I like the way we are building up our roster, the roster is indeed trending in the right direction. Nevertheless, we have to be realistic about Daniel Jones forced to play against defenses that don't revolve around stopping Saquon. DJ has had this benefit his entire career and the results have been rough without Saquon. Opposing defenses are not going to have to focus on stopping Singletary and Co. In fact, Singletary has always benefited from solid offensive lines and good quarterbacks.
Here is DJ's stats without Saquon in past years:
2023: 3 games, 460 yards passing on 86 attempts 5.3ypa with 0 tds and 3 ints
2022: DJ's best year with 15 passing touchdowns came in a great year for Saquon in which Saquon missed no games.
2021: 6 games, 1042 yards passing on 187 attempts 5.57ypa with 5 tds and 6 ints
2020: 12 games, 2663yds on 407 attempts 6.5ypa, 9 tds 8ints
This is something to consider when imagining how we will do this year, even though our roster is trending in the right direction. We have to be realistic about the numbers. Even in games when Saquon couldn't do anything, the defenses completely revolved around stopping him. That makes it much easier for a QB, and DJ still didn't do very well with Saquon. Nevertheless, the numbers when facing defenses that didn't have to focus on stopping Saquon are very rough.
These are his numbers without Barkley.
These numbers show you how he's done when opposing defenses aren't solely focused on Barkley. I don't see the change being a good one. They can rush the passer more, close passing lanes more efficiently, and unless DJ can successfully attack downfield which isn't his strong suit, then this is a predictable outcome.
Absolutely, it will be interesting. I see opposing defenses focused on closing passing lanes on the short to intermediate stuff (which would also mitigate running lanes) while rushing the passer much more. It will all come down to Jones attacking defenses doenfield in that scenario.
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Jones had 24 TD passes with Barkley...
These are his numbers without Barkley.
Well, you mentioned 2022
I think his departure will actually help the offense be more balanced and less predictable than it has been - but I also think it’ll take about five weeks for it to click, with poor results in September and October.
If we can steal a couple of wins somehow (defense and specials) in the first quarter of the season, we might okay the rest of the way.
This will definitely be interesting to see how DJ responds.
I think his departure will actually help the offense be more balanced and less predictable than it has been - but I also think it’ll take about five weeks for it to click, with poor results in September and October.
If we can steal a couple of wins somehow (defense and specials) in the first quarter of the season, we might okay the rest of the way.
You don't think the coaches tried their best to scheme up success without Saquon? I don't agree. Without Saquon, opposing defenses knew DJ wouldn't punish them for blitzing and shutting down the short to intermediate passing lanes. It's all on DJ to punish the defenses by attacking downfield. That's what it will come down to. If he can do that, then defenses will have to lay off on pressuring the QB and some of the underneath stuff will open up. If he fails to attack them deep, they will have constant pressure and shut down the quick throws.
2) Jones didn't elevate his play when SB was out of the lineup
2) Jones didn't elevate his play when SB was out of the lineup
The numbers say he not only didn't elevate his play, but he struggled mightily. It will all come down to DJ attacking defenses downfield. If he can't, then they can very easily shut down Nabers, Wandale, Hyatt and Singletary. It's not hard to focus on pressuring the QB and stopping everything underneath if the QB doesn't relieve himself of the pressure and open things up with downfield throws. DJ hasn't been able to do this for years, now defenses will be able to focus on pressuring the passer more than ever. So, even with better o line play we could see the same amount of pressure in the pocket on DJ.
I don't want to hear any more excuses. He has his #1 WR, he has a reconfigured OL coached by a very respected veteran. If Jones can't excel, I'm not talking about repeating his wildly overrated 2022 season, then it's on him.
I don't want to hear any more excuses. He has his #1 WR, he has a reconfigured OL coached by a very respected veteran. If Jones can't excel, I'm not talking about repeating his wildly overrated 2022 season, then it's on him.
It will all come down to making plays downfield, or else Nabers and the ol won't matter because they'll just pressure DJ and sit on the short stuff. I think its really simple. DJ will fail terribly if he can't stretch the field and open things up and alleviate himself of constantly being pressured. The whole offense will come down to that. I don't think Lock will get a fair shot to start unless DJ is injured. He's being paid too much to sit on the bench when healthy.
2019:
Shepard, Engram, Tate, Bennie Fowler, Slayton, Kaden Smith, Cody Latimer
2020:
Shepard, Engram, Slayton, CJ Board, Tate, K Smith, Austin Mack, Toilolo
2021:
Toney, Shepard, John Ross, Board, Golladay, Kyle Rudolph, K Smith, Myrick, Sills
2022:
James, Bellinger, Wan’Dale Robinson, Toney, Golladay, Cager, Sills, Marcus Johnson, Nick Vannett, Myrarick, Hodgins
2023:
Hyatt, Robinson, Waller, Bellinger, Campbell, Hodgins
Which one of these guys was he holding back and defenses were scared of?
2019:
Shepard, Engram, Tate, Bennie Fowler, Slayton, Kaden Smith, Cody Latimer
2020:
Shepard, Engram, Slayton, CJ Board, Tate, K Smith, Austin Mack, Toilolo
2021:
Toney, Shepard, John Ross, Board, Golladay, Kyle Rudolph, K Smith, Myrick, Sills
2022:
James, Bellinger, Wan’Dale Robinson, Toney, Golladay, Cager, Sills, Marcus Johnson, Nick Vannett, Myrarick, Hodgins
2023:
Hyatt, Robinson, Waller, Bellinger, Campbell, Hodgins
Which one of these guys was he holding back and defenses were scared of?
How did Mulleins do for the Vikings? Once again if DJ can't make throws downfield, Nabers won't matter. It's really easy for defenses to shut down the short stuff and pressure a QB whom can't attack downfield. The weapons won't matter and even if the OL is much better that won't matter either because teams can blitz without worrying about Saquon while having low zones to shut down the short stuff.
The success of the offense will completely rely on DJ's ability to attack downfield.
NYG running backs that were better than Barkley:
Brandon Jacobs
Rodney Hampton
Ahmad Bradshaw
Tiki Barber
Saquon Barkley was literally another David Wilson. One big run per game. The rest was 2 yds per carry. David Wilson might’ve been better actually.
2019:
Shepard, Engram, Tate, Bennie Fowler, Slayton, Kaden Smith, Cody Latimer
2020:
Shepard, Engram, Slayton, CJ Board, Tate, K Smith, Austin Mack, Toilolo
2021:
Toney, Shepard, John Ross, Board, Golladay, Kyle Rudolph, K Smith, Myrick, Sills
2022:
James, Bellinger, Wan’Dale Robinson, Toney, Golladay, Cager, Sills, Marcus Johnson, Nick Vannett, Myrarick, Hodgins
2023:
Hyatt, Robinson, Waller, Bellinger, Campbell, Hodgins
Which one of these guys was he holding back and defenses were scared of?
That is an amazing list of absolute mediocrity not to mention a good number of them were injured. Couple that with the worst OL in the league. It’s almost hard to believe.
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Pass Catcher that has started games with Jones Career.
2019:
Shepard, Engram, Tate, Bennie Fowler, Slayton, Kaden Smith, Cody Latimer
2020:
Shepard, Engram, Slayton, CJ Board, Tate, K Smith, Austin Mack, Toilolo
2021:
Toney, Shepard, John Ross, Board, Golladay, Kyle Rudolph, K Smith, Myrick, Sills
2022:
James, Bellinger, Wan’Dale Robinson, Toney, Golladay, Cager, Sills, Marcus Johnson, Nick Vannett, Myrarick, Hodgins
2023:
Hyatt, Robinson, Waller, Bellinger, Campbell, Hodgins
Which one of these guys was he holding back and defenses were scared of?
How did Mulleins do for the Vikings? Once again if DJ can't make throws downfield, Nabers won't matter. It's really easy for defenses to shut down the short stuff and pressure a QB whom can't attack downfield. The weapons won't matter and even if the OL is much better that won't matter either because teams can blitz without worrying about Saquon while having low zones to shut down the short stuff.
The success of the offense will completely rely on DJ's ability to attack downfield.
Which one of these guys is he supposed to light it up with? Let's forget that the line can't protect long enough to take many shots down field? There is a lot of garbage on that list of players.
NYG running backs that were better than Barkley:
Brandon Jacobs
Rodney Hampton
Ahmad Bradshaw
Tiki Barber
Saquon Barkley was literally another David Wilson. One big run per game. The rest was 2 yds per carry. David Wilson might’ve been better actually.
Thats not the point and I disagree that he wasn't great. Defenses completely revolved around stopping him, of course his numbers weren't great if you discount his big plays. Nevertheless, defenses couldn't blitz as much or focus on the pass at all when their entire gamelan was about stopping Saquon. That is the point, can DJ make throws downfield? If he can't, then it will be really easy to stop Nabers and co.
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Pass Catcher that has started games with Jones Career.
2019:
Shepard, Engram, Tate, Bennie Fowler, Slayton, Kaden Smith, Cody Latimer
2020:
Shepard, Engram, Slayton, CJ Board, Tate, K Smith, Austin Mack, Toilolo
2021:
Toney, Shepard, John Ross, Board, Golladay, Kyle Rudolph, K Smith, Myrick, Sills
2022:
James, Bellinger, Wan’Dale Robinson, Toney, Golladay, Cager, Sills, Marcus Johnson, Nick Vannett, Myrarick, Hodgins
2023:
Hyatt, Robinson, Waller, Bellinger, Campbell, Hodgins
Which one of these guys was he holding back and defenses were scared of?
That is an amazing list of absolute mediocrity not to mention a good number of them were injured. Couple that with the worst OL in the league. It’s almost hard to believe.
It's why I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. He may be mentally screwed up at this point. He may be too injured. But the blame the guy gets with what he has had to work with is a joke.
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In comment 16499341 Giantsbigblue said:
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Pass Catcher that has started games with Jones Career.
2019:
Shepard, Engram, Tate, Bennie Fowler, Slayton, Kaden Smith, Cody Latimer
2020:
Shepard, Engram, Slayton, CJ Board, Tate, K Smith, Austin Mack, Toilolo
2021:
Toney, Shepard, John Ross, Board, Golladay, Kyle Rudolph, K Smith, Myrick, Sills
2022:
James, Bellinger, Wan’Dale Robinson, Toney, Golladay, Cager, Sills, Marcus Johnson, Nick Vannett, Myrarick, Hodgins
2023:
Hyatt, Robinson, Waller, Bellinger, Campbell, Hodgins
Which one of these guys was he holding back and defenses were scared of?
How did Mulleins do for the Vikings? Once again if DJ can't make throws downfield, Nabers won't matter. It's really easy for defenses to shut down the short stuff and pressure a QB whom can't attack downfield. The weapons won't matter and even if the OL is much better that won't matter either because teams can blitz without worrying about Saquon while having low zones to shut down the short stuff.
The success of the offense will completely rely on DJ's ability to attack downfield.
Which one of these guys is he supposed to light it up with? Let's forget that the line can't protect long enough to take many shots down field? There is a lot of garbage on that list of players.
I'm not even saying he needs to light it up, more than .67 tds per game with more interceptions per game than touchdowns would be mediocre at best. According to analytics, our receivers got separation and there were throws open downfield. Plenty of good QBs do just fine with mediocre skill position players. DJ just has to make throws downfield, that's it.
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1) The Giants relied on SB to carry the offense
2) Jones didn't elevate his play when SB was out of the lineup
The numbers say he not only didn't elevate his play, but he struggled mightily. It will all come down to DJ attacking defenses downfield. If he can't, then they can very easily shut down Nabers, Wandale, Hyatt and Singletary. It's not hard to focus on pressuring the QB and stopping everything underneath if the QB doesn't relieve himself of the pressure and open things up with downfield throws. DJ hasn't been able to do this for years, now defenses will be able to focus on pressuring the passer more than ever. So, even with better o line play we could see the same amount of pressure in the pocket on DJ.
Agreed. Im not as optimistic as others are.
Nabers is a great addition to WR but it does very little if the QB cannot get him the ball
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In comment 16499300 jestersdead said:
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1) The Giants relied on SB to carry the offense
2) Jones didn't elevate his play when SB was out of the lineup
The numbers say he not only didn't elevate his play, but he struggled mightily. It will all come down to DJ attacking defenses downfield. If he can't, then they can very easily shut down Nabers, Wandale, Hyatt and Singletary. It's not hard to focus on pressuring the QB and stopping everything underneath if the QB doesn't relieve himself of the pressure and open things up with downfield throws. DJ hasn't been able to do this for years, now defenses will be able to focus on pressuring the passer more than ever. So, even with better o line play we could see the same amount of pressure in the pocket on DJ.
Agreed. Im not as optimistic as others are.
Nabers is a great addition to WR but it does very little if the QB cannot get him the ball
He just has to make some throws downfield or it will be really easy for defenses to tee off on him while stopping quick throws. That's what the entire season will come down to.
Our passing game for the last several years has been dreadful, and it doesn't matter if opposing Defenses bring pressure or play coverage. Daniel Jones isn't beating them with his arm/head.
How many defensive players in the past year or so have publicly come out and said how they easily read DJ in the passing game?
That can easily be stopped if opposing defenses just camp down on the short throws in zone. Nabers success will be predicated upon DJ opening things up with downfield throws.
Our passing game for the last several years has been dreadful, and it doesn't matter if opposing Defenses bring pressure or play coverage. Daniel Jones isn't beating them with his arm/head.
How many defensive players in the past year or so have publicly come out and said how they easily read DJ in the passing game?
Shallow zone coverage while overloading the offensive line would stop both the run and short pass game. If DJ can hit throws downfield, then everything opens up including the run game. That's what it all will come down to, DJ has struggled mightily with this since his rookie year. Nabers snd the offensive line really won't matter much if DJ can't attack downfield it will be incredibly simple for defenses to shut down our offense.
2019:
Shepard, Engram, Tate, Bennie Fowler, Slayton, Kaden Smith, Cody Latimer
2020:
Shepard, Engram, Slayton, CJ Board, Tate, K Smith, Austin Mack, Toilolo
2021:
Toney, Shepard, John Ross, Board, Golladay, Kyle Rudolph, K Smith, Myrick, Sills
2022:
James, Bellinger, Wan’Dale Robinson, Toney, Golladay, Cager, Sills, Marcus Johnson, Nick Vannett, Myrarick, Hodgins
2023:
Hyatt, Robinson, Waller, Bellinger, Campbell, Hodgins
Which one of these guys was he holding back and defenses were scared of?
I actually feel bad for Shurmur, Judge and McAdoo
So would I, the results will be the same if DJ can't attack downfield though. I'm not saying he can't do that, but the entire offense will depend on him doing that. Otherwise, it will be extremely easy for defenses to stop us.
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Jones had 24 TD passes with Barkley...
These are his numbers without Barkley.
Barkley missed three games in 2019, Jones had 3 TDs and 6 INTs. One win and two losses. Half his INTs were in those 3 games.
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10 out of 10 times. It’s not even close honestly.
So would I, the results will be the same if DJ can't attack downfield though. I'm not saying he can't do that, but the entire offense will depend on him doing that. Otherwise, it will be extremely easy for defenses to stop us.
I'm a broken record. To couple the point above on complete lack of playmakers at WR, the OL has been horrendous which effected Barkley as much as DJ. How many times against a good front 7 did we watch Barkley get hit as soon as he got the ball, and behind the LoS? Many of his good runs were a herculean effort avoiding 1st and 2nd tacklers that were on top of him as soon as he got the ball. I'm disgusted to see what Barkley looks like on that Philly offense (if they continue to have strong blocking without Kelce)
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In comment 16499232 JCassmen said:
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Jones had 24 TD passes with Barkley...
These are his numbers without Barkley.
Barkley missed three games in 2019, Jones had 3 TDs and 6 INTs. One win and two losses. Half his INTs were in those 3 games.
Good point.
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Saquon is there or not. Simply because putting the onus on the NYG passing game to convert third downs or come back from second half deficits is a very simple winning strategy for the opposition. I would imagine Defensive Coordinators like simple winning strategies.
Our passing game for the last several years has been dreadful, and it doesn't matter if opposing Defenses bring pressure or play coverage. Daniel Jones isn't beating them with his arm/head.
How many defensive players in the past year or so have publicly come out and said how they easily read DJ in the passing game?
Shallow zone coverage while overloading the offensive line would stop both the run and short pass game. If DJ can hit throws downfield, then everything opens up including the run game. That's what it all will come down to, DJ has struggled mightily with this since his rookie year. Nabers snd the offensive line really won't matter much if DJ can't attack downfield it will be incredibly simple for defenses to shut down our offense.
Any type of Defense works against DJ and this Offensive Line, including just simple Base. Just look at the first half scoring from our Offense in the last several years...has to be at the very bottom of the league.
Yeah, Defenses were really worried about Saquon. Ha Ha.
That's a good point. Saquon will be amazing when he's healthy with a solid offensive line and a passing game that makes throws downfield. They won't run him to death like we did either, which should help a lot with injuries and production.
Bingo. Isaiah Hodgins was their best receiver. Now he's #5 or 6 on the depth chart.
2019:
Shepard, Engram, Tate, Bennie Fowler, Slayton, Kaden Smith, Cody Latimer
2020:
Shepard, Engram, Slayton, CJ Board, Tate, K Smith, Austin Mack, Toilolo
2021:
Toney, Shepard, John Ross, Board, Golladay, Kyle Rudolph, K Smith, Myrick, Sills
2022:
James, Bellinger, Wan’Dale Robinson, Toney, Golladay, Cager, Sills, Marcus Johnson, Nick Vannett, Myrarick, Hodgins
2023:
Hyatt, Robinson, Waller, Bellinger, Campbell, Hodgins
Which one of these guys was he holding back and defenses were scared of?
Wow that is gross to look at on paper
All of them
I don’t expect much from Jones but I do believe there’s room for improvement. Since he’s now on the team and will be our starting QB if healthy, might as well get used to talking about how they can make him better.
For another, no single player on our roster is replacing Barkley, nor should that be the goal. However, 2 or 3 guys may approximate Barkley's production, especially if our passing game is improved.
Over reliance on Barkley against defense stacked to stop him may be a good thing to get away from.
Hyatt
With: 5 targets 4 catches 99 yards 0 td
W/O: 35 targets 18 catches 274 yards 0 td
Waller
With: 34 targets 23 catches 219 yards 0 td
W/O: 40 targets 29 catches 340 yards 1 td
Bellinger:
With: 4 targets 4 catches 22 yards 0 td
W/O: 24 targets 21 catches 233 yards 0 td
Robinson:
With: 17 targets 14 catches 79 yards 0 td
W/O: 61 targets 46 catches 446 yards 1 td
Slayton:
With: 24 targets 13 catches 167 yards 0 td
W/O: 55 targets 37 catches 603 yards 4 td
Hodgins isn't here but what the hell
With: 14 targets 10 catches 107 yards 1 td
W/O: 19 targets 11 catches 123 yards 2 td
Barkley has not been the explosive back he was during his rookie season. Still an effective back, yes, but so are many others. He also never was good at short yardage for a guy with tree trunk quads! Figure that one out?! I don’t believe Barkley would make a difference this year.
Different position, sure... but arguably it's more important to have the #1 WR in this era of the NFL.
Therefore, I'm not overly worried about how losing Saquon with affect Jones... long story short, this is probably the best O-line DJ has ever been behind and the best collection of weapons surrounding him...
... it's now or never, regardless of Saquon.
Barkley has not been the explosive back he was during his rookie season. Still an effective back, yes, but so are many others. He also never was good at short yardage for a guy with tree trunk quads! Figure that one out?! I don’t believe Barkley would make a difference this year.