said at the owner's meetings. McCarthy and his camp could have received the similar instructions
@PLeonardNYDN
Just spoke with UNC QB Drake Maye 👀
He said he liked watching Tom Brady Patriots tape with Giants HC Brian Daboll: “Makes me want to play in that type of offense”
“It was just really cool watching the old Patriots tape and seeing him coach Tom and say, ‘Hey, this what Tom was thinking, he’s taking Gronk across the middle,'” Maye told @NYDNSports from a @raisingcanes event in Detroit at the @NFLDraft. “Some of that stuff was pretty cool, and it makes me want to play in that type of offense.”
I also asked if he met Giants co-owner John Mara and how that went.
“Um, I’m not gonna speak on anything,” Maye said respectfully. “Sorry about that. Yes sir.”