The only team with arguably a worse room is The Raiders. Yes, I'd rather have Bryce Young than Daniel Jones.
Jones posted stats akin to the 32nd best starter in the NFL in 2023.
Here are his rankings vs other NFL starters in 2023, taken from Football Reference"
TD% (below 32nd)
INT% (below 32nd)
SUCC% (30th)
Y/A (31st)
Y/G (32nd)
QB Rate (below 32nd)
QBR (30th)
Sack% (below 32nd)
I love Malik Nabers as an NFL prospect. I'm sure it will mean a modest tick up in Jones' production, perhaps enough for management to give him a year 7. But he won't post stellar starting QB numbers because he doesn't have the talent to do so.
I think we have to conclude that the New York Giants as an organization don't understand the importance of the quarterback position in today's NFL, and Giants fans are stuck with management that doesn't get it. There is nothing more boring than watching an NFL team with lousy QB play. But for the Giants, that seems to be the strategy.
I think I speak for MANY, including Eric based on his warning post yesterday, that we are TIRED of hearing those who want to act like 3 year olds who didn’t get their way waste space posting garbage like this.
I’m not a Jones fan, but start dealing in reality instead of pouting like a child.
Exactly, you can’t force another team to trade when they also need a QB. We won a few too many games last year and that screwed us out of getting a QB. Get over it.
The Giants had the 6th pick in a draft with 6 top half of the first round QBs and came away without one. Whether it was Mara nixing a package for Maye or poor evals on Penix/JMM, I don't care. They needed to get a QB from the top 6 in this draft. They all represent higher ceilings than what we got. If Penix/JMM are merely good they will improve this team more than an elite WR.
Another “m word”… morons.
They wanted to drafted a QB not worthy of the sixth pick in the draft. Again.
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That the top three teams needed QB’s. What you are concluding here is that the Giants should have drafted JJM, Penix, or Nix at 6. None of those QB’s are sure thing types. The last thing the team needs is to drop one QB they over drafted to do the same thing all over again.
The Giants had the 6th pick in a draft with 6 top half of the first round QBs and came away without one. Whether it was Mara nixing a package for Maye or poor evals on Penix/JMM, I don't care. They needed to get a QB from the top 6 in this draft. They all represent higher ceilings than what we got. If Penix/JMM are merely good they will improve this team more than an elite WR.
And if those QB’s suck then posters would be whining about how they over drafted a QB at 6 again, just like Jones.
So you would draft a QB even if you think he sucks because you think your current QB sucks, wow, what a plan, way to double down on terrible.
I think I speak for MANY, including Eric based on his warning post yesterday, that we are TIRED of hearing those who want to act like 3 year olds who didn’t get their way waste space posting garbage like this.
I’m not a Jones fan, but start dealing in reality instead of pouting like a child.
Agreed. I'm not a fan of his either based on what we've seen but I don't want him to fail. And it's time to move on already. If Jones can't succeed with a revamped OL and who may have been the best WR from the draft on some draft boards, then it's on him, and the Giants move on in 2025.
Will these same posters root for losses in 2024 to have a shot at whoever the top QB is in 2025 b/c they just hate Jones that much? Or would they rather the Giants act like the Broncos and overspend to trade for a QB and lose valuable draft capital, only to then force a QB pick at #12 this year?
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If you have friends, go whine to them.
I think I speak for MANY, including Eric based on his warning post yesterday, that we are TIRED of hearing those who want to act like 3 year olds who didn’t get their way waste space posting garbage like this.
I’m not a Jones fan, but start dealing in reality instead of pouting like a child.
Agreed. I'm not a fan of his either based on what we've seen but I don't want him to fail. And it's time to move on already. If Jones can't succeed with a revamped OL and who may have been the best WR from the draft on some draft boards, then it's on him, and the Giants move on in 2025.
Will these same posters root for losses in 2024 to have a shot at whoever the top QB is in 2025 b/c they just hate Jones that much? Or would they rather the Giants act like the Broncos and overspend to trade for a QB and lose valuable draft capital, only to then force a QB pick at #12 this year?
by 'it's time to move on already' I mean the fans, not the Giants.
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In comment 16491222 eric2425ny said:
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That the top three teams needed QB’s. What you are concluding here is that the Giants should have drafted JJM, Penix, or Nix at 6. None of those QB’s are sure thing types. The last thing the team needs is to drop one QB they over drafted to do the same thing all over again.
The Giants had the 6th pick in a draft with 6 top half of the first round QBs and came away without one. Whether it was Mara nixing a package for Maye or poor evals on Penix/JMM, I don't care. They needed to get a QB from the top 6 in this draft. They all represent higher ceilings than what we got. If Penix/JMM are merely good they will improve this team more than an elite WR.
And if those QB’s suck then posters would be whining about how they over drafted a QB at 6 again, just like Jones.
All 6 of these QBs represent higher ceilings than Daniel Jones. They have unknown ceilings. They might all be much better than Jones' best. But if you don't take the shot, you'll never know. Instead we gave a weapon to a guy who doesn't know how to use weapons. Every weapon Daniel Jones ever got, performed worse...
[Sarcasm off]
[Sarcasm off]
Don't you know, only the negatives
[Sarcasm off]
There are plenty of QBs who can win playoff games. You can get Trubisky for cheap.
If Schoen feels that Jones, plus Lock, is better for the time being than 3 QBs that they clearly did NOT have first rd grades on, then he is staking his job AND reputation on that.
I don't think that means that anyone over there "loves" Jones.
You don't expend the time and resources AND try really hard to trade up for a QB, if you "love" your incumbent.
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They must find a QB like that!! No more screwing around and get one. Give up a ton of picks, if you must, to get a quality QB like that on your roster.
[Sarcasm off]
There are plenty of QBs who can win playoff games. You can get Trubisky for cheap.
Can't tell if this is a joke or not.
In comment 16491231 EmpireWF said:
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In comment 16491236 Darwinian said:
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In comment 16491222 eric2425ny said:
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That the top three teams needed QB’s. What you are concluding here is that the Giants should have drafted JJM, Penix, or Nix at 6. None of those QB’s are sure thing types. The last thing the team needs is to drop one QB they over drafted to do the same thing all over again.
The Giants had the 6th pick in a draft with 6 top half of the first round QBs and came away without one. Whether it was Mara nixing a package for Maye or poor evals on Penix/JMM, I don't care. They needed to get a QB from the top 6 in this draft. They all represent higher ceilings than what we got. If Penix/JMM are merely good they will improve this team more than an elite WR.
And if those QB’s suck then posters would be whining about how they over drafted a QB at 6 again, just like Jones.
All 6 of these QBs represent higher ceilings than Daniel Jones. They have unknown ceilings. They might all be much better than Jones' best. But if you don't take the shot, you'll never know. Instead we gave a weapon to a guy who doesn't know how to use weapons. Every weapon Daniel Jones ever got, performed worse...
You can also draft a QB every year until one hits. Let’s say that takes 2-3 years. Now you have a QB and the rest of the roster is comprised of mid round picks, expensive free agents, and JAG’s.
If Schoen feels that Jones, plus Lock, is better for the time being than 3 QBs that they clearly did NOT have first rd grades on, then he is staking his job AND reputation on that.
I don't think that means that anyone over there "loves" Jones.
You don't expend the time and resources AND try really hard to trade up for a QB, if you "love" your incumbent.
We have data on how much QB improvement means to a team.
Upgrading from a bad QB to a merely good one is 3-5 points. A great QB is 5-8 points. I think when Rodgers was at his peak he was seen as a 10 point differentiator.
The very best players at other positions are worth about a point to 2 points.
This means Calvin Johnson at his very peak was worth less than half what Alex Smith was worth at his peak and he was worth less than 25% of what Rodgers was worth at his peak.
I love Malik Nabers, but he will be worth less than half than any of these QBs that turn out to be *just good*.
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because they didn't draft Penix.
If Schoen feels that Jones, plus Lock, is better for the time being than 3 QBs that they clearly did NOT have first rd grades on, then he is staking his job AND reputation on that.
I don't think that means that anyone over there "loves" Jones.
You don't expend the time and resources AND try really hard to trade up for a QB, if you "love" your incumbent.
We have data on how much QB improvement means to a team.
Upgrading from a bad QB to a merely good one is 3-5 points. A great QB is 5-8 points. I think when Rodgers was at his peak he was seen as a 10 point differentiator.
The very best players at other positions are worth about a point to 2 points.
This means Calvin Johnson at his very peak was worth less than half what Alex Smith was worth at his peak and he was worth less than 25% of what Rodgers was worth at his peak.
I love Malik Nabers, but he will be worth less than half than any of these QBs that turn out to be *just good*.
I’m pretty sure 95% of us want a different QB. But you can’t force it if your talent evaluators don’t feel the QB’s available are worth the draft slot. They just did this when they drafted Jones.
A QB who was the last pick in the draft, 3-4 on the 49ers depth chart tool the team to the Super Bowl!!! Because Brock is a stud or because he has two top WR and one of the best TE in football........
I don't really expect it, I was always a fan but had given up on Jones during last season, but the number of unhinged takes on this board this week has me rooting so hard for him this season.
[Sarcasm off]
So...you laud his performance (which was good) against the pathetic Vikings defense yet forget that he looked as bad, maybe even worse than ever, the following week against the Eagles.
Jones looked terrible against the Eagles and continued to look terrible in his shortened 2023 season.
Is this his 3rd or 4th *last shot*. I'm losing track.
I’m pretty sure 95% of us want a different QB. But you can’t force it if your talent evaluators don’t feel the QB’s available are worth the draft slot. They just did this when they drafted Jones.
How is it that the same people who hate Jones can’t understand this?
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I’m pretty sure 95% of us want a different QB. But you can’t force it if your talent evaluators don’t feel the QB’s available are worth the draft slot. They just did this when they drafted Jones.
How is it that the same people who hate Jones can’t understand this?
1. Nobody hates Jones. We just think he has proven to be a lousy QB.
2. I don't understand what *force a pick* means. All these guys are unknowns to an extent. Jones is a KNOWN. The 1 QB the Giants seemed to not want to pony up for (Maye) and the three they passed on, have UNKNOWN ceilings. I take unknown ceiling over KNOWN terrible ceiling.
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In comment 16491362 eric2425ny said:
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I’m pretty sure 95% of us want a different QB. But you can’t force it if your talent evaluators don’t feel the QB’s available are worth the draft slot. They just did this when they drafted Jones.
How is it that the same people who hate Jones can’t understand this?
1. Nobody hates Jones. We just think he has proven to be a lousy QB.
2. I don't understand what *force a pick* means. All these guys are unknowns to an extent. Jones is a KNOWN. The 1 QB the Giants seemed to not want to pony up for (Maye) and the three they passed on, have UNKNOWN ceilings. I take unknown ceiling over KNOWN terrible ceiling.
Force a pick means you don’t think the QB will be that good based on the information provided by your scouts. Every player has an unknown ceiling in the draft, but you use the information you have to rank them and draft based on that ranking.
It doesn’t mean they love Jones, they assessed that JJM, Penix, and Nix were not any better than him based on the information they compiled and reviewed.
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Enough already! We get it. Let’s see how it plays out now with a better supporting cast, including Oline. I for one am not a Jones fan, but will root for him to succeed. If he can’t do it this year, then he’s gone next with no cap ramifications. We'll be in the market next year one way or another. He was Danny Dimes for a reason, let’s see if he can recreate that magic this year. They have to take the reins off him though. He’s become too risk averse IMHO. He’s thinking too much and not letting it rip. Could we be the worst QB room, maybe, but we could also be more average, if it comes together.
Is this his 3rd or 4th *last shot*. I'm losing track.
It doesn’t matter how many shots. They tried to move up for Maye obviously, but it was not meant to be. Jones is the starter this year whether we like it or not and I for one hope he can succeed. He’s got no more excuses.
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I’m pretty sure 95% of us want a different QB. But you can’t force it if your talent evaluators don’t feel the QB’s available are worth the draft slot. They just did this when they drafted Jones.
How is it that the same people who hate Jones can’t understand this?
Last night was completely different than 19. Taking Jones at 6 hurt because they also had 17. If the Giants had 2 1rd picks last night, say 6 and 13 and went Nabers, QB everyone would be happy.
Also all those QBs taken were far superior to Jones as prospects
We could probably argue about all of these. Giants QB situation is pretty bad but it’s not like a tier below the other teams that don’t have a good situation either.
We could probably argue about all of these. Giants QB situation is pretty bad but it’s not like a tier below the other teams that don’t have a good situation either.
Ok lemming.
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NYJ, NE, ATL, LV, DEN, MN, SEA, CLE, PIT and TEN.
We could probably argue about all of these. Giants QB situation is pretty bad but it’s not like a tier below the other teams that don’t have a good situation either.
Ok lemming.
I agree with your OP. We will likely be ahead of any QB needy team in next years draft by a good amount. My early hope for QB in 2025 is Jaxson Dart.
Check out his highlights and familiarize yourself, he's promising and from Ole Miss to boot! - ( New Window )
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In comment 16491362 eric2425ny said:
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I’m pretty sure 95% of us want a different QB. But you can’t force it if your talent evaluators don’t feel the QB’s available are worth the draft slot. They just did this when they drafted Jones.
How is it that the same people who hate Jones can’t understand this?
Last night was completely different than 19. Taking Jones at 6 hurt because they also had 17. If the Giants had 2 1rd picks last night, say 6 and 13 and went Nabers, QB everyone would be happy.
Also all those QBs taken were far superior to Jones as prospects
It wouldn't have made a difference. If we had 6 & 13 and took Nabers first we would've missed out on the QBs. The top 6 QBs went off the board by pick 12.
There are cap ramifications and with an injury, possibly massive cap ramifications. Why do people keep saying this lie?
And we have seen it play out. It’s totally understandable to be disappointed we have to watch another year of this guy.
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In comment 16491362 eric2425ny said:
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I’m pretty sure 95% of us want a different QB. But you can’t force it if your talent evaluators don’t feel the QB’s available are worth the draft slot. They just did this when they drafted Jones.
How is it that the same people who hate Jones can’t understand this?
1. Nobody hates Jones. We just think he has proven to be a lousy QB.
2. I don't understand what *force a pick* means. All these guys are unknowns to an extent. Jones is a KNOWN. The 1 QB the Giants seemed to not want to pony up for (Maye) and the three they passed on, have UNKNOWN ceilings. I take unknown ceiling over KNOWN terrible ceiling.
By that logic, you should have no problems with them taking a developmental QB later on in the draft. Or even any UDFA after the draft. Because the unknown is better than lousy known, right?
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NYJ, NE, ATL, LV, DEN, MN, SEA, CLE, PIT and TEN.
We could probably argue about all of these. Giants QB situation is pretty bad but it’s not like a tier below the other teams that don’t have a good situation either.
Ok lemming.
March 2024.
We could probably argue about all of these. Giants QB situation is pretty bad but it’s not like a tier below the other teams that don’t have a good situation either.
Good lord now I have seen everything on this site. Some of those teams have 2 QBs better than Jones.
I would love to hear the ATL and Jets argument.
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In comment 16491434 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
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In comment 16491362 eric2425ny said:
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I’m pretty sure 95% of us want a different QB. But you can’t force it if your talent evaluators don’t feel the QB’s available are worth the draft slot. They just did this when they drafted Jones.
How is it that the same people who hate Jones can’t understand this?
1. Nobody hates Jones. We just think he has proven to be a lousy QB.
2. I don't understand what *force a pick* means. All these guys are unknowns to an extent. Jones is a KNOWN. The 1 QB the Giants seemed to not want to pony up for (Maye) and the three they passed on, have UNKNOWN ceilings. I take unknown ceiling over KNOWN terrible ceiling.
By that logic, you should have no problems with them taking a developmental QB later on in the draft. Or even any UDFA after the draft. Because the unknown is better than lousy known, right?
100% I would love it if we drafted a developmental QB somewhere in the rest of the draft. Sign me up for any of the top names: Rattler, Milton, Pratt, Travis
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NYJ, NE, ATL, LV, DEN, MN, SEA, CLE, PIT and TEN.
We could probably argue about all of these. Giants QB situation is pretty bad but it’s not like a tier below the other teams that don’t have a good situation either.
Good lord now I have seen everything on this site. Some of those teams have 2 QBs better than Jones.
I would love to hear the ATL and Jets argument.
First, I don't really care for DJ. I was hoping to draft a QB, but there's a lot of hyperbole around here.
The argument is easy for NYJ. Rodgers is 40 years old and coming off of a torn achilles. Taylor is even more injury prone than DJ. Jets might have the highest probability in the league to end up on their 3rd QB by Halloween.
ATL has another old QB coming back from a torn achilles and a rookie who was projected to go in day 2 and faced zero pass rush all year in the Pac12. That same ATL projected starting QB was outdueled in a playoff game 2 years ago by our own QB (who didn't have the luxury of the MN WRs, OL or home field that game).
I'm only making a narrow point here to refute the OP. The point isn't that DJ is the QB of the future or that he even deserves another chance to start.
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In comment 16491670 Metnut said:
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NYJ, NE, ATL, LV, DEN, MN, SEA, CLE, PIT and TEN.
We could probably argue about all of these. Giants QB situation is pretty bad but it’s not like a tier below the other teams that don’t have a good situation either.
Good lord now I have seen everything on this site. Some of those teams have 2 QBs better than Jones.
I would love to hear the ATL and Jets argument.
First, I don't really care for DJ. I was hoping to draft a QB, but there's a lot of hyperbole around here.
The argument is easy for NYJ. Rodgers is 40 years old and coming off of a torn achilles. Taylor is even more injury prone than DJ. Jets might have the highest probability in the league to end up on their 3rd QB by Halloween.
ATL has another old QB coming back from a torn achilles and a rookie who was projected to go in day 2 and faced zero pass rush all year in the Pac12. That same ATL projected starting QB was outdueled in a playoff game 2 years ago by our own QB (who didn't have the luxury of the MN WRs, OL or home field that game).
I'm only making a narrow point here to refute the OP. The point isn't that DJ is the QB of the future or that he even deserves another chance to start.
Also, MN and NYJ owes a lot more guaranteed money to their injured and old QBs than the Giants do. Giants can at least get a relatively clean start after this season. Jets have a looking $50M+ cap hit after Rodgers is gone and MN fully guaranteed huge money to Cousins going through the 2025 season.
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In comment 16491900 TyreeHelmet said:
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In comment 16491670 Metnut said:
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NYJ, NE, ATL, LV, DEN, MN, SEA, CLE, PIT and TEN.
We could probably argue about all of these. Giants QB situation is pretty bad but it’s not like a tier below the other teams that don’t have a good situation either.
Good lord now I have seen everything on this site. Some of those teams have 2 QBs better than Jones.
I would love to hear the ATL and Jets argument.
First, I don't really care for DJ. I was hoping to draft a QB, but there's a lot of hyperbole around here.
The argument is easy for NYJ. Rodgers is 40 years old and coming off of a torn achilles. Taylor is even more injury prone than DJ. Jets might have the highest probability in the league to end up on their 3rd QB by Halloween.
ATL has another old QB coming back from a torn achilles and a rookie who was projected to go in day 2 and faced zero pass rush all year in the Pac12. That same ATL projected starting QB was outdueled in a playoff game 2 years ago by our own QB (who didn't have the luxury of the MN WRs, OL or home field that game).
I'm only making a narrow point here to refute the OP. The point isn't that DJ is the QB of the future or that he even deserves another chance to start.
Also, MN and NYJ owes a lot more guaranteed money to their injured and old QBs than the Giants do. Giants can at least get a relatively clean start after this season. Jets have a looking $50M+ cap hit after Rodgers is gone and MN fully guaranteed huge money to Cousins going through the 2025 season.
You will not find many observers who will agree with your assessment that all the teams you mention have inferior QB situations to the Giants. I take Aaron Rodgers, Drake Maye, Kirk Cousins, Michael Penix, Bo Nix, JJ McCarthy, Geno Smith, Deshaun Watson, Russ Wilson, Justin Fields, and Will Levis in a walk over Daniel Jones. Please consider Jones' performance in 2023. It was league-worst stuff. Many of the vets on this list have never played that poorly in their entire careers. An d it is comical to place them below Jones on any list.
I’m probably higher on Penix than most, but if there was a legit QB competition of him against Jones this year, my money would be on Penix winning the job.
I think taking into account the contract, the injuries, it being his 6th year and then overall play, I think the Giants have the worst QB situation the league.
I’m probably higher on Penix than most, but if there was a legit QB competition of him against Jones this year, my money would be on Penix winning the job.
I think taking into account the contract, the injuries, it being his 6th year and then overall play, I think the Giants have the worst QB situation the league.
When it comes to comparing Penix to Jones, what matters is upside. Penix has it and Jones doesn't. we know what Jones is, a marginal starter, at best. Sure Penix could be just as bad as Jones or worse than that. But there are still a range of outcomes where he is a superstar, or a very good QB, or merely good. Plus there are outcomes where he is the same level as Jones. Add those together and you probably have 60-70% where he is as good or better than Jones. And if he is better than Jones, he will easily be as valuable and likely more valuable to the Giants than Nabers (who I love as a prospect), because upgrading from bad to good at QB is more valuable to an NFL team than adding a top WR.
lol, this will be a fun season on BBI.
Will there be an evolution in your thinking.