DJ is not Patrick Mahomes, neither was Phil Simms, Jeff Hosteler or Eli Manning. Each of the former had their own strengths and contributed each of our SB wins. DJ has incredible athleticism, unflappable demeanor, and has shown nothing but professionalism throughout his career. His 2022 season was topped off with a road playoff victory that Giants fan all seem to diminish when the subject is brought up. In 2022 DJ stats were as follows:
Over 3,000 yds, 3-1 TD to INT ratio, over 90 QBR. He has a modest career QBR rating of 85.2 with possibly the worst Giants Oline in our storied history. Not just a bad Oline, we are talking all time worst Oline!! DJ has all of the tools to win and be a key part of the turnaround. I look forward to the future with great optimism. Our misfortunes aren’t because of DJ, they are due to poor drafting and mismanagement from the top down that ultimately ruined the end of Eli’s (potential HOF’er)career and have made DJ a punching bag throughout his career.
Mostly showing professionalism
And please don’t tell me he had a horrible supporting cast because so did Cutlets and Taylor, and both of them looked much better.
But I will give you this- he didn’t have Andrew Thomas, LT, for all his games save one, and I know how important he is, so that obviously meant something ….so I can cut him some slack for that. I believe Thomas came back as soon as DJ got injured so maybe that is why Cutlets and Taylor looked better.
For the record I was all in on DJ until I saw his 6 games in 2023….I guess you could say I lost my faith. If he is our starter I hope I can get it back…but that will be up to him.
He by no means was very, very good. Stop with the bullshit.
And please don’t tell me he had a horrible supporting cast because so did Cutlets and Taylor, and both of them looked much better.
But I will give you this- he didn’t have Andrew Thomas, LT, for all his games save one, and I know how important he is, so that obviously meant something ….so I can cut him some slack for that. I believe Thomas came back as soon as DJ got injured so maybe that is why Cutlets and Taylor looked better.
For the record I was all in on DJ until I saw his 6 games in 2023….I guess you could say I lost my faith. If he is our starter I hope I can get it back…but that will be up to him.
Cutlets and Tyrod had Andrew Thomas and Pugh on the OL.
DJ had ezeudu playing LT
Simms - was benched injured and did not come into his own until year 6
Hoffsetter - was our back up QB
Collins - was picked up off the trash heap after having problems
Eli - two less than perfect teams got on a roll
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I know he only played 6 games, but for the most part, save the 2nd half of the Cards game, he didn’t do much at all and looked like a deer in headlights.
And please don’t tell me he had a horrible supporting cast because so did Cutlets and Taylor, and both of them looked much better.
But I will give you this- he didn’t have Andrew Thomas, LT, for all his games save one, and I know how important he is, so that obviously meant something ….so I can cut him some slack for that. I believe Thomas came back as soon as DJ got injured so maybe that is why Cutlets and Taylor looked better.
For the record I was all in on DJ until I saw his 6 games in 2023….I guess you could say I lost my faith. If he is our starter I hope I can get it back…but that will be up to him.
Cutlets and Tyrod had Andrew Thomas and Pugh on the OL.
DJ had ezeudu playing LT
You saw that I did mention that….Ezudu was horrible at it and like I said, I’m sure this affected Jones somewhat. Not sure all the blame could be put on Ezudu or whoever was our LT for his poor performances.
Do you cut Jones full slack for this?
He threw 15 TDs in ‘22. That’s less than one per game.
I have to laugh at this one…..there are 1000 threads started here blasting Jones….and not once have you questioned what is the purpose of all these 1000 threads. And now one thread comes up supporting him and you ask what is the purpose of this thread? Too funny…thanks for the laugh.
DJ fired the ball all over the field in his rookie year. He threw a beautiful deep ball, put up stars, but he was prone to turnovers, especially fumbles. His supporting cast kept getting worse, but he improved the TOs and adjusted his playstyle to the guys he had. He carried us in 2022, and 2023 wasn't all on him. We were God awful early in the season, and all the blame is thrown on his shoulders. He had some bad INTs, but he was forcing shit when we were down big on most of those. He also clearly got hurt early in the year and wasn't able to throw comfortably.
If DJ can provide 25+ total TDs, 4000+ total yards with continued accurate passing, and lead us to a winning record athe same voices will be calling for his head. Fuck those voices.
I'm slightly concerned about injuries, but otherwise I think this will be our best offensive year in a long time. Let's go!!
Love Eli....super clutch with 2 amazing runs but never a top 5 QB.
Giants always won with defense first.
DJ needs a little extra time....so a lousy OL is not a good combo.....
Probably the best set of WRs and TEs....DJ has ever had....
If OL gets fixed....DJ won't have any more excuses.
Last year, the OL got worse....no QB does well on his back. (See Brady in our 1st Super Bowl)
Everyone jumps on DJ when a very limited Cutlet did well....but OL played better against weaker teams
I think the Giants did a good job in this draft, I’m not mad at all they passed up on JJM, Penix, and Nix at 6. But I’m a realist and know it’s only a matter of time before they replace Jones, most likely with a high pick in 2025.
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DJ was very, very good in 2022. No reason to think with more protection and weapons he’ll be that again at minimum. Likely more.
He by no means was very, very good. Stop with the bullshit.
You need your eyes checked
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What was the point of this OP?
I have to laugh at this one…..there are 1000 threads started here blasting Jones….and not once have you questioned what is the purpose of all these 1000 threads. And now one thread comes up supporting him and you ask what is the purpose of this thread? Too funny…thanks for the laugh.
What is the point of your post?
Questions for the “I can’t support Jones” fan club….
1. So, do you think Schoen, Daboll, and Kafka know all this?
2. If so, when did they learn this? Was it before or after the big contract he got?
3. If before, then Why did he get the rich contract?
4. If after, why did it take so long for these 3 very smart guys to finally get what many here already knew?
5. Are you saying we here on BBI know more than the 3 named guys mentioned above?
Let’s start with these and then see where we go..
How many fans laughed at Eli? This is a really odd point you’re trying to make. Since when do we care what fans of other teams think!?
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Fan bases of other teams laugh-LAUGH-at Jones’ play and contract.
How many times did we laugh at QBs on other teams?
How many fans laughed at Eli? This is a really odd point you’re trying to make. Since when do we care what fans of other teams think!?
SF is still super pissed about them passing on JJM, Penix, or Nix at 6 like several other posters. He’s right that Jones is not good, but if the Giants didn’t like the three QB’s they had a chance to get than we move on and take a QB next year.
Mara can lie to us, but he can't lie to the players.
He was not very very good in 2022. Just much better than he has been.
Love Eli....super clutch with 2 amazing runs but never a top 5 QB.
Giants always won with defense first.
DJ needs a little extra time....so a lousy OL is not a good combo.....
Probably the best set of WRs and TEs....DJ has ever had....
If OL gets fixed....DJ won't have any more excuses.
Last year, the OL got worse....no QB does well on his back. (See Brady in our 1st Super Bowl)
Everyone jumps on DJ when a very limited Cutlet did well....but OL played better against weaker teams
Hate to disagree with a fellow PA resident, but Eli in his prime was an elite QB. We don't make the 2011 playoffs without Eli putting the team on his shoulders all year, lead the team to a come-from-behind victory in Dallas, 2 TDs late in the 4th Q, to even squeeze into the playoffs.
"The Giants also became the first team ever with fewer than ten wins in a 16-game regular season to win the Super Bowl. Manning also became the first quarterback in NFL history to throw for 4,900+ yards and win a Super Bowl in the same season. The Giants were the first team with a running game ranked last (32nd) and a defense ranked as low as 27th to win a Super Bowl."
How many QBs won 2 SBs, SB MVP twice leading the team to the winning TD in the last minute. The Manningham throw ranks as one of the best clutch throws in history. Call me when DJ does even a miniscule fraction of what Eli has done.
Not having Thomas as your LT and being replaced by a guy who has business playing LT, Ezudu, is not a good excuse.???
Come on man, you are smarter than this…don’t make blanket statements…they usually don’t apply.
I’m pissed about it as well. But there really weren’t any options to solve it this year. No one up top wanted to trade down. The real mistake was not this draft, but the decision to re-sign Jones instead of franchising him last year. That set the table for this situation. It’s Schoen’s worst move as GM so far, with the Waller trade a distant second.
Eli meanwhile had a 1000+ WR or two almost every year of his career.
Eli had Diehl, Seubert , OHara, Snee, McKensie
Aside from Thomas, pretty much garbage for DJ.
I can't wait to see this Nabers kid.
Eli meanwhile had a 1000+ WR or two almost every year of his career.
Eli had Diehl, Seubert , OHara, Snee, McKensie
Aside from Thomas, pretty much garbage for DJ.
I can't wait to see this Nabers kid.
What a comparison from our former Oline to last years!
Justin Pugh wasn’t on the team when Jones played this past season.
And I love how ‘no scholarships’ talk doesn’t apply to Jones.
Eli meanwhile had a 1000+ WR or two almost every year of his career.
Eli had Diehl, Seubert , OHara, Snee, McKensie
Aside from Thomas, pretty much garbage for DJ.
I can't wait to see this Nabers kid.
Eli used to throw the ball downfield before he hit his decline. That helps WRs get 1000+ yards.
Jones is going frustrate this Nabers kid.
https://youtu.be/GnnEyKtomSU?si=CP_RoYxoBZGXSKSm
And please don’t tell me he had a horrible supporting cast because so did Cutlets and Taylor, and both of them looked much better.
But I will give you this- he didn’t have Andrew Thomas, LT, for all his games save one, and I know how important he is, so that obviously meant something ….so I can cut him some slack for that. I believe Thomas came back as soon as DJ got injured so maybe that is why Cutlets and Taylor looked better.
For the record I was all in on DJ until I saw his 6 games in 2023….I guess you could say I lost my faith. If he is our starter I hope I can get it back…but that will be up to him.
Neither Tyrod Taylor, nor Tommy Cutlets had been beaten to a pulp for several Sundays when they took over the offense. I'd like to see you get hit by 300 lb guys 20 or 30 times in a three hour span, and see how you feel. Put on all the padding you want. Do that every week for a couple of years. Now hit the guy about to break free across the middle 20 yards downfield with a 6'5" 300 lb guy in your face.
Many people on this site put a lot of fault on Jones. Many people on this site never want to see him take a snap again. But if a very few on this site make ‘excuses’ for Jones, or show some optimism, you become sick of it. Can anyone have a different opinion?
Justin Pugh wasn’t on the team when Jones played this past season.
Ok, then he had ezeudu and i dont even know who protecting his blindside. Doesnt change a thing. If it wasn’t andrew thomas, then it was terrible.
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What I’m more largely pissed at is being force fed to watch more shitty QB from this team. I’m sick of it. And I’m sick of the fucking excuses this dude gets time and again. Nothing is ever his fault.
Many people on this site put a lot of fault on Jones. Many people on this site never want to see him take a snap again. But if a very few on this site make ‘excuses’ for Jones, or show some optimism, you become sick of it. Can anyone have a different opinion?
With all due respect, WTF are you talking about? Of course people can different opinions.
Granted, the OL has been brutally bad for the past decade, and they haven't had a worthy, game changing WR since OBJ was traded.
The fact of the matter is that Joe Schoen could construct a wall around Jones to protect him, yet Jones has lousy accuracy. Malik Nabers will probably be showing his frustration at some part of the upcoming season because Jones is a lousy QB. Jones has relied on his ability to panic run, yet after the ACL injury he'll be a marked man for the opposition. Will they attack his knees? You know they will, especially Philly.
I just hope that Drew Lock stays healthy, because I think he'll play in more games than Jones.
If I sound cynical, it's from the years of apathy I endured watching this team try to rally behind a subpar, backup QB who's been masquerading as an elite QB.
I am not 100% behind Daniel Jones.
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In comment 16497930 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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What I’m more largely pissed at is being force fed to watch more shitty QB from this team. I’m sick of it. And I’m sick of the fucking excuses this dude gets time and again. Nothing is ever his fault.
Many people on this site put a lot of fault on Jones. Many people on this site never want to see him take a snap again. But if a very few on this site make ‘excuses’ for Jones, or show some optimism, you become sick of it. Can anyone have a different opinion?
With all due respect, WTF are you talking about? Of course people can different opinions.
You do a lot of complaining. This time you’re ‘sick of the fucking excuses’, which could easily be translated as you’re sick of hearing the opinion that a number of external factors could have contributed to Jones’ poor performance.
we just better hope that Drew lock can come through and perform a better job than what Daniel Jones has done over the six years. That would be the time when the Giants really move forward. Let’s hope Daniel Jones does not see the field this coming year. Remember, if he gets hurt and does not pass the physical next year, that injury clause is going to kick in and kill the Giants.
No excuses. Unless he falls short, then we can blame his ACL and let him try again in 2025 ;)
The Front Office wouldn’t have spend their time checking out all the QBs if they thought Jones was a long term answer, nor would they have offered up a big time trade.
I will cheer for the guy or whoever is the starting QB, rooting for losing is just not fun.
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In comment 16497809 Sammo85 said:
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What was the point of this OP?
I have to laugh at this one…..there are 1000 threads started here blasting Jones….and not once have you questioned what is the purpose of all these 1000 threads. And now one thread comes up supporting him and you ask what is the purpose of this thread? Too funny…thanks for the laugh.
What is the point of your post?
'Very, Very Good...are you nuts? What, 12-15 TDs is now 'very very good?'My goodness, how the bar has been lowered.
Now we have to hear how he had a great 22 season. If I ran ESPN, I would green light a 30 for 30 for the Jones cult. It honestly fascinates me in a weird way.
Dude, I mean this sincerely. Take a breath and walk away. This shouldn't trigger you this bad.
We don't need him to be Mahommes, Eli, or Simms. We just need him to be a competent NFL QB - he's capable of that.
If I’m reading this correctly, either Jones is successful here OR it was a failure by the organization to adequately build a team around him?
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I’m not saying he is a first year HOF’er. This Giants team in general has many holes. Continuously shitting on him while also understanding we have many issues just seems unreasonable. I hope the DJ era ends well but if it doesn’t I understand that he wasn’t set up for success. Shit look at Brock Purdy. He think he would be doing what he is doing with our team?
If I’m reading this correctly, either Jones is successful here OR it was a failure by the organization to adequately build a team around him?
You realize this is a team sport correct?
You guys focus so much on the negatives, so passionately about it. This is going to create mental problems for you guys. I'm serious. There are many scientific studies about people non-stop complaining and the outcome is serious depression and mental problems.
Given that DJ will be the QB next season and there is no way you can change that, I think you and a few other folks should stay out of football for at least 1 year. Nothing is bigger than the health. And you are not doing any favor for your own health.
So rather than asking the OP to stop, you better stop.
In comment 16498065 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I’m not saying he is a first year HOF’er. This Giants team in general has many holes. Continuously shitting on him while also understanding we have many issues just seems unreasonable. I hope the DJ era ends well but if it doesn’t I understand that he wasn’t set up for success. Shit look at Brock Purdy. He think he would be doing what he is doing with our team?
If I’m reading this correctly, either Jones is successful here OR it was a failure by the organization to adequately build a team around him?
This is correct. 2022 was all about Daniel Jones carrying the team on his back to the playoffs. Every other year was the team failing Daniel Jones, despite almost heroic efforts on his behalf.
When you hold that view, you can never be proven wrong because everything you can possibly see is supported by your bias. Success belongs to Daniel, failure belongs to everyone else.
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In comment 16498066 RELICDOA said:
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I’m not saying he is a first year HOF’er. This Giants team in general has many holes. Continuously shitting on him while also understanding we have many issues just seems unreasonable. I hope the DJ era ends well but if it doesn’t I understand that he wasn’t set up for success. Shit look at Brock Purdy. He think he would be doing what he is doing with our team?
If I’m reading this correctly, either Jones is successful here OR it was a failure by the organization to adequately build a team around him?
You realize this is a team sport correct?
I think their brains are wired that it's easier to accept that it's one guy holding people back than the larger mess we have had the past 10 years or so.
Anyone that says he has had one weapon in the passing game or anything resembling pass protection is full of shit. He is not a Mahomes or Allen guy. But I'm sure he could be in the Hurts, Purdy, Prescott, Cousins category with an actual real offense around him.
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In comment 16498066 RELICDOA said:
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I’m not saying he is a first year HOF’er. This Giants team in general has many holes. Continuously shitting on him while also understanding we have many issues just seems unreasonable. I hope the DJ era ends well but if it doesn’t I understand that he wasn’t set up for success. Shit look at Brock Purdy. He think he would be doing what he is doing with our team?
If I’m reading this correctly, either Jones is successful here OR it was a failure by the organization to adequately build a team around him?
You realize this is a team sport correct?
I think their brains are wired that it's easier to accept that it's one guy holding people back than the larger mess we have had the past 10 years or so.
Anyone that says he has had one weapon in the passing game or anything resembling pass protection is full of shit. He is not a Mahomes or Allen guy. But I'm sure he could be in the Hurts, Purdy, Prescott, Cousins category with an actual real offense around him.
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In comment 16498066 RELICDOA said:
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I’m not saying he is a first year HOF’er. This Giants team in general has many holes. Continuously shitting on him while also understanding we have many issues just seems unreasonable. I hope the DJ era ends well but if it doesn’t I understand that he wasn’t set up for success. Shit look at Brock Purdy. He think he would be doing what he is doing with our team?
If I’m reading this correctly, either Jones is successful here OR it was a failure by the organization to adequately build a team around him?
You realize this is a team sport correct?
I think their brains are wired that it's easier to accept that it's one guy holding people back than the larger mess we have had the past 10 years or so.
Anyone that says he has had one weapon in the passing game or anything resembling pass protection is full of shit. He is not a Mahomes or Allen guy. But I'm sure he could be in the Hurts, Purdy, Prescott, Cousins category with an actual real offense around him.
You guys focus so much on the negatives, so passionately about it. This is going to create mental problems for you guys. I'm serious. There are many scientific studies about people non-stop complaining and the outcome is serious depression and mental problems.
Given that DJ will be the QB next season and there is no way you can change that, I think you and a few other folks should stay out of football for at least 1 year. Nothing is bigger than the health. And you are not doing any favor for your own health.
So rather than asking the OP to stop, you better stop.
In comment 16498065 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Nice guy? Hard worker? Desperately clinging to Simms and Eli comps?
No, it really doesn’t impact my health at all. You think I’m shouting from the rooftops? No. I am more resigned to it and general apathy. The Giants probably won’t even be a big priority this fall.
With that in mind, perhaps the right move is to cut Jones as soon as financially possible and get by with Lock/Devito. Spend as little as possible in terms of money and draft picks on the QB position until we have the core of the offense built up.
Let’s do what the 49ers did. Once we have a few all pros, we can begin taking a look at drafting a QB.
Those same fans laugh and mock Eli and post the photo of him looking shitfaced on the sideline.
At this point as fans you can piss and moan and complain like a bunch of 10 year old spoiled brats or you can sit back and hope for the best with the 2024/25 version of the New York Giants. I’ll choose the latter. New line, new weapons, new pass rushers, new db’s. Fresh start. If Jones blows he will be gone next year.
Go Big Blue!!!!
A healthy DJ can be an average qb with a good offense. Average will not bring championships in this current NFL. You need that special quarterback to win the Super Bowl. We don't have one and I hope our special QB can be drafted in the next couple of years. That is a tall order and we can dream that we get that franchise quarterback .
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In comment 16498066 RELICDOA said:
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I’m not saying he is a first year HOF’er. This Giants team in general has many holes. Continuously shitting on him while also understanding we have many issues just seems unreasonable. I hope the DJ era ends well but if it doesn’t I understand that he wasn’t set up for success. Shit look at Brock Purdy. He think he would be doing what he is doing with our team?
If I’m reading this correctly, either Jones is successful here OR it was a failure by the organization to adequately build a team around him?
This is correct. 2022 was all about Daniel Jones carrying the team on his back to the playoffs. Every other year was the team failing Daniel Jones, despite almost heroic efforts on his behalf.
When you hold that view, you can never be proven wrong because everything you can possibly see is supported by your bias. Success belongs to Daniel, failure belongs to everyone else.
Daniel Jones cannot fail, he can only be failed.
According to your metrics, sure. According to metrics that probably matter most to the owners, they are a very successful franchise.
In comment 16498158 Walnuts said:
With that in mind, perhaps the right move is to cut Jones as soon as financially possible and get by with Lock/Devito. Spend as little as possible in terms of money and draft picks on the QB position until we have the core of the offense built up.
Let’s do what the 49ers did. Once we have a few all pros, we can begin taking a look at drafting a QB.
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Yeah, I do do a lot of complaining about the Giants. They’re a shitty run organization.
According to your metrics, sure. According to metrics that probably matter most to the owners, they are a very successful franchise.
Are you arguing that we should all be happy if the team is losing but still making money? I’m not sure I follow what this means.
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In comment 16498066 RELICDOA said:
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I’m not saying he is a first year HOF’er. This Giants team in general has many holes. Continuously shitting on him while also understanding we have many issues just seems unreasonable. I hope the DJ era ends well but if it doesn’t I understand that he wasn’t set up for success. Shit look at Brock Purdy. He think he would be doing what he is doing with our team?
If I’m reading this correctly, either Jones is successful here OR it was a failure by the organization to adequately build a team around him?
This is correct. 2022 was all about Daniel Jones carrying the team on his back to the playoffs. Every other year was the team failing Daniel Jones, despite almost heroic efforts on his behalf.
When you hold that view, you can never be proven wrong because everything you can possibly see is supported by your bias. Success belongs to Daniel, failure belongs to everyone else.
Folks who take that extreme view are not 100% correct but on the other hand there are many who take the direct opposite and extreme view who are not 100% either.
Truthfully, we have yet to see Daniel with a 1000 yard WR let alone a pro bowl level receiver that is just fact. We have yet to see Daniel with even an average offensive line that is fact too.
So while saying Daniel is faultless is a silly take , I think saying all or even most of it is his fault is an even worse take.
With that in mind, perhaps the right move is to cut Jones as soon as financially possible and get by with Lock/Devito. Spend as little as possible in terms of money and draft picks on the QB position until we have the core of the offense built up.
Let’s do what the 49ers did. Once we have a few all pros, we can begin taking a look at drafting a QB.
"Build the team first" isn't a thing. It's never been a thing in the history of the NFL. Rosters turn over at 20-30% a year.
And when you apply the Mara "full bloom love" method of drafting quarterbacks half this team might be gone by the time the next QB is here.
https://youtu.be/GnnEyKtomSU?si=CP_RoYxoBZGXSKSm
Easiest read in Football. If the up guy is covered the back guy (Waller) is wide open. A HS QB gets benched for this play. In his 5th year Jones doesn't see it.
There is now way to defend him .
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In comment 16498118 rsjem1979 said:
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In comment 16498066 RELICDOA said:
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I’m not saying he is a first year HOF’er. This Giants team in general has many holes. Continuously shitting on him while also understanding we have many issues just seems unreasonable. I hope the DJ era ends well but if it doesn’t I understand that he wasn’t set up for success. Shit look at Brock Purdy. He think he would be doing what he is doing with our team?
If I’m reading this correctly, either Jones is successful here OR it was a failure by the organization to adequately build a team around him?
This is correct. 2022 was all about Daniel Jones carrying the team on his back to the playoffs. Every other year was the team failing Daniel Jones, despite almost heroic efforts on his behalf.
When you hold that view, you can never be proven wrong because everything you can possibly see is supported by your bias. Success belongs to Daniel, failure belongs to everyone else.
Folks who take that extreme view are not 100% correct but on the other hand there are many who take the direct opposite and extreme view who are not 100% either.
Truthfully, we have yet to see Daniel with a 1000 yard WR let alone a pro bowl level receiver that is just fact. We have yet to see Daniel with even an average offensive line that is fact too.
So while saying Daniel is faultless is a silly take , I think saying all or even most of it is his fault is an even worse take.
You know what helps get some 1000 yard receivers? Throws outside the numbers when they’re wide the hell open.
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Yeah, I do do a lot of complaining about the Giants. They’re a shitty run organization.
According to your metrics, sure. According to metrics that probably matter most to the owners, they are a very successful franchise.
Yeah four NFL Championships, and four Super Bowl wins is better than most other teams. But setting that aside, John Mara has been the owner in charge for two of those, still better than most.
Yes they have had some horrible down years which I’d frustrating for sure, but to ignore the rings is silly.
Yes, we have seen great QBs play below their max level because of their OL or skill positions underperforming - Mahomes in the SB he lost, Justin Herbert after Slater went down, 90% of Andrew Luck's career - but they never sank to the level we have seen Daniel Jones and the Giants offense sink to.
We didn't even look competitive for entire quarters at a time. That to me is what happens when an average or bad QB is dealt a shit hand. Why build around a QB that needs everything to be good or better around him?
I am not suggesting Jones has had a good situation - he certainly hasn’t. I also seem him consistently making unforced mistakes on the occasions when he does have time and and open receiver.
Two things can be true at once. The Giants offensive situation isn’t very good, and Daniel Jones isn’t a very good QB. It’s not an either/or choice.
I am not suggesting Jones has had a good situation - he certainly hasn’t. I also seem him consistently making unforced mistakes on the occasions when he does have time and and open receiver.
Two things can be true at once. The Giants offensive situation isn’t very good, and Daniel Jones isn’t a very good QB. It’s not an either/or choice.
A poster answered this earlier…. The play of the offensive line got better and the comp get easier later in the year.
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The offense was just as good if not better with Taylor and even an undrafted rookie free agent stepping in for him. Sure he has never had a 1,000 receiver. He also doesn’t push the ball down the field and often makes the wrong read. He is very likely a contributing factor to why he has never had a 1,000 yard receiver.
I am not suggesting Jones has had a good situation - he certainly hasn’t. I also seem him consistently making unforced mistakes on the occasions when he does have time and and open receiver.
Two things can be true at once. The Giants offensive situation isn’t very good, and Daniel Jones isn’t a very good QB. It’s not an either/or choice.
A poster answered this earlier…. The play of the offensive line got better and the comp get easier later in the year.
The QB play was far better. You’re going to extremes thinking Jones would have done better, when most sensible people know his ceiling.
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I know he only played 6 games, but for the most part, save the 2nd half of the Cards game, he didn’t do much at all and looked like a deer in headlights.
And please don’t tell me he had a horrible supporting cast because so did Cutlets and Taylor, and both of them looked much better.
But I will give you this- he didn’t have Andrew Thomas, LT, for all his games save one, and I know how important he is, so that obviously meant something ….so I can cut him some slack for that. I believe Thomas came back as soon as DJ got injured so maybe that is why Cutlets and Taylor looked better.
For the record I was all in on DJ until I saw his 6 games in 2023….I guess you could say I lost my faith. If he is our starter I hope I can get it back…but that will be up to him.
Neither Tyrod Taylor, nor Tommy Cutlets had been beaten to a pulp for several Sundays when they took over the offense. I'd like to see you get hit by 300 lb guys 20 or 30 times in a three hour span, and see how you feel. Put on all the padding you want. Do that every week for a couple of years. Now hit the guy about to break free across the middle 20 yards downfield with a 6'5" 300 lb guy in your face.
That is the question mental fortitude regarding being shell shocked.
Yeah he sucked last season when he played. But he was missing EVERYONE that mattered and was battered behind an inept OL. The backups benefited from the return of Thomas and others and the team played better. Cutlets won 3 games against mediocre competition.
I was hoping that they would draft someone to replace him in a year or two. His injuries are a major concern as is the fact he may well be damaged goods at this time mentally.
Where do I sign up to me a member of the DJFC? He is going to need a few of us behind him!
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The offense was just as good if not better with Taylor and even an undrafted rookie free agent stepping in for him. Sure he has never had a 1,000 receiver. He also doesn’t push the ball down the field and often makes the wrong read. He is very likely a contributing factor to why he has never had a 1,000 yard receiver.
I am not suggesting Jones has had a good situation - he certainly hasn’t. I also seem him consistently making unforced mistakes on the occasions when he does have time and and open receiver.
Two things can be true at once. The Giants offensive situation isn’t very good, and Daniel Jones isn’t a very good QB. It’s not an either/or choice.
A poster answered this earlier…. The play of the offensive line got better and the comp get easier later in the year.
I actually took a look at this - weeks 9-17 (with Thomas back) they gave up 45 sacks, so at pretty much the same pace as they did the first eight games.
But I imagine now you'll argue that sacks are partially attributable to QBs not named Jones ;)
I’m not swearing a loyalty oath to Daniel Fucking Jones. Let him earn something in his life.
Yes, we have seen great QBs play below their max level because of their OL or skill positions underperforming - Mahomes in the SB he lost, Justin Herbert after Slater went down, 90% of Andrew Luck's career - but they never sank to the level we have seen Daniel Jones and the Giants offense sink to.
We didn't even look competitive for entire quarters at a time. That to me is what happens when an average or bad QB is dealt a shit hand. Why build around a QB that needs everything to be good or better around him?
Why do GMs need scouts? Why do DBs need the front 7? It is a collective effort.
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Yeah, I do do a lot of complaining about the Giants. They’re a shitty run organization.
According to your metrics, sure. According to metrics that probably matter most to the owners, they are a very successful franchise.
So they're successful because they make money? Again, no offense, who gives a fuck?
They are a poorly run team that has made a slew of bad decisions over the past 10-12 seasons. From Coughlin losing his job and Reece didn't at the time, bad O-line drafting and FA signings (although I liked the Zeitler trade and thought the Giants should have re-signed him), their records have mirrored these decisions. While it's great that some people have a great new outlook on Jones, we have to be wary of his physical condition after 2 neck injuries and an ACL. He is what he is. To me, he's marginal at best. I would love to be proved wrong.
Yeah he sucked last season when he played. But he was missing EVERYONE that mattered and was battered behind an inept OL. The backups benefited from the return of Thomas and others and the team played better. Cutlets won 3 games against mediocre competition.
I was hoping that they would draft someone to replace him in a year or two. His injuries are a major concern as is the fact he may well be damaged goods at this time mentally.
Where do I sign up to me a member of the DJFC? He is going to need a few of us behind him!
'He has been one of the few bright spots along the way." Is this sarcasm? Are we watching the same games?
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I know he only played 6 games, but for the most part, save the 2nd half of the Cards game, he didn’t do much at all and looked like a deer in headlights.
And please don’t tell me he had a horrible supporting cast because so did Cutlets and Taylor, and both of them looked much better.
But I will give you this- he didn’t have Andrew Thomas, LT, for all his games save one, and I know how important he is, so that obviously meant something ….so I can cut him some slack for that. I believe Thomas came back as soon as DJ got injured so maybe that is why Cutlets and Taylor looked better.
For the record I was all in on DJ until I saw his 6 games in 2023….I guess you could say I lost my faith. If he is our starter I hope I can get it back…but that will be up to him.
Neither Tyrod Taylor, nor Tommy Cutlets had been beaten to a pulp for several Sundays when they took over the offense. I'd like to see you get hit by 300 lb guys 20 or 30 times in a three hour span, and see how you feel. Put on all the padding you want. Do that every week for a couple of years. Now hit the guy about to break free across the middle 20 yards downfield with a 6'5" 300 lb guy in your face.
Point noted…..that is why I did say I could cut him slack for “playing scared.”….but can we use that excuse completely for his inefficiency for those 5 games? You tell me?
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Absolutely ridiculous.
Totally. Every excuse, hope, dream, delusion and rationale is exercised for this stiff.
The comparison is none of our QB’s were Patrick Mahomes including Phil. I’m not shitting on any of our greats. You guys need to come to the realization that top flight Elite QBs are not a dime a dozen and we can win with who we have, then we can have a rational discussion. The narrative that we need a Tom Brady or Mahomes to win is ridiculous…..and again that is not to diminish any of our legends. This is a team sport. Championships are so rare! You can have all the pieces and still come up short. There should be no way in hell that we only walked away with 2 Lombardis with Parcells and that 80’s team but that’s just the way shit happens.
You guys focus so much on the negatives, so passionately about it. This is going to create mental problems for you guys. I'm serious. There are many scientific studies about people non-stop complaining and the outcome is serious depression and mental problems.
Given that DJ will be the QB next season and there is no way you can change that, I think you and a few other folks should stay out of football for at least 1 year. Nothing is bigger than the health. And you are not doing any favor for your own health.
So rather than asking the OP to stop, you better stop.
In comment 16498065 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Nice guy? Hard worker? Desperately clinging to Simms and Eli comps?
“A few other folks”……
Did you mean to say….”a few other hundred folks” …..here complain about DJ
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The offense was just as good if not better with Taylor and even an undrafted rookie free agent stepping in for him. Sure he has never had a 1,000 receiver. He also doesn’t push the ball down the field and often makes the wrong read. He is very likely a contributing factor to why he has never had a 1,000 yard receiver.
I am not suggesting Jones has had a good situation - he certainly hasn’t. I also seem him consistently making unforced mistakes on the occasions when he does have time and and open receiver.
Two things can be true at once. The Giants offensive situation isn’t very good, and Daniel Jones isn’t a very good QB. It’s not an either/or choice.
A poster answered this earlier…. The play of the offensive line got better and the comp get easier later in the year.
But the QB play from two nobodies in the overall scheme of the NFL also played better. They threw downfield, they threw TDs, they moved the ball.
They were better than a guy who makes $160M.
We don't need him to be Mahommes, Eli, or Simms. We just need him to be a competent NFL QB - he's capable of that.
Good point…speaking for myself, all I care bout is how he plays this coming season period……I’m not looking past this one season. Why should I? A lot could happen which would need to be considered before rendering any judgment then.
It's so easy to see.
Checking notes: since '01 season, those QBs have won 19 Super Bowls. So having an elite QB sure AF helps!
But this team has been indefensibly terrible. In the 11 years since Coughlin's last winning season in 2012 the Giants:
- Have the 4th worst winning percentage in the league
- Have scored the 3rd fewest touchdowns
- Have scored the 3rd fewest points
The Giants are in the company of the Jets, Jags, and Browns at the bottom of the barrel.
Yeah he sucked last season when he played. But he was missing EVERYONE that mattered and was battered behind an inept OL. The backups benefited from the return of Thomas and others and the team played better. Cutlets won 3 games against mediocre competition.
I was hoping that they would draft someone to replace him in a year or two. His injuries are a major concern as is the fact he may well be damaged goods at this time mentally.
Where do I sign up to me a member of the DJFC? He is going to need a few of us behind him!
Fall in... Amazing!
They signed Jones to a 4 year, 2 year guaranteed contract.
They tried to trade up to get Drake Maye, offered up their second round pick and a 2025 1st just to move up 3 spots. Pats said no.
So then what did the Giants do? They went BPA at nearly every pick and their draft has been praised by most pundits.
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In comment 16498218 Mike from Ohio said:
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The offense was just as good if not better with Taylor and even an undrafted rookie free agent stepping in for him. Sure he has never had a 1,000 receiver. He also doesn’t push the ball down the field and often makes the wrong read. He is very likely a contributing factor to why he has never had a 1,000 yard receiver.
I am not suggesting Jones has had a good situation - he certainly hasn’t. I also seem him consistently making unforced mistakes on the occasions when he does have time and and open receiver.
Two things can be true at once. The Giants offensive situation isn’t very good, and Daniel Jones isn’t a very good QB. It’s not an either/or choice.
A poster answered this earlier…. The play of the offensive line got better and the comp get easier later in the year.
But the QB play from two nobodies in the overall scheme of the NFL also played better. They threw downfield, they threw TDs, they moved the ball.
They were better than a guy who makes $160M.
The 49’ers and Cowboys are much better than the Patriots and Commanders. That’s the point of better Oline play as the year went on and the comp got easier. Dallas dropped 40 and 49 points on us. If we played SF 2x they would’ve scored 50 on us. Let’s think rationally and no disrespect.
Lock is talented and under Daboll's tutelage he may thrive.
Yet no one on BBI is discussing it.
Where I'm peeved is that we have to-in all likelihood-endure one more year of shitty QB play. & then we have people-& listen, people are entitled to their opinions-make excuse after excuse after excuse for Jones. Yeah, the OL sucked. But Jones sucked too. & when you're making $40 million dollars, call me loco...I expect more. I'm done with the excuses for this guy. He was drafted sixth overall, is making insane $, & is going into now his sixth year. I can't fucking take it. You have rookie CBs-the Witherspoon dude from Seattle-telling the press that he keys in on his first option. You have SF 49ers players mocking him after the TNF game.
He isn't fucking good. That's not a slight on him as a person. QB is a hard position & many have failed before him & many will fail after him.
Lock is talented and under Daboll's tutelage he may thrive.
Yet no one on BBI is discussing it.
When Drew Lock got his chance in 2020 he was arguably the worst regular starter in the NFL. He was definitely the poorest passer. It was ugly.
Four years on, maybe he's progressed?
I’ll simply say that as long as he is under center, I don’t have much faith in this team winning games. I’ll root for them to succeed, but would enjoy the team giving Drew Lock a fair chance at a camp competition to see who plays better.
Again, just my opinion. I could be proven wrong. Hopefully the new additions and surrounding talent will help. I just don’t have faith in his ability to take several steps forward.
Conversely, I hate to break the news on this sudden attempt to rationalize another decade for Jones. Schoen does not inspire optimism then if he can’t evaluate and staff an offensive line properly there are no “cents” to spare in believing he knows a good QB.
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This is seared into my memory.
https://youtu.be/GnnEyKtomSU?si=CP_RoYxoBZGXSKSm
Easiest read in Football. If the up guy is covered the back guy (Waller) is wide open. A HS QB gets benched for this play. In his 5th year Jones doesn't see it.
There is now way to defend him .
He was beaten to a pulp in that game. 11 sacks. 11.
Where I'm peeved is that we have to-in all likelihood-endure one more year of shitty QB play. & then we have people-& listen, people are entitled to their opinions-make excuse after excuse after excuse for Jones. Yeah, the OL sucked. But Jones sucked too. & when you're making $40 million dollars, call me loco...I expect more. I'm done with the excuses for this guy. He was drafted sixth overall, is making insane $, & is going into now his sixth year. I can't fucking take it. You have rookie CBs-the Witherspoon dude from Seattle-telling the press that he keys in on his first option. You have SF 49ers players mocking him after the TNF game.
He isn't fucking good. That's not a slight on him as a person. QB is a hard position & many have failed before him & many will fail after him.
Again, every single one of your posts mentions “excuse making” for Jones. The entire board has moved on. You’re the only one still bringing it up.
The truth lies somewhere in between. You choose to live on the hyper version of Jones sucks every day.
https://youtu.be/GnnEyKtomSU?si=CP_RoYxoBZGXSKSm
That was his OL's fault, or his receiver's fault.
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In comment 16498228 RELICDOA said:
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In comment 16498218 Mike from Ohio said:
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The offense was just as good if not better with Taylor and even an undrafted rookie free agent stepping in for him. Sure he has never had a 1,000 receiver. He also doesn’t push the ball down the field and often makes the wrong read. He is very likely a contributing factor to why he has never had a 1,000 yard receiver.
I am not suggesting Jones has had a good situation - he certainly hasn’t. I also seem him consistently making unforced mistakes on the occasions when he does have time and and open receiver.
Two things can be true at once. The Giants offensive situation isn’t very good, and Daniel Jones isn’t a very good QB. It’s not an either/or choice.
A poster answered this earlier…. The play of the offensive line got better and the comp get easier later in the year.
But the QB play from two nobodies in the overall scheme of the NFL also played better. They threw downfield, they threw TDs, they moved the ball.
They were better than a guy who makes $160M.
The 49’ers and Cowboys are much better than the Patriots and Commanders. That’s the point of better Oline play as the year went on and the comp got easier. Dallas dropped 40 and 49 points on us. If we played SF 2x they would’ve scored 50 on us. Let’s think rationally and no disrespect.
And Buffalo, Green Bay, LA Rams and Philly all were playoff teams and look what occurred on Offense when Daniel Jones didn’t play. Your point isn’t lost but it’s not the answer.
Let’s think rationally.
[quote] In comment 16497976 Spartan10 said:
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This is seared into my memory.
https://youtu.be/GnnEyKtomSU?si=CP_RoYxoBZGXSKSm
That was his OL's fault, or his receiver's fault. [/quote
Or someone in the third row. Or Shea Tierney's. Or the water boy.
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This is seared into my memory.
https://youtu.be/GnnEyKtomSU?si=CP_RoYxoBZGXSKSm
That was his OL's fault, or his receiver's fault.
That play would be hilarious if it were happening to another team.
For that the Giants didn't draft a QB. Mara full bloom love is strong.
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In comment 16498262 ThomasG said:
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In comment 16498228 RELICDOA said:
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In comment 16498218 Mike from Ohio said:
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The offense was just as good if not better with Taylor and even an undrafted rookie free agent stepping in for him. Sure he has never had a 1,000 receiver. He also doesn’t push the ball down the field and often makes the wrong read. He is very likely a contributing factor to why he has never had a 1,000 yard receiver.
I am not suggesting Jones has had a good situation - he certainly hasn’t. I also seem him consistently making unforced mistakes on the occasions when he does have time and and open receiver.
Two things can be true at once. The Giants offensive situation isn’t very good, and Daniel Jones isn’t a very good QB. It’s not an either/or choice.
A poster answered this earlier…. The play of the offensive line got better and the comp get easier later in the year.
But the QB play from two nobodies in the overall scheme of the NFL also played better. They threw downfield, they threw TDs, they moved the ball.
They were better than a guy who makes $160M.
The 49’ers and Cowboys are much better than the Patriots and Commanders. That’s the point of better Oline play as the year went on and the comp got easier. Dallas dropped 40 and 49 points on us. If we played SF 2x they would’ve scored 50 on us. Let’s think rationally and no disrespect.
And Buffalo, Green Bay, LA Rams and Philly all were playoff teams and look what occurred on Offense when Daniel Jones didn’t play. Your point isn’t lost but it’s not the answer.
Let’s think rationally.
You’re bringing up Buffalo? We lost the Buffalo game due to Tyrods decision at the end of the game.
The truth lies somewhere in between. You choose to live on the hyper version of Jones sucks every day.
At some point, you have to conclude that the common denominator in all this mediocrity is Jones.
Jones has been remarkably consistent over each season 180 yards a game, 6.5 yards per attempt, 7/10 of a Td a game. Regardless of who was on the line or the identity of the other skill players. This is throughly mediocre performance. Gardner Mineshew has been better. Jacoby Brissett has been a little better. These are backup- we gave our guy a $160 million contract. It is truly mind blowing.
I once watched Eli throw a pick with his left hand against the Titans. Every QB has a pick or 10 like that on their resume.
I once watched Eli throw a pick with his left hand against the Titans. Every QB has a pick or 10 like that on their resume.
Ok. Take that interception away and he's still far and away the very worst starting quarterback in the NFL in 2023. What wxcuse would you like to use to dismiss that?
I once watched Eli throw a pick with his left hand against the Titans. Every QB has a pick or 10 like that on their resume.
Can we stop comparing Eli Manning-who won a Lombardi in his 4th season-to Daniel Jones? It's so fucking insulting to the former, who will end up in Canton.
I want what you guys are smoking. The guy hasn’t broken 20 since his rookie season.
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Interception is your guys version of the Vikings playoff game.
I once watched Eli throw a pick with his left hand against the Titans. Every QB has a pick or 10 like that on their resume.
Ok. Take that interception away and he's still far and away the very worst starting quarterback in the NFL in 2023. What wxcuse would you like to use to dismiss that?
No excuses. There is also nothing I can do or say because you seem to have your mind made up.
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Interception is your guys version of the Vikings playoff game.
I once watched Eli throw a pick with his left hand against the Titans. Every QB has a pick or 10 like that on their resume.
Can we stop comparing Eli Manning-who won a Lombardi in his 4th season-to Daniel Jones? It's so fucking insulting to the former, who will end up in Canton.
Not a comparison. It's what happens with every qb.
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In comment 16498282 RELICDOA said:
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In comment 16498262 ThomasG said:
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In comment 16498228 RELICDOA said:
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In comment 16498218 Mike from Ohio said:
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The offense was just as good if not better with Taylor and even an undrafted rookie free agent stepping in for him. Sure he has never had a 1,000 receiver. He also doesn’t push the ball down the field and often makes the wrong read. He is very likely a contributing factor to why he has never had a 1,000 yard receiver.
I am not suggesting Jones has had a good situation - he certainly hasn’t. I also seem him consistently making unforced mistakes on the occasions when he does have time and and open receiver.
Two things can be true at once. The Giants offensive situation isn’t very good, and Daniel Jones isn’t a very good QB. It’s not an either/or choice.
A poster answered this earlier…. The play of the offensive line got better and the comp get easier later in the year.
But the QB play from two nobodies in the overall scheme of the NFL also played better. They threw downfield, they threw TDs, they moved the ball.
They were better than a guy who makes $160M.
The 49’ers and Cowboys are much better than the Patriots and Commanders. That’s the point of better Oline play as the year went on and the comp got easier. Dallas dropped 40 and 49 points on us. If we played SF 2x they would’ve scored 50 on us. Let’s think rationally and no disrespect.
And Buffalo, Green Bay, LA Rams and Philly all were playoff teams and look what occurred on Offense when Daniel Jones didn’t play. Your point isn’t lost but it’s not the answer.
Let’s think rationally.
You’re bringing up Buffalo? We lost the Buffalo game due to Tyrods decision at the end of the game.
It wouldn’t have been close if DJ played. Taylor didn’t close but he also kept the game competitive in the end.
Let’s think rationally.
He was a gunslinger as a rookie and has played like a Trent Dilfer disciple since...
The kid is truly an enigma.
He was a gunslinger as a rookie and has played like a Trent Dilfer disciple since...
The kid is truly an enigma.
Lol.. He didn't have the best half of anything. There have been a thousand QB halves that good. Any QB can have a great half. Bortles, Trubisky, Osweiler, Mariota have all has phenomenal hal ea of football.
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In comment 16498051 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Yeah, I do do a lot of complaining about the Giants. They’re a shitty run organization.
According to your metrics, sure. According to metrics that probably matter most to the owners, they are a very successful franchise.
So they're successful because they make money? Again, no offense, who gives a fuck?
Some people do give a fuck. You don’t, and that’s fine, but your constant complaining of how the Giants don’t meet your expectations and how other opinions are making you sick is getting old.
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Jones played some of the best football I've ever seen a QB play in second half of the Arizona game(I know...Arizona). He was phenomenal. But the magic was gone in every other game. Is he not capable or what?
He was a gunslinger as a rookie and has played like a Trent Dilfer disciple since...
The kid is truly an enigma.
Lol.. He didn't have the best half of anything. There have been a thousand QB halves that good. Any QB can have a great half. Bortles, Trubisky, Osweiler, Mariota have all has phenomenal hal ea of football.
*have all had phenomenal halves of football.
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Jones played some of the best football I've ever seen a QB play in second half of the Arizona game(I know...Arizona). He was phenomenal. But the magic was gone in every other game. Is he not capable or what?
He was a gunslinger as a rookie and has played like a Trent Dilfer disciple since...
The kid is truly an enigma.
Lol.. He didn't have the best half of anything. There have been a thousand QB halves that good. Any QB can have a great half. Bortles, Trubisky, Osweiler, Mariota have all has phenomenal hal ea of football.
That half actually did set some records. But you won't admit that either.
‘Hey, the Giants make money! Awesome! Who gives a shit about winning?’
What a fucking loser.
He was a gunslinger as a rookie and has played like a Trent Dilfer disciple since...
The kid is truly an enigma.
Protection, and just letting it fly without thinking much. Plus Daboll was calling the plays.
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In comment 16498349 ThomasG said:
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In comment 16498282 RELICDOA said:
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In comment 16498262 ThomasG said:
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In comment 16498228 RELICDOA said:
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In comment 16498218 Mike from Ohio said:
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The offense was just as good if not better with Taylor and even an undrafted rookie free agent stepping in for him. Sure he has never had a 1,000 receiver. He also doesn’t push the ball down the field and often makes the wrong read. He is very likely a contributing factor to why he has never had a 1,000 yard receiver.
I am not suggesting Jones has had a good situation - he certainly hasn’t. I also seem him consistently making unforced mistakes on the occasions when he does have time and and open receiver.
Two things can be true at once. The Giants offensive situation isn’t very good, and Daniel Jones isn’t a very good QB. It’s not an either/or choice.
A poster answered this earlier…. The play of the offensive line got better and the comp get easier later in the year.
But the QB play from two nobodies in the overall scheme of the NFL also played better. They threw downfield, they threw TDs, they moved the ball.
They were better than a guy who makes $160M.
The 49’ers and Cowboys are much better than the Patriots and Commanders. That’s the point of better Oline play as the year went on and the comp got easier. Dallas dropped 40 and 49 points on us. If we played SF 2x they would’ve scored 50 on us. Let’s think rationally and no disrespect.
And Buffalo, Green Bay, LA Rams and Philly all were playoff teams and look what occurred on Offense when Daniel Jones didn’t play. Your point isn’t lost but it’s not the answer.
Let’s think rationally.
You’re bringing up Buffalo? We lost the Buffalo game due to Tyrods decision at the end of the game.
It wouldn’t have been close if DJ played. Taylor didn’t close but he also kept the game competitive in the end.
Let’s think rationally.
Taylor was doing the Giants a favor, without that play we would have been picking 12. No Nabers for DJ.
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And SFG, there’s a massive difference between “excuse making” and realizing you can’t really play quarterback when you are pressured 38 times in a single game.
The truth lies somewhere in between. You choose to live on the hyper version of Jones sucks every day.
then it should be the Jones faction’s burden to explain why Jones has never had a good line anywhere between college and the pros no matter who was on the line or how the Giants had a functional offense with a journeyman and a UDFA at qb, or why Jones makes inexplicable mistakes and misses open receivers and throws when he does have time. Oh and while you are at it, explain the same issues with every receiver he has had ever.
At some point, you have to conclude that the common denominator in all this mediocrity is Jones.
Jones has been remarkably consistent over each season 180 yards a game, 6.5 yards per attempt, 7/10 of a Td a game. Regardless of who was on the line or the identity of the other skill players. This is throughly mediocre performance. Gardner Mineshew has been better. Jacoby Brissett has been a little better. These are backup- we gave our guy a $160 million contract. It is truly mind blowing.
So Homer or anybody else (no one is answering this question)…..if DJ is so bad, why did Schoen, Daboll, and Kafka all agree to keep DJ around after the 2022 season? I mean, first off, the guy wins 9 games, we make the playoffs for the first time in a long time, wins us a playoff game, and yet you haters still want to hate and not give him his due.
So please tell me why those 3 guys agreed to extend his contract if guys like you know more and are better at analyzing QBs than they are?
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In comment 16498335 ryanmkeane said:
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And SFG, there’s a massive difference between “excuse making” and realizing you can’t really play quarterback when you are pressured 38 times in a single game.
The truth lies somewhere in between. You choose to live on the hyper version of Jones sucks every day.
then it should be the Jones faction’s burden to explain why Jones has never had a good line anywhere between college and the pros no matter who was on the line or how the Giants had a functional offense with a journeyman and a UDFA at qb, or why Jones makes inexplicable mistakes and misses open receivers and throws when he does have time. Oh and while you are at it, explain the same issues with every receiver he has had ever.
At some point, you have to conclude that the common denominator in all this mediocrity is Jones.
Jones has been remarkably consistent over each season 180 yards a game, 6.5 yards per attempt, 7/10 of a Td a game. Regardless of who was on the line or the identity of the other skill players. This is throughly mediocre performance. Gardner Mineshew has been better. Jacoby Brissett has been a little better. These are backup- we gave our guy a $160 million contract. It is truly mind blowing.
So Homer or anybody else (no one is answering this question)…..if DJ is so bad, why did Schoen, Daboll, and Kafka all agree to keep DJ around after the 2022 season? I mean, first off, the guy wins 9 games, we make the playoffs for the first time in a long time, wins us a playoff game, and yet you haters still want to hate and not give him his due.
So please tell me why those 3 guys agreed to extend his contract if guys like you know more and are better at analyzing QBs than they are?
They probably caved to Mara. They fucked up
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In comment 16498361 HomerJones45 said:
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In comment 16498335 ryanmkeane said:
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And SFG, there’s a massive difference between “excuse making” and realizing you can’t really play quarterback when you are pressured 38 times in a single game.
The truth lies somewhere in between. You choose to live on the hyper version of Jones sucks every day.
then it should be the Jones faction’s burden to explain why Jones has never had a good line anywhere between college and the pros no matter who was on the line or how the Giants had a functional offense with a journeyman and a UDFA at qb, or why Jones makes inexplicable mistakes and misses open receivers and throws when he does have time. Oh and while you are at it, explain the same issues with every receiver he has had ever.
At some point, you have to conclude that the common denominator in all this mediocrity is Jones.
Jones has been remarkably consistent over each season 180 yards a game, 6.5 yards per attempt, 7/10 of a Td a game. Regardless of who was on the line or the identity of the other skill players. This is throughly mediocre performance. Gardner Mineshew has been better. Jacoby Brissett has been a little better. These are backup- we gave our guy a $160 million contract. It is truly mind blowing.
So Homer or anybody else (no one is answering this question)…..if DJ is so bad, why did Schoen, Daboll, and Kafka all agree to keep DJ around after the 2022 season? I mean, first off, the guy wins 9 games, we make the playoffs for the first time in a long time, wins us a playoff game, and yet you haters still want to hate and not give him his due.
So please tell me why those 3 guys agreed to extend his contract if guys like you know more and are better at analyzing QBs than they are?
They probably caved to Mara. They fucked up
I’m sorry but I don’t buy that answer. If you think Mara hs that kind of influence, wasnt Saquon a favorite of Mara? Where is he now?
If Jones plays well, stays healthy and the team is competitive, there's a good chance he's here in 2025.
If he doesn't play well and the team is losing, he'll lose his starting job to Lock or DeVito and then he'll likely be cut. The injury guarantee is a risk, but I don't expect them to factor that in until November if necessary.
I would have gone McCarthy or Penix, they didn't. They clearly only liked Williams, Daniels & Maye.
It's year to year.
‘Hey, the Giants make money! Awesome! Who gives a shit about winning?’
What a fucking loser.
So now you resort to name calling. Good move. I don’t really care if the Giants make money. I think the franchise is a good one, they’ve won 4 SBs and played in a fifth.. not bad. Most teams go through peaks and valleys, so these down years can be expect. Fans like me who’ve been watching and rooting for 50+ years should be mature enough to ride the valleys as we’ve learned they don’t last forever. Or, they can be ‘fans’ like you who whine and complain because they don’t like the QB situation. But keep doing you, and call people names because you disagree with their viewpoints.
Checking notes: since '01 season, those QBs have won 19 Super Bowls. So having an elite QB sure AF helps!
Eli isn't in the HOF conversation without the two Super Bowls. Point being, you can just be good enough and winning when it matters is what everyone will remember.
I don't see why that can't describe the career of Daniel Jones someday.
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Bob in VA…🤣🤣🤣.
‘Hey, the Giants make money! Awesome! Who gives a shit about winning?’
What a fucking loser.
So now you resort to name calling. Good move. I don’t really care if the Giants make money. I think the franchise is a good one, they’ve won 4 SBs and played in a fifth.. not bad. Most teams go through peaks and valleys, so these down years can be expect. Fans like me who’ve been watching and rooting for 50+ years should be mature enough to ride the valleys as we’ve learned they don’t last forever. Or, they can be ‘fans’ like you who whine and complain because they don’t like the QB situation. But keep doing you, and call people names because you disagree with their viewpoints.
Welcome to the cult Bob! We meet at John Maras house every Tuesday at 8 to discuss all things we love about Daniel.
If Jones plays well, stays healthy and the team is competitive, there's a good chance he's here in 2025.
If he doesn't play well and the team is losing, he'll lose his starting job to Lock or DeVito and then he'll likely be cut. The injury guarantee is a risk, but I don't expect them to factor that in until November if necessary.
I would have gone McCarthy or Penix, they didn't. They clearly only liked Williams, Daniels & Maye.
It's year to year.
Sean, I like your take…and it makes sense…..and I believe it’s the way we should accept for this year and hope for the best between Jones/Lock……but as you can see, there are a lot of guys who are tired of cutting Jones slack and who don’t want to see him QB this team and sound like they will be spewing their displeasure for quite some time.
On the other hand, there are many of us who may want or not want Jones s our starting QB but are willing to accept the decision being made to go with him/Lock. We all saw Schoen try to negotiate with Pts as were the Vikes. Both teams made great pitches but Pats were never really going to cave. It was mostly for show. So we accept this, but will still root hard and try to be optimistic still hoping for the best.
This is what we have and I doubt will change much here unless……(fill in the blank)
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Sure, one doesn't need a TB, Mahomes, P. Manning, Eli, Rodgers, Big Ben, Brees, Wilson, Stafford-all HOFers/likely ones-at QB to win.
Checking notes: since '01 season, those QBs have won 19 Super Bowls. So having an elite QB sure AF helps!
Eli isn't in the HOF conversation without the two Super Bowls. Point being, you can just be good enough and winning when it matters is what everyone will remember.
I don't see why that can't describe the career of Daniel Jones someday.
After year 5 Eli had one SB win, 2 division titles, and 4 consecutive playoff appearances.
What is the timeline on this “some day?”
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Some of you idiots just need to shut up and fall in behind your Giants QB. The team around him has been a shit show all 5 years he has been here yet he has been one of the few bright spots along the way.
Yeah he sucked last season when he played. But he was missing EVERYONE that mattered and was battered behind an inept OL. The backups benefited from the return of Thomas and others and the team played better. Cutlets won 3 games against mediocre competition.
I was hoping that they would draft someone to replace him in a year or two. His injuries are a major concern as is the fact he may well be damaged goods at this time mentally.
Where do I sign up to me a member of the DJFC? He is going to need a few of us behind him!
'He has been one of the few bright spots along the way." Is this sarcasm? Are we watching the same games?
Apparently we are not. Jones is not why this team has sucked. Jones is not the reason to hey have a losing record in his 5 years. The TEAM has sucked beyond belief. Shit defense and outside of Barkley and Thomas...nothing on offense. It's been a joke and the clowns here think drafting a new QB will magically make the Giants good again. The one good year we had in 22....Jones was pretty damn good.
We will have a new QB soon enough. But I will root for the guy standing behind center.
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In comment 16498414 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Bob in VA…🤣🤣🤣.
‘Hey, the Giants make money! Awesome! Who gives a shit about winning?’
What a fucking loser.
So now you resort to name calling. Good move. I don’t really care if the Giants make money. I think the franchise is a good one, they’ve won 4 SBs and played in a fifth.. not bad. Most teams go through peaks and valleys, so these down years can be expect. Fans like me who’ve been watching and rooting for 50+ years should be mature enough to ride the valleys as we’ve learned they don’t last forever. Or, they can be ‘fans’ like you who whine and complain because they don’t like the QB situation. But keep doing you, and call people names because you disagree with their viewpoints.
Welcome to the cult Bob! We meet at John Maras house every Tuesday at 8 to discuss all things we love about Daniel.
It’s simple for me….I love the Giants….I also love Schoen and Daboll….and I’m willing to be patient and trust their decisions knowing they have a plan but also knowing some things take time.
They loved Maye but couldn’t get him….so they are playing with the deck of cards given to them. Things can always change….I feel confident our leaders can adapt.
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In comment 16498512 Bob in VA said:
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In comment 16498414 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Bob in VA…🤣🤣🤣.
‘Hey, the Giants make money! Awesome! Who gives a shit about winning?’
What a fucking loser.
So now you resort to name calling. Good move. I don’t really care if the Giants make money. I think the franchise is a good one, they’ve won 4 SBs and played in a fifth.. not bad. Most teams go through peaks and valleys, so these down years can be expect. Fans like me who’ve been watching and rooting for 50+ years should be mature enough to ride the valleys as we’ve learned they don’t last forever. Or, they can be ‘fans’ like you who whine and complain because they don’t like the QB situation. But keep doing you, and call people names because you disagree with their viewpoints.
Welcome to the cult Bob! We meet at John Maras house every Tuesday at 8 to discuss all things we love about Daniel.
It’s simple for me….I love the Giants….I also love Schoen and Daboll….and I’m willing to be patient and trust their decisions knowing they have a plan but also knowing some things take time.
They loved Maye but couldn’t get him….so they are playing with the deck of cards given to them. Things can always change….I feel confident our leaders can adapt.
I really think Nabers will open things up. I just don't know how Jones will handle the beating he has taking mentally at this point. He is a talented guy and I still have some cautious hope for him.
Either way though some people are going to try and kill this site with the constant obsession about complaining about Jones. I found myself coming less and less due to this because it's the same posters and they name call if you want to have a fair and open discussion.
Who cares? What does that have to do with him being any good or not, and what does that have to do with him being an overpaid poor quarterback?
We're all rooting for the Giants to be a good team. Those of us that are angry are so because we see their actions are preventing that from happening.
How much more proof do you need? I've been asking some derivative of that question since 2018. I can't believe this team is still in this quagmire. What a shitty draft this was. Oof.
If you have any insightful analysis, news, updates, even jokes, please share. That'd be really appreciated.
In comment 16498560 Go Terps said:
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But I will root for the guy standing behind center.
Who cares? What does that have to do with him being any good or not, and what does that have to do with him being an overpaid poor quarterback?
We're all rooting for the Giants to be a good team. Those of us that are angry are so because we see their actions are preventing that from happening.
How much more proof do you need? I've been asking some derivative of that question since 2018. I can't believe this team is still in this quagmire. What a shitty draft this was. Oof.
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Bob in VA…🤣🤣🤣.
‘Hey, the Giants make money! Awesome! Who gives a shit about winning?’
What a fucking loser.
So now you resort to name calling. Good move. I don’t really care if the Giants make money. I think the franchise is a good one, they’ve won 4 SBs and played in a fifth.. not bad. Most teams go through peaks and valleys, so these down years can be expect. Fans like me who’ve been watching and rooting for 50+ years should be mature enough to ride the valleys as we’ve learned they don’t last forever. Or, they can be ‘fans’ like you who whine and complain because they don’t like the QB situation. But keep doing you, and call people names because you disagree with their viewpoints.
No pal. You said you pretty much prioritized them making money over winning. Don’t try to weasel out of that.
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In comment 16498238 AnnapolisMike said:
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Some of you idiots just need to shut up and fall in behind your Giants QB. The team around him has been a shit show all 5 years he has been here yet he has been one of the few bright spots along the way.
Yeah he sucked last season when he played. But he was missing EVERYONE that mattered and was battered behind an inept OL. The backups benefited from the return of Thomas and others and the team played better. Cutlets won 3 games against mediocre competition.
I was hoping that they would draft someone to replace him in a year or two. His injuries are a major concern as is the fact he may well be damaged goods at this time mentally.
Where do I sign up to me a member of the DJFC? He is going to need a few of us behind him!
'He has been one of the few bright spots along the way." Is this sarcasm? Are we watching the same games?
Apparently we are not. Jones is not why this team has sucked. Jones is not the reason to hey have a losing record in his 5 years. The TEAM has sucked beyond belief. Shit defense and outside of Barkley and Thomas...nothing on offense. It's been a joke and the clowns here think drafting a new QB will magically make the Giants good again. The one good year we had in 22....Jones was pretty damn good.
We will have a new QB soon enough. But I will root for the guy standing behind center.
He threw 15 TDs in ‘22. Can we please stop saying he was ‘pretty damn good’ in ‘22?
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In comment 16498447 5BowlsSoon said:
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In comment 16498361 HomerJones45 said:
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In comment 16498335 ryanmkeane said:
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And SFG, there’s a massive difference between “excuse making” and realizing you can’t really play quarterback when you are pressured 38 times in a single game.
The truth lies somewhere in between. You choose to live on the hyper version of Jones sucks every day.
then it should be the Jones faction’s burden to explain why Jones has never had a good line anywhere between college and the pros no matter who was on the line or how the Giants had a functional offense with a journeyman and a UDFA at qb, or why Jones makes inexplicable mistakes and misses open receivers and throws when he does have time. Oh and while you are at it, explain the same issues with every receiver he has had ever.
At some point, you have to conclude that the common denominator in all this mediocrity is Jones.
Jones has been remarkably consistent over each season 180 yards a game, 6.5 yards per attempt, 7/10 of a Td a game. Regardless of who was on the line or the identity of the other skill players. This is throughly mediocre performance. Gardner Mineshew has been better. Jacoby Brissett has been a little better. These are backup- we gave our guy a $160 million contract. It is truly mind blowing.
So Homer or anybody else (no one is answering this question)…..if DJ is so bad, why did Schoen, Daboll, and Kafka all agree to keep DJ around after the 2022 season? I mean, first off, the guy wins 9 games, we make the playoffs for the first time in a long time, wins us a playoff game, and yet you haters still want to hate and not give him his due.
So please tell me why those 3 guys agreed to extend his contract if guys like you know more and are better at analyzing QBs than they are?
They probably caved to Mara. They fucked up
I’m sorry but I don’t buy that answer. If you think Mara hs that kind of influence, wasnt Saquon a favorite of Mara? Where is he now?
You don't think Mara has that kind of influence? He owns the fucking team. He can do whatever he wants. You think 3 regimes were all in on Daniel Jones after the garbage production he put up? The constants here are John Mara and Daniel Jones. I'm tired of dancing around the issue. Mara made them pass on the Maye deal. Mara is keeping Jones in place.
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In comment 16498414 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Bob in VA…🤣🤣🤣.
‘Hey, the Giants make money! Awesome! Who gives a shit about winning?’
What a fucking loser.
So now you resort to name calling. Good move. I don’t really care if the Giants make money. I think the franchise is a good one, they’ve won 4 SBs and played in a fifth.. not bad. Most teams go through peaks and valleys, so these down years can be expect. Fans like me who’ve been watching and rooting for 50+ years should be mature enough to ride the valleys as we’ve learned they don’t last forever. Or, they can be ‘fans’ like you who whine and complain because they don’t like the QB situation. But keep doing you, and call people names because you disagree with their viewpoints.
No pal. You said you pretty much prioritized them making money over winning. Don’t try to weasel out of that.
Now you’re reading something that isn’t there. Go back and re-read the posts, nowhere did I prioritize anything.
Listen, I'm glad you're happy that John Mara that Mara sleeps with a roof over his head. I'd rather, ya know, win, but to each their own.
The OL that can block well for Jones doesn’t exist. It’s a figment of the imagination.
Listen, I'm glad you're happy that John Mara that Mara sleeps with a roof over his head. I'd rather, ya know, win, but to each their own.
I didn’t say I’m happy Mara sleeps with a roof over his head. Again, you conclude something that is backed with no evidence. I agree, winning is great, and I too would like to see the Giants win more games. But unlike you, I’m not here saying how sick I am about other’s opinions, claiming the organization is poorly run, or ya know, calling people names. You’re acting like a child, in more ways than one.
If you look at the last 10 seasons (just for the sake of round numbers):
- Giants have the 3rd fewest wins
- Scored the 2nd fewest points
- Scored the 3rd fewest touchdowns
Now, if the success the team had 1, 2, 3, 4 decades ago is enough to convince a fan the team is ran well, that's cool.
I think a 10-year stretch of near league leading failure is enough to establish something is pretty wrong.
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But I will root for the guy standing behind center.
Who cares? What does that have to do with him being any good or not, and what does that have to do with him being an overpaid poor quarterback?
We're all rooting for the Giants to be a good team. Those of us that are angry are so because we see their actions are preventing that from happening.
How much more proof do you need? I've been asking some derivative of that question since 2018. I can't believe this team is still in this quagmire. What a shitty draft this was. Oof.
"What a shitty draft this was. Oof"
-Giants are being universally praised for the Nabers pick. In fact, he's being called the best non-QB player in the entire draft by some, one guy actually thinks he's the very best player. Giants got him at 6.
-Giants are being praised for the Nubin pick. Sy thinks he might be better than McKinney right now and he'll make about 17M less dollars than him. A top safety with great ball skills and tackling at 47 overall.
-Nick Saban called Dru Phillips one of the sneaky best corners in the draft and loves his game. Giants have basically 1 corner on the roster who can be counted on. Phillips was Jeremiah's 50th rated player and we got him at 70.
-Giants being praised for the Theo Johnson pick as a high upside pick in the 4th round.
Again - your job is to bitch and moan about everything the Giants do as long as Daniel Jones is still the quarterback. Most of us who live in reality are going to accept the fact that the Giants did their best to land another QB and couldn't do it. In fact, they offered the Pats their 2nd round pick this year, and their 2025 1st, just to move up 3 spots, and the Pats still said no.
Get over it.
If you look at the last 10 seasons (just for the sake of round numbers):
- Giants have the 3rd fewest wins
- Scored the 2nd fewest points
- Scored the 3rd fewest touchdowns
Now, if the success the team had 1, 2, 3, 4 decades ago is enough to convince a fan the team is ran well, that's cool.
I think a 10-year stretch of near league leading failure is enough to establish something is pretty wrong.
The point for mentioning the NYG financial success is to highlight the priorities of the ownership are not the same as the priorities of the fans.
But, there he is.
So, for 2024, if the QB position is bad, it's because DJ is bad.
No excuses.
For BBI, please stop whining about Jones. If you don't like him, you have probably made your point 1000 times.
Complaining about excuses is as tiresome as the excuses themselves.
If you look at the last 10 seasons (just for the sake of round numbers):
- Giants have the 3rd fewest wins
- Scored the 2nd fewest points
- Scored the 3rd fewest touchdowns
Now, if the success the team had 1, 2, 3, 4 decades ago is enough to convince a fan the team is ran well, that's cool.
I think a 10-year stretch of near league leading failure is enough to establish something is pretty wrong.
The point for mentioning the NYG financial success is to highlight the priorities of the ownership are not the same as the priorities of the fans.
I think we all understand that. The lion's share of financial success the Giants enjoy is a product of league-wide endeavors, specifically national TV contracts.
So if the on-field product has been the 3rd worst over the past 10 years, and the majority of the financial success is brokered by the league, are you really so sure the Giants are a well run organization?
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You said something alone the lines of the 'Maras are pretty successful by NFL metrics that matter most to owners', implying $ because they're one of the most valuable franchises.
Listen, I'm glad you're happy that John Mara that Mara sleeps with a roof over his head. I'd rather, ya know, win, but to each their own.
I didn’t say I’m happy Mara sleeps with a roof over his head. Again, you conclude something that is backed with no evidence. I agree, winning is great, and I too would like to see the Giants win more games. But unlike you, I’m not here saying how sick I am about other’s opinions, claiming the organization is poorly run, or ya know, calling people names. You’re acting like a child, in more ways than one.
Again, completely making shit up.
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In comment 16498640 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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You said something alone the lines of the 'Maras are pretty successful by NFL metrics that matter most to owners', implying $ because they're one of the most valuable franchises.
Listen, I'm glad you're happy that John Mara that Mara sleeps with a roof over his head. I'd rather, ya know, win, but to each their own.
I didn’t say I’m happy Mara sleeps with a roof over his head. Again, you conclude something that is backed with no evidence. I agree, winning is great, and I too would like to see the Giants win more games. But unlike you, I’m not here saying how sick I am about other’s opinions, claiming the organization is poorly run, or ya know, calling people names. You’re acting like a child, in more ways than one.
Again, completely making shit up.
What have I made up?
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The Giants have been wildly financially successful (as have all NFL teams) over the last 10 years.
If you look at the last 10 seasons (just for the sake of round numbers):
- Giants have the 3rd fewest wins
- Scored the 2nd fewest points
- Scored the 3rd fewest touchdowns
Now, if the success the team had 1, 2, 3, 4 decades ago is enough to convince a fan the team is ran well, that's cool.
I think a 10-year stretch of near league leading failure is enough to establish something is pretty wrong.
The point for mentioning the NYG financial success is to highlight the priorities of the ownership are not the same as the priorities of the fans.
I think we all understand that. The lion's share of financial success the Giants enjoy is a product of league-wide endeavors, specifically national TV contracts.
So if the on-field product has been the 3rd worst over the past 10 years, and the majority of the financial success is brokered by the league, are you really so sure the Giants are a well run organization?
If the ‘majority’ (not sure how you define that, but let’s go with it) of financial success is brokered by the league, then why arent team revenues and values nearly identical?
You said you’re sick of the excuses for Jones’ performance. Those excuses come from people expressing opinion on what may have contributed to that poor performance or what may contribute to better performance in the future.
If your sick and tired of watching Jones - maybe take a break from watching them. Theres nothing that can be done now until the next draft. But if posters feel the need to post the same stuff 50 times a thread on every thread for their therapy session - well so be it.
But when adversity hit, he folded.
Aside from his injury history, I think he's even more screwed up in the head. If he had Daboll since rookie year I think he'd be different now but no he had Joe Judge. Can you fix upstairs?
The fact that both Tyrod Taylor AND Devito outplayed him.. thats indefensible.
I will root for him, but the Giants are just treading water right now.. but heading out into deeper waters, lets see if this FO can make it out.
So if the on-field product has been the 3rd worst over the past 10 years, and the majority of the financial success is brokered by the league, are you really so sure the Giants are a well run organization?
If the ‘majority’ (not sure how you define that, but let’s go with it) of financial success is brokered by the league, then why arent team revenues and values nearly identical?
Because majority means most not all.
Despite virtually all of the NFL franchises being private institutions, the Green Bay Packers are a public company and therefore have to report earnings. This gives us insight to how much each teams earns from media rights, and gives us a good proxy to estimate how other teams are doing.
For the 2023 season, each team will receive ~400M in what's called national NFL revenue (I'm inferring this as the 2022 number was 374M, and the published increase in per team TV revenue for 2023 was +20M per team, and the estimate of total shared revenue has grown at about 27M YoY).
The 2022 operating revenue for the Packers was 610M. The difference between the 370M and 610M is what's called local revenue. This is mostly ticket, PSLs, parking, and concession sales, and stadium advertising.
The Giants have a bigger stadium and charge more for these things, so their total revenue is surely more than the Packers. But for local revenue to exceed 400M and equal what they earn from national NFL revenue is unlikely. They play the same number of games, so it's very likely the majority of revenue is still coming from the NFL.
And that doesn't even take into consideration net profit, which would really tell the story of being a well ran business. But we do't have access to that information.
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I think we all understand that. The lion's share of financial success the Giants enjoy is a product of league-wide endeavors, specifically national TV contracts.
So if the on-field product has been the 3rd worst over the past 10 years, and the majority of the financial success is brokered by the league, are you really so sure the Giants are a well run organization?
If the ‘majority’ (not sure how you define that, but let’s go with it) of financial success is brokered by the league, then why arent team revenues and values nearly identical?
Because majority means most not all.
Despite virtually all of the NFL franchises being private institutions, the Green Bay Packers are a public company and therefore have to report earnings. This gives us insight to how much each teams earns from media rights, and gives us a good proxy to estimate how other teams are doing.
For the 2023 season, each team will receive ~400M in what's called national NFL revenue (I'm inferring this as the 2022 number was 374M, and the published increase in per team TV revenue for 2023 was +20M per team, and the estimate of total shared revenue has grown at about 27M YoY).
The 2022 operating revenue for the Packers was 610M. The difference between the 370M and 610M is what's called local revenue. This is mostly ticket, PSLs, parking, and concession sales, and stadium advertising.
The Giants have a bigger stadium and charge more for these things, so their total revenue is surely more than the Packers. But for local revenue to exceed 400M and equal what they earn from national NFL revenue is unlikely. They play the same number of games, so it's very likely the majority of revenue is still coming from the NFL.
And that doesn't even take into consideration net profit, which would really tell the story of being a well ran business. But we do't have access to that information.
Don't take my word for it, read here: https://nypost.com/sports/the-best-nfl-franchises-of-the-super-bowl-era-ranked/. Sure, opinions vary, but rarely will you find an educated perspective that concludes the Giants are a poorly run franchise.
Folks on this site often conclude the organization is 'shitty', or poorly run, because of low win totals or player decisions they disagree with.
In the end, no, the organization is not poorly run but we hear a lot of cry-babies claim such.
Despite virtually all of the NFL franchises being private institutions, the Green Bay Packers are a public company and therefore have to report earnings. This gives us insight to how much each teams earns from media rights, and gives us a good proxy to estimate how other teams are doing.
For the 2023 season, each team will receive ~400M in what's called national NFL revenue (I'm inferring this as the 2022 number was 374M, and the published increase in per team TV revenue for 2023 was +20M per team, and the estimate of total shared revenue has grown at about 27M YoY).
The 2022 operating revenue for the Packers was 610M. The difference between the 370M and 610M is what's called local revenue. This is mostly ticket, PSLs, parking, and concession sales, and stadium advertising.
The Giants have a bigger stadium and charge more for these things, so their total revenue is surely more than the Packers. But for local revenue to exceed 400M and equal what they earn from national NFL revenue is unlikely. They play the same number of games, so it's very likely the majority of revenue is still coming from the NFL.
And that doesn't even take into consideration net profit, which would really tell the story of being a well ran business. But we do't have access to that information.
Don't take my word for it, read here: https://nypost.com/sports/the-best-nfl-franchises-of-the-super-bowl-era-ranked/. Sure, opinions vary, but rarely will you find an educated perspective that concludes the Giants are a poorly run franchise.
Folks on this site often conclude the organization is 'shitty', or poorly run, because of low win totals or player decisions they disagree with.
In the end, no, the organization is not poorly run but we hear a lot of cry-babies claim such.
That's a pretty dubious list if the Commanders are two spots behind the Giants. I wouldn't categorize the owner being effectively forced to sell the team in part because he was spying on the cheerleaders as a hallmark of a well run shop.
I think the trailing 10 years of results are a pretty good data point to at least analyze the on-the-field results.
And over that time the only teams with fewer wins are the Jaguars and Jets.
How about we frame the question like this: do you believe the Giants have been a well run franchise over the last 10 years?
Simms - was benched injured and did not come into his own until year 6
Hoffsetter - was our back up QB
Collins - was picked up off the trash heap after having problems
Eli - two less than perfect teams got on a roll
I thought about it, and have come to the conclusion that it has absolutely nothing to do with the 2024 Giants.
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Because majority means most not all.
Despite virtually all of the NFL franchises being private institutions, the Green Bay Packers are a public company and therefore have to report earnings. This gives us insight to how much each teams earns from media rights, and gives us a good proxy to estimate how other teams are doing.
For the 2023 season, each team will receive ~400M in what's called national NFL revenue (I'm inferring this as the 2022 number was 374M, and the published increase in per team TV revenue for 2023 was +20M per team, and the estimate of total shared revenue has grown at about 27M YoY).
The 2022 operating revenue for the Packers was 610M. The difference between the 370M and 610M is what's called local revenue. This is mostly ticket, PSLs, parking, and concession sales, and stadium advertising.
The Giants have a bigger stadium and charge more for these things, so their total revenue is surely more than the Packers. But for local revenue to exceed 400M and equal what they earn from national NFL revenue is unlikely. They play the same number of games, so it's very likely the majority of revenue is still coming from the NFL.
And that doesn't even take into consideration net profit, which would really tell the story of being a well ran business. But we do't have access to that information.
Don't take my word for it, read here: https://nypost.com/sports/the-best-nfl-franchises-of-the-super-bowl-era-ranked/. Sure, opinions vary, but rarely will you find an educated perspective that concludes the Giants are a poorly run franchise.
Folks on this site often conclude the organization is 'shitty', or poorly run, because of low win totals or player decisions they disagree with.
In the end, no, the organization is not poorly run but we hear a lot of cry-babies claim such.
That's a pretty dubious list if the Commanders are two spots behind the Giants. I wouldn't categorize the owner being effectively forced to sell the team in part because he was spying on the cheerleaders as a hallmark of a well run shop.
I think the trailing 10 years of results are a pretty good data point to at least analyze the on-the-field results.
And over that time the only teams with fewer wins are the Jaguars and Jets.
How about we frame the question like this: do you believe the Giants have been a well run franchise over the last 10 years?
Certainly is a good question. If posed to me, I'd either have to ask what metrics you're using to determine what 'well-run' means, or I'd have to provide the metrics that justify my answer.
My answer: yes, the NYG are a well-run organization based on historic SB success and franchise value/revenue streams consistently near the top of the league.
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In comment 16498447 5BowlsSoon said:
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In comment 16498361 HomerJones45 said:
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In comment 16498335 ryanmkeane said:
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And SFG, there’s a massive difference between “excuse making” and realizing you can’t really play quarterback when you are pressured 38 times in a single game.
The truth lies somewhere in between. You choose to live on the hyper version of Jones sucks every day.
then it should be the Jones faction’s burden to explain why Jones has never had a good line anywhere between college and the pros no matter who was on the line or how the Giants had a functional offense with a journeyman and a UDFA at qb, or why Jones makes inexplicable mistakes and misses open receivers and throws when he does have time. Oh and while you are at it, explain the same issues with every receiver he has had ever.
At some point, you have to conclude that the common denominator in all this mediocrity is Jones.
Jones has been remarkably consistent over each season 180 yards a game, 6.5 yards per attempt, 7/10 of a Td a game. Regardless of who was on the line or the identity of the other skill players. This is throughly mediocre performance. Gardner Mineshew has been better. Jacoby Brissett has been a little better. These are backup- we gave our guy a $160 million contract. It is truly mind blowing.
So Homer or anybody else (no one is answering this question)…..if DJ is so bad, why did Schoen, Daboll, and Kafka all agree to keep DJ around after the 2022 season? I mean, first off, the guy wins 9 games, we make the playoffs for the first time in a long time, wins us a playoff game, and yet you haters still want to hate and not give him his due.
So please tell me why those 3 guys agreed to extend his contract if guys like you know more and are better at analyzing QBs than they are?
They probably caved to Mara. They fucked up
I’m sorry but I don’t buy that answer. If you think Mara hs that kind osionnell?
luence over perf influence, wasnt Saquon a favorite of Mara? Where is he now?
Mara said himself he would not trade Barkley because "He deserved better"...
You honestly believe Mara doesn't have that kind of influence over personnel?
Certainly is a good question. If posed to me, I'd either have to ask what metrics you're using to determine what 'well-run' means, or I'd have to provide the metrics that justify my answer.
My answer: yes, the NYG are a well-run organization based on historic SB success and franchise value/revenue streams consistently near the top of the league.
I'd argue the three ways to evaluate a team are:
1) Net profit - Because over half the revenue is spotted to the team, revenue isn't a great reflection of operations. We can make a pretty good guess on the top line, be we don't have enough information on their costs, debt, etc.
2) Valuation - Any business getting spotted 400M in revenue is going to enjoy a healthy valuation. Like all sports franchises the Giants value has risen the last decade, because of the guaranteed revenue stream and because franchises are a playground for billionaires.
3) On-the-field performance - As noted above, the Giants have the third worst performance on the field of all teams over the last 10 years.
So over the last 10 years, the two things we know are the Giants have been the third worst team and the value of the franchise has risen, in large part because the majority of the revenue is spotted to the team.
All NFL teams make a lot of money. And the Giants are the biggest team in the biggest market.
All NFL teams make a lot of money. And the Giants are the biggest team in the biggest market.
No one is claiming the Giants are great.
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How about we frame the question like this: do you believe the Giants have been a well run franchise over the last 10 years?
Certainly is a good question. If posed to me, I'd either have to ask what metrics you're using to determine what 'well-run' means, or I'd have to provide the metrics that justify my answer.
My answer: yes, the NYG are a well-run organization based on historic SB success and franchise value/revenue streams consistently near the top of the league.
I'd argue the three ways to evaluate a team are:
1) Net profit - Because over half the revenue is spotted to the team, revenue isn't a great reflection of operations. We can make a pretty good guess on the top line, be we don't have enough information on their costs, debt, etc.
2) Valuation - Any business getting spotted 400M in revenue is going to enjoy a healthy valuation. Like all sports franchises the Giants value has risen the last decade, because of the guaranteed revenue stream and because franchises are a playground for billionaires.
3) On-the-field performance - As noted above, the Giants have the third worst performance on the field of all teams over the last 10 years.
So over the last 10 years, the two things we know are the Giants have been the third worst team and the value of the franchise has risen, in large part because the majority of the revenue is spotted to the team.
Not sure what your point is. Yes, in the last 10 years the win-loss record has sucked.. third worst.
All teams have increased their value over the last 10 years. And all teams have been spotted a majority of their revenue by the league. My point is that the NYG are consistently near the top of the value/revenue list every year. As such, I conclude they are not a poorly run organization.
Obviously not everyone uses the same metrics to conclude which teams are well-run and which aren't; I'd be interested in hearing which teams the whiners and complainers claim to be well-run, and the metrics they use to support those conclusions.
Obviously not everyone uses the same metrics to conclude which teams are well-run and which aren't; I'd be interested in hearing which teams the whiners and complainers claim to be well-run, and the metrics they use to support those conclusions.
It feels a little like you have backed yourself into a corner here and are looking to somehow tunnel into it further.
I'll take a shot at it. I think many, if not all, fans assess their team's success using some combination of win-loss records, playoff appearances, and championships.
I think you may be the only fan evaluating it based on money earned in a league that virtually prints it for all 32 teams.
Not sure what your point is. Yes, in the last 10 years the win-loss record has sucked.. third worst.
All teams have increased their value over the last 10 years. And all teams have been spotted a majority of their revenue by the league. My point is that the NYG are consistently near the top of the value/revenue list every year. As such, I conclude they are not a poorly run organization.
Obviously not everyone uses the same metrics to conclude which teams are well-run and which aren't; I'd be interested in hearing which teams the whiners and complainers claim to be well-run, and the metrics they use to support those conclusions
The valuation and revenue are not good metrics to assess the well-running of a business. The Giants are worth a lot in large part because of their geography and the value of their interest in the stadium. Revenue is a topline number that only measures how much you bring in, not whether you are profitable.
Even if you bring it down a step in the P&L and look at operating income, you don't know if the team has offloaded debt to another entity and what the true service of that debt is.
The two things we know are:
1) The Giants bring in a lot of money
2) They've sucked on the field
The one piece of evidence we can point to that directionally helps us understand their finance, is that they were able to secure the financing to pay for 50% of the stadium. That's more than 10-year-old data at this point though.
You can find various reports online that the Giants operating income is ~200M. I'm not sure where that's sourced, because I don't believe that's publicly reported. If that 200M is after all costs, then yes, the Giants are financially solid.
So best guess, the Giants run a good financial shop, and a terrible football shop.
They win and we lose.
Soccer may be the biggest sport in the world. But in terms of entertainment product. Nothing on the planet touches the NFL. And the big market and legacy franchises benefit from that. The Giants did nothing to merit accolades for their financial success. All they did was be a part of the NFL.
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Obviously not everyone uses the same metrics to conclude which teams are well-run and which aren't; I'd be interested in hearing which teams the whiners and complainers claim to be well-run, and the metrics they use to support those conclusions.
It feels a little like you have backed yourself into a corner here and are looking to somehow tunnel into it further.
I'll take a shot at it. I think many, if not all, fans assess their team's success using some combination of win-loss records, playoff appearances, and championships.
I think you may be the only fan evaluating it based on money earned in a league that virtually prints it for all 32 teams.
I'm in no way trying to back off my position. If you look back at the posts (I don't really suggest you do that), my disagreement with some whining poster is that he complained the Giants are a poorly run organization, seemingly based on the player decisions they make. My point is that they aren't poorly run, and provide the measures against which I base my perspective.
I'll also establish that the primary objective of the NYG ownership is to run a financially successful business, not to draft, trade, or sign players based on fan opinions, which seems to be what some folks on this site expect from them.
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In comment 16498452 Darwinian said:
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In comment 16498447 5BowlsSoon said:
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In comment 16498361 HomerJones45 said:
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In comment 16498335 ryanmkeane said:
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And SFG, there’s a massive difference between “excuse making” and realizing you can’t really play quarterback when you are pressured 38 times in a single game.
The truth lies somewhere in between. You choose to live on the hyper version of Jones sucks every day.
then it should be the Jones faction’s burden to explain why Jones has never had a good line anywhere between college and the pros no matter who was on the line or how the Giants had a functional offense with a journeyman and a UDFA at qb, or why Jones makes inexplicable mistakes and misses open receivers and throws when he does have time. Oh and while you are at it, explain the same issues with every receiver he has had ever.
At some point, you have to conclude that the common denominator in all this mediocrity is Jones.
Jones has been remarkably consistent over each season 180 yards a game, 6.5 yards per attempt, 7/10 of a Td a game. Regardless of who was on the line or the identity of the other skill players. This is throughly mediocre performance. Gardner Mineshew has been better. Jacoby Brissett has been a little better. These are backup- we gave our guy a $160 million contract. It is truly mind blowing.
So Homer or anybody else (no one is answering this question)…..if DJ is so bad, why did Schoen, Daboll, and Kafka all agree to keep DJ around after the 2022 season? I mean, first off, the guy wins 9 games, we make the playoffs for the first time in a long time, wins us a playoff game, and yet you haters still want to hate and not give him his due.
So please tell me why those 3 guys agreed to extend his contract if guys like you know more and are better at analyzing QBs than they are?
They probably caved to Mara. They fucked up
I’m sorry but I don’t buy that answer. If you think Mara hs that kind of influence, wasnt Saquon a favorite of Mara? Where is he now?
You don't think Mara has that kind of influence? He owns the fucking team. He can do whatever he wants. You think 3 regimes were all in on Daniel Jones after the garbage production he put up? The constants here are John Mara and Daniel Jones. I'm tired of dancing around the issue. Mara made them pass on the Maye deal. Mara is keeping Jones in place.
ahhhh. This "new" nutjob smells familiar ...
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In comment 16499244 Bob in VA said:
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Obviously not everyone uses the same metrics to conclude which teams are well-run and which aren't; I'd be interested in hearing which teams the whiners and complainers claim to be well-run, and the metrics they use to support those conclusions.
It feels a little like you have backed yourself into a corner here and are looking to somehow tunnel into it further.
I'll take a shot at it. I think many, if not all, fans assess their team's success using some combination of win-loss records, playoff appearances, and championships.
I think you may be the only fan evaluating it based on money earned in a league that virtually prints it for all 32 teams.
I'm in no way trying to back off my position. If you look back at the posts (I don't really suggest you do that), my disagreement with some whining poster is that he complained the Giants are a poorly run organization, seemingly based on the player decisions they make. My point is that they aren't poorly run, and provide the measures against which I base my perspective.
I'll also establish that the primary objective of the NYG ownership is to run a financially successful business, not to draft, trade, or sign players based on fan opinions, which seems to be what some folks on this site expect from them.
By the metrics of financial success no NFL team is poorly run. By those metrics alone Daniel Snyder was an amazing owner by netting $5.2B from an initial $800M investment. By financial metrics Daniel Snyder might have been the best owner in the NFL the last 20 years. Are you prepared to say that?
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In comment 16499307 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 16499244 Bob in VA said:
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Obviously not everyone uses the same metrics to conclude which teams are well-run and which aren't; I'd be interested in hearing which teams the whiners and complainers claim to be well-run, and the metrics they use to support those conclusions.
It feels a little like you have backed yourself into a corner here and are looking to somehow tunnel into it further.
I'll take a shot at it. I think many, if not all, fans assess their team's success using some combination of win-loss records, playoff appearances, and championships.
I think you may be the only fan evaluating it based on money earned in a league that virtually prints it for all 32 teams.
I'm in no way trying to back off my position. If you look back at the posts (I don't really suggest you do that), my disagreement with some whining poster is that he complained the Giants are a poorly run organization, seemingly based on the player decisions they make. My point is that they aren't poorly run, and provide the measures against which I base my perspective.
I'll also establish that the primary objective of the NYG ownership is to run a financially successful business, not to draft, trade, or sign players based on fan opinions, which seems to be what some folks on this site expect from them.
By the metrics of financial success no NFL team is poorly run. By those metrics alone Daniel Snyder was an amazing owner by netting $5.2B from an initial $800M investment. By financial metrics Daniel Snyder might have been the best owner in the NFL the last 20 years. Are you prepared to say that?
By those metrics, yes.
He threw 15 TDs in ‘22. Can we please stop saying he was ‘pretty damn good’ in ‘22?
Agreed, his passing 2022 was middle of the league. He had a high QBR because of rushing, but passer rating was middle of pack and anything that took yards into account, he was bottom third.
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He threw 15 TDs in ‘22. Can we please stop saying he was ‘pretty damn good’ in ‘22?
Agreed, his passing 2022 was middle of the league. He had a high QBR because of rushing, but passer rating was middle of pack and anything that took yards into account, he was bottom third.
Thank you! Somebody who understands statistics.
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In comment 16498253 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 16498238 AnnapolisMike said:
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He threw 15 TDs in ‘22. Can we please stop saying he was ‘pretty damn good’ in ‘22?
He threw 15 TDs and ran for 7 TDs. H is rushing was very very important to our success. He averaged 60 yards a game and rushed for about 700 yards. Do you know how many 3rd downs he made with his legs? A lot….keeping the drive alive and keeping the defense off the field is very critical.
It is a fact, Jones was top in QBR….I don’t care if rushing is included….its also part of his job. I’m sure Murray, Hurts, and Jackson would agree with this too.
Repeat after me SF…JONES WAS VERY GOOD IN 2022!
We need to have higher expectations for the offense.
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In comment 16498537 AnnapolisMike said:
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In comment 16498253 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 16498238 AnnapolisMike said:
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He threw 15 TDs in ‘22. Can we please stop saying he was ‘pretty damn good’ in ‘22?
He threw 15 TDs and ran for 7 TDs. H is rushing was very very important to our success. He averaged 60 yards a game and rushed for about 700 yards. Do you know how many 3rd downs he made with his legs? A lot….keeping the drive alive and keeping the defense off the field is very critical.
It is a fact, Jones was top in QBR….I don’t care if rushing is included….its also part of his job. I’m sure Murray, Hurts, and Jackson would agree with this too.
Repeat after me SF…JONES WAS VERY GOOD IN 2022!
Jones had a ton of rushing yards in large part because he’s petrified to throw the ball downfield. The rushing is fine on paper but in the grand scheme of things that isn’t sustainable and doesn’t lead to consistently putting up points. They were a bad offense in ‘22. Make no mistake about that. And they won’t be good until he can get the damn ball downfield and turn in the explosive plays that the better QBs provide. Plenty of QBs could rush for 700 yards if they absolutely refused to throw the ball downfield and just took off running most of the time. Stop overrating the rushing yards. They aren’t as fantastic as you believe
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In comment 16498537 AnnapolisMike said:
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In comment 16498253 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 16498238 AnnapolisMike said:
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He threw 15 TDs in ‘22. Can we please stop saying he was ‘pretty damn good’ in ‘22?
He threw 15 TDs and ran for 7 TDs. H is rushing was very very important to our success. He averaged 60 yards a game and rushed for about 700 yards. Do you know how many 3rd downs he made with his legs? A lot….keeping the drive alive and keeping the defense off the field is very critical.
It is a fact, Jones was top in QBR….I don’t care if rushing is included….its also part of his job. I’m sure Murray, Hurts, and Jackson would agree with this too.
Repeat after me SF…JONES WAS VERY GOOD IN 2022!
We have very different definitions of ‘very good’.
Futher, and this part I can't prove, I think Daboll wanted Jones to run if he didn't feel comfortable with the post snap coverage. Once the league caught on heading into 2023, that was significantly neutralized.