to develop on the both the offensive and defensive lines. We're a couple of years in on the Joe Schoen era when you take away the Dave Gettlemen picks, it looks a little bleak IMHO.
Like I said, we're not there yet, but I think we're going to start to see beat writers and fans starting to talk about this trend if this continues.
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
Give it another 12. We might just get there!
I laughed out loud at this.
Spot on! Shoen passed on 3 franchise QBs that three teams in front of us thought were worth it in the next 6 picks. Yes, that means they are a better team than us for those following along. Shoen has done nothing to earn our trust at this point.
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bluewave I'm with you 100% I think Schoen has done a poor job of drafting thus far, but be prepared for the Kool-Aid drinking warriors because your not allowed to question the new Regime.
I'm far from a Kool-Aid drinker and do feel we're spinning our wheels as long as Jones is on the roster, but I also think it's too early to criticize Schoen's drafting. For example, if you use Evan Neal to support your case that's specious: everyone agreed he was a very promising prospect and sometimes, everyone's just wrong. And yet he could still develop (though I'm not holding my breath).
Evan Neal refused work out privately or on his pro day even though he was healthy, that should be a concern if you plan on using your 6th overall pick. I can fault JS for picking him because it's his job to hit home runs when you have a top 10 pick you have to at least bring in a quality starting player. Maybe Neal can be a quality starter but he needs to be moved to guard, he is not athletic enough to play RT in the NFL. If you are a GM in the NFL you are judged based on your drafting that is how you build your roster.
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but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
I’ll do one better. Who has he drafted that you strongly feel would be signed to a second contract at this point? Yeah, I can’t think of any either.
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have only been wrong for the past 12 years.
Give it another 12. We might just get there!
I laughed out loud at this.
Spot on! Shoen passed on 3 franchise QBs that three teams in front of us thought were worth it in the next 6 picks. Yes, that means they are a better team than us for those following along. Shoen has done nothing to earn our trust at this point.
So you are commiting that the 3 QBs drafted after 6 are franchise QBs without taking a snap?
And you are the person I should let judge a good or bad draft?
Come on that is a horrible take.
Give it another 12. We might just get there!
The end of the Reese era and the Gettleman disaster were widely criticized here. No one was saying we were on track. Quite the opposite.
Quote:
but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
How about we start with Evan Neal?
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Schoen resigned Andrew Thomas, drafted Evan Neal 7th overall in 2022, drafted his center in the second round in 2023 (barely had a career yet), signed some good veteran guards in free agency in 2024 when they actually had some money to do so.
Again, what trends are you speaking of?
I don't care about signing people. I'm talking about his draft choices and I'm starting to criticize him and his scouting staff specifically along the OL and DL.
Name Schoen's draft picks who weren't improvements over the guys they replaced.?
McKethan? Ezeudu, but he's had injury setbacks and was forced to play out of position last year at LT. Davidson was just getting playing time his rookie year when he got hurt and played well when he came back last year. Riley? How can anyone not be happy with him as a 7th round pick?
Give it another 12. We might just get there!
Well said
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In comment 16496770 JerrysKids said:
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but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
I’ll do one better. Who has he drafted that you strongly feel would be signed to a second contract at this point? Yeah, I can’t think of any either.
I am not the one saying he can't draft so tell me who are the busts that prove he can't draft?
Thibs ?
Belton?
Hyatt?
Banks?
Robinson?
Flott?
Bellinger?
McFadden?
Hawkins?
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In comment 16496779 Dave in Hoboken said:
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have only been wrong for the past 12 years.
Give it another 12. We might just get there!
I laughed out loud at this.
Spot on! Shoen passed on 3 franchise QBs that three teams in front of us thought were worth it in the next 6 picks. Yes, that means they are a better team than us for those following along. Shoen has done nothing to earn our trust at this point.
So you are commiting that the 3 QBs drafted after 6 are franchise QBs without taking a snap?
And you are the person I should let judge a good or bad draft?
Come on that is a horrible take.
No. What I’m saying is they are better. Period. What this means? They are better than us at building a football team. A franchise starved for a qb and is to afraid to take a shot so they run it back with the same loser we have had for the last five seasons when smarter teams admit their mistake and move on. You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take and this was a miss. And don’t give me the “well they didn’t think they would be franchise QBs so they passed.” In what world have they earned our trust in a decision like this?
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In comment 16496785 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 16496770 JerrysKids said:
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but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
I’ll do one better. Who has he drafted that you strongly feel would be signed to a second contract at this point? Yeah, I can’t think of any either.
I am not the one saying he can't draft so tell me who are the busts that prove he can't draft?
Thibs ?
Belton?
Hyatt?
Banks?
Robinson?
Flott?
Bellinger?
McFadden?
Hawkins?
All of them are potentially busts I do not see any of them getting a second contract so that is concerning right? Out of that group who can you see as a long term starter? I think Thibs is the only one and the jury is still out on him too.
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In comment 16496770 JerrysKids said:
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but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
How about we start with Evan Neal?
I guarantee that two years ago you were part of the mob here blasting Thomas for his play and calling him a bust- all of that mob look stupid now.
Now, do I think Neal is going to become Thomas? No- I actually think he should flip places with Eluemunor and become an above-average OG.
There are too many on this site who want to grab the torches and pitchforks before the GM can even reshape the roster. The reality is the Gettleman left, they might have had the least impactful roster in the league. They are slowly building into a better team- but it doesn’t happen overnight. I’ve been posting for months that this coming season will be a terrible year regardless of who they signed in FA or drafted. 6 wins might be the upper end of outcomes.
When you have just barely starting level talent at most positions, its takes years to overcome. They have improved the talent level on the OL and DL and DBs. Now, they have a much improved WR room. Is that enough- no, it isn’t.
But this nonsense that you and others are spouting is ridiculous.
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In comment 16496789 crooza172 said:
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In comment 16496785 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 16496770 JerrysKids said:
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but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
I’ll do one better. Who has he drafted that you strongly feel would be signed to a second contract at this point? Yeah, I can’t think of any either.
I am not the one saying he can't draft so tell me who are the busts that prove he can't draft?
Thibs ?
Belton?
Hyatt?
Banks?
Robinson?
Flott?
Bellinger?
McFadden?
Hawkins?
All of them are potentially busts I do not see any of them getting a second contract so that is concerning right? Out of that group who can you see as a long term starter? I think Thibs is the only one and the jury is still out on him too.
Could not agree more. Unless Thib balls out in year three, the chances of him signing a second contract decline dramatically.
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In comment 16496745 ryanmkeane said:
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Schoen resigned Andrew Thomas, drafted Evan Neal 7th overall in 2022, drafted his center in the second round in 2023 (barely had a career yet), signed some good veteran guards in free agency in 2024 when they actually had some money to do so.
Again, what trends are you speaking of?
I don't care about signing people. I'm talking about his draft choices and I'm starting to criticize him and his scouting staff specifically along the OL and DL.
Oh Yay! Another thread by an armchair GM who is infallible and should be signed immediately.
Get over yourself
No, you get over yourself.... Go down the damn roster. His draft choices have sucked!
Quote:
but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
I'm talking specifically about the OL and DL. Outside of Gettlemen's picks, of who I am not defending, have not been good.
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In comment 16496785 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 16496770 JerrysKids said:
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but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
How about we start with Evan Neal?
I guarantee that two years ago you were part of the mob here blasting Thomas for his play and calling him a bust- all of that mob look stupid now.
Now, do I think Neal is going to become Thomas? No- I actually think he should flip places with Eluemunor and become an above-average OG.
There are too many on this site who want to grab the torches and pitchforks before the GM can even reshape the roster. The reality is the Gettleman left, they might have had the least impactful roster in the league. They are slowly building into a better team- but it doesn’t happen overnight. I’ve been posting for months that this coming season will be a terrible year regardless of who they signed in FA or drafted. 6 wins might be the upper end of outcomes.
When you have just barely starting level talent at most positions, its takes years to overcome. They have improved the talent level on the OL and DL and DBs. Now, they have a much improved WR room. Is that enough- no, it isn’t.
But this nonsense that you and others are spouting is ridiculous.
So explain to me the Texans turn around then…..
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In comment 16496789 crooza172 said:
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In comment 16496785 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 16496770 JerrysKids said:
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but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
I’ll do one better. Who has he drafted that you strongly feel would be signed to a second contract at this point? Yeah, I can’t think of any either.
I am not the one saying he can't draft so tell me who are the busts that prove he can't draft?
Thibs ?
Belton?
Hyatt?
Banks?
Robinson?
Flott?
Bellinger?
McFadden?
Hawkins?
All of them are potentially busts I do not see any of them getting a second contract so that is concerning right? Out of that group who can you see as a long term starter? I think Thibs is the only one and the jury is still out on him too.
Now you are just trolling.
I am truly glad that you are nowhere near the Giants FO because you couldn't identify long term talent if it slapped you in the face. You are being contrarian just to try to justify and untenable position
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In comment 16496793 JerrysKids said:
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In comment 16496785 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 16496770 JerrysKids said:
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but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
How about we start with Evan Neal?
I guarantee that two years ago you were part of the mob here blasting Thomas for his play and calling him a bust- all of that mob look stupid now.
Now, do I think Neal is going to become Thomas? No- I actually think he should flip places with Eluemunor and become an above-average OG.
There are too many on this site who want to grab the torches and pitchforks before the GM can even reshape the roster. The reality is the Gettleman left, they might have had the least impactful roster in the league. They are slowly building into a better team- but it doesn’t happen overnight. I’ve been posting for months that this coming season will be a terrible year regardless of who they signed in FA or drafted. 6 wins might be the upper end of outcomes.
When you have just barely starting level talent at most positions, its takes years to overcome. They have improved the talent level on the OL and DL and DBs. Now, they have a much improved WR room. Is that enough- no, it isn’t.
But this nonsense that you and others are spouting is ridiculous.
So explain to me the Texans turn around then…..
Simple- they started with more talent than the Giants. They’ve been picking at the bottom for years and getting premier talent
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In comment 16496753 bluewave said:
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In comment 16496745 ryanmkeane said:
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Schoen resigned Andrew Thomas, drafted Evan Neal 7th overall in 2022, drafted his center in the second round in 2023 (barely had a career yet), signed some good veteran guards in free agency in 2024 when they actually had some money to do so.
Again, what trends are you speaking of?
I don't care about signing people. I'm talking about his draft choices and I'm starting to criticize him and his scouting staff specifically along the OL and DL.
Oh Yay! Another thread by an armchair GM who is infallible and should be signed immediately.
Get over yourself
No, you get over yourself.... Go down the damn roster. His draft choices have sucked!
Another thread with someone defending a team that has the worst record in the NFL over the last decade. This dude needs to get over himself.
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In comment 16496789 crooza172 said:
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In comment 16496785 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 16496770 JerrysKids said:
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but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
I’ll do one better. Who has he drafted that you strongly feel would be signed to a second contract at this point? Yeah, I can’t think of any either.
I am not the one saying he can't draft so tell me who are the busts that prove he can't draft?
Thibs ?
Belton?
Hyatt?
Banks?
Robinson?
Flott?
Bellinger?
McFadden?
Hawkins?
All of them are potentially busts I do not see any of them getting a second contract so that is concerning right? Out of that group who can you see as a long term starter? I think Thibs is the only one and the jury is still out on him too.
Banks is a bust?
Belton was a 4th round pick-bust
McFadden was a 5th round pick and started at MLB and played well
Wendell Robinson is a bust.?
Just go away..... You have no clue.
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In comment 16496808 rich in DC said:
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In comment 16496793 JerrysKids said:
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In comment 16496785 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 16496770 JerrysKids said:
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but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
How about we start with Evan Neal?
I guarantee that two years ago you were part of the mob here blasting Thomas for his play and calling him a bust- all of that mob look stupid now.
Now, do I think Neal is going to become Thomas? No- I actually think he should flip places with Eluemunor and become an above-average OG.
There are too many on this site who want to grab the torches and pitchforks before the GM can even reshape the roster. The reality is the Gettleman left, they might have had the least impactful roster in the league. They are slowly building into a better team- but it doesn’t happen overnight. I’ve been posting for months that this coming season will be a terrible year regardless of who they signed in FA or drafted. 6 wins might be the upper end of outcomes.
When you have just barely starting level talent at most positions, its takes years to overcome. They have improved the talent level on the OL and DL and DBs. Now, they have a much improved WR room. Is that enough- no, it isn’t.
But this nonsense that you and others are spouting is ridiculous.
So explain to me the Texans turn around then…..
Simple- they started with more talent than the Giants. They’ve been picking at the bottom for years and getting premier talent
Wrong. They got a franchise QB. Amazing how much better they look when they aren’t trotting Davis Mills out there.
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In comment 16496800 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 16496789 crooza172 said:
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In comment 16496785 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 16496770 JerrysKids said:
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but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
I’ll do one better. Who has he drafted that you strongly feel would be signed to a second contract at this point? Yeah, I can’t think of any either.
I am not the one saying he can't draft so tell me who are the busts that prove he can't draft?
Thibs ?
Belton?
Hyatt?
Banks?
Robinson?
Flott?
Bellinger?
McFadden?
Hawkins?
All of them are potentially busts I do not see any of them getting a second contract so that is concerning right? Out of that group who can you see as a long term starter? I think Thibs is the only one and the jury is still out on him too.
Banks is a bust?
Belton was a 4th round pick-bust
McFadden was a 5th round pick and started at MLB and played well
Wendell Robinson is a bust.?
Just go away..... You have no clue.
Wandale Robinson has done nothing but tear his ACL and not live up to the production of a second round pick. That’s bust.
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In comment 16496770 JerrysKids said:
Quote:
but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
How about we start with Evan Neal?
Go back and look at the thread from that draft. Thete was virtually no one who wasn't ecstatic they got Neal. And we know he was the consensus 1 or 2 OT in that draft. The Cowboys had him either 1 or 2 overall on their board. I'm sure you were the one guy who was against the pick. The guy has been hurt both years, and played several games while hurt last season because the rest of the O line was out.
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In comment 16496785 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 16496770 JerrysKids said:
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but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
How about we start with Evan Neal?
Go back and look at the thread from that draft. Thete was virtually no one who wasn't ecstatic they got Neal. And we know he was the consensus 1 or 2 OT in that draft. The Cowboys had him either 1 or 2 overall on their board. I'm sure you were the one guy who was against the pick. The guy has been hurt both years, and played several games while hurt last season because the rest of the O line was out.
If you are always hurt, you are a bust. See Saquon Barkley.
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In comment 16496785 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 16496770 JerrysKids said:
Quote:
but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
How about we start with Evan Neal?
I guarantee that two years ago you were part of the mob here blasting Thomas for his play and calling him a bust- all of that mob look stupid now.
Now, do I think Neal is going to become Thomas? No- I actually think he should flip places with Eluemunor and become an above-average OG.
There are too many on this site who want to grab the torches and pitchforks before the GM can even reshape the roster. The reality is the Gettleman left, they might have had the least impactful roster in the league. They are slowly building into a better team- but it doesn’t happen overnight. I’ve been posting for months that this coming season will be a terrible year regardless of who they signed in FA or drafted. 6 wins might be the upper end of outcomes.
When you have just barely starting level talent at most positions, its takes years to overcome. They have improved the talent level on the OL and DL and DBs. Now, they have a much improved WR room. Is that enough- no, it isn’t.
But this nonsense that you and others are spouting is ridiculous.
First off I was not one of the people that turned against Andrew Thomas because at no point was he ever close to being as bad as Evan Neal, as a matter of fact AT was already a very good player in his second year. Second you are making my point for me, the complete dearth of talent on this Roster in 2024 is on Joe schoen not Dave Gettleman, he has completely turned the roster over minus a few holdovers including to all Pro players. In two seasons the players that JS has brought in have NOT PRODUCED, they are not showing any promising attributes, thats a JS problem. In his defense it's very early and I pray he succeeds however it gets late fast around here and this draft has to produce some hope via the players output on the field.
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In comment 16496793 JerrysKids said:
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In comment 16496785 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 16496770 JerrysKids said:
Quote:
but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
How about we start with Evan Neal?
Go back and look at the thread from that draft. Thete was virtually no one who wasn't ecstatic they got Neal. And we know he was the consensus 1 or 2 OT in that draft. The Cowboys had him either 1 or 2 overall on their board. I'm sure you were the one guy who was against the pick. The guy has been hurt both years, and played several games while hurt last season because the rest of the O line was out.
If you are always hurt, you are a bust. See Saquon Barkley.
Stop. Barley did great her in the crappy offense they set up. The guy hasn't been hurt in three years. He could run short yards and break long runs. Forget about the #2 draft choice, if you don't like him you will hate whats next
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In comment 16496813 crooza172 said:
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In comment 16496808 rich in DC said:
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In comment 16496793 JerrysKids said:
Quote:
In comment 16496785 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 16496770 JerrysKids said:
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but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
How about we start with Evan Neal?
I guarantee that two years ago you were part of the mob here blasting Thomas for his play and calling him a bust- all of that mob look stupid now.
Now, do I think Neal is going to become Thomas? No- I actually think he should flip places with Eluemunor and become an above-average OG.
There are too many on this site who want to grab the torches and pitchforks before the GM can even reshape the roster. The reality is the Gettleman left, they might have had the least impactful roster in the league. They are slowly building into a better team- but it doesn’t happen overnight. I’ve been posting for months that this coming season will be a terrible year regardless of who they signed in FA or drafted. 6 wins might be the upper end of outcomes.
When you have just barely starting level talent at most positions, its takes years to overcome. They have improved the talent level on the OL and DL and DBs. Now, they have a much improved WR room. Is that enough- no, it isn’t.
But this nonsense that you and others are spouting is ridiculous.
So explain to me the Texans turn around then…..
Simple- they started with more talent than the Giants. They’ve been picking at the bottom for years and getting premier talent
Wrong. They got a franchise QB. Amazing how much better they look when they aren’t trotting Davis Mills out there.
You aren’t worth arguing with because you have no clue what it takes to build a roster.
The Texans spent years preparing for a star QB. They made strong trades like getting Tunsil, Cashman, Schultz and then made strong draft picks like Stingley, Harris, Scruggs, Nico Collins, Greenard, and signing complementary players like Singletary and others.
But according to know-nothings like yourself, it was all about drafting a QB.
The verdict is far from in on Shoen, but Getleman c'mon.
4 years of drafting in the top 10 and all that is left is
2021 Draft: F-
Azeez Ojulari - meh
Gary Brightwell - meh
2020 Draft: C-
Andrew Thomas - Great player
Darnay Holmes - meh
Carter Coughlin - decent Special teamer
2019 Draft: C-
Daniel Jones - enough said
Dexter Lawrence - great player
Darius Slayton - Good value for where he was picked
2018 Draft: F-
Nobody left
That is truly awful drafting.
As I said, it is still wait and see for Shoen, but it doesn't seem like he has knocked it out the park
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In comment 16496785 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 16496770 JerrysKids said:
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but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
How about we start with Evan Neal?
Go back and look at the thread from that draft. Thete was virtually no one who wasn't ecstatic they got Neal. And we know he was the consensus 1 or 2 OT in that draft. The Cowboys had him either 1 or 2 overall on their board. I'm sure you were the one guy who was against the pick. The guy has been hurt both years, and played several games while hurt last season because the rest of the O line was out.
Yes I was fine with the pick because it looked fine on paper because of all the scouts loved Neal, but the problem is Neal sucks and I am not the GM, Joe Schoen picked him and has made the big mistake of not admitting the facts and address fixing the problem.
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In comment 16496817 rich in DC said:
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In comment 16496813 crooza172 said:
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In comment 16496808 rich in DC said:
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In comment 16496793 JerrysKids said:
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In comment 16496785 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 16496770 JerrysKids said:
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but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
How about we start with Evan Neal?
I guarantee that two years ago you were part of the mob here blasting Thomas for his play and calling him a bust- all of that mob look stupid now.
Now, do I think Neal is going to become Thomas? No- I actually think he should flip places with Eluemunor and become an above-average OG.
There are too many on this site who want to grab the torches and pitchforks before the GM can even reshape the roster. The reality is the Gettleman left, they might have had the least impactful roster in the league. They are slowly building into a better team- but it doesn’t happen overnight. I’ve been posting for months that this coming season will be a terrible year regardless of who they signed in FA or drafted. 6 wins might be the upper end of outcomes.
When you have just barely starting level talent at most positions, its takes years to overcome. They have improved the talent level on the OL and DL and DBs. Now, they have a much improved WR room. Is that enough- no, it isn’t.
But this nonsense that you and others are spouting is ridiculous.
So explain to me the Texans turn around then…..
Simple- they started with more talent than the Giants. They’ve been picking at the bottom for years and getting premier talent
Wrong. They got a franchise QB. Amazing how much better they look when they aren’t trotting Davis Mills out there.
You aren’t worth arguing with because you have no clue what it takes to build a roster.
The Texans spent years preparing for a star QB. They made strong trades like getting Tunsil, Cashman, Schultz and then made strong draft picks like Stingley, Harris, Scruggs, Nico Collins, Greenard, and signing complementary players like Singletary and others.
But according to know-nothings like yourself, it was all about drafting a QB.
You aren’t worth arguing with because you clearly have no clue what it takes to build a football team if you are defending in any way the way this team has been building a roster for the last decade. We are the laughing stock of the league and blind people like you have no idea. If you don’t have the QB, you are nothing. Swap Jones and CJ stroud and let’s see how terrible this roster is vs the Texans. Seems like you are the know-nothing buddy.
Rich in DC would disagree. He Loves Shoen. Maybe he is Shoen on a burner account? About the same intelligence level so that would make sense.
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In comment 16496828 k2tampa said:
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In comment 16496793 JerrysKids said:
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In comment 16496785 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 16496770 JerrysKids said:
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but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
How about we start with Evan Neal?
Go back and look at the thread from that draft. Thete was virtually no one who wasn't ecstatic they got Neal. And we know he was the consensus 1 or 2 OT in that draft. The Cowboys had him either 1 or 2 overall on their board. I'm sure you were the one guy who was against the pick. The guy has been hurt both years, and played several games while hurt last season because the rest of the O line was out.
If you are always hurt, you are a bust. See Saquon Barkley.
Stop. Barley did great her in the crappy offense they set up. The guy hasn't been hurt in three years. He could run short yards and break long runs. Forget about the #2 draft choice, if you don't like him you will hate whats next
I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or you are actually serious.
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In comment 16496820 crooza172 said:
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In comment 16496817 rich in DC said:
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In comment 16496813 crooza172 said:
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In comment 16496808 rich in DC said:
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In comment 16496793 JerrysKids said:
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In comment 16496785 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 16496770 JerrysKids said:
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but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
How about we start with Evan Neal?
I guarantee that two years ago you were part of the mob here blasting Thomas for his play and calling him a bust- all of that mob look stupid now.
Now, do I think Neal is going to become Thomas? No- I actually think he should flip places with Eluemunor and become an above-average OG.
There are too many on this site who want to grab the torches and pitchforks before the GM can even reshape the roster. The reality is the Gettleman left, they might have had the least impactful roster in the league. They are slowly building into a better team- but it doesn’t happen overnight. I’ve been posting for months that this coming season will be a terrible year regardless of who they signed in FA or drafted. 6 wins might be the upper end of outcomes.
When you have just barely starting level talent at most positions, its takes years to overcome. They have improved the talent level on the OL and DL and DBs. Now, they have a much improved WR room. Is that enough- no, it isn’t.
But this nonsense that you and others are spouting is ridiculous.
So explain to me the Texans turn around then…..
Simple- they started with more talent than the Giants. They’ve been picking at the bottom for years and getting premier talent
Wrong. They got a franchise QB. Amazing how much better they look when they aren’t trotting Davis Mills out there.
You aren’t worth arguing with because you have no clue what it takes to build a roster.
The Texans spent years preparing for a star QB. They made strong trades like getting Tunsil, Cashman, Schultz and then made strong draft picks like Stingley, Harris, Scruggs, Nico Collins, Greenard, and signing complementary players like Singletary and others.
But according to know-nothings like yourself, it was all about drafting a QB.
You aren’t worth arguing with because you clearly have no clue what it takes to build a football team if you are defending in any way the way this team has been building a roster for the last decade. We are the laughing stock of the league and blind people like you have no idea. If you don’t have the QB, you are nothing. Swap Jones and CJ stroud and let’s see how terrible this roster is vs the Texans. Seems like you are the know-nothing buddy.
Ah yes, the old gaslighting maneuver. You can’t handle actual facts so you double down on a fact-free argument and try and claim victory.
Get lost clown
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Like Schoen hitching his wagon to a QB that struggled before getting hurt with a career threatening injury and having a rookie UDFA look more competent with the same people.
Rich in DC would disagree. He Loves Shoen. Maybe he is Shoen on a burner account? About the same intelligence level so that would make sense.
Gaslighting again? You really are butthurt about getting caught not knowing that the Texans built a roster before drafting their QB and discovered your baseless claim that just drafting a QB is the answer to everything.
You really are a loser.
You aren’t worth arguing with because you have no clue what it takes to build a roster.
The Texans spent years preparing for a star QB. They made strong trades like getting Tunsil, Cashman, Schultz and then made strong draft picks like Stingley, Harris, Scruggs, Nico Collins, Greenard, and signing complementary players like Singletary and others.
But according to know-nothings like yourself, it was all about drafting a QB.
I'm not sure the example of the Texans would ever apply to the Giants though.
First they traded their very promising starting QB to acquire a lot of draft capital. The team building they executed couldn't have happened without it. Would the Giants do that?
Then they drafted a QB only two years after they'd already drafted a QB who started. I'm not sure the Giants would do that.
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In comment 16496786 crooza172 said:
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In comment 16496779 Dave in Hoboken said:
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have only been wrong for the past 12 years.
Give it another 12. We might just get there!
I laughed out loud at this.
Spot on! Shoen passed on 3 franchise QBs that three teams in front of us thought were worth it in the next 6 picks. Yes, that means they are a better team than us for those following along. Shoen has done nothing to earn our trust at this point.
So you are commiting that the 3 QBs drafted after 6 are franchise QBs without taking a snap?
And you are the person I should let judge a good or bad draft?
Come on that is a horrible take.
No. What I’m saying is they are better. Period. What this means? They are better than us at building a football team. A franchise starved for a qb and is to afraid to take a shot so they run it back with the same loser we have had for the last five seasons when smarter teams admit their mistake and move on. You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take and this was a miss. And don’t give me the “well they didn’t think they would be franchise QBs so they passed.” In what world have they earned our trust in a decision like this?
I'm willing to give you the Vikings (who we beat the last time either team made the playoffs), but in what world have the Falcons or Broncos been better at building football teams? Falcons drafted a QB who will be 26 before they can move on from Cousins, or 28 if Cousins plays his whole deal.
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have only been wrong for the past 12 years.
Give it another 12. We might just get there!
I laughed out loud at this.
Spot on! Shoen passed on 3 franchise QBs that three teams in front of us thought were worth it in the next 6 picks. Yes, that means they are a better team than us for those following along. Shoen has done nothing to earn our trust at this point.
You're using as an argument against Joe Schoen's drafting, the fact that Denver used a first round pick on Bo Nix?
That's a good one!
You should be a GM. Just not for the Giants.
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In comment 16496770 JerrysKids said:
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but so far early returns on JS drafts are on the same exact trajectory that Gettleman was on. It's early for JS still and has time to get the ship pointed in the right direction but we have to admit so far it's not been good. Right?
So he has drafted 18 players outside of this draft
Tell me the ones that you are calling out right bust or have not shown the ability to contribute to this team or have not flashed?
I’ll do one better. Who has he drafted that you strongly feel would be signed to a second contract at this point? Yeah, I can’t think of any either.
This is a fun game because his draft classes are two years in.
If you followed this same logic, you also would have said the same.exact thing for Dexter Lawrence and Andrew Thomas.
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In comment 16496763 JerrysKids said:
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bluewave I'm with you 100% I think Schoen has done a poor job of drafting thus far, but be prepared for the Kool-Aid drinking warriors because your not allowed to question the new Regime.
I'm far from a Kool-Aid drinker and do feel we're spinning our wheels as long as Jones is on the roster, but I also think it's too early to criticize Schoen's drafting. For example, if you use Evan Neal to support your case that's specious: everyone agreed he was a very promising prospect and sometimes, everyone's just wrong. And yet he could still develop (though I'm not holding my breath).
Evan Neal refused work out privately or on his pro day even though he was healthy, that should be a concern if you plan on using your 6th overall pick. I can fault JS for picking him because it's his job to hit home runs when you have a top 10 pick you have to at least bring in a quality starting player. Maybe Neal can be a quality starter but he needs to be moved to guard, he is not athletic enough to play RT in the NFL. If you are a GM in the NFL you are judged based on your drafting that is how you build your roster.
I think the refusing to work out thing is overblown, prospects are advised not to do that because they feel their draft stock can only drop not rise. It is disappointing, but I get it - evaluate me by my tape.
And how about a little perspective. Schoen/Daboll inherited a team that was 22-59 - the worst record in the NFL - the previous 5 years. In their 2 seasons they've been 16-19-1 with a playoff appearance. In fact, go back to the end of the so-called 1970s the Giants were 26-46-1 in George Young's first 5 seasons with the team and were 3-12-1 in his 5th season here.
Unfortunately these things take time. I think in Schoen and Daboll we have a couple of good young smart football people, and with a little bit of luck along the way we'll get there.
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In comment 16496779 Dave in Hoboken said:
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have only been wrong for the past 12 years.
Give it another 12. We might just get there!
I laughed out loud at this.
Spot on! Shoen passed on 3 franchise QBs that three teams in front of us thought were worth it in the next 6 picks. Yes, that means they are a better team than us for those following along. Shoen has done nothing to earn our trust at this point.
You're using as an argument against Joe Schoen's drafting, the fact that Denver used a first round pick on Bo Nix?
That's a good one!
You should be a GM. Just not for the Giants.
My argument is they all finish with better records than us consistently. This team is a dumpster fire until proven otherwise.
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In comment 16496850 Mike in NY said:
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Like Schoen hitching his wagon to a QB that struggled before getting hurt with a career threatening injury and having a rookie UDFA look more competent with the same people.
Rich in DC would disagree. He Loves Shoen. Maybe he is Shoen on a burner account? About the same intelligence level so that would make sense.
Gaslighting again? You really are butthurt about getting caught not knowing that the Texans built a roster before drafting their QB and discovered your baseless claim that just drafting a QB is the answer to everything.
You really are a loser.
LOL. Ok bro. You attacked me first for my opinion which you are clearly in denial is correct. No one in their right mind thought the Texans had a good roster until Stroud showed up. This team is the worst team in the NFL over the past decade. The QB is the most important in sports and even if I was GM of this football team, my results couldn’t be much worse than they have been. You really are an idiot.
That’s a solid core. We still need one more impact CB. I think Nubin is a potential impact Safety. On D I am optimistic.
We’ve gone nowhere on O in 2 years, though. We’ll see how Nabers/Robinson/Hyatt (and Slayton) plus the revamped OL do in 2024. I think we’re about where we were at RB, even if a little dropoff. QB is the big problem and still bottom tier. Overall, a lot of question marks and TBD on O. But a lot of new players coming in this offseason so this is a big year as far as evaluating Schoen.
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In comment 16496767 santacruzom said:
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In comment 16496763 JerrysKids said:
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bluewave I'm with you 100% I think Schoen has done a poor job of drafting thus far, but be prepared for the Kool-Aid drinking warriors because your not allowed to question the new Regime.
I'm far from a Kool-Aid drinker and do feel we're spinning our wheels as long as Jones is on the roster, but I also think it's too early to criticize Schoen's drafting. For example, if you use Evan Neal to support your case that's specious: everyone agreed he was a very promising prospect and sometimes, everyone's just wrong. And yet he could still develop (though I'm not holding my breath).
Evan Neal refused work out privately or on his pro day even though he was healthy, that should be a concern if you plan on using your 6th overall pick. I can fault JS for picking him because it's his job to hit home runs when you have a top 10 pick you have to at least bring in a quality starting player. Maybe Neal can be a quality starter but he needs to be moved to guard, he is not athletic enough to play RT in the NFL. If you are a GM in the NFL you are judged based on your drafting that is how you build your roster.
I think the refusing to work out thing is overblown, prospects are advised not to do that because they feel their draft stock can only drop not rise. It is disappointing, but I get it - evaluate me by my tape.
The whole appeal of Evan Neal was not his tape, he had struggles at Bama, he was a solid college player but it was his size and supposed athleticism that was the major draw he refused to allow anyone to see him in action and if they couldn't have that opportunity you have to pass at the 6th spot. No doubt that is a big mistake I hope Schoen learns from.
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In comment 16496788 JerrysKids said:
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In comment 16496767 santacruzom said:
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In comment 16496763 JerrysKids said:
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bluewave I'm with you 100% I think Schoen has done a poor job of drafting thus far, but be prepared for the Kool-Aid drinking warriors because your not allowed to question the new Regime.
I'm far from a Kool-Aid drinker and do feel we're spinning our wheels as long as Jones is on the roster, but I also think it's too early to criticize Schoen's drafting. For example, if you use Evan Neal to support your case that's specious: everyone agreed he was a very promising prospect and sometimes, everyone's just wrong. And yet he could still develop (though I'm not holding my breath).
Evan Neal refused work out privately or on his pro day even though he was healthy, that should be a concern if you plan on using your 6th overall pick. I can fault JS for picking him because it's his job to hit home runs when you have a top 10 pick you have to at least bring in a quality starting player. Maybe Neal can be a quality starter but he needs to be moved to guard, he is not athletic enough to play RT in the NFL. If you are a GM in the NFL you are judged based on your drafting that is how you build your roster.
I think the refusing to work out thing is overblown, prospects are advised not to do that because they feel their draft stock can only drop not rise. It is disappointing, but I get it - evaluate me by my tape.
The whole appeal of Evan Neal was not his tape,
This is false info. Nothing to see here.
The Neal to OG should have already happened this off-season