Could DJ join this list? Anything is possible. Some quarterbacks just have it click a bit later due to various factors (supporting cast, confidence, processing, etc.)
"late bloomers". Alex Smith had good years in SF, and Mayfield was decent in Cleveland. A lot of the others were one-hit wonders.
Jones will get his chance this year. If he's ever going to do it, it will be now.
Alex Smith was awful first year, below average the next two, then he missed a year, then 4 average years, and he had his first season with over 20 tds in year 9. Mayfield was decent, but really broke out this past year.
By many important metrics Mayfield was better in 2020 than he was in 2023. Higher QBR, QB Rating, Y/A, TD%, INT%
"late bloomers". Alex Smith had good years in SF, and Mayfield was decent in Cleveland. A lot of the others were one-hit wonders.
Jones will get his chance this year. If he's ever going to do it, it will be now.
Alex Smith was awful first year, below average the next two, then he missed a year, then 4 average years, and he had his first season with over 20 tds in year 9. Mayfield was decent, but really broke out this past year.
By many important metrics Mayfield was better in 2020 than he was in 2023. Higher QBR, QB Rating, Y/A, TD%, INT%
Agreed, many of these guys can't be compared to Jones. Alex Smith is the closest example I think. He didn't have over 20 tds until year 9. And he was only good at best, never special or elite. That's probably the best we can possibly hope for with DJ.
An argument can be made he's as good as a number of the guys on that list. Who knows with how the injuries impact him but the list contains a lot of bridge/game manager types.
On him being a "franchise QB" of any magnitude. The only guy on that list that made the jump from journeyman starter to All Pro level production was Rich Gannon and that was over two decades ago. Not counting Hasselback because he never had the opportunity to be a full time starter until well into his career.
An argument can be made he's as good as a number of the guys on that list. Who knows with how the injuries impact him but the list contains a lot of bridge/game manager types.
In 2022 DJ was there, but some of these guys won superbowls and threw for over 20 tds with a good ypa when the NFL was much less pass friendly. That's all we can hope for DJ. The equivalent of that in modern football would be 25-30 tds with 10ints and 4000 yards.
On him being a "franchise QB" of any magnitude. The only guy on that list that made the jump from journeyman starter to All Pro level production was Rich Gannon and that was over two decades ago. Not counting Hasselback because he never had the opportunity to be a full time starter until well into his career.
Agreed, if anything this list shows what the best we can hope for is like: a solid qb that could win and get playoff wins even, not elite or great.
but Trent Dilfer? Do you mean the same Trent Dilfer that Baltimore replaced after the Super Bowl with Elvis Grbac? That Trent Dilfer? He was not a late bloomer. He sucked.
but Trent Dilfer? Do you mean the same Trent Dilfer that Baltimore replaced after the Super Bowl with Elvis Grbac? That Trent Dilfer? He was not a late bloomer. He sucked.
Some guys bloom like a dandelion; some bloom like an orchid. We have a dandelion I think. He could still bloom though.
but Trent Dilfer? Do you mean the same Trent Dilfer that Baltimore replaced after the Super Bowl with Elvis Grbac? That Trent Dilfer? He was not a late bloomer. He sucked.
Trent dilfer was awful outside of 2 seasons when he was solid, not good or great. On that note, I agree. This is likely what we can hope for out of DJ: an Alex Smith.
"late bloomers". Alex Smith had good years in SF, and Mayfield was decent in Cleveland. A lot of the others were one-hit wonders.
Jones will get his chance this year. If he's ever going to do it, it will be now.
Alex Smith was awful first year, below average the next two, then he missed a year, then 4 average years, and he had his first season with over 20 tds in year 9. Mayfield was decent, but really broke out this past year.
Alex Smith "bloomed" to be an average starter.
Baker is about the same.
But with DJ, the answer is almost assuredly no, and the reason is because where he is deficient, those things usually do not significantly improve. A lot of it has to do with his football instincts for the position, that are just not there.
Pocket awareness/feel, seeing the field and making optimal decisions quickly based on what you're seeing...
It's hard to improve on not seeing your receivers and slow processing.
never saw most of the qb's on that list play. A lot of them were from the pre-rules changes, pre-free agent era when it was common for teams to hang on to good players just in case. There were "late bloomers" because they were backups and had to wait for the starter to get hurt to get their chance.
Alex Smith was a very accurate passer and could read defenses, find the open man and throw with anticipation. He could make all the throws- all skills that have eluded our hero.
The comparison with Simms is ridiculous. Phil had a cannon for an arm, was an accurate passer and could make all the throws. (BigBlue VCR has been featuring Simms on X. You want to see what a big time passer looks like- watch) He was head and shoulders the best qb on the roster when he came in and it is a shame he was robbed of 2 1/2 seasons due to injuries. Oh yeah and his HC liked to run and play defense, not throw the ball. Jones couldn't carry Simms' jockstrap, and it's not close.
"late bloomers". Alex Smith had good years in SF, and Mayfield was decent in Cleveland. A lot of the others were one-hit wonders.
Jones will get his chance this year. If he's ever going to do it, it will be now.
Alex Smith was awful first year, below average the next two, then he missed a year, then 4 average years, and he had his first season with over 20 tds in year 9. Mayfield was decent, but really broke out this past year.
Alex Smith "bloomed" to be an average starter.
Baker is about the same.
But with DJ, the answer is almost assuredly no, and the reason is because where he is deficient, those things usually do not significantly improve. A lot of it has to do with his football instincts for the position, that are just not there.
Pocket awareness/feel, seeing the field and making optimal decisions quickly based on what you're seeing...
It's hard to improve on not seeing your receivers and slow processing.
Yeah, that's my fear as well. It's very easy to defend against a guy like Jones especially without Saquon. All we can do is hope he figures it out. On the bright side, we will have another high draft choice with little to no competition for QB high in the 2025 draft if he fails.
I think it's safe to say he has had a snakebit career
with the Giants. To repeat what has been observed over and over -- Bad to very bad OL throughout, spotty receivers group, little running game, injuries. Some of the injuries may have been due to being constantly under siege.
Also, the pressure of playing in front of the New York media and social media whirl.
Can he have a successful second act? Maybe, but if so, probably not here. Maybe he can have some luck and success with another team, like Tannehill, or Geno Smith, etc.
Personally, I wish him well as he moves on, and don't blame him entirely for last year's shit show -- that was a total failure across the board: management, coaching, players. Not fair to say it was Jones alone who caused the Giants to get crushed by Dallas, SF, Miami, etc.
(I usually don't join in the DJ threads, as there's not much new to say at this point.)
IF he's healthy physically ??? and mentally and i think he is... this team is going to be a tough out. Fans need to give it time.. IMO this season is going to be what everyone was expecting last year.. Joe gets it, Dabs too, Danny Dimes as well.
That RB they added is interesting too -
RE: I think it's safe to say he has had a snakebit career
with the Giants. To repeat what has been observed over and over -- Bad to very bad OL throughout, spotty receivers group, little running game, injuries. Some of the injuries may have been due to being constantly under siege.
Also, the pressure of playing in front of the New York media and social media whirl.
Can he have a successful second act? Maybe, but if so, probably not here. Maybe he can have some luck and success with another team, like Tannehill, or Geno Smith, etc.
Personally, I wish him well as he moves on, and don't blame him entirely for last year's shit show -- that was a total failure across the board: management, coaching, players. Not fair to say it was Jones alone who caused the Giants to get crushed by Dallas, SF, Miami, etc.
(I usually don't join in the DJ threads, as there's not much new to say at this point.)
Lets see how he looks mentally, i think the physicaly should be ok especially with new line and wrs that can get open. Bc if hes all good comfortable and focused. big year.. Can he get comfortable back there is the question.. NEver saw a QB play good QB when uncomfortable... Key to the season
with the Giants. To repeat what has been observed over and over -- Bad to very bad OL throughout, spotty receivers group, little running game, injuries. Some of the injuries may have been due to being constantly under siege.
Also, the pressure of playing in front of the New York media and social media whirl.
Can he have a successful second act? Maybe, but if so, probably not here. Maybe he can have some luck and success with another team, like Tannehill, or Geno Smith, etc.
Personally, I wish him well as he moves on, and don't blame him entirely for last year's shit show -- that was a total failure across the board: management, coaching, players. Not fair to say it was Jones alone who caused the Giants to get crushed by Dallas, SF, Miami, etc.
(I usually don't join in the DJ threads, as there's not much new to say at this point.)
I agree with this. I worry his internal clock is broken; he hears footsteps; he never had a quick mind in the pocket and now it's worse than ever; he's scared of everything: the pass rush, turnovers, missing big plays, the media backlash, the disappointment.
Some did. Alex Smith is likely the best we can hope for currently from that list. The other guys were bad or turned it on as soon as they had a real chance like Delhomme.
One interesting name on that list was Kerry Collins. Never thought of as a top 5 QB but was an above average starter and knocking on the door of being a top 10 QB. I wonder if a Dak Prescott UFA signing would have a Kerry Collins type of impact on the team.
A lot of those didn't play the beginning of their career such as Romo. He didn't play until his 3rd season and was good right away and threw 36tds in his 4th year and 2nd year playing.
Jones has played and been a starter for 5 full seasons/ 60 games. There really isn't a case I know of where a player got this long of an opportunity while not being good. Maybe he puts it all together his 6th season, but that is incredibly rare in sports in general.
Could he have a ‘good’ season? Yes, if the OL plays significantly better and if he stays healthy. He has better weapons now and third year in this offense.
Do I think he’ll have a ‘good’ year? No, coming off ACL and with the pressure on him, I think it’s a longshot. I believe his days as our starting QB will be very few; don’t think he’ll be starting by year end either due to injury or performance.
A lot of those didn't play the beginning of their career such as Romo. He didn't play until his 3rd season and was good right away and threw 36tds in his 4th year and 2nd year playing.
Jones has played and been a starter for 5 full seasons/ 60 games. There really isn't a case I know of where a player got this long of an opportunity while not being good. Maybe he puts it all together his 6th season, but that is incredibly rare in sports in general.
Yeah Alex Smith is the closest potential comparison on the list, I've concluded that's likely our best hope. Smith was good at reading defenses and making decisions if I remember correctly though?
and that is not gonna change . He does not see the field and he cannot read the defense . He can probably do calculus and trigonometry but his football IQ is in the special needs range .
A lot of those didn't play the beginning of their career such as Romo. He didn't play until his 3rd season and was good right away and threw 36tds in his 4th year and 2nd year playing.
Jones has played and been a starter for 5 full seasons/ 60 games. There really isn't a case I know of where a player got this long of an opportunity while not being good. Maybe he puts it all together his 6th season, but that is incredibly rare in sports in general.
Yeah Alex Smith is the closest potential comparison on the list, I've concluded that's likely our best hope. Smith was good at reading defenses and making decisions if I remember correctly though?
Did you watch the Giants 49ers NFC Championship game?
A lot of those didn't play the beginning of their career such as Romo. He didn't play until his 3rd season and was good right away and threw 36tds in his 4th year and 2nd year playing.
Jones has played and been a starter for 5 full seasons/ 60 games. There really isn't a case I know of where a player got this long of an opportunity while not being good. Maybe he puts it all together his 6th season, but that is incredibly rare in sports in general.
Yeah Alex Smith is the closest potential comparison on the list, I've concluded that's likely our best hope. Smith was good at reading defenses and making decisions if I remember correctly though?
Did you watch the Giants 49ers NFC Championship game?
Of course, you're right. DJ could be our Alex Smith!
that Jones can string together consecutive good seasons. We can't just say one good year means he's on his way.
When framed that way, who the hell would bet Jones can be available and be good for consecutive years?
Well, his rookie year was good and what gives the DJ cult their MOJO I think. Then 2022, first playoff win in 10 years added to their think-tank. So he has had 2 above average years and 3 bad/injury plagued. A good year would go a long way. He will need to learn to be more of a pocket passer and not use his legs too much.
No, this is the historical comparative correlation we have for Jones though. I don't think he's going to be a gold jacket guy unfortunately. He could bloom into an Alex Smith type though. That's likely the most we could hope for I think.
It's a list of QBs that have very little in common with each other.
Some of them like Romo didn't play at all and then became good when he got a chance. Some, like Fiedler, just had a random decent season when he somehow got a starting job. Geno Smith is a legit late bloomer - he was terrible when young and really surprised everyone by being pretty good.
Brees didn't throw for more than 3600 yards before he turned 27 years old. Injury concerns. One playoff appearance, a loss. San Diego gave up on him.
The fan base that has been incessantly whining about Jones being picked 6OA has to stop pretending he has shown nothing in his career. He has shown plenty of promise amidst the junk he's had to deal with here. I think he's going to show a lot more and Schoen/Daboll/non-haters will be vindicated for their belief in him. I have full confidence in DJ getting healthy and being a part of a winning solution for this franchise.
but Trent Dilfer? Do you mean the same Trent Dilfer that Baltimore replaced after the Super Bowl with Elvis Grbac? That Trent Dilfer? He was not a late bloomer. He sucked.
Some guys bloom like a dandelion; some bloom like an orchid. We have a dandelion I think. He could still bloom though.
Wow. I'm thinking more about the tropical plant that only blooms something like once a decade, and when it does the huge flower gives off a terrible smell of rotten meat, which the plant uses to attract and trap flies to eat them....
Jones showed genuine improvement at the end of 2022
Then completely regressed in 2023. And 2023 wasn’t just against great defenses like the 49ers. The Dolphins and Seahawks had average to below average defenses and Jones sucked in those games.
Given this background, why would anyone be optimistic about Jones emerging?
Jones best season was 2022, and he was slightly better than average. He is now going to enter his 6th season after suffering a potentially career ending ACL injury, with an on-going neck issue. He is a running QB with terrible accuracy in his air game, and the opponents will be targeting his knees. This will be another failed season by the future former QB of the New York Football Giants.
Behind a much different O line.
Also, Simms' first quality year was year 6.
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"late bloomers". Alex Smith had good years in SF, and Mayfield was decent in Cleveland. A lot of the others were one-hit wonders.
Jones will get his chance this year. If he's ever going to do it, it will be now.
Alex Smith was awful first year, below average the next two, then he missed a year, then 4 average years, and he had his first season with over 20 tds in year 9. Mayfield was decent, but really broke out this past year.
By many important metrics Mayfield was better in 2020 than he was in 2023. Higher QBR, QB Rating, Y/A, TD%, INT%
I looked through most of them and Alex Smith is the best potential comparison I think.
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In comment 16499591 Section331 said:
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"late bloomers". Alex Smith had good years in SF, and Mayfield was decent in Cleveland. A lot of the others were one-hit wonders.
Jones will get his chance this year. If he's ever going to do it, it will be now.
Alex Smith was awful first year, below average the next two, then he missed a year, then 4 average years, and he had his first season with over 20 tds in year 9. Mayfield was decent, but really broke out this past year.
By many important metrics Mayfield was better in 2020 than he was in 2023. Higher QBR, QB Rating, Y/A, TD%, INT%
Agreed, many of these guys can't be compared to Jones. Alex Smith is the closest example I think. He didn't have over 20 tds until year 9. And he was only good at best, never special or elite. That's probably the best we can possibly hope for with DJ.
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After seeing the corpse of Tyrod Taylor and a rookie UDFA look more productive in the same offense.
Behind a much different O line.
Also, Simms' first quality year was year 6.
Yeah, below average QBs have blossomed into solid ones, never elite but solid enough to win and potentially get the big one is good enough.
In 2022 DJ was there, but some of these guys won superbowls and threw for over 20 tds with a good ypa when the NFL was much less pass friendly. That's all we can hope for DJ. The equivalent of that in modern football would be 25-30 tds with 10ints and 4000 yards.
Agreed, if anything this list shows what the best we can hope for is like: a solid qb that could win and get playoff wins even, not elite or great.
Some guys bloom like a dandelion; some bloom like an orchid. We have a dandelion I think. He could still bloom though.
Trent dilfer was awful outside of 2 seasons when he was solid, not good or great. On that note, I agree. This is likely what we can hope for out of DJ: an Alex Smith.
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"late bloomers". Alex Smith had good years in SF, and Mayfield was decent in Cleveland. A lot of the others were one-hit wonders.
Jones will get his chance this year. If he's ever going to do it, it will be now.
Alex Smith was awful first year, below average the next two, then he missed a year, then 4 average years, and he had his first season with over 20 tds in year 9. Mayfield was decent, but really broke out this past year.
Alex Smith "bloomed" to be an average starter.
Baker is about the same.
But with DJ, the answer is almost assuredly no, and the reason is because where he is deficient, those things usually do not significantly improve. A lot of it has to do with his football instincts for the position, that are just not there.
Pocket awareness/feel, seeing the field and making optimal decisions quickly based on what you're seeing...
It's hard to improve on not seeing your receivers and slow processing.
Alex Smith was a very accurate passer and could read defenses, find the open man and throw with anticipation. He could make all the throws- all skills that have eluded our hero.
The comparison with Simms is ridiculous. Phil had a cannon for an arm, was an accurate passer and could make all the throws. (BigBlue VCR has been featuring Simms on X. You want to see what a big time passer looks like- watch) He was head and shoulders the best qb on the roster when he came in and it is a shame he was robbed of 2 1/2 seasons due to injuries. Oh yeah and his HC liked to run and play defense, not throw the ball. Jones couldn't carry Simms' jockstrap, and it's not close.
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In comment 16499591 Section331 said:
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"late bloomers". Alex Smith had good years in SF, and Mayfield was decent in Cleveland. A lot of the others were one-hit wonders.
Jones will get his chance this year. If he's ever going to do it, it will be now.
Alex Smith was awful first year, below average the next two, then he missed a year, then 4 average years, and he had his first season with over 20 tds in year 9. Mayfield was decent, but really broke out this past year.
Alex Smith "bloomed" to be an average starter.
Baker is about the same.
But with DJ, the answer is almost assuredly no, and the reason is because where he is deficient, those things usually do not significantly improve. A lot of it has to do with his football instincts for the position, that are just not there.
Pocket awareness/feel, seeing the field and making optimal decisions quickly based on what you're seeing...
It's hard to improve on not seeing your receivers and slow processing.
Yeah, that's my fear as well. It's very easy to defend against a guy like Jones especially without Saquon. All we can do is hope he figures it out. On the bright side, we will have another high draft choice with little to no competition for QB high in the 2025 draft if he fails.
Also, the pressure of playing in front of the New York media and social media whirl.
Can he have a successful second act? Maybe, but if so, probably not here. Maybe he can have some luck and success with another team, like Tannehill, or Geno Smith, etc.
Personally, I wish him well as he moves on, and don't blame him entirely for last year's shit show -- that was a total failure across the board: management, coaching, players. Not fair to say it was Jones alone who caused the Giants to get crushed by Dallas, SF, Miami, etc.
(I usually don't join in the DJ threads, as there's not much new to say at this point.)
That RB they added is interesting too -
Also, the pressure of playing in front of the New York media and social media whirl.
Can he have a successful second act? Maybe, but if so, probably not here. Maybe he can have some luck and success with another team, like Tannehill, or Geno Smith, etc.
Personally, I wish him well as he moves on, and don't blame him entirely for last year's shit show -- that was a total failure across the board: management, coaching, players. Not fair to say it was Jones alone who caused the Giants to get crushed by Dallas, SF, Miami, etc.
(I usually don't join in the DJ threads, as there's not much new to say at this point.)
Lets see how he looks mentally, i think the physicaly should be ok especially with new line and wrs that can get open. Bc if hes all good comfortable and focused. big year.. Can he get comfortable back there is the question.. NEver saw a QB play good QB when uncomfortable... Key to the season
And really, today, Romo is probably the only one that I would consider signing.
And really, today, Romo is probably the only one that I would consider signing.
It is not promising. We are looking at Alex Smith in the best case scenario most likely.
Also, the pressure of playing in front of the New York media and social media whirl.
Can he have a successful second act? Maybe, but if so, probably not here. Maybe he can have some luck and success with another team, like Tannehill, or Geno Smith, etc.
Personally, I wish him well as he moves on, and don't blame him entirely for last year's shit show -- that was a total failure across the board: management, coaching, players. Not fair to say it was Jones alone who caused the Giants to get crushed by Dallas, SF, Miami, etc.
(I usually don't join in the DJ threads, as there's not much new to say at this point.)
I agree with this. I worry his internal clock is broken; he hears footsteps; he never had a quick mind in the pocket and now it's worse than ever; he's scared of everything: the pass rush, turnovers, missing big plays, the media backlash, the disappointment.
Some did. Alex Smith is likely the best we can hope for currently from that list. The other guys were bad or turned it on as soon as they had a real chance like Delhomme.
Sweet analysis.
Sweet analysis.
They did.
Jones has played and been a starter for 5 full seasons/ 60 games. There really isn't a case I know of where a player got this long of an opportunity while not being good. Maybe he puts it all together his 6th season, but that is incredibly rare in sports in general.
Could he have a ‘good’ season? Yes, if the OL plays significantly better and if he stays healthy. He has better weapons now and third year in this offense.
Do I think he’ll have a ‘good’ year? No, coming off ACL and with the pressure on him, I think it’s a longshot. I believe his days as our starting QB will be very few; don’t think he’ll be starting by year end either due to injury or performance.
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and thinking DJ, Tyrod and Cutlets played in the same situation.
Sweet analysis.
They did.
This is dense city over here
Jones has played and been a starter for 5 full seasons/ 60 games. There really isn't a case I know of where a player got this long of an opportunity while not being good. Maybe he puts it all together his 6th season, but that is incredibly rare in sports in general.
Yeah Alex Smith is the closest potential comparison on the list, I've concluded that's likely our best hope. Smith was good at reading defenses and making decisions if I remember correctly though?
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A lot of those didn't play the beginning of their career such as Romo. He didn't play until his 3rd season and was good right away and threw 36tds in his 4th year and 2nd year playing.
Jones has played and been a starter for 5 full seasons/ 60 games. There really isn't a case I know of where a player got this long of an opportunity while not being good. Maybe he puts it all together his 6th season, but that is incredibly rare in sports in general.
Yeah Alex Smith is the closest potential comparison on the list, I've concluded that's likely our best hope. Smith was good at reading defenses and making decisions if I remember correctly though?
Did you watch the Giants 49ers NFC Championship game?
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In comment 16499766 TyreeHelmet said:
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A lot of those didn't play the beginning of their career such as Romo. He didn't play until his 3rd season and was good right away and threw 36tds in his 4th year and 2nd year playing.
Jones has played and been a starter for 5 full seasons/ 60 games. There really isn't a case I know of where a player got this long of an opportunity while not being good. Maybe he puts it all together his 6th season, but that is incredibly rare in sports in general.
Yeah Alex Smith is the closest potential comparison on the list, I've concluded that's likely our best hope. Smith was good at reading defenses and making decisions if I remember correctly though?
Did you watch the Giants 49ers NFC Championship game?
Of course, you're right. DJ could be our Alex Smith!
We can only hope as there is not an alternative now!
I agree, but I don't think Lock will get a fair shot unless DJ is injured.
When framed that way, who the hell would bet Jones can be available and be good for consecutive years?
When framed that way, who the hell would bet Jones can be available and be good for consecutive years?
Well, his rookie year was good and what gives the DJ cult their MOJO I think. Then 2022, first playoff win in 10 years added to their think-tank. So he has had 2 above average years and 3 bad/injury plagued. A good year would go a long way. He will need to learn to be more of a pocket passer and not use his legs too much.
No, this is the historical comparative correlation we have for Jones though. I don't think he's going to be a gold jacket guy unfortunately. He could bloom into an Alex Smith type though. That's likely the most we could hope for I think.
Some of them like Romo didn't play at all and then became good when he got a chance. Some, like Fiedler, just had a random decent season when he somehow got a starting job. Geno Smith is a legit late bloomer - he was terrible when young and really surprised everyone by being pretty good.
The fan base that has been incessantly whining about Jones being picked 6OA has to stop pretending he has shown nothing in his career. He has shown plenty of promise amidst the junk he's had to deal with here. I think he's going to show a lot more and Schoen/Daboll/non-haters will be vindicated for their belief in him. I have full confidence in DJ getting healthy and being a part of a winning solution for this franchise.
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but Trent Dilfer? Do you mean the same Trent Dilfer that Baltimore replaced after the Super Bowl with Elvis Grbac? That Trent Dilfer? He was not a late bloomer. He sucked.
Some guys bloom like a dandelion; some bloom like an orchid. We have a dandelion I think. He could still bloom though.
Wow. I'm thinking more about the tropical plant that only blooms something like once a decade, and when it does the huge flower gives off a terrible smell of rotten meat, which the plant uses to attract and trap flies to eat them....
Given this background, why would anyone be optimistic about Jones emerging?