(1) Lack of awareness that every position cannot be addressed. This has been confirmed more than ever this year by the endless 7-round mock drafts that have been posted.
When you ask why they don't like the mock, these fans don't say it is the prospect, but the position that wasn't drafted.
"You didn't draft an TE! Where is the S?" All while not recognizing that had they done so, the same fan would be asking "Where is the OL and CB?"
If the Giants trade up in this draft, this is going to be a very small draft class. Prepare yourself mentally.
(2) Drafting any player does not fix the position, this is especially true of later round picks. Don't get caught up in what they draft, but who.
(3) Nobody - and I mean nobody - knows how any of these prospects will turn out. To lose your shit over some draft pick who you don't like is downright dumb and embarrassing. You can have questions. You can voice doubts. But don't throw a freaking tantrum. Every single year we see guys who were "bad picks" end up being very good and guys who were supposed to be "great picks" end up being busts. Recognize that fact.
Vent over.
Enjoy the draft.
There's still plenty of roster maneuvering that happens after the draft. Holes will get filled one way or another. ;)
Load the BBI hamster up with steroids and red bull. It is going to be a long night.
Load the BBI hamster up with steroids and red bull. It is going to be a long night.
Depending on what happens, we might be picking early tonight and then not again until Saturday.
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you will all be the first to know!
Load the BBI hamster up with steroids and red bull. It is going to be a long night.
Depending on what happens, we might be picking early tonight and then not again until Saturday.
I hope that is true. It likely means we have all day Friday to watch Drake Maye highlights and dream of a brighter tomorrow.
(BTW, I really hope fans also realize that Maye and McCarthy really need to sit their rookie season, or be spoon fed).
3 of the first 5 players off the board last year made the pro bowl as rookies, including QB2 Stroud. 4 of the first 12, and all 4 played for winning teams.
2 of the top 5 made pro bowl year 1 in 2022 (sauce/hutchinson).
7 of the top 13 in 2021 have made pro bowls and that doesnt count devonta smith or waddle. chase, parsons, surtain, slater were pro bowlers right away.
if the nyg get their first pick right today it could very well be a high level player who fundamentally changes the trajectory of the 2024 season and beyond. the non-qb odds are higher than the qb odds, but either way they obviously need to just get the pick right tonight. winning teams also find tank dells/pukas later on but this org needs to start by nailing a high pick because if they dont and they get another one next year it would be hard to justify not changing the decision making process somehow.
I think part of the issue here is that some fancy themselves as "armchair GM's" and get bent out of shape when their favorite players are not selected. To them I say ... teams have way more information on players than the fans and with a limited number of selections, you can't fully address all the needs.
That said, some teams have traditionally done a better job scouting than others - witness Puka Nacua, who came out of "nowhere" and is a legit star, and any number of Dallas and Philly draft choices over the years.
Let's hope the current Giant Administration's scouting changes bear fruit this year and don't discount UDFA's entirely. Some pleasant surprises have occurred. Rare, but it could happen.
Stay cool and balanced. Enjoy the Draft.
Enjoy the draft. Great time of year!
(BTW, I really hope fans also realize that Maye and McCarthy really need to sit their rookie season, or be spoon fed).
Neither of them will start the season. I am hoping Drew Lock is under center most of the season. But I would not be surprised to see Maye play later in the year if the season is lost with a scaled back playbook to get him experience before he starts next year.
If it is McCarthy, I think he needs to be stapled to the bench for all of 2024 as I see his learning curve and skill development to be a little steeper.
BBI and self awareness are like oil and water.
If it doesn't go their way they whine.
Better to just enjoy it.
(BTW, I really hope fans also realize that Maye and McCarthy really need to sit their rookie season, or be spoon fed).
he played in the most pro style system, he has experience with play action from under center, and against the best competition any QB in this class faced over his last 4 games he had 0 turnovers. osu, iowa, alabama, uw. he played more top 10 teams in that 4 game stretch than the rest of these guys played in the entire college careers.
i think his skill set fits pretty well with what josh allen was in his rookie year. im not sure he starts day 1 but i think he will be ready to come in at some point his rookie year and do more effectively what devito did last year. use his legs, keep chains moving running play action and boots, run a not too complicated passing game.
maye im not as sure about day 1 but thats mostly based on the experts who all seem to say he needs to sit.
Now when it comes to roster building and organizational strategy, I do have a few strong opinions. And i think that's something that smart fans can analyze effectively. But player evaluation? That's crazy talk.
I want a QB. There are 6 that could be good. Some will, some won't. GMs are pretty terrible at predicting it. And they should understand that there is massive uncertainty (i.e., "conviction" is dumb). I get having an opinion, but the certainty on what a player is going to be is just stupid
Because many evaluated it through the eyes of "was that pick good value at that spot" rather than "was that a good prospect who is part of the identity they are building."
That is why posts like "I like Player A at #11 a lot, but not #6" as being foolish. You aren't trying to get the biggest discount on a player, you are trying to build a team than can win games.
im not sure anyone said it was bad, i think people liked the players they got but there was DEFINITE criticism of their value because they took all non-premium positions. RB, LB, TE, S with the first 4 picks is literally the 4 least valuable positions.
they also got a pretty meager return for dropping from #6 to #12.
2/4 made the pro bowl and all 4 started though which is why i keep saying "just get the picks right". if you get picks right the team gets better.
Both need to get their feet wet at some point.
+1. Always laugh/cringe at this. Get over yourself, nobody is throwing a remote after a draft pick. Unless you are a child.
We’re on a football forum for gods sake. This is whole point, to discuss things and share opinions.
Personally, I don't know squat, and as I get older, I like to just watch it unfold.
case in point: I "strongly" suspect, Schoen is trying to get into position to draft "his" QB. If they don't take a QB tonight, it was not for lack of trying.
I will be ok with whoever they take, but I know I will see a bunch of threads tomorrow, that JS should be FIRED immediately because he didn't draft a QB. (sigh).
Of course our poster hasn’t seen the other 300 prospects who play that same position, but they love their guy.
Let’s face it…it’s a crap shoot. The guys who scout everyone and get paid to be right get it wrong all the time. Nobody here, except for maybe Sy , has grounds to go nuts on a player selection, and even he misses despite the scouting he does. So sit back, see what happens, and revisit the pick in two or three years when there’s an actual basis for criticism based on performance.
RE: I love the Detroit Lions draft
AcidTest : mute : 4/28/2023 8:18 pm : link
In comment 16101445 Chris684 said:
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Gibbs
Campbell
LaPorta
Branch
4 guys who will start immediately. I really like what they’ve done.
Agreed.
https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=634434&show_all=1 - ( New Window )
the bottom 3 teams all made their respective conference championship game lol.
Sharp Football: best value 2023 NFL draft classes - ( New Window )
The one thing we probably agree on is the need for a new qb. My take is at what cost to get the guy. I have my preference but it is pure good fortune if my player for quarterback will become our franchise qb and lead us to the promise land. I hope we all enjoy the draft and the Giants get it right more than wrong.
True but every year we get "draft grades" post draft that we had a phenomenal draft.
The one that always sticks out to me was when the Giants drafted JPP. Experts killed the pick as a big time reach.
"Remote thrower" and "lose my shit" mean a person thinks they know more than they actually do. *grin*
im pretty sure we knew the 2007 draft class turned out good right away.
also pretty sure DET/LAR/HOU are already quite happy with their 2023 classes.
if we want to turn this franchise around it starts with a homerun draft class that produces way beyond middle of the road.
Or if they stay pat and give up no draft capital to get one of the three best players in this draft in MHJ/Nabers/Odunze, I will be extremely content and know that we have a GM who is proceeding with sensible moves with the goal of straight line progress for this franchise, one smart move at a time. And I will hope they take a quarterback when it makes sense in this draft. Maybe a trade up for Penix? Or a Rattler/Pratt in the mid rounds? Or perhaps a Milton in a later round?
But if they trade up or reach for JJM, then I will know that history is about to repeat itself and would think that BBI traffic would explode? That we have a GM who recognizes that by taking and anointing a quarterback on scholarship, even though said quarterback doesn't possess the talent to be deserving of such an anointment, will buy himself four years in the job to make sure he surrounds said quarterback with the OL and weapons to be successful. And then blames everyone but said quarterback when it fails, firing the coach and destroying any locker room cohesion just to buy more time.
Isn't another half decade of quarterback hell great for BBI traffic?
If that’s the case, every NFL team can save tens of millions of dollars on a scouting department & traveling the country throughout the year by just using a free draft guide online. 🙄
Declaring the future is set (good or bad) because a specific player was or was not selected.
Speaking as if their evaluation of a player is a fact that just has not happened yet but will indeed happen (good or bad).
Labeling professionals in the field (GM's, scouts, head coaches etc) morons for selecting or not selecting a player.
I am missing some. These were off the top of my head.
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Not disagreeing at all, but prepare for when reality hits. Friday could suck.
(BTW, I really hope fans also realize that Maye and McCarthy really need to sit their rookie season, or be spoon fed).
Neither of them will start the season. I am hoping Drew Lock is under center most of the season. But I would not be surprised to see Maye play later in the year if the season is lost with a scaled back playbook to get him experience before he starts next year.
If it is McCarthy, I think he needs to be stapled to the bench for all of 2024 as I see his learning curve and skill development to be a little steeper.
Personally I think Williams shouldn't seethe field for the first half or a season. All the talent in the world doesn't mean he ready. Maybe he does a Stroud but Mahomes fucking sat a year. And it will be a miracle if any of these QBs ever get to do what he's done.
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Imo. We are fans. Some like to think of ourselves as knowledgeable fans about the team and the game. But very few of us are really qualified to evaluate prospective NFL players. Stating opinions based on what we've seen, read, discussed, etc., is, of course, why we are here. But unequivocal pronouncements, e.g. "(fill in the blank) sucks," about players and decisions the Giants make about players are annoying. So, just a plea here to have some self-awareness to know what we don't know and act accordingly.
BBI and self awareness are like oil and water.
This
Re: JMS - I don't get the hate on this board. He seems to be 2 different players, pre and post injury. Pre injury he was decent and progressing. Post injury, he looked like a rookie and limited. I, for one, am looking forward to seeing him A) healthy and B) surrounded by 2 decent OGs.
I also agree that either Maye or McCarthy would need to sit for most or all of the year. But, the big question there is who would start the season, Lock or Jones?
There is no such thing as a “reach.” The “correct” slot is where the player is actually taken, not where the people who run the fake drafts THINK they should be taken.
The fake drafts exist to predict the results of the REAL draft. The real draft’s purpose isn’t to align itself with the predictions of the various fake drafts. People seem to forget this.
There was a time when mock drafts used to be judged by how closely they aligned with the ACTUAL draft. Now this has been completely turned on its head, and the people making REAL draft picks are judged by how closely they match up with somebody’s fake draft. This is the only industry in which people making predictions can arrogantly escape accountability by proclaiming that the event that they were predicting was incorrect, rather than they themselves being incorrect. It’s like a financial analyst making multiple inaccurate forecasts and saying that it wasn’t their forecast that was bad, their forecast was great, it’s the MARKET that was wrong. It’s like a student saying the reason for their poor grade on a test is that the teacher did not provide questions that matched up with their answers. It’s completely ass fucking backwards, and it boggles the mind that people seriously buy into this shit and will kill organizations for not conforming to the guesswork of amateurs.
*use of the word "reach"
There is no such thing as a “reach.” The “correct” slot is where the player is actually taken, not where the people who run the fake drafts THINK they should be taken.
The fake drafts exist to predict the results of the REAL draft. The real draft’s purpose isn’t to align itself with the predictions of the various fake drafts. People seem to forget this.
There was a time when mock drafts used to be judged by how closely they aligned with the ACTUAL draft. Now this has been completely turned on its head, and the people making REAL draft picks are judged by how closely they match up with somebody’s fake draft. This is the only industry in which people making predictions can arrogantly escape accountability by proclaiming that the event that they were predicting was incorrect, rather than they themselves being incorrect. It’s like a financial analyst making multiple inaccurate forecasts and saying that it wasn’t their forecast that was bad, their forecast was great, it’s the MARKET that was wrong. It’s like a student saying the reason for their poor grade on a test is that the teacher did not provide questions that matched up with their answers. It’s completely ass fucking backwards, and it boggles the mind that people seriously buy into this shit and will kill organizations for not conforming to the guesswork of amateurs.
For me, Daniel Jones, as another example, wasn't a reach because of what any mock draft/"expert" had him pegged as. He was a reach because the #6 pick, in my opinion, should be a premium/franchise player and I don't think there was reason to strongly believe he would be that based on his college resume. That doesn't happen in a bubble because that is what got him the 5th year option, for example, which impacted the way the organization operated the last couple of years.
In terms of value of particular picks, sure, there are some examples where we can have some sense of how the rest of the league probably values a guy and you don't want to be jumping up multiple rounds early to be taking someone. In the Tommy Devito example - sure - taking him in the first would have been rightfully panned. But there aren't really two many examples where its going to be that obvious. More likely, you'll have draftniks who have a guy as a third or fourth rounder who maybe goes in the second. The problem is that if a team likes a guy and has a sense that another team or two does too, the expert rankings don't really tell you the whole story. Impossible to know whether the team is out of step with other teams or is it actually the experts.
I get really tired of that gaslighting garbage.
(BTW, I really hope fans also realize that Maye and McCarthy really need to sit their rookie season, or be spoon fed).
So picking them essentially buys this regime another year. Something to ponder as to why they may be willing to give up a kings ransom to move up.
Eric was spot on in his OP.