Would have LOVED to see a new face leading this team. No doubt about it. Drake is a special, special talent . But it didn't happen , so it's time to move on.
With that said, if healthy , #8 entering year number 6 might finally have legitimate reasons to play with a new level of confidence since becoming a New York Giant. Confidence for a QB I would think is critical and when they got it, we can see what said Quarterback is capable of.
Carmen Bracillo could be the single biggest acquisition including Malik Nabers this offseason. 85 sacks last year. I still can't get over that number. It's literally obscene. Bobby Johnson was a disaster. Not one OL developed under him. Lineman that left here arguably became better elsewhere. In contrast, Carmen took two fairly average offensive lines for two different squads and led them both to top 12 finishes statistically. Bracillo getting 5 elephants to play like 1 might be the biggest impact for this team. Have high hopes for this guy. He might be the best coach we have had since Pat Flaherty.
Offensive lines that consistently win in pass pro is something us fans have not seen in a decade plus. The bar has been set so low, its easy to forget what kind of impact good OL play has for a QB and the offense in general.
On to 'like a good Malik Nabers'....Mr.Jones finally has a WR who is just going to flat out dominate his matchups. Someone mentioned a bigger Tyreek Hill. Love that comp. Only took 6 years. LOL. In contrast Eli had about 7-8 different offensive skill players at one time or another who made at least on pro-bowl in his career.
#8 will also have Wandale entering his 3rd season who I kinda hope is going to be a poor mans Amon Ra for us. He's had multiple 100 yard games already and his quick separation ability is special. Hyatt should hopefully improve on the nuance of his route running and that deep speed we already know will force safeties to focus attention away from the other guys.
It's potentially exciting as we talk about a QB having a proper support system and now he in theory will have it. I get we thought that was supposed to happen last year but it just......didn't. The line was even worse than the year previous which is no small feat in itself.
Many have lost patience when an offense isn't playing well for a long time. Of course, the QB invariably takes a large portion of the blame. While DJ certainly couldn't do much with a little and maybe it could be argued other QB's could, we might now get to see what he can do when he has more than just a little to work with.
As I said on another thread, most people seem to forget that Jones got a standing ovation at home after leading us to a playoff clinching win with a 4 TD game (2 passing, 2 rushing) on Jan 1, '23. Then he threw for 300 + yds to beat a 13 win team on the road for our 1st playoff win in a LONG time.
Our OL was worse last yr than the yr before. Our best got hurt early in game 1. Jones didn't have a healthy Andrew Thomas in any of the games he played.
People keep saying these are just excuses, but if a race car driver has engine problems with his car, is that an illegitimate excuse?
I also agree that Bricillo could be one of the most important additions.
We thought no more excuses for Jones going into last yr, then somehow the OL was worse!
This is definitely the yr for no more excuses
The injury history especially the neck worries me. However the team might have a totally different feel with the WR1 and a properly coached OL.
With Lock and the attempted trade I think they'll sit Jones if it looks like last year. And he'll be behind the 8 ball without the full use of his legs. I wanted a new QB, now obviously want Jones to succeed, but do think there's a solid chance you're right.
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think Luck will play more than Jones this year, and will start week one. If Tyrod and DeVito did better than Jones, Luck almost certainly will.
With Lock and the attempted trade I think they'll sit Jones if it looks like last year. And he'll be behind the 8 ball without the full use of his legs. I wanted a new QB, now obviously want Jones to succeed, but do think there's a solid chance you're right.
I think one of two things happen - the Giants have decided they can’t risk playing Jones because of the injury guarantee which means they will release him when he can pass a physical, or they will start Jones when he is healthy.
The one scenario I can’t see is an open QB competition where Lock plays over a healthy Jones. If Jones is here he will be the starter.
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In comment 16494606 AcidTest said:
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think Luck will play more than Jones this year, and will start week one. If Tyrod and DeVito did better than Jones, Luck almost certainly will.
With Lock and the attempted trade I think they'll sit Jones if it looks like last year. And he'll be behind the 8 ball without the full use of his legs. I wanted a new QB, now obviously want Jones to succeed, but do think there's a solid chance you're right.
I think one of two things happen - the Giants have decided they can’t risk playing Jones because of the injury guarantee which means they will release him when he can pass a physical, or they will start Jones when he is healthy.
The one scenario I can’t see is an open QB competition where Lock plays over a healthy Jones. If Jones is here he will be the starter.
I tend to believe that way too. However what happens if Jones isn't ready until week 6 and Lock is like 4-2 as the starter and looking pretty good. Do they start Danny anyways?
And stars_and_stripes I couldnt agree more with what you posted. The OL never improved under Bobby Johnson and Carmen Bricillo may be the reason to finally feel a turnaround is coming and sustainable, and of course adding 2 FA OL helps. One of which he worked with before.
And finally a WR1 to open up the offense and threaten defenses.
And lean on the defense.
And lean on the defense.
+1 That was ridiculous and speaks again to Bobby Johnson as well and Daboll. An OL needs reps and to gel smh
DJ facing 8-10 months ACL recovery - ( New Window )
And stars_and_stripes I couldnt agree more with what you posted. The OL never improved under Bobby Johnson and Carmen Bricillo may be the reason to finally feel a turnaround is coming and sustainable, and of course adding 2 FA OL helps. One of which he worked with before.
And finally a WR1 to open up the offense and threaten defenses.
I admit I fell in love with possibly getting Maye. No doubt we tried. Short of that when I look at DJ, I do see a functional sometimes impressive QB when the line holds up and WRs get open.
He isn't perfect by any means, but I think if he finally has a well coached OL and a WR1 we might see a more consistent higher level of production.
Pinnock, McFadden, Flott, McCloud have played 50%+ snaps and shown ability. They can be part of a solution.
Simmons and Ojulari are wild card role players with obvious talents if used correctly. Phillips/Mills/Nacho not so much wild cards but can be an effective vet role players.
What they need beyond that group are quality depth and 1 or 2 break outs from their draft picks over the last 3 drafts - Nubin, Phillips, Belton, Davidson, Riley, Beavers, Hawkins, Owens, Fox, Anderson.
Shane Bowen may be the most important coach in the building right now. If he is spags #2 this can be a fun year.
If Waller retires they will unlock more cap space to add another veteran or two also. a Micah Hyde, Calais Campbell, or Stephon Gilmore could help a lot. even at age 37 Calais had 7 sacks and 42 pressures last year. I'd like to put that guy next to Dex.
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and will be 10 months removed in Sept minus setbacks. DJ even stated he expects to ready for training camp.
And stars_and_stripes I couldnt agree more with what you posted. The OL never improved under Bobby Johnson and Carmen Bricillo may be the reason to finally feel a turnaround is coming and sustainable, and of course adding 2 FA OL helps. One of which he worked with before.
And finally a WR1 to open up the offense and threaten defenses.
I admit I fell in love with possibly getting Maye. No doubt we tried. Short of that when I look at DJ, I do see a functional sometimes impressive QB when the line holds up and WRs get open.
He isn't perfect by any means, but I think if he finally has a well coached OL and a WR1 we might see a more consistent higher level of production.
Agreed he's had moments and glimpses, and now hopefully with some consistent OL play and a real game/field changer at WR, we may finally see DJ take another leap forward. I think that's a very plausible and real outcome. Keeping my fingers crossed. Here's to a much better season than last year's train wreck.
Pinnock, McFadden, Flott, McCloud have played 50%+ snaps and shown ability. They can be part of a solution.
Simmons and Ojulari are wild card role players with obvious talents if used correctly. Phillips/Mills/Nacho not so much wild cards but can be an effective vet role players.
What they need beyond that group are quality depth and 1 or 2 break outs from their draft picks over the last 3 drafts - Nubin, Phillips, Belton, Davidson, Riley, Beavers, Hawkins, Owens, Fox, Anderson.
Shane Bowen may be the most important coach in the building right now. If he is spags #2 this can be a fun year.
If Waller retires they will unlock more cap space to add another veteran or two also. a Micah Hyde, Calais Campbell, or Stephon Gilmore could help a lot. even at age 37 Calais had 7 sacks and 42 pressures last year. I'd like to put that guy next to Dex.
Is there a reason to be as optimistic about Bowen considering he played under a defensive minded head coach? Was the defense more Vrabel or his.
If Hyatt shows some second year progression I think we have our number 2, and we have our slot in wandale. We have some weapons in the wr room. Just need the line to give the qb some time to throw.
Hopefully Waller comes back and turns some things in his life around. His numbers weren’t that bad last year when he played. Other options on offense should open the door more for him.
I was kinda hoping for a Rb in day two but I am happy with what we did.
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In comment 16494714 Four Aces said:
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and will be 10 months removed in Sept minus setbacks. DJ even stated he expects to ready for training camp.
And stars_and_stripes I couldnt agree more with what you posted. The OL never improved under Bobby Johnson and Carmen Bricillo may be the reason to finally feel a turnaround is coming and sustainable, and of course adding 2 FA OL helps. One of which he worked with before.
And finally a WR1 to open up the offense and threaten defenses.
I admit I fell in love with possibly getting Maye. No doubt we tried. Short of that when I look at DJ, I do see a functional sometimes impressive QB when the line holds up and WRs get open.
He isn't perfect by any means, but I think if he finally has a well coached OL and a WR1 we might see a more consistent higher level of production.
Agreed he's had moments and glimpses, and now hopefully with some consistent OL play and a real game/field changer at WR, we may finally see DJ take another leap forward. I think that's a very plausible and real outcome. Keeping my fingers crossed. Here's to a much better season than last year's train wreck.
ACLs heal. This isn't the devastating injury it used to be. Let him beat out Lock. Lock is a step up from Taylor. If healthy I believe he will.
Pinnock, McFadden, Flott, McCloud have played 50%+ snaps and shown ability. They can be part of a solution.
Simmons and Ojulari are wild card role players with obvious talents if used correctly. Phillips/Mills/Nacho not so much wild cards but can be an effective vet role players.
What they need beyond that group are quality depth and 1 or 2 break outs from their draft picks over the last 3 drafts - Nubin, Phillips, Belton, Davidson, Riley, Beavers, Hawkins, Owens, Fox, Anderson.
Shane Bowen may be the most important coach in the building right now. If he is spags #2 this can be a fun year.
If Waller retires they will unlock more cap space to add another veteran or two also. a Micah Hyde, Calais Campbell, or Stephon Gilmore could help a lot. even at age 37 Calais had 7 sacks and 42 pressures last year. I'd like to put that guy next to Dex.
The defense is the crown jewel here lol. And Thank God for that! The offense is more projecting; however the defense has top 10 potential if we nailed those picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds and players like Banks, Thibs, Hawkins, Flott, McFaddeb take another step in their progression.
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He should be cut the second after he passes a physical.
Guess not. LOL. If that's the case then no hope for next year either. Unless Drew Lock is the saving grace.
Maybe Neal's biggest issue wasn't the feet as much as recognition when trying to execute Johnson's techniques. All OL seemed to have trouble picking up simple stunts and twists. Seemed more systemic to me.
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Lawrence, Okereke, Burns, Thibs, Banks are all very good players. Any of those guys could go to a pro bowl next year. Those are 5 starters who should all play 70%+ snaps. Okereke and Banks could be 100%ers.
Pinnock, McFadden, Flott, McCloud have played 50%+ snaps and shown ability. They can be part of a solution.
Simmons and Ojulari are wild card role players with obvious talents if used correctly. Phillips/Mills/Nacho not so much wild cards but can be an effective vet role players.
What they need beyond that group are quality depth and 1 or 2 break outs from their draft picks over the last 3 drafts - Nubin, Phillips, Belton, Davidson, Riley, Beavers, Hawkins, Owens, Fox, Anderson.
Shane Bowen may be the most important coach in the building right now. If he is spags #2 this can be a fun year.
If Waller retires they will unlock more cap space to add another veteran or two also. a Micah Hyde, Calais Campbell, or Stephon Gilmore could help a lot. even at age 37 Calais had 7 sacks and 42 pressures last year. I'd like to put that guy next to Dex.
Is there a reason to be as optimistic about Bowen considering he played under a defensive minded head coach? Was the defense more Vrabel or his.
that is the question. i have no idea. he could be james bettcher part 2 or spags part 2.
that's why i think he's the most important guy in building. a lot riding on which one he is closer to.
2. I won’t go so far as to say he’s underrated here, but I don’t think he is as terrible as some purport.
3. Its been over a decade since the Giants had an above average OL. Not even elite, above average. Nothing changes until the OL changes.
Lots of reasons they’ve sucked, OL play is right at the top. Be optimistic if you like but I no longer have optimism. I expect mediocrity until they show otherwise.
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In comment 16494729 Eric on Li said:
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Lawrence, Okereke, Burns, Thibs, Banks are all very good players. Any of those guys could go to a pro bowl next year. Those are 5 starters who should all play 70%+ snaps. Okereke and Banks could be 100%ers.
Pinnock, McFadden, Flott, McCloud have played 50%+ snaps and shown ability. They can be part of a solution.
Simmons and Ojulari are wild card role players with obvious talents if used correctly. Phillips/Mills/Nacho not so much wild cards but can be an effective vet role players.
What they need beyond that group are quality depth and 1 or 2 break outs from their draft picks over the last 3 drafts - Nubin, Phillips, Belton, Davidson, Riley, Beavers, Hawkins, Owens, Fox, Anderson.
Shane Bowen may be the most important coach in the building right now. If he is spags #2 this can be a fun year.
If Waller retires they will unlock more cap space to add another veteran or two also. a Micah Hyde, Calais Campbell, or Stephon Gilmore could help a lot. even at age 37 Calais had 7 sacks and 42 pressures last year. I'd like to put that guy next to Dex.
Is there a reason to be as optimistic about Bowen considering he played under a defensive minded head coach? Was the defense more Vrabel or his.
that is the question. i have no idea. he could be james bettcher part 2 or spags part 2.
that's why i think he's the most important guy in building. a lot riding on which one he is closer to.
Yeah I feel like Bracillo is the more known quantity. Resume not super long but he did it with two teams when neither had great lineman. This Bowen guy had Vrabel and then they hired a defensive advisor to help him. He is a total unknown to me. He could be a great defensive mind in the making or another Bettcher like you said
2. I won’t go so far as to say he’s underrated here, but I don’t think he is as terrible as some purport.
3. Its been over a decade since the Giants had an above average OL. Not even elite, above average. Nothing changes until the OL changes.
Lots of reasons they’ve sucked, OL play is right at the top. Be optimistic if you like but I no longer have optimism. I expect mediocrity until they show otherwise.
I’m with you. Give me a reason to believe things will be different this year. I have watched Daniel Jones for years and his play has been consistently subpar. Until he plays better I won’t believe he is capable of playing better. I think a good team around him can better mask his deficiencies, which is my only source of hope for 2024. This team has a very low ceiling without an NFL level QB.
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Any pro QB should be able to play pitch and catch with them, even Daniel. Hopefully Waller retires and Bellinger resumes his role as a complementary piece in the passing game.
They will have to get open quickly, that oline is in flux. Daniel Jones is a top tier qb, hopefully the oline can keep him from getting pounded!
Drugs are bad.
The last 5 years, all the hits taken and his overall confidence is shot. And the injuries are very concerning so much so I wouldn’t play him.
Time to move on.
If he is playing the boos at MetLife will be unbearable and affect him even more.
I hope Lock gets the nod, stays healthy and we see what he can do for the year.
Hopefully the OL solidifies then next draft get your QB.
if Drew Lock is our only starter next year.
Look at the team speed now. Jalin Hyatt, Nabers, Theo Johnson and Dante 'Mr 4.27' Miller.
if Drew Lock is our only starter next year.
This is depressing, lol. Lock sucks.
Nabors may very well be the 2nd most exciting Giants player I will see other than Lawrence Taylor. And long term the Giants can do well with him-- BUT - BUT - if Jefferson and Hill can't lead their teams to any playoff success - then why with a worse QB do you think Nabors can?
SO, if Nabors is at their level, and we have #8 leading our team in which we have heard for example SY mention how he is slow to process even when he does have time. In addition we know his legs won't be "as good" which was a big part of his game. And we know that he IS injury prone. And we sort of accept that the OL AT BEST AT BEST will be "mediocre" - and that is a huge thing-- then where do you think the Giants are going???? To mediocrity at its best, right?
SO if we are going to be mediocre for several years because of Nabor's greatness - then what does "optimism" really mean? To have the same ceiling that Jefferson's Vikes and Hill's Dolph's have?
Some fans complain that the Giants should have tanked at the end – this winning enough games hurts in a way (for the record I never want to see the Giants tank). But if Nabors is going to be so great like Jefferson and Hill and all they appear to be doing is leading their team to slightly above mediocrity, then isn’t it about the same that “winning” will keep them at that same level of mediocrity? Then that wouldn’t be much of a pinch of optimism, would it?
Hill=Nabers
Devon Achane=Dante Miller
+Theo Johnson and Slayton
Obviously not the same level as there is projection with Hyatt and Miller.
But You can't fake speed and we got it now!
Nabors may very well be the 2nd most exciting Giants player I will see other than Lawrence Taylor. And long term the Giants can do well with him-- BUT - BUT - if Jefferson and Hill can't lead their teams to any playoff success - then why with a worse QB do you think Nabors can?
SO, if Nabors is at their level, and we have #8 leading our team in which we have heard for example SY mention how he is slow to process even when he does have time. In addition we know his legs won't be "as good" which was a big part of his game. And we know that he IS injury prone. And we sort of accept that the OL AT BEST AT BEST will be "mediocre" - and that is a huge thing-- then where do you think the Giants are going???? To mediocrity at its best, right?
SO if we are going to be mediocre for several years because of Nabor's greatness - then what does "optimism" really mean? To have the same ceiling that Jefferson's Vikes and Hill's Dolph's have?
Some fans complain that the Giants should have tanked at the end – this winning enough games hurts in a way (for the record I never want to see the Giants tank). But if Nabors is going to be so great like Jefferson and Hill and all they appear to be doing is leading their team to slightly above mediocrity, then isn’t it about the same that “winning” will keep them at that same level of mediocrity? Then that wouldn’t be much of a pinch of optimism, would it?
Pretty much all them explosive offensives of the last few years featured at least one guy that was a stud pass catcher. Sometimes two or more.
Who was ours until (maybe) now?
Very possibly the most important BBI quote this offseason
Hill=Nabers
Devon Achane=Dante Miller
+Theo Johnson and Slayton
Obviously not the same level as there is projection with Hyatt and Miller.
But You can't fake speed and we got it now!
1- Dolphins are going nowhere.And teh Gmen can't measure up.
2-- Ill take Waddle all day over Hyatt. IMo they aren;t close. Spped is overrated without results! See Mecole Hardman.
3--I'll take Tua much more over Jones.
4-- And not sure but this upcoming year Miamai's OL-- but Miamai's OL much much much better than Giants.
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I can understand the pinch. Heck even as far back as when DG blundered and took Barkley AND THEN WITH JONES - I HATED BOTH PICKS-- but once expressed - then moved on and said were "How do we make it better?" Thus a pinch of optimism always.
Nabors may very well be the 2nd most exciting Giants player I will see other than Lawrence Taylor. And long term the Giants can do well with him-- BUT - BUT - if Jefferson and Hill can't lead their teams to any playoff success - then why with a worse QB do you think Nabors can?
SO, if Nabors is at their level, and we have #8 leading our team in which we have heard for example SY mention how he is slow to process even when he does have time. In addition we know his legs won't be "as good" which was a big part of his game. And we know that he IS injury prone. And we sort of accept that the OL AT BEST AT BEST will be "mediocre" - and that is a huge thing-- then where do you think the Giants are going???? To mediocrity at its best, right?
SO if we are going to be mediocre for several years because of Nabor's greatness - then what does "optimism" really mean? To have the same ceiling that Jefferson's Vikes and Hill's Dolph's have?
Some fans complain that the Giants should have tanked at the end – this winning enough games hurts in a way (for the record I never want to see the Giants tank). But if Nabors is going to be so great like Jefferson and Hill and all they appear to be doing is leading their team to slightly above mediocrity, then isn’t it about the same that “winning” will keep them at that same level of mediocrity? Then that wouldn’t be much of a pinch of optimism, would it?
Pretty much all them explosive offensives of the last few years featured at least one guy that was a stud pass catcher. Sometimes two or more.
Who was ours until (maybe) now?
As super as they are, they led there teams basically nowhere, so why would the Giants with less than them not be worse? As a result, how much optimism should there be if the all-time great WR;s can only lead their teams with great stats, but not playoff wins threatening a title?
Very possibly the most important BBI quote this offseason
Haven't we heard how new coaches would turn us around? Daboll did though 1 year.We shall see.
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"Carmen Bracillo could be the single biggest acquisition..."
Very possibly the most important BBI quote this offseason
Haven't we heard how new coaches would turn us around? Daboll did though 1 year.We shall see.
Daboll did more with less in 2022 than maybe any Giant coach since Tom Coughlin. And that's not totally accurate because Tom's teams were generally pretty stacked. Yeah last year stunk but he showed something more than Joe 'bad' Judge-ment, BenjaminMcAdon't and Patrick Squirmy Shurmy
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In comment 16494593 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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He should be cut the second after he passes a physical.
Guess not. LOL. If that's the case then no hope for next year either. Unless Drew Lock is the saving grace.
Drake has not played a single down in the NFL, you have no idea how he will perform at this level!
Hey something we can agree on, Jack! I have a feeling Maye is mediocre or worse.
From an OL standpoint, I’m not sure if they are good - but I do feel like guys like Runyan, Eluemunor - as well as the depth like Stinnie, Schlottman - gives them a higher floor, especiallly in pass pro.
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In comment 16495255 bc4life said:
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"Carmen Bracillo could be the single biggest acquisition..."
Very possibly the most important BBI quote this offseason
Haven't we heard how new coaches would turn us around? Daboll did though 1 year.We shall see.
Daboll did more with less in 2022 than maybe any Giant coach since Tom Coughlin. And that's not totally accurate because Tom's teams were generally pretty stacked. Yeah last year stunk but he showed something more than Joe 'bad' Judge-ment, BenjaminMcAdon't and Patrick Squirmy Shurmy
+1
+1
It's possible. We'll find out.