I was wrong. I thought this was a QB draft. I haven't been invested in a draft like this since 2004. It made sense to me that Schoen & Daboll would take the opportunity to draft a lottery QB this year. But, Schoen always has talked about sticking to his process. That's exactly what he did.
There are some posters I need to credit who I've challenged in the lead up.
christian - you were spot on. Schoen didn't change course so quickly after the Jones contract last year.
bw - Yes, I now completely agree with you that Jones is Schoen's guy. I'm tired of the Mara narrative. I don't believe Mara was vetoing any QB pick.
Ryan - great call with McCarthy. You felt it was smoke since day 1.
So, where does this leave the team? Schoen said last night he's happy to have a cost controlled WR for 5 years with Nabers talent. It's as simple as that.
I think Schoen did try to get Maye. I believe he offered a 2025 first as well. But, ultimately he told us the following:
-He likes Jones/Lock more than Penix.
-He likes Jones/Lock more than McCarthy.
-He likes Jones/Lock more than Nix.
Of the 15 first round grades, I assume the only 3 which had first round grades at QB were Williams, Daniels & Maye.
The Jones contract was always consequential. It was a significant contract. This wasn't a cheap deal and the 2 year out still has a $22M dead cap charge. When Schoen said he trusted his process, there was no reason to not believe him. This is where I was wrong. The contract was significant enough and the prior medical issues not concerning enough to change course so soon.
I do think Lock has a chance to start. Schneider had no reason to lie - the Seahawks wanted him back. So, I expect a QB competition, but Lock will have to clearly outperform Jones with Jones clearly struggling. I wouldn't bank on it, but I think Lock will have his chance.
I no longer think Schoen is in any trouble to lose his job. I think he's got ownership buy in and taking a slower and more methodical approach. I respect guys like Sy, JonC and The_Mike a great deal, all of which see the value in a WR1 here. I don't think Schoen is getting fired any time soon.
Where to go at QB from here? I've got no idea. It will be fascinating to see if Jones gets restructured. If he doesn't, I do think that is telling. Unlike some on BBI, I don't think the QB position "takes care of itself" - it's going to be a big challenge. Increasingly, I think the next QB will be a veteran starter. After the Penix pick, I could see Kirk Cousins in 2025. Dak Prescott. Someone like that.
Lastly, the positive I can come up with - the Knicks build. Leon Rose often got criticized for being too patient and not doing enough. Well, now I think this is going to be a longer build and Schoen will be patient. It's clear he wanted Maye but he's not going to force anything else and stick to the board. Will that patience ultimately pay off? We'll see. But, Schoen has a process it seems.
Lots of misinformation out there. For all we know the Patriots could have been using us to drive up the price for another team
Widely reported by legitimate sports reporters.
In their view, Nix, McCarthy, and Penix are far less likely to be impact players. That remains to be seen.
It's really that simple.
Just taking a position does not mean it is fixed. (Remember my list of pet peeves?)
It is not simply Jones versus the other QB's either imv. They picked the best player on their board.
There is a reason you here GM's always saying they took the BPA. Over time, that strategy works well if you execute.
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In comment 16490693 UberAlias said:
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That is crystal clear. All these QB needy teams and there was not near the fireworks to get them as people thought, except --oh yeah, Maye. The guy the Giants wanted.
This isn’t completely true. The team that was trying to trade up for JJM got him anyway, and traded up a spot to do so. The only QB needy team that passed on him for a non QB was the Giants.
Yeah, they got him. They desperately tried to trade up for Maye, so that tells you something. They are a QB desperate team with 2 first round picks as ammunition sitting right along side two other QB desperate teams yet don't make a move to get ahead of us or out ahead of the other needy teams behind them until the pick right in front of them. That is a far cry from the trade up to #4 we were sold. Sound like they were at last ok to miss out if it came to that. There wan't the hot and heavy movement for JJ.
Why would Minnesota make a move ahead of us if they only had to get to 10 to get JJM? You also have zero idea if they tried to get to 5 or 7 and were rebuffed. It’s clear 3 and 4 weren’t getting traded. What QB needy team was behind the Giants?
The Falcons just paid a QB, and obviously preffered Penix.
It could be both here. I'm sure he wanted Maye, but the cost was too prohibitive for him to gamble the team's future on it.
I wouldn’t be as worried about a QB if I thought we would only win 5 games this upcoming season. I think it will be more like 7-8. I think this team is better than last year and will have an easier schedule
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though. They clearly were in on trying to get Maye. Anything after that is up for debate but they wanted Maye. I suspect the interest in JJM was to try and cover their blatant interest in Maye..
It could be both here. I'm sure he wanted Maye, but the cost was too prohibitive for him to gamble the team's future on it.
If they traded a kings ransom for Maye, they would not have been able to build around him unless they hit on a skill player in the 3 rd this year or 2nd next
Maybe Penix straddles the categories, but his situation is complicated by injuries. I never felt NYGs solution to moving off an injury prone DJ was to draft an injury prone Penix.
In their view, Nix, McCarthy, and Penix are far less likely to be impact players. That remains to be seen.
It's really that simple.
Just taking a position does not mean it is fixed. (Remember my list of pet peeves?)
It just all depends how you define “impact”. I have no doubt Nabers will be excellent, I really don’t. Ultimately though, is an excellent wide receiver going to move the needle for a guy like Daniel Jones who was never that good to begin with and is completely shot now. Remember, Waller was supposed to help, Hyatt was supposed to help.
-Maye has a monster rookie season- Stroud like.
- Penix/ JJM/ Nix all flash major potential and play very well.
- Jones struggles badly and Nabers doesn't have a major impact.
- Neal struggles/ loses his job and KT is just okay.
- Giants win 6 games or less
You feel good about giving Schoen another offseason? I do not.
People can say whatever they want, I think they face major pressure this year to win with Jones.
A great draft shaping up for NYG future.
Supremely talented WR in Nabers. Check.
Remaining needs: CB, S, OL, DE/DT, RB, LB, TE*
15 picks to wait for our next starting CB and at least 5 are out there worth drafting.
We'll get our S here or still in FA. No worries.
We'll get an OL and probably an RB that might surprise late.
Edge is also deep and you need depth here. Hopefully we can find a contributor to spell Burns and Thibs as Oju doesn't suit up enough. Take best available DE or DT at slot Joe says.
Not a great LB draft but need serious depth here.
*Will Waller's divorce help put his mind back on football? If not, we'll have to pick one up here though it's unlikely to find one that can be a plus player. Always a nice piece of bling but not a many Kelces out there lol.
QB can wait. Sorry Jones haters. Show me an elite QB who didn't have a top OL. Ours seems improved(?) To have a top WR can put you over the top. We're not there yet, don't get me wrong. Keep building, Joe.
I'm giving Jones another season. If he's neck-injured again I'm out but if he could make the throws in 2022 he can do it now and we have a much better WR and OL rooms. OL improvement will hopefully remove some of the run plays for him as well. He's good at it but they can be career killers. Right now his legs make him valuable but mostly he has no choice because of the OL. If a talent like Barkley couldn't run behind our OL how can you expect any QB to sit in the pocket?
This is a draft. To take the leap from college starter to professional starter is huge. So many don't realize that. More than half of these college stars in rounds 1-7 will flame out within 3 years. Very few sure things out there.
-Maye has a monster rookie season- Stroud like.
- Penix/ JJM/ Nix all flash major potential and play very well.
- Jones struggles badly and Nabers doesn't have a major impact.
- Neal struggles/ loses his job and KT is just okay.
- Giants win 6 games or less
You feel good about giving Schoen another offseason? I do not.
People can say whatever they want, I think they face major pressure this year to win with Jones.
I absolutely think six wins or less with Jones struggling should send him packing. Can't use the roster excuse in year 3.
I'm happy they didn't reach for a QB that they didn't have highly rated.
this is the interesting question to ponder, if lac took nabers what was the pick? alt, odunze, or maybe jjm?
id guess odunze but im not entirely confident in that.
QB can wait. Sorry Jones haters. Show me an elite QB who didn't have a top OL.
Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes, Cj Stroud, Tom Brady, Justin Herbert, etc.
-Maye has a monster rookie season- Stroud like.
- Penix/ JJM/ Nix all flash major potential and play very well.
- Jones struggles badly and Nabers doesn't have a major impact.
- Neal struggles/ loses his job and KT is just okay.
- Giants win 6 games or less
You feel good about giving Schoen another offseason? I do not.
People can say whatever they want, I think they face major pressure this year to win with Jones.
Schoen knew that when he drafted. What if the only QB's who look like anything this year are Williams and Daniels? What if Nabers looks like a stud but Jones does not and all of the other QB options that we had a shot at look no better than Kenny Pickett or Malik Willis?
-Maye has a monster rookie season- Stroud like.
- Penix/ JJM/ Nix all flash major potential and play very well.
- Jones struggles badly and Nabers doesn't have a major impact.
- Neal struggles/ loses his job and KT is just okay.
- Giants win 6 games or less
You feel good about giving Schoen another offseason? I do not.
People can say whatever they want, I think they face major pressure this year to win with Jones.
Only thing that would salvage it for me is if they bench a struggling, but healthy Jones.
Will they face pressure from Mara? TBD. As long as Daniel doesn't completely flop and we are on the "in the hunt" graphic in December, that might be enough
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QB can wait. Sorry Jones haters. Show me an elite QB who didn't have a top OL.
Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes, Cj Stroud, Tom Brady, Justin Herbert, etc.
CJ Stroud has one of the top LT's in the game in Laremy Tunsil and other high picks on his OL. KC has spent extensively on the OL. Joe Burrow has missed lots of games due to his OL being unable to block. Herbert has won fewer playoff games than Daniel Jones.
And, yes, I'm fine with them not reaching on a QB they didn't like, but they better be right in their assessment.
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In comment 16490835 GiantHead said:
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QB can wait. Sorry Jones haters. Show me an elite QB who didn't have a top OL.
Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes, Cj Stroud, Tom Brady, Justin Herbert, etc.
CJ Stroud has one of the top LT's in the game in Laremy Tunsil and other high picks on his OL. KC has spent extensively on the OL. Joe Burrow has missed lots of games due to his OL being unable to block. Herbert has won fewer playoff games than Daniel Jones.
Daniel Jones doesn’t have one of the top LTs in the game?
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In comment 16490835 GiantHead said:
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QB can wait. Sorry Jones haters. Show me an elite QB who didn't have a top OL.
Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes, Cj Stroud, Tom Brady, Justin Herbert, etc.
CJ Stroud has one of the top LT's in the game in Laremy Tunsil and other high picks on his OL. KC has spent extensively on the OL. Joe Burrow has missed lots of games due to his OL being unable to block. Herbert has won fewer playoff games than Daniel Jones.
Daniel Jones has one of the top Left tackles in the sport. He has also never sniffed what Stroud accomplished his rookie season.
Jones has zero excuses left. None.
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In comment 16490835 GiantHead said:
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QB can wait. Sorry Jones haters. Show me an elite QB who didn't have a top OL.
Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes, Cj Stroud, Tom Brady, Justin Herbert, etc.
CJ Stroud has one of the top LT's in the game in Laremy Tunsil and other high picks on his OL. KC has spent extensively on the OL. Joe Burrow has missed lots of games due to his OL being unable to block. Herbert has won fewer playoff games than Daniel Jones.
Tom Brady had Dante Scarneccia coaching his Oline and they were pretty damn good. Mahomes has some damn good linemen too
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Don't know how anyone for certain knows if we would have taken Maye if we traded up or if we were even that serious of players?
Lots of misinformation out there. For all we know the Patriots could have been using us to drive up the price for another team
Widely reported by legitimate sports reporters.
With no named sources, no specifics. Just reporters playing on people's emotions to boost ratings. None of the teams told these reporters what they were doing. None.
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In comment 16490850 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16490835 GiantHead said:
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QB can wait. Sorry Jones haters. Show me an elite QB who didn't have a top OL.
Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes, Cj Stroud, Tom Brady, Justin Herbert, etc.
CJ Stroud has one of the top LT's in the game in Laremy Tunsil and other high picks on his OL. KC has spent extensively on the OL. Joe Burrow has missed lots of games due to his OL being unable to block. Herbert has won fewer playoff games than Daniel Jones.
Daniel Jones doesn’t have one of the top LTs in the game?
Thomas has not played a full season since his rookie year including missing 4 games in 2021 and 7 games in 2023. Tunsil has played in 4 Pro Bowls since joining Houston and played in 14 games last year (17 the year before but Stroud was not on the team then). If you ask almost every team they would take Tunsil over Thomas.
Maybe next year the next Charlie Conerly will be on the board when we pick.
One slight modification — Joe Schoen likes:
Jones/Lock/ Malik Nabers more than Penix.
Jones/Lock/ Malik Nabers more than McCarthy.
Jones/Lock/ Malik Nabers more than Nix.
The Giants are open to upgrading the QB position if they feel an upgrade is available.
The Giants are open to upgrading the QB position if they feel an upgrade is available.
Correct.
The only way the Giants don't address the QB position next offseason is if Jones has some sort of breakout season with no injuries.
I don't think I can believe that any longer.
There is another way the Giants don't address the QB position next offseasons, and that's if it unfolds just as this off-season has: there are one or two QBs in the class the Giants identify as elite, and they don't wind up in a position to draft either of them. They would then regard the other QBs as not having more potential than Jones.
The Giants are open to upgrading the QB position if they feel an upgrade is available.
The problem is too many on BBI have gone off the proverbial cliff in thinking that practically ANY QB in this draft is better or an upgrade than the alternative. It’s completely emotional now.
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The only way the Giants don't address the QB position next offseason is if Jones has some sort of breakout season with no injuries.
I don't think I can believe that any longer.
There is another way the Giants don't address the QB position next offseasons, and that's if it unfolds just as this off-season has: there are one or two QBs in the class the Giants identify as elite, and they don't wind up in a position to draft either of them. They would then regard the other QBs as not having more potential than Jones.
Exactly. And what you described is by far the most likely scenario. And that is one of the multitude of reasons why last night is so depressing
Maybe next year the next Charlie Conerly will be on the board when we pick.
It is a better plan than take a QB for the sake of taking a QB even though the scouts think he is a JAG and trade him two years later for a conditional late Day 3 pick like Pickett/Jones/Fields versus getting a player who some consider the best in the draft at an impact position. If I was the owner and you told me you were proposing dealing the 6th pick overall for a conditional late Day 3 pick in 2026 I would fire you before you even finished the phone call.
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In comment 16490769 Giantsbigblue said:
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Don't know how anyone for certain knows if we would have taken Maye if we traded up or if we were even that serious of players?
Lots of misinformation out there. For all we know the Patriots could have been using us to drive up the price for another team
Widely reported by legitimate sports reporters.
With no named sources, no specifics. Just reporters playing on people's emotions to boost ratings. None of the teams told these reporters what they were doing. None.
Did you watch the presser yesterday?
Everyone in the room knew it. And Schoen quickly wanted to move the conversation away from the topic.
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In comment 16490858 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 16490850 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16490835 GiantHead said:
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QB can wait. Sorry Jones haters. Show me an elite QB who didn't have a top OL.
Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes, Cj Stroud, Tom Brady, Justin Herbert, etc.
CJ Stroud has one of the top LT's in the game in Laremy Tunsil and other high picks on his OL. KC has spent extensively on the OL. Joe Burrow has missed lots of games due to his OL being unable to block. Herbert has won fewer playoff games than Daniel Jones.
Daniel Jones doesn’t have one of the top LTs in the game?
Thomas has not played a full season since his rookie year including missing 4 games in 2021 and 7 games in 2023. Tunsil has played in 4 Pro Bowls since joining Houston and played in 14 games last year (17 the year before but Stroud was not on the team then). If you ask almost every team they would take Tunsil over Thomas.
How does this explain Jones being a bad QB?
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In comment 16490872 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16490858 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 16490850 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16490835 GiantHead said:
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QB can wait. Sorry Jones haters. Show me an elite QB who didn't have a top OL.
Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes, Cj Stroud, Tom Brady, Justin Herbert, etc.
CJ Stroud has one of the top LT's in the game in Laremy Tunsil and other high picks on his OL. KC has spent extensively on the OL. Joe Burrow has missed lots of games due to his OL being unable to block. Herbert has won fewer playoff games than Daniel Jones.
Daniel Jones doesn’t have one of the top LTs in the game?
Thomas has not played a full season since his rookie year including missing 4 games in 2021 and 7 games in 2023. Tunsil has played in 4 Pro Bowls since joining Houston and played in 14 games last year (17 the year before but Stroud was not on the team then). If you ask almost every team they would take Tunsil over Thomas.
How does this explain Jones being a bad QB?
I am not denying that Jones is a bad QB and needs to be replaced. I am disagreeing that Stroud does not have a top OL.
Thomas has not played a full season since his rookie year including missing 4 games in 2021 and 7 games in 2023. Tunsil has played in 4 Pro Bowls since joining Houston and played in 14 games last year (17 the year before but Stroud was not on the team then). If you ask almost every team they would take Tunsil over Thomas.
Is Andrew Thomas not one of the top LTs in the NFL? The only game Thomas missed in 2022 was the final game of the season where they sat everyone so he had played a full season since his rookie year.
No more excuses for Dan.
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trying to see something easy to understand:
The Giants are open to upgrading the QB position if they feel an upgrade is available.
The problem is too many on BBI have gone off the proverbial cliff in thinking that practically ANY QB in this draft is better or an upgrade than the alternative. It’s completely emotional now.
Daniel Jones would have been QB 7 in this draft AND has a big contract. That's not emotional.
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Thomas has not played a full season since his rookie year including missing 4 games in 2021 and 7 games in 2023. Tunsil has played in 4 Pro Bowls since joining Houston and played in 14 games last year (17 the year before but Stroud was not on the team then). If you ask almost every team they would take Tunsil over Thomas.
Is Andrew Thomas not one of the top LTs in the NFL? The only game Thomas missed in 2022 was the final game of the season where they sat everyone so he had played a full season since his rookie year.
No more excuses for Dan.
and what happened when they only played 1 healthy series together in 2023?
jones record with thomas and barkley was dramatically different than without.
I think it is more accurate based on what you are saying to put it this way...
"The Giants are interested in moving on from Daniel Jones when the opportunity presents itself."
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In comment 16490893 mittenedman said:
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trying to see something easy to understand:
The Giants are open to upgrading the QB position if they feel an upgrade is available.
The problem is too many on BBI have gone off the proverbial cliff in thinking that practically ANY QB in this draft is better or an upgrade than the alternative. It’s completely emotional now.
Daniel Jones would have been QB 7 in this draft AND has a big contract. That's not emotional.
Not according to Sy's grades. He had Jones ranked about Penix and tied with Nix.
We know what Jones is, those saying we do not have not been paying attention. He is a guy who will occasionally have a big game against bad defenses. Otherwise, he is below average passer and a borderline starter. His greatest asset is his straight line speed, which is likely limited this coming year. He cannot read a defense. Why do we know this? When DeVito and Taylor actually started throwing the ball downfield we saw that guys like Robinson and Hyatt were not triple covered as some would lead you to believe. The Oline didn't look like a disaster when a career backup and UDFA actually got the ball out of their hands.
I think the Nabers pick was a very strong choice at a premium position. I applaud Schoen for not reaching for JJ if he didn't really have a top 10 grade on him. I also think the infrastructure is not in place because we do not have qb on the roster that will amplify his talents. My guess is this ends similar to OBJ and Barkley.
I think this team is at least three years away from a division title, with a new GM and head coach going all in for a qb in 26. Unfortunately I do like Schoen and Daboll, but this likely becomes a baby with the bathwater situation as Jones is a coach killer.
I think it is more accurate based on what you are saying to put it this way...
"The Giants are interested in moving on from Daniel Jones when the opportunity presents itself."
Word it however you want (and I understand why you are), but it's the same outcome. The Giants want to upgrade any position if the opportunity presents itself.
and what happened when they only played 1 healthy series together in 2023?
jones record with thomas and barkley was dramatically different than without.
Thomas is one of the best LT in the league.
If he plays a full year there are no more excuses for Jones.
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In comment 16490787 Eric from BBI said:
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In comment 16490769 Giantsbigblue said:
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Don't know how anyone for certain knows if we would have taken Maye if we traded up or if we were even that serious of players?
Lots of misinformation out there. For all we know the Patriots could have been using us to drive up the price for another team
Widely reported by legitimate sports reporters.
With no named sources, no specifics. Just reporters playing on people's emotions to boost ratings. None of the teams told these reporters what they were doing. None.
Did you watch the presser yesterday?
Everyone in the room knew it. And Schoen quickly wanted to move the conversation away from the topic.
Not buying it. Shoen wanted to talk about the player they drafted. Thats how GMs do it.
The Giants are open to upgrading the QB position if they feel an upgrade is available.
If they didn't think they had an opportunity last night their evaluation skills are even worse than I thought.
Schoen keeps saying you can't shop hungry. They must be taking Ozempic. I don't think they're hungry at all despite being emaciated.