The New York Giants aren’t leaving the draft without a QB and everything points to them taking one tomorrow. Sure sounds like Joe Schoen is getting in position to pick a QB tomorrow night #NYGiants
Somewhat of a change.
Rico : 9:43 pm : link : reply
It sounds like we have some deal in place with Arizona to move up to 4. At first it was only for Maye or Daniels, but today my source mentioned JJ as a possibility.
Two years ago it seemed like Thibs was off our board, but then my source said he was on our board in the final 24 hours before the draft. This may be a similar situation
WOW - sounds like it's anybody but DJ now - 4th QB.
Yes, or possibly step one to get to 3 (I hope not but who am I to be critical of them if they have conviction). I'd just take Maye or JJM at 4 myself. That's what I've been saying for months.
Somewhat of a change.
Rico : 9:43 pm : link : reply
It sounds like we have some deal in place with Arizona to move up to 4. At first it was only for Maye or Daniels, but today my source mentioned JJ as a possibility.
Two years ago it seemed like Thibs was off our board, but then my source said he was on our board in the final 24 hours before the draft. This may be a similar situation
In all fairness, JJ being a "possibility" is pretty vague. That certainly doesn't convince me the Giants have a deal in place with the Cardinals to move up to #4 if he's still on the board at that pick.
Where we sit tight and end up taking the #2 WR off the board, which in any other year, would be a great thing…and yes, I realize that may end up how it goes if 1-5 doesn’t play out like we hope…
Somewhat of a change.
Rico : 9:43 pm : link : reply
It sounds like we have some deal in place with Arizona to move up to 4. At first it was only for Maye or Daniels, but today my source mentioned JJ as a possibility.
Two years ago it seemed like Thibs was off our board, but then my source said he was on our board in the final 24 hours before the draft. This may be a similar situation
In all fairness, JJ being a "possibility" is pretty vague. That certainly doesn't convince me the Giants have a deal in place with the Cardinals to move up to #4 if he's still on the board at that pick.
True, but the way I read it is JJM as a possibility (if Maye is gone). Not that they would maybe do it for JJM, I read it as we have a deal in place with AZ for Maye, JD or JJM. You could be right, but I don't see Rico even mentioning JJM if it was maybe for JJM definitely for JD or Maye.
would prefer to take either Maye or JJM at #6 over anyone else, but a second is the absolute most I would give up (Sy said he wouldn't give up more than our third) to move up for either. They both have some pretty substantial holes and everyone agrees as a consequence they need to sit for a year.
Eli sat for a half a year. Mahomes sat for just about a full year. I think they turned out pretty well. This team is up shit's creek until they get a QB.
Somewhat of a change.
Rico : 9:43 pm : link : reply
It sounds like we have some deal in place with Arizona to move up to 4. At first it was only for Maye or Daniels, but today my source mentioned JJ as a possibility.
Two years ago it seemed like Thibs was off our board, but then my source said he was on our board in the final 24 hours before the draft. This may be a similar situation
In all fairness, JJ being a "possibility" is pretty vague. That certainly doesn't convince me the Giants have a deal in place with the Cardinals to move up to #4 if he's still on the board at that pick.
True, but the way I read it is JJM as a possibility (if Maye is gone). Not that they would maybe do it for JJM, I read it as we have a deal in place with AZ for Maye, JD or JJM. You could be right, but I don't see Rico even mentioning JJM if it was maybe for JJM definitely for JD or Maye.
The word "possibility" creates uncertainty for me about whether a deal is in place for JJM.
If you include Nix - should sit if the giants get them. Maybe a few games but real live action is the only way they get better.
Penix inability to scramble, throw on the run, and throw under pressure in college shows he has the highest learning curve and will need better pieces surrounding him than what we can provide.
Somewhat of a change.
Rico : 9:43 pm : link : reply
It sounds like we have some deal in place with Arizona to move up to 4. At first it was only for Maye or Daniels, but today my source mentioned JJ as a possibility.
Two years ago it seemed like Thibs was off our board, but then my source said he was on our board in the final 24 hours before the draft. This may be a similar situation
In all fairness, JJ being a "possibility" is pretty vague. That certainly doesn't convince me the Giants have a deal in place with the Cardinals to move up to #4 if he's still on the board at that pick.
True, but the way I read it is JJM as a possibility (if Maye is gone). Not that they would maybe do it for JJM, I read it as we have a deal in place with AZ for Maye, JD or JJM. You could be right, but I don't see Rico even mentioning JJM if it was maybe for JJM definitely for JD or Maye.
The word "possibility" creates uncertainty for me about whether a deal is in place for JJM.
Yeah, it go either way as in maybe/uncertain for JJM or as JJM being a possibility along with Maye and JD.
Somewhat of a change.
Rico : 9:43 pm : link : reply
It sounds like we have some deal in place with Arizona to move up to 4. At first it was only for Maye or Daniels, but today my source mentioned JJ as a possibility.
Two years ago it seemed like Thibs was off our board, but then my source said he was on our board in the final 24 hours before the draft. This may be a similar situation
In all fairness, JJ being a "possibility" is pretty vague. That certainly doesn't convince me the Giants have a deal in place with the Cardinals to move up to #4 if he's still on the board at that pick.
True, but the way I read it is JJM as a possibility (if Maye is gone). Not that they would maybe do it for JJM, I read it as we have a deal in place with AZ for Maye, JD or JJM. You could be right, but I don't see Rico even mentioning JJM if it was maybe for JJM definitely for JD or Maye.
The word "possibility" creates uncertainty for me about whether a deal is in place for JJM.
Yeah, it go either way as in maybe/uncertain for JJM or as JJM being a possibility along with Maye and JD.
Somewhat of a change.
Rico : 9:43 pm : link : reply
It sounds like we have some deal in place with Arizona to move up to 4. At first it was only for Maye or Daniels, but today my source mentioned JJ as a possibility.
Two years ago it seemed like Thibs was off our board, but then my source said he was on our board in the final 24 hours before the draft. This may be a similar situation
What thread is this in?
Would you make this trade for JJM?
I would. I like Maye more but I think JJM is going to be at worst above average
Somewhat of a change.
Rico : 9:43 pm : link : reply
It sounds like we have some deal in place with Arizona to move up to 4. At first it was only for Maye or Daniels, but today my source mentioned JJ as a possibility.
Two years ago it seemed like Thibs was off our board, but then my source said he was on our board in the final 24 hours before the draft. This may be a similar situation
What thread is this in?
Would you make this trade for JJM?
I would. I like Maye more but I think JJM is going to be at worst above average
And Pats are trying to get Giants to give up more. Giants are not budging as they know their offer is more than fair.
In the end I doubt Pats will bite their nose to spite their face, McCarthy is the guy they want. Everybody gets what they want with no team being excessively ripped off.
-Pats get 4 and select McCarthy at a better spot while they get fair (not a rip off) type compensation
-Giants get 3 and get their highest graded target in Maye (though McCarthy is closely graded)
- Cards get 6 and get the blue chip pass catcher
RE: If I had to guess, Giants made a very fair offer for #3
And Pats are trying to get Giants to give up more. Giants are not budging as they know their offer is more than fair.
In the end I doubt Pats will bite their nose to spite their face, McCarthy is the guy they want. Everybody gets what they want with no team being excessively ripped off.
-Pats get 4 and select McCarthy at a better spot while they get fair (not a rip off) type compensation
-Giants get 3 and get their highest graded target in Maye (though McCarthy is closely graded)
- Cards get 6 and get the blue chip pass catcher
Either that or Schoen just calls their bluff with a deal in place to get to 4 knowing he's fine with JJM or Maye for the reasonable trade cost. Then NE takes Kraft's guy in JJM at 3 looking like the interim year 1 GM Wolf is.
But imo all the "everything points to giants taking a QB" talk is bs. I think the g8ants would love for everyone to believe that though, because the more teams trade in front of them to draft a QB the more chance their favorite player will be there. Is it Nabers, Harrison, Odunze is the question for me.
RE: RE: If I had to guess, Giants made a very fair offer for #3
And Pats are trying to get Giants to give up more. Giants are not budging as they know their offer is more than fair.
In the end I doubt Pats will bite their nose to spite their face, McCarthy is the guy they want. Everybody gets what they want with no team being excessively ripped off.
-Pats get 4 and select McCarthy at a better spot while they get fair (not a rip off) type compensation
-Giants get 3 and get their highest graded target in Maye (though McCarthy is closely graded)
- Cards get 6 and get the blue chip pass catcher
Either that or Schoen just calls their bluff with a deal in place to get to 4 knowing he's fine with JJM or Maye for the reasonable trade cost. Then NE takes Kraft's guy in JJM at 3 looking like the interim year 1 GM Wolf is.
Is his only leverage McCarthy or can he get San Diego involved? Without San Diego I agree he certainly has less leverage. Maybe one of these moving parts shifted and he doesn't have San Diego anor Minnesota ready to give up the mother load anymore.
All things considered (including injury risk), JJM has the highest floor of any QB in this draft. Fight me.
It is not the "4th best". It is the presumed 4th-taken.
Did Brandon Beane select the 3rd best QB in 2018 in Josh Allen, behind Mayfield and Darnold? And if you looked at most of the mocks and draft community, you would've said at the time he was the 4th best, behind Josh Rosen, too.
And I can't believe Brett Veach risked his legacy on Patrick Mahomes at 10th overall. Clearly they should've moved heaven and earth to move up ahead of the Bears to take Mitchell Trubisky #1 overall.
Hell, there's a non-zero chance that Spencer Rattler becomes the best NFL quarterback in this class.
Take the guy you have a conviction on. I really like JJM. I think he's going to be a really good QB, with potential to be a top 5 NFL QB. And any of the top 6 guys have a somewhat of a real chance at that. I truly believe JJM will be successful in the NFL. How successful is the big question, but I think he has what it takes to reach his potential. Let's hope that potential is a multi-championship winning franchise QB.
There are six very talented, very accomplished QB prospects in this draft. They have varying skillsets.
This group will probably have a success story or two, and probably a flop or two. Predicting who will be what is something the NFL has repeatedly shown itself to be terrible at.
The way the NFL approaches the QB position is deeply flawed from the scouting process all the way through to the pro QB evaluation process. So much is a function of luck that best thing an organization can do is take as many swings at solving it as they can.
One of the biggest myths of the entire draft. To give the short version, not all teams have a position like QB ranked in the same order.
As more broken out stats posted the other day demonstrated, JJ McCarthy was one of the best of the top 6 QB’s when facing pressure. Bo Nix and Jayden Daniels also ranked highly in those areas. Jayden Daniels nobody expects to be there so not worth discussing, but with Nix his ADOT was greater than 33% lower than McCarthy’s which could skew data as any QB this high will have their highest completion percentage behind the LOS followed by 0-9 yards. Despite not throwing for a lot of yards or TD’s, McCarthy has by far the highest percentage of 3rd and 7+ attempts going for first downs of all of the top 6 QB’s. His completion percentage in those situations is on par with Nix and Daniels in that situation which tells me that he is looking to extend drives and not just dumping it off and praying. Additionally, at 8% for McCarthy and 11% for Daniels these two have the lowest screen pass % of the top 6 QB’s. Nix is at a whopping 22%. That is not to say that McCarthy is guaranteed to have success in the NFL, but analytics based teams might rank him higher.
Second, teams generally do not operate with a numerical listing of players. Teams cluster players into tiers and try to get a player from the highest tier remaining.
Third, if you solely relied on ranking at a position you would see teams drafting K1 in Round 1 like you are Al Davis with Sebastian Janikowski. This gets back to my point above, if you are not taking someone from your top tier of remaining talent you are not getting the best players. If you look at The Huddle Report, they have at least 39 OL above the top K in this draft. Should a team bypass OL33 just to draft K1?
RE: schoen risking his legacy on the 4th best QB of the draft...
1. The Pats made it clear to Schoen over a month ago they wanted a QB.
2. The Pats owner loves JJM, anyone close to the organization heard this a dozen times. However this past week their draft board had JJM lower than expected.
3. The Pats let it be known yesterday they decided they are taking Maye.
4. So Schoen going to #4, let's the Pats know they can get JJM and some reasonable compensation. Or the Giants don't have any reservations taking JJM at that spot.
5. Schoen knows he has to get a QB this draft. This would reset his and Dabs timeline of working with the new QB. This move buys them 2 more years of getting the Giants on track.
RE: a few things here to unravel if there's a deal to move to 4
1. The Pats made it clear to Schoen over a month ago they wanted a QB.
2. The Pats owner loves JJM, anyone close to the organization heard this a dozen times. However this past week their draft board had JJM lower than expected.
3. The Pats let it be known yesterday they decided they are taking Maye.
4. So Schoen going to #4, let's the Pats know they can get JJM and some reasonable compensation. Or the Giants don't have any reservations taking JJM at that spot.
5. Schoen knows he has to get a QB this draft. This would reset his and Dabs timeline of working with the new QB. This move buys them 2 more years of getting the Giants on track.
This is most realistic timeline and thought toward NYG - NE dialog.
I will assume NYG likes Maye and McCarthy close to the same, if NYG can get to 4 they get a QB. If NE and NYG can come to reasonable compensation on a swap of 3 & 4 then Giants get Maye and NE gets McCarthy, and say pick 70.
If NE decides they still want JJ they take him at 3 and Giants get Maye.
Getting to pick 4 simplifies the decision making.
RE: a few things here to unravel if there's a deal to move to 4
1. The Pats made it clear to Schoen over a month ago they wanted a QB.
2. The Pats owner loves JJM, anyone close to the organization heard this a dozen times. However this past week their draft board had JJM lower than expected.
3. The Pats let it be known yesterday they decided they are taking Maye.
4. So Schoen going to #4, let's the Pats know they can get JJM and some reasonable compensation. Or the Giants don't have any reservations taking JJM at that spot.
5. Schoen knows he has to get a QB this draft. This would reset his and Dabs timeline of working with the new QB. This move buys them 2 more years of getting the Giants on track.
Regarding 5, I think it's just simply they desperately need a QB. Any guy they have a first round grade on they will try hard to get. Williams & Daniels are out of reach. That leaves Maye & McCarthy.
It's less about timelines and more about building THEIR team. Between QB and the Burns trade, it's time to build their way. It's year 3 already.
Broncos have no ammo and the Chargers are not dealing within their division.
-Giants have Cards deal on apparent lockdown
-Giants take McCarthy at @4 should Maye go 3
-Therefore, Kraft has to stick and pick McCarthy at 3 or lose McCarthy to G-Men at 4, Chargers pick becomes useless to Pats at that point if Vikes trade up.
There are six very talented, very accomplished QB prospects in this draft. They have varying skillsets.
This group will probably have a success story or two, and probably a flop or two. Predicting who will be what is something the NFL has repeatedly shown itself to be terrible at.
The way the NFL approaches the QB position is deeply flawed from the scouting process all the way through to the pro QB evaluation process. So much is a function of luck that best thing an organization can do is take as many swings at solving it as they can.
Really just a great summary of the reality of finding a QB. I was a person hoping DJ would pan out after 22, but 23 was a bucket of cold water on those hopes. We need to just keep taking shots until we find the right person. Fail fast until you get it right.
Broncos have no ammo and the Chargers are not dealing within their division.
-Giants have Cards deal on apparent lockdown
-Giants take McCarthy at @4 should Maye go 3
-Therefore, Kraft has to stick and pick McCarthy at 3 or lose McCarthy to G-Men at 4, Chargers pick becomes useless to Pats at that point if Vikes trade up.
I'm guessing LAC don't want to move down with the Vikings which boxes them out of weaseling up to 3 or 4. They would have to get to 5 first. AZ doesn't want to miss out on Nabers or MHJ. LAC presumably don't want to miss out on Nabers/MHJ/Alt, I think they want one of MHJ/Nabers too.
The only way we could make the trade with AZ before NE picks is if somehow NE gave AZ the guarantee that they aren't taking a WR. That happens in trades in the draft. If Schoen has a deal in place with AZ, then I presume the Vikings simply can't move into the top 5 so AZ has agreed to the preliminary deal with us. In that situation, I would just tell Wolf that we have a deal in place to get to 4 and we like both JJM and Maye so yall go ahead and pick your guy.
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In comment 16485005 BleedBlue46 said:
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Somewhat of a change.
Rico : 9:43 pm : link : reply
It sounds like we have some deal in place with Arizona to move up to 4. At first it was only for Maye or Daniels, but today my source mentioned JJ as a possibility.
Two years ago it seemed like Thibs was off our board, but then my source said he was on our board in the final 24 hours before the draft. This may be a similar situation
WOW - sounds like it's anybody but DJ now - 4th QB.
Yes, or possibly step one to get to 3 (I hope not but who am I to be critical of them if they have conviction). I'd just take Maye or JJM at 4 myself. That's what I've been saying for months.
Part 1 of a double trade-up methinks...
Rico : 9:43 pm : link : reply
It sounds like we have some deal in place with Arizona to move up to 4. At first it was only for Maye or Daniels, but today my source mentioned JJ as a possibility.
Two years ago it seemed like Thibs was off our board, but then my source said he was on our board in the final 24 hours before the draft. This may be a similar situation
In all fairness, JJ being a "possibility" is pretty vague. That certainly doesn't convince me the Giants have a deal in place with the Cardinals to move up to #4 if he's still on the board at that pick.
Agreed.
I'd only move up to #5 for Maye. But if Schoen wants to do it at 4, I can live with it. It'll cost us though. And pass on JJ.
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Somewhat of a change.
Rico : 9:43 pm : link : reply
It sounds like we have some deal in place with Arizona to move up to 4. At first it was only for Maye or Daniels, but today my source mentioned JJ as a possibility.
Two years ago it seemed like Thibs was off our board, but then my source said he was on our board in the final 24 hours before the draft. This may be a similar situation
In all fairness, JJ being a "possibility" is pretty vague. That certainly doesn't convince me the Giants have a deal in place with the Cardinals to move up to #4 if he's still on the board at that pick.
True, but the way I read it is JJM as a possibility (if Maye is gone). Not that they would maybe do it for JJM, I read it as we have a deal in place with AZ for Maye, JD or JJM. You could be right, but I don't see Rico even mentioning JJM if it was maybe for JJM definitely for JD or Maye.
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In comment 16485005 BleedBlue46 said:
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Somewhat of a change.
Rico : 9:43 pm : link : reply
It sounds like we have some deal in place with Arizona to move up to 4. At first it was only for Maye or Daniels, but today my source mentioned JJ as a possibility.
Two years ago it seemed like Thibs was off our board, but then my source said he was on our board in the final 24 hours before the draft. This may be a similar situation
In all fairness, JJ being a "possibility" is pretty vague. That certainly doesn't convince me the Giants have a deal in place with the Cardinals to move up to #4 if he's still on the board at that pick.
True, but the way I read it is JJM as a possibility (if Maye is gone). Not that they would maybe do it for JJM, I read it as we have a deal in place with AZ for Maye, JD or JJM. You could be right, but I don't see Rico even mentioning JJM if it was maybe for JJM definitely for JD or Maye.
The word "possibility" creates uncertainty for me about whether a deal is in place for JJM.
Penix inability to scramble, throw on the run, and throw under pressure in college shows he has the highest learning curve and will need better pieces surrounding him than what we can provide.
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In comment 16485053 AcidTest said:
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In comment 16485005 BleedBlue46 said:
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Somewhat of a change.
Rico : 9:43 pm : link : reply
It sounds like we have some deal in place with Arizona to move up to 4. At first it was only for Maye or Daniels, but today my source mentioned JJ as a possibility.
Two years ago it seemed like Thibs was off our board, but then my source said he was on our board in the final 24 hours before the draft. This may be a similar situation
In all fairness, JJ being a "possibility" is pretty vague. That certainly doesn't convince me the Giants have a deal in place with the Cardinals to move up to #4 if he's still on the board at that pick.
True, but the way I read it is JJM as a possibility (if Maye is gone). Not that they would maybe do it for JJM, I read it as we have a deal in place with AZ for Maye, JD or JJM. You could be right, but I don't see Rico even mentioning JJM if it was maybe for JJM definitely for JD or Maye.
The word "possibility" creates uncertainty for me about whether a deal is in place for JJM.
Yeah, it go either way as in maybe/uncertain for JJM or as JJM being a possibility along with Maye and JD.
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In comment 16485063 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16485053 AcidTest said:
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In comment 16485005 BleedBlue46 said:
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Somewhat of a change.
Rico : 9:43 pm : link : reply
It sounds like we have some deal in place with Arizona to move up to 4. At first it was only for Maye or Daniels, but today my source mentioned JJ as a possibility.
Two years ago it seemed like Thibs was off our board, but then my source said he was on our board in the final 24 hours before the draft. This may be a similar situation
In all fairness, JJ being a "possibility" is pretty vague. That certainly doesn't convince me the Giants have a deal in place with the Cardinals to move up to #4 if he's still on the board at that pick.
True, but the way I read it is JJM as a possibility (if Maye is gone). Not that they would maybe do it for JJM, I read it as we have a deal in place with AZ for Maye, JD or JJM. You could be right, but I don't see Rico even mentioning JJM if it was maybe for JJM definitely for JD or Maye.
The word "possibility" creates uncertainty for me about whether a deal is in place for JJM.
Yeah, it go either way as in maybe/uncertain for JJM or as JJM being a possibility along with Maye and JD.
Yup.
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In comment 16485005 BleedBlue46 said:
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Somewhat of a change.
Rico : 9:43 pm : link : reply
It sounds like we have some deal in place with Arizona to move up to 4. At first it was only for Maye or Daniels, but today my source mentioned JJ as a possibility.
Two years ago it seemed like Thibs was off our board, but then my source said he was on our board in the final 24 hours before the draft. This may be a similar situation
What thread is this in?
Would you make this trade for JJM?
I would. I like Maye more but I think JJM is going to be at worst above average
Part 1 of a double trade-up methinks...
+1
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In comment 16485043 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16485005 BleedBlue46 said:
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Somewhat of a change.
Rico : 9:43 pm : link : reply
It sounds like we have some deal in place with Arizona to move up to 4. At first it was only for Maye or Daniels, but today my source mentioned JJ as a possibility.
Two years ago it seemed like Thibs was off our board, but then my source said he was on our board in the final 24 hours before the draft. This may be a similar situation
What thread is this in?
Would you make this trade for JJM?
I would. I like Maye more but I think JJM is going to be at worst above average
That's the thread the post is in ;)
I am still hoping for Maye but JJM is solid as well.. Daniel Jones is not the QB for this team and we need our guy on board..
We have holes but in order to build you have to have a center piece and that is your QB...
If he trades for McCarthy.. Schoen will go as the worst gm we ever had.. at least gettlemen drafted the best players on this team.
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wow.....
If he trades for McCarthy.. Schoen will go as the worst gm we ever had.. at least gettlemen drafted the best players on this team.
Sure sure..
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my hopes up until the deal is done. Giants can still easily get boxed out here. Or the cost may be so great that it leaves an unsettled feeling.
You go to hell. You go to hell and you die! I'm literally going stir crazy at this point.
I took tomorrow off because I knew there was no way I would concentrate on work..
In the end I doubt Pats will bite their nose to spite their face, McCarthy is the guy they want. Everybody gets what they want with no team being excessively ripped off.
-Pats get 4 and select McCarthy at a better spot while they get fair (not a rip off) type compensation
-Giants get 3 and get their highest graded target in Maye (though McCarthy is closely graded)
- Cards get 6 and get the blue chip pass catcher
In the end I doubt Pats will bite their nose to spite their face, McCarthy is the guy they want. Everybody gets what they want with no team being excessively ripped off.
-Pats get 4 and select McCarthy at a better spot while they get fair (not a rip off) type compensation
-Giants get 3 and get their highest graded target in Maye (though McCarthy is closely graded)
- Cards get 6 and get the blue chip pass catcher
Either that or Schoen just calls their bluff with a deal in place to get to 4 knowing he's fine with JJM or Maye for the reasonable trade cost. Then NE takes Kraft's guy in JJM at 3 looking like the interim year 1 GM Wolf is.
Yes but one benefit to being a Giants fan over the past few years is that our team always drafts early in the night.
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And Pats are trying to get Giants to give up more. Giants are not budging as they know their offer is more than fair.
In the end I doubt Pats will bite their nose to spite their face, McCarthy is the guy they want. Everybody gets what they want with no team being excessively ripped off.
-Pats get 4 and select McCarthy at a better spot while they get fair (not a rip off) type compensation
-Giants get 3 and get their highest graded target in Maye (though McCarthy is closely graded)
- Cards get 6 and get the blue chip pass catcher
Either that or Schoen just calls their bluff with a deal in place to get to 4 knowing he's fine with JJM or Maye for the reasonable trade cost. Then NE takes Kraft's guy in JJM at 3 looking like the interim year 1 GM Wolf is.
Is his only leverage McCarthy or can he get San Diego involved? Without San Diego I agree he certainly has less leverage. Maybe one of these moving parts shifted and he doesn't have San Diego anor Minnesota ready to give up the mother load anymore.
All possible but it becomes a huge drop for those clubs. Cardinals won't drop below 6. Patriots likely want one of the Maye/JJ or WR's.
All things considered (including injury risk), JJM has the highest floor of any QB in this draft. Fight me.
It is not the "4th best". It is the presumed 4th-taken.
Did Brandon Beane select the 3rd best QB in 2018 in Josh Allen, behind Mayfield and Darnold? And if you looked at most of the mocks and draft community, you would've said at the time he was the 4th best, behind Josh Rosen, too.
And I can't believe Brett Veach risked his legacy on Patrick Mahomes at 10th overall. Clearly they should've moved heaven and earth to move up ahead of the Bears to take Mitchell Trubisky #1 overall.
Hell, there's a non-zero chance that Spencer Rattler becomes the best NFL quarterback in this class.
Take the guy you have a conviction on. I really like JJM. I think he's going to be a really good QB, with potential to be a top 5 NFL QB. And any of the top 6 guys have a somewhat of a real chance at that. I truly believe JJM will be successful in the NFL. How successful is the big question, but I think he has what it takes to reach his potential. Let's hope that potential is a multi-championship winning franchise QB.
This group will probably have a success story or two, and probably a flop or two. Predicting who will be what is something the NFL has repeatedly shown itself to be terrible at.
The way the NFL approaches the QB position is deeply flawed from the scouting process all the way through to the pro QB evaluation process. So much is a function of luck that best thing an organization can do is take as many swings at solving it as they can.
As more broken out stats posted the other day demonstrated, JJ McCarthy was one of the best of the top 6 QB’s when facing pressure. Bo Nix and Jayden Daniels also ranked highly in those areas. Jayden Daniels nobody expects to be there so not worth discussing, but with Nix his ADOT was greater than 33% lower than McCarthy’s which could skew data as any QB this high will have their highest completion percentage behind the LOS followed by 0-9 yards. Despite not throwing for a lot of yards or TD’s, McCarthy has by far the highest percentage of 3rd and 7+ attempts going for first downs of all of the top 6 QB’s. His completion percentage in those situations is on par with Nix and Daniels in that situation which tells me that he is looking to extend drives and not just dumping it off and praying. Additionally, at 8% for McCarthy and 11% for Daniels these two have the lowest screen pass % of the top 6 QB’s. Nix is at a whopping 22%. That is not to say that McCarthy is guaranteed to have success in the NFL, but analytics based teams might rank him higher.
Second, teams generally do not operate with a numerical listing of players. Teams cluster players into tiers and try to get a player from the highest tier remaining.
Third, if you solely relied on ranking at a position you would see teams drafting K1 in Round 1 like you are Al Davis with Sebastian Janikowski. This gets back to my point above, if you are not taking someone from your top tier of remaining talent you are not getting the best players. If you look at The Huddle Report, they have at least 39 OL above the top K in this draft. Should a team bypass OL33 just to draft K1?
4th best QB according to who?
The QB must also be great
2. The Pats owner loves JJM, anyone close to the organization heard this a dozen times. However this past week their draft board had JJM lower than expected.
3. The Pats let it be known yesterday they decided they are taking Maye.
4. So Schoen going to #4, let's the Pats know they can get JJM and some reasonable compensation. Or the Giants don't have any reservations taking JJM at that spot.
5. Schoen knows he has to get a QB this draft. This would reset his and Dabs timeline of working with the new QB. This move buys them 2 more years of getting the Giants on track.
2. The Pats owner loves JJM, anyone close to the organization heard this a dozen times. However this past week their draft board had JJM lower than expected.
3. The Pats let it be known yesterday they decided they are taking Maye.
4. So Schoen going to #4, let's the Pats know they can get JJM and some reasonable compensation. Or the Giants don't have any reservations taking JJM at that spot.
5. Schoen knows he has to get a QB this draft. This would reset his and Dabs timeline of working with the new QB. This move buys them 2 more years of getting the Giants on track.
This is most realistic timeline and thought toward NYG - NE dialog.
I will assume NYG likes Maye and McCarthy close to the same, if NYG can get to 4 they get a QB. If NE and NYG can come to reasonable compensation on a swap of 3 & 4 then Giants get Maye and NE gets McCarthy, and say pick 70.
If NE decides they still want JJ they take him at 3 and Giants get Maye.
Getting to pick 4 simplifies the decision making.
2. The Pats owner loves JJM, anyone close to the organization heard this a dozen times. However this past week their draft board had JJM lower than expected.
3. The Pats let it be known yesterday they decided they are taking Maye.
4. So Schoen going to #4, let's the Pats know they can get JJM and some reasonable compensation. Or the Giants don't have any reservations taking JJM at that spot.
5. Schoen knows he has to get a QB this draft. This would reset his and Dabs timeline of working with the new QB. This move buys them 2 more years of getting the Giants on track.
Regarding 5, I think it's just simply they desperately need a QB. Any guy they have a first round grade on they will try hard to get. Williams & Daniels are out of reach. That leaves Maye & McCarthy.
It's less about timelines and more about building THEIR team. Between QB and the Burns trade, it's time to build their way. It's year 3 already.
Broncos have no ammo and the Chargers are not dealing within their division.
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Broncos and maybe another team may cut in
Broncos have no ammo and the Chargers are not dealing within their division.
-Giants have Cards deal on apparent lockdown
-Giants take McCarthy at @4 should Maye go 3
-Therefore, Kraft has to stick and pick McCarthy at 3 or lose McCarthy to G-Men at 4, Chargers pick becomes useless to Pats at that point if Vikes trade up.
This group will probably have a success story or two, and probably a flop or two. Predicting who will be what is something the NFL has repeatedly shown itself to be terrible at.
The way the NFL approaches the QB position is deeply flawed from the scouting process all the way through to the pro QB evaluation process. So much is a function of luck that best thing an organization can do is take as many swings at solving it as they can.
Really just a great summary of the reality of finding a QB. I was a person hoping DJ would pan out after 22, but 23 was a bucket of cold water on those hopes. We need to just keep taking shots until we find the right person. Fail fast until you get it right.
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In comment 16485167 bc4life said:
Quote:
Broncos and maybe another team may cut in
Broncos have no ammo and the Chargers are not dealing within their division.
-Giants have Cards deal on apparent lockdown
-Giants take McCarthy at @4 should Maye go 3
-Therefore, Kraft has to stick and pick McCarthy at 3 or lose McCarthy to G-Men at 4, Chargers pick becomes useless to Pats at that point if Vikes trade up.
I'm guessing LAC don't want to move down with the Vikings which boxes them out of weaseling up to 3 or 4. They would have to get to 5 first. AZ doesn't want to miss out on Nabers or MHJ. LAC presumably don't want to miss out on Nabers/MHJ/Alt, I think they want one of MHJ/Nabers too.
The only way we could make the trade with AZ before NE picks is if somehow NE gave AZ the guarantee that they aren't taking a WR. That happens in trades in the draft. If Schoen has a deal in place with AZ, then I presume the Vikings simply can't move into the top 5 so AZ has agreed to the preliminary deal with us. In that situation, I would just tell Wolf that we have a deal in place to get to 4 and we like both JJM and Maye so yall go ahead and pick your guy.