going back to a bunch of big slobberknockers at TE. Part of blocking is supplemental blocking - the TE's, WR's and RB's. And the Giants have been liabilities there for a long time. Years of Engram (and then Waller) as the starting TE.
going back to a bunch of big slobberknockers at TE. Part of blocking is supplemental blocking - the TE's, WR's and RB's. And the Giants have been liabilities there for a long time. Years of Engram (and then Waller) as the starting TE.
It worked for them in 2022, too.
The FA signings were the blockers. This isn't that kind of guy. He's more a receiving threat to replace Waller.
I figured this is Adrien Robinson but worse: he looked so slow and almost club footed on his routes, said to myself, shxt, Schoen is drafting for pure need, awful. Got back just now and read Ourlads writeup (thanks, Sy') and not as bad as I he looked, but it does say this:
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catch radius and sheer weight he can play should help with some of the short area movement issues he shows as a route runner...Checks all ...boxes when he walks off the bus [ha!]...Has some slower,, heavier build up to his speed...should be a more effective blocker at his size.
Just looking at those clips on ESPN after the pick, he didn't look nearly as good as Ourlads' report. ok, now to read the thread and see what you guys said.
going back to a bunch of big slobberknockers at TE. Part of blocking is supplemental blocking - the TE's, WR's and RB's. And the Giants have been liabilities there for a long time. Years of Engram (and then Waller) as the starting TE.
It worked for them in 2022, too.
I call them "lunch pail" TEs; and you cant have too many of them!
Good hands but not sudden or powerful or agile. I know he has a high RAS but it doesn’t show. Gives you nothing after the catch. Not a fan of this pick
...it doesn't show, same here. From Eric's (LIsl) McGinn:
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He’s a really clunky mover, a really unnatural route runner. He’s Canadian, so he’s raw. I thought he might go back to school. If somebody really wants one they might take him in the third but I don’t think he’s worth that.” From Windsor, Ontario.
PFF - Johnson brings plus size to the tight end position, ranking above the 70th percentile in height and weight. His long arms are an advantage when he is blocking edge rushers and hauling in passes. He has decent build-up and long speed when getting vertical up the seam, but he lacks the difference-making change-of-direction ability, which limits his route tree.
Penn stater here. He is not a blocker. He's actually quite poor there. That's why he started losing reps to Warren. Warren actually started becoming the better receiver of two as well. That said he's very athletic and has a ton of potential. Just don't expect him to be a mauler of a blocker. That's not his game
That's disappointing to hear. He's got the size and speed, and looks like good hands; hopefully he develops as a blocker too.
I think that was (is) the common Penn State wisdom, but he I also heard he improved toward the end of the year.
Because it seems like most picks are considered good...until they start to play, as we've seen over and over again.
Deonte Banks - one of the best defensive rookies last year , Kayvon Thibodeaux, all rookie defense and then 11.5 sacks last season, Wan’Dale Robinson, Micah McFadden (5th round), Jalin Hyatt, Belton and Bellinger (both 4th round)……these picks ok for you?
Boss is my baseline expectation. Anything better I'll be happy, anything worse will be disappointing. I'd sign for a 500 yard / 5 td te who can block a bit like Boss.
He isn't close to the quickness or suddeness of Waller, or speed.
Write ups I'm seeing say he's a good but not great blocker, especially for his size.
He's a good pick, but the poster who compared him to Kittle is dreaming.
Penn stater here. He is not a blocker. He's actually quite poor there. That's why he started losing reps to Warren. Warren actually started becoming the better receiver of two as well. That said he's very athletic and has a ton of potential. Just don't expect him to be a mauler of a blocker. That's not his game
That's disappointing to hear. He's got the size and speed, and looks like good hands; hopefully he develops as a blocker too.
I think that was (is) the common Penn State wisdom, but he I also heard he improved toward the end of the year.
Agree with this assessment, Giants are gambling he can be developed. We'll see.
the thing that sticks out to me with Johnson is his catch radius. He also is a vertical threat.
Confused by this because 33-inch arms on a guy who is 6-6 is short. If an OT had 33 inch arms we'd be saying he'd have to move inside because of short arms. For example, Pugh is 6-4 with 32 inch arms. I'm 6-3 and have 35 inch arms.
Can't believe you serious students of this franchise see any parallel to Boss. Boss was long, lean, and way more supple than Johnson seems to be, based on the short clips I saw. Boss was not a big body, not thought of as a massive man/blocker. He ran smoothly, and to Eric Admin.'s point, way more like a WR than Theo.
Kittle? Kittle. What Kittle?
Can't believe you serious students of this franchise see any parallel to Boss. Boss was long, lean, and way more supple than Johnson seems to be, based on the short clips I saw. Boss was not a big body, not thought of as a massive man/blocker. He ran smoothly, and to Eric Admin.'s point, way more like a WR than Theo.
Kittle? Kittle. What Kittle?
Your impression of Boss' overall athleticism is way off. Johnson is actually a better vertical threat. You can see it on the tape. He's not sudden, but very few TEs are.
I'm not sure what you think an average receiving TE in the NFL looks like. We're not going to get Kelce in the 4th round.
He isn't close to the quickness or suddeness of Waller, or speed.
Write ups I'm seeing say he's a good but not great blocker, especially for his size.
He's a good pick, but the poster who compared him to Kittle is dreaming.
I just hope he's not a Derek Brown clone. Derek Brown is a former Giants first round TE pick with virtually identical size and considered a fantastic athlete for his size. Derek Brown's college stats are eerily similar to Theo's stats too.
Can't believe you serious students of this franchise see any parallel to Boss. Boss was long, lean, and way more supple than Johnson seems to be, based on the short clips I saw. Boss was not a big body, not thought of as a massive man/blocker. He ran smoothly, and to Eric Admin.'s point, way more like a WR than Theo.
Kittle? Kittle. What Kittle?
height, weight, arm length almost the same. i see both as very linear in their speed (not shifty or elusive route runners). effort blockers. biggest difference is boss was small school where johnson played high comp.
i heard a bit of draft on radio, jim nagy is on the broadcast with miller and kirwan he said Johnson was their best senior TE entering the season and the pick was a good marriage of value/need.
A guy who tested great athletically and worked with Shea Tierney at the Senior bowl. They're taking a chance, which is literally the entire concept of these day 3 picks. Most of them wash out. If he can become a #2 that would be great, and it's gravy if he can surpass Bellinger.
the thing that sticks out to me with Johnson is his catch radius. He also is a vertical threat.
Confused by this because 33-inch arms on a guy who is 6-6 is short. If an OT had 33 inch arms we'd be saying he'd have to move inside because of short arms. For example, Pugh is 6-4 with 32 inch arms. I'm 6-3 and have 35 inch arms.
Don't know what his arm length is, but he's every inch of that 6'6''... look at the highlights in the red zone. If the ball is near him, he comes down with it against smaller DBs. He's got soft hands.
His issue is going to be route running and blocking. He's green based on all of the reports. He may be a year or two away.
the thing that sticks out to me with Johnson is his catch radius. He also is a vertical threat.
Confused by this because 33-inch arms on a guy who is 6-6 is short. If an OT had 33 inch arms we'd be saying he'd have to move inside because of short arms. For example, Pugh is 6-4 with 32 inch arms. I'm 6-3 and have 35 inch arms.
Shirt arm length is measured from a different location than NFL arm length
A guy who tested great athletically and worked with Shea Tierney at the Senior bowl. They're taking a chance, which is literally the entire concept of these day 3 picks. Most of them wash out. If he can become a #2 that would be great, and it's gravy if he can surpass Bellinger.
him vs bellinger is a very fair prospect debate. probably better than my boss comp though i think play style for johnson is more like boss than bellinger.
i dont think we will ever be impressed with johnson on an end around like bellinger. both were high level athletes for TEs and fringe top 100 prospects picked right around where projected. i would sign for a 2nd bellinger as well.
OG Christian Mahogany BC
DT Christian Jones Texas
DT Mekhi Wingo LSU
QB Michael Pratt Tulane
Edge Javon Solomon Troy
DT Leonard Taylor Ark
C Beaux Limmer TCU
OG Christian Mahogany BC
DT Christian Jones Texas
DT Mekhi Wingo LSU
QB Michael Pratt Tulane
Edge Javon Solomon Troy
DT Leonard Taylor Ark
C Beaux Limmer TCU
I'd add the ND RB to that list unless he's been drafted already.
the thing that sticks out to me with Johnson is his catch radius. He also is a vertical threat.
Confused by this because 33-inch arms on a guy who is 6-6 is short. If an OT had 33 inch arms we'd be saying he'd have to move inside because of short arms. For example, Pugh is 6-4 with 32 inch arms. I'm 6-3 and have 35 inch arms.
Shirt arm length is measured from a different location than NFL arm length
So Pugh wasn't measured by the NFL people at the combine? 33 is not long for a guy who is 6-6.
the thing that sticks out to me with Johnson is his catch radius. He also is a vertical threat.
Sorry for the delay. Was painting outside before it rained while blasting the draft on my phone. He's definitely a threat deep. He's also fantastic in the red zone. Might be the only guy on the roster that can grab a fade.
He has all the tools to be great. He just needs a bit more consistency. Don't get me wrong, most Penn staters loved him. I still do too. It's just that you watch all the things he can do and then he'd drop a routine ball. He works that out and we have a great player
say hello... https://twitter.com/Giants/status/1784283872563273987 - ( New Window )
Seems likable. That other video about growing up with abuse was insightful if tough to hear about in some places. He looks like a good 4th round pick to me. I actually don't really see a close comparison to former Giant TEs, he kind of has his own style. But 4th round - wasn't Bavaro 4th round also?
the thing that sticks out to me with Johnson is his catch radius. He also is a vertical threat.
Confused by this because 33-inch arms on a guy who is 6-6 is short. If an OT had 33 inch arms we'd be saying he'd have to move inside because of short arms. For example, Pugh is 6-4 with 32 inch arms. I'm 6-3 and have 35 inch arms.
Shirt arm length is measured from a different location than NFL arm length
So Pugh wasn't measured by the NFL people at the combine? 33 is not long for a guy who is 6-6.
For a comparison they just invited Quae Drake, a LB, to Minicamp. He is 6-1 with 33 inch arms.
the kid has size to be a good supplemental blocker. I was very down on the pick when I read a report he couldn't block. The tape doesn't seem to show that. I saw some nice blocks from the kid both at the line of scrimage and down field. Also, the skills are obviously there to become a receiving threat as time goes on. Also, the circumstances he was in are unusual. Three other NFL caliber TE prospects also on the rosters he was on and lousy QB play to boot. I like that they met with him and did lots of work on him. To me if the kid really wants it he can become a nice player. I am sure they tried to answer that question in the meetings with him.
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In comment 16495251 Dave in Hoboken said:
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.
And why would you say it isn’t?
Because it seems like most picks are considered good...until they start to play, as we've seen over and over again.
So you automatically assume they will flops
Brilliant analysis
Did I get this right? Just trying to play the game the right way.
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In comment 16495301 Mbavaro said:
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In comment 16495251 Dave in Hoboken said:
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.
And why would you say it isn’t?
Because it seems like most picks are considered good...until they start to play, as we've seen over and over again.
So you automatically assume they will flops
Brilliant analysis
No need to automatically assume when it winds up being the case more times than it doesn't.
It worked for them in 2022, too.
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In comment 16495305 Dave in Hoboken said:
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In comment 16495301 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16495251 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
.
And why would you say it isn’t?
Because it seems like most picks are considered good...until they start to play, as we've seen over and over again.
So you automatically assume they will flops
Brilliant analysis
No need to automatically assume when it winds up being the case more times than it doesn't.
Must to have a glass half empty existence
You must be a hoot a parties
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In comment 16495320 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16495305 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 16495301 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16495251 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
.
And why would you say it isn’t?
Because it seems like most picks are considered good...until they start to play, as we've seen over and over again.
So you automatically assume they will flops
Brilliant analysis
No need to automatically assume when it winds up being the case more times than it doesn't.
Must to have a glass half empty existence
You must be a hoot a parties
Blame the Giants.
It worked for them in 2022, too.
The FA signings were the blockers. This isn't that kind of guy. He's more a receiving threat to replace Waller.
Just looking at those clips on ESPN after the pick, he didn't look nearly as good as Ourlads' report. ok, now to read the thread and see what you guys said.
Think of the way Kevin Boss or Ballard looked.
It worked for them in 2022, too.
I call them "lunch pail" TEs; and you cant have too many of them!
...it doesn't show, same here. From Eric's (LIsl) McGinn:
PFF - Johnson brings plus size to the tight end position, ranking above the 70th percentile in height and weight. His long arms are an advantage when he is blocking edge rushers and hauling in passes. He has decent build-up and long speed when getting vertical up the seam, but he lacks the difference-making change-of-direction ability, which limits his route tree.
A project. Our QBs and TEs are worst in NFL.
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Penn stater here. He is not a blocker. He's actually quite poor there. That's why he started losing reps to Warren. Warren actually started becoming the better receiver of two as well. That said he's very athletic and has a ton of potential. Just don't expect him to be a mauler of a blocker. That's not his game
That's disappointing to hear. He's got the size and speed, and looks like good hands; hopefully he develops as a blocker too.
I think that was (is) the common Penn State wisdom, but he I also heard he improved toward the end of the year.
Quote:
In comment 16495251 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
.
And why would you say it isn’t?
Because it seems like most picks are considered good...until they start to play, as we've seen over and over again.
Deonte Banks - one of the best defensive rookies last year , Kayvon Thibodeaux, all rookie defense and then 11.5 sacks last season, Wan’Dale Robinson, Micah McFadden (5th round), Jalin Hyatt, Belton and Bellinger (both 4th round)……these picks ok for you?
Think of the way Kevin Boss or Ballard looked.
Boss is my baseline expectation. Anything better I'll be happy, anything worse will be disappointing. I'd sign for a 500 yard / 5 td te who can block a bit like Boss.
Who dat? Two weeks late for the resurrection. How do?
He isn't close to the quickness or suddeness of Waller, or speed.
Write ups I'm seeing say he's a good but not great blocker, especially for his size.
He's a good pick, but the poster who compared him to Kittle is dreaming.
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In comment 16495161 Banks said:
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Penn stater here. He is not a blocker. He's actually quite poor there. That's why he started losing reps to Warren. Warren actually started becoming the better receiver of two as well. That said he's very athletic and has a ton of potential. Just don't expect him to be a mauler of a blocker. That's not his game
That's disappointing to hear. He's got the size and speed, and looks like good hands; hopefully he develops as a blocker too.
I think that was (is) the common Penn State wisdom, but he I also heard he improved toward the end of the year.
Agree with this assessment, Giants are gambling he can be developed. We'll see.
Confused by this because 33-inch arms on a guy who is 6-6 is short. If an OT had 33 inch arms we'd be saying he'd have to move inside because of short arms. For example, Pugh is 6-4 with 32 inch arms. I'm 6-3 and have 35 inch arms.
Kittle? Kittle. What Kittle?
Kittle? Kittle. What Kittle?
Your impression of Boss' overall athleticism is way off. Johnson is actually a better vertical threat. You can see it on the tape. He's not sudden, but very few TEs are.
I'm not sure what you think an average receiving TE in the NFL looks like. We're not going to get Kelce in the 4th round.
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He's a Darren Waller clone...
He isn't close to the quickness or suddeness of Waller, or speed.
Write ups I'm seeing say he's a good but not great blocker, especially for his size.
He's a good pick, but the poster who compared him to Kittle is dreaming.
Kittle? Kittle. What Kittle?
height, weight, arm length almost the same. i see both as very linear in their speed (not shifty or elusive route runners). effort blockers. biggest difference is boss was small school where johnson played high comp.
i heard a bit of draft on radio, jim nagy is on the broadcast with miller and kirwan he said Johnson was their best senior TE entering the season and the pick was a good marriage of value/need.
Quote:
the thing that sticks out to me with Johnson is his catch radius. He also is a vertical threat.
Confused by this because 33-inch arms on a guy who is 6-6 is short. If an OT had 33 inch arms we'd be saying he'd have to move inside because of short arms. For example, Pugh is 6-4 with 32 inch arms. I'm 6-3 and have 35 inch arms.
Don't know what his arm length is, but he's every inch of that 6'6''... look at the highlights in the red zone. If the ball is near him, he comes down with it against smaller DBs. He's got soft hands.
His issue is going to be route running and blocking. He's green based on all of the reports. He may be a year or two away.
Quote:
the thing that sticks out to me with Johnson is his catch radius. He also is a vertical threat.
Confused by this because 33-inch arms on a guy who is 6-6 is short. If an OT had 33 inch arms we'd be saying he'd have to move inside because of short arms. For example, Pugh is 6-4 with 32 inch arms. I'm 6-3 and have 35 inch arms.
Shirt arm length is measured from a different location than NFL arm length
him vs bellinger is a very fair prospect debate. probably better than my boss comp though i think play style for johnson is more like boss than bellinger.
i dont think we will ever be impressed with johnson on an end around like bellinger. both were high level athletes for TEs and fringe top 100 prospects picked right around where projected. i would sign for a 2nd bellinger as well.
Good value for the Eagles. I hate them !!!
https://twitter.com/Giants/status/1784283872563273987 - ( New Window )
DT Christian Jones Texas
DT Mekhi Wingo LSU
QB Michael Pratt Tulane
Edge Javon Solomon Troy
DT Leonard Taylor Ark
C Beaux Limmer TCU
DT Christian Jones Texas
DT Mekhi Wingo LSU
QB Michael Pratt Tulane
Edge Javon Solomon Troy
DT Leonard Taylor Ark
C Beaux Limmer TCU
I'd add the ND RB to that list unless he's been drafted already.
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In comment 16495270 Eric from BBI said:
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the thing that sticks out to me with Johnson is his catch radius. He also is a vertical threat.
Confused by this because 33-inch arms on a guy who is 6-6 is short. If an OT had 33 inch arms we'd be saying he'd have to move inside because of short arms. For example, Pugh is 6-4 with 32 inch arms. I'm 6-3 and have 35 inch arms.
Shirt arm length is measured from a different location than NFL arm length
So Pugh wasn't measured by the NFL people at the combine? 33 is not long for a guy who is 6-6.
Sorry for the delay. Was painting outside before it rained while blasting the draft on my phone. He's definitely a threat deep. He's also fantastic in the red zone. Might be the only guy on the roster that can grab a fade.
He has all the tools to be great. He just needs a bit more consistency. Don't get me wrong, most Penn staters loved him. I still do too. It's just that you watch all the things he can do and then he'd drop a routine ball. He works that out and we have a great player
His film is good too, he just wasn’t utilized much at PSU.
This. And I love the upside.
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In comment 16494939 Eric from BBI said:
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Mr. Waller.
& good riddance.
Addition by subtraction.
LOL Why the hate for Waller?
Seems likable. That other video about growing up with abuse was insightful if tough to hear about in some places. He looks like a good 4th round pick to me. I actually don't really see a close comparison to former Giant TEs, he kind of has his own style. But 4th round - wasn't Bavaro 4th round also?
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In comment 16495518 k2tampa said:
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In comment 16495270 Eric from BBI said:
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the thing that sticks out to me with Johnson is his catch radius. He also is a vertical threat.
Confused by this because 33-inch arms on a guy who is 6-6 is short. If an OT had 33 inch arms we'd be saying he'd have to move inside because of short arms. For example, Pugh is 6-4 with 32 inch arms. I'm 6-3 and have 35 inch arms.
Shirt arm length is measured from a different location than NFL arm length
So Pugh wasn't measured by the NFL people at the combine? 33 is not long for a guy who is 6-6.
For a comparison they just invited Quae Drake, a LB, to Minicamp. He is 6-1 with 33 inch arms.