| I've been told the Giants and Vikings are the two teams that have been most active in discussions with the Patriots about the No. 3 pick, and that if Washington takes Daniels at No. 2, the Giants would be very interested in trading up to No. 3 for Maye. I've also been told in recent days that the Giants like Penix and might even be willing to take him as high as No. 6. There's a lot of chatter flying around, but what is clear is that the Giants have done significant work on the quarterbacks and are very open, if not desperate, to come out of Thursday night with one of them. |
Penix is rumored to be a fit for Minn and NE if they dont take McCarthy
Because it is a reach (health questions alone).. But if Maye and JJM are gone then where do you go?
It seems pretty obvious to me that the Giants have decided Jones is not the guy (both play and health)..
If Penix is after JJM, then I would try to move back to 9/10 and grab him there.. But whatever at this point I think we know they want a QB..
Many, but this has always been a last-ditch type option. I even talked about it on the Scout's Honor podcast.
The issue is Penix could go as high as the teens, and as low as the 2nd round. Depends on medicals.
I suspect that you are right and people who do that, misunderstand the draft.
We have the 6th pick. We dont have the 15th pick (or whatever pick makes Penix Palatable) and if you attempt to trade back you first have to find a willing partner and you likely lose the QB you want.
I understand that complaint if it is likely that Penix would be there at 47 but he wont be.
And what if they trade back and some team jumps ahead and takes Penix? I do agree with Terps that if Penix is good enough to be taken at 12, then why not at 6...
I for one would love a trade back that nets a couple extra picks and then they select Penix.
Needs to operate from a clean pocket, did not look great in the game against a pro-style defense (Michigan), injury concerns....
At this point, I think I am Maye or bust. Either trade up for him or trade back for the best WR available.
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then people here are going to be screaming again that we reached.
I suspect that you are right and people who do that, misunderstand the draft.
We have the 6th pick. We dont have the 15th pick (or whatever pick makes Penix Palatable) and if you attempt to trade back you first have to find a willing partner and you likely lose the QB you want.
I understand that complaint if it is likely that Penix would be there at 47 but he wont be.
It goes back to the George Young quote after drafting Simms. "Well, we don't have a late first round pick."
I don't believe in reaching on QBs, you either get it right or don't.
Click bait.
As I see all the rumors shake out closer to the draft I can't help but notice they're starting to show a pattern that we're disinterested in McCarthy.
Is it possible that McCarthy is our guy and Schoen is trying to convince the Vikings that they don't need to jump ahead of us if Maye goes to the Pats so McCarthy falls to 6?
Sure.
From this point on, don't assume anything is the truth.
The stakes are too high.
Forcing the issue will result in new management in 2025 and a new coaching staff.
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So teams up their offers to move up?
Sure.
From this point on, don't assume anything is the truth.
The stakes are too high.
Yep, if I’m the Broncos or Raiders, this lights a fire under my butt to secure the next QB on my board.
Decreasing what we’d need to move up would make more sense I think. But I don’t think this noise actually helps or hurts in the grand scheme of things.
Forcing the issue will result in new management in 2025 and a new coaching staff.
The problem is doing nothing could have the same result.
Welcome to QB hell.
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So teams up their offers to move up?
Decreasing what we’d need to move up would make more sense I think. But I don’t think this noise actually helps or hurts in the grand scheme of things.
I can see it working both ways.
and then trade back in to the first or early 2nd to take Penix even including 2025 1st. That is if they have conviction Penix is the guy.
Taking him at 6 isn't bad because of the player, it's bad because he's projected to go much later. it's like the Patriots picking Logan Mankins in the 1st. the guy is a borderline HOFer, but reality is he was more than likely going to be available much later (like rounds later). so it represented bad value where they selected him, just like Penix would at 6.
IOW, put simply for the mouth breathers, if the Patriots took Tom Brady in the 1st round of the 2000 NFL draft it would have been a terrible pick and he's arguably the GOAT QB and it has nothing to do with that.
This guy always swings and misses. Now if garafolo reported this, it would be a different story.
This.
This is a good point.
If Penix is New England's fallback with a trade down, the Giants may have just put some doubt in their minds.
and then trade back in to the first or early 2nd to take Penix even including 2025 1st. That is if they have conviction Penix is the guy.
Taking him at 6 isn't bad because of the player, it's bad because he's projected to go much later. it's like the Patriots picking Logan Mankins in the 1st. the guy is a borderline HOFer, but reality is he was more than likely going to be available much later (like rounds later). so it represented bad value where they selected him, just like Penix would at 6.
IOW, put simply for the mouth breathers, if the Patriots took Tom Brady in the 1st round of the 2000 NFL draft it would have been a terrible pick and he's arguably the GOAT QB and it has nothing to do with that.
He may not be there. There’s buzz the Raiders are taking him at 13
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a far better strategy would be to make the pick at 6. Nabors, Odunze, whoever.
and then trade back in to the first or early 2nd to take Penix even including 2025 1st. That is if they have conviction Penix is the guy.
Taking him at 6 isn't bad because of the player, it's bad because he's projected to go much later. it's like the Patriots picking Logan Mankins in the 1st. the guy is a borderline HOFer, but reality is he was more than likely going to be available much later (like rounds later). so it represented bad value where they selected him, just like Penix would at 6.
IOW, put simply for the mouth breathers, if the Patriots took Tom Brady in the 1st round of the 2000 NFL draft it would have been a terrible pick and he's arguably the GOAT QB and it has nothing to do with that.
He may not be there. There’s buzz the Raiders are taking him at 13
If Penix didn't have the medicals, he'd be talked about in the top 2 in my opinion. If they are not worried about the medicals, I would have no issue with him at 6. He's a great kid with huge upside. It would also signal the giants are ready to break their "qb mold" as he is the complete opposite of anything we have had before.
Yeah definitely helps on multiple fronts. It’s beautiful, really.
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then people here are going to be screaming again that we reached.
Many, but this has always been a last-ditch type option. I even talked about it on the Scout's Honor podcast.
The issue is Penix could go as high as the teens, and as low as the 2nd round. Depends on medicals.
I'm not concerned about medicals....as he's been clean for 2+ years. I'm concerned about the RT covering his blind side.
it's like Daniel Jones won't be there at 17 all over again.
Hopefully Schoen doesn't react to the "buzz is...." like fans do.
it's like Daniel Jones won't be there at 17 all over again.
Hopefully Schoen doesn't react to the "buzz is...." like fans do.
For the record I don’t believe the Giants are taking Penix at 6, but leaking this for leverage.
Ideally, we can take advantage of the fact that there will be true blue chippers at premium positions available at 6 and exploit the Titans, Falcons, Bears for picks while we keep the fallback QB target in arms reach. This goes for JJM too.
it's like Daniel Jones won't be there at 17 all over again.
Hopefully Schoen doesn't react to the "buzz is...." like fans do.
No one is leaking the Giants may take Penix at 6 except for the Giants.
It doesn't serve anyone else's purpose. But it serves New York's purpose.
and then trade back in to the first or early 2nd to take Penix even including 2025 1st. That is if they have conviction Penix is the guy.
Taking him at 6 isn't bad because of the player, it's bad because he's projected to go much later. it's like the Patriots picking Logan Mankins in the 1st. the guy is a borderline HOFer, but reality is he was more than likely going to be available much later (like rounds later). so it represented bad value where they selected him, just like Penix would at 6.
IOW, put simply for the mouth breathers, if the Patriots took Tom Brady in the 1st round of the 2000 NFL draft it would have been a terrible pick and he's arguably the GOAT QB and it has nothing to do with that.
Trading back into the first, to the mid teens, would be expensive, probably this and next years 2nd plus some. And that’s if he’s there. Giant risk if you like the player.
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a far better strategy would be to make the pick at 6. Nabors, Odunze, whoever.
and then trade back in to the first or early 2nd to take Penix even including 2025 1st. That is if they have conviction Penix is the guy.
Taking him at 6 isn't bad because of the player, it's bad because he's projected to go much later. it's like the Patriots picking Logan Mankins in the 1st. the guy is a borderline HOFer, but reality is he was more than likely going to be available much later (like rounds later). so it represented bad value where they selected him, just like Penix would at 6.
IOW, put simply for the mouth breathers, if the Patriots took Tom Brady in the 1st round of the 2000 NFL draft it would have been a terrible pick and he's arguably the GOAT QB and it has nothing to do with that.
Trading back into the first, to the mid teens, would be expensive, probably this and next years 2nd plus some. And that’s if he’s there. Giant risk if you like the player.
Right, but again, that is a better strategy than 36 hours before the draft adjusting your draft board for a player that had been projected late 1st/early 2nd to pick him at 6 because you suddenly believe the "buzz" in peak lying season.
@PLeonardNYDN
What I can tell you about Michael Penix Jr. & #Giants:
1. Giants sent every critical person to Washington's pro day where they also had dinner with the Huskies QB
2. QB coach Shea Tierney worked with Penix Jr. on the field at both Senior Bowl AND NFL Combine, as well
3. Joe Schoen seemed to intimate last week that Giants were comfortable with Penix Jr.'s medical, indirectly noting that when a player responds well to surgeries and issues, that's a good indicator
4. Penix Jr. ultimately did NOT take a top 30 visit to the Giants. This could mean something, or nothing. Meeting ownership in some form a key component, though
Ideally, we can take advantage of the fact that there will be true blue chippers at premium positions available at 6 and exploit the Titans, Falcons, Bears for picks while we keep the fallback QB target in arms reach. This goes for JJM too.
Even if this rumor were true, I don't think Nix is in play for the Giants at 6. This was more along a reference of QBs the Giants like. (He's in the no-mans land between our two picks).
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"the buzz is" the Giants are getting played.
it's like Daniel Jones won't be there at 17 all over again.
Hopefully Schoen doesn't react to the "buzz is...." like fans do.
No one is leaking the Giants may take Penix at 6 except for the Giants.
It doesn't serve anyone else's purpose. But it serves New York's purpose.
Graziano names his source as the Giants? All he says is in the clip above is "I've been told" is there detail in the link (it's ESPN+ which I do not have) where he says it's the Giants telling him this?
Each of the top 6 have potential pros/cons. Penix is no different. His pure passer prowess is easy to see (less of a projection that JJM and some others).
The Giants have aggressively sought out the QB's and have been rumored to want multiple QB's and linked to trade up options for Maye/Daniels/JJM and now ok with Penix at 6. How does Jones (the person) even want to play here after this? More importantly how would the Giants organization and staff be able to sell Jones as the QB to the team, many of whom were added last year (offensively) and this year with no "bond" or attachment to Jones in place...
To me, this is as close to Kerry Collins 2004 offseason as you will ever see or even Jimmy G with SF two years ago..
Of course, he doesn't say where he got it.
Again, releasing this info makes a lot of sense if the Giants want to deter New England from trading down with the Vikings.
The Vikings are our #1 problem right now.
Does the reference to Penix and not JJM suggest knowledge that JJ won't be there at 6? There is a lot to unravel in that question, IMO.
But Penix....oh...I don't know at 6.
None of you know what QB will hit....all are a risk....a major risk!
None of you know the order the Giants have them....
But Penix....oh...I don't know at 6.
None of you know what QB will hit....all are a risk....a major risk!
None of you know the order the Giants have them....
Well, we can start another Daniel Jones sucks thread if that makes you happy.
But Penix....oh...I don't know at 6.
None of you know what QB will hit....all are a risk....a major risk!
None of you know the order the Giants have them....
True but many of us have clear issues with a guy with a lengthy injury history.. With our injury history that has to be considered.
Does the reference to Penix and not JJM suggest knowledge that JJ won't be there at 6? There is a lot to unravel in that question, IMO.
What everyone needs to understand is there is a massive battle going on behind the scenes between the Giants and Vikings for Maye.
So why not take the guy with the most injuries who also struggles with pressure.
It would be a typical Giants move. Maybe in round 2 we can take a guy with a lot of injuries and is contemplating retirement?
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In comment 16482663 DefenseWins said:
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then people here are going to be screaming again that we reached.
Many, but this has always been a last-ditch type option. I even talked about it on the Scout's Honor podcast.
The issue is Penix could go as high as the teens, and as low as the 2nd round. Depends on medicals.
I'm not concerned about medicals....as he's been clean for 2+ years. I'm concerned about the RT covering his blind side.
There may be a different RT soon.
I don't see it and if the Giants select him I would hope to be wrong.
There are some prognosticators in the media who are far more knowledgeable than I am and who love Penix. He is getting a lot of love lately.
Penix would be a very risky selection for many reasons.
I would not want to be Schoen if Penix were injured in the preseason.
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The next day, NYG leaks that they'd be fine taking Penix at 6. This one is pretty easy to read.
Does the reference to Penix and not JJM suggest knowledge that JJ won't be there at 6? There is a lot to unravel in that question, IMO.
What everyone needs to understand is there is a massive battle going on behind the scenes between the Giants and Vikings for Maye.
Of course. NYG is telling NE --don't just trade back to 11 and assume Penix will be there for you.
Lots of gamesmanship going on here.
p.s.--What say you to betting Penix at +6000 as the 6th overall pick?
Lots of gamesmanship going on here.
Well, it's so transparent that Kraft could also call our bluff. But regardless, it's a wide leak (if it is an intentional leak).
I’m simply saying your trade up scenario doesn’t appear to be realistic and comes with risk, not sure how that’s considered a better strategy unless you happen to know Penix won’t be taken by anyone else.
I think what is going on right now is the Patriots are trying to goad the Giants into giving up more assets. If the Patriots really want McCarthy, it's a big risk for them to drop too far. Now the Giants are trying to tell them their fallback may be off the table too.
This really comes down to how much of a risk the Patriots want to take. Now NE could simply take McCarthy at #3, but they don't get any extras out of that.
Again, I think the 3-way day makes the most sense for all parties. If stars-and-stripes nails that, he's in gloveone territory.
......
Again, I think the 3-way day makes the most sense for all parties. If stars-and-stripes nails that, he's in gloveone territory.
And if he doesn't, he's dead to us. Dead I tell you!
No, it is still a good thread.
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Is a good sign for those of us wanting Maye. It means we're in the race.
I think what is going on right now is the Patriots are trying to goad the Giants into giving up more assets. If the Patriots really want McCarthy, it's a big risk for them to drop too far. Now the Giants are trying to tell them their fallback may be off the table too.
This really comes down to how much of a risk the Patriots want to take. Now NE could simply take McCarthy at #3, but they don't get any extras out of that.
Again, I think the 3-way day makes the most sense for all parties. If stars-and-stripes nails that, he's in gloveone territory.
Except in the 3-way deal, NE still is guaranteed to get their guy plus assets. It's why it makes sense for them.
Put it this way, if the Giants could get the guy they wanted plus a draft pick, wouldn't you do it?
One person here says the Giants have a "type" for their QB and let's say that is true with various people and teams. Then maybe Mayo wants his QB with Brissett there now and maybe Penix as the young developing QB.. Maybe the Giants know that and that spurred them to drop the hint that don't think he makes it past us if you trade elsewhere.
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Is a good sign for those of us wanting Maye. It means we're in the race.
I think what is going on right now is the Patriots are trying to goad the Giants into giving up more assets. If the Patriots really want McCarthy, it's a big risk for them to drop too far. Now the Giants are trying to tell them their fallback may be off the table too.
This really comes down to how much of a risk the Patriots want to take. Now NE could simply take McCarthy at #3, but they don't get any extras out of that.
Again, I think the 3-way day makes the most sense for all parties. If stars-and-stripes nails that, he's in gloveone territory.
Absolutely. A deal back to 11 without a trade back up is SUPER risky for NE. As I just said, that puts them into the exact position right in QB row MN has been desperate to get out of. For one, unless they LOVE Maye, I think the NE front offense would push hard to make this deal. Their roster is desperate for more picks. If NY controls the path to #4, they have massive advantage with NE.
I think your read is correct. NE sees the situation and is trying to squeeze a little more juice from the lemon. NY is saying --are you sure you want to take a chance like that? Take the deal.
Of course, he doesn't say where he got it.
Again, releasing this info makes a lot of sense if the Giants want to deter New England from trading down with the Vikings.
The Vikings are our #1 problem right now.
I'm getting it. I think maybe some of you are not getting it - this is likely BS and the Giants are almost definitely not taking Penix at 6.
NE not intent in getting a QB is one thing that I absolutely would not buy.
Giants want to box out Vikes for Maye, Pats want to ensure JJ if they move down. It also suggests Vikes may have the upper hand at trading up for #4, if the Pats stay put and draft JJ.
It's all coming into focus, now can Schoen pull it off.
Lol, wasn't it just 3 or 4 days ago, that there were reports that Chicago might take JJM #1?
It serves New York's purpose.
I’m simply saying your trade up scenario doesn’t appear to be realistic and comes with risk, not sure how that’s considered a better strategy unless you happen to know Penix won’t be taken by anyone else.
it's not realistic because 36 hours before the draft - the guy on most draft boards in the 30-40 range suddenly becomes a "realistic option" at 6. lol. Ok.
Prior to this report the Giants getting a WR like Nabers or Odunze at 6 and Penix or Nix sometime after seemed completely realistic.
Sometime after could be a trade back into the 1st, a trade up in the 2nd, but it certainly seemed realistic and it probably still is unless you believe things that get released 36 hours before the draft.
Giants want to box out Vikes for Maye, Pats want to ensure JJ if they move down. It also suggests Vikes may have the upper hand at trading up for #4, if the Pats stay put and draft JJ.
It's all coming into focus, now can Schoen pull it off.
Ding...ding...ding....
If Maye gets to #4, then it is us versus the Vikings 2.0 and that may be harder to win. Why? Because the Cards can trade back and then trade up to #5 still (they've done this before).
Ha. The amount of shit I would take here every time he threw an incompletion would be something, I'm sure.
If the Giants drafted Penix it'd be the biggest surprise they've ever handed me in almost 40 years as a fan. No way that happens.
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They would be fools to trade back into QB row. You basically put yourself into the exact position MN has spent this whole time trying to get out of.
Except in the 3-way deal, NE still is guaranteed to get their guy plus assets. It's why it makes sense for them.
Put it this way, if the Giants could get the guy they wanted plus a draft pick, wouldn't you do it?
Of course. I literally proposed the 3-way deal a month ago before anything was out there. I called it a win win win, because it is.
The forum told me it couldn't happen becuase 3-way deals only happen in NBA. BS. NYG was talking to NE --there is no way they wouldn';t leverage the Ryan Cowden connection to bring Az into the mix if that's what it takes to get their guy.
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Giants leak today they're considering Penix at #6 as a response.
Giants want to box out Vikes for Maye, Pats want to ensure JJ if they move down. It also suggests Vikes may have the upper hand at trading up for #4, if the Pats stay put and draft JJ.
It's all coming into focus, now can Schoen pull it off.
Ding...ding...ding....
If Maye gets to #4, then it is us versus the Vikings 2.0 and that may be harder to win. Why? Because the Cards can trade back and then trade up to #5 still (they've done this before).
Cards can't risk losing their WR of choice, if Vikes come to 4 it will probably include JJ.. Doubt they want to do that. My bigger worry would be Vikes at 5.. So overall we need to get to 3 or 4.
Remember, the Vikings will give up THREE #1 picks to the Cardinals. They could easily flip some of that to move up with the Chargers (that deal could already be in place). All that matters to the Cardinals is that they still make out with more draft picks and the same player.
Otherwise, the Giants position here could simply be to let the Patriots take McCarthy and deal directly with the Cardinals right now (which still may happen).
Giants want to box out Vikes for Maye, Pats want to ensure JJ if they move down. It also suggests Vikes may have the upper hand at trading up for #4, if the Pats stay put and draft JJ.
It's all coming into focus, now can Schoen pull it off.
This is spot on. I think this is going to heat up big time today. Now Schoen needs to bring in his closer.
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I don’t think the Giants are adjusting their board 36 hours before the draft. If they liked Penix a month ago they still like him now, and if they didn’t like him a month ago they probably still don’t now either.
I’m simply saying your trade up scenario doesn’t appear to be realistic and comes with risk, not sure how that’s considered a better strategy unless you happen to know Penix won’t be taken by anyone else.
it's not realistic because 36 hours before the draft - the guy on most draft boards in the 30-40 range suddenly becomes a "realistic option" at 6. lol. Ok.
Prior to this report the Giants getting a WR like Nabers or Odunze at 6 and Penix or Nix sometime after seemed completely realistic.
Sometime after could be a trade back into the 1st, a trade up in the 2nd, but it certainly seemed realistic and it probably still is unless you believe things that get released 36 hours before the draft.
So you are quoting draft boards? Strange. Guess McCarthy is out to then.
And I don’t believe this because it’s the day before the draft, I’ve believed Penix and Nix won’t be available after the teens for weeks atleast, possibly months.
Look, the Commanders and Pats may still take Maye and all of this is moot that we will be laughing at in a couple of days.
However, everything coming out the last few days suggests Maye is not their guy.
There are a crap ton of teams after us that need QBs. You can't develop a draft strategy based on "buzz." It is based on who picks in a range, who do they need, and how good can they be.
This is only being floated to discourage NE from trading back to 11 if they like Penix. If nobody had him realistically going in the first round, it would be completely pointless to do it.
(1) the Pats are not in love with Maye. (But they also may be waiting to see if Washington passes on Daniels... this is why no deals until DC picks).
(2) there is someone the Pats want where they don't want to fall too far down on the board (McCarthy and/or Penix?)
Also throw in there the strong possibility that the Cardinals don't want to fall below #6.
Link - ( New Window )
It's all about leverage, and squeezing the deal. Supposedly, the Pats are no longer interested in the Giants offer which was #3.... for #6, 2025 #1 and a 2025 #3.
Supposedly, the Giants are now more interested in trading back a few spots to grab extra draft capital.
It's all posturing at this point, no deal is going to happen until and hour or two before the draft starts.
I do know that Kraft still loves JJM and that they want a QB in this draft. However, JJM wasn't one of the top QB's based on their scouting reports.
So do they reach for JJM, take Maye or trade back? It's still anybody's guess in Foxboro.
NYG doesn't have a pick again until 47. Penix won't be there. If you want him, you take him at 6.
I guess anything is possible... but Penix at 6?
Nice click-bait.
NYG doesn't have a pick again until 47. Penix won't be there. If you want him, you take him at 6.
Go post this on the Patriots version of BBI. It will help Schoen.
Bait taken.
+1
Bait taken.
Mission accomplished...
If you get desperate you most likely make a stupid trade. A QB is not going to help this team win this year. Trading up kills any hope to improve this team this year. Trading up costs a lot more cap money.
Laremy Tunsil understands...
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Laremy Tunsil understands...
Haha, a Tunsil like surprise would be the cherry on top for this years draft run up!
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I do agree with Terps that if Penix is good enough to be taken at 12, then why not at 6...
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Because they would mitigate the risk he presents for health reasons by gaining some additional picks if trading back
I just hope all this smoke means the team is moving on from Daniel Jones.
Has no plan B when a play breaks down as evidenced by the fact that he rushed for just 8 yards last season. (That's not going to work in today's NFL.)
Add in his age (24 before training camps open) and his medicals and I don't even want him in RD-2, let alone @ 6.
Also, from my thread yesterday, here's the review by Beacher Report’s Analyst Derrik Klassen:
“His response to pressure is to either throw it away or throw it up for Odunze… In the NFL you’re going to have to have a lot more.” “He doesn’t have answers to get outside the pocket. His scramble rate was around 1%. In the NFL that’s not going to fly. In 1980 maybe. Today there’s no shot.” “His adjusted accuracy rate is also worse than all the other QBs except for Rattler.” “That’s not great given all the offensive talent he had, plus superior coaching.” “He had everything you could want and he still was not an accurate passer.” “In the 1-10 yard area, he just doesn’t have that timing that rhythm that flexibility to throw it very well and that’s a big hinderance.” “He struggles with touch.”
I agree it's Maye or bust for the Giants. It's also looking like NE will take JJM. That puts the Giants and the Vikings in competition with Arizona for #4. My guess is we win that battle and Maye is a Giant by 9PM tomorrow night. The only way that doesn't happen is if AZ asks for a ridiculous haul of draft picks.
To be honest, there’s no bad situation here for the Giants. Unless they feel Maye is a 12 year franchise QB worthy of #1 overall in any draft. And worth the overpay.
But if all this maneuvering causes the Vikes to overpay to get into the third slot. Or 4th slot.
And AZ to overpay to get back to the 5th slot.
Giants may still be able to choose a dominate WR. Or even better, all those overpays to move up, causes a desired player to fall to six and someone has to pay this years cost to move up to six.
This isn’t a Cedric Jones or Devonta Smith situation IMO. Where there’s less targeted players available than their pick number in the draft.
Anyway, Giants taking Penix at 6 is a non-issue imv, this is about motivating the Pats.
Any chance you have a link to that. I’m blown away reading that. For the simple fact of my blind comments about him int he QB stats thread from yesterday 😮
Anyway, Giants taking Penix at 6 is a non-issue imv, this is about motivating the Pats.
Agreed, I don't think they are seriously considering him at 6 for themselves.
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His response to pressure is to either throw it away or throw it up for Odunze
Any chance you have a link to that. I’m blown away reading that. For the simple fact of my blind comments about him int he QB stats thread from yesterday 😮
The link to that thread is below. The OP contains the link to the interview. QBs are discussed in the first half of the video and the other skill positions in the second half.
QB Takes - ( New Window )
How is this any different than the last few days;)
This is a great thread, BTW! Some good insight.
Has no plan B when a play breaks down as evidenced by the fact that he rushed for just 8 yards last season. (That's not going to work in today's NFL.)
Add in his age (24 before training camps open) and his medicals and I don't even want him in RD-2, let alone @ 6.
Also, from my thread yesterday, here's the review by Beacher Report’s Analyst Derrik Klassen:
“His response to pressure is to either throw it away or throw it up for Odunze… In the NFL you’re going to have to have a lot more.” “He doesn’t have answers to get outside the pocket. His scramble rate was around 1%. In the NFL that’s not going to fly. In 1980 maybe. Today there’s no shot.” “His adjusted accuracy rate is also worse than all the other QBs except for Rattler.” “That’s not great given all the offensive talent he had, plus superior coaching.” “He had everything you could want and he still was not an accurate passer.” “In the 1-10 yard area, he just doesn’t have that timing that rhythm that flexibility to throw it very well and that’s a big hinderance.” “He struggles with touch.”
Not to mention his body is made of porcelain.
Could be motivating the Pats. Could be one last try to get them to agree to the current framework before upping their offer. Could also be pressure to get the Pats to accept the Giants proposal over the Vikings proposal.
I think this is all to try and extort more from NYG.
Picking a black QB at 6 on national TV would go a long way to eliminate that narrative (as ridiculous as I personally think it is) I would imagine.
Penix at 6 is much more ideal than any of the WRs.
I think this is all to try and extort more from NYG.
Agreed, and I would ignore it. We made an offer. Now it's time to tell them to take it or leave it, and if the latter, then we walk away. My guess is they take JJM anyway, and then we can deal with AZ for Maye. But even then, we should take the same approach and not get into a relentless bidding war with the Vikings. Make an offer and say no if AZ asks for more.
I guess I'm in the minority, but I don't think it's a disaster if we don't get JJM or Maye. The disaster would be massively overpaying for either. Take one of the other QBs, maybe after a trade down, or punt the entire issue until next year.
I think this is all to try and extort more from NYG.
I agree. I don't see how the Pats risk going all the way to 11 if they want a specific QB. A HUGE risk for them.
it's not realistic because 36 hours before the draft - the guy on most draft boards in the 30-40 range suddenly becomes a "realistic option" at 6. lol. Ok.
Wow! You have access to most draft boards!?! Do the Giants know this? You should probably contact Schoen. Might hook you up with a sweet job for that intel.
Can we all acknowledge that the order the QBs are taken in the draft isn't going to be how their careers will be ranked?
Penix at 6 is much more ideal than any of the WRs.
I tend to agree. I think a decent chunk of his perceived flaws are him playing within the Washington system and to the strengths of his receivers.
If the team wishes to trade back within the middle of the first round (or better yet, atop the second) to draft either Penix or Nix, so be it.
At 6???
Nabers or Odunze will be there. They make much more sense.
Let the LVR or SEA trade the farm for you at 6, let them take Penix instead and fill the multiple holes in the roster. Otherwise this move makes little sense.
Can we all acknowledge that the order the QBs are taken in the draft isn't going to be how their careers will be ranked?
Amen to this.
We talk about who Eli likes, well IIRC Phil Simms lives this guy. That plays a factor.
Does the reference to Penix and not JJM suggest knowledge that JJ won't be there at 6? There is a lot to unravel in that question, IMO.
+1
+1
I think the rumors of Kraft loving JJM and the front office preferring a trade down with Nix/Penix are most likely true. I obviously think they are wise to prefer JJM or a trade down as I don't like Maye's bust potential. Nevertheless, I'd be excited it Schdabs get Maye because I believe in Daboll's ability to get the most out of QBs. Especially if Schoen can work it to where he somehow doesn't give up 47 or 2025 1st which I think is possible with the 3 team trade and giving up some player(s).
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In comment 16482791 UberAlias said:
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They would be fools to trade back into QB row. You basically put yourself into the exact position MN has spent this whole time trying to get out of.
Except in the 3-way deal, NE still is guaranteed to get their guy plus assets. It's why it makes sense for them.
Put it this way, if the Giants could get the guy they wanted plus a draft pick, wouldn't you do it?
Of course. I literally proposed the 3-way deal a month ago before anything was out there. I called it a win win win, because it is.
The forum told me it couldn't happen becuase 3-way deals only happen in NBA. BS. NYG was talking to NE --there is no way they wouldn';t leverage the Ryan Cowden connection to bring Az into the mix if that's what it takes to get their guy.
Yep, we were the only ones mentioning this back then. I even had people basicly telling me you keep saying this nonsense about a 3 team trade and it's stupid.
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In comment 16482950 Jim in Tampa said:
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His response to pressure is to either throw it away or throw it up for Odunze
Any chance you have a link to that. I’m blown away reading that. For the simple fact of my blind comments about him int he QB stats thread from yesterday 😮
The link to that thread is below. The OP contains the link to the interview. QBs are discussed in the first half of the video and the other skill positions in the second half. QB Takes - ( New Window )
Awesome, thanks Jim
Bait taken.
I felt like Schoen's comment about guys with injuries being cleared by the medical team during his press conference was very intentional.
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And it happens, a lot of fans will be mad but they shouldn’t be. Penix is criminally underrated.
Penix at 6 is much more ideal than any of the WRs.
I tend to agree. I think a decent chunk of his perceived flaws are him playing within the Washington system and to the strengths of his receivers.
Agree with this completely. The idea is to get the QB you can best build an offense around. Many on this site thing the draft is to maximize draft value. It's like going to the store to find the best deal you can get instead of buying what you really want.
The Wrath of Terps may be insufferable... ;)
The Wrath of Terps may be insufferable... ;)
A "great" QB who completely shits the bed in the playoffs...
I'm not suggesting that, but Terps is not shy about reminding people what could have been if his player was a NYG player...
The Wrath of Terps may be insufferable... ;)
Oh, and he (and others) also thought Malik Willis would be a "great" QB. "Great" enough to take in the top 10...
Or did he just go on a hiatus then too?
Oh, and he (and others) also thought Malik Willis would be a "great" QB. "Great" enough to take in the top 10...
That is a mischaracterization. But not surprising.
No one said Willis would be a great QB. The idea was Willis had a high-end toolbox that was worth a first-round investment.
Maye
Big Framed- Check Plus
Tall- Check/Check Plus
High Character- Check
Strong Arm- Check plus
Ceiling- Plus/Plus
Injury history- Check plus
Age- Check plus (young= more room for growth)
McCarthy
Big Framed- Check
Tall- Check minus
High Character- Check plus
Strong Arm- Check plus
Ceiling- Check Plus
Injury history- Check plus
Age- Check plus
Penix
Big Framed- Check
Tall- Check /Check Minus
High Character- Check
Strong Arm- Check plus
Ceiling- Check plus
Injury history- Check minus
Age- Check minus
Nix
Big Framed- Check
Tall- Check minus
High Character- Check
Strong Arm- Check plus
Ceiling- Check plus
Injury history- Check
Age- Minus
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Oh, and he (and others) also thought Malik Willis would be a "great" QB. "Great" enough to take in the top 10...
That is a mischaracterization. But not surprising.
No one said Willis would be a great QB. The idea was Willis had a high-end toolbox that was worth a first-round investment.
So you’re saying you would take a QB with the 5th pick thinking he might not be a great QB?
lol, come on now.
So you’re saying you would take a QB with the 5th pick thinking he might not be a great QB?
lol, come on now.
Of course, you hope the selection becomes great.
'wheels writes that posters were saying Willis would be great. Like he was a sure thing. That was never the case.
The point was, again, to take a shot with a guy who had legit dual threat skills and hope Daboll could develop him.
Particularly from a dupe.
Lol he didn’t take a break. He got called out and couldn’t handle it and came back gloating after Jones worst game of his career. That’s what is lame.