I was wrong. I thought this was a QB draft. I haven't been invested in a draft like this since 2004. It made sense to me that Schoen & Daboll would take the opportunity to draft a lottery QB this year. But, Schoen always has talked about sticking to his process. That's exactly what he did.
There are some posters I need to credit who I've challenged in the lead up.
christian - you were spot on. Schoen didn't change course so quickly after the Jones contract last year.
bw - Yes, I now completely agree with you that Jones is Schoen's guy. I'm tired of the Mara narrative. I don't believe Mara was vetoing any QB pick.
Ryan - great call with McCarthy. You felt it was smoke since day 1.
So, where does this leave the team? Schoen said last night he's happy to have a cost controlled WR for 5 years with Nabers talent. It's as simple as that.
I think Schoen did try to get Maye. I believe he offered a 2025 first as well. But, ultimately he told us the following:
-He likes Jones/Lock more than Penix.
-He likes Jones/Lock more than McCarthy.
-He likes Jones/Lock more than Nix.
Of the 15 first round grades, I assume the only 3 which had first round grades at QB were Williams, Daniels & Maye.
The Jones contract was always consequential. It was a significant contract. This wasn't a cheap deal and the 2 year out still has a $22M dead cap charge. When Schoen said he trusted his process, there was no reason to not believe him. This is where I was wrong. The contract was significant enough and the prior medical issues not concerning enough to change course so soon.
I do think Lock has a chance to start. Schneider had no reason to lie - the Seahawks wanted him back. So, I expect a QB competition, but Lock will have to clearly outperform Jones with Jones clearly struggling. I wouldn't bank on it, but I think Lock will have his chance.
I no longer think Schoen is in any trouble to lose his job. I think he's got ownership buy in and taking a slower and more methodical approach. I respect guys like Sy, JonC and The_Mike a great deal, all of which see the value in a WR1 here. I don't think Schoen is getting fired any time soon.
Where to go at QB from here? I've got no idea. It will be fascinating to see if Jones gets restructured. If he doesn't, I do think that is telling. Unlike some on BBI, I don't think the QB position "takes care of itself" - it's going to be a big challenge. Increasingly, I think the next QB will be a veteran starter. After the Penix pick, I could see Kirk Cousins in 2025. Dak Prescott. Someone like that.
Lastly, the positive I can come up with - the Knicks build. Leon Rose often got criticized for being too patient and not doing enough. Well, now I think this is going to be a longer build and Schoen will be patient. It's clear he wanted Maye but he's not going to force anything else and stick to the board. Will that patience ultimately pay off? We'll see. But, Schoen has a process it seems.
"Man we really wanted to move on from Daniel but the Patriots just asked for way too much"
I mean c'mon, you can't be that naive
+1
Not gonna lie, things were getting bananas around here leading up to this draft. The conjecture, conspiracy theories, and ultimatums thrown around here every day were exhausting.
People who i figure were good posters jumped to so many conclusions vehemently it made this place not enjoyable.
Now that round 1 is over, it's good to take a step back. I think you nailed 1 thing about Schoen...the guy is ALL about the process. Period. This is a staff that takes calculated risks, but always believing in the process that gets them to those conclusions.
Eventually process is going to lead to wins...hopefully sooner than later.
Buckle up; I think Schoen has until the 2026 offseason to make this work.
Whether you agree with it or not, it really is this simple.
Unless you think the attempted trade up for Maye was a PR stunt, they know they have a QB problem. (BTW, such a PR stunt only hurts the psyche of Jones so I really doubt that was the play).
They had 15 players graded as first round talents. The only three QBs who they had graded were Williams, Daniels, and Maye.
Yep. The 'we should have reached to over draft a QB' crowd isn't happy today. Oh well.
I think he has a plan, its just a crappy one (in today's NFL)
He's going about things like this is a 4-5 year process.
These days, if you can't turn things around in 2 years, you suck at your job.
Quickest way forward is to get the QB position right.
Apparently, John (who has ZERO qualifications), doesn't understand that.
I believe Schoen knows Mara's preferences and leanings, but I don't believe Mara nixed any trade Schoen wanted to make. I think Schoen is very comfortable with Jones being the plan at QB until he isn't.
Where I differ is about Lock. There is no QB competition. They did not pay Jones what they did and pass on QB to give Jones' job away. If he is physically able to play he is the starter on this team and Lock is his backup. There is no competition unless Jones is a complete wreck in camp.
-He likes Jones/Lock more than McCarthy.
-He likes Jones/Lock more than Nix."
What it tells you is the Giants feel the team is better with Jones/Lock and Nabors for 2024 than any of your three options without Nabors. I think the #6 pick was more a commentary on Nabors than it was on those three QB's. I still think the Giants believe QB needs to be addressed but likely now not this year and Nabors proved too high potential to pass up for any of those QBs (that they may like more than Jones/Lock).
and [this is speculation] the cost to move up and get a QB they wanted was more than they were willing to pay
agreed - i dont know why so much time gets wasted on narratives. they arent writing a movie script, they are spending a tremendous amount of time evaluating and ranking players. it seems clear from yesterday this was how they had it ranked and they stuck to it.
Buckle up; I think Schoen has until the 2026 offseason to make this work.
If that's the case, I'd expect a Jones restructure. If not, he'll have to earn 2025 imo. It's clear though many on BBI were more concerned about Jones than Schoen.
They liked JJM, just not more than Nabers
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With him out of reach they were all in on Nabers. BPA.
Whether you agree with it or not, it really is this simple.
Unless you think the attempted trade up for Maye was a PR stunt, they know they have a QB problem. (BTW, such a PR stunt only hurts the psyche of Jones so I really doubt that was the play).
They had 15 players graded as first round talents. The only three QBs who they had graded were Williams, Daniels, and Maye.
I don't think they see themselves as having a QB problem. I think they saw an opportunity to get an elite QB prospect to replace their "good enough to win with" QB.
I take Schoen at his word that they are ok with the QB room they have in 2024.
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Seems more and more likely to me barring an absolute meltdown in 2024. I don't see them handing out huge dollars for Dak after already handing out huge dollars for Jones and presumably eating a 22 million dead cap hit. If they do bring it a rookie in 25', I still think they go into the season with Jones as starter initially to play out his contract.
Buckle up; I think Schoen has until the 2026 offseason to make this work.
If that's the case, I'd expect a Jones restructure. If not, he'll have to earn 2025 imo. It's clear though many on BBI were more concerned about Jones than Schoen.
I think they could potentially hold off on the restructure since his cap hit isn't as bad in 2025. I bet they would be thrilled to restructure him if he played above-average in 24 though.
It's why I think the veteran QB makes sense. But, Schoen isn't going to be on any hot seat imo. He's here for the next 5 plus years at minimum imo.
Mara is a guy who likes stability in the front office. Unless he falls flat on his face and embarrasses the franchise, I don't see Schoen going anywhere anytime soon. Daboll is different.
Let me change "happy" to "content."
I think they saw an opportunity to get better at QB with Maye. I don't think they have as big a problem there as many fans do.
"Man we really wanted to move on from Daniel but the Patriots just asked for way too much"
I mean c'mon, you can't be that naive
I dont believe they tried to get Maye. It was smoke. All it takes is for NE to say "yeah, well, we've had some talks with the Giants and Vikings for all kinds of rumors to fly and get everyone to turn on espn and keep it on. This is how the media works in America. Nobody heard shit.
I fully believe they pushed hard for Maye. But, 6 QBs taken in the top 12 and NYG wasn't one of them. What does that tell you?
I guess we'll never know, but would JJ have been the pick if the Chargers took Nabers? I doubt it.
One poster said they should have just taken a quarterback regardless. Teams don't draft a QB in the first round unless they really believe in him. McCarthy was there at #6, so that tell you how they feel about him. Pretty clear they wanted Maye.
Some others complain that it should have been Odunze, so they're feeling underwhelmed about the choice being Nabers.
Odunze? Nabers? They're both freaking great, it doesn't largely matter which of the two the Giants took, either would have been great, but you've decided to be underwhelmed. All I can say is go watch Belichick's analysis of Nabers. He's all over him.
Another complains that this is OBJ MkII. That's a reason for complaint? Okay, go get your head seen to. OBJ in his prime was an elite wide receiver.
Also, a point only a few have made: having Nabers now immediately makes Hyatt, Robinson and maybe Slayton better. It will open up the field for them.
Finally, I full acknowledge I may be wide of the mark here, but no one seems to consider that maybe Daboll can improve Drew Lock. Lock has a cannon for an arm, is erratic, but Lock throwing downfield to Nabers might be better than Jones doing so.
Anyway, on to day two. Really, some of you come across as committed to a glass half empty view of the Giants, regardless of what Schoen does. The draft has already effectively netted us Nabers and Burns. Not a bad haul so far.
^This.
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In comment 16490645 JonC said:
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With him out of reach they were all in on Nabers. BPA.
Whether you agree with it or not, it really is this simple.
Unless you think the attempted trade up for Maye was a PR stunt, they know they have a QB problem. (BTW, such a PR stunt only hurts the psyche of Jones so I really doubt that was the play).
They had 15 players graded as first round talents. The only three QBs who they had graded were Williams, Daniels, and Maye.
I don't think they see themselves as having a QB problem. I think they saw an opportunity to get an elite QB prospect to replace their "good enough to win with" QB.
I take Schoen at his word that they are ok with the QB room they have in 2024.
Couldn’t have said it better
As far as Schoen and "the process" I agree he has been given all assurances to take his time. However, the New York market will dictate, not Mara. Mara had no plans to let go of Judge until he did. And it might not be Schoen specifically, perhaps Daboll will find himself on the hot seat soon enough. Their messaging regarding QB throughout this process has been mixed and unclear.
Penix, McCarthy and Nix didn't go late round 1. They went 8, 10 and 12. It was obvious throughout this process they would. WRs to me are a dime a dozen and if you have a great one on a bad team (i.e. a team without a QB) you're still nowhere. This draft specifically has a lot of good day 2 upgrades at WR we could have dipped into.
Lastly, you brought up how I have mentioned Hooker in the past and my answer is, yes, I'd explore him as an option if the price was right. We are nowhere at the QB position. Our blue chip WR we just picked made headlines for pretty much saying so himself.
It tells me they likely had at least 2, maybe 3, QBs they were willing to move away from Jones for, but not 6.
We have a QB, you just don't like him.
can be we haven’t seen yet for a myriad of reasons.
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I personally don't think that teams happy with their QB situation try to trade up to #3 to take one.
I fully believe they pushed hard for Maye. But, 6 QBs taken in the top 12 and NYG wasn't one of them. What does that tell you?
I guess we'll never know, but would JJ have been the pick if the Chargers took Nabers? I doubt it.
Because McCarthy was clearly a smoke screen. They didn't have a 1st round grade on him.
Does that make them right? Of course not.
If Nabers was gone, the more interesting question is would they have traded down?
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We still have no QB.
We have a QB, you just don't like him.
Again, we don’t have a QB.
Acid, I would take the Mara axed the deal with a large grain of salt. Someone on a message board who I don't know told me someone at a party who he doesn't know claims to know someone inside the Giants org who gave him inside information about a trade that never actually happened. And that guy is now claiming that it would have happened but only didn't because of Mara. There's no way this can't be true, right?
You don't scout the entire QB class like the Giants did (have them visit, take them out to dinner, take full contingents to Pro Days) if you are "content" with your quarterback either.
Schoen said earlier that visiting/scouting heavily can also take guys off your board/move them down.
The only way the Giants don't address the QB position next offseason is if Jones has some sort of breakout season with no injuries.
This isn’t completely true. The team that was trying to trade up for JJM got him anyway, and traded up a spot to do so. The only QB needy team that passed on him for a non QB was the Giants.
Lots of misinformation out there. For all we know the Patriots could have been using us to drive up the price for another team
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wanted Maye. According to Stars and Stripes Schoen was willing to pay NE's asking price of multiple #1's, but Mara said it was too much. When that happened, Schoen decided that: Jones/Lock/Nabers > McCarthy, Nix, or Penix. That is a reasonable conclusion. Remember also that they apparently had an offer to trade down which they refused. That's how much they like Nabers.
Acid, I would take the Mara axed the deal with a large grain of salt. Someone on a message board who I don't know told me someone at a party who he doesn't know claims to know someone inside the Giants org who gave him inside information about a trade that never actually happened. And that guy is now claiming that it would have happened but only didn't because of Mara. There's no way this can't be true, right?
Yeah, it's very JtGiants-esque without the meltdown
You don't scout the entire QB class like the Giants did (have them visit, take them out to dinner, take full contingents to Pro Days) if you are "content" with your quarterback either.
Schoen said earlier that visiting/scouting heavily can also take guys off your board/move them down.
The only way the Giants don't address the QB position next offseason is if Jones has some sort of breakout season with no injuries.
Eric, I see your point but that’s part of the frustration. They recognize the problem and yet didn’t feel compelled enough to actually do something about it. To me, Nabers is a luxury pick. They could have leveraged a trade down and maybe still not have the QB but have some additional assets this year or next to show for it. I find it hard to believe the only solution they saw was to trade up for Drake Maye to a team that I personally never believed for one second would move off that pick. Their newly hired head coach basically said as much at his intro press conference.
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That is crystal clear. All these QB needy teams and there was not near the fireworks to get them as people thought, except --oh yeah, Maye. The guy the Giants wanted.
This isn’t completely true. The team that was trying to trade up for JJM got him anyway, and traded up a spot to do so. The only QB needy team that passed on him for a non QB was the Giants.
Yeah, they got him. They desperately tried to trade up for Maye, so that tells you something. They are a QB desperate team with 2 first round picks as ammunition sitting right along side two other QB desperate teams yet don't make a move to get ahead of us or out ahead of the other needy teams behind them until the pick right in front of them. That is a far cry from the trade up to #4 we were sold. Sound like they were at last ok to miss out if it came to that. There wan't the hot and heavy movement for JJ.