Giants and Minny are 100% ready to pay a big price for Maye. Pats clearly lukewarm on Maye because if they had the franchise grade on him they wouldn't be 'open for business'. Pats are NOT taking Maye at 3 that is smoke.
Owner likes JJ a lot but they don't have some monster grade on him to outright take him at 3 like they do Daniels or Williams. Refer to their front office quote of having to be in 'absolute love' with a QB to take him at 3.
Pats know very well both Giants and Minny two teams with significant enough draft capital to make the move have Maye with a franchise grade. Maye is a QB in many 'normal' drafts that would be QB1 and worthy of the first overall pick. Pats supposedly expect an offer worthy of getting QB1 to move back.
Giants and Minny know getting to 3 is the 'checkmate' move of all moves to get their new face of the franchise and future of the organization.
Giants seem to have upper hand because it comes down to satisfying what the team you are trading with wants most while outbidding the other team. Pats want the right kind of picks AND a sure fire way to get McCarthy. Minny's is 100% all in on trying to get Maye so this will inevitably drive up the cost. I don't know parameters for sure as that was never discussed, but from the sense of it and other reports Minny at minimum ready to part with 11/23 and a 2025 1st round pick .
Cards are NYG's potential ace in the hole. Cards clearly want to leave this draft with the blue-chip pass catcher who likely won't have a long learning curve. That guy won't be available much past 6. Cards however also waived the big 'open for sale' sign at the outset of the league meetings so we know they are ready to move for the right cost too.
This is where some machination of one big trade or a succession of trades would transpire where Giants get 3, Pats get 4 and Cards get 6.
The main competing offer from the sound of it was Minny getting the Chargers with a new regime and somewhat cash strapped & stripped down roster agreeing to move down. I'm guessing here but would assume the main framework would be for their 11 & 23. This gives Harbaugh two first round stabs in a top heavy and deep draft to get two high-level starters to accelerate the rebuild around Herbert. I would imagine once Minny got to 5 they would offer the 2025 1st to get Pats to swap from 3 to 5.
How do those offers compare? It quite possibly comes down to what could happen at 4 if Kraft does deal with Minny and if Kraft values our 2025 #1 or theirs higher.
As mentioned earlier, Cards don't want a big move down so that eliminates a bunch of teams from having the ability to get to 4 for McCarthy.
Giants who like Maye more but apparently like McCarthy right under him have the ability to change the calculus. They easily could and would swoop in at 4 and take McCarthy at a much lower cost than Maye at 3.
Giants want the new face of franchise QB. Eisen's proclamation of Giants moving on from DJ sounds very true and that is quite clear at this point. Getting the QB is not an easy thing to do. Only a few human beings in this world have the ability to play quarterback in the NFL at a high level.
If Kraft truly wants McCarthy, Giants deal may be the only way to go and why it sounds like we have the upper hand to make this deal.
Bottomline, Giants get their future QB with a franchise grade, Kraft gets McCarthy , Wolf gets his picks, and Cards get their blue chip pass catcher
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Rickey
@prettyrickey213
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12m
Despite offers from other teams, I'm still hearing that the Patriots are going to stay at 3 and take their QB. Expect Drake Maye to be the pick.
I don't buy it.
Me neither. Kraft wants JJM and Wolf wants to trade down for some extra picks. If Maye were their guy, then there wouldn't be so much noise about dealing out of the 3rd pick.
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Rickey
@prettyrickey213
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2m
JJ is definitely still in play for the Pats but I think they prefer Maye. Hope I'm wrong. Giants will need to outbid Vikings and Broncos for Maye if he slides to 4.
Eric, so I’m guessing what Rickey said on BBI earlier in the week that the Giants don’t like Maye and even if he’s at 6 they’d look to trade back was just a total smokescreen?
I never saw him say that.
I don't even know if Rickey is a con-man who had one piece of intel and is milking it.
Let's hope a shitty method yields a good player.
@prettyrickey213
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12m
Despite offers from other teams, I'm still hearing that the Patriots are going to stay at 3 and take their QB. Expect Drake Maye to be the pick.
Talent wise, Maye makes sense.
But I think intangibles will be the reason Kraft leans hard on Wolf to go back to the well and take another Wolverine.
They are going to need a Tony Robbins-type personality to deal with an offense that is one of the worst in the NFL in terms of personnel. JMac spews that...
They could trade back to 5 and then back up to 4 with AZ.
Vikings get Maye
Pats get McCarthy plus picks
AZ gets WR1 plus picks
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Rickey
@prettyrickey213
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12m
Despite offers from other teams, I'm still hearing that the Patriots are going to stay at 3 and take their QB. Expect Drake Maye to be the pick.
I’ve said this a 1000 times, this makes the most sense. I have a very hard time believing a team that needs a QB more than anyone trades out of this spot…whether it’s Maye or JJ. (Unless that 3way trade is actually real)
Agreed. The first rule of drafting is that if you need a QB, and can take one at your slot in the first round, that you do so, and ignore all trade down offers.
No hard info here just postulating
Can Pats convince Giants or Minny they'd take Maye at 3? I don't think so.
Do Minny and Giants reverse course (from what I heard) call Pats bluff and not offer them anything?
Problem is Minny might have edge for Cards pick since they can get 5 from Chargers with 11 & 23. Would Cards go to 6 and risk one of MHJ/Nabers/Odunze being gone? Depends on how close the grades are for 2 of the 3, I guess and how much they value Giants or Minny's offer in picks more than the other.
As best as I can tell, Giants may still need to deal with Pats to have the edge for Maye.
This all reeks of desperation by the Giants and Vikings. Schoen and his counterpart at Minnesota appear to be making moves to try and keep their jobs instead of what is in the best interest of their teams.
Welcome to QB hell. Obviously a WR is the most sure thing and a major need. Unless one of the QBs fall to 6.
Be honest, don’t look at it from a fan perspective for a minute and look at it from a job/career. If you were Joe Schoen, you’re fighting for your job. If you really mess this up, most likely he’ll lose his job here in the next few years. And if he messes up that badly, might never have a chance to be a GM ever again. Wouldn’t you be desperate? Wouldn’t you find the best way to keep your job?
Again, stop looking at it from a fan perspective. Schoen isn’t a Giants fan, this is his livelihood. He absolutely will do whatever it takes to keep his job but also make the Giants better since he’s tied to that as well.
In the end the only way all this works out for the Giants is if the Patriots are stupid!
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Draft intel
Jayden is the pick at 2
Patriots will be taking Maye or JJ (sounds like Maye and can only see them moving if they could guarantee they get one of them)
Chiefs taking LT in R1
AD Mitchell has been removed from many team's boards
Cowboys going RB in R2
As an aside, I wonder why AD Mitchell is off team's boards. I really like him mid to late first round.
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Rickey
@prettyrickey213
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2m
JJ is definitely still in play for the Pats but I think they prefer Maye. Hope I'm wrong. Giants will need to outbid Vikings and Broncos for Maye if he slides to 4.
Eric, so I’m guessing what Rickey said on BBI earlier in the week that the Giants don’t like Maye and even if he’s at 6 they’d look to trade back was just a total smokescreen?
I think you're thinking of someone else. Rickey has been consistent in saying that he thinks the Giants love Maye
What might be new is the Chargers perhaps trading with the Vikings. In that situation, the Patriots would have to be guaranteed to be able to trade with Arizona in order to get JJM.
This all reeks of desperation by the Giants and Vikings. Schoen and his counterpart at Minnesota appear to be making moves to try and keep their jobs instead of what is in the best interest of their teams.
I'm not sure any GM would take the tack of "this move probably means I get fired but at least the next guy will be set up"
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In comment 16483097 Eric from BBI said:
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Rickey
@prettyrickey213
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2m
JJ is definitely still in play for the Pats but I think they prefer Maye. Hope I'm wrong. Giants will need to outbid Vikings and Broncos for Maye if he slides to 4.
Eric, so I’m guessing what Rickey said on BBI earlier in the week that the Giants don’t like Maye and even if he’s at 6 they’d look to trade back was just a total smokescreen?
I never saw him say that.
I don't even know if Rickey is a con-man who had one piece of intel and is milking it.
Lol are you messing with me? He made an account here and posted either late last week or early this week. You posted several times in the exchange. I also wrote to you too. Of course I searched and he deleted his account and I can’t find the thread so it was probably deleted.
But to paraphrase he said he was told what he could say and what he couldn’t say at the time of his post. He said the Giants were out on Maye, even if he fell to 6 that they’d look to trade back. And one of your replies were “wink wink ;) ;)”
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In comment 16483097 Eric from BBI said:
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Rickey
@prettyrickey213
·
2m
JJ is definitely still in play for the Pats but I think they prefer Maye. Hope I'm wrong. Giants will need to outbid Vikings and Broncos for Maye if he slides to 4.
Eric, so I’m guessing what Rickey said on BBI earlier in the week that the Giants don’t like Maye and even if he’s at 6 they’d look to trade back was just a total smokescreen?
I think you're thinking of someone else. Rickey has been consistent in saying that he thinks the Giants love Maye
GoDeep is saying the Giants love McCarthy and that Maye love is a total smoke screen and wouldn't even take him if there at 6.
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but they're going to pick Daniels or JJ.
And that's the one (potential) path to Maye where we may be able to retain our 2025 #1.
Correct!
In Bob McGinn's draft profile of him on the GoDeep site there was a quote from an anonymous scout about Mitchell's diabetes' being an issue for some teams. The summary is that he apparently got moody when his blood sugar was out of whack in college and that any team taking him would need to basically hand hold him to make sure he was managing his diabetes.
No, the idea is that NE would take him at 4. Giants get NE’s 3rd, NE gets AZ’s 4th, and AZ gets Giants 6th. NE can’t risk staying at 6 if Minny is intent on moving to 5 to take JJM.
The key to any trade is how comfortable would AZ be dropping. If they really want one of the big 3 WR’s, they can’t afford to move down to 13 (or 12 if they deal with DEN). The other complication is Minny making a deal early with LAC, then shopping the #5 pick to AZ.
This will be fascinating to watch.
Let's say Minny then offers their 2025 1st to go from 5 to 4.
Would Giants offer for Cards to go to 6 be better than Minny's offer for 5 and potentially their 2025 1st?
Let's say Minny then offers their 2025 1st to go from 5 to 4.
Would Giants offer for Cards to go to 6 be better than Minny's offer for 5 and potentially their 2025 1st?
If you think Maye is worth a 2025 first to get to 3, he's worth it to get to 4 or 5. That would be silly to back off at that point because you are only jumping a pick. They'd be trading for Maye.
Yes, my bad. I just found the post. lol.
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In comment 16483097 Eric from BBI said:
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Rickey
@prettyrickey213
·
2m
JJ is definitely still in play for the Pats but I think they prefer Maye. Hope I'm wrong. Giants will need to outbid Vikings and Broncos for Maye if he slides to 4.
Eric, so I’m guessing what Rickey said on BBI earlier in the week that the Giants don’t like Maye and even if he’s at 6 they’d look to trade back was just a total smokescreen?
I think you're thinking of someone else. Rickey has been consistent in saying that he thinks the Giants love Maye
You’re right. My bad, it was GoDeep
A very real possibility: 3) Maye to Vikings; 4) MHJ to Cards; 5) JJM to NE.
We need to be working the phones like crazy to have a deal in place with Cards so we can tell NE that if they trade down to 5 JJM won't be there for them.
Let's say Minny then offers their 2025 1st to go from 5 to 4.
Would Giants offer for Cards to go to 6 be better than Minny's offer for 5 and potentially their 2025 1st?
In that scenario Giants would have to offer more and convince Cards that if Maye is gone for Vikings at 5, they aren't going MHJ so he'd still be there for Cards if they traded to 6.
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It get's even more interesting. My impression is Chargers @5 may like Minny's offer more than any offer than Giants can give them. So Minny gets to 5 as Giants are boxed out..
Let's say Minny then offers their 2025 1st to go from 5 to 4.
Would Giants offer for Cards to go to 6 be better than Minny's offer for 5 and potentially their 2025 1st?
If you think Maye is worth a 2025 first to get to 3, he's worth it to get to 4 or 5. That would be silly to back off at that point because you are only jumping a pick. They'd be trading for Maye.
Correct. So does NYG offer of 2025 1st and 2024 #6 beat out MIN offer of 2025 1st and 2024 #5?
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In comment 16483263 Stars_and_stripes said:
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It get's even more interesting. My impression is Chargers @5 may like Minny's offer more than any offer than Giants can give them. So Minny gets to 5 as Giants are boxed out..
Let's say Minny then offers their 2025 1st to go from 5 to 4.
Would Giants offer for Cards to go to 6 be better than Minny's offer for 5 and potentially their 2025 1st?
If you think Maye is worth a 2025 first to get to 3, he's worth it to get to 4 or 5. That would be silly to back off at that point because you are only jumping a pick. They'd be trading for Maye.
Correct. So does NYG offer of 2025 1st and 2024 #6 beat out MIN offer of 2025 1st and 2024 #5?
We'd probably need to throw in another pick or pick swap to sweeten the deal.
@RobiWittmore
And please, let’s put this to bed, the #Giants top rated QB is Drake Maye. It’s been that way for months and it’s been what I’ve reported for months. If #Maye makes it past pick 2 expect the Giants to be as aggressive as possible on a trade up—I’m hearing 3 firsts aggressive.
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Robinson L. Wittmore
@RobiWittmore
And please, let’s put this to bed, the #Giants top rated QB is Drake Maye. It’s been that way for months and it’s been what I’ve reported for months. If #Maye makes it past pick 2 expect the Giants to be as aggressive as possible on a trade up—I’m hearing 3 firsts aggressive.
So that would be #6, and our #1 in 2025 and 2026? That would be ridiculous and idiotic.
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In comment 16483265 Sean said:
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In comment 16483263 Stars_and_stripes said:
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It get's even more interesting. My impression is Chargers @5 may like Minny's offer more than any offer than Giants can give them. So Minny gets to 5 as Giants are boxed out..
Let's say Minny then offers their 2025 1st to go from 5 to 4.
Would Giants offer for Cards to go to 6 be better than Minny's offer for 5 and potentially their 2025 1st?
If you think Maye is worth a 2025 first to get to 3, he's worth it to get to 4 or 5. That would be silly to back off at that point because you are only jumping a pick. They'd be trading for Maye.
Correct. So does NYG offer of 2025 1st and 2024 #6 beat out MIN offer of 2025 1st and 2024 #5?
We'd probably need to throw in another pick or pick swap to sweeten the deal.
Minny doesn't have a #2 next year in 2025, they also have no 2024 #2 or #3. It would cost them 11 and 23 to get to #5. There is a limit on how high they can go. They can offer a 2025 1st on a double trade up but it wears thin after that. Now if Jefferson was thrown in that could be a different story.
jj looks like the pick he would take.
the brady factor still resonates in the building.
would also bet they think he can get up to speed faster than maye (whom i would rank 2nd behind caleb) and bob's clock like all of us is ticking. he's not on a six year rebuild plan. although i know nothing just chiming in.
I expect the same result. Then the why didn't we offer more rants will begin:
"That's all it took to trade up, we could have easily topped that offer" lol
This is what I'm expecting as well.
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In comment 16483101 Eric from BBI said:
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Rickey
@prettyrickey213
·
12m
Despite offers from other teams, I'm still hearing that the Patriots are going to stay at 3 and take their QB. Expect Drake Maye to be the pick.
I don't buy it.
Me neither. We seem to have moved beyond that phase and into the saying things to create last minute leverage phase of negotiations.
+1
I don't think Rickey has any legit sources for draft stuff if he is indeed tied to an agency.
They could trade back to 5 and then back up to 4 with AZ.
Vikings get Maye
Pats get McCarthy plus picks
AZ gets WR1 plus picks
AZ would then negotiate with us for pick 4, leaves a lot up to chance if they really want JJM.
No hard info here just postulating
Can Pats convince Giants or Minny they'd take Maye at 3? I don't think so.
Do Minny and Giants reverse course (from what I heard) call Pats bluff and not offer them anything?
Problem is Minny might have edge for Cards pick since they can get 5 from Chargers with 11 & 23. Would Cards go to 6 and risk one of MHJ/Nabers/Odunze being gone? Depends on how close the grades are for 2 of the 3, I guess and how much they value Giants or Minny's offer in picks more than the other.
As best as I can tell, Giants may still need to deal with Pats to have the edge for Maye.
The Chargers odds to take a QB going from 1000-1 to 6-1 certainly smell like the Herbert to Vikings rumor could be true as a backup option if Vikings don't get Maye. That obviously wouldn't happen until LAC got the QB they wanted (JJM presumably). If this 3 team trade gets done, then I can't see LAC trading Herbs and Minnesota would pivot to Penix at 11 which might be the best move for them in the end.
I don't think Ej Manuel knows anything. He's just one of the many former nfl QBs that couldn't even cut it as a backup.
Let's hope a shitty method yields a good player.
I think the term "face of the franchise" has really just come to mean "franchise quarterback".
What good quarterback isn't considered the "face of the franchise"?
We get iced out and are forced to roll with Jones/Lock in 2024 and finish last in the East, I think Schoen and Daboll get canned.
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No hard info here just postulating
Can Pats convince Giants or Minny they'd take Maye at 3? I don't think so.
Do Minny and Giants reverse course (from what I heard) call Pats bluff and not offer them anything?
Problem is Minny might have edge for Cards pick since they can get 5 from Chargers with 11 & 23. Would Cards go to 6 and risk one of MHJ/Nabers/Odunze being gone? Depends on how close the grades are for 2 of the 3, I guess and how much they value Giants or Minny's offer in picks more than the other.
As best as I can tell, Giants may still need to deal with Pats to have the edge for Maye.
The Chargers odds to take a QB going from 1000-1 to 6-1 certainly smell like the Herbert to Vikings rumor could be true as a backup option if Vikings don't get Maye. That obviously wouldn't happen until LAC got the QB they wanted (JJM presumably). If this 3 team trade gets done, then I can't see LAC trading Herbs and Minnesota would pivot to Penix at 11 which might be the best move for them in the end.
Is it Chargers odds specifically or QB picked @ 5 (any team)
Possible? Yes
Likely? No
but I'm I have hope!