I know that most are ready to move on. We get it. That's not what this thread is about.
I just want to point out what has happened and what that means for Jones. We all know the Giants have said the right things publicly regarding Jones but their actions speak louder. Everyone knows we tried to upgrade the position. We realize the time that was spent visiting college games seeing these QBs, particularly Maye. We saw all the visits, meetings, etc. They did their homework on all the top QBs. They also supposedly offered this year's first and second round pick and at least next year's first.
With all of that said, nothing ever materialized at QB and we are where we are. We have Jones, Lock, and DeVito. I just seem to be looking at this from Jones' perspective. Imagine the highs and lows that he has experienced in the last year. He changed representation last year during negotiations. The price tag was all over the place. There were some crazy numbers thrown around that we didn't believe at first but they were true. He goes into last season as the starter that a lot of people around the NFL and even on the Giants were shocked at contract he got. From the first series of the season, our season was basically over. No one series will kill a season especially one in the beginning of the season but when we look back at it, it was the start of the fall and was immediate.
Our season was derailed. Jones got hurt multiple times. The outlook on this team and it's furutre was dire. Jones went from a $40 mil per year guy to a lame duck QB faster than almost anyone I have ever seen. The draft comes and it was all but over for him.
NE didn't pull the trigger on the proposed offer by the Giants supposedly because they couldn't secure the 4th overall pick to get JJM. They apparently didn't want to risk coming out of the draft without a QB. For all that went wrong for Jones last year, he caught a break.
Now, Jones is hanging on by a thread for a starting job and potentially his NFL career. He knows why management and probably the coaches turned on him quickly. Everyone's job is at stake. I said it before Jones' 2022 season. It is Jones' responsibility to make the Giants decision for them regarding his long term status. He was solid so I get the willingness to sign him but I did't understand the price tag. Well, we are back in the 2022 season again. Jones has one last opportunity whether that is for us or his next team. The way I look at this is a win win situation now. Yes, I understand the downside as well but as a fan I am taking this in a positive light. Jones gets one last opportunity. This doesn't mean that he will be our QB in 2025 but rather just building up his value. If he plays well, he increases his NFL worth whether that is for us or his next team. He can build up his value and maybe we can move him for something. If he plays like shit, then we have another early pick to help building to this team.
The downside here is the injury aspect and guaranteed money that hurts our cap even more. I get that. There are ways to approach the situation. Maybe Lock kicks ass and takes over. If we are no longer in playoff contention, Jones should even be a consideration. He should not play. There is risk with playing Jones but you have to balance what is best for this year with what is best long term for the Giants. As we saw this year, Daboll is gonna fight for his job as he should. Because of that, I don't think Jones sitting all year is truly an option.
So, to summarize, I expect Jones to give his best this year. If he doesn't, his career as a starter will be over and at best he'll be a backup in the NFL. I'm not saying Jones will rise to the ocassion but it actually serves us best to have this play out this way imo. I just think Jones went from the top of the world a little over 13 months ago to dead to rights to having a glimmer of hope. He has to make the most of this.
What do you see unfolding this year?
This is how I see it too.
The injury risk is real, and the season is riding on it.
I’d like to see people support our starting QB no matter who it is, but I know that will never happened, just think back to how much hate Eli got, Tom Coughlin got then they retire and it’s all love.
That really is the biggest concern to me. Whether you are in the DJFC or not, physically with DJ's history of serious injuries, we can't rely on him going forward. Personally if he starts week 1, I don't think he will make it to the end of the year. For that reason alone, we need a serious Plan B that doesn't depend on Lock or Cutlets.
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The reason they got Lock was because he is a comparable QB at 25% of the price. If Jones doesn't get it done, I bet Lock takes over and Jones is gone the minute the season ends. Then we move forward with Lock, who if this plays out this way is roughly the same performance as Jones, and we draft/sign a new QB.
This is how I see it too.
I don't think much of Lock, but I have been wondering which of them is really better, which says more about what we have gotten out of Jones than about Lock.
The new QB3 rules probably ensure DeVito remains with the team fir the duration of the year. With no rookie QB coming in, he can be kept on the roster, instead of the practice squad, where there was the possibility he would have gotten signed by another team.
No one can argue that collectively between OL, OL coaching and WR talent that he hasn't had some of the worst supporting cast in the entire NFL during his time with the Giants.
Despite that, he has at times flashed high level QB play. Even some 'wow' plays. We all have seen it.
Saying he has consistently displayed it is another matter. Is it due to lack of support or lack of talent? That finally may be figured out this year.
I pretty much agree word for word about Jones. I’m not really sure what to expect out of him all season, but I don’t think he will be terrible as long as he’s protected. His legs are going to be key but with the knee injury i am just not convinced he’s going to be a 700 yard rusher like 2022. That being said Jones isn’t necessarily a violent cutback type runner. He’s more straight line speed kind of guy so maybe he won’t lose much at all.
In order to make me feel a little bit better about things I wanted to plug-in play safety or running back in round two. I got the safety. We got the dynamic home run hitter in round one. Let’s see what happens.
I’m always a glass half full guy because what the fuck is the point. I’m trying to be objective so I don’t get blindsided, but I really don’t see a terrible football team here. The front 7 is stacked. we’ve got some talent. I’m gonna give Daboll the benefit of the doubt and figure he has his team ready to go.
That sounds like a ridiculous assertion that they were trading up for Alt. Schefter is not good at his job.
No matter how the team plays around him
If they start like 2023, he gets benched and he's done here.
The tricky outcome is a 7-10 finish with an improved offense and a pending $47M cap hit. How do they handle that. I don't know.
Their Hope = 2nd half Daniel Jones from 2022, plus'd up with more/better weapons (let's say something like 20 passing tds and 4k passing yards over 17 games).
remember 2nd half 2022 is when Barkley slumped and Slayton/Hodgins/James created an effective WR unit which increased his Y/A over 7 and increased their PPG from 20 first half to 23 second half. 1800 yards over 8 games = 225 ypg = 3825 over 17 games.
The downside = either through injury or regression he performs worse than that, in which case I think it becomes more of a competition between Jones/Lock/Devito.
Even in the down case however I think the expectation is probably that they can compete with playoff teams as they did in the 2nd half last year w/ tyrod/devito.
i think they are also obviously trying to improve the defense and the OL to lower the bar for what they need out of their QB to be a wild card team. Remember Pitt made the WC last year with nothing at QB. Sea was 9-8 with geno again. Mayfield 9-8. Cleveland 11-6 with flacco. Colts 9-8 with minshew.
And if the defense can take a step forward, more wins will come.
Will he be able to score a TD in the first half? He wasn't able to do that in his disastrous 6 games last season.
Doesn’t have to be a depressing season. The Giants are five and four and scratching and clawing and finding ways to win games while scoring 23 or so points a game maybe a little more once in a while you don’t have to be miserable about it just because the QB that ruined your dreams is the one leading the charge. Will that happen? Jones has had uphill battles and only in 2022 did he overcome and deliver true success. Can he do it again. I’m pulling for him. As Rob said Jones playing well is most definitely in the Giants best interest.
What we should expect is what BW listed above as the excuses are all gone. What I personally expect is a below average passer who will look fantastic every 3rd or 4th game, and below average in between.
If they start like 2023, he gets benched and he's done here.
The tricky outcome is a 7-10 finish with an improved offense and a pending $47M cap hit. How do they handle that. I don't know.
I have no idea how they could bring back Jones after a 7 win season but I wouldn’t doubt it.
I’m also not convinced they will have a quick hook with early in the season. He is their guy, sink or swim.
I pretty much agree word for word about Jones. I’m not really sure what to expect out of him all season, but I don’t think he will be terrible as long as he’s protected. His legs are going to be key but with the knee injury i am just not convinced he’s going to be a 700 yard rusher like 2022. That being said Jones isn’t necessarily a violent cutback type runner. He’s more straight line speed kind of guy so maybe he won’t lose much at all.
In order to make me feel a little bit better about things I wanted to plug-in play safety or running back in round two. I got the safety. We got the dynamic home run hitter in round one. Let’s see what happens.
I’m always a glass half full guy because what the fuck is the point. I’m trying to be objective so I don’t get blindsided, but I really don’t see a terrible football team here. The front 7 is stacked. we’ve got some talent. I’m gonna give Daboll the benefit of the doubt and figure he has his team ready to go.
3 keys, in my opinion:
1) Bellinger - I expect building on a decent rookie year now that Waller is gone and he should be TE1 with more consistent playing time and role
2) RB - This group doesn't need to replace Barkley and certainly no single player will. But, with an improved OL, if this group is decent and can provide, collectively, numbers close to Barkley's, this offense can hum.
3) DL - STOP the run
I expect at least one of Lawrence, KT, or Burns to have a monster year. You can't double any of them now. Each week one of them should be a monster.
What you never know with Jones is how many games you will get out of him. It is almost a foregone conclusion it won't be 17. 12? 10?
Much of his production is going to be determined by two factors - 1) how many games can he suit up for, and 2)just how explosive will Nabers be in his rookie year?
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Gun to my head I think we’re looking for a new quarterback next season. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has a solid year either. can’t express enough how important the o-line is. I honestly believe that Jones would be OK if the line is OK. Call me crazy I don’t really give a shit.
I think he will be OK also. But, in order to stick, he needs to be much better than OK, in my opinion.
Yea by OK I mean 2022 type stuff.
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In comment 16499217 djm said:
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Gun to my head I think we’re looking for a new quarterback next season. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has a solid year either. can’t express enough how important the o-line is. I honestly believe that Jones would be OK if the line is OK. Call me crazy I don’t really give a shit.
I think he will be OK also. But, in order to stick, he needs to be much better than OK, in my opinion.
Yea by OK I mean 2022 type stuff.
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In comment 16499221 Matt M. said:
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In comment 16499217 djm said:
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Gun to my head I think we’re looking for a new quarterback next season. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has a solid year either. can’t express enough how important the o-line is. I honestly believe that Jones would be OK if the line is OK. Call me crazy I don’t really give a shit.
I think he will be OK also. But, in order to stick, he needs to be much better than OK, in my opinion.
Yea by OK I mean 2022 type stuff.
Yeah, and 2022 is just OK; like middle of the pack mediocre OK. He needs to be better than that by as lot.
if he wants to be the unquestioned NYG starter in 2025 he does.
to have trade value on what will essentially be 2 years 76m left with none guaranteed, he probably only needs to recreate 2022.
I know they are all pros so its just business goes on but there is a human element here and it HAS to have some awkwardness especially for jones knowing they are/were trying to replace him.
In the coming weeks, we will hear about how Dan Jones is attacking rehab, and how he's such a hard worker! What a great guy!
Then when training camp starts we will here reports about how buff Dan Jones looks and how is arm got stronger! you know, just like last year.
Then when the actual games start, day 1 against Cowboys (probably), he stinks like he always does and gets shut out. He plays a couple more games, maybe gets one won against a bad team, and then gets hurt like he always does, probably by running head first into a LB after a 3 yard gain, reinjuring his neck. In come the backups
We win a couple games with Lock or Cutlets.. finishing 4-12. Just outside to not be able to draft the only good Qb coming out.
I know they are all pros so its just business goes on but there is a human element here and it HAS to have some awkwardness especially for jones knowing they are/were trying to replace him.
Why do you think Adam Schefter just floated that the Giants were trying to trade up with the Patriots for Joe Alt?
"Daniel, we were worried that Alt and Nabers would go 4 & 5 and we needed to get you one of them. We all hated Drake Maye. Hated him. He wasn't on our board at all."
I know they are all pros so its just business goes on but there is a human element here and it HAS to have some awkwardness especially for jones knowing they are/were trying to replace him.
I don't see "awkwardness" entering into the equation.
Yes, the Giants were trying to upgrade the QB position, but teams are always trying to replace players with better and cheaper options.
Also, the Giants apparently had just one QB in mind, as they not only passed on JJ, Penix and Nix, but they didn't even take a flyer on another QB prospect in the draft.
Our big-eyed QB has to look at this as a challenge. The team tried to replace him, but it's still his job. Just play better and he can keep it.
No, we don't know that. What we know is that Schoen and Daboll have said unequivocally since they've been here is that Jones is their guy. Through 3 drafts they have not drafted a QB, any QB. During that time they flirted with Russell, when Jones' health was less certain, but did not promise him the starting job.
So what we know is that a future hall of fame QB was interested in the Giants, but they would not offer him the starting job. McCarthy fell into their lap and they said "No Thanks". We're supposed to believe that if they had the chance they would have signed Maye and flushed $40 million down the toilet ? I don't think so.
Stats will follow if Jones is efficient, not spectacular, efficient. I know the bar is low for a highly paid pro entering year 6.
What I don't want to see is Nabers being frustrated by Jones inability to lead him, not into contact, on basic crossing patterns. He and every receiver needs to make a catch in stride with the ability to create and protect themselves.
Daniel Jones (2024) close to Dave Brown (1997)
Drew Lock (2024) close to Danny Kanell (1997)
Brown started about half the games in 1997, then got hurt against Dallas and lost his starting job never to return. Kanell started around 20 games in 1997 & 1998, won half of them and was a decent bridge to Collins. I would not be shocked if something similar happened.
That said, I am more concerned by what he doesn't do than what he does. It seems like he misses opportunities for big plays by quickly "taking what's there"(possibly drilled into him by Garrett). I think he needs to improve his anticpation of when people are going to be open downfield as you often need to throw it before they are actually open. I think it is possible that this can be improved. It clearly annoyed Dabol.
It was also annoying that the times he did go deep seemed to be to throw 50/50 balls on 3rd and short rather than just convert te first down.
I am rooting for him and we will see what happens. Its on him.
Stats will follow if Jones is efficient, not spectacular, efficient. I know the bar is low for a highly paid pro entering year 6.
What I don't want to see is Nabers being frustrated by Jones inability to lead him, not into contact, on basic crossing patterns. He and every receiver needs to make a catch in stride with the ability to create and protect themselves.
In that case we'll see Lock sooner than later.
I'm fine with that.
One of the more interesting analyses of the Nabers pick was from none other than Bill Belichik who wisely combats the others with "you don't need to wait long for Nabers to get open. You don't need a lot of protection with him".
Check the 2:20 mark
Belichik on Nabers - ( New Window )
And people will clamor for year 7.
It won't end, this dreary dumpster fire of an era of Giants football.
And people will clamor for year 7.
It won't end, this dreary dumpster fire of an era of Giants football.
I can't imagine that'll be the case. I think Jones would need to have an undeniably really good year for people to have any faith in him going forward. His 2022 season won't cut it again.
The increased aggressiveness, along with the better WR and OL, should produce a more dangerous offense that is able to hit some bigtime chunk plays and long TDs. The downside is that DJ is going to throw more INTs and probably take a few unadvised sack fumbles when he doesn't see the pass rush properly. Hopefully the OL play will be improved enough that the overall amount of sacks goes down anyway.
To be clear, I'm not predicting a top offense or anything. It just should look closer to league average and resemble a functional NFL offense. It's a low bar, but DJ is a competent game manager from what I've seen and will do as Daboll tells him.
Going into another season with him as our starting QB and no long term options on the roster pours cold water on everything else they’ve done.
If he doesn't he will see the bench early.
I’m rooting for him to succeed (not necessarily betting on it) as that would be in the best interests of the Giants going forward.
Imagine NOT having to spend a King’s Ransom on a QB in 2025 and being able to get BPA again and fill more roster holes.
That’s what you guys are CLEARLY saying. If they meant he had to give up 6 top draft picks, or taking a QB they didn’t believe in just to dump Jones, so be it!
Thank god, our GM has more common sense and better vision than you guys.
Oh and I don’t think for a minute Schoen is happy about having Jones playing this year. That injury guarantee HAS to be sticking in his craw.
For Jones, 8 wins and wild card contender should be a minimum. If Jones falters, Lock should be crowned 2024 starting QB and get paid to be the bridge QB for 2025 and beyond (as long as it takes to find a franchise QB).
However, I would also not write off Lock as a late bloomer. Denver was a mess when he was there, and he never got a chance in Seattle with Geno’s career resurgence. Lock did start two games last year and did pretty well against tough teams. He has a big arm. If the team and myself and plenty of others are wrong about DJ, don’t sell Lock short. There’s some reason for optimism there.
I like the QB room in NY going into the season.
Daniel Jones (2024) close to Dave Brown (1997)
Drew Lock (2024) close to Danny Kanell (1997)
Brown started about half the games in 1997, then got hurt against Dallas and lost his starting job never to return. Kanell started around 20 games in 1997 & 1998, won half of them and was a decent bridge to Collins. I would not be shocked if something similar happened.
I could live with this if it played out this way and spelled the end of the Jones era en route to a franchise QB. But my strong preference is to cut or trade Jones and not risk any 2025 cap.