What are your key indicators Giants are trending right way?

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Until jones is gone and we give it a go with someone new.

We have made some good, some bad moves. 500 is an improvement from where we started. But I see the most likely outcome of this process to be a few years in the 7-10 win range before this group ages out. Between the lack of a QB and some moves that prioritize win now, it's hard to see much of a ceiling here.

I think we're tracking to be a team like the Saints, Raiders, or Steelers. Those teams don't suck. They have some legit really good players. They just don't have a ceiling.

In comment 16495423 The_Boss said:

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Until jones is gone and we give it a go with someone new.

True….but until that happens they need to maximize the draft capital they have to improve the roster

For one last season [grin]

I think a fair comp for this current QB era is the mid to late 90s. How did they get out of it? They signed Kerry Collins and he gave the team a solid bridge. Super Bowl appearance and a wildcard appearance. Once they were in position to bring in Eli, they pounced.

I think this is where this is headed. I'm not sure who. I find it the most likely outcome right now.

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now and the talent on the Giants current roster, I don't think the Kerry Collins phase will be duplicated.

I think we will go directly to Kurt Warner/Eli as soon as the Giants can realistically exit the Jones era.

could start scoring at an NFL average rate and not give up historic amounts of sacks I'd take that as a sign. But remains to be seen if the new additions are significant upgrades or same old same old.

In comment 16495470 pjcas18 said:

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now and the talent on the Giants current roster, I don't think the Kerry Collins phase will be duplicated. I think we will go directly to Kurt Warner/Eli as soon as the Giants can realistically exit the Jones era.

That's true. The QB market now doesn't really allow it.

have to mention the NYG great destruction of the LoS (over a decade and ongoing). Defensive side is getting closer but the OL has a lot of work to get to the necessary standard.

WR's look strong. RB's are light. Added a bunch of TE's (We'll see). Young secondary that hopefully develops.

I thought McCarthy was the move but Jones will have to be better as will the players around him and the coaching. Be nice to see them have a strong running game with the RB's to start. HC needs a big year to show he should stay.

In comment 16495452 Sean said:

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I think a fair comp for this current QB era is the mid to late 90s. How did they get out of it? They signed Kerry Collins and he gave the team a solid bridge. Super Bowl appearance and a wildcard appearance. Once they were in position to bring in Eli, they pounced. I think this is where this is headed. I'm not sure who. I find it the most likely outcome right now.

I agree with this. The analogies with 1997 and 1998 are there. And Fassel really should have got the win in the Vikings playoff game in 97. It was a freaky loss. A win makes with a step backward in 98 makes the analogy even stronger.

I’ll give them partial credit for the Eagles game in Week 18.

Cowboys have been embarrassing us for years.

1. New possibly high-level OL coach (#1 and not close)
2. Added elite young Edge in Burns
3. Added most explosive dynamic WR1 in draft. Potential Chase/ OBJ level impact 1st year .
4. Team speed transformation at many skill positions..
5. Pass pro focused additions on OL (Runyan), Eluemenor as an OG.
6. Multiple quality KR/PR options
7. Giants post draft additions (a veteran CB, DT?)

Biggest Unknowns:
1. Bowen as a DC (this is a big one)
2. Ghobriel as an ST

In comment 16495307 GiantGrit said:

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. I care about the product put on the field, last year it was status quo mediocre.

Mediocre? Very generous appraisal. The giants straight up sucked last year!

In comment 16495452 Sean said:

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I think a fair comp for this current QB era is the mid to late 90s. How did they get out of it? They signed Kerry Collins and he gave the team a solid bridge. Super Bowl appearance and a wildcard appearance. Once they were in position to bring in Eli, they pounced. I think this is where this is headed. I'm not sure who. I find it the most likely outcome right now.

I think it's just over 50/50 Jones is the starter in 2025. And I think it's only that low because of his neck.

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I think a fair comp for this current QB era is the mid to late 90s. How did they get out of it? They signed Kerry Collins and he gave the team a solid bridge. Super Bowl appearance and a wildcard appearance. Once they were in position to bring in Eli, they pounced. I think this is where this is headed. I'm not sure who. I find it the most likely outcome right now. I think it's just over 50/50 Jones is the starter in 2025. And I think it's only that low because of his neck.

The odds of them having a shot at three prospects as good as Penix, McCarthy, and Nix next year are low. Like Nabers this year there will probably be players at other positions with higher grades.

If they didn't "force the QB pick" (what a load of BS) this year, why would they next year?

I don’t see much of an improvement this season. I see another 6 win season. I think the draft picks are good. I didn’t see any real reaches. However, we really just replaced some holes from free agency. We lost McKinney. We lost Saquon. We added journeymen level talent to the o-line but no significant draft picks there. No big guard signing.

I see a team with a bottom 5 QB room in the NFL and a mediocre at best o-line. What really makes things difficult is the starting QB has a 47.5 million dollar cap hit. Even teams with very good QBs that are no longer on the rookie contract struggle with cap management. We constantly hear about the necessity to try and win during the rookie contract period.. I don’t see from a logical and historical perspective how a team with a below average QB paid 47.5 million can really compete in today’s NFL.

I am not saying everyone should be fired or any grand dramatic exclamations. Howver, i think expectations for this year should not be high. As a fan base i wonder what the reaction will be with another poor record.

Not spending big on Barkley, sign Singletary and drafting a dominant WR.

Schoen 1st round positions:

DE, OT, CB, WR. Tried to get the QB.

This is how you build a modern NFL team.

What value other franchises place on former Giant players. Both as pricey FAs like McKinney or fringe roster guys that don't have jobs after the Giants cut them. Take a look at the 2019 Giants roster sometime. There's a lot of suck on there.

Wayne Gallman?
Alex Tanney?
Pio?

Moving on from the DG era meant shedding many years of collecting fringe talent. That was reflected in the W-L record. Schoen had his work cut out for him. He needed to come in and revamp a roster of crap with hardly any cap space. The roster needed to be turned off nearly completely. Once we get to the point where our players are valuable to other teams, then we know we're trending the right way.

In comment 16495283 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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Not until we get a real QB.

Come on man, give up the Jones hate, he is a top tier qb and will lead the Giants to 10 wins!

In comment 16495625 Go Terps said:

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The odds of them having a shot at three prospects as good as Penix, McCarthy, and Nix next year are low. Like Nabers this year there will probably be players at other positions with higher grades. If they didn't "force the QB pick" (what a load of BS) this year, why would they next year?

Until Schoen comes up with some way to address the QB position with something other than “we believe in Daniel,” this teams is treading water with the hope to sneak into the playoffs when the schedule is favorable.

In comment 16495300 pjcas18 said:

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not the draft I can tell you that. I read Evan Neal was the RT for the next decade two years ago. Everyone is a potential pro-bowler until they have to play. The best thing IMO the Giants did this off-season is Burns and half the site hates that move because they traded a 2nd round pick to get him (before extending him).

Bingo. Most CERTAINLY not the draft if we've learned anything over the years. Holy crap, I'm tired of watching our draft picks flop in no time so damn often.

they don't have a plan until proven otherwise.

But obviously Schoen did not so I have to defer to the professional. If Schoen thinks we are better off rolling with Jones by building around him then I’m on board. Jones will never be a top 10 QB but you don’t necessarily have to have a top 10 QB to win in this league. Jones may be able to do what needs to be done with the players around him. We had so many holes on this roster and the FO has done everything it can to shore them up this off season. As always, I’m optimistic about the upcoming season.

In comment 16495543 Stars_and_stripes said:

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1. New possibly high-level OL coach (#1 and not close) 2. Added elite young Edge in Burns 3. Added most explosive dynamic WR1 in draft. Potential Chase/ OBJ level impact 1st year . 4. Team speed transformation at many skill positions.. 5. Pass pro focused additions on OL (Runyan), Eluemenor as an OG. 6. Multiple quality KR/PR options 7. Giants post draft additions (a veteran CB, DT?) Biggest Unknowns: 1. Bowen as a DC (this is a big one) 2. Ghobriel as an ST

Those are your biggest unknowns!?
The biggest unknown is when they will finally stop the madness and find a competent QB.

In comment 16495722 Jack Stroud said:

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In comment 16495283 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: Not until we get a real QB. Come on man, give up the Jones hate, he is a top tier qb and will lead the Giants to 10 wins!

If he’s top tier, why only 10?

In comment 16495261 Mike from Ohio said:

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But the most glaring hole in this roster when Schoen and Daboll got here is still a glaring hole. It also happens to be at the most important position on the team. The angry mob will scream about complaining about a QB, but what team in the NFL right now would you say is trending the right way without a QB?

This! I am in complete agreement.

The Giants were willing to trade a lot to move up to 3 to get draft Drake Maye, but were unwilling to sit at 6 and draft one of three QBs that went in the next 6 picks.

That belies an approach to drafting QBs based on myopia and full bloom love. Drake Maye is not several draft picks better a prospect than the other three QBs, two of which were taken by quality QB evaluators.

This is a similar approach to QB that was taken when Eli was drafted; he was not as a prospect several draft picks better than Rivers or Roethlisberger.

I'm as convinced as I've ever been that franchise QB is an ownership call; and their modus operandi is full bloom love.

In comment 16495934 Go Terps said:

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The Giants were willing to trade a lot to move up to 3 to get draft Drake Maye, but were unwilling to sit at 6 and draft one of three QBs that went in the next 6 picks. That belies an approach to drafting QBs based on myopia and full bloom love. Drake Maye is not several draft picks better a prospect than the other three QBs, two of which were taken by quality QB evaluators. This is a similar approach to QB that was taken when Eli was drafted; he was not as a prospect several draft picks better than Rivers or Roethlisberger. I'm as convinced as I've ever been that franchise QB is an ownership call; and their modus operandi is full bloom love.

John is waiting for arch manning

In comment 16495949 The_Boss said:

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John is waiting for arch manning

I'm definitely past the point of thinking this statement is a gag.

In comment 16495934 Go Terps said:

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The Giants were willing to trade a lot to move up to 3 to get draft Drake Maye, but were unwilling to sit at 6 and draft one of three QBs that went in the next 6 picks. That belies an approach to drafting QBs based on myopia and full bloom love. Drake Maye is not several draft picks better a prospect than the other three QBs, two of which were taken by quality QB evaluators. This is a similar approach to QB that was taken when Eli was drafted; he was not as a prospect several draft picks better than Rivers or Roethlisberger. I'm as convinced as I've ever been that franchise QB is an ownership call; and their modus operandi is full bloom love.

Lombardi admitted this. I know Lombardi gets shit here, but he seems to have a very good read on the Giants. It makes sense since he's close with Belichick who's close with the Maras.

Lombardi said that Mara told Schoen & Daboll that he'd support going QB (& trading up) if they loved a QB. They loved Maye. I guess no one else was worthy.

Why can this regime throw resources at TE every year, but it's been 3 years without bringing in any QB in the draft? As a franchise, it's been 5 full drafts without a single QB drafted. You can't win the lottery if you don't play.

Also, Schoen is operating like he has a ton of security. He ain't going anywhere. Another thing you're right about - if Daboll is fired, it'll be another young OC with no HC experience.

There is a lack of continuity on the coaching staff and we still don’t know what we have in the Head Coach. Way too many questions to see an arrow pointing ⬆️.

I thought this organization was trending the right way because I was hoping the hideous Daniel Jones Experience was actually over (despite some signals to the contrary).

Now that Schoen has turned over his cards and he has three Jones face cards showing, I feel worse than I did Thursday night.

In comment 16495990 bw in dc said:

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I thought this organization was trending the right way because I was hoping the hideous Daniel Jones Experience was actually over (despite some signals to the contrary). Now that Schoen has turned over his cards and he has three Jones face cards showing, I feel worse than I did Thursday night.

Same here. A lot of worst fears were confirmed.

In comment 16495813 JFIB said:

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But obviously Schoen did not so I have to defer to the professional. If Schoen thinks we are better off rolling with Jones by building around him then I’m on board. Jones will never be a top 10 QB but you don’t necessarily have to have a top 10 QB to win in this league. Jones may be able to do what needs to be done with the players around him. We had so many holes on this roster and the FO has done everything it can to shore them up this off season. As always, I’m optimistic about the upcoming season.

Same …. I like Jones and still wanted some insurance, that was the prudent path. However JJ or Jones the OL needs to be better especially with a rookie with the middle collapsing or leaking consistently combined with a shaky RT is not going to work out. The front line should be able to apply pressure with KT and Burns of the edge with Dex anchoring the middle. Best man win at yeh S spot, not counting Belton out. If the OL steps up, hit in the FA guards, and the D shows it is solidified we should be able to compete. Even if Jones is over taken by Lock (I doubt that if he is healthy) with the other items happening we’ll be ok. Move up in 2025 or Trade for a vet (known commodity), Will be less picks just more money. DaBoll also could do some QB whispering on Lock and/or Devito …. That was supposedly part of the reason he was hired. Lock was also a top pick and is still young.

In comment 16496001 MotownGIANTS said:

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In comment 16495813 JFIB said: Quote: But obviously Schoen did not so I have to defer to the professional. If Schoen thinks we are better off rolling with Jones by building around him then I’m on board. Jones will never be a top 10 QB but you don’t necessarily have to have a top 10 QB to win in this league. Jones may be able to do what needs to be done with the players around him. We had so many holes on this roster and the FO has done everything it can to shore them up this off season. As always, I’m optimistic about the upcoming season. Same …. I like Jones and still wanted some insurance, that was the prudent path. However JJ or Jones the OL needs to be better especially with a rookie with the middle collapsing or leaking consistently combined with a shaky RT is not going to work out. The front line should be able to apply pressure with KT and Burns of the edge with Dex anchoring the middle. Best man win at yeh S spot, not counting Belton out. If the OL steps up, hit in the FA guards, and the D shows it is solidified we should be able to compete. Even if Jones is over taken by Lock (I doubt that if he is healthy) with the other items happening we’ll be ok. Move up in 2025 or Trade for a vet (known commodity), Will be less picks just more money. DaBoll also could do some QB whispering on Lock and/or Devito …. That was supposedly part of the reason he was hired. Lock was also a top pick and is still young.

Specifically speaking about Belton, I think there's a role for him; Iowa primarily used him as a linebacker/safety hybrid, which could mean that McFadden might be taken off on passing downs and Belton subbed in.

In comment 16495990 bw in dc said:

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I thought this organization was trending the right way because I was hoping the hideous Daniel Jones Experience was actually over (despite some signals to the contrary). Now that Schoen has turned over his cards and he has three Jones face cards showing, I feel worse than I did Thursday night.

We'll always have Friday at around 3pm when we thought the Maye trade was happening.

Has there been a more fortunate NFL player than Daniel Jones ever? Yet, we've got fans here that think he's been given an unfair situation. You can't make it up.

It still is. The rebuild will take time. But not panicking and reaching for McCarthy was a step in the right direction. Their goal should be to build a roster that can compete every year.

In comment 16496021 Sean said:

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In comment 16495990 bw in dc said: Quote: I thought this organization was trending the right way because I was hoping the hideous Daniel Jones Experience was actually over (despite some signals to the contrary). Now that Schoen has turned over his cards and he has three Jones face cards showing, I feel worse than I did Thursday night. We'll always have Friday at around 3pm when we thought the Maye trade was happening. Has there been a more fortunate NFL player than Daniel Jones ever? Yet, we've got fans here that think he's been given an unfair situation. You can't make it up.

They've had 3 years. Jones is their guy.

It's weird we haven't drafted a QB yet this decade and both our record and QB production has been about as bad as we have ever had. This organization doesn't understand the position.

In comment 16496024 jeff57 said:

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It still is. The rebuild will take time. But not panicking and reaching for McCarthy was a step in the right direction. Their goal should be to build a roster that can compete every year.

Terrible and outdated take. Please refer to the Texans and Bengals.

In comment 16496041 Darwinian said:

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In comment 16496024 jeff57 said: Quote: It still is. The rebuild will take time. But not panicking and reaching for McCarthy was a step in the right direction. Their goal should be to build a roster that can compete every year. Terrible and outdated take. Please refer to the Texans and Bengals.

Bengals didn’t happen overnight. The jury is still out on Houston although getting 2 of the top 3 picks in the draft certainly helped

Unless they legitimately believe he will be a HoF player. Until then, we are ok with a guy who is clearly below average. I think they still feel like QB is a position like a coach where you pick a guy, and he is your QB until he isn’t on the team anymore.

I don’t know why they refuse to ever have competition at this position. It feels like we are destined to get an expensive free agent in 2025 while we wait for the chosen one to become available.

In comment 16496021 Sean said:

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Has there been a more fortunate NFL player than Daniel Jones ever? Yet, we've got fans here that think he's been given an unfair situation. You can't make it up.

After we didn't go QB on Thursday, I joked the popping sounds heard on the East River were champagne bottles being opened by Team Jones on DJ's boat "Nine Lives".

Jones right now is the definition that it's better to be lucky than good...

hinges on Belicheck not wanting this job. Otherwise he'll be out the door like his buddy.

and then I'll offer an opinion.

Long time lurker (20+ years, I remember reading BBI for rumors of Plax signing). This draft, more specifically how folks here are reacting to it, has prompted me to finally post. I'm honestly shocked at the response I've seen here.

Don't get me wrong. I was hoping for Maye and ready to move on from Jones, but am very positive after this draft. Schoen has shown me he is very pragmatic and competent. Nobody knew what the Giants would do. They did their homework on the QBs, from reports I'm not sure any other team spent as much time with the collective QB class. They tried to make a move for the one they thought was worth it, but weren't willing to overpay, and when it was their pick they took the blue chip player that was available instead of gambling on a QB they didn't have an equally high grade on (who they spent more time with than any other team). That's what tells me we are going in the right direction.

This roster has had a serious talent deficiency. Giving away lots of future picks or drafting a QB just for the sake of drafting one would be huge mistakes that would only further delay this era of being a joke franchise. They shot their shot for Maye, didn't happen, so you make the level headed decision instead of the emotional one of forcing a QB.

Another indicator for me going back to the season on the coaching side - while it hurt our draft position and maybe cost us the next QB, Daboll really showed me something by winning games (and I'll never regret beating Philly). Early in the season I was becoming very skeptical that maybe he isn't the guy after the bad start, but I think it really speaks to his coaching ability that he kept the locker room competing. In the NFL every year there are teams that have seasons end early and the players check out for the rest of the season. He used 3 different starting QBs to win games when most coaches would just fold. Jury is still out of he can bring us back to bring champions, but I feel that he has shown enough to be trusted to the chance for that. If he can do what he's done these two years with a roster devoid of talent, I like our odds.

We need some stability. We've had a string of lame coaches and had a terrible GM that majorly set us back. Our current pair have a vision, and have shown a willingness to take chances and adapt. That's what you need to compete in he NFL today.

In comment 16495956 Go Terps said:

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In comment 16495949 The_Boss said: Quote: John is waiting for arch manning I'm definitely past the point of thinking this statement is a gag.

The sad part is, this is 100% true. The Maras will walk through fire to make sure Arch is the next Giants qb. Which is actually weirdly fine because he’ll be the next generational qb prospect.