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| @RalphVacchiano I do believe the Giants will make an offer. I do not believe they have the ammunition or even the desire to make it the proverbial “offer they can’t refuse.” 12:23 PM · Apr 25, 2024 |
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| @RalphVacchiano Or, to put it another way, this hasn’t really changed in the last three weeks. .. except that I probably think it’s a lot less likely that the Giants trade up now than I did then. 12:26 PM · Apr 25, 2024 |
Giants and Vikings want Maye. (We don't know if the Giants are OK or not with McCarthy).
McCarthy tells media Giants showing the most interest and the feeling sounds mutual.
What the Patriots want is the Giants to give them a bunch of free stuff. I doubt they have any intention of moving down with the Vikings.
See, I have been saying this for a bit. The idea the Vikings have more ammunition is not true. Interesting the Giants gave a pretty candid article the other day saying they had just 15 first round grades this year. Think about that for a second. The Vikings have picks 11 and 23 this year.. if a team says they have folks with 15 first rd grades you can assume other teams are in that same ballpark.. So hey Pats if you trade to 11 and 23 you are basically dropping back for the 11th guy and a 2nd round value.. Makes me think we were being so "honest" for the Pats and Cards ears as much as for the general public...
I'd guess it's because the owners, namely Kraft, are involved and they get worked up over the press.
But I think he has this 100% nailed.
Now if they could live with Penix, this changes things. But my gut - which may be wrong - says it is McCarthy.
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In comment 16486092 Eric from BBI said:
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is so transparent.
And we've got 7.5 hours more of this.
Transparent in that its coming out of the Giants to get the price down?
For whatever reason, the Giants and Pats are negotiating through the press right now.
With all these reports of the NE/Giants potential deal parameters and progress it does feel that way.
I'm not giving away the #1 pick in 2025. There is no need to at this point.
No thanks. Hang up the phone.
Are you saying you wouldn't trade up to 3 or you think they could get it done without it? Personally I don't see any way the Giants get up there without including their '25 1st.
I'm not.
And if McCarthy and keep the #1 pick is my fallback, that's not terrible at all (and you want the Pats to think that way too).
I'm not.
And if McCarthy and keep the #1 pick is my fallback, that's not terrible at all (and you want the Pats to think that way too).
Am I sure? No. But I feel better about Maye than I do McCarthy and I like McCarthy. I just think Maye has top 5-7 QB upside and I'm willing to gamble our 1st next year to let Daboll/Kafka work on trying to get him there. I don't see the same ceiling with JJ. Even his biggest supporters like Sy see his upside as developing into a player like Kirk Cousins.
I'm not.
And if McCarthy and keep the #1 pick is my fallback, that's not terrible at all (and you want the Pats to think that way too).
Was Eli plus a 1st and whatever else better than Ben Roethlisburger plus a 2nd and whatever (supposedly to offer to move down to 7 from 4) 20 years ago?
These are great questions....
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here is a question... are we sure Maye > McCarthy + 2025 #1?
I'm not.
And if McCarthy and keep the #1 pick is my fallback, that's not terrible at all (and you want the Pats to think that way too).
Am I sure? No. But I feel better about Maye than I do McCarthy and I like McCarthy. I just think Maye has top 5-7 QB upside and I'm willing to gamble our 1st next year to let Daboll/Kafka work on trying to get him there. I don't see the same ceiling with JJ. Even his biggest supporters like Sy see his upside as developing into a player like Kirk Cousins.
Sy said JJM's ceiling player comparison was Joe Burrow actually. JJM does have elite qb upside, just different than Maye. That 2025 1st could potentially get us a better WR prospect than MHJ or Nabers or Odunze in McMillan.
I'm not.
And if McCarthy and keep the #1 pick is my fallback, that's not terrible at all (and you want the Pats to think that way too).
Exactly. If we give up 2025 #1 for Maye, he better be head and shoulders better than McCarthy.
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In comment 16486173 Eric from BBI said:
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here is a question... are we sure Maye > McCarthy + 2025 #1?
I'm not.
And if McCarthy and keep the #1 pick is my fallback, that's not terrible at all (and you want the Pats to think that way too).
Am I sure? No. But I feel better about Maye than I do McCarthy and I like McCarthy. I just think Maye has top 5-7 QB upside and I'm willing to gamble our 1st next year to let Daboll/Kafka work on trying to get him there. I don't see the same ceiling with JJ. Even his biggest supporters like Sy see his upside as developing into a player like Kirk Cousins.
Sy said JJM's ceiling player comparison was Joe Burrow actually. JJM does have elite qb upside, just different than Maye. That 2025 1st could potentially get us a better WR prospect than MHJ or Nabers or Odunze in McMillan.
Can you point to where he said this? I specifically asked this question on his QB rankings thread and he replied saying something like "think a more clutch version of Kirk Cousins"
Kraft reportedly only met personally with JJM out of all the prospects. He's supposedly been extremely loud about his love for JJM. Anything could happen, but the media reports about Maye to NE seem like a lot of hype to drive the price of a trade up when word is getting out that NE wants JJM > Maye.
Sorry don't buy it.
They have a crying need at QB.
You take the guy you love at #3 and don't mess around.
If they really wanted Maye, they wouldn't be doing any of this.
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quite buy that the Pats have JJM over Maye. Maybe it's close enough that for a haul they'd move down while still securing JJ but until I see them take JJ at 3, I remain skeptical
Kraft reportedly only met personally with JJM out of all the prospects. He's supposedly been extremely loud about his love for JJM. Anything could happen, but the media reports about Maye to NE seem like a lot of hype to drive the price of a trade up when word is getting out that NE wants JJM > Maye.
Mind would be blown if Pats don't take McCarthy. I think it's almost a given at this point.
How they maximize the return via a trade down while still securing JJ is the biggest question right now.
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In comment 16486179 Strahan91 said:
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In comment 16486173 Eric from BBI said:
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here is a question... are we sure Maye > McCarthy + 2025 #1?
I'm not.
And if McCarthy and keep the #1 pick is my fallback, that's not terrible at all (and you want the Pats to think that way too).
Am I sure? No. But I feel better about Maye than I do McCarthy and I like McCarthy. I just think Maye has top 5-7 QB upside and I'm willing to gamble our 1st next year to let Daboll/Kafka work on trying to get him there. I don't see the same ceiling with JJ. Even his biggest supporters like Sy see his upside as developing into a player like Kirk Cousins.
Sy said JJM's ceiling player comparison was Joe Burrow actually. JJM does have elite qb upside, just different than Maye. That 2025 1st could potentially get us a better WR prospect than MHJ or Nabers or Odunze in McMillan.
Can you point to where he said this? I specifically asked this question on his QB rankings thread and he replied saying something like "think a more clutch version of Kirk Cousins"
3. JJ McCarthy – Michigan – 6’2 / 219
Grade: 84
Junior entry. Two-year starter, La. Grange, IL. An accomplished lacrosse and hockey player in high school, McCarthy spent one season as a backup before winning the starting job in 2022 and eventually ascending to a National Champion and Manning Award finalist. He went 27-1 as a starter and set program single-season records in interception rate and completion percentage. Playing in a pro-style offense under Jim Harbaugh that was built on a power run game, McCarthy did not have the carry the team week in, week out. His drop back volume and overall need to spray it all over the field was did not reach the level of most others at the position. When it mattered, however, he showed clutch genes and dependable play. McCarthy is a very mature 21-year-old that is still only scratching the surface of what he can become. Focusing on what he does well in big moments on the national stage under the big lights gives the notion he can handle the pressure, literally and figuratively, of leading a team from under center. The fact he did not have to throw the ball as often can leave his projection a bit gray. However, considering how much this position is based on what goes on between the ears along with an ability to be a dual threat, McCarthy is set up for success at the next level and has several key variables made clear.
*I was asked a few times during the fall and December where McCarthy would go in the 2024 Draft if he were to come out. I said day two more times than I can count. Before the deep dive into all of his film from 2023 AND 2022, that is what his game looked like from the casual onlooker. I thought (and still think) he was best suited to return to school and be the unquestioned #1 overall guy in 2025. When he declared, I went all in on his film and came out with him being the #3 guy in this class. You want to know who was the best in class against pressure? McCarthy. What about the best on third + fourth down? McCarthy. What about protecting the football? McCarthy. Who’s played the most football in a pro-style offense? McCarthy. It was not enough to put him ahead of the other two, but I do think he is the number three guy and the most realistic option for NYG at 6 if they stay put. Now the question is, do you trade up for him to avoid getting leapfrogged by MIN? It is a tough call. NYG is not a quarterback away and they need the resources (draft picks) to build this thing long term. McCarthy is good, but I would not label him special. After a long time pondering, I came away saying I would not give anything more than a third-round pick to move up for him and my preference is to not trade up at all.
NFL Comparison: Rich Gannon / RET
NFL Ceiling: Joe Burrow / CIN
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quite buy that the Pats have JJM over Maye. Maybe it's close enough that for a haul they'd move down while still securing JJ but until I see them take JJ at 3, I remain skeptical
Kraft reportedly only met personally with JJM out of all the prospects. He's supposedly been extremely loud about his love for JJM. Anything could happen, but the media reports about Maye to NE seem like a lot of hype to drive the price of a trade up when word is getting out that NE wants JJM > Maye.
Link? All I've seen is an interview where JJ mentions meeting Kraft, nothing about Maye not meeting him. Then there's all the reports from the Pats beat guys like:
"@tomecurran Expect the Patriots to take Drake Maye at number three tonight unless someone - Vikings or Giants - makes them an offer they just can’t refuse."
From Chad Graff who covers them for The Athletic:
"It’s been clear for a couple of months that the Patriots really want to land a quarterback they can build around in this draft. Their top decision-makers haven’t run from that. But what has become clearer in recent days is how high the Patriots are on Maye, whom they view as a close-to-ideal fit for the offense they want to run. If he’s available, they probably hang up on Minnesota and make Maye the pick at No. 3. They’ve made it clear to the Vikings that it would take some wild offer to get them off their spot at No. 3 because of how badly they want a quarterback and how much they like Maye."
Exactly. The only big deficit with Cousins is that he doesnt win big/playoff games.
No thanks. Hang up the phone.
You're not an idiot. I also agree with your previous post. At this point, I'm out on any move up, unless the cost is no more than a second next year or our third this year. That's it. Otherwise, just stay at #6 and pick, or trade down if someone makes a terrific offer.
If they wanted Maye, the would not be shopping the pick.
(BTW, you do realize that Sy did a video on why McCarthy is better than Maye, right?)
If they wanted Maye, the would not be shopping the pick.
(BTW, you do realize that Sy did a video on why McCarthy is better than Maye, right?)
I'll come back to this when they take Maye at 3 later tonight :)
Yes, I've seen the video. I know Sy likes JJM over Maye but the reasons have little to do with upside but how much needs to be fixed for Maye. That's totally fair, I just prefer the guy with the superior tools. Think Tua vs. Herbert in 2020 as an example
I'm not.
And if McCarthy and keep the #1 pick is my fallback, that's not terrible at all (and you want the Pats to think that way too).
I'm not either. I'm not even sure that JJM > Nix or Penix + picks from a trade down + picks given up to go up to #4.
This!
Stick to your guns, Joe!
But again, that makes none of this make sense.
But again, that makes none of this make sense.
they arent taking maye... i agree with you. this noise isnt because they like maye... why make noise? they are trying to trade pick IMO but are gauging how far they can move back. iddeally they want to be at 6 and take JJM plus the picks but clearly they are worried chargers trade out.
personally..i think they stay put and take JJM or that 3 way deal happens...
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but no way am I giving the Patriots my #1 pick in 2025 at this point.
No thanks. Hang up the phone.
You're not an idiot. I also agree with your previous post. At this point, I'm out on any move up, unless the cost is no more than a second next year or our third this year. That's it. Otherwise, just stay at #6 and pick, or trade down if someone makes a terrific offer.
Well put.
I would say to the Patriots. You can have our 3 or AZ can have our 3. The Patriots should say no thanks because of the risk the LAC trades out of 5 and they lose JJM. Great if they say yes. AZ should say yes since they will get a great WR at 6 either way.
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quite buy that the Pats have JJM over Maye. Maybe it's close enough that for a haul they'd move down while still securing JJ but until I see them take JJ at 3, I remain skeptical
Sorry don't buy it.
They have a crying need at QB.
You take the guy you love at #3 and don't mess around.
If they really wanted Maye, they wouldn't be doing any of this.
Same goes for JJm, if they really want him they won’t be considering offers to trade back. Either you think he’s the guy or you don’t
Even if the Pats were open to dealing, the price will be high because the Vikings love Maye too, I’m told. And not everyone in the Giants org. thinks giving up assets to trade for a QB makes sense when they could use those assets to build around the QB they already have.
… I don’t think the Giants would trade up for QB J.J. McCarthy. I don’t even think they would take him at 6, though I can’t rule it out given the amount of time they invested in him during the pre-draft process. Even McCarthy indicated he thinks the Giants will take him. …
Ultimately, I believe the Giants will stay at 6 and take the No. 1 WR they so desperately need. It’s a toss up between LSU’s Malik Nabers and Washington’s Rome Odunze, but I think Nabers is a better prospect and a better fit for Brian Daboll’s scheme. He’s my pick at 6. …
This was my reaction. At this point I assume most media rumors are planted to serve a purpose
No thanks. Hang up the phone.
And they wont.
Yes we're quite aware of how the owner feels about Jones.
Even if the Pats were open to dealing, the price will be high because the Vikings love Maye too, I’m told. And not everyone in the Giants org. thinks giving up assets to trade for a QB makes sense when they could use those assets to build around the QB they already have.
… I don’t think the Giants would trade up for QB J.J. McCarthy. I don’t even think they would take him at 6, though I can’t rule it out given the amount of time they invested in him during the pre-draft process. Even McCarthy indicated he thinks the Giants will take him. …
Ultimately, I believe the Giants will stay at 6 and take the No. 1 WR they so desperately need. It’s a toss up between LSU’s Malik Nabers and Washington’s Rome Odunze, but I think Nabers is a better prospect and a better fit for Brian Daboll’s scheme. He’s my pick at 6. …
.. One last thing with the Giants: It depends on how the board falls, but I think there’s a better chance of the Giants trading down in the 1st round than up. Too many variables to predict a name and spot, but trading down might even put a QB back in