schoen's comment that nabers "was the highest WR left when we picked" led me to believe they had MHJ higher, as most probably did.
but had Nabers and MHJ gone i could have seen them taking Alt. he checks every box and may be safest prospect in draft at a huge position of need. it is not hard to envision him being the next Lane Johnson. Harbough obviously had a blue chip grade on him and Harbough is excellent with OL.
That they wanted to trade up for Alt after saying for months prior they wanted to trade up for MHJ, JJM, Maye or Williams? That’s what we’re doing meow?
Vacchiano, who some think is an NYG mouthpiece, was on one of the post-draft shows today and he said the writing is on the wall with Daniel Jones being gone. He said they tried to trade up with the Pats, with a package that included next year's #1 AND additional picks.
He said the organization is walking a delicate tightrope right now because everyone knows Jones is done, but they obviously don't want to say it out loud.
If the Giants wanted Alt at 3, they wouod have given the same offer to Arizona and LAC. The Giants backed off once Maye was chosen. Anyone who believes thos nonsense needs to think.
If the Giants wanted Alt at 3, they wouod have given the same offer to Arizona and LAC. The Giants backed off once Maye was chosen. Anyone who believes thos nonsense needs to think.
He may have been in some of the contingency plans depending on how things broke ahead of them or if they moved around a bit. But Schefty seems like he is extrapolating his info incorrectly.
I mentioned it last week, it will be interesting to see if Jones and/or his reps have something to say in the aftermath and the realization the Giants tried to replace him.
I think it’s over exposure. The networks love him and want him out there saying something all the time now. The more you talk the more a chance you say something stupid. He is doing a lot of talking recently.
but i do buy that they may have taken Alt over Odunze. There have been a few threads wondering what would have happened if Harbough had taken Nabers at #5.
we know Harbough thought Alt was better than Nabers as a RT and despite a more extreme WR need, and we know the rest of the league let Odunze slide to #9.
i can see a case for either of them having been the pick at #6 if nabers wasnt there.
I mentioned it last week, it will be interesting to see if Jones and/or his reps have something to say in the aftermath and the realization the Giants tried to replace him.
The Giants should tell them to F off if they’re so hurt by them trying to upgrade the position.
I mentioned it last week, it will be interesting to see if Jones and/or his reps have something to say in the aftermath and the realization the Giants tried to replace him.
i posted this in the "Daniel Jones" thread below but man there has to be some tension/awkwardness in the building now. Like jones has to go to work and try to win KNOWING the staff wants to replace him. has to be awkward for coaches too having to coach a guy they know they want to replace.
Vacchiano, who some think is an NYG mouthpiece, was on one of the post-draft shows today and he said the writing is on the wall with Daniel Jones being gone. He said they tried to trade up with the Pats, with a package that included next year's #1 AND additional picks.
He said the organization is walking a delicate tightrope right now because everyone knows Jones is done, but they obviously don't want to say it out loud.
Something must not be going right with his rehab/or they feel like something mentally has happened to Jones then?
Maybe this is damage control so Jones doesn’t feel insulted??
Maybe by some miracle he plays decent early on and they can trade him? Where if they make it obvious they wanted to dump him his value would be further diminished? I mean league people know they were trying to trade him if we know.
Maybe this is damage control so Jones doesn’t feel insulted??
Maybe by some miracle he plays decent early on and they can trade him? Where if they make it obvious they wanted to dump him his value would be further diminished? I mean league people know they were trying to trade him if we know.
Not trade in that last sentence, I meant to say trade up and replace him.
Vacchiano, who some think is an NYG mouthpiece, was on one of the post-draft shows today and he said the writing is on the wall with Daniel Jones being gone. He said they tried to trade up with the Pats, with a package that included next year's #1 AND additional picks.
He said the organization is walking a delicate tightrope right now because everyone knows Jones is done, but they obviously don't want to say it out loud.
Something must not be going right with his rehab/or they feel like something mentally has happened to Jones then?
What? No, they see how he plays. The know he is coming off serious injuries.
Have you not been reading the site for the past six months?
Vacchiano, who some think is an NYG mouthpiece, was on one of the post-draft shows today and he said the writing is on the wall with Daniel Jones being gone. He said they tried to trade up with the Pats, with a package that included next year's #1 AND additional picks.
He said the organization is walking a delicate tightrope right now because everyone knows Jones is done, but they obviously don't want to say it out loud.
Eric, this is the organizational failure. You can't act it, hint at it, insinuate it and then dance around it as if it's not real.
They can't be halfway done with Jones! If it's over, it's over, regardless of whether or not they were able to draft a guy they liked.
This both sides of the fence stuff is annoying and not good for the business of football.
People really think the Patriots would refuse 6, 47, and a 1st for JOE ALT? It's either the Giants trying to squash the Maye rumors, or Schefter really doesn't have a clue as to what's happening in the NYG org
Vacchiano, who some think is an NYG mouthpiece, was on one of the post-draft shows today and he said the writing is on the wall with Daniel Jones being gone. He said they tried to trade up with the Pats, with a package that included next year's #1 AND additional picks.
He said the organization is walking a delicate tightrope right now because everyone knows Jones is done, but they obviously don't want to say it out loud.
Something must not be going right with his rehab/or they feel like something mentally has happened to Jones then?
What? No, they see how he plays. The know he is coming off serious injuries.
Have you not been reading the site for the past six months?
I certainly have Eric, but there is no way they're going to give him the contract that they did and then change their mind based solely on the 6 games he played last year with easily the worst o-line in football; especially after he led the team to a playoff win the year before with a suspect o-line and overall roster. Yes the injuries mean something...but I'm implying, maybe something behind the scenes is going on with Jones? Has he completely lost confidence? Is rehab not going well? Something that we don't know about that they're also not going to discuss with the media. Otherwise why would "everyone in the organization, now all of the sudden say he's "done." That just seems far fetched to me.
Vacchiano, who some think is an NYG mouthpiece, was on one of the post-draft shows today and he said the writing is on the wall with Daniel Jones being gone. He said they tried to trade up with the Pats, with a package that included next year's #1 AND additional picks.
He said the organization is walking a delicate tightrope right now because everyone knows Jones is done, but they obviously don't want to say it out loud.
Eric, this is the organizational failure. You can't act it, hint at it, insinuate it and then dance around it as if it's not real.
They can't be halfway done with Jones! If it's over, it's over, regardless of whether or not they were able to draft a guy they liked.
This both sides of the fence stuff is annoying and not good for the business of football.
They haven't acted it, hinted at it, or insinuated it. (It's one of the reasons why the dunderheads are so upset because they won't say it).
But their actions show they are done with him. You can't hide that.
So you are asking the impossible, unless you want to stick with Jones for three more years so the organization doesn't send out a bad message.
Vacchiano, who some think is an NYG mouthpiece, was on one of the post-draft shows today and he said the writing is on the wall with Daniel Jones being gone. He said they tried to trade up with the Pats, with a package that included next year's #1 AND additional picks.
He said the organization is walking a delicate tightrope right now because everyone knows Jones is done, but they obviously don't want to say it out loud.
This makes sense. the other stuff is all bullshit.
Vacchiano, who some think is an NYG mouthpiece, was on one of the post-draft shows today and he said the writing is on the wall with Daniel Jones being gone. He said they tried to trade up with the Pats, with a package that included next year's #1 AND additional picks.
He said the organization is walking a delicate tightrope right now because everyone knows Jones is done, but they obviously don't want to say it out loud.
Eric, this is the organizational failure. You can't act it, hint at it, insinuate it and then dance around it as if it's not real.
They can't be halfway done with Jones! If it's over, it's over, regardless of whether or not they were able to draft a guy they liked.
This both sides of the fence stuff is annoying and not good for the business of football.
They haven't acted it, hinted at it, or insinuated it. (It's one of the reasons why the dunderheads are so upset because they won't say it).
But their actions show they are done with him. You can't hide that.
So you are asking the impossible, unless you want to stick with Jones for three more years so the organization doesn't send out a bad message.
I dunno if we are getting caught up on semantics but I'm saying they've acted like it and you are saying no they haven't but their actions show it. I think we're saying the same thing.
This whole thing boils down to this. Schoen and Daboll are "saying" things that lead you to believe Jones is still the guy. Yet, every other data point (i.e. heavily scouting this draft class, trying to trade up for Maye, even Daboll's body language towards Jones going back to last season) points in the opposite direction.
I'm simply saying this isn't great for the team, fans, etc.
I mentioned it last week, it will be interesting to see if Jones and/or his reps have something to say in the aftermath and the realization the Giants tried to replace him.
well boohoo for him, because it's nothing compared to the humiliation Simms went through with Scott "Olive Oyl" Brunner being named to start over him after coming back from several major injuries. This stuff is just words. And if he wants it to stop just play well and win games.
Well not to belabor the point but this is why I would have made sure I drafted one of these quarterbacks. Even if not one of the top 6. However, with that not having been done, I'd still be exploring my options. I understand NYG wants status quo here but that's part of their mistake in my opinion. Status quo can't be put back in the bag now.
Well not to belabor the point but this is why I would have made sure I drafted one of these quarterbacks. Even if not one of the top 6. However, with that not having been done, I'd still be exploring my options. I understand NYG wants status quo here but that's part of their mistake in my opinion. Status quo can't be put back in the bag now.
They tried to trade up for Maye. That could not be hidden.
Your answer is to have them draft a QB at #6 that they didn't want in order to smooth out any potential public relations issues?
Giants tried to trade up for Maye, not Alt, although I can believe that they might have taken Alt at #6 if the Chargers had taken Nabers. As someone said, there was a rumor a few weeks ago that the Giants thought Alt might have HOF potential.
The fact that the Giants tried to trade up for Maye clearly indicates that despite giving him that ridiculous contract they know Jones is not the long-term answer at QB. Whether that is because of his marginal performance or injury history, or both, is irrelevant. Unless he plays exceptionally well and stays healthy, 2024 will be his last season with the Giants. And if he does both then he'll stay through 2025 and be cut in March of 2026 when the dead cap hit for doing so will only be $11M.
How Jones and his team feel about the fact that the Giants desperately tried to replace him is irrelevant. This is professional sports. Almost everybody can be replaced at any given moment. Teams are always trying to get better.
I'm still not even sure how much Jones will play this year. It's entirely possible Lock is the week one starter and plays well enough to keep Jones on the bench even when he's ready to return.
Well not to belabor the point but this is why I would have made sure I drafted one of these quarterbacks. Even if not one of the top 6. However, with that not having been done, I'd still be exploring my options. I understand NYG wants status quo here but that's part of their mistake in my opinion. Status quo can't be put back in the bag now.
They tried to trade up for Maye. That could not be hidden.
Your answer is to have them draft a QB at #6 that they didn't want in order to smooth out any potential public relations issues?
Ummmm....
Not necessarily, no. They didn't have to force the pick there. There were a variety of options available to them not only at pick 6, but days 2 and 3 of the draft as well. And considering they've obviously known this whole offseason that they're done with him, the best they could have done for that room the entire offseason was to simply switch out Taylor for Lock and leave everything else the same? That seems pretty stupid/negligent to me, especially when we come back to the main point at hand here which is that it is obvious they know they're done.
they went to visit all the QBs so according to people here that means either A) they're definitely taking any QB no matter what or B) it's all PR bullshit because they love Jones.
They're doing their job. And part of the job is being able to walk away if the guy(s) you want isn't available and take the best player on your board when you're on the clock.
the injury history is a factor too. Why wouldn't it be? He's had two neck injuries now.
Schoen even talked about the injury factor to the press weeks ago.But these players are human. Jones has to be feeling it. First the Lock competing for the starting position rumors. Now the Maye attempted move up. He has to know his time here is about up. Unless he has an over the top year he will not see the next year of this contract. Schoen mentioning the other day that Jones has three years left on his contract was just bs. He does but he doesn't.
Even if Jones is "their guy", which is he clearly is, what is the harm in saying that explored other options? What is wrong with publicly saying they need to score more points and need more production from the quarterback position?
What is the downside to this? Jones and the entire world knows its the truth. You want them not do look at other options? Play better.
Three QBs went 1-2-3. We know the Giants tried to trade up with the only team willing to even listen to trading down.
It's pretty clear they were not crazy about McCarthy, Penix, and Nix as first-round options.
There were only five other quarterbacks taken in the draft, none above round 5. Now you are saying they should have taken a guy who was drafted in rounds 5, 6, or 7 in rounds 2 or 3.
How the fuck does that make sense?
You guys are not thinking. You're reacting emotionally.
I mentioned it last week, it will be interesting to see if Jones and/or his reps have something to say in the aftermath and the realization the Giants tried to replace him.
i posted this in the "Daniel Jones" thread below but man there has to be some tension/awkwardness in the building now. Like jones has to go to work and try to win KNOWING the staff wants to replace him. has to be awkward for coaches too having to coach a guy they know they want to replace.
If you draft a QB, the problem you're talking about doesn't go away. Jones still knows they are trying to replace him. They are not going to cut Jones because they drafted Joe Milton in round 6.
The Giants wanted Drake from all accounts. They tried moving up, but New England wasn’t interested, even with Joe giving them them all but his first born.
They then didn’t view any of the remaining QBs as worthy of taking at 6 and Nabers was apparently too tantalizing to move back and passing on.
It is what it is. I am as down as anyone on going into this season with this QB room, but all I can do is shrug and hope against my inclination that we’re staring down another lost season.
Vacchiano, who some think is an NYG mouthpiece, was on one of the post-draft shows today and he said the writing is on the wall with Daniel Jones being gone. He said they tried to trade up with the Pats, with a package that included next year's #1 AND additional picks.
He said the organization is walking a delicate tightrope right now because everyone knows Jones is done, but they obviously don't want to say it out loud.
The Giants had to try, or at least look like they were trying. They knew they didn't have the draft capital to induce the Pats to trade. But, if they didn't put a credible offer on the table, the fan base would go nuts. But for an outside chance, they knew they would be sticking with Jones. Next year is next year and DJ has this year to make an impact on that. TBD.
I mentioned it last week, it will be interesting to see if Jones and/or his reps have something to say in the aftermath and the realization the Giants tried to replace him.
Pro Football isn't for people who get upset about competition. I still remember when the Steelers drafted QB's to replace Terry Bradshaw. Instead of sulking, Terry worked like hell on his game, and became a Super Bowl QB.
If I were Jones, I'd simply say "Bring it on. Let the best man win. Because I WILL!" If that's not his attitude, then he needs to go. Anything else is just a loser attitude, especially coming from a five year starter at QB.
It's time Jones lives up to his contract, and starts playing at that level...or get replaced. We need to get rid of what Carl Banks calls "Scholarship Players". Judge them by how they play on the field, not where they were drafted.
If the Giants wanted Alt at 3, they wouod have given the same offer to Arizona and LAC. The Giants backed off once Maye was chosen. Anyone who believes thos nonsense needs to think.
Nailed it.
100% agreed. That's a beyond stupid take by Shefter.
Were trying to draft Maye to replace Jones is that Michael Lombardi relayed that information. Lombardi loves to make fun of the Giants for committing to Jones, so if he heard otherwise, it means something.
at this point id cut jones as soon as he can pass a physical
make it a post June 1 cut. sign tannehill for a year and let him and lock fight it out. Its clear they don't want jones long term. Take your lumps for a week with people killing you about signing him and cutting him. it will be a rough week, but then its over. don't have the story lingering all season with fans booing and players being asked about jones and his contract and his status. just get rid of it now. it will be much healthier for the franchise moving forward.
He is the starting QB of this team by everyone’s acknowledgment
You cannot be done with your starting QB
He is also under contract for 2 additional seasons at huge money and an injury clause
Lastly the excuse for not drafting his replacement and actually being done with him was that we had no conviction or fell in love with the other candidates? Well what if the Giants dont fall in love or have a conviction next year either? What if theres no one to draft? What if the Giants go 7-10 and pick in the teens?
What if Jones gets injured and he becomes uncuttable due to his cap hit?
We might be “done” with Jones while he starts for 1-3 seasons
He is here. He is under contract for 3/120 and he is the starting QB with no viable or reasonable replacement in sight
You know who the Giants are done with? Saquon. They are done with him
Whomever in the Giants FO that is even thinking about getting Dak should be fired on the spot.
I want no part of "Craig Morton, Part Two", because that is exactly what would happen if Prescott comes here. He can't win with all the talent Dallas has, and he comes here? That would delay the rebuild even LONGER!!
He is the starting QB of this team by everyone’s acknowledgment
You cannot be done with your starting QB
He is also under contract for 2 additional seasons at huge money and an injury clause
Lastly the excuse for not drafting his replacement and actually being done with him was that we had no conviction or fell in love with the other candidates? Well what if the Giants dont fall in love or have a conviction next year either? What if theres no one to draft? What if the Giants go 7-10 and pick in the teens?
What if Jones gets injured and he becomes uncuttable due to his cap hit?
We might be “done” with Jones while he starts for 1-3 seasons
He is here. He is under contract for 3/120 and he is the starting QB with no viable or reasonable replacement in sight
You know who the Giants are done with? Saquon. They are done with him
Jones will be trotted out week 1.
They tried to replace him this year. He knows it. We know it.
By default, he's been given one last chance.
Barring a complete turnaround, he will be replaced next year for no other reason than his salary combined with his injury history.
I mentioned it last week, it will be interesting to see if Jones and/or his reps have something to say in the aftermath and the realization the Giants tried to replace him.
Pro Football isn't for people who get upset about competition. I still remember when the Steelers drafted QB's to replace Terry Bradshaw. Instead of sulking, Terry worked like hell on his game, and became a Super Bowl QB.
If I were Jones, I'd simply say "Bring it on. Let the best man win. Because I WILL!" If that's not his attitude, then he needs to go. Anything else is just a loser attitude, especially coming from a five year starter at QB.
It's time Jones lives up to his contract, and starts playing at that level...or get replaced. We need to get rid of what Carl Banks calls "Scholarship Players". Judge them by how they play on the field, not where they were drafted.
No argument, I'm not concerned with Jones' feelings. I just mentioned the aftermath because it instantly becomes a tense situation if ego isn't kept in check.
It’s obvious Jones is not their long term plan at this point, but if they are done done with him now, we won’t see him out there this year. You can’t play a guy who could have you on the hook for more than 20 million if he gets hurt if you know you are going to cut him next offseason.
that reporters put things out there like this to get an official rebuttal and see who it comes from?
I mean no one else has anything remotely close to this, so he puts this out there, and looks to see who can refute it then he's got his NY Giants source.
or maybe I'm giving him and people like him too much credit and they're just narcissistic and throw shit out there true or not to get their names out there.
Well not to belabor the point but this is why I would have made sure I drafted one of these quarterbacks. Even if not one of the top 6. However, with that not having been done, I'd still be exploring my options. I understand NYG wants status quo here but that's part of their mistake in my opinion. Status quo can't be put back in the bag now.
They tried to trade up for Maye. That could not be hidden.
Your answer is to have them draft a QB at #6 that they didn't want in order to smooth out any potential public relations issues?
Ummmm....
Good management knows what they are willing to do and not willing to do and conceives plans accordingly. If they werent willing to go QB . They shouldn’t have pursued it to the extent they did
This is incompetent & dysfunctional. They pursued a plan that had little chance if success and they weren’t willing to pay the expected price and they had no backup plan to save face
Now they have a fanbase & media thinking they are done with a QB expected to start for them and with 3 years and 120 mil on contract
will almost certainly put shit out there just to get a response.
Schefter has enough pelts on the wall that he is not just going to make something up because there is a microphone in his face and he has to say something.
Somebody dropped him some hint that the trade up was not for Maye, or he had a discussion with someone who said that was a possibility.
to move on from Jones. Yes, if we'd gotten a QB, but we didn't. Jones or Lock will start. The one who plays better will finish the year. If Jones plays subpar and the team has a subpar year, then sure he's gone.
But I don't accept that how Jones performs this year has no relevance whatsoever to his future with this team.
of Dak Prescott being the QB of this team starting in 2025. There is a substantial chance that is the plan to win until they find their guy in the draft, which may be a while if the team improves and is picking outside the top 10.
A top 6 pick was too far out to get their guy in a QB heavy draft, and QBs are not getting less important around the league.
Well not to belabor the point but this is why I would have made sure I drafted one of these quarterbacks. Even if not one of the top 6. However, with that not having been done, I'd still be exploring my options. I understand NYG wants status quo here but that's part of their mistake in my opinion. Status quo can't be put back in the bag now.
They tried to trade up for Maye. That could not be hidden.
Your answer is to have them draft a QB at #6 that they didn't want in order to smooth out any potential public relations issues?
Ummmm....
Good management knows what they are willing to do and not willing to do and conceives plans accordingly. If they werent willing to go QB . They shouldn’t have pursued it to the extent they did
This is incompetent & dysfunctional. They pursued a plan that had little chance if success and they weren’t willing to pay the expected price and they had no backup plan to save face
Now they have a fanbase & media thinking they are done with a QB expected to start for them and with 3 years and 120 mil on contract
The fallout is just beginning
You're being disingenuous. Schoen did exactly what you described in the first paragraph. Knows what he's willing to do (made trade package with 2 firsts), knows what he's not willing to do (pay any price). Conceives plan accordingly (Lock). You don't have to like it but it's a plan. Again, it's disingenuous to say "if they weren't willing to trade". They made a significant package. At a certain point it's irresponsible and you're mortgaging your future even more.
"Now they have a fanbase and media thinking they're done with the QB". Yeah, bc as soon as tey can do so without cutting off their own leg, they are done with him.
And who gives a flying fuck how the fans and media perceives it? The last 5 years have convinced me most of our fans, or at least the loudest ones, are hovering at a 76 IQ and would struggle with underwater fire prevention.
RE: I can't believe the team has already made the decision
to move on from Jones. Yes, if we'd gotten a QB, but we didn't. Jones or Lock will start. The one who plays better will finish the year. If Jones plays subpar and the team has a subpar year, then sure he's gone.
But I don't accept that how Jones performs this year has no relevance whatsoever to his future with this team.
This is absolutely correct. Joe Schoen has shown he will course correct as he takes in new information.
If Jones plays 17 games and this team is playing meaningful games in December, Jones will almost certainly be the starting QB in 2025.
of Dak Prescott being the QB of this team starting in 2025. There is a substantial chance that is the plan to win until they find their guy in the draft, which may be a while if the team improves and is picking outside the top 10.
A top 6 pick was too far out to get their guy in a QB heavy draft, and QBs are not getting less important around the league.
A veteran bridge could make sense depending on how the next 8 months play out but Dak is gonna get paid, I cant see them handing out a QB contract.
RE: RE: And people should start warming to the idea
of Dak Prescott being the QB of this team starting in 2025. There is a substantial chance that is the plan to win until they find their guy in the draft, which may be a while if the team improves and is picking outside the top 10.
A top 6 pick was too far out to get their guy in a QB heavy draft, and QBs are not getting less important around the league.
A veteran bridge could make sense depending on how the next 8 months play out but Dak is gonna get paid, I cant see them handing out a QB contract.
If they are done with Jones after 2024, you are either handing out a QB contract or starting the rookie you just picked. Unless their is another injury, they are not cutting Jones and starting a guy like Lock.
One, I'm not buying it. But, two, it doesn't matter. We know they wanted a QB and could not secure one. They drafted, perhaps, the most dynamic player in the draft and seem to have drafted at least 2 other day 1 starters. This is the draft we had. It may not suit your wants, but it definitely filled needs with every precious pick.
My youth was spent watching the Giants prematurely end the careers of Lomax, Schroeder, Jaworski, Theismann. With guys like Schroeder and Lomax, it was mental.
Would trade up for Alt. Maybe he was in consideration at 6 but I still think it was Nabers.
As for Jones, who cares. He either wins the job and plays well this season or they go QB next year.
I’m excited for the season and we can put the Jones discussion to bed. I think he will play well but I’m sure even if he does some probably will find issue. If he doesn’t play well he will be cut. Middle of the road and he will probably be cut. I just hope people can root for the team to win and not root to be right.
My youth was spent watching the Giants prematurely end the careers of Lomax, Schroeder, Jaworski, Theismann. With guys like Schroeder and Lomax, it was mental.
Agreed. Jaworski once called time out because he couldn't find LT, and it turned out he was out of the game having an equipment issued repaired! good times.
we would all be well served to find something to keep us busy until the new regime arrives.
Sounds like Sy may be suggesting they never tried to trade up. That would seem unlikely with all of that noise around it.
of course not, they did it to push Nabers or Alt further down. They werent giving up on their guy 6 games after paying him. Did you see the Vikings game? This guy won a road playoff game, Giants did everything they can to try to screw him up.
we would all be well served to find something to keep us busy until the new regime arrives.
Sounds like Sy may be suggesting they never tried to trade up. That would seem unlikely with all of that noise around it.
of course not, they did it to push Nabers or Alt further down. They werent giving up on their guy 6 games after paying him. Did you see the Vikings game? This guy won a road playoff game, Giants did everything they can to try to screw him up.
I think this is written as sarcasm, but I don’t think it is far off from the discussions in the Giants front office.
All we know for sure is that Rich Eisen was wrong. Daniel Jones is still very much the immediate future of this team.
there are better prospects than Drake Maye in the draft, and they don't cost too much.
Have you looked at the list of Qb’s for 2025?
I have. Which is why I bet we are putting in a call to Dak Prescott to get him in here in 2025 (if Jones gets hurt again). If Jones stays healthy, he will be the plan for 2025 and beyond.
I still think Drew Lock could end up starting all year is that Jones may become a basket case. It's happened to other QBs.
I said this in another thread. There is no way Daboll drafted the most explosive player in the draft to take over play calling for a QB who won't attack defenses down field. That was a massive focus in training camp last year as anyone who attended will attest. If there is one thing Drew Lock can and is willing to do, it's throw the ball down field. That is not by accident. If DJ can't or won't bring that element to the game, he won't be the QB of this team. People can talk about the $140M all they want, but we saw what positions the team scouted and we saw them make an aggressive offer to try to move up in the in draft. There is no way Dabs plans to call plays for a QB who won't throw it deep.
but rapaport/breer/beats all saying the same thing vs anyone comes with a heavy burden of proof. much higher than "i heard from someone i trust".
if the contention is they didnt want maye (in addition to passing on jjm, penix, nix) then much of what we witnessed in the draft process was smoke screen.
which seems highly suspect when the team took 4 players they visited with their first 4 picks,
a year after taking 3 players they visited with their first 3 picks,
and 2 years after taking 2 top 10 guys they visited with their top 2 picks.
and we saw them make an aggressive offer to try to move up in the in draft. There is no way Dabs plans to call plays for a QB who won't throw it deep.
Read above. Sy is saying they did not try and trade up for Drake Maye.
I see. Well who knows, others have reported otherwise. But regardless, I went to as many camp practices as I could last year, and the focus was by far the vertical passing game. They have spoken about it too. I just don't see any way Dabs takes over the play calling and remains with someone who is scared to throw down field. Either DJ gets on board with it, or they will make a change. I would be very surprised to see it go down any other way.
I mentioned it last week, it will be interesting to see if Jones and/or his reps have something to say in the aftermath and the realization the Giants tried to replace him.
i posted this in the "Daniel Jones" thread below but man there has to be some tension/awkwardness in the building now. Like jones has to go to work and try to win KNOWING the staff wants to replace him. has to be awkward for coaches too having to coach a guy they know they want to replace.
No different than any other player. Neal knows we are considering our options if he can't cut it, the WRs know we drafted a stud WR, TE, etc. You want to play, earn your spot because every year there are hungry players trying to take it away.
And I agree with you, which is why I am so surprised that they have not taken even a late round flyer on a guy. I think you are right about Jones not fitting the Daboll system. 2022 worked because Daboll got away from what he did in Buffalo because he had to with Jones’ limitations. I don’t think that is what he wants long term.
I do hope we see Drew Lock starting, but I would be very surprised if that happens absent a Jones injury (or a cascade of boos from the home fans if he is struggling badly a few weeks in).
I mentioned it last week, it will be interesting to see if Jones and/or his reps have something to say in the aftermath and the realization the Giants tried to replace him.
i posted this in the "Daniel Jones" thread below but man there has to be some tension/awkwardness in the building now. Like jones has to go to work and try to win KNOWING the staff wants to replace him. has to be awkward for coaches too having to coach a guy they know they want to replace.
No different than any other player. Neal knows we are considering our options if he can't cut it, the WRs know we drafted a stud WR, TE, etc. You want to play, earn your spot because every year there are hungry players trying to take it away.
I was told NYG was not going to trade up for Maye - I read reports on the contrary but these guys were wrong about others things as well - an no offense but I think they just parrot each other anyway OR the same guy feeds them the same BS.
I'm not on the inside - I could be wrong.
But I think the potential trade would have been for Daniels. I also think they wanted MIN to trade up. And lastly - I would believe a trade up for Harrison before Ii would believe a trade up for Maye.
I was actually considering making a post at one point before the draft
That it was getting to the point where it would be hard to see Jones even in the mix at all after seeing what was playing out. So possible there is some damage control to down play that, or maybe was over stated in the reporting.
But I also come back to what I think it was the Denver GM reporting about Lock. It's hard to think he outright lied about what Lock said to him about the opportunity here. Lock has to think in some way a door is open for him to start here. He had opportunities to go elsewhere.
I was told NYG was not going to trade up for Maye - I read reports on the contrary but these guys were wrong about others things as well - an no offense but I think they just parrot each other anyway OR the same guy feeds them the same BS.
I'm not on the inside - I could be wrong.
But I think the potential trade would have been for Daniels. I also think they wanted MIN to trade up. And lastly - I would believe a trade up for Harrison before Ii would believe a trade up for Maye.
thank you for clarifying - from schoen's comments i agree MHJ was likely their #1 WR.
i think they would have traded up for maye and i also think maye was the better prospect by a good margin because MIN too wanted to trade up for maye even though they ended up being extremely conservative in the need to trade up for JJM.
Charlie Weiss made this point on NFLR today, he doesn't believe anything that comes out before the draft but he usually does believe what comes out after.
to move on from Jones. Yes, if we'd gotten a QB, but we didn't. Jones or Lock will start. The one who plays better will finish the year. If Jones plays subpar and the team has a subpar year, then sure he's gone.
But I don't accept that how Jones performs this year has no relevance whatsoever to his future with this team.
Agree completely. Jones was gone after they did not pick up the 5th year option, until he played himself into a big contract in his fourth year. Lousy season last year and he's gone again. I think if he plays well this year with more weapons and a better OL then the Giants could easily decide to ride this kid for another year while continuing to fill holes elsewhere. If he plays poorly or gets injured again then there is no choice but to move on.
It was either for Alt, Harrison, or Nabers. No other options.
Unless Sy has changed his tune from a couple of days ago, that's not what he is saying.
He has argued that the Giants didn't try to trade up, despite what the reporters in Boston, New York, and nationally are saying.
That has crossed my mind - make a big show about trying to move up to appease the fanbase, but don't actually do it.
I doubt they made a bunch of noise to piss off their QB with the hope of appeasing a fan base.
"Hey Daniel. Don't believe the rumors you are going to hear about us trying to get another QB. We are just doing that to make the fans happy because they so desperately want to replace you. But we love you..."
thinks they made the decision on no QB this year prior to the draft anyway.
✅
From a numbers standpoint this makes sense. Signing Jones to that albatross of a contract only to replace him the following year while still owing him at least 70 million over the next two seasons is a surefire way to get fired unless you feel like you have a surefire pick at an elite QB on your hands. This approach buys them more time in Mara's eyes.
In comment 16499530 Mike from Ohio said:
[quote] of Dak Prescott being the QB of this team starting in 2025. There is a substantial chance that is the plan to win until they find their guy in the draft, which may be a while if the team improves and is picking outside the top 10.
A top 6 pick was too far out to get their guy in a QB heavy draft, and QBs are not getting less important around the league. [/quote
Are you serious? Why would we want Dak? So overrated. He has had the luxury of great supporting cast since he joined the team.
Post draft - I don't think it serves the Giants in any capacity
to feed those guys bullshit about trying to trade up for Maye. Assuming their intel is coming from the Giants of course. It just creates messiness with the QB they have under contract. Pre-draft sure but now would be the time for the Giants to want other narratives out there.
It was either for Alt, Harrison, or Nabers. No other options.
Unless Sy has changed his tune from a couple of days ago, that's not what he is saying.
He has argued that the Giants didn't try to trade up, despite what the reporters in Boston, New York, and nationally are saying.
That has crossed my mind - make a big show about trying to move up to appease the fanbase, but don't actually do it.
I doubt they made a bunch of noise to piss off their QB with the hope of appeasing a fan base.
"Hey Daniel. Don't believe the rumors you are going to hear about us trying to get another QB. We are just doing that to make the fans happy because they so desperately want to replace you. But we love you..."
They were looking for a guy they had complete conviction in to stake their futures on it. Those guys weren't available and they didn't want to take the chance on anyone else, even on Maye. Sounds like they could have had Maye if they really wanted, but they didn't feel like the numbers made sense for the likelihood of Maye becoming an elite qb.
The amount of people inside the building that actually know what Schoen is thinking is minuscule. Very different that previous regimes.
I do think they are a step ahead of ALL members of the media and those guys easily believe everything that is fed to them. Some of the longtime connections they have to NYG no longer have the insider-info they used to.
thinks they made the decision on no QB this year prior to the draft anyway.
✅
From a numbers standpoint this makes sense. Signing Jones to that albatross of a contract only to replace him the following year while still owing him at least 70 million over the next two seasons is a surefire way to get fired unless you feel like you have a surefire pick at an elite QB on your hands. This approach buys them more time in Mara's eyes.
That would not surprise me at all. They gave him two years on the contract so I would not be surprised if Mara told them you need to give him the full two years. Drafting a QB in the first means they only really gave him one before they made the decision to move on.
thinks they made the decision on no QB this year prior to the draft anyway.
✅
From a numbers standpoint this makes sense. Signing Jones to that albatross of a contract only to replace him the following year while still owing him at least 70 million over the next two seasons is a surefire way to get fired unless you feel like you have a surefire pick at an elite QB on your hands. This approach buys them more time in Mara's eyes.
That would not surprise me at all. They gave him two years on the contract so I would not be surprised if Mara told them you need to give him the full two years. Drafting a QB in the first means they only really gave him one before they made the decision to move on.
This is the most logical reasoning for not trading the farm for a QB and passing up on 3 other top 12 qb draft picks.
The amount of people inside the building that actually know what Schoen is thinking is minuscule. Very different that previous regimes.
I do think they are a step ahead of ALL members of the media and those guys easily believe everything that is fed to them. Some of the longtime connections they have to NYG no longer have the insider-info they used to.
I agree with you, the only were going QB if they could get one for little to no more than pick 6 while still fully believing the QB could succeed as a franchise qb. They likely tried to trade something like pick 6, 70, and 2025 2nd for pick 3 (this is traditional trade chart value).
thinks they made the decision on no QB this year prior to the draft anyway.
✅
From a numbers standpoint this makes sense. Signing Jones to that albatross of a contract only to replace him the following year while still owing him at least 70 million over the next two seasons is a surefire way to get fired unless you feel like you have a surefire pick at an elite QB on your hands. This approach buys them more time in Mara's eyes.
That would not surprise me at all. They gave him two years on the contract so I would not be surprised if Mara told them you need to give him the full two years. Drafting a QB in the first means they only really gave him one before they made the decision to move on.
This is the most logical reasoning for not trading the farm for a QB and passing up on 3 other top 12 qb draft picks.
Just because 3 other QB's were drafted in the Top 12 does not mean that the Giants had them rated highly. Teams thought guys like Cade McNown, Blaine Gabbert, Josh Rosen, Christian Ponder, etc. were worthy of being taken that high and look how they turned out.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: And the stubborn side of me
thinks they made the decision on no QB this year prior to the draft anyway.
✅
From a numbers standpoint this makes sense. Signing Jones to that albatross of a contract only to replace him the following year while still owing him at least 70 million over the next two seasons is a surefire way to get fired unless you feel like you have a surefire pick at an elite QB on your hands. This approach buys them more time in Mara's eyes.
That would not surprise me at all. They gave him two years on the contract so I would not be surprised if Mara told them you need to give him the full two years. Drafting a QB in the first means they only really gave him one before they made the decision to move on.
This is the most logical reasoning for not trading the farm for a QB and passing up on 3 other top 12 qb draft picks.
Just because 3 other QB's were drafted in the Top 12 does not mean that the Giants had them rated highly. Teams thought guys like Cade McNown, Blaine Gabbert, Josh Rosen, Christian Ponder, etc. were worthy of being taken that high and look how they turned out.
Did you read what I said in in the first post? I folded it for you, I said they needed to feel utmost conviction in the guy otherwise they are risking their careers drafting a new qb after signing DJ--whom is beloved by Mara--just last year to a big contract and still owing him 70 million minimum over the next 2 years.
The amount of people inside the building that actually know what Schoen is thinking is minuscule. Very different that previous regimes.
I do think they are a step ahead of ALL members of the media and those guys easily believe everything that is fed to them. Some of the longtime connections they have to NYG no longer have the insider-info they used to.
This is undoubtedly true.
However, the Boston reporters were certainly reporting the same thing from their end. New England was clearly shopping the pick and didn't publicly say they were staying put until Thursday (when Mayo made his comments to the fans before the draft).
And most importantly, Schoen and Daboll's public commitment to Jones bordered on a hostage video. Daniel also didn't look like a guy who thought his job was safe when the offseason program presser was held (also had hostage video vibes).
Everyone and their grandmother mocked Nabers to the Giants before the draft. That wasn't a surprise at all. What surprised the media was the realization that the Giants were REALLY trying to get Maye (and may actually take McCarthy). Their tone changed in the last two weeks when that dawned on them.
Every action suggest the Giants thought Maye was the only one within possible reach of landing that was worthy of selection. When he (and the other two) were off the board, they pivoted.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: And the stubborn side of me
thinks they made the decision on no QB this year prior to the draft anyway.
✅
From a numbers standpoint this makes sense. Signing Jones to that albatross of a contract only to replace him the following year while still owing him at least 70 million over the next two seasons is a surefire way to get fired unless you feel like you have a surefire pick at an elite QB on your hands. This approach buys them more time in Mara's eyes.
That would not surprise me at all. They gave him two years on the contract so I would not be surprised if Mara told them you need to give him the full two years. Drafting a QB in the first means they only really gave him one before they made the decision to move on.
This is the most logical reasoning for not trading the farm for a QB and passing up on 3 other top 12 qb draft picks.
Just because 3 other QB's were drafted in the Top 12 does not mean that the Giants had them rated highly. Teams thought guys like Cade McNown, Blaine Gabbert, Josh Rosen, Christian Ponder, etc. were worthy of being taken that high and look how they turned out.
Did you read what I said in in the first post? I folded it for you, I said they needed to feel utmost conviction in the guy otherwise they are risking their careers drafting a new qb after signing DJ--whom is beloved by Mara--just last year to a big contract and still owing him 70 million minimum over the next 2 years.
I saw that. I was also objecting to classifying the other 3 as "top 12 QB draft picks" just because they were drafted there. That makes it seem like they will all justify that selection which history tells us is not the case.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: And the stubborn side of me
thinks they made the decision on no QB this year prior to the draft anyway.
✅
From a numbers standpoint this makes sense. Signing Jones to that albatross of a contract only to replace him the following year while still owing him at least 70 million over the next two seasons is a surefire way to get fired unless you feel like you have a surefire pick at an elite QB on your hands. This approach buys them more time in Mara's eyes.
That would not surprise me at all. They gave him two years on the contract so I would not be surprised if Mara told them you need to give him the full two years. Drafting a QB in the first means they only really gave him one before they made the decision to move on.
This is the most logical reasoning for not trading the farm for a QB and passing up on 3 other top 12 qb draft picks.
Just because 3 other QB's were drafted in the Top 12 does not mean that the Giants had them rated highly. Teams thought guys like Cade McNown, Blaine Gabbert, Josh Rosen, Christian Ponder, etc. were worthy of being taken that high and look how they turned out.
Did you read what I said in in the first post? I folded it for you, I said they needed to feel utmost conviction in the guy otherwise they are risking their careers drafting a new qb after signing DJ--whom is beloved by Mara--just last year to a big contract and still owing him 70 million minimum over the next 2 years.
I saw that. I was also objecting to classifying the other 3 as "top 12 QB draft picks" just because they were drafted there. That makes it seem like they will all justify that selection which history tells us is not the case.
No I was just saying they were all picked in the top 12. If we hadn't signed DJ to that contract and he was franchise tagged, I bet we take one of those QBs or put more on the table to get Maye. That was my point. Mara wanted DJ here long term though, he said so himself. Franchise tagging him was never an option.
The amount of people inside the building that actually know what Schoen is thinking is minuscule. Very different that previous regimes.
I do think they are a step ahead of ALL members of the media and those guys easily believe everything that is fed to them. Some of the longtime connections they have to NYG no longer have the insider-info they used to.
This is undoubtedly true.
However, the Boston reporters were certainly reporting the same thing from their end. New England was clearly shopping the pick and didn't publicly say they were staying put until Thursday (when Mayo made his comments to the fans before the draft).
And most importantly, Schoen and Daboll's public commitment to Jones bordered on a hostage video. Daniel also didn't look like a guy who thought his job was safe when the offseason program presser was held (also had hostage video vibes).
Everyone and their grandmother mocked Nabers to the Giants before the draft. That wasn't a surprise at all. What surprised the media was the realization that the Giants were REALLY trying to get Maye (and may actually take McCarthy). Their tone changed in the last two weeks when that dawned on them.
Every action suggest the Giants thought Maye was the only one within possible reach of landing that was worthy of selection. When he (and the other two) were off the board, they pivoted.
Also, let's not forget the Seattle GM who said this of NYG to Lock: “basically sold him on the opportunity to compete to be the starter.” I know Lock himself refuted it publicly, but are we to believe the Seattle GM was lying?
This is all out there making the situation extremely uncomfortable.
They also drafted a WR who said the QB situation wasn't worked out
What if Mara was the one leaking rumors about imminent trade ups for Maye while telling DJ he might hear about rumors, but not to worry because we won't take a QB? There's a conspiracy theory for ya!
RE: They also drafted a WR who said the QB situation wasn't worked out
I mentioned it last week, it will be interesting to see if Jones and/or his reps have something to say in the aftermath and the realization the Giants tried to replace him.
Ah, this makes a lot of sense.
RE: RE: They also drafted a WR who said the QB situation wasn't worked out
That said, do I think there’s a good chance Nabers voices his frustration this fall if Jones back there & not producing? 100%.
Every top WR thinks they can make the offense go if you get the ball in their hands. Do you want a guy who says “I know the offense is struggling, so what, eventually it will get figured out”?
had been saying for 2 months that the Giants wanted the #3 pick. Once the negotiations progressed, it was obvious that the Giants wanted Maye. They were ready to give up a #1 in 2025 and a #3 in 2025 to get him. I was told after the fact that they sweetened the deal, but the Pats were told by Kraft to take the QB.
If that was a smokescreen, they kept it up for months.
RE: the other QBs, its the Giants FO vs. the league
and I wouldn't bet my life that the Giants outsmarted everyone. #8, #10, and #12 tells me that Penix, McCarthy, and Nix were in the "value" ballpark. Daboll had better hope that Lock/Jones can significantly outpace those three this year.
did say it was for Maye. He said it matter-of-factly (remember, this is the NYG unofficial source).
Interestingly, Kollman said matter-of-factly on another YouTube draft review for all teams that "everyone knows that Giants ownership was behind Jones' contract."
Context: He was discussing with the host that he found it fascinating that Schoen/Daboll did not draft a QB to save their own necks. He speculates they have been told their jobs are safe this year because they didn't.
Seems pretty clear the Giants were in on Maye. This is where we all get too nuts going in these extreme directions. They wanted Maye. Even fucking Paul Schwartz is reporting it.
RE: They also drafted a WR who said the QB situation wasn't worked out
had been saying for 2 months that the Giants wanted the #3 pick. Once the negotiations progressed, it was obvious that the Giants wanted Maye. They were ready to give up a #1 in 2025 and a #3 in 2025 to get him. I was told after the fact that they sweetened the deal, but the Pats were told by Kraft to take the QB.
If that was a smokescreen, they kept it up for months.
2025 1st and 3rd isn't really a serious offer, that's a low ball offer.
Context: He was discussing with the host that he found it fascinating that Schoen/Daboll did not draft a QB to save their own necks. He speculates they have been told their jobs are safe this year because they didn't.
I totally agree with this conclusion. They looked very relaxed at their post-draft presser.
Sure, they didn't get the more talented, big southern white guy. But they kept their hardworking, smart, team first southern white guy. Therefore, still a lot of boxes checked... ;)
Seems pretty clear the Giants were in on Maye. This is where we all get too nuts going in these extreme directions. They wanted Maye. Even fucking Paul Schwartz is reporting it.
& I don't think the Pats ever really entertained an offer to move off of 3. That's just my take. It sucks, but it is what it is. What can Joe do if the team doesn't want to trade back? Absolutely nothing.
thinks they made the decision on no QB this year prior to the draft anyway.
Agree. They must have some positive medical reports. The draft tells us the Giants, at the very least, don’t think Jones sucks the way many here believe. Their actions speak volumes. I do believe that a healthy Jones possesses the skill set required to effectively run the offense provided that you reasonably protect him and you have playmakers explosive enough to break some. I hope they get a chance to see what that looks like. Tua looks way better with Waddle and Hill. Tracy is an amazing fit. Wandale is a matchup load, Hyatt can get by you, Johnson can attack the seem. Nabers is a game changing WR1 day 1.
I am excited.
RE: RE: All I can say is that people I know inside the Pats organization
had been saying for 2 months that the Giants wanted the #3 pick. Once the negotiations progressed, it was obvious that the Giants wanted Maye. They were ready to give up a #1 in 2025 and a #3 in 2025 to get him. I was told after the fact that they sweetened the deal, but the Pats were told by Kraft to take the QB.
If that was a smokescreen, they kept it up for months.
2025 1st and 3rd isn't really a serious offer, that's a low ball offer.
Nonsense, it was 3 spots not 9.
RE: RE: RE: All I can say is that people I know inside the Pats organization
had been saying for 2 months that the Giants wanted the #3 pick. Once the negotiations progressed, it was obvious that the Giants wanted Maye. They were ready to give up a #1 in 2025 and a #3 in 2025 to get him. I was told after the fact that they sweetened the deal, but the Pats were told by Kraft to take the QB.
If that was a smokescreen, they kept it up for months.
2025 1st and 3rd isn't really a serious offer, that's a low ball offer.
Nonsense, it was 3 spots not 9.
The Patriots would never have considered accepting it without pick 47 and the 2025 1st.
had been saying for 2 months that the Giants wanted the #3 pick. Once the negotiations progressed, it was obvious that the Giants wanted Maye. They were ready to give up a #1 in 2025 and a #3 in 2025 to get him. I was told after the fact that they sweetened the deal, but the Pats were told by Kraft to take the QB.
If that was a smokescreen, they kept it up for months.
2025 1st and 3rd isn't really a serious offer, that's a low ball offer.
Nonsense, it was 3 spots not 9.
Whether they offered 47 and 2025 1st or not, I'm glad they didn't make the trade for Maye as I think it would have been a mistake that set us back severely. I just think 2025 1st and 3rd is a lowball offer personally and I don't think they wanted to make serious offers if that's all they offered.
We were offering any kind of package for an OT. If we were trying to trade up it was 100% for a QB and since the 1st 2 picks were done deals it was obviously Maye.
Also why do we need the kid gloves for Daniel's feelings?
"The goal of the draft is to build the Giants into a SB winning team. Every player at every position has to earn his spot on the roster and in the lineup. Everyone in this building is a competitor. We compete at every position."
And the QB look like hostages reciting lines nobody believes but everyone feels like they have to say.
Floating rumors to the press to appease your QB because you failed to replace him, then gave him a lucrative contract, and then failed to replace him again.
The Coach saying he expects his defensive coordinator back after having a screaming match with him before he ran away from home like a 10 year old before mutually agreeing to part ways.
Maybe there is some evidence that this organization is a bit dysfunctional?
And the QB look like hostages reciting lines nobody believes but everyone feels like they have to say.
Floating rumors to the press to appease your QB because you failed to replace him, then gave him a lucrative contract, and then failed to replace him again.
The Coach saying he expects his defensive coordinator back after having a screaming match with him before he ran away from home like a 10 year old before mutually agreeing to part ways.
Don’t forget floating your OC is going to leave and then for “Optics” because you lost so many other coaches, you deny him to leave and “promote” him with a fancy new title and pay increase but will strip him of play calling duties, presumably when enough time has passed that it doesn’t look bad.
Maybe there is some evidence that this organization is a bit dysfunctional?
thinks they made the decision on no QB this year prior to the draft anyway.
I love you dearly, but nobody puts that much effort into scouting QBs, putting them on the 30 list, scouting several games each to just use it as a smoke screen.
It may very well be in the end, they decided there were far too many flaws in all but Williams and Daniels to justify drafting, but they weren't pretend scouting and interviewing for their health.
The amount of people inside the building that actually know what Schoen is thinking is minuscule. Very different that previous regimes.
I do think they are a step ahead of ALL members of the media and those guys easily believe everything that is fed to them. Some of the longtime connections they have to NYG no longer have the insider-info they used to.
I had no knowledge of this, I value your confirmation. That is exactly what it seems like to me Sy. I FIRMLY believe that they had no real intention to trade up for Maye. They knew what it would take, they never got close. I think it was diversion. They were always going for Nabers. He will be the engine for the offense. This is a YAC offense. It needs multiple playmakers. Defense can alway choose to take 1 away. Absolutely had to have a real number 1.
but had Nabers and MHJ gone i could have seen them taking Alt. he checks every box and may be safest prospect in draft at a huge position of need. it is not hard to envision him being the next Lane Johnson. Harbough obviously had a blue chip grade on him and Harbough is excellent with OL.
As I said before the draft, Schefter seems to be losing his mojo.
Link - ( New Window )
Cool.
As I said before the draft, Schefter seems to be losing his mojo.
Yeah, this seems crazy. Maybe the Giants are trying to get this rumor out there to avoid obvious storyline that they are unhappy with DJ?
He said the organization is walking a delicate tightrope right now because everyone knows Jones is done, but they obviously don't want to say it out loud.
Maybe this is damage control so Jones doesn’t feel insulted??
Just imagine....what this sight would have been with a trade up....but not for a QB. Wow
+1
@art_stapleton
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17m
Obviously respect Adam, but listen to the clip before this gets blown out of proportion. "unconfirmed"
Nailed it.
Quote:
...
+1
I think it’s over exposure. The networks love him and want him out there saying something all the time now. The more you talk the more a chance you say something stupid. He is doing a lot of talking recently.
we know Harbough thought Alt was better than Nabers as a RT and despite a more extreme WR need, and we know the rest of the league let Odunze slide to #9.
i can see a case for either of them having been the pick at #6 if nabers wasnt there.
The Giants should tell them to F off if they’re so hurt by them trying to upgrade the position.
i posted this in the "Daniel Jones" thread below but man there has to be some tension/awkwardness in the building now. Like jones has to go to work and try to win KNOWING the staff wants to replace him. has to be awkward for coaches too having to coach a guy they know they want to replace.
No chance this is true. Giants trying to save face with Jones...
He said the organization is walking a delicate tightrope right now because everyone knows Jones is done, but they obviously don't want to say it out loud.
Something must not be going right with his rehab/or they feel like something mentally has happened to Jones then?
Maybe this is damage control so Jones doesn’t feel insulted??
Maybe by some miracle he plays decent early on and they can trade him? Where if they make it obvious they wanted to dump him his value would be further diminished? I mean league people know they were trying to trade him if we know.
Quote:
What are we doing?
Maybe this is damage control so Jones doesn’t feel insulted??
Maybe by some miracle he plays decent early on and they can trade him? Where if they make it obvious they wanted to dump him his value would be further diminished? I mean league people know they were trying to trade him if we know.
Not trade in that last sentence, I meant to say trade up and replace him.
Quote:
Vacchiano, who some think is an NYG mouthpiece, was on one of the post-draft shows today and he said the writing is on the wall with Daniel Jones being gone. He said they tried to trade up with the Pats, with a package that included next year's #1 AND additional picks.
He said the organization is walking a delicate tightrope right now because everyone knows Jones is done, but they obviously don't want to say it out loud.
Something must not be going right with his rehab/or they feel like something mentally has happened to Jones then?
What? No, they see how he plays. The know he is coming off serious injuries.
Have you not been reading the site for the past six months?
No chance it’s true
He said the organization is walking a delicate tightrope right now because everyone knows Jones is done, but they obviously don't want to say it out loud.
Eric, this is the organizational failure. You can't act it, hint at it, insinuate it and then dance around it as if it's not real.
They can't be halfway done with Jones! If it's over, it's over, regardless of whether or not they were able to draft a guy they liked.
This both sides of the fence stuff is annoying and not good for the business of football.
Quote:
In comment 16499270 Eric from BBI said:
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Vacchiano, who some think is an NYG mouthpiece, was on one of the post-draft shows today and he said the writing is on the wall with Daniel Jones being gone. He said they tried to trade up with the Pats, with a package that included next year's #1 AND additional picks.
He said the organization is walking a delicate tightrope right now because everyone knows Jones is done, but they obviously don't want to say it out loud.
Something must not be going right with his rehab/or they feel like something mentally has happened to Jones then?
What? No, they see how he plays. The know he is coming off serious injuries.
Have you not been reading the site for the past six months?
I certainly have Eric, but there is no way they're going to give him the contract that they did and then change their mind based solely on the 6 games he played last year with easily the worst o-line in football; especially after he led the team to a playoff win the year before with a suspect o-line and overall roster. Yes the injuries mean something...but I'm implying, maybe something behind the scenes is going on with Jones? Has he completely lost confidence? Is rehab not going well? Something that we don't know about that they're also not going to discuss with the media. Otherwise why would "everyone in the organization, now all of the sudden say he's "done." That just seems far fetched to me.
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Vacchiano, who some think is an NYG mouthpiece, was on one of the post-draft shows today and he said the writing is on the wall with Daniel Jones being gone. He said they tried to trade up with the Pats, with a package that included next year's #1 AND additional picks.
He said the organization is walking a delicate tightrope right now because everyone knows Jones is done, but they obviously don't want to say it out loud.
Eric, this is the organizational failure. You can't act it, hint at it, insinuate it and then dance around it as if it's not real.
They can't be halfway done with Jones! If it's over, it's over, regardless of whether or not they were able to draft a guy they liked.
This both sides of the fence stuff is annoying and not good for the business of football.
They haven't acted it, hinted at it, or insinuated it. (It's one of the reasons why the dunderheads are so upset because they won't say it).
But their actions show they are done with him. You can't hide that.
So you are asking the impossible, unless you want to stick with Jones for three more years so the organization doesn't send out a bad message.
Well, they have.
Their actions show it.
If you can't see that, I can't help you.
He said the organization is walking a delicate tightrope right now because everyone knows Jones is done, but they obviously don't want to say it out loud.
This makes sense. the other stuff is all bullshit.
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In comment 16499270 Eric from BBI said:
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Vacchiano, who some think is an NYG mouthpiece, was on one of the post-draft shows today and he said the writing is on the wall with Daniel Jones being gone. He said they tried to trade up with the Pats, with a package that included next year's #1 AND additional picks.
He said the organization is walking a delicate tightrope right now because everyone knows Jones is done, but they obviously don't want to say it out loud.
Eric, this is the organizational failure. You can't act it, hint at it, insinuate it and then dance around it as if it's not real.
They can't be halfway done with Jones! If it's over, it's over, regardless of whether or not they were able to draft a guy they liked.
This both sides of the fence stuff is annoying and not good for the business of football.
They haven't acted it, hinted at it, or insinuated it. (It's one of the reasons why the dunderheads are so upset because they won't say it).
But their actions show they are done with him. You can't hide that.
So you are asking the impossible, unless you want to stick with Jones for three more years so the organization doesn't send out a bad message.
I dunno if we are getting caught up on semantics but I'm saying they've acted like it and you are saying no they haven't but their actions show it. I think we're saying the same thing.
This whole thing boils down to this. Schoen and Daboll are "saying" things that lead you to believe Jones is still the guy. Yet, every other data point (i.e. heavily scouting this draft class, trying to trade up for Maye, even Daboll's body language towards Jones going back to last season) points in the opposite direction.
I'm simply saying this isn't great for the team, fans, etc.
What do you want them to do?
well boohoo for him, because it's nothing compared to the humiliation Simms went through with Scott "Olive Oyl" Brunner being named to start over him after coming back from several major injuries. This stuff is just words. And if he wants it to stop just play well and win games.
2 - Something put out by Jones camp because he's more marketable as a cemented starter than bridge QB
I'm leaning towards option 1 as Schoen was quick to mention Jones's name right after picking Nabers.
What do you want them to do?
Well not to belabor the point but this is why I would have made sure I drafted one of these quarterbacks. Even if not one of the top 6. However, with that not having been done, I'd still be exploring my options. I understand NYG wants status quo here but that's part of their mistake in my opinion. Status quo can't be put back in the bag now.
2 - Something put out by Jones camp because he's more marketable as a cemented starter than bridge QB
I'm leaning towards option 1 as Schoen was quick to mention Jones's name right after picking Nabers.
Or option #3, Schefter is putting something out there simply to get attention.
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Well, obviously.
What do you want them to do?
Well not to belabor the point but this is why I would have made sure I drafted one of these quarterbacks. Even if not one of the top 6. However, with that not having been done, I'd still be exploring my options. I understand NYG wants status quo here but that's part of their mistake in my opinion. Status quo can't be put back in the bag now.
They tried to trade up for Maye. That could not be hidden.
Your answer is to have them draft a QB at #6 that they didn't want in order to smooth out any potential public relations issues?
Ummmm....
Get a fuckin life man.
The fact that the Giants tried to trade up for Maye clearly indicates that despite giving him that ridiculous contract they know Jones is not the long-term answer at QB. Whether that is because of his marginal performance or injury history, or both, is irrelevant. Unless he plays exceptionally well and stays healthy, 2024 will be his last season with the Giants. And if he does both then he'll stay through 2025 and be cut in March of 2026 when the dead cap hit for doing so will only be $11M.
How Jones and his team feel about the fact that the Giants desperately tried to replace him is irrelevant. This is professional sports. Almost everybody can be replaced at any given moment. Teams are always trying to get better.
I'm still not even sure how much Jones will play this year. It's entirely possible Lock is the week one starter and plays well enough to keep Jones on the bench even when he's ready to return.
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In comment 16499385 Eric from BBI said:
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Well, obviously.
What do you want them to do?
Well not to belabor the point but this is why I would have made sure I drafted one of these quarterbacks. Even if not one of the top 6. However, with that not having been done, I'd still be exploring my options. I understand NYG wants status quo here but that's part of their mistake in my opinion. Status quo can't be put back in the bag now.
They tried to trade up for Maye. That could not be hidden.
Your answer is to have them draft a QB at #6 that they didn't want in order to smooth out any potential public relations issues?
Ummmm....
Not necessarily, no. They didn't have to force the pick there. There were a variety of options available to them not only at pick 6, but days 2 and 3 of the draft as well. And considering they've obviously known this whole offseason that they're done with him, the best they could have done for that room the entire offseason was to simply switch out Taylor for Lock and leave everything else the same? That seems pretty stupid/negligent to me, especially when we come back to the main point at hand here which is that it is obvious they know they're done.
They're doing their job. And part of the job is being able to walk away if the guy(s) you want isn't available and take the best player on your board when you're on the clock.
What is the downside to this? Jones and the entire world knows its the truth. You want them not do look at other options? Play better.
Three QBs went 1-2-3. We know the Giants tried to trade up with the only team willing to even listen to trading down.
It's pretty clear they were not crazy about McCarthy, Penix, and Nix as first-round options.
There were only five other quarterbacks taken in the draft, none above round 5. Now you are saying they should have taken a guy who was drafted in rounds 5, 6, or 7 in rounds 2 or 3.
How the fuck does that make sense?
You guys are not thinking. You're reacting emotionally.
In comment 16499295 BleedBlue said:
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I mentioned it last week, it will be interesting to see if Jones and/or his reps have something to say in the aftermath and the realization the Giants tried to replace him.
i posted this in the "Daniel Jones" thread below but man there has to be some tension/awkwardness in the building now. Like jones has to go to work and try to win KNOWING the staff wants to replace him. has to be awkward for coaches too having to coach a guy they know they want to replace.
If you draft a QB, the problem you're talking about doesn't go away. Jones still knows they are trying to replace him. They are not going to cut Jones because they drafted Joe Milton in round 6.
They then didn’t view any of the remaining QBs as worthy of taking at 6 and Nabers was apparently too tantalizing to move back and passing on.
It is what it is. I am as down as anyone on going into this season with this QB room, but all I can do is shrug and hope against my inclination that we’re staring down another lost season.
He said the organization is walking a delicate tightrope right now because everyone knows Jones is done, but they obviously don't want to say it out loud.
The Giants had to try, or at least look like they were trying. They knew they didn't have the draft capital to induce the Pats to trade. But, if they didn't put a credible offer on the table, the fan base would go nuts. But for an outside chance, they knew they would be sticking with Jones. Next year is next year and DJ has this year to make an impact on that. TBD.
Pro Football isn't for people who get upset about competition. I still remember when the Steelers drafted QB's to replace Terry Bradshaw. Instead of sulking, Terry worked like hell on his game, and became a Super Bowl QB.
If I were Jones, I'd simply say "Bring it on. Let the best man win. Because I WILL!" If that's not his attitude, then he needs to go. Anything else is just a loser attitude, especially coming from a five year starter at QB.
It's time Jones lives up to his contract, and starts playing at that level...or get replaced. We need to get rid of what Carl Banks calls "Scholarship Players". Judge them by how they play on the field, not where they were drafted.
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If the Giants wanted Alt at 3, they wouod have given the same offer to Arizona and LAC. The Giants backed off once Maye was chosen. Anyone who believes thos nonsense needs to think.
Nailed it.
100% agreed. That's a beyond stupid take by Shefter.
You cannot be done with your starting QB
He is also under contract for 2 additional seasons at huge money and an injury clause
Lastly the excuse for not drafting his replacement and actually being done with him was that we had no conviction or fell in love with the other candidates? Well what if the Giants dont fall in love or have a conviction next year either? What if theres no one to draft? What if the Giants go 7-10 and pick in the teens?
What if Jones gets injured and he becomes uncuttable due to his cap hit?
We might be “done” with Jones while he starts for 1-3 seasons
He is here. He is under contract for 3/120 and he is the starting QB with no viable or reasonable replacement in sight
You know who the Giants are done with? Saquon. They are done with him
Jones will be trotted out week 1.
Whomever in the Giants FO that is even thinking about getting Dak should be fired on the spot.
I want no part of "Craig Morton, Part Two", because that is exactly what would happen if Prescott comes here. He can't win with all the talent Dallas has, and he comes here? That would delay the rebuild even LONGER!!
You cannot be done with your starting QB
He is also under contract for 2 additional seasons at huge money and an injury clause
Lastly the excuse for not drafting his replacement and actually being done with him was that we had no conviction or fell in love with the other candidates? Well what if the Giants dont fall in love or have a conviction next year either? What if theres no one to draft? What if the Giants go 7-10 and pick in the teens?
What if Jones gets injured and he becomes uncuttable due to his cap hit?
We might be “done” with Jones while he starts for 1-3 seasons
He is here. He is under contract for 3/120 and he is the starting QB with no viable or reasonable replacement in sight
You know who the Giants are done with? Saquon. They are done with him
Jones will be trotted out week 1.
They tried to replace him this year. He knows it. We know it.
By default, he's been given one last chance.
Barring a complete turnaround, he will be replaced next year for no other reason than his salary combined with his injury history.
Six were taken in the first 12 picks. That's never happened. Three of those six probably should have gone in round two.
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I mentioned it last week, it will be interesting to see if Jones and/or his reps have something to say in the aftermath and the realization the Giants tried to replace him.
Pro Football isn't for people who get upset about competition. I still remember when the Steelers drafted QB's to replace Terry Bradshaw. Instead of sulking, Terry worked like hell on his game, and became a Super Bowl QB.
If I were Jones, I'd simply say "Bring it on. Let the best man win. Because I WILL!" If that's not his attitude, then he needs to go. Anything else is just a loser attitude, especially coming from a five year starter at QB.
It's time Jones lives up to his contract, and starts playing at that level...or get replaced. We need to get rid of what Carl Banks calls "Scholarship Players". Judge them by how they play on the field, not where they were drafted.
No argument, I'm not concerned with Jones' feelings. I just mentioned the aftermath because it instantly becomes a tense situation if ego isn't kept in check.
I mean no one else has anything remotely close to this, so he puts this out there, and looks to see who can refute it then he's got his NY Giants source.
or maybe I'm giving him and people like him too much credit and they're just narcissistic and throw shit out there true or not to get their names out there.
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1 - The Giants not wanting their starting QB to feel undermined, so floating out a false rumor they were looking at Alt, not Maye
2 - Something put out by Jones camp because he's more marketable as a cemented starter than bridge QB
I'm leaning towards option 1 as Schoen was quick to mention Jones's name right after picking Nabers.
Or option #3, Schefter is putting something out there simply to get attention.
Also likely
If the reporting was Schoen really coveted MHJR that would be more believable. It's easy to conclude someone seeing him as a transcendent talent.
When Schoen said he texted Jones about the decision to select Nabers that was probably the start of the healing process. At least in the short term...
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In comment 16499385 Eric from BBI said:
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Well, obviously.
What do you want them to do?
Well not to belabor the point but this is why I would have made sure I drafted one of these quarterbacks. Even if not one of the top 6. However, with that not having been done, I'd still be exploring my options. I understand NYG wants status quo here but that's part of their mistake in my opinion. Status quo can't be put back in the bag now.
They tried to trade up for Maye. That could not be hidden.
Your answer is to have them draft a QB at #6 that they didn't want in order to smooth out any potential public relations issues?
Ummmm....
Good management knows what they are willing to do and not willing to do and conceives plans accordingly. If they werent willing to go QB . They shouldn’t have pursued it to the extent they did
This is incompetent & dysfunctional. They pursued a plan that had little chance if success and they weren’t willing to pay the expected price and they had no backup plan to save face
Now they have a fanbase & media thinking they are done with a QB expected to start for them and with 3 years and 120 mil on contract
The fallout is just beginning
Schefter has enough pelts on the wall that he is not just going to make something up because there is a microphone in his face and he has to say something.
Somebody dropped him some hint that the trade up was not for Maye, or he had a discussion with someone who said that was a possibility.
But I don't accept that how Jones performs this year has no relevance whatsoever to his future with this team.
A top 6 pick was too far out to get their guy in a QB heavy draft, and QBs are not getting less important around the league.
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In comment 16499409 Chris684 said:
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In comment 16499385 Eric from BBI said:
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Well, obviously.
What do you want them to do?
Well not to belabor the point but this is why I would have made sure I drafted one of these quarterbacks. Even if not one of the top 6. However, with that not having been done, I'd still be exploring my options. I understand NYG wants status quo here but that's part of their mistake in my opinion. Status quo can't be put back in the bag now.
They tried to trade up for Maye. That could not be hidden.
Your answer is to have them draft a QB at #6 that they didn't want in order to smooth out any potential public relations issues?
Ummmm....
Good management knows what they are willing to do and not willing to do and conceives plans accordingly. If they werent willing to go QB . They shouldn’t have pursued it to the extent they did
This is incompetent & dysfunctional. They pursued a plan that had little chance if success and they weren’t willing to pay the expected price and they had no backup plan to save face
Now they have a fanbase & media thinking they are done with a QB expected to start for them and with 3 years and 120 mil on contract
The fallout is just beginning
You're being disingenuous. Schoen did exactly what you described in the first paragraph. Knows what he's willing to do (made trade package with 2 firsts), knows what he's not willing to do (pay any price). Conceives plan accordingly (Lock). You don't have to like it but it's a plan. Again, it's disingenuous to say "if they weren't willing to trade". They made a significant package. At a certain point it's irresponsible and you're mortgaging your future even more.
"Now they have a fanbase and media thinking they're done with the QB". Yeah, bc as soon as tey can do so without cutting off their own leg, they are done with him.
And who gives a flying fuck how the fans and media perceives it? The last 5 years have convinced me most of our fans, or at least the loudest ones, are hovering at a 76 IQ and would struggle with underwater fire prevention.
But I don't accept that how Jones performs this year has no relevance whatsoever to his future with this team.
This is absolutely correct. Joe Schoen has shown he will course correct as he takes in new information.
If Jones plays 17 games and this team is playing meaningful games in December, Jones will almost certainly be the starting QB in 2025.
A top 6 pick was too far out to get their guy in a QB heavy draft, and QBs are not getting less important around the league.
A veteran bridge could make sense depending on how the next 8 months play out but Dak is gonna get paid, I cant see them handing out a QB contract.
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of Dak Prescott being the QB of this team starting in 2025. There is a substantial chance that is the plan to win until they find their guy in the draft, which may be a while if the team improves and is picking outside the top 10.
A top 6 pick was too far out to get their guy in a QB heavy draft, and QBs are not getting less important around the league.
A veteran bridge could make sense depending on how the next 8 months play out but Dak is gonna get paid, I cant see them handing out a QB contract.
If they are done with Jones after 2024, you are either handing out a QB contract or starting the rookie you just picked. Unless their is another injury, they are not cutting Jones and starting a guy like Lock.
I think the first seems much more likely.
But I'm having a hard time believing that this much of the fan base is throwing a hissy fit without thinking.
I guess that's just where men are in our society today.
Say what you want about Jones, he's not an idiot.
And further his representatives are not idiots.
And if you believe this story from Shefter, you'd have to be an idiot.
There is jts no way the Giants would think Jones or anyone in is camp would buy this.
You had better clarify this or people are going to think you are agreeing with Schefter.
You've argued that they were not going to trade up at all, that it was a smokescreen.
very good point. Jim Plunkett syndrome after getting his ass kicked for 8 yrs with the Pats and 49ers.
Oh snap! Narratives just got destroyed.
That was my initial thought
Oof
As for Jones, who cares. He either wins the job and plays well this season or they go QB next year.
I’m excited for the season and we can put the Jones discussion to bed. I think he will play well but I’m sure even if he does some probably will find issue. If he doesn’t play well he will be cut. Middle of the road and he will probably be cut. I just hope people can root for the team to win and not root to be right.
Agreed. Jaworski once called time out because he couldn't find LT, and it turned out he was out of the game having an equipment issued repaired! good times.
Unless Sy has changed his tune from a couple of days ago, that's not what he is saying.
He has argued that the Giants didn't try to trade up, despite what the reporters in Boston, New York, and nationally are saying.
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You had better clarify this or people are going to think you are agreeing with Schefter.
You've argued that they were not going to trade up at all, that it was a smokescreen.
My review will be sent tonight or tomorrow morning!
Sounds like Sy may be suggesting they never tried to trade up. That would seem unlikely with all of that noise around it.
Yeah maybe there will be two Peyton Mannings, two Andrew Lucks, and two John Elways. This way they'll push down some good weapons for Daniel.
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we would all be well served to find something to keep us busy until the new regime arrives.
Sounds like Sy may be suggesting they never tried to trade up. That would seem unlikely with all of that noise around it.
Have you looked at the list of Qb’s for 2025?
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In comment 16499587 j_rud said:
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we would all be well served to find something to keep us busy until the new regime arrives.
Sounds like Sy may be suggesting they never tried to trade up. That would seem unlikely with all of that noise around it.
of course not, they did it to push Nabers or Alt further down. They werent giving up on their guy 6 games after paying him. Did you see the Vikings game? This guy won a road playoff game, Giants did everything they can to try to screw him up.
I think this is written as sarcasm, but I don’t think it is far off from the discussions in the Giants front office.
All we know for sure is that Rich Eisen was wrong. Daniel Jones is still very much the immediate future of this team.
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there are better prospects than Drake Maye in the draft, and they don't cost too much.
Have you looked at the list of Qb’s for 2025?
I have. Which is why I bet we are putting in a call to Dak Prescott to get him in here in 2025 (if Jones gets hurt again). If Jones stays healthy, he will be the plan for 2025 and beyond.
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It was either for Alt, Harrison, or Nabers. No other options.
Unless Sy has changed his tune from a couple of days ago, that's not what he is saying.
He has argued that the Giants didn't try to trade up, despite what the reporters in Boston, New York, and nationally are saying.
Sy specifically said NYG didn't try to trade up for Maye.
I said this in another thread. There is no way Daboll drafted the most explosive player in the draft to take over play calling for a QB who won't attack defenses down field. That was a massive focus in training camp last year as anyone who attended will attest. If there is one thing Drew Lock can and is willing to do, it's throw the ball down field. That is not by accident. If DJ can't or won't bring that element to the game, he won't be the QB of this team. People can talk about the $140M all they want, but we saw what positions the team scouted and we saw them make an aggressive offer to try to move up in the in draft. There is no way Dabs plans to call plays for a QB who won't throw it deep.
Read above. Sy is saying they did not try and trade up for Drake Maye.
Possible. Will be interesting to see now if only two of the 6 first round QBs made the cut.
if the contention is they didnt want maye (in addition to passing on jjm, penix, nix) then much of what we witnessed in the draft process was smoke screen.
which seems highly suspect when the team took 4 players they visited with their first 4 picks,
a year after taking 3 players they visited with their first 3 picks,
and 2 years after taking 2 top 10 guys they visited with their top 2 picks.
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and we saw them make an aggressive offer to try to move up in the in draft. There is no way Dabs plans to call plays for a QB who won't throw it deep.
Read above. Sy is saying they did not try and trade up for Drake Maye.
I see. Well who knows, others have reported otherwise. But regardless, I went to as many camp practices as I could last year, and the focus was by far the vertical passing game. They have spoken about it too. I just don't see any way Dabs takes over the play calling and remains with someone who is scared to throw down field. Either DJ gets on board with it, or they will make a change. I would be very surprised to see it go down any other way.
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I mentioned it last week, it will be interesting to see if Jones and/or his reps have something to say in the aftermath and the realization the Giants tried to replace him.
i posted this in the "Daniel Jones" thread below but man there has to be some tension/awkwardness in the building now. Like jones has to go to work and try to win KNOWING the staff wants to replace him. has to be awkward for coaches too having to coach a guy they know they want to replace.
No different than any other player. Neal knows we are considering our options if he can't cut it, the WRs know we drafted a stud WR, TE, etc. You want to play, earn your spot because every year there are hungry players trying to take it away.
I do hope we see Drew Lock starting, but I would be very surprised if that happens absent a Jones injury (or a cascade of boos from the home fans if he is struggling badly a few weeks in).
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In comment 16499287 JonC said:
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I mentioned it last week, it will be interesting to see if Jones and/or his reps have something to say in the aftermath and the realization the Giants tried to replace him.
i posted this in the "Daniel Jones" thread below but man there has to be some tension/awkwardness in the building now. Like jones has to go to work and try to win KNOWING the staff wants to replace him. has to be awkward for coaches too having to coach a guy they know they want to replace.
No different than any other player. Neal knows we are considering our options if he can't cut it, the WRs know we drafted a stud WR, TE, etc. You want to play, earn your spot because every year there are hungry players trying to take it away.
Unless you are a QB :)
I'm not on the inside - I could be wrong.
But I think the potential trade would have been for Daniels. I also think they wanted MIN to trade up. And lastly - I would believe a trade up for Harrison before Ii would believe a trade up for Maye.
But I also come back to what I think it was the Denver GM reporting about Lock. It's hard to think he outright lied about what Lock said to him about the opportunity here. Lock has to think in some way a door is open for him to start here. He had opportunities to go elsewhere.
I'm not on the inside - I could be wrong.
But I think the potential trade would have been for Daniels. I also think they wanted MIN to trade up. And lastly - I would believe a trade up for Harrison before Ii would believe a trade up for Maye.
thank you for clarifying - from schoen's comments i agree MHJ was likely their #1 WR.
i think they would have traded up for maye and i also think maye was the better prospect by a good margin because MIN too wanted to trade up for maye even though they ended up being extremely conservative in the need to trade up for JJM.
Charlie Weiss made this point on NFLR today, he doesn't believe anything that comes out before the draft but he usually does believe what comes out after.
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But I don't accept that how Jones performs this year has no relevance whatsoever to his future with this team.
Agree completely. Jones was gone after they did not pick up the 5th year option, until he played himself into a big contract in his fourth year. Lousy season last year and he's gone again. I think if he plays well this year with more weapons and a better OL then the Giants could easily decide to ride this kid for another year while continuing to fill holes elsewhere. If he plays poorly or gets injured again then there is no choice but to move on.
Thanks for the update, Sy. There is always some speculation involved and I think we all understand that.
Continued appreciation for everything you add to this site.
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It was either for Alt, Harrison, or Nabers. No other options.
Unless Sy has changed his tune from a couple of days ago, that's not what he is saying.
He has argued that the Giants didn't try to trade up, despite what the reporters in Boston, New York, and nationally are saying.
That has crossed my mind - make a big show about trying to move up to appease the fanbase, but don't actually do it.
Daniel Jones is the starting QB of this team . Just ask Drew Lock
Next year is a long time away with a million possibilities and nothing guaranteed
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In comment 16499563 Mike from Ohio said:
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It was either for Alt, Harrison, or Nabers. No other options.
Unless Sy has changed his tune from a couple of days ago, that's not what he is saying.
He has argued that the Giants didn't try to trade up, despite what the reporters in Boston, New York, and nationally are saying.
That has crossed my mind - make a big show about trying to move up to appease the fanbase, but don't actually do it.
I doubt they made a bunch of noise to piss off their QB with the hope of appeasing a fan base.
"Hey Daniel. Don't believe the rumors you are going to hear about us trying to get another QB. We are just doing that to make the fans happy because they so desperately want to replace you. But we love you..."
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thinks they made the decision on no QB this year prior to the draft anyway.
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From a numbers standpoint this makes sense. Signing Jones to that albatross of a contract only to replace him the following year while still owing him at least 70 million over the next two seasons is a surefire way to get fired unless you feel like you have a surefire pick at an elite QB on your hands. This approach buys them more time in Mara's eyes.
[quote] of Dak Prescott being the QB of this team starting in 2025. There is a substantial chance that is the plan to win until they find their guy in the draft, which may be a while if the team improves and is picking outside the top 10.
A top 6 pick was too far out to get their guy in a QB heavy draft, and QBs are not getting less important around the league. [/quote
Are you serious? Why would we want Dak? So overrated. He has had the luxury of great supporting cast since he joined the team.
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In comment 16499567 Eric from BBI said:
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In comment 16499563 Mike from Ohio said:
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It was either for Alt, Harrison, or Nabers. No other options.
Unless Sy has changed his tune from a couple of days ago, that's not what he is saying.
He has argued that the Giants didn't try to trade up, despite what the reporters in Boston, New York, and nationally are saying.
That has crossed my mind - make a big show about trying to move up to appease the fanbase, but don't actually do it.
I doubt they made a bunch of noise to piss off their QB with the hope of appeasing a fan base.
"Hey Daniel. Don't believe the rumors you are going to hear about us trying to get another QB. We are just doing that to make the fans happy because they so desperately want to replace you. But we love you..."
They were looking for a guy they had complete conviction in to stake their futures on it. Those guys weren't available and they didn't want to take the chance on anyone else, even on Maye. Sounds like they could have had Maye if they really wanted, but they didn't feel like the numbers made sense for the likelihood of Maye becoming an elite qb.
I do think they are a step ahead of ALL members of the media and those guys easily believe everything that is fed to them. Some of the longtime connections they have to NYG no longer have the insider-info they used to.
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In comment 16499651 Sy'56 said:
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thinks they made the decision on no QB this year prior to the draft anyway.
✅
From a numbers standpoint this makes sense. Signing Jones to that albatross of a contract only to replace him the following year while still owing him at least 70 million over the next two seasons is a surefire way to get fired unless you feel like you have a surefire pick at an elite QB on your hands. This approach buys them more time in Mara's eyes.
That would not surprise me at all. They gave him two years on the contract so I would not be surprised if Mara told them you need to give him the full two years. Drafting a QB in the first means they only really gave him one before they made the decision to move on.
As I said before the draft, Schefter seems to be losing his mojo.
He is talking out of his ass. He can make these statements and nobody who knows the truth will ever refute it.
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In comment 16499660 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16499651 Sy'56 said:
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thinks they made the decision on no QB this year prior to the draft anyway.
✅
From a numbers standpoint this makes sense. Signing Jones to that albatross of a contract only to replace him the following year while still owing him at least 70 million over the next two seasons is a surefire way to get fired unless you feel like you have a surefire pick at an elite QB on your hands. This approach buys them more time in Mara's eyes.
That would not surprise me at all. They gave him two years on the contract so I would not be surprised if Mara told them you need to give him the full two years. Drafting a QB in the first means they only really gave him one before they made the decision to move on.
This is the most logical reasoning for not trading the farm for a QB and passing up on 3 other top 12 qb draft picks.
I do think they are a step ahead of ALL members of the media and those guys easily believe everything that is fed to them. Some of the longtime connections they have to NYG no longer have the insider-info they used to.
I agree with you, the only were going QB if they could get one for little to no more than pick 6 while still fully believing the QB could succeed as a franchise qb. They likely tried to trade something like pick 6, 70, and 2025 2nd for pick 3 (this is traditional trade chart value).
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In comment 16499677 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16499660 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16499651 Sy'56 said:
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thinks they made the decision on no QB this year prior to the draft anyway.
✅
From a numbers standpoint this makes sense. Signing Jones to that albatross of a contract only to replace him the following year while still owing him at least 70 million over the next two seasons is a surefire way to get fired unless you feel like you have a surefire pick at an elite QB on your hands. This approach buys them more time in Mara's eyes.
That would not surprise me at all. They gave him two years on the contract so I would not be surprised if Mara told them you need to give him the full two years. Drafting a QB in the first means they only really gave him one before they made the decision to move on.
This is the most logical reasoning for not trading the farm for a QB and passing up on 3 other top 12 qb draft picks.
Just because 3 other QB's were drafted in the Top 12 does not mean that the Giants had them rated highly. Teams thought guys like Cade McNown, Blaine Gabbert, Josh Rosen, Christian Ponder, etc. were worthy of being taken that high and look how they turned out.
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In comment 16499687 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 16499677 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16499660 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16499651 Sy'56 said:
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thinks they made the decision on no QB this year prior to the draft anyway.
✅
From a numbers standpoint this makes sense. Signing Jones to that albatross of a contract only to replace him the following year while still owing him at least 70 million over the next two seasons is a surefire way to get fired unless you feel like you have a surefire pick at an elite QB on your hands. This approach buys them more time in Mara's eyes.
That would not surprise me at all. They gave him two years on the contract so I would not be surprised if Mara told them you need to give him the full two years. Drafting a QB in the first means they only really gave him one before they made the decision to move on.
This is the most logical reasoning for not trading the farm for a QB and passing up on 3 other top 12 qb draft picks.
Just because 3 other QB's were drafted in the Top 12 does not mean that the Giants had them rated highly. Teams thought guys like Cade McNown, Blaine Gabbert, Josh Rosen, Christian Ponder, etc. were worthy of being taken that high and look how they turned out.
Did you read what I said in in the first post? I folded it for you, I said they needed to feel utmost conviction in the guy otherwise they are risking their careers drafting a new qb after signing DJ--whom is beloved by Mara--just last year to a big contract and still owing him 70 million minimum over the next 2 years.
I do think they are a step ahead of ALL members of the media and those guys easily believe everything that is fed to them. Some of the longtime connections they have to NYG no longer have the insider-info they used to.
This is undoubtedly true.
However, the Boston reporters were certainly reporting the same thing from their end. New England was clearly shopping the pick and didn't publicly say they were staying put until Thursday (when Mayo made his comments to the fans before the draft).
And most importantly, Schoen and Daboll's public commitment to Jones bordered on a hostage video. Daniel also didn't look like a guy who thought his job was safe when the offseason program presser was held (also had hostage video vibes).
Everyone and their grandmother mocked Nabers to the Giants before the draft. That wasn't a surprise at all. What surprised the media was the realization that the Giants were REALLY trying to get Maye (and may actually take McCarthy). Their tone changed in the last two weeks when that dawned on them.
Every action suggest the Giants thought Maye was the only one within possible reach of landing that was worthy of selection. When he (and the other two) were off the board, they pivoted.
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In comment 16499721 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16499687 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 16499677 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16499660 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16499651 Sy'56 said:
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thinks they made the decision on no QB this year prior to the draft anyway.
✅
From a numbers standpoint this makes sense. Signing Jones to that albatross of a contract only to replace him the following year while still owing him at least 70 million over the next two seasons is a surefire way to get fired unless you feel like you have a surefire pick at an elite QB on your hands. This approach buys them more time in Mara's eyes.
That would not surprise me at all. They gave him two years on the contract so I would not be surprised if Mara told them you need to give him the full two years. Drafting a QB in the first means they only really gave him one before they made the decision to move on.
This is the most logical reasoning for not trading the farm for a QB and passing up on 3 other top 12 qb draft picks.
Just because 3 other QB's were drafted in the Top 12 does not mean that the Giants had them rated highly. Teams thought guys like Cade McNown, Blaine Gabbert, Josh Rosen, Christian Ponder, etc. were worthy of being taken that high and look how they turned out.
Did you read what I said in in the first post? I folded it for you, I said they needed to feel utmost conviction in the guy otherwise they are risking their careers drafting a new qb after signing DJ--whom is beloved by Mara--just last year to a big contract and still owing him 70 million minimum over the next 2 years.
I saw that. I was also objecting to classifying the other 3 as "top 12 QB draft picks" just because they were drafted there. That makes it seem like they will all justify that selection which history tells us is not the case.
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In comment 16499732 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 16499721 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16499687 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 16499677 BleedBlue46 said:
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In comment 16499660 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16499651 Sy'56 said:
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thinks they made the decision on no QB this year prior to the draft anyway.
✅
From a numbers standpoint this makes sense. Signing Jones to that albatross of a contract only to replace him the following year while still owing him at least 70 million over the next two seasons is a surefire way to get fired unless you feel like you have a surefire pick at an elite QB on your hands. This approach buys them more time in Mara's eyes.
That would not surprise me at all. They gave him two years on the contract so I would not be surprised if Mara told them you need to give him the full two years. Drafting a QB in the first means they only really gave him one before they made the decision to move on.
This is the most logical reasoning for not trading the farm for a QB and passing up on 3 other top 12 qb draft picks.
Just because 3 other QB's were drafted in the Top 12 does not mean that the Giants had them rated highly. Teams thought guys like Cade McNown, Blaine Gabbert, Josh Rosen, Christian Ponder, etc. were worthy of being taken that high and look how they turned out.
Did you read what I said in in the first post? I folded it for you, I said they needed to feel utmost conviction in the guy otherwise they are risking their careers drafting a new qb after signing DJ--whom is beloved by Mara--just last year to a big contract and still owing him 70 million minimum over the next 2 years.
I saw that. I was also objecting to classifying the other 3 as "top 12 QB draft picks" just because they were drafted there. That makes it seem like they will all justify that selection which history tells us is not the case.
No I was just saying they were all picked in the top 12. If we hadn't signed DJ to that contract and he was franchise tagged, I bet we take one of those QBs or put more on the table to get Maye. That was my point. Mara wanted DJ here long term though, he said so himself. Franchise tagging him was never an option.
I'm very curious to see how this is handled.
Get ready for a lot of fake posturing by all parties during the press conferences this year (similar to the Daboll/Wink pressers).
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The amount of people inside the building that actually know what Schoen is thinking is minuscule. Very different that previous regimes.
I do think they are a step ahead of ALL members of the media and those guys easily believe everything that is fed to them. Some of the longtime connections they have to NYG no longer have the insider-info they used to.
This is undoubtedly true.
However, the Boston reporters were certainly reporting the same thing from their end. New England was clearly shopping the pick and didn't publicly say they were staying put until Thursday (when Mayo made his comments to the fans before the draft).
And most importantly, Schoen and Daboll's public commitment to Jones bordered on a hostage video. Daniel also didn't look like a guy who thought his job was safe when the offseason program presser was held (also had hostage video vibes).
Everyone and their grandmother mocked Nabers to the Giants before the draft. That wasn't a surprise at all. What surprised the media was the realization that the Giants were REALLY trying to get Maye (and may actually take McCarthy). Their tone changed in the last two weeks when that dawned on them.
Every action suggest the Giants thought Maye was the only one within possible reach of landing that was worthy of selection. When he (and the other two) were off the board, they pivoted.
Also, let's not forget the Seattle GM who said this of NYG to Lock: “basically sold him on the opportunity to compete to be the starter.” I know Lock himself refuted it publicly, but are we to believe the Seattle GM was lying?
This is all out there making the situation extremely uncomfortable.
What if Mara was the one leaking rumors about imminent trade ups for Maye while telling DJ he might hear about rumors, but not to worry because we won't take a QB? There's a conspiracy theory for ya!
Nabers would get irritated when Daniels didn't use him enough.
Pretty big change in talent going to Jones.
Sometimes the first reply is the best.
Eh, that quote was taken out of context.
That said, do I think there’s a good chance Nabers voices his frustration this fall if Jones back there & not producing? 100%.
Ah, this makes a lot of sense.
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Great vibes.
Eh, that quote was taken out of context.
That said, do I think there’s a good chance Nabers voices his frustration this fall if Jones back there & not producing? 100%.
Every top WR thinks they can make the offense go if you get the ball in their hands. Do you want a guy who says “I know the offense is struggling, so what, eventually it will get figured out”?
"The Giants were definitely not looking to replace Jones."
If that was a smokescreen, they kept it up for months.
I think Schefter is completely out to lunch here.
Interestingly, Kollman said matter-of-factly on another YouTube draft review for all teams that "everyone knows that Giants ownership was behind Jones' contract."
Context: He was discussing with the host that he found it fascinating that Schoen/Daboll did not draft a QB to save their own necks. He speculates they have been told their jobs are safe this year because they didn't.
Take it easy Eeyore
If they didn't add pick 47, then it wasn't a serious offer.
If that was a smokescreen, they kept it up for months.
2025 1st and 3rd isn't really a serious offer, that's a low ball offer.
Context: He was discussing with the host that he found it fascinating that Schoen/Daboll did not draft a QB to save their own necks. He speculates they have been told their jobs are safe this year because they didn't.
I totally agree with this conclusion. They looked very relaxed at their post-draft presser.
Sure, they didn't get the more talented, big southern white guy. But they kept their hardworking, smart, team first southern white guy. Therefore, still a lot of boxes checked... ;)
& I don't think the Pats ever really entertained an offer to move off of 3. That's just my take. It sucks, but it is what it is. What can Joe do if the team doesn't want to trade back? Absolutely nothing.
I am excited.
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had been saying for 2 months that the Giants wanted the #3 pick. Once the negotiations progressed, it was obvious that the Giants wanted Maye. They were ready to give up a #1 in 2025 and a #3 in 2025 to get him. I was told after the fact that they sweetened the deal, but the Pats were told by Kraft to take the QB.
If that was a smokescreen, they kept it up for months.
2025 1st and 3rd isn't really a serious offer, that's a low ball offer.
Nonsense, it was 3 spots not 9.
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In comment 16499819 dd in Mass said:
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had been saying for 2 months that the Giants wanted the #3 pick. Once the negotiations progressed, it was obvious that the Giants wanted Maye. They were ready to give up a #1 in 2025 and a #3 in 2025 to get him. I was told after the fact that they sweetened the deal, but the Pats were told by Kraft to take the QB.
If that was a smokescreen, they kept it up for months.
2025 1st and 3rd isn't really a serious offer, that's a low ball offer.
Nonsense, it was 3 spots not 9.
The Patriots would never have considered accepting it without pick 47 and the 2025 1st.
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In comment 16499819 dd in Mass said:
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had been saying for 2 months that the Giants wanted the #3 pick. Once the negotiations progressed, it was obvious that the Giants wanted Maye. They were ready to give up a #1 in 2025 and a #3 in 2025 to get him. I was told after the fact that they sweetened the deal, but the Pats were told by Kraft to take the QB.
If that was a smokescreen, they kept it up for months.
2025 1st and 3rd isn't really a serious offer, that's a low ball offer.
Nonsense, it was 3 spots not 9.
Whether they offered 47 and 2025 1st or not, I'm glad they didn't make the trade for Maye as I think it would have been a mistake that set us back severely. I just think 2025 1st and 3rd is a lowball offer personally and I don't think they wanted to make serious offers if that's all they offered.
Also why do we need the kid gloves for Daniel's feelings?
"The goal of the draft is to build the Giants into a SB winning team. Every player at every position has to earn his spot on the roster and in the lineup. Everyone in this building is a competitor. We compete at every position."
Just like I don't believe Florio's report that MIN was trying to trade up for Nabers,
Floating rumors to the press to appease your QB because you failed to replace him, then gave him a lucrative contract, and then failed to replace him again.
The Coach saying he expects his defensive coordinator back after having a screaming match with him before he ran away from home like a 10 year old before mutually agreeing to part ways.
Maybe there is some evidence that this organization is a bit dysfunctional?
Floating rumors to the press to appease your QB because you failed to replace him, then gave him a lucrative contract, and then failed to replace him again.
The Coach saying he expects his defensive coordinator back after having a screaming match with him before he ran away from home like a 10 year old before mutually agreeing to part ways.
Don’t forget floating your OC is going to leave and then for “Optics” because you lost so many other coaches, you deny him to leave and “promote” him with a fancy new title and pay increase but will strip him of play calling duties, presumably when enough time has passed that it doesn’t look bad.
Maybe there is some evidence that this organization is a bit dysfunctional?
Get a fuckin life man.
I love you dearly, but nobody puts that much effort into scouting QBs, putting them on the 30 list, scouting several games each to just use it as a smoke screen.
It may very well be in the end, they decided there were far too many flaws in all but Williams and Daniels to justify drafting, but they weren't pretend scouting and interviewing for their health.
I do think they are a step ahead of ALL members of the media and those guys easily believe everything that is fed to them. Some of the longtime connections they have to NYG no longer have the insider-info they used to.