His point was that the team doesnt have a draft plan. Their plan was to aggressively pursue Maye and if they couldn’t make that happen, to take an elite WR prospect. That was the plan and the contingency. It’s just the take the QB at any cost even if you don’t believe the guy is worth the pick crowd wants to hang this BS that they don’t have a plan because the team who spent countless hours studying these QBs doesn’t agree with their assessment. Typical lazy thinking.
why everyone on this board gets offended when someone rips the Giants. He's not wrong. Our drafting has been suspect over 10 years. Bottom Half is a fair comment.
QB is the most important spot on the team, we didn't draft one, He's allowed to criticize us. Barring an absolute miracle with Daniel Jones, we are going to be desperate next year for a QB.
2025 is the wrong year to be desperate for a QB.
I like Dart and Ward then there's Sanders, Ewers, Beck, Milroe, Allar and others. There will be 3-4 taken in the 1st and 2 will likely end up good. You watch a lot of college football? How can you tell me Jaxson Dart doesn't have everything needed to have a good season and emerge as a promising prospect? Then Cam Ward was in the early Heisman conversations with no help at WSU.
why everyone on this board gets offended when someone rips the Giants. He's not wrong. Our drafting has been suspect over 10 years. Bottom Half is a fair comment.
QB is the most important spot on the team, we didn't draft one, He's allowed to criticize us. Barring an absolute miracle with Daniel Jones, we are going to be desperate next year for a QB.
+1, although our drafting has been awful for more than 10 years. Terps is also right when he says the Giants are just a badly run team with meddling, incompetent ownership. proven out time and time again.
And he's not a Giant-hater because he has a different opinion than you.
He understands what the Giants don't. Turning around a franchise without a QB requires adding a QB. If you don't have a QB, you are nowhere in the NFL. As I said elsewhere regarding Penix, and you can say the same for JJM:
When it comes to comparing Penix to Jones, what matters is upside. Penix has it and Jones doesn't. We know what Jones is, a marginal starter, at best. Sure Penix could be just as bad as Jones or worse than that. But there are still a range of outcomes where he is a superstar, or a very good QB, or merely good. Plus there are outcomes where he is the same level as Jones. Add those together and you probably have 60-70% (or more) where he is as good or better than Jones. And if he is better than Jones, he will easily be as valuable and likely more valuable to the Giants than Nabers (who I love as a prospect), because upgrading from bad to good at QB is more valuable to an NFL team than adding a top WR.
You may not like to hear it, but the Giants don't get the QB position, and they have been bumbling over it for almost a decade, and we have been rewarded with backup quality QB play sice at least 2017. This franchise is woefully mismanaged, and it starts at the top with Mara.
Now maybe they add a developmental QB before the draft is over and we can start to repair what has been an incompetent run with the most important position in sports.
why everyone on this board gets offended when someone rips the Giants. He's not wrong. Our drafting has been suspect over 10 years. Bottom Half is a fair comment.
QB is the most important spot on the team, we didn't draft one, He's allowed to criticize us. Barring an absolute miracle with Daniel Jones, we are going to be desperate next year for a QB.
The teams he lists as good teams… how did they get their QBs?
I don’t think it’s an easy solution though. The only way to build an environment that’s friendly for a future high QB pick is to add talent. They did that. They have more picks where they can add a pice to the OL. If you do that all of a sudden this offensive talent doesn’t look so bad.
But this needs to decide what it wants to be. They need to figure out an identity. Build a dominant unit. I do feel like they have a tendency to just pick players or fill needs instead of seeing a bigger picture
Have you seen the Belichick analysis of McCarthy on McAfee?
He was effusive with praise. Makes me think if he was still running Pats Central, McCarthy is a Patriot today.
You never liked JJM though. I'm sick of hearing about this woulda coulda shoulda shit. We got a WR prospect whom is elite as they come. It is what it is.
Not following this. I'm merely pointing out what Belichick said. And drawing the conclusion that if he was still in charge, McCarthy is probably a Pat today.
Which, if you further game it out, Maye may be a Giant...
I don’t think it’s an easy solution though. The only way to build an environment that’s friendly for a future high QB pick is to add talent. They did that. They have more picks where they can add a pice to the OL. If you do that all of a sudden this offensive talent doesn’t look so bad.
But this needs to decide what it wants to be. They need to figure out an identity. Build a dominant unit. I do feel like they have a tendency to just pick players or fill needs instead of seeing a bigger picture
They’ve actually attempted to do that this offseason. Brian Burns, the offensive line additions, and Malik Nabers certainly seems like it’s driving towards a plan of building significant strengths in important areas of the team.
If you listen to his comments, he comes off as hypocritical…..
If Giants thought JJM was better than Jones and a Franchise guy, they certainly would have taken him. Nabers does make the Giants better and quite frankly was the right choice given their convictions and value. Giants most certainly had a plan and they ended up with plan B in this case as NE wouldn’t budge. With DG at the helm, it could be argued that the Giants had no p,an, but I don’t see it with Schoen. Klatt had his agenda and was clearly sticking to it, even after Eisen told him that the Giants tried to trade up and it was out of their control that they couldn’t get their QB.
Have you seen the Belichick analysis of McCarthy on McAfee?
He was effusive with praise. Makes me think if he was still running Pats Central, McCarthy is a Patriot today.
You never liked JJM though. I'm sick of hearing about this woulda coulda shoulda shit. We got a WR prospect whom is elite as they come. It is what it is.
Not following this. I'm merely pointing out what Belichick said. And drawing the conclusion that if he was still in charge, McCarthy is probably a Pat today.
Which, if you further game it out, Maye may be a Giant...
being kind saying "ten" years. I wanted McCarthy but the Giants just didn't have quite the grade on him at that spot. I do think other factors may have contributed (Not Mara).
Have you seen the Belichick analysis of McCarthy on McAfee?
He was effusive with praise. Makes me think if he was still running Pats Central, McCarthy is a Patriot today.
You never liked JJM though. I'm sick of hearing about this woulda coulda shoulda shit. We got a WR prospect whom is elite as they come. It is what it is.
Not following this. I'm merely pointing out what Belichick said. And drawing the conclusion that if he was still in charge, McCarthy is probably a Pat today.
Which, if you further game it out, Maye may be a Giant...
You wanted Nabers over JJM and Penix right? Who would your pick have been? You know what mine would've been. I can't complain though we got a top rated player at a top need value position. He's got the potential to be the best WR in the league. Can't complain, and there is no reason to. This is just entertainment afterall
In comment 16492460 Lines of Scrimmage said:
[quote] being kind saying "ten" years. I wanted McCarthy but the Giants just didn't have quite the grade on him at that spot. I do think other factors may have contributed (Not Mara). [/quote
His point was that the team doesnt have a draft plan. Their plan was to aggressively pursue Maye and if they couldn’t make that happen, to take an elite WR prospect. That was the plan and the contingency. It’s just the take the QB at any cost even if you don’t believe the guy is worth the pick crowd wants to hang this BS that they don’t have a plan because the team who spent countless hours studying these QBs doesn’t agree with their assessment. Typical lazy thinking.
It's just a badly run team with meddling, incompetent ownership. It's too bad.
There's meddling?
I was in the McCarthy camp, still am, but I can get get excited about Nabers at the same time. Klatt did a lot of McCarthy's games in 2023, I do think he's got good insight.
And he's not a Giant-hater because he has a different opinion than you.
He understands what the Giants don't. Turning around a franchise without a QB requires adding a QB. If you don't have a QB, you are nowhere in the NFL. As I said elsewhere regarding Penix, and you can say the same for JJM:
When it comes to comparing Penix to Jones, what matters is upside. Penix has it and Jones doesn't. We know what Jones is, a marginal starter, at best. Sure Penix could be just as bad as Jones or worse than that. But there are still a range of outcomes where he is a superstar, or a very good QB, or merely good. Plus there are outcomes where he is the same level as Jones. Add those together and you probably have 60-70% (or more) where he is as good or better than Jones. And if he is better than Jones, he will easily be as valuable and likely more valuable to the Giants than Nabers (who I love as a prospect), because upgrading from bad to good at QB is more valuable to an NFL team than adding a top WR.
You may not like to hear it, but the Giants don't get the QB position, and they have been bumbling over it for almost a decade, and we have been rewarded with backup quality QB play sice at least 2017. This franchise is woefully mismanaged, and it starts at the top with Mara.
Now maybe they add a developmental QB before the draft is over and we can start to repair what has been an incompetent run with the most important position in sports.
It’s all about evaluating the QB postion
They obviously decided JJM was not an elite prospect
They obviously decided the same for Penix (or that his injury history made him a bad bet)
I liked Penix more than JJM also but defer to their decision here
We will see if they were right
His point was that the team doesnt have a draft plan. Their plan was to aggressively pursue Maye and if they couldn’t make that happen, to take an elite WR prospect. That was the plan and the contingency. It’s just the take the QB at any cost even if you don’t believe the guy is worth the pick crowd wants to hang this BS that they don’t have a plan because the team who spent countless hours studying these QBs doesn’t agree with their assessment. Typical lazy thinking.
That's not a plan. That's hopium.
"aggressively pursue Maye, but then...." lol
a plan is "get Maye"
NE was never passing on Maye unless they were run worse than the NYG. You don't get cute with the QB position and slide down bc you like 2 guys, you take the guy you like best and it seems clear from yesterday a lot more teams liked Maye best than JJM.
Given what we know now the only way they were taking JJM was if Kraft was interfering in the pick (more than has already been reported).
His point was that the team doesnt have a draft plan. Their plan was to aggressively pursue Maye and if they couldn’t make that happen, to take an elite WR prospect. That was the plan and the contingency. It’s just the take the QB at any cost even if you don’t believe the guy is worth the pick crowd wants to hang this BS that they don’t have a plan because the team who spent countless hours studying these QBs doesn’t agree with their assessment. Typical lazy thinking.
That's not a plan. That's hopium.
"aggressively pursue Maye, but then...." lol
a plan is "get Maye"
NE was never passing on Maye unless they were run worse than the NYG. You don't get cute with the QB position and slide down bc you like 2 guys, you take the guy you like best and it seems clear from yesterday a lot more teams liked Maye best than JJM.
Given what we know now the only way they were taking JJM was if Kraft was interfering in the pick (more than has already been reported).
Everyone has a price. If not NE then work on WAS.
the problem is that either Penix or JJ could be better than Jones
His point was that the team doesnt have a draft plan. Their plan was to aggressively pursue Maye and if they couldn’t make that happen, to take an elite WR prospect. That was the plan and the contingency. It’s just the take the QB at any cost even if you don’t believe the guy is worth the pick crowd wants to hang this BS that they don’t have a plan because the team who spent countless hours studying these QBs doesn’t agree with their assessment. Typical lazy thinking.
That's not a plan. That's hopium.
"aggressively pursue Maye, but then...." lol
a plan is "get Maye"
NE was never passing on Maye unless they were run worse than the NYG. You don't get cute with the QB position and slide down bc you like 2 guys, you take the guy you like best and it seems clear from yesterday a lot more teams liked Maye best than JJM.
Given what we know now the only way they were taking JJM was if Kraft was interfering in the pick (more than has already been reported).
Everyone has a price. If not NE then work on WAS.
You really think that Wash is going to trade with a division rival?
I agree with is it never seems the Giants have a plan or cohesion. You see teams who know what they want and go get it, the Giants seems more passive and his description of "ready aim fire" sounded right for how the Giants navigate the draft.
the rest was all platitudes. I really don't think there was anything the Giants could have done in that round of the draft and came out a contender in 2024.
This is such silly conjecture. Joe Schoen has only had 2 drafts and I think he has a well executed plan for both.
your conclusion on what they did, not what they would have done if they traded back.
It's an impossible to know scenario.
im not following? by moving back to 6 they open themselves up to losing out on the top 4 QBs altogether, and not just that but the QB they had a better grade on (Maye).
NE even more than NYG or MIN needed to take a QB yesterday. New regime in year 1, excellent QB draft, and all they did this offseason was 31 year old Brissett on a 1 year deal. I have said since FA there was no way they werent picking a QB. The only question was who they'd have graded highest - but whoever it was they were going to pick at #3. No team risks trading out of a QB they need that makes their grade.
I agree with is it never seems the Giants have a plan or cohesion. You see teams who know what they want and go get it, the Giants seems more passive and his description of "ready aim fire" sounded right for how the Giants navigate the draft.
the rest was all platitudes. I really don't think there was anything the Giants could have done in that round of the draft and came out a contender in 2024.
This is such silly conjecture. Joe Schoen has only had 2 drafts and I think he has a well executed plan for both.
"The plan" I referred to is not just the draft it's the entire roster. FA and extensions influence the draft and poor drafts force FA signings and then push you to draft other positions. Constant reactionary mode. It's not just Schoen and I never said it was nor did the guy in the video.
But, he really pulled off that Jones, decline the 5th year option and sign to a LT deal like Itzhak Perlman on the Stradivarius. Even Schoen has admitted he got that wrong.
Don’t know who thought it was smart to sign DJ to his 5th year option?
Or who thought not re-signing him after the Minny win was smart?
it was just horrible circumstances. The guy who clearly wasn’t a franchise quarterback, looked like one at the critical time the decision had to be made.
your conclusion on what they did, not what they would have done if they traded back.
It's an impossible to know scenario.
im not following? by moving back to 6 they open themselves up to losing out on the top 4 QBs altogether, and not just that but the QB they had a better grade on (Maye).
NE even more than NYG or MIN needed to take a QB yesterday. New regime in year 1, excellent QB draft, and all they did this offseason was 31 year old Brissett on a 1 year deal. I have said since FA there was no way they werent picking a QB. The only question was who they'd have graded highest - but whoever it was they were going to pick at #3. No team risks trading out of a QB they need that makes their grade.
What I am saying is there is absolutely a scenario where NE or WAS could have traded back and possibly not even taken a QB at all in 2024 if they got a Godfather offer. I do not believe a scenario existed where they simply would have said no offer is good enough we are simply not moving out of this spot.
And once they traded down if they took a QB or not who knows, but I believe it was absolutely possible to get them to move.
Also, most of what people say today is irrelevant. It is almost never truthful and you almost never hear any team say anything other than "this is the guy we wanted" (whoever they took).
and pivoting when he isn’t there to your backup plan not a plan?
That means every team who’s hoping for a player and can’t connect on a deal, has no plan. That’s a strange way to look at it.
Schoen wasn’t willing to leverage more than what was reported which seems like a fairly generous offer. Or the Pats were saying no unless we were dumb enough to go Mike Ditka. Setting limits is absolutely a plan.
What I am saying is there is absolutely a scenario where NE or WAS could have traded back and possibly not even taken a QB at all in 2024 if they got a Godfather offer. I do not believe a scenario existed where they simply would have said no offer is good enough we are simply not moving out of this spot.
ok and what im saying is no matter the offer it would have been a bad decision. there is no offer that you say yes to if you have your future franchise QB in your sights. if i had maye graded in the franchise qb tier and no other qbs in that tier there is no trade id have said yes to.
the purpose of having lots of high picks in a draft is to get a franchise qb. its not to use your chance at a franchise qb to get more picks.
is in year 3. Not 11. He doesn’t bear the stain of the previous regimes . He drafted a great player last night, who win early in the play and make it easier for their quarterbacks to move the ball.
As far as Maye, my guess is NE asked for a Bogart price . Maybe it will come out later . The Giants didn’t like JJ. Now you just wait to see if McCarthy , Nix and Penix turn out to be difference makers at QB.
I didn’t carry a brief heading into this draft . Just get it done . You get paid millions to do this . I get paid reflux . Do your jobs . The Giants roster is appreciably better than it was when Schoen was hired . Year 3 will
Answer a bunch of questions .
The worse part is if JJM turns into a very good QB
That's all we're gonna hear and think about for the rest of his career. Nabers is gonna be a great player but he better be a choir boy and hopefully if He's great we can afford to keep him.
What I am saying is there is absolutely a scenario where NE or WAS could have traded back and possibly not even taken a QB at all in 2024 if they got a Godfather offer. I do not believe a scenario existed where they simply would have said no offer is good enough we are simply not moving out of this spot.
ok and what im saying is no matter the offer it would have been a bad decision. there is no offer that you say yes to if you have your future franchise QB in your sights. if i had maye graded in the franchise qb tier and no other qbs in that tier there is no trade id have said yes to.
the purpose of having lots of high picks in a draft is to get a franchise qb. its not to use your chance at a franchise qb to get more picks.
I don't disagree with this point, but NFL teams make bad decisions all the time.
His point was that the team doesnt have a draft plan. Their plan was to aggressively pursue Maye and if they couldn’t make that happen, to take an elite WR prospect. That was the plan and the contingency. It’s just the take the QB at any cost even if you don’t believe the guy is worth the pick crowd wants to hang this BS that they don’t have a plan because the team who spent countless hours studying these QBs doesn’t agree with their assessment. Typical lazy thinking.
That's not a plan. That's hopium.
"aggressively pursue Maye, but then...." lol
a plan is "get Maye"
NE was never passing on Maye unless they were run worse than the NYG. You don't get cute with the QB position and slide down bc you like 2 guys, you take the guy you like best and it seems clear from yesterday a lot more teams liked Maye best than JJM.
Given what we know now the only way they were taking JJM was if Kraft was interfering in the pick (more than has already been reported).
the only thing that slightly got me thinking about picking #3 was the asshat who reported the 3 team trade where NE went to #4 and took JJM who they "liked better", but that also always sounded incredibly farfetched.
RE: The teams he lists as being good… how did they
get their QBs????? Purdy was the literal last pick of the draft and stars on a stacked roster. The Rams had to give the Lions TWO firsts and a third round pick along with Goff to facilitate that trade. He wasn’t exactly in high demand. Now he stars on a stacked roster.
The lesson is that when you build your roster up to a certain level, you allow yourselves more avenues to add the QB who you can eventually win with.
The problem is we don’t draft Qbs. Ever. The last QB we drafted was Daniel Jones.
No, Joel - what the Giants don't have is YOUR plan, or the ability to force other teams to conform to whatever it happens to be.
The Giants receiving corps probably got better last night. If the OL protection can improve to being league average (instead of bottom five), we might actually be decent.
Have you seen the Belichick analysis of McCarthy on McAfee?
He was effusive with praise. Makes me think if he was still running Pats Central, McCarthy is a Patriot today.
You never liked JJM though. I'm sick of hearing about this woulda coulda shoulda shit. We got a WR prospect whom is elite as they come. It is what it is.
I really hope Nabers is the next Tyreek Hill but you never know- WRs bust too. There is no sure thing and I don’t understand fans who have already marked him down as an all pro.
Quote:
why everyone on this board gets offended when someone rips the Giants. He's not wrong. Our drafting has been suspect over 10 years. Bottom Half is a fair comment.
QB is the most important spot on the team, we didn't draft one, He's allowed to criticize us. Barring an absolute miracle with Daniel Jones, we are going to be desperate next year for a QB.
2025 is the wrong year to be desperate for a QB.
I like Dart and Ward then there's Sanders, Ewers, Beck, Milroe, Allar and others. There will be 3-4 taken in the 1st and 2 will likely end up good. You watch a lot of college football? How can you tell me Jaxson Dart doesn't have everything needed to have a good season and emerge as a promising prospect? Then Cam Ward was in the early Heisman conversations with no help at WSU.
QB is the most important spot on the team, we didn't draft one, He's allowed to criticize us. Barring an absolute miracle with Daniel Jones, we are going to be desperate next year for a QB.
+1, although our drafting has been awful for more than 10 years. Terps is also right when he says the Giants are just a badly run team with meddling, incompetent ownership. proven out time and time again.
He understands what the Giants don't. Turning around a franchise without a QB requires adding a QB. If you don't have a QB, you are nowhere in the NFL. As I said elsewhere regarding Penix, and you can say the same for JJM:
When it comes to comparing Penix to Jones, what matters is upside. Penix has it and Jones doesn't. We know what Jones is, a marginal starter, at best. Sure Penix could be just as bad as Jones or worse than that. But there are still a range of outcomes where he is a superstar, or a very good QB, or merely good. Plus there are outcomes where he is the same level as Jones. Add those together and you probably have 60-70% (or more) where he is as good or better than Jones. And if he is better than Jones, he will easily be as valuable and likely more valuable to the Giants than Nabers (who I love as a prospect), because upgrading from bad to good at QB is more valuable to an NFL team than adding a top WR.
You may not like to hear it, but the Giants don't get the QB position, and they have been bumbling over it for almost a decade, and we have been rewarded with backup quality QB play sice at least 2017. This franchise is woefully mismanaged, and it starts at the top with Mara.
Now maybe they add a developmental QB before the draft is over and we can start to repair what has been an incompetent run with the most important position in sports.
QB is the most important spot on the team, we didn't draft one, He's allowed to criticize us. Barring an absolute miracle with Daniel Jones, we are going to be desperate next year for a QB.
The teams he lists as good teams… how did they get their QBs?
But this needs to decide what it wants to be. They need to figure out an identity. Build a dominant unit. I do feel like they have a tendency to just pick players or fill needs instead of seeing a bigger picture
Goes back to Reese. The team has been drafting for shit for a decade..
Quote:
Have you seen the Belichick analysis of McCarthy on McAfee?
He was effusive with praise. Makes me think if he was still running Pats Central, McCarthy is a Patriot today.
You never liked JJM though. I'm sick of hearing about this woulda coulda shoulda shit. We got a WR prospect whom is elite as they come. It is what it is.
Not following this. I'm merely pointing out what Belichick said. And drawing the conclusion that if he was still in charge, McCarthy is probably a Pat today.
Which, if you further game it out, Maye may be a Giant...
But this needs to decide what it wants to be. They need to figure out an identity. Build a dominant unit. I do feel like they have a tendency to just pick players or fill needs instead of seeing a bigger picture
They’ve actually attempted to do that this offseason. Brian Burns, the offensive line additions, and Malik Nabers certainly seems like it’s driving towards a plan of building significant strengths in important areas of the team.
Quote:
In comment 16492348 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Have you seen the Belichick analysis of McCarthy on McAfee?
He was effusive with praise. Makes me think if he was still running Pats Central, McCarthy is a Patriot today.
You never liked JJM though. I'm sick of hearing about this woulda coulda shoulda shit. We got a WR prospect whom is elite as they come. It is what it is.
Not following this. I'm merely pointing out what Belichick said. And drawing the conclusion that if he was still in charge, McCarthy is probably a Pat today.
Which, if you further game it out, Maye may be a Giant...
Fair enough, I misunderstood my bad.
Quote:
In comment 16492348 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Have you seen the Belichick analysis of McCarthy on McAfee?
He was effusive with praise. Makes me think if he was still running Pats Central, McCarthy is a Patriot today.
You never liked JJM though. I'm sick of hearing about this woulda coulda shoulda shit. We got a WR prospect whom is elite as they come. It is what it is.
Not following this. I'm merely pointing out what Belichick said. And drawing the conclusion that if he was still in charge, McCarthy is probably a Pat today.
Which, if you further game it out, Maye may be a Giant...
You wanted Nabers over JJM and Penix right? Who would your pick have been? You know what mine would've been. I can't complain though we got a top rated player at a top need value position. He's got the potential to be the best WR in the league. Can't complain, and there is no reason to. This is just entertainment afterall
if we are going back 10 years of course they havent been good drafting - that's why they are on their 3rd GM and 5th head coach.
[quote] being kind saying "ten" years. I wanted McCarthy but the Giants just didn't have quite the grade on him at that spot. I do think other factors may have contributed (Not Mara). [/quote
What factors? The 70 million minimum owed to DJ?
That's not a plan. That's hopium.
"aggressively pursue Maye, but then...." lol
a plan is "get Maye"
I don't think anyone thought McCarthy would come out. So, scratch him from your list.
I think Penix was in a day-one conversation because he did have a very good year w/UDub in 2022. It's not like he came out of nowhere.
Despite his great year at Oregon in 2023, I am still surprised Nix went #12 last night.
I totally agree about Daniels. He legitimately exploded from a day three pick to an elite prospect.
There's meddling?
I was in the McCarthy camp, still am, but I can get get excited about Nabers at the same time. Klatt did a lot of McCarthy's games in 2023, I do think he's got good insight.
He understands what the Giants don't. Turning around a franchise without a QB requires adding a QB. If you don't have a QB, you are nowhere in the NFL. As I said elsewhere regarding Penix, and you can say the same for JJM:
When it comes to comparing Penix to Jones, what matters is upside. Penix has it and Jones doesn't. We know what Jones is, a marginal starter, at best. Sure Penix could be just as bad as Jones or worse than that. But there are still a range of outcomes where he is a superstar, or a very good QB, or merely good. Plus there are outcomes where he is the same level as Jones. Add those together and you probably have 60-70% (or more) where he is as good or better than Jones. And if he is better than Jones, he will easily be as valuable and likely more valuable to the Giants than Nabers (who I love as a prospect), because upgrading from bad to good at QB is more valuable to an NFL team than adding a top WR.
You may not like to hear it, but the Giants don't get the QB position, and they have been bumbling over it for almost a decade, and we have been rewarded with backup quality QB play sice at least 2017. This franchise is woefully mismanaged, and it starts at the top with Mara.
Now maybe they add a developmental QB before the draft is over and we can start to repair what has been an incompetent run with the most important position in sports.
It’s all about evaluating the QB postion
They obviously decided JJM was not an elite prospect
They obviously decided the same for Penix (or that his injury history made him a bad bet)
I liked Penix more than JJM also but defer to their decision here
We will see if they were right
Quote:
His point was that the team doesnt have a draft plan. Their plan was to aggressively pursue Maye and if they couldn’t make that happen, to take an elite WR prospect. That was the plan and the contingency. It’s just the take the QB at any cost even if you don’t believe the guy is worth the pick crowd wants to hang this BS that they don’t have a plan because the team who spent countless hours studying these QBs doesn’t agree with their assessment. Typical lazy thinking.
That's not a plan. That's hopium.
"aggressively pursue Maye, but then...." lol
a plan is "get Maye"
NE was never passing on Maye unless they were run worse than the NYG. You don't get cute with the QB position and slide down bc you like 2 guys, you take the guy you like best and it seems clear from yesterday a lot more teams liked Maye best than JJM.
Given what we know now the only way they were taking JJM was if Kraft was interfering in the pick (more than has already been reported).
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In comment 16492412 UberAlias said:
Quote:
His point was that the team doesnt have a draft plan. Their plan was to aggressively pursue Maye and if they couldn’t make that happen, to take an elite WR prospect. That was the plan and the contingency. It’s just the take the QB at any cost even if you don’t believe the guy is worth the pick crowd wants to hang this BS that they don’t have a plan because the team who spent countless hours studying these QBs doesn’t agree with their assessment. Typical lazy thinking.
That's not a plan. That's hopium.
"aggressively pursue Maye, but then...." lol
a plan is "get Maye"
NE was never passing on Maye unless they were run worse than the NYG. You don't get cute with the QB position and slide down bc you like 2 guys, you take the guy you like best and it seems clear from yesterday a lot more teams liked Maye best than JJM.
Given what we know now the only way they were taking JJM was if Kraft was interfering in the pick (more than has already been reported).
Everyone has a price. If not NE then work on WAS.
i'm fine with adding an elite WR prospect. but i certainly understand the frustration with not taking a QB. i'm definitely frustrated.
the only thing close is Bryce Young last year but Chicago didnt take a QB, they had Fields and gave him one last shot.
It's an impossible to know scenario.
Just accept it, this team is poorly run and poorly directed.
Yeah he's fine With JJ not being Rated As a top 6 guy.
He's just another guy that's trying to be right no matter what the circumstances, So he talks out of both sides of his mouth.
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In comment 16492476 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 16492412 UberAlias said:
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His point was that the team doesnt have a draft plan. Their plan was to aggressively pursue Maye and if they couldn’t make that happen, to take an elite WR prospect. That was the plan and the contingency. It’s just the take the QB at any cost even if you don’t believe the guy is worth the pick crowd wants to hang this BS that they don’t have a plan because the team who spent countless hours studying these QBs doesn’t agree with their assessment. Typical lazy thinking.
That's not a plan. That's hopium.
"aggressively pursue Maye, but then...." lol
a plan is "get Maye"
NE was never passing on Maye unless they were run worse than the NYG. You don't get cute with the QB position and slide down bc you like 2 guys, you take the guy you like best and it seems clear from yesterday a lot more teams liked Maye best than JJM.
Given what we know now the only way they were taking JJM was if Kraft was interfering in the pick (more than has already been reported).
Everyone has a price. If not NE then work on WAS.
You really think that Wash is going to trade with a division rival?
Come on man
the rest was all platitudes. I really don't think there was anything the Giants could have done in that round of the draft and came out a contender in 2024.
This is such silly conjecture. Joe Schoen has only had 2 drafts and I think he has a well executed plan for both.
It's an impossible to know scenario.
im not following? by moving back to 6 they open themselves up to losing out on the top 4 QBs altogether, and not just that but the QB they had a better grade on (Maye).
NE even more than NYG or MIN needed to take a QB yesterday. New regime in year 1, excellent QB draft, and all they did this offseason was 31 year old Brissett on a 1 year deal. I have said since FA there was no way they werent picking a QB. The only question was who they'd have graded highest - but whoever it was they were going to pick at #3. No team risks trading out of a QB they need that makes their grade.
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I agree with is it never seems the Giants have a plan or cohesion. You see teams who know what they want and go get it, the Giants seems more passive and his description of "ready aim fire" sounded right for how the Giants navigate the draft.
the rest was all platitudes. I really don't think there was anything the Giants could have done in that round of the draft and came out a contender in 2024.
This is such silly conjecture. Joe Schoen has only had 2 drafts and I think he has a well executed plan for both.
"The plan" I referred to is not just the draft it's the entire roster. FA and extensions influence the draft and poor drafts force FA signings and then push you to draft other positions. Constant reactionary mode. It's not just Schoen and I never said it was nor did the guy in the video.
But, he really pulled off that Jones, decline the 5th year option and sign to a LT deal like Itzhak Perlman on the Stradivarius. Even Schoen has admitted he got that wrong.
Or who thought not re-signing him after the Minny win was smart?
it was just horrible circumstances. The guy who clearly wasn’t a franchise quarterback, looked like one at the critical time the decision had to be made.
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your conclusion on what they did, not what they would have done if they traded back.
It's an impossible to know scenario.
im not following? by moving back to 6 they open themselves up to losing out on the top 4 QBs altogether, and not just that but the QB they had a better grade on (Maye).
NE even more than NYG or MIN needed to take a QB yesterday. New regime in year 1, excellent QB draft, and all they did this offseason was 31 year old Brissett on a 1 year deal. I have said since FA there was no way they werent picking a QB. The only question was who they'd have graded highest - but whoever it was they were going to pick at #3. No team risks trading out of a QB they need that makes their grade.
What I am saying is there is absolutely a scenario where NE or WAS could have traded back and possibly not even taken a QB at all in 2024 if they got a Godfather offer. I do not believe a scenario existed where they simply would have said no offer is good enough we are simply not moving out of this spot.
And once they traded down if they took a QB or not who knows, but I believe it was absolutely possible to get them to move.
Also, most of what people say today is irrelevant. It is almost never truthful and you almost never hear any team say anything other than "this is the guy we wanted" (whoever they took).
That means every team who’s hoping for a player and can’t connect on a deal, has no plan. That’s a strange way to look at it.
Schoen wasn’t willing to leverage more than what was reported which seems like a fairly generous offer. Or the Pats were saying no unless we were dumb enough to go Mike Ditka. Setting limits is absolutely a plan.
What I am saying is there is absolutely a scenario where NE or WAS could have traded back and possibly not even taken a QB at all in 2024 if they got a Godfather offer. I do not believe a scenario existed where they simply would have said no offer is good enough we are simply not moving out of this spot.
ok and what im saying is no matter the offer it would have been a bad decision. there is no offer that you say yes to if you have your future franchise QB in your sights. if i had maye graded in the franchise qb tier and no other qbs in that tier there is no trade id have said yes to.
the purpose of having lots of high picks in a draft is to get a franchise qb. its not to use your chance at a franchise qb to get more picks.
As far as Maye, my guess is NE asked for a Bogart price . Maybe it will come out later . The Giants didn’t like JJ. Now you just wait to see if McCarthy , Nix and Penix turn out to be difference makers at QB.
I didn’t carry a brief heading into this draft . Just get it done . You get paid millions to do this . I get paid reflux . Do your jobs . The Giants roster is appreciably better than it was when Schoen was hired . Year 3 will
Answer a bunch of questions .
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What I am saying is there is absolutely a scenario where NE or WAS could have traded back and possibly not even taken a QB at all in 2024 if they got a Godfather offer. I do not believe a scenario existed where they simply would have said no offer is good enough we are simply not moving out of this spot.
ok and what im saying is no matter the offer it would have been a bad decision. there is no offer that you say yes to if you have your future franchise QB in your sights. if i had maye graded in the franchise qb tier and no other qbs in that tier there is no trade id have said yes to.
the purpose of having lots of high picks in a draft is to get a franchise qb. its not to use your chance at a franchise qb to get more picks.
I don't disagree with this point, but NFL teams make bad decisions all the time.
He'll be gone in another year or two at this rate.
I don't disagree with this point, but NFL teams make bad decisions all the time.
right but that's essentially what my point has been re NE/#3 for a month (see my bolded comment below).
In comment 16492507 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16492412 UberAlias said:
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His point was that the team doesnt have a draft plan. Their plan was to aggressively pursue Maye and if they couldn’t make that happen, to take an elite WR prospect. That was the plan and the contingency. It’s just the take the QB at any cost even if you don’t believe the guy is worth the pick crowd wants to hang this BS that they don’t have a plan because the team who spent countless hours studying these QBs doesn’t agree with their assessment. Typical lazy thinking.
That's not a plan. That's hopium.
"aggressively pursue Maye, but then...." lol
a plan is "get Maye"
NE was never passing on Maye unless they were run worse than the NYG. You don't get cute with the QB position and slide down bc you like 2 guys, you take the guy you like best and it seems clear from yesterday a lot more teams liked Maye best than JJM.
Given what we know now the only way they were taking JJM was if Kraft was interfering in the pick (more than has already been reported).
the only thing that slightly got me thinking about picking #3 was the asshat who reported the 3 team trade where NE went to #4 and took JJM who they "liked better", but that also always sounded incredibly farfetched.
The lesson is that when you build your roster up to a certain level, you allow yourselves more avenues to add the QB who you can eventually win with.
The problem is we don’t draft Qbs. Ever. The last QB we drafted was Daniel Jones.
No, Joel - what the Giants don't have is YOUR plan, or the ability to force other teams to conform to whatever it happens to be.
The Giants receiving corps probably got better last night. If the OL protection can improve to being league average (instead of bottom five), we might actually be decent.
Yeah he's fine With JJ not being Rated As a top 6 guy.
He's just another guy that's trying to be right no matter what the circumstances, So he talks out of both sides of his mouth.
+1
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Have you seen the Belichick analysis of McCarthy on McAfee?
He was effusive with praise. Makes me think if he was still running Pats Central, McCarthy is a Patriot today.
You never liked JJM though. I'm sick of hearing about this woulda coulda shoulda shit. We got a WR prospect whom is elite as they come. It is what it is.
I really hope Nabers is the next Tyreek Hill but you never know- WRs bust too. There is no sure thing and I don’t understand fans who have already marked him down as an all pro.