I know a lot of fans see prospects like Nabers and visualize him taking the top off the defense. They probably see the most electric offensive player this franchise has had since Beckham,
Harrison may be the safest player in the draft. He might not be as flashy as Nabers, but you plug him in as your WR1 for the next 5 years.
I see how fans would want either. But, it's year 3 of the Schoen/Daboll regime. Right now, there isn't much to show for it. I think most of us can agree that the success of 2022 led to some consequences. We can all debate how responsible Schoen was for the Jones contract, we can debate if Schoen hitched his wagon to Jones. What we can't debate are the actions Schoen took prior to the 2022 success and the hesitation to talk extension contract with him during the 2022 season.
I know a lot of fans like the idea of playing the long game, keep building. How long do these guys have? Again, it's year THREE. This really is the time for them to get their QB. If there is one thing the Burns trade really told me, Schoen is building this thing his way. Letting Barkley & McKinney walk coupled with trading for Burns is a big indicator of that imo.
Now, I think it's QB. This is when you start to really see Schoen's vision come together. Will it work? Who knows. But when you look at their regime in total, I think 2025 needs to be a very competitive season. And how are you competitive in 2025?
-Cheap QB (Maye or McCarthy)
-WR1 (probably via trade - maybe Aiyuk as we've seen Rickey speculate)
It's a vision. It's a build. And I really think by year 3 there needs to be that vision. And yes, the QB could bust. A lot of QBs do. But, that doesn't mean you keep starting Jones until that perfect QB comes along which is once a generation.
This is simply why I see QB tonight. I don't think these guys have all the time in the world here. Draft Nabers and project that scenario out. NYG finishes about the same next year and they are in the same exact QB predicament with their seats scorching hot. That's not a good place to be.
The QB stuff makes sense imo.
That being said my 10th rated plater (QB) is more valuable than my 5th rated player (WR) because my QB room is not good. Essentially empty after this season if we release/trade Jones as expected...
Good point. If they don't take it, I don't think they'll get another swing at it.
If there was a QB to take it would have really helped, wouldn't it?
Of the end for the Joe Schoen / Brian Daboll regime.
I think the Giants are a more talented and competitive team than they are being given credit for. Assuming they don't get killed with significant injuries once again, they will make the playoffs this year and may even go far.
What this isn't is the first year the boy genius has had the shackles removed so he can do as he wants. I think the jury is still very much still out on whether Schoen is the long term answer for this team. The decisions he makes tonight may go a long way to eventually settling that argument.
Of the end for the Joe Schoen / Brian Daboll regime.
More fat boy than the GM IMO
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Schoen and Daboll taking a second shot at building THEIR team. The first attempt failed miserably. The hope is that they learned their lesson.
It didn't fail miserably. They won a playoff game in year one and in year two they suffered significant injuries to three players they were greatly depending on (Jones, Thomas, Waller) and consequently have the 6th overall pick (which can be turned into a blue chip WR or the potential future at QB) and had the 39th overall pick which was converted into Brian Burns.
I think the Giants are a more talented and competitive team than they are being given credit for. Assuming they don't get killed with significant injuries once again, they will make the playoffs this year and may even go far.
The season was virtually over when Jones got hurt, and his play, while healthy, was a big part of why the season was over so quickly.
We won in 2022 because Brian Daboll and his staff designed an offense to limit what Jones does worst - pass the ball. It worked for half a season until defenses caught up to it, which is why the record down the stretch was terrible. In the playoffs we got a good draw against an historically bad defense and won. It was impressive coaching. How many teams make the playoffs in the 21st century with a QB throwing less than a passing TD per game?
Schoen's mistake in evaluating 2022 was the same as yours - looking at the result and not the process. The way that team won had a definite shelf life and he failed to see that.
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if it was about building THEIR team when they had the #5 and #7 pick. Could have done some damage.
If there was a QB to take it would have really helped, wouldn't it?
Knowing that they needed one would have been a start.
Fans give Schoen and Daboll far too little responsibility for being in this situation in the first place.
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\ Giants have 15 first rd rated players and clearly 4 of those 15 are QB's.
Why is that clear? We know they did their homework on the QBs, we don't know what they concluded.
Seriously? We know Williams, Daniels and Maye are 1st rd for sure, you can assume time spent says JJM is also rd 1.. That is a SAFE assumption..
To date the hallmark of this regime is signing a loser backup QB who is worth $10 M / year max to one of the most foolish contracts in team history. Although I suspect he had no choice and Mara was negotiating both sides of that deal.
This is it. You get a chance to build something. Do you want to putter around 6-9 wins and hope to be on the "In the Hunt" graphic in December? Or do you want to try to build a consistent contender that can play and win big games against good teams? This is the draft.
If we procrastinate on QB, we are pushing the timeline out to 2026/7. Who's going to be around by then besides the Maras? We will see.
We won in 2022 because Brian Daboll and his staff designed an offense to limit what Jones does worst - pass the ball.
Year 2 they under achieved badly per year 1
I will keep it simple, I want a great player!
Schoen has been good managing the cap and cutting some fat, drafting not so much. And Waller still made no sense, Golladay redux (injury/the final piece).
I don't disagree with this, but there are several BBIers who claim there is NO SUCH THING as a multi-year re-build in the NFL!
I guess I don't have the same mindset as you where I just trust everyone is smarter than me and those people's actions are not subject to criticism.
The fact that you are in denial about this is astounding.
This.
They fucked the DJ situation to no end.
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The regime inherited a team that was a mess. It was always going to be a multi-year rebuild. They are trying to secure their guy at QB. Not more to it than that.
I don't disagree with this, but there are several BBIers who claim there is NO SUCH THING as a multi-year re-build in the NFL!
There aren't. Look at the Texans and Lions. If rebuild takes 5 years there will be another regime coming in. That's the point,
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The regime inherited a team that was a mess. It was always going to be a multi-year rebuild. They are trying to secure their guy at QB. Not more to it than that.
I don't disagree with this, but there are several BBIers who claim there is NO SUCH THING as a multi-year re-build in the NFL!
Of course there are multi-year rebuilds. My criticism was that year 1 was a good first step. Year 2 they deviated from the plan because of winning a playoff game rather than trusting the process and continuing on the path they started. How else do you explain declining Jones' 5th year option and then signing him to a lucrative, multi-year deal?
It is also possible that we don't draft a QB and all of the top 6 prospects are off the board at the end of the night, and Joe Schoen states once again that they believe fully in Daniel Jones.
The fact that you are in denial about this is astounding.
More or less, yes. But the Jones deal was structured in a way to give them an out after 2 years. They had a QB who took them to a playoff game and won with a bad roster around him, they signed him to a franchise QB contract but hedged that bet in a way that made it a two year commitment. Last year went down the way that it did, and now it's clear they're moving on. So that's where we are.
Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll are starting Year 3 and it will take them at least 2-to-3 more years to get this boat sailing in the right direction. Or, Mara heaves them over the side in Year 5 or 6.
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if they in fact land a QB tonight, it means they are openly admitting they fucked up.
The fact that you are in denial about this is astounding.
More or less, yes. But the Jones deal was structured in a way to give them an out after 2 years. They had a QB who took them to a playoff game and won with a bad roster around him, they signed him to a franchise QB contract but hedged that bet in a way that made it a two year commitment. Last year went down the way that it did, and now it's clear they're moving on. So that's where we are.
So everyone calling it a restart all over are overlooking the fact that this was a contingency that was built into the plan all along.
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is going to be a very uncomfortable day for those that are members of the DJFC. It's very possible his replacement is drafted in the next 12 hours or so.
It is also possible that we don't draft a QB and all of the top 6 prospects are off the board at the end of the night, and Joe Schoen states once again that they believe fully in Daniel Jones.
Agree. If we go WR (extremely possible), and don't get Penix/Nix later in the first round, get ready for the "we believe in DJ" rhetoric.
Which I believe will be the beginning of the end for the current regime.
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I've heard you reference the Giants being 5 years away. That doesn't exist. 2-3 years max if the regime is competent.
Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll are starting Year 3 and it will take them at least 2-to-3 more years to get this boat sailing in the right direction. Or, Mara heaves them over the side in Year 5 or 6.
That is because they used year 2 to undo the progress made in year 1 which set them back to square 1. This team is not in much better shape today than the team Schoen inherited. We don't have a QB, we don't have a good Oline, we don't have playmakers on offense, and we have questions up and down the D (although the Dline seems to be coming together with a high pick and trade to supplement the Gettleman pick that is the glue).
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In comment 16485501 Sean said:
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I've heard you reference the Giants being 5 years away. That doesn't exist. 2-3 years max if the regime is competent.
Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll are starting Year 3 and it will take them at least 2-to-3 more years to get this boat sailing in the right direction. Or, Mara heaves them over the side in Year 5 or 6.
That is because they used year 2 to undo the progress made in year 1 which set them back to square 1. This team is not in much better shape today than the team Schoen inherited. We don't have a QB, we don't have a good Oline, we don't have playmakers on offense, and we have questions up and down the D (although the Dline seems to be coming together with a high pick and trade to supplement the Gettleman pick that is the glue).
Nailed it.
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In comment 16485488 Eric from BBI said:
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if they in fact land a QB tonight, it means they are openly admitting they fucked up.
The fact that you are in denial about this is astounding.
More or less, yes. But the Jones deal was structured in a way to give them an out after 2 years. They had a QB who took them to a playoff game and won with a bad roster around him, they signed him to a franchise QB contract but hedged that bet in a way that made it a two year commitment. Last year went down the way that it did, and now it's clear they're moving on. So that's where we are.
So everyone calling it a restart all over are overlooking the fact that this was a contingency that was built into the plan all along.
I don't know that everyone sees putting a two year out (or 2+ with the injury guarantee) into a lucrative contract for a below average player as a building block. He could have franchised Jones and let him walk this year and played Lock and this team would be in much better shape than it is today.
So yes, the bad contract he signed could have been worse. It was still a poor decision.
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In comment 16485389 UberAlias said:
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The regime inherited a team that was a mess. It was always going to be a multi-year rebuild. They are trying to secure their guy at QB. Not more to it than that.
I don't disagree with this, but there are several BBIers who claim there is NO SUCH THING as a multi-year re-build in the NFL!
There aren't. Look at the Texans and Lions. If rebuild takes 5 years there will be another regime coming in. That's the point,
Two things:
(1) there are always exceptions to the rule. But that doesn't make the exceptions the rule.
(2) And is it really just a 2-year re-build? Clearly, the Lions have several promising young players but a few were secured a while ago such as Frank Ragnow (2018) and Taylor Decker (2016).
Barkley is gone, mercifully.
If they draft a QB tonight and end the Jones catastrophe it won't guarantee success, but it will at least be a new direction in earnest. It will feel like waking up from a coma.
It would be malpractice to trade valuable capital for Burns and pay him a lot of money and then not improve the most important position. Get a QB, Joe. Sick of watching a pathetic Jones led offense.
Which moves to Schoen make that are the foundations of the rebuild? Signing Jones did not help. Keeping Barkley an extra year and then letting him walk for nothing did not help. He has not fixed the Oline, blowing a top 10 pick on it with the only solid player in the group being a player he inherited. He traded for Waller who has likely already played his last game as a Giants.
The moves for Okereke and (hopefully) Burns seem like solid rebuild moves. Robinson and Hyatt may be players, but we need an Oline and a QB before anyone will know that for sure.
I guess I just don't see substantial progress from 2021 to 2023 that you do.
His failures include:
(1) Giving Jones that ridiculous contract, and as a consequence less than a year after doing so likely having to give up a top 10 pick and then some to get another QB.
(2) Not fixing the OL despite drafting Neal, Schmitz, Ezeudu, and McKethan, and signing Glowinski.
(3) Drafting Bellinger instead of Isaiah Likely or Jake Ferguson.
(4) Having to trade a second and a fifth for Burns because in two offseasons he only found one decent edge rusher, KT, and that was with the fifth pick in the draft.
(5) Not trading Barkley last year.
Whatever he does, he needs to nail this draft. No more chances. No more excuses.
His failures include:
(1) Giving Jones that ridiculous contract, and as a consequence less than a year after doing so likely having to give up a top 10 pick and then some to get another QB.
(2) Not fixing the OL despite drafting Neal, Schmitz, Ezeudu, and McKethan, and signing Glowinski.
(3) Drafting Bellinger instead of Isaiah Likely or Jake Ferguson.
(4) Having to trade a second and a fifth for Burns because in two offseasons he only found one decent edge rusher, KT, and that was with the fifth pick in the draft.
(5) Not trading Barkley last year.
Whatever he does, he needs to nail this draft. No more chances. No more excuses.
I also give him credit for signing Okereke.
Signing Campbell was another failure but it was low cost.
I supported the Waller trade and still think it was a reasonable move so I won't list it as a failure, but it obviously didn't work out.
The defense mechanism of trying to rationalize the DJ decision is weak. They own that. And they're allowed to fail sometimes.
The 2022 offense wanted to run the ball out of the read option, and complete a high volume of short passes.
The 2024 offense wants to ....
When I look at the roster, I don't think there is an answer.
I can understand the DJ situation, but the overall situation is harder to justify. Gotta take a big step forward this year.