To you who have read my game threads, you know my normal disclaimer. Feel free to add your own thoughts, argue with mine, etc...
Though we did not manage to move up to 3 to draft Drake Maye it seemed to be confirmed by both Asshats and beats alike that we did try. Unfortunately, it seems that New England's price was too high so we passed. Some are happy about that, some are not.
This brings us to pick 6 where things seemingly had fell our way. Nabers, Odunze and McCarthy were all available. For those who liked McCarthy him sitting there at 6 was a dream scenario, we'd be able to get a QB without wasting picks to move up. Unfortunately for that crowd we had a question answered, no, apparently the Giants did not like J.J. McCarthy and the pick was Malik Nabers, making many mock drafters feel smart as he was the most common pick in most mocks all off-season.
As is typical with me, I react, think things over and write these threads, so here we are Friday morning with a new toy. How do I feel?
For starters, I did like McCarthy and felt he had as good as a chance of any to be a franchise QB, I also felt he had a skill set Daboll could work with. I was a little shocked we didn't take him, but in retrospect we likely wouldn't have driven so hard for Maye (my top choice) if we liked McCarthy too. We didn't take him, its done and its over.
Nabers is a great player, if we weren't going to take a QB I think we all knew the options were WR or trade down. I would have supported a trade down too, but agree that Nabers is a blue chip talent. There is an argument we should have taken the QB, there is an argument we should have traded down, but there isn't an argument that Nabers wasn't well worth this pick. He was a very good player for LSU and I feel he will be here too, he also fits our offensive system very well.
While I can speak glowingly about Nabers I felt let down by this pick. As I thought about it, the realization that this signified we'd have to sit through at least one more season as Daniel Jones as QB and that's what was bringing a negative air to this as a fan. Schoen was quick to mention how Daniel was excited about Malik in his presser, I think that was a massive gaff on his part as I'm not sure he/Mara realize how ready this franchise is to move on from Jones.
Many have questioned who's going to throw Nabers the ball, this is a valid question. Bad OL or not, when Jones was playing last year, you can go back to the film and find him missing open receivers all over the place. However draft picks are long term, so if we get a new QB next season, he'll have at least 4 years of Nabers.
The end of the day is that this pick is both good and bad:
Its good because he's a good player with the potential to be great, I have 0 issues with his talent and he could have gone 4th to AZ without anyone batting an eye.
Its bad because of what I said above, there's remnants to an old regime all over this roster with the biggest and most impactful being Daniel Jones. Nabers pick means Jones survives another year, or at least likely does (Do we love Rattler/Milton???).
Moving forward, this kid is good, he's going to make plays, he's fun to watch. Unfortunately he's being tied by many of us, myself very much included, to the reality that we're looking at another season of crappy football. Usually after the draft hope is the highest and for fans of bottom dwelling teams like the Giants have been, this is usually the only time of year we can feel good. We don't have that this year because we know Jones will be throwing him the ball.
The good news for those who don't want to see Jones play another snap is that replacing him was clearly on Joe's mind or they wouldn't have tried to trade up for Maye. It's just going to be interesting to see what the long term QB strategy is. If they think they can develop a day 2 or 3 guy, I'd support them making the pick.
Nabers will be a star if we can get someone to throw him the ball, that's the bottom line here.
This Daniel Jones era of being a Giants fan is the worst of my lifetime. And it seems like it’ll never end.
In dating terms, this whole process and round 1 was a major dick tease from the franchise to fans. People were done with Jones before this, I can’t imagine the pressure that will be on all of them now after their usual 0-2 start and crappy September/October.
Nabers is a great talent, but this draft is deepest at that position. There is really no option at QB now that will bring much hope, which is exactly what they needed to bring into the building.
At least with drafting a QB you have a fresh feeling and optimism even if next year doesn’t bring a bunch of wins. This year we have a potential elite weapon but likely not a lot of wins and a bit of a hangover on the team knowing we have no answer at QB right now.
That said, let’s go big blue. Build one step at a time.
This is a massively strategic move too.. The Giants are not going to pay top dollar for positions they fell can be handled with cheaper health talent. Im looking RB too.
DEfense wins championships.
"While I can speak glowingly about Nabers I felt let down by this pick. As I thought about it, the realization that this signified we'd have to sit through at least one more season as Daniel Jones as QB and that's what was bringing a negative air to this as a fan."
This is a massively strategic move too.. The Giants are not going to pay top dollar for positions they fell can be handled with cheaper health talent. Im looking RB too.
DEfense wins championships.
No. Maholmes wins championships. Teams with Daniel Jones as a starting QB do not. I'm having a real hard time being excited about this pick knowing that the seemlingy never ending saga of Daniel Jones is going to continue for yet another year. Why even watch? We aren't going anywhere....again.
"While I can speak glowingly about Nabers I felt let down by this pick. As I thought about it, the realization that this signified we'd have to sit through at least one more season as Daniel Jones as QB and that's what was bringing a negative air to this as a fan."
Check the tenses. As I state I normally do, I wrote this after calming down from my initial reaction.
I "Felt" meaning last night, but this morning I'm realizing that what bothered me at the time wasn't Nabers, it was knowing what this means long term.
I like Nabers, he'll be more than fine here. I can objectively say I don't want to watch Jones behind center anymore.
This Daniel Jones era of being a Giants fan is the worst of my lifetime. And it seems like it’ll never end.
100% agree with this. I literally had more fun as a fan watching Dave Brown, Kent Graham, Danny K etc... The Daniel Jones era sucks, and it sucks harder knowing it seemingly will never ever end.
"While I can speak glowingly about Nabers I felt let down by this pick. As I thought about it, the realization that this signified we'd have to sit through at least one more season as Daniel Jones as QB and that's what was bringing a negative air to this as a fan."
It is not emotional or reactionary to reflect on one's emotions from the previous day...it's emotionally intelligent :)
Given all of that, there are talented WRs all over the place in this draft. We can't get someone of Nabers' talent, but we could get a guy who would immediately upgrade our WR corp.
The question for me is this - would we be better off with McCarthy/Penix and Adonai Michell/Keon Coleman or Jones and Nabers? Schoen and Daboll seem to have chosen the latter.
It was clear from the presser and the discussion of Jones that he is not going anywhere this year. Contrary to what many have said - including Eric - the Giants are not done with Jones. He is still very much the starting QB of this team as soon as healthy.
As a fan who is sick of losing, the thought of more Giants games with Jones under center trying desperately to get the team to 17 points is depressing as shit. I've seen that movie too many times before and it is maddeningly bad.
The scary thing about the injury concerns are they won't go away even if he plays well, specifically because they're to his neck. One shot and that can be it for him.
This has been the line with Jones for 3 years. Next year is always the final shot.
Do you see a fixed offensive line and weapons aplenty on offense on this roster? Well no, so we can use your argument again in April 2025.
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It’s crazy how one season everything changes regarding Jones. The only concern I have is his injury history. This is the most mismanaged QB in the league. He has literally had a garbage line and zero great wide receivers throughout his whole career. Give this guy one more season. If he sucks this year, move on. If not everyone’s tune will change like it always does here.
The scary thing about the injury concerns are they won't go away even if he plays well, specifically because they're to his neck. One shot and that can be it for him.
Yes; but clearly they feel confident he will be fine. I’m just saying everyone wants that sexy new toy to be in awe over. 2 seasons ago when he was winning a playoff game with absolutely zero offensive wide receivers everyone was excited. I’m just saying it’s better to give it one more shot with a legitimate number 1 receiver then just give up.
However, I also found myself lamenting the fact that we would be passing on the WR if we took the QB.
The Giants had to get the QB and the WR. They came away with part of the solution. If they had whiffed on the QB, they would have been left holding the bag with nothing.
Was it the safe play? Yes.
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It’s crazy how one season everything changes regarding Jones. The only concern I have is his injury history. This is the most mismanaged QB in the league. He has literally had a garbage line and zero great wide receivers throughout his whole career. Give this guy one more season. If he sucks this year, move on. If not everyone’s tune will change like it always does here.
This has been the line with Jones for 3 years. Next year is always the final shot.
Do you see a fixed offensive line and weapons aplenty on offense on this roster? Well no, so we can use your argument again in April 2025.
They signed competent offensive linemen and got a number one receiver. They have a decent amount of complementary receivers now. There would no longer be an excuse next year. But this should be his best chance to actually have confidence in his receivers.
"While I can speak glowingly about Nabers I felt let down by this pick. As I thought about it, the realization that this signified we'd have to sit through at least one more season as Daniel Jones as QB and that's what was bringing a negative air to this as a fan."
You are aware he wants Giants to win , right ?
However, I also found myself lamenting the fact that we would be passing on the WR if we took the QB.
The Giants had to get the QB and the WR. They came away with part of the solution. If they had whiffed on the QB, they would have been left holding the bag with nothing.
Was it the safe play? Yes.
So next year, everyone is in with forcing the QB pick? Or does that remain a bad strategy next year too?
It is hard for me to be excited about Jones possibly starting and the narrative that we can still build around him. That is just stupid BUT, maybe our only true option was Drake Maye and when it didn't work out we had nowhere to go. I suspect New England would have been ok with JJM later if they got a ton for #3 or maybe even Penix but they wanted the world to move down- or maybe they played a game to see if someone would offer everything to move up.. Regardless we tried- I do believe Schoen and Daboll had a plan and have their rankings and when it didn't work out they took "their" BPA at an obvious need position.
However, I still hope Drew Lock wins the job so we can avoid any Jones injury piece or, if the heavens align, maybe he starts out well- not great but well and a team with serious contention plans suffers a QB injury and we can move Jones and plan for our 2025 QB offseason. That seems to be where we are at..
The Giants WR group is vastly different this off season than it was all last year. Nabers can be the guy that pulls coverage his way, Hyatt pulls coverage deep and WDR gets open underneath..
Overall, I have to hope the SUM of the parts (team) are worth more than the negative of ONE part/Quarterback. If we can mask some things we could see improvement.
If Jones is trotted out there as the QB then the expectation on him has to be 25 passing TDs at minimum and at least 8-10pts more per game...
Today we see how good Schoen is- with some movement here we could acquire a few more picks in 2024- get some DB help, DL help, RB and maybe a TE/S/or another WR with size.
- Things were starting to click with Nabers
- Those 2 OL injuries killed us - we'll be healthier next year
- We were in the hunt late in the year, if 2 close games went our way we would've gotten the 7 seed
- Too many questions about the QB prospects and too expensive to move up
However, I also found myself lamenting the fact that we would be passing on the WR if we took the QB.
The Giants had to get the QB and the WR. They came away with part of the solution. If they had whiffed on the QB, they would have been left holding the bag with nothing.
Was it the safe play? Yes.
Eric, I get all this and I do really like Nabers. I just think it stinks that we have to watch another year of a Jones lead team.
We're in year 3 of a rebuild with at least one more to go. We all knew it, but this years draft made us confront it rather than giving us our standard couple weeks of feeling like things may get better.
Stunning that 6 quarterbacks went in 12 picks, but we'll find out pretty quickly about Penix (who had him going before McCarthy?), McCarthy, and Nix.
All three are going to play.
I'm pretty confident, barring injury, Nabers is going to be a stud. I don't know about those other three.
Also, the draft is 7 rounds, and they are still in smokescreen mode/not saying much w/DJ. Status quo for draft mode.
Anything can happen.
Maybe they are trading Slayton and #47 to move up to draft Rattler or something? Jump LVR.
Or wait till rd4 for Milton. Who knows :)
That all said, and everyone here knows I am not a Jones' apologist, he did take this team to the playoffs in 2022 with a bad offensive line, no weapons, and a bad defense. It is not impossible that the Giants are 9-8 next year with Jones.
On the flip side, he also could be done for his career with a third neck injury and us getting hit with another $23 million cap charge.
Also, the draft is 7 rounds, and they are still in smokescreen mode/not saying much w/DJ. Status quo for draft mode.
Anything can happen.
Maybe they are trading Slayton and #47 to move up to draft Rattler or something? Jump LVR.
Or wait till rd4 for Milton. Who knows :)
I don't think so. I think Devito is your 3rd string development guy and quite frankly is probably better than Rattler at this point. I suspect 2025 is what we are looking at- moving the $$$$ off the books for Jones..
If Jones by some miracle gets a whole lot better then you still get a QB to develop but regardless we will be going QB next off season no matter what.
In a very deep QB draft and picking 6, the Giants didn't see a guy they like. There is a very high likelihod that next year getting a QB does not get easier because there are much better prospects and we are picking much higher.
How many years can you not try to get a QB when you don't have one? Can we pass in 2025 and 2026? If we still don't have a guy do you extend Jones?
In a very deep QB draft and picking 6, the Giants didn't see a guy they like. There is a very high likelihod that next year getting a QB does not get easier because there are much better prospects and we are picking much higher.
How many years can you not try to get a QB when you don't have one? Can we pass in 2025 and 2026? If we still don't have a guy do you extend Jones?
I think the real question is what did the Giants think of Penix, Nix, JJM - I suspect two of them were NOT 1st rd grades. I mean the Broncos had no choice and if they didn't take Nix I suspect he slides out of RD 1. The Falcons screwed the Raiders by going Penix- and possibly screwed themselves in the process.
The JJM talk with the Giants was probably real if Nabers had been picked before us but once the Chargers went Alt you take the guy rated much higher than anyone else.
I don't like it, I really wanted the HOPE of a new QB but maybe this is the right course of action..
That all said, and everyone here knows I am not a Jones' apologist, he did take this team to the playoffs in 2022 with a bad offensive line, no weapons, and a bad defense. It is not impossible that the Giants are 9-8 next year with Jones.
On the flip side, he also could be done for his career with a third neck injury and us getting hit with another $23 million cap charge.
I very much hope the QB competition is open as well, if DeVito plays best, start him. Its one reason why I was a little disheartened by Schoen mentioning Jones in the presser, talking about calling him before the pick. It seems to indicate they still view him as the starter as there was no mention of Lock or DeVito getting a call.
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Since Maye was going to sit and learn, weren't we going to get another year of DJ anyway, if we were able to trade for Maye?
Also, the draft is 7 rounds, and they are still in smokescreen mode/not saying much w/DJ. Status quo for draft mode.
Anything can happen.
Maybe they are trading Slayton and #47 to move up to draft Rattler or something? Jump LVR.
Or wait till rd4 for Milton. Who knows :)
I don't think so. I think Devito is your 3rd string development guy and quite frankly is probably better than Rattler at this point. I suspect 2025 is what we are looking at- moving the $$$$ off the books for Jones..
If Jones by some miracle gets a whole lot better then you still get a QB to develop but regardless we will be going QB next off season no matter what.
I hear you, and I liked Tommy, but he was UFA and everyone thinks he's trash lol. He would be cut if we got Maye, right? But he's tough and can make more than 1 read, so I'm with you on being developmental. But what's the ceiling? So what's the point?
Still don't think it is out of the question that DJ gets benched for the injury thing. the BBBanter guys said they were trying to move up for Caleb too, so DJ is toast ASAP. (could be 1 year, could be Monday lol)
In a very deep QB draft and picking 6, the Giants didn't see a guy they like. There is a very high likelihod that next year getting a QB does not get easier because there are much better prospects and we are picking much higher.
How many years can you not try to get a QB when you don't have one? Can we pass in 2025 and 2026? If we still don't have a guy do you extend Jones?
I hear you, but I've also personally speculated that this QB class may be overrated. I'm a nobody. I don't even watch that much college football. But I read a ton on the prospects and this class made me nervous.
It's going to be fascinating how Nabers does vis a vis the three QBs taken after him. As I said, I have no doubts in Nabers.
Where do we get our QB? That's the million dollar question. My guess it will be in the middle of round one next year.
Stunning that 6 quarterbacks went in 12 picks, but we'll find out pretty quickly about Penix (who had him going before McCarthy?), McCarthy, and Nix.
All three are going to play.
I'm pretty confident, barring injury, Nabers is going to be a stud. I don't know about those other three.
Penix is not going to play right away. The Falcons literally just signed Kirk Cousins to a huge deal. That pick makes absolutely no sense and wreaks of the Falcons being far too cute. I’m guessing they wanted to trade out, hoping they’d get a haul from a team looking for a QB and when they couldn’t get it done, they decided teach those teams a lesson and take the guy they were hoping would fall to them later. That’s the only explanation I can think of.
If he sucks this year, everyone is getting fired. As Eric likes to remind us full resets set everything back by a couple of years.
Jones falling flat (again) means the Giants aren't going to be competitive until probably 2027.
it is clear after yesterday Maye was the QB3 in this draft to not only NYG and NE but also MIN. anyone who thought there was a realistic chance that NE wouldn't take their QB3 or better at that spot was deluding themselves.
Mike am i remembering correctly that you've been crapping on JJM for the last 6 months or so? if he was their QB4 would you prefer they forced the pick on a guy you dont even like?
it is clear after yesterday Maye was the QB3 in this draft to not only NYG and NE but also MIN. anyone who thought there was a realistic chance that NE wouldn't take their QB3 or better at that spot was deluding themselves.
Mike am i remembering correctly that you've been crapping on JJM for the last 6 months or so? if he was their QB4 would you prefer they forced the pick on a guy you dont even like?
This is exactly what happened. The real issue here is we don't like it. But this was always the reality. They wanted Maye. McCarthy was a smokescreen. The WR was going to be "consolation prize." They actually probably talked up McCarthy to get the Patriots to move PLUS to have Nabers fall.
Like I said, Nabers is a great player. The argument is that there are far more solutions available at WR than there are at QB.
Maybe Schoen and Daboll were given Mara's blessing to move forward with a long leash and without pressure. To that I say, let's wait until October when we're 1-5 and Jones looks lost again and Daboll is fuming on the sidelines, then we'll see what things look like. It ain't gonna be good.
Like I said, Nabers is a great player. The argument is that there are far more solutions available at WR than there are at QB.
Maybe Schoen and Daboll were given Mara's blessing to move forward with a long leash and without pressure. To that I say, let's wait until October when we're 1-5 and Jones looks lost again and Daboll is fuming on the sidelines, then we'll see what things look like. It ain't gonna be good.
Unless you think the Giants were putting on a show for the fans in their "attempt" to trade up, then the team knows they have a QB issue.