Lombardi: NYG trade up derailed by NE needing to get to 4/5

In comment 16492277 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

In comment 16492262 BigBlueCane said: Quote: then Nabers is. Even an average QB is worth more then an amazing WR. I’d take an elite WR over an average QB 100 times out of 100. If you have an average QB you’re stuck in QB hell. I think McCarthy will be a lot better than average, but the Giants were not sold enough to take him over Nabers

Daboll must have felt he couldn't improve his release, throwing motion, touch and accuracy on the money balls. Or else I can't see them passing on him. At least that's how I'm reasoning it.

In comment 16492285 JonC said:

Quote:

but I didn't think JJ was the proper escape hatch either. The right QB was gone. Giants agreed. Onto the next ...

We've got to eat shit as fans for another year. I can't believe it's already on to the 2025 season. We've been eating shit for since they turned in the card for Barkley. The events that followed have been horrific for the franchise.

In comment 16492286 Bleedblue10 said:

Quote:

Lombardi is a blowhole. If NE wanted a trade with the chargers they would’ve gotten it(from 6). Chargers were taking Alt and everyone knew what NE was doing if they traded down to 6. Arizona I believe about not wanting to move but then again we all knew why. So if NE wanted JJ at 6 or 5 they def could’ve made that happen. I call CAP!

Minnesota hyping up their love for JJM could have scared NE away. AZ and LAC probably couldn't give a guarantee they wouldn't trade and couldn't say what it would cost without knowing what other teams would offer.

If they wanted to trade w us they could’ve. I believe they just wanted more and more and Schoen(and Minnesota) for that matter had to draw a line somewhere where it wasn’t ridiculous. Those articles about a “kings ransom” and “legendary haul” were prob true. Fuck NE anyway. Something tells me they enjoyed sticking it to us after SB46 and 42

Again, this was a mistake and unless the team manages to really, really overperform this year, it will likely cost Daboll his job and Schoen front office power.

In comment 16492249 Mike from Ohio said:

Quote:

In comment 16492240 Thegratefulhead said: Quote: You were wrong! The Giants. Who actuallly know what play was called Think Daniel Jones can read defenses. All of the people that have been acting like toddlers since Nabers was drafted are upset that their narrative appears incorrect. The reasons being regurgitated are a thing of beauty. Mara made them do it. Or Schoen must incompetent. It could not possibly be. You’re the dunce. Dunning Kruger. It's hard to take you seriously when you don't know how to type in sentences.

OK Mikey

Are you one of the tools that’s says.

Daniel Jones can’t read defenses or please be specific in your criticisms.

The Giants passed on 3 QBs that were drafted in round 1

The Giants have the best scouting on Daniel Jones.

I conclude from this that the people on this board insisting Jones can’t read a defense are completely full of shit.

In comment 16492284 BleedBlue46 said:

Quote:

In comment 16492255 ajr2456 said: Quote: Just not more than Nabers. You think they would have taken him if LAC went Nabers? I just can't see them having a first rd grade on JJM at this point. I think GiantGrit and Woodstock were right plus Rico said he was always a smokescreen too. If they liked him I think they would've taken him at 6 or traded down and taken him. I tend to believe they didn't have him in their 15 first round graded players.

I think JJM was 3rd on their list at 6.

Nabers
Odunze

In comment 16492292 Sean said:

Quote:

In comment 16492285 JonC said: Quote: but I didn't think JJ was the proper escape hatch either. The right QB was gone. Giants agreed. Onto the next ... We've got to eat shit as fans for another year. I can't believe it's already on to the 2025 season. We've been eating shit for since they turned in the card for Barkley. The events that followed have been horrific for the franchise.

This sums it up well.

In comment 16492058 Andy in Boston said:

Quote:

did they have several meetings with him and were in touch with him all the time?

Then why didn't they draft him?

than pick the wrong QB again.

also suck and are incapable of acknowledging that.

CFB has changed the way it does business and you're seeing the smarter NFL franchises react accordingly.

Meanwhile the Giants are gonna run Daniel Mara out there again trying to recapture lighting in the bottle.

Mikey? Are you 12 years old?

I am so glad you

dident

call me a poopy head

could break me poor

admit facts!!

that's some high-level reporting by Lombardi, since the Giants passed on him.

As I've said, if Giants FO didn't have a conviction on JJM, good for them on passing.

They will extend him.

Bank on it.

In comment 16492308 JonC said:

Quote:

than pick the wrong QB again.

You're going to get both.

"The quarterback makes the receiver, the receiver doesn't make the quarterback"

In comment 16492311 BigBlueCane said:

Quote:

also suck and are incapable of acknowledging that. CFB has changed the way it does business and you're seeing the smarter NFL franchises react accordingly. Meanwhile the Giants are gonna run Daniel Mara out there again trying to recapture lighting in the bottle.

This I can agree with, at a minimum they're green and not sticking to a plan. But, picking JJ wouldn't solve the QB problems imo.

In comment 16492312 Mike from Ohio said:

Quote:

Mikey? Are you 12 years old? I am so glad you dident call me a poopy head could break me poor admit facts!!

What facts homey?

The Giants did not draft a QB.

What does that mean?

Explain it?

Mara made them do it.

Show me on the doll where Mara hurt you.

You couldn’t possibly be wrong, I get it.

In comment 16492311 BigBlueCane said:

Quote:

also suck and are incapable of acknowledging that. CFB has changed the way it does business and you're seeing the smarter NFL franchises react accordingly. Meanwhile the Giants are gonna run Daniel Mara out there again trying to recapture lighting in the bottle.

They do
Guess you are one of those guys who evaluates a draft class after a year or two

Maybe you can enlighten us how other franchises are adjusting and our heads are in the sand

I wanted a QB but love the player they drafted and am hopeful we can have a good season. It seems like a lot of talent. I was bullish at the start of 23 but the injuries and schedule scuttled the season early. I like the offseason moves and believe they might be able to protect Jones.

If that happens I think Jones could deliver the ball to playmakers in space and with the increased team speed believe it could be productive. Excited for 24. I see many people bailing on the season because they did not get their way in round 1.

Toddlers, no other description is appropriate.

In comment 16492292 Sean said:

Quote:

In comment 16492285 JonC said: Quote: but I didn't think JJ was the proper escape hatch either. The right QB was gone. Giants agreed. Onto the next ... We've got to eat shit as fans for another year. I can't believe it's already on to the 2025 season. We've been eating shit for since they turned in the card for Barkley. The events that followed have been horrific for the franchise.

You can also be wrong. QB play can exceed your expectations. The D could play well and keep us around .500. We are no longer going to rely on our run game to win games, which is what everyone wanted. The OL might be better, we finally have a WR corps.

It’s not all bad.

In comment 16492303 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

In comment 16492284 BleedBlue46 said: Quote: In comment 16492255 ajr2456 said: Quote: Just not more than Nabers. You think they would have taken him if LAC went Nabers? I just can't see them having a first rd grade on JJM at this point. I think GiantGrit and Woodstock were right plus Rico said he was always a smokescreen too. If they liked him I think they would've taken him at 6 or traded down and taken him. I tend to believe they didn't have him in their 15 first round graded players. I think JJM was 3rd on their list at 6. Nabers Odunze

Well then there was 0% chance. I was honestly praying LAC took Nabers thinking maybe that would give us a better chance at JJM. I'm fine with it though, Nabers is as elite of a wr prospect as you'll find. It is what it is.

In comment 16492342 Thegratefulhead said:

Quote:

I wanted a QB but love the player they drafted and am hopeful we can have a good season. It seems like a lot of talent. I was bullish at the start of 23 but the injuries and schedule scuttled the season early. I like the offseason moves and believe they might be able to protect Jones. If that happens I think Jones could deliver the ball to playmakers in space and with the increased team speed believe it could be productive. Excited for 24. I see many people bailing on the season because they did not get their way in round 1. Toddlers, no other description is appropriate.

No matter who we got we were unlikely to be very good in 2024. That's why it's great we saved that 2025 1st. Look at our schedule. We will have 5-8 wins and be picking 3-12 in the draft my friend.

by giving the franchise a sense of hope and feeling of change. Might he still crash and burn? Yes. but at least you'd have a chance of something positive.

Keeping the status quo was the most tone deaf move they've made since JS arrived.

In comment 16492354 BigBlueCane said:

Quote:

by giving the franchise a sense of hope and feeling of change. Might he still crash and burn? Yes. but at least you'd have a chance of something positive. Keeping the status quo was the most tone deaf move they've made since JS arrived.

So they should draft a QB that they don’t have a conviction on? But they should draft one based upon feelings?

Please tell us more

is not a positive. Again, look at what NIL is doing to the collegiate ranks when it comes to talent distribution.

A chunk of the fan base, but I don't expect the organization to run that way.

If they got Maye, I'd be ecstatic. If they passed on Maye, I'd feel like you do about JJ. I just don't agree on the prospect.

In comment 16492345 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

In comment 16492292 Sean said: Quote: In comment 16492285 JonC said: Quote: but I didn't think JJ was the proper escape hatch either. The right QB was gone. Giants agreed. Onto the next ... We've got to eat shit as fans for another year. I can't believe it's already on to the 2025 season. We've been eating shit for since they turned in the card for Barkley. The events that followed have been horrific for the franchise. You can also be wrong. QB play can exceed your expectations. The D could play well and keep us around .500. We are no longer going to rely on our run game to win games, which is what everyone wanted. The OL might be better, we finally have a WR corps. It’s not all bad.

This is the critical piece. Nabers presence could drastically change the way teams play us. It could open up the rest of the offense in the way we expected Waller to do. The addition of Waller was a large part of the reason BW predicted the Giants would win 11 games in 23. If t his happens and Jones produces, some very vocal high volume posters are going to look monumentally stupid.

These people post so much , that their opinions have become VERY important to them.

So today, they are mad.

I have to admit BBI is a lot of fun to read today.

All day baby!

they JUST gave DJ that enormous contract and they're not ready or willing to admit it was a mistake. It's a ton of money they are paying him this year, regardless of whether they had drafted a QB. I think they were only willing to eat that money if it was for someone they viewed as a generational prospect and Maye was the only one they felt fit that description.

The Giants don't like admitting mistakes quickly, and Mara in particular, takes a very long time to move on from guys he really likes.

They'd never admit it, but I'm pretty sure they realize the likelihood of a playoff caliber season is pretty small this year.

My fear is they have a season slightly better than last year, but still not good enough to make the playoffs and then restructure and extend Jones because they're not high enough in the draft to get a QB in 2025.

They are in that weird zone of being too good to pick top 5 and not good enough to be a playoff contender. It's a really shitty place to be.

history informed it as such.

I don't know what has to happen for them to make a correct decision on Jones.

In comment 16492399 JonC said:

Quote:

history informed it as such. I don't know what has to happen for them to make a correct decision on Jones.

Yep, if you go back to January/February, a lot of this was predicted by people on BBI. Add that to the list of problems, the franchise is predictable in just about everything they do.

In comment 16492387 LW_Giants said:

Quote:

they JUST gave DJ that enormous contract and they're not ready or willing to admit it was a mistake. It's a ton of money they are paying him this year, regardless of whether they had drafted a QB. I think they were only willing to eat that money if it was for someone they viewed as a generational prospect and Maye was the only one they felt fit that description. The Giants don't like admitting mistakes quickly, and Mara in particular, takes a very long time to move on from guys he really likes. They'd never admit it, but I'm pretty sure they realize the likelihood of a playoff caliber season is pretty small this year. My fear is they have a season slightly better than last year, but still not good enough to make the playoffs and then restructure and extend Jones because they're not high enough in the draft to get a QB in 2025. They are in that weird zone of being too good to pick top 5 and not good enough to be a playoff contender. It's a really shitty place to be.

If they weren't ready to move on they wouldn't have attempted to trade up for a QB.

In comment 16492387 LW_Giants said:

Quote:

they JUST gave DJ that enormous contract and they're not ready or willing to admit it was a mistake. It's a ton of money they are paying him this year, regardless of whether they had drafted a QB. I think they were only willing to eat that money if it was for someone they viewed as a generational prospect and Maye was the only one they felt fit that description. The Giants don't like admitting mistakes quickly, and Mara in particular, takes a very long time to move on from guys he really likes. They'd never admit it, but I'm pretty sure they realize the likelihood of a playoff caliber season is pretty small this year. My fear is they have a season slightly better than last year, but still not good enough to make the playoffs and then restructure and extend Jones because they're not high enough in the draft to get a QB in 2025. They are in that weird zone of being too good to pick top 5 and not good enough to be a playoff contender. It's a really shitty place to be.

Look at the QB needy teams and tell me how likely we are to be picking ahead of them all: NYJ, TB, NO, PIT, CLE, SEA, DAL, LV, LAR. We will have a better shot at a good qb prospect next year than this year. And many here underrate the QB prospects next year: Dart, Ward, Sanders, Ewers, Beck, Milroe, Leonard, Allar and others. There will be 3-4 in the 1st. It will be nothing like the Kenny Pickett qb draft class.

In comment 16492399 JonC said:

Quote:

history informed it as such. I don't know what has to happen for them to make a correct decision on Jones.

They have to find a QB that they have conviction on

They felt Maye was that guy….unfortunately it takes two to tango

b/c the offense still requires a QB to execute it.

And the Giants don't have one.

What will likely happen based on what we've seen of his personality so far is him making a Sportscenter Highlight reel catch every week or so ... and the Giants still losing the game.

Leading to the inevitable result.

Also people may disagree with the prospect right now but as I've told people over and over again, the values and grading scales used by the scouts need to be updated and reweighted to account for what's going on with the game now. An Average or good QB is far superior to the best WR in terms of impact and influence on the game now.

In comment 16492240 Thegratefulhead said:

Quote:

You were wrong! The Giants. Who actuallly know what play was called Think Daniel Jones can read defenses. All of the people that have been acting like toddlers since Nabers was drafted are upset that their narrative appears incorrect. The reasons being regurgitated are a thing of beauty. Mara made them do it. Or Schoen must incompetent. It could not possibly be. You’re the dunce. Dunning Kruger.

Literally the only thing you can actually say with any sort of confidence and/or validity is that the Giants had a higher grade on Nabers than they did on McCarthy, Penix, or Nix.

That's it.

Doesn't say a fucking thing about Jones despite your desperation to claim otherwise.

In comment 16492406 Big Rick in FL said:

Quote:

In comment 16492387 LW_Giants said: Quote: they JUST gave DJ that enormous contract and they're not ready or willing to admit it was a mistake. It's a ton of money they are paying him this year, regardless of whether they had drafted a QB. I think they were only willing to eat that money if it was for someone they viewed as a generational prospect and Maye was the only one they felt fit that description. The Giants don't like admitting mistakes quickly, and Mara in particular, takes a very long time to move on from guys he really likes. They'd never admit it, but I'm pretty sure they realize the likelihood of a playoff caliber season is pretty small this year. My fear is they have a season slightly better than last year, but still not good enough to make the playoffs and then restructure and extend Jones because they're not high enough in the draft to get a QB in 2025. They are in that weird zone of being too good to pick top 5 and not good enough to be a playoff contender. It's a really shitty place to be. If they weren't ready to move on they wouldn't have attempted to trade up for a QB.

As I said I think they were willing to move on, but only if they found someone they thought was a generational talent. You have to scout and meet these guys to decide who that person is, they decided it was Maye.

What I’m saying and what you’re saying are not mutually exclusive

Doesn’t get you out of QB hell. It could very well prolong QB hell.

They wanted Maye. They made a strong push for Maye and were denied. There’s not much else for them to do. They didn’t like the other 3 QBs

So they took the best player available which was also a major need.

but keeping status quo, WILL prolong QB hell.

Hence the difference.

nobody thought we had a chance at Nabers let alone one of the big 3 QBs and JJ was a borderline 2nd rounder.

Some things change but keep perspwctive if JJ played for NC state nobody qoyld caee that we passed on him. Some time being the last guy playing makes you look good.

I am sure someone asked this but I will ask anyway, If this deal fell through because NE was sure that McCarthy wouldn't be there at 6 then why didn't they contact the Giants when they were on the clock at 6 and McCarthy was there? This could have been another Eli Manning type of trade.

Until Gettleman coined it. Yuck, his ghost lingers on.

In comment 16492509 BigBlueCane said:

Quote:

but keeping status quo, WILL prolong QB hell. Hence the difference.

They’re not keeping status quo. They tried hard to move up to get Maye. Offered a haul. Got denied. I don’t know what to tell you but they didn’t like JJM, Nix or Penix. They saw Nabers as a superior prospect.

There was a good chance all along the Giants were going to miss out on the QBs they wanted. This team wasn’t going to be fixed in 1 year. Just because DJ is on the team this year doesn’t mean he’s still in their plans for 2025. Hell, there’s a chance he doesn’t even play this year and Lock plays all year. Giants will be all in on a QB next year.

Despite the glowing reports from the draftniks, one cold hard truth remains.

This is a QB driven league and if you don't have one, you don't have a prayer.

JJM might be one, he might not be one, can't say right now. But we do know that DJ isn't one. And will never be one.

So the Giants, once again, don't have a prayer. They are facing another season that's likely going to be over by Thanksgiving. And we'll be having the same inane arguments about 'the value wasn't there', etc... Because the same group of experts can't accept the game has changed that dramatically.

A loaded roster can contend even with only a serviceable QB. Giants should keep trying to upgrade QB, and commit no new money to Jones, but I like what they are doing this draft.

In comment 16494219 BigBlueCane said:

Quote:

Despite the glowing reports from the draftniks, one cold hard truth remains. This is a QB driven league and if you don't have one, you don't have a prayer. JJM might be one, he might not be one, can't say right now. But we do know that DJ isn't one. And will never be one. So the Giants, once again, don't have a prayer. They are facing another season that's likely going to be over by Thanksgiving. And we'll be having the same inane arguments about 'the value wasn't there', etc... Because the same group of experts can't accept the game has changed that dramatically.

This is a great fucking post.

In comment 16492280 BigBlueCane said:

Quote:

that's the point. We're not getting out of as long as Jones is on the roster. Period. Full stop.

False. We are building a roster, if a QB comes up that the team loves they will see if the cost to acquire him is reasonable. The only QB they loved in this draft was Maye. The cost was not reasonable and the Pats were also sold. QB is important. Jones is the QB. It is what it is. Root for him to win or dont.

In comment 16492691 Jay on the Island said:

Quote:

I am sure someone asked this but I will ask anyway, If this deal fell through because NE was sure that McCarthy wouldn't be there at 6 then why didn't they contact the Giants when they were on the clock at 6 and McCarthy was there? This could have been another Eli Manning type of trade.

The most logical answer is that it's bogus reporting that the Patriots would have taken McCarthy at 6. I think some people here are just having a tough time accepting that McCarthy wasn't valued as highly by most teams as they thought he should be.

McCarthy was never going to be drafted in the top 6 because he's simply not worth that. Neither was Daniel Jones - which is why I've continued to be so amazed by some fans here eagerness to want to potentially repeat history.

In comment 16492691 Jay on the Island said:

Quote:

I am sure someone asked this but I will ask anyway, If this deal fell through because NE was sure that McCarthy wouldn't be there at 6 then why didn't they contact the Giants when they were on the clock at 6 and McCarthy was there? This could have been another Eli Manning type of trade.

That type of trade is no longer legal in the NFL. A player has to be signed to be traded.

building a roster requires harsher internal scouting and evaluations then this team has demonstrated they are capable of doing.