With the Giants CLEARLY interested in a franchise QB what does this mean for Jones going forward? There is NO WAY the Giants can play this as nothing but rumors even if we don't draft a QB early this year.
The Giants have aggressively sought out and scouted the QB's in the 2024 draft and have been rumored to want multiple QB's and even linked to trade up for QB's- Maye/Daniels/JJM. And now they leak they are ok with taking Penix at 6. How does Jones (the person) even want to play here after this? More importantly how would the Giants organization and staff be able to sell Jones as the QB to the team (many of whom were added last year (offensively) and this year with no "bond" or attachment to Jones in place) as their QB after all this talk....
To me, this is as close to Kerry Collins 2004 offseason as you will ever see or even Jimmy G with SF two years ago..
How does Jones (the person) even want to play here after this?
Jones works for the Giants. The Giants don't work for Jones. He's not a good QB. This team needs one to compete. He's as good as gone anyway.
Yeah, maybe we could sneak him into a trade (Patriots, Cardinals, Chargers and Lions all have cap space in 2024 and 2025) where we are basically eating $$$ this year to get him off the roster and get a conditional pick in 2025 or 2026 back..
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How does Jones (the person) even want to play here after this?
Jones works for the Giants. The Giants don't work for Jones. He's not a good QB. This team needs one to compete. He's as good as gone anyway.
I think that is point and your answer is more words than thought. If we don't get a QB Jones is still here. At that point you really can't play him- can't risk injury and the optics with the team would be very bad.
Waiting a few days is needed.
Cap wise his cap hit doesn't change for this year and the dead money in 2025 is the same weather he is cut before or after the season. It would be protection from his injury guarantees and allow him to be free to find a fresh start.
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How does Jones (the person) even want to play here after this?
Jones works for the Giants. The Giants don't work for Jones. He's not a good QB. This team needs one to compete. He's as good as gone anyway.
I think that is point and your answer is more words than thought. If we don't get a QB Jones is still here. At that point you really can't play him- can't risk injury and the optics with the team would be very bad.
I don't think they should play him, both because he is bad and because of the injury clause, but that doesn't mean they *can't*, *won't*, or *shouldn't* play him. He's getting $40M to be on a football team. So, it's awkward, so what?. If the Giants decide they need him to play, he'll have to man up and do the job he's getting paid a fortune to do.
I have personally been in more awkward positions than that, and I wasn't getting paid $40M.
My thought is the Giants won't sell the team on Jones and that he's done whether they get a QB or not. I believe the rumor that Lock was offered a chance to start and that may be what they want. And who knows, I don't believe in the DeVito but I won't rule out that they may see him as a legitimate backup option to Lock, considering that he had a few moments as a rookie FA thrust into a starting position, which is nearly unprecedented. Ergo, you have your top-two QB options even if you don't draft one and Jones doesn't need to see the field.
He's not had a single day of competition for his job since they put him in his rookie year. Everyone else who can say that is probably getting consideration for All Pro most years.
If he would be upset and uncomfortable having to compete for his job given his performance, I think we can cross "competitor" off the list of intangibles the guy has.
Waiting a few days is needed.
Post June 1 cut does not save the Giants anything against the $47M cap hit this year and Jones would still need to pass a physical to avoid $23M injury guarantee next year. If they can find a way to trade Jones after June 1, then they may save more money against the cap but I think they would need to eat some of his guaranteed salary regardless.
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best thing for all parties would be to figure out a way to get Jones off of the roster as soon as possible. I don't know if that is possible or not post-June 1.
Yeah, maybe we could sneak him into a trade (Patriots, Cardinals, Chargers and Lions all have cap space in 2024 and 2025) where we are basically eating $$$ this year to get him off the roster and get a conditional pick in 2025 or 2026 back..
Why would anyone trade for DJ? They know we are getting rid of him anyway, we'd have to eat the cost either way.
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In comment 16482806 Eric from BBI said:
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best thing for all parties would be to figure out a way to get Jones off of the roster as soon as possible. I don't know if that is possible or not post-June 1.
Yeah, maybe we could sneak him into a trade (Patriots, Cardinals, Chargers and Lions all have cap space in 2024 and 2025) where we are basically eating $$$ this year to get him off the roster and get a conditional pick in 2025 or 2026 back..
Why would anyone trade for DJ? They know we are getting rid of him anyway, we'd have to eat the cost either way.
Because he could be an upgrade over most backup QB's and if you are a team geared to win don't you make sure a QB injury doesn't just end your season?
You make a big assumption that Penix will not be one of the busts in this quarterback class. He has never been ranked to go so early. If the Giants choose him, many will accuse them of overreaching.
1) Jones won't be cut until he can pass a physical, which also likely is after June 1, so he'll be a post-June 1 cut no matter what.
2) The chances of a team trading for him, even if the Giants absorb all but the minimum of his salary this year is very small because of his injury guarantee.
3) He can restructure his contract to remove the injury guarantee, which is good for him and the Giants. He should want to be traded instead of cut, as it allows him to earn his 500K workout bonus and he maintains access to the Giants medical and training staff while a trade can be arranged.
$47 million this season and at least $22 mil next season on the hook. If you hated Gettleman for drafting him, this contract is 10x worse.
With the cap money tied up in Jones for the next 2 seasons the Giants are better off going for a QB next season especially since many think any QB we draft should sit this year. Don’t give up picks.
If they don't draft a QB high, then BD better have a really good season imv. I don't think it is all about wins/losses.
Without injury....so yes...injury must get settled.
But a June 1st cut will split the 65ish milllion difference between 2 years.
Again, being so dramatic with your Jones’ takes. Get him off the roster as soon as possible? What if Giants aren’t able to draft a QB this year?
Shelving Jones on the other hand could be in both party's best interest.
As described above, if Jones is cut he immediately loses access to the medical and training staff. And while he can certainly afford that independently, rehabbing through a team is both free and allows a level of transparency and trust with other teams.
And although the Giants would likely pay the full workout bonus, he technically could lose the prorated portion.
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How does Jones (the person) even want to play here after this?
Jones works for the Giants. The Giants don't work for Jones. He's not a good QB. This team needs one to compete. He's as good as gone anyway.
Seriously, nobody gives a shit about Evan Neal's feelings when they suggest drafting another tackle, why the hell do we need to consider Jones's feelings for merely discussing the possibility of drafting another QB.
Jesus Christ, Jones has had everything go right in his entire athletic life just to end up where he is, and people act like he's perpetually mistreated. He's a grown up in a grown up business, he can deal with it or he can retire.
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best thing for all parties would be to figure out a way to get Jones off of the roster as soon as possible. I don't know if that is possible or not post-June 1.
Again, being so dramatic with your Jones’ takes. Get him off the roster as soon as possible? What if Giants aren’t able to draft a QB this year?
At this point, you're becoming background noise.
Simms won the first five starts of his rookie year in 1979;he was 6–4 as a starter, threw for 1,743 yards and 13 touchdown passes, and was named to the NFL All-Rookie Team.
Simms' next four years were marred by injuries and inconsistent play. He finished the 1980 season with 15 touchdowns and 19 interceptions, while completing a subpar 48.0% of his passes for 2,321 yards. In 1981, Simms threw for 2,031 yards, 11 touchdowns, and 9 interceptions on 54.4% completion percentage before suffering a separated shoulder in a November 15 loss to the Washington Redskins.
With Simms out, the Giants went on a run led by Scott Brunner and advanced to the second round of the playoffs.
One of Parcells' first decisions as coach was to replace Simms as the starting quarterback with Brunner.[17] Simms asked to be traded after the benching, but his request was ignored.
During his first few years on the team, Giants fans were merciless in their treatment of Simms, who they felt was a disappointment. He commented that his wife "had to sit up in the stands and listen to them cuss me.
Not saying that Jones is as good as Simms, but Simms came very close to losing his career and I was one of the ones booing.
It's all they have left other than "we'll always have Minnesota".
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best thing for all parties would be to figure out a way to get Jones off of the roster as soon as possible. I don't know if that is possible or not post-June 1.
Again, being so dramatic with your Jones’ takes. Get him off the roster as soon as possible? What if Giants aren’t able to draft a QB this year?
We are not going to be worse off with Tommy Cutlets or Drew Lock than we are with Daniel Jones
People seem to conveniently forget that they could have kept Simms forever given the system in place at the time. They surely didn't have to deal with salary cap ramifications of a massive contract.
Under the current CBA, they would have probably drafted Jim Kelly or Dan Marino in 1983 and been just fine.
Bringing up Simms isn't any more relevant than Charlie Conerly.
If Jones survives Thursday and Friday with Schoen not selecting a QB, Jones has $160M reasons to accept the situation, maybe get a big chip on his shoulder, and step up and have a great season.
In other words, he controls his own fate.
That's how I feel as well. Start Drew Lock if you have to.
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how do the GIANTS sell the team on Jones after it was obvious they wanted someone else. To me we have reached and crossed the Rubicon and Jones is pretty much done here.
If Jones survives Thursday and Friday with Schoen not selecting a QB, Jones has $160M reasons to accept the situation, maybe get a big chip on his shoulder, and step up and have a great season.
In other words, he controls his own fate.
As for the rest of the team, that's Daboll's job to figure out. If he's a good leader and HC, he will. These guys are professional athletes, they'll get over it.
Don't they still keep track of touchdown passes, interceptions and completion percentage?
Isn't Jones criticized for his deficiencies in those stats?
Very weak.
It's crazy to me. I don't think there are any examples in the modern NFL of a guy figuring out in year 6. When I read phrases like "rocky start", I have to pause because at this point Jones is a seasoned veteran not a early career qb.
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Schwartz had a pathetic article yesterday about how Jones would be upset and uncomfortable if we took a QB high. I couldn’t help but roll my eyes. People need to stop coddling him like he’s an infant.
He's not had a single day of competition for his job since they put him in his rookie year. Everyone else who can say that is probably getting consideration for All Pro most years.
If he would be upset and uncomfortable having to compete for his job given his performance, I think we can cross "competitor" off the list of intangibles the guy has.
Outstanding post!
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Seriously? We still have people comparing the Simms NFL era to 2024?
Don't they still keep track of touchdown passes, interceptions and completion percentage?
Isn't Jones criticized for his deficiencies in those stats?
Very weak.
Comparing the pre-salary cap, pree-free agency NFL to today's NFL is like comparing the SuperBowl to the Puppy Bowl.
This is just silly.
Maybe in a fantasy world, he passes a physical and waives his injury guarantees and they are able to pick up a 6th or 7th for him by eating his entire contract (so saving no money) but the other team would get him for the minimum and the Giants would get something.
In comment 16482806 Eric from BBI said:
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In comment 16483014 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Seriously? We still have people comparing the Simms NFL era to 2024?
Don't they still keep track of touchdown passes, interceptions and completion percentage?
Isn't Jones criticized for his deficiencies in those stats?
Very weak.
Comparing the pre-salary cap, pree-free agency NFL to today's NFL is like comparing the SuperBowl to the Puppy Bowl.
This is just silly.
The league was very different in 1984 when there were only nine players on offense and centers were eligible receivers.
The booed Mantle too until Maris joined the team.
No, not saying that Jones is as good as Mantle. You get the point. Just saying that fans can be impatient.
But in this case if Jones isn't sunk by his play he will likely be a victim of his injuries.
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In comment 16483118 Reese's Pieces said:
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In comment 16483014 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Seriously? We still have people comparing the Simms NFL era to 2024?
Don't they still keep track of touchdown passes, interceptions and completion percentage?
Isn't Jones criticized for his deficiencies in those stats?
Very weak.
Comparing the pre-salary cap, pree-free agency NFL to today's NFL is like comparing the SuperBowl to the Puppy Bowl.
This is just silly.
The league was very different in 1984 when there were only nine players on offense and centers were eligible receivers.
The booed Mantle too until Maris joined the team.
No, not saying that Jones is as good as Mantle. You get the point. Just saying that fans can be impatient.
But in this case if Jones isn't sunk by his play he will likely be a victim of his injuries.
The league rules are also completely different today than they were in 1984. This is a league that is built for downfield passing, in the mid 80s it was built for running. It's even a different league than it was when Eli was drafted in 2004.
I very much understand the patience take if Jones were going into year 3. He's going into year 6, he's a seasoned veteran.
If we even say the modern NFL started in 2004 with the Rivers, Eli, Ben class (I would argue it was basically around 2010 we saw the full shift to the passing game), can you point to a qb who ascended top level passer in year 6?
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In comment 16483141 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 16483118 Reese's Pieces said:
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In comment 16483014 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Seriously? We still have people comparing the Simms NFL era to 2024?
Don't they still keep track of touchdown passes, interceptions and completion percentage?
Isn't Jones criticized for his deficiencies in those stats?
Very weak.
Comparing the pre-salary cap, pree-free agency NFL to today's NFL is like comparing the SuperBowl to the Puppy Bowl.
This is just silly.
The league was very different in 1984 when there were only nine players on offense and centers were eligible receivers.
The booed Mantle too until Maris joined the team.
No, not saying that Jones is as good as Mantle. You get the point. Just saying that fans can be impatient.
But in this case if Jones isn't sunk by his play he will likely be a victim of his injuries.
The league rules are also completely different today than they were in 1984. This is a league that is built for downfield passing, in the mid 80s it was built for running. It's even a different league than it was when Eli was drafted in 2004.
I very much understand the patience take if Jones were going into year 3. He's going into year 6, he's a seasoned veteran.
If we even say the modern NFL started in 2004 with the Rivers, Eli, Ben class (I would argue it was basically around 2010 we saw the full shift to the passing game), can you point to a qb who ascended top level passer in year 6?
I think they are expecting Geno Smith, which is still not worth what the Giants are paying Jones. The jury is still out on someone like Baker Mayfield who has not had any consistency whatsoever in his career and I am, frankly, surprised he got a multiyear deal.
But if they give up next year's #1 and miss with the quarterback, management (and fans) are in worse condition than if they don't draft a quarterback at all this year.
They would like to stay at six and draft a quarterback. And history, at least according to some guy who posted maybe six or eight weeks ago and did the math, says that a QB picked with the first pick in the first round has a substantially better chance to be the best, but after that the stats, according to this guy, show that the success of the next four QBs taken isn't tied to draft position.
That's pretty reasonable considering all the Round 1 busts we see and as well as cases where a 2nd half Round 1 QB is better than most 1st half Round 1 QBs. It would be easy to do the math once you decided on how you would judge how successful a quarterback had been.
Gil Brandt said that one of the top tests that he used to separate the top prospects was work ethic, and college and even high school coaches were the best source for that.
Simms won the first five starts of his rookie year in 1979;he was 6–4 as a starter, threw for 1,743 yards and 13 touchdown passes, and was named to the NFL All-Rookie Team.
Simms' next four years were marred by injuries and inconsistent play. He finished the 1980 season with 15 touchdowns and 19 interceptions, while completing a subpar 48.0% of his passes for 2,321 yards. In 1981, Simms threw for 2,031 yards, 11 touchdowns, and 9 interceptions on 54.4% completion percentage before suffering a separated shoulder in a November 15 loss to the Washington Redskins.
With Simms out, the Giants went on a run led by Scott Brunner and advanced to the second round of the playoffs.
One of Parcells' first decisions as coach was to replace Simms as the starting quarterback with Brunner.[17] Simms asked to be traded after the benching, but his request was ignored.
During his first few years on the team, Giants fans were merciless in their treatment of Simms, who they felt was a disappointment. He commented that his wife "had to sit up in the stands and listen to them cuss me.
Not saying that Jones is as good as Simms, but Simms came very close to losing his career and I was one of the ones booing.
I also go back to Simms, and you are 100% correct. Some fans think they have all the answers and those running the team should heed them. They're hanging on to every silly rumor that may indicate a QB draft that will replace DJ. IMO, the Giants are, at least for this year, committed to him. If he has a good year? There will be no replacement, no earth-shaking trade up. Now, if one of the top 3 falls to them, we'll see. Get this, management likes DJ and is willing to give him every opportunity to succeed. That's what I get from numerous statements by GM and coach. Some here say they're lying as draft deception, maybe so, I think not, this has been the message for quite a while.
They pretend that 2022 never happened. And that line gave up only 49 sacks. Eli was sacked more than 40 times only one season, and the team went 5-11.
But there are good reasons to believe that he won't reclaim the job. The injuries. No room for any more next season.
And he won't have Barkley, and as some have pointed out, that option play where Jones handed it off to Barkley left or kept it and went right was a big play in 2022. Also he appeared to favor pulling the ball down and taking off when the rush got near him, instead of hanging in the pocket and getting off a good throw before he was hit.
Anyway, more than enough of this. I think for a lot of NFL fans the draft is as entertaining as the games.
My personal fun draft fact. In 1986 the Giants had four 2nd round picks plus their 1st and 3rd and all six picks were defense. They picked up Mark Collins, Erik Howard and Pepper Johnson.
Then Young went offense in the first round for the next nine years. (Actually I don't remember Young's last year)
Ingram WE
Moore OT(Jumbo Elliott in 2nd round)
Williams C
Hampton RB
Bunch FB (ouch)
Brown, Derek TE
Brown, Dave QB* Supplemental Draft, 1st Round
Lewis WR
Wheatley RB
George Young was killing me here. A team built around the defense and he picked only offense first
And SEVEN offensive skill positions
He clearly was not good picking these players.