"No" it was Joe Alt the Giants wanted to trade for
"It was Drake Maye"
"Drake Maye would have been the guy"
"Had interest in JJ McCarthy but no at pick 6"
"Drew Lock will have a chance to compete"
Via @MikeGarafolo
on NFL Network
interesting they would have gone to 2 for drake maye
next year has no in the same stratosphere as Maye. They are screwed at the position for a while unless someone takes a huge leap and they are in position to get him.
These guys are full of BS. No team in the NFL is going to ask their QB coming off an ACL to 'compete' for their job in training camp. None! Now if jones struggles early in the season he may be on something of a short leash but that's about it.
next year has no in the same stratosphere as Maye. They are screwed at the position for a while unless someone takes a huge leap and they are in position to get him.
a year ago jayden daniels wasnt in maye's stratosphere and he went 1 pick ahead of him. maybe let the year play out?
next year has no in the same stratosphere as Maye. They are screwed at the position for a while unless someone takes a huge leap and they are in position to get him.
Doesn't mean they won't draft a QB in the teens.
Each draft is different. Teams like different QBs.
Perhaps I'm naive, but based on our attempted trade up to get Drake/the Hawks or Broncos GM saying publicly that Lock signed with us on the opportunity he'd get a chance to compete for the starting job/Joe's 'As of this moment' comment about DJ being the starter/Jones' body language in Dab's team meeting...
More dependable, able to get the ball out more quickly and downfield.
Getting the ball out quick seems to be all anyone cares about. But unless Daboll can fix Lock, him getting the ball out quick is going to lead to heavy turnovers because he’s reckless.
Perhaps I'm naive, but based on our attempted trade up to get Drake/the Hawks or Broncos GM saying publicly that Lock signed with us on the opportunity he'd get a chance to compete for the starting job/Joe's 'As of this moment' comment about DJ being the starter/Jones' body language in Dab's team meeting...
Maybe scholarship days are over @ QB. I hope.
_____________
The QB should be whoever can hit the open man (Nabers) in full stride. Eli used to hang Beckham out to dry.
These guys are full of BS. No team in the NFL is going to ask their QB coming off an ACL to 'compete' for their job in training camp. None! Now if jones struggles early in the season he may be on something of a short leash but that's about it.
We’ll see.
However, the era of, “Just because he got injured doesn’t mean he’ll lose
his job.” in the NFL has been over for years. Especially when that person isn’t very good at their job, at all.
Perhaps I'm naive, but based on our attempted trade up to get Drake/the Hawks or Broncos GM saying publicly that Lock signed with us on the opportunity he'd get a chance to compete for the starting job/Joe's 'As of this moment' comment about DJ being the starter/Jones' body language in Dab's team meeting...
Maybe scholarship days are over @ QB. I hope.
_____________
The QB should be whoever can hit the open man (Nabers) in full stride. Eli used to hang Beckham out to dry.
Eli made Beckham millions upon millions of dollars. What has Beckham done without Eli? One half of a decent season in LA?
next year has no in the same stratosphere as Maye. They are screwed at the position for a while unless someone takes a huge leap and they are in position to get him.
Doesn't mean they won't draft a QB in the teens.
Each draft is different. Teams like different QBs.
Unless we have the #1 overall pick I don’t know how anybody can be confident this franchise will add a QB next year.
Perhaps I'm naive, but based on our attempted trade up to get Drake/the Hawks or Broncos GM saying publicly that Lock signed with us on the opportunity he'd get a chance to compete for the starting job/Joe's 'As of this moment' comment about DJ being the starter/Jones' body language in Dab's team meeting...
Maybe scholarship days are over @ QB. I hope.
_____________
The QB should be whoever can hit the open man (Nabers) in full stride. Eli used to hang Beckham out to dry.
next year has no in the same stratosphere as Maye. They are screwed at the position for a while unless someone takes a huge leap and they are in position to get him.
I don't buy that, Maye has serious issues and could easily be mediocre or worse.
Sanders, Milroe, Ward, Ewers, Beck, Dart, Leonard, Allar make a group of 8 QBs to watch. There will be 3-4 selected in round 1.
Maybe if the Bears were the ones wanting to trade up instead of Colts,
next year has no in the same stratosphere as Maye. They are screwed at the position for a while unless someone takes a huge leap and they are in position to get him.
I don't buy that, Maye has serious issues and could easily be mediocre or worse.
Sanders, Milroe, Ward, Ewers, Beck, Dart, Leonard, Allar make a group of 8 QBs to watch. There will be 3-4 selected in round 1.
There are a few others I would add to the preseason watch list. Jim Nagy had a tweet with a few of the names (plus others that currently don’t do it for me).
in 2024 or 2025, they are walking into a really good situation now with Nabers, Robinson, Hyatt, Slayton, McKenzie, Theo Johnson, Tyrone Tracey.
Nabers can catch a 5-yard pass and turn it into a 80-yard TD. So can Hyatt. There is a ton of speed and quickness on this offense now.
I'd be careful about counting chickens before they hatch again. This time last year people were talking about how Paris Campbell and Hyatt's speed were going to overwhelm people and Darren Waller was going to be a problem for defenses.
Nabers can likely be counted on to be a big time playmaker, but a lot of names on that list can either be nonfactors in 2024 or slide the wrong way in their development.
next year has no in the same stratosphere as Maye. They are screwed at the position for a while unless someone takes a huge leap and they are in position to get him.
I don't buy that, Maye has serious issues and could easily be mediocre or worse.
Sanders, Milroe, Ward, Ewers, Beck, Dart, Leonard, Allar make a group of 8 QBs to watch. There will be 3-4 selected in round 1.
There are a few others I would add to the preseason watch list. Jim Nagy had a tweet with a few of the names (plus others that currently don’t do it for me).
It will be a solid, average QB year, nothing like the Pickett draft. Somewhere in between that and the 2024 draft. There's also a good chance we pick well ahead of all other QB needy teams.
That they don’t have ranked as highly as Maye. They’re probably not staring at a prospect like Nabers at a non-qb premium position of massive need next year as another option either. He’s the best non-qb prospect we’ve even had the option of drafting since Ive been following drafts (late 90s) if we’re factoring in consensus + positional value. There was likely a point they were willing to draft JJM and it very well could have been the very next pick or shortly thereafter.
These guys are full of BS. No team in the NFL is going to ask their QB coming off an ACL to 'compete' for their job in training camp. None! Now if jones struggles early in the season he may be on something of a short leash but that's about it.
Why wouldn’t you want to see an open competition and the best man wins? What’s wrong with that? Why the hell should Daniel Freakin Jones just be handed the job? How the hell wouldn’t EVERY Giants fan want the best QB taking snaps? I’ll tell you why, you’re all a fucking cult. That’s why
In comment 16499999 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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In comment 16499986 Ivan15 said:
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In comment 16499973 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Perhaps I'm naive, but based on our attempted trade up to get Drake/the Hawks or Broncos GM saying publicly that Lock signed with us on the opportunity he'd get a chance to compete for the starting job/Joe's 'As of this moment' comment about DJ being the starter/Jones' body language in Dab's team meeting...
Maybe scholarship days are over @ QB. I hope.
_____________
The QB should be whoever can hit the open man (Nabers) in full stride. Eli used to hang Beckham out to dry.
Eli made Beckham millions upon millions of dollars. What has Beckham done without Eli? One half of a decent season in LA?
Here’s a legitimate question. Bases on what we’ve seen so far in their respective careers, why is DeVito not mentioned in this upcoming season’s QB competition? Considering we have nothing else at the position, we may as well give him a shot too.
next year has no in the same stratosphere as Maye. They are screwed at the position for a while unless someone takes a huge leap and they are in position to get him.
I don't buy that, Maye has serious issues and could easily be mediocre or worse.
Sanders, Milroe, Ward, Ewers, Beck, Dart, Leonard, Allar make a group of 8 QBs to watch. There will be 3-4 selected in round 1.
There are a few others I would add to the preseason watch list. Jim Nagy had a tweet with a few of the names (plus others that currently don’t do it for me).
I see the list you mentioned. Dillon Gabriel is one I should add to the 8, the others could break out too. Those 9 (with Gabriel included) are the big ones to watch imo. There will be good options in rd1 2025.
After three years in charge, Schoen has assembled the fifth most expensive QB room in the NFL, and it is comprised of Daniel Jones, Drew Lock, and Tommy DeVito.
That they don’t have ranked as highly as Maye. They’re probably not staring at a prospect like Nabers at a non-qb premium position of massive need next year as another option either. He’s the best non-qb prospect we’ve even had the option of drafting since Ive been following drafts (late 90s) if we’re factoring in consensus + positional value. There was likely a point they were willing to draft JJM and it very well could have been the very next pick or shortly thereafter.
Garafolo said much later for JJM in the clip, no chance it would have been him if Nabers went at 5.
next year has no in the same stratosphere as Maye. They are screwed at the position for a while unless someone takes a huge leap and they are in position to get him.
I don't buy that, Maye has serious issues and could easily be mediocre or worse.
Sanders, Milroe, Ward, Ewers, Beck, Dart, Leonard, Allar make a group of 8 QBs to watch. There will be 3-4 selected in round 1.
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
As much as I want Jones gone, give me A as there is no WR1 from that group just more complementary pieces. We also would have probably gotten one or two much lesser DB’s in your scenario in Rounds 3&6.
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
You know what I would say. Nevertheless, it doesn't matter. I see Schoen's line of thinking. It's a tricky situation with DJ. Mara made it clear he wanted DJ signed long term. I don't think he would have gotten the franchise tag even if we could have. We still owe him 70 million minimum over the next 2 seasons. I get why Schoen went with the elite prospect in Nabers.
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
Exactly, all everyone said it’s a deep WR draft and we would have plenty of options to get a WR in the 2nd round which I thought was nonsense. Looking at how the draft played out who was the WR1 we could picked?!
next year has no in the same stratosphere as Maye. They are screwed at the position for a while unless someone takes a huge leap and they are in position to get him.
I don't buy that, Maye has serious issues and could easily be mediocre or worse.
Sanders, Milroe, Ward, Ewers, Beck, Dart, Leonard, Allar make a group of 8 QBs to watch. There will be 3-4 selected in round 1.
Schoen talked a lot of about doing QB homework to be prepared when these guys become available via trade or through FA.
I'm of the belief everything is on the table for the next QB. Draft, veteran signing or veteran trade. For how quick these guys are getting churned out, who's to say they don't trade for Maye in 2 years?
Another name to keep an eye on - Bryce Young. Schoen has a great relationship with Morgan and Tepper is a ticking time bomb. If Young struggles again, I could see Schoen trading for him.
The bottom line is, I think the next QB isn't as simple as a top 5 drafted guy.
in 2024 or 2025, they are walking into a really good situation now with Nabers, Robinson, Hyatt, Slayton, McKenzie, Theo Johnson, Tyrone Tracey.
Nabers can catch a 5-yard pass and turn it into a 80-yard TD. So can Hyatt. There is a ton of speed and quickness on this offense now. /////
I'd be careful about counting chickens before they hatch again. This time last year people were talking about how Paris Campbell and Hyatt's speed were going to overwhelm people and Darren Waller was going to be a problem for defenses.
Nabers can likely be counted on to be a big time playmaker, but a lot of names on that list can either be nonfactors in 2024 or slide the wrong way in their development.
ding ding ding Theo Johnson? Really? Not like you, Eric
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
Easily the latter.
Given how rare it is for prospects to talk about where they “think” they’ll go and go into as much detail as JJM did with NYG. I’m fully prepared to be haunted by him and those comments when he solidifies as a franchise QB.
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
I'd take McCarthy. Schoen would say that you aren't factoring in McKinney's replacement though with the second round pick.
I'll say this on McCarthy though. Drafting another perceived limited QB by many following Jones isn't ideal. As Terps has said, go back and read the national title game thread. The comments towards him were nothing along the lines of a top 10 pick.
These guys are full of BS. No team in the NFL is going to ask their QB coming off an ACL to 'compete' for their job in training camp. None! Now if jones struggles early in the season he may be on something of a short leash but that's about it.
That’s exactly what’s a team with a bad QB coming off an acl would ask their QB to do
In comment 16499999 BJacobs The Tiptoe Bandit said:
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In comment 16499986 Ivan15 said:
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In comment 16499973 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Perhaps I'm naive, but based on our attempted trade up to get Drake/the Hawks or Broncos GM saying publicly that Lock signed with us on the opportunity he'd get a chance to compete for the starting job/Joe's 'As of this moment' comment about DJ being the starter/Jones' body language in Dab's team meeting...
Maybe scholarship days are over @ QB. I hope.
_____________
The QB should be whoever can hit the open man (Nabers) in full stride. Eli used to hang Beckham out to dry.
Eli made Beckham millions upon millions of dollars. What has Beckham done without Eli? One half of a decent season in LA?
The entire 2016 offense was a 5 yard pass to Odell that he turned into big gain or a touchdown
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
I'd take McCarthy. Schoen would say that you aren't factoring in McKinney's replacement though with the second round pick.
I'll say this on McCarthy though. Drafting another perceived limited QB by many following Jones isn't ideal. As Terps has said, go back and read the national title game thread. The comments towards him were nothing along the lines of a top 10 pick.
Yea but those comments would be from a bunch of guys bullshitting on a sports message board.
The NFL market has spoken. Penix, McCarthy and Nix went at 8, 10 and 12 respectively. That’s what they’re worth, for now at least. It’s not as if the Giants passed at 6 and these guys went in the 30’s. Everyone pretty much knew this would be the case going into the draft.
That they don’t have ranked as highly as Maye. They’re probably not staring at a prospect like Nabers at a non-qb premium position of massive need next year as another option either. He’s the best non-qb prospect we’ve even had the option of drafting since Ive been following drafts (late 90s) if we’re factoring in consensus + positional value. There was likely a point they were willing to draft JJM and it very well could have been the very next pick or shortly thereafter.
Garafolo said much later for JJM in the clip, no chance it would have been him if Nabers went at 5.
I did see it, I’m not going to put too much stock in a single word. The point I’m really making is against the argument that they’ll only move on a qb when the stars align. Don’t agree with that. What gets somewhat lost in these discussions is how rare of a prospect Nabers was at the 3rd highest paid position in football. Since I’ve been following, we haven’t even had the option to draft an elite blue chipper at a premium position. He’s a more highly regarded prospect than the 3 we drafted in the top 10 recently (Thomas had warts and detractors) better than others like Chubb and the Ohio State corner I’m blanking on at the moment. Similar caliber prospect to Saquan, Nelson and Sean Taylor but at a much more impactful position. The opportunity cost of passing on him for what was clearly a red chip tier of QBs factored. If we’re picking in the teens or even a weaker top of the draft the math will change.
in 2024 or 2025, they are walking into a really good situation now with Nabers, Robinson, Hyatt, Slayton, McKenzie, Theo Johnson, Tyrone Tracey.
Nabers can catch a 5-yard pass and turn it into a 80-yard TD. So can Hyatt. There is a ton of speed and quickness on this offense now. /////
I'd be careful about counting chickens before they hatch again. This time last year people were talking about how Paris Campbell and Hyatt's speed were going to overwhelm people and Darren Waller was going to be a problem for defenses.
Nabers can likely be counted on to be a big time playmaker, but a lot of names on that list can either be nonfactors in 2024 or slide the wrong way in their development.
ding ding ding Theo Johnson? Really? Not like you, Eric
You guys can be miserable sour pusses all you want. The Giants nailed this draft and I'm going to enjoy it.
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
Exactly, all everyone said it’s a deep WR draft and we would have plenty of options to get a WR in the 2nd round which I thought was nonsense. Looking at how the draft played out who was the WR1 we could picked?!
We have an opposite view here. I think it was a very deep WR draft and would not be the least surprised if one, two, or three of the WRs in basket B is really good. Maybe not the caliber - on paper - as Nabers, but high quality.
And very good WRs are very valuable with the right triggerman, right?
People were so sure they were going to go 1-2-3-4, that didn't happen. Some QB needy teams got a guy, but unlike Maye where two teams aggressively made a play to move up for him, there wasn't the urgency for the others. MN had two 1s round picks and only traded one spot for JJM. There is clear gap between first 3 and next 3, which was what most people believed from the start.
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
Exactly, all everyone said it’s a deep WR draft and we would have plenty of options to get a WR in the 2nd round which I thought was nonsense. Looking at how the draft played out who was the WR1 we could picked?!
We have an opposite view here. I think it was a very deep WR draft and would not be the least surprised if one, two, or three of the WRs in basket B is really good. Maybe not the caliber - on paper - as Nabers, but high quality.
And very good WRs are very valuable with the right triggerman, right?
Taking the field, that is a bold strategy there Cotton. If you look at who the NFL valued in the vicinity of pick 47 I am just not sure I see a WR1 anywhere close to what Nabers can do.
Schoen talked a lot of about doing QB homework to be prepared when these guys become available via trade or through FA.
I'm of the belief everything is on the table for the next QB. Draft, veteran signing or veteran trade. For how quick these guys are getting churned out, who's to say they don't trade for Maye in 2 years?
Another name to keep an eye on - Bryce Young. Schoen has a great relationship with Morgan and Tepper is a ticking time bomb. If Young struggles again, I could see Schoen trading for him.
The bottom line is, I think the next QB isn't as simple as a top 5 drafted guy.
I think there is next to zero chance that Maye or Young are available after two years because the team that drafted them thought they were busts, but we really like them. I can’t think of any precedent for something like that with a guy then turning into a solid player.
I think there is a very good chance Dak Prescott is in play next year.
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
Exactly, all everyone said it’s a deep WR draft and we would have plenty of options to get a WR in the 2nd round which I thought was nonsense. Looking at how the draft played out who was the WR1 we could picked?!
We have an opposite view here. I think it was a very deep WR draft and would not be the least surprised if one, two, or three of the WRs in basket B is really good. Maybe not the caliber - on paper - as Nabers, but high quality.
And very good WRs are very valuable with the right triggerman, right?
It sure is precious watching you lose your mind over JJ McCarthy after you mocked him the entire season. Even came up with your clever “JMFC” moniker to make fun of those that liked him. Now you’re beside yourself because they didn’t pick him at 6. Any wonder why you can’t be taken seriously? This is example 1 million…
It sure is precious watching you lose your mind over JJ McCarthy after you mocked him the entire season. Even came up with your clever “JMFC” moniker to make fun of those that liked him. Now you’re beside yourself because they didn’t pick him at 6. Any wonder why you can’t be taken seriously? This is example 1 million…
hard to take posters seriously who either (1) are convinced the Giants can never do no wrong, or (2) are convinced the Giants can do no right.
I need to start tuning those people out and stop arguing with them.
Well to be fair, everyone on this board either loved when Schoen did not pick up Jones’ fifth year option, or when they signed him to his current contract.
Even on BBI there can’t be anybody who hated both of those moves.
But hurt Jones haters looking for anything to tear him down… what a bunch of crybabies….I thought the draft went as well as it could with the few picks we had after trades… looking forward to the season .
RE: All will be well if we nail a qb in 2025 draft.
I wouldn't say no big deal. While I completely agree with the direction they took, not getting the QB they wanted in 2024 is a huge deal. There is massive pressure on them now to figure it out, and no easy solutions.
More dependable, able to get the ball out more quickly and downfield.
Getting the ball out quick seems to be all anyone cares about. But unless Daboll can fix Lock, him getting the ball out quick is going to lead to heavy turnovers because he’s reckless.
Lock cannot be worse than 2023 Daniel Jones trying to fit into Daboll's offense.
But hurt Jones haters looking for anything to tear him down… what a bunch of crybabies….I thought the draft went as well as it could with the few picks we had after trades… looking forward to the season .
You think people are “looking for anything” to tear Jones down? You can just post his stats. Nobody is spending hours hunched over the computers trying to find some support for not liking Jones.
Schefty is not getting nearly enough heat these days for pretty routinely deferring to speculation over reporting. At least he clarified that he didn't KNOW if it was Alt/Maye, but still....
You're not on these shows to be a glorified BBI poster.
More dependable, able to get the ball out more quickly and downfield.
Getting the ball out quick seems to be all anyone cares about. But unless Daboll can fix Lock, him getting the ball out quick is going to lead to heavy turnovers because he’s reckless.
Lock cannot be worse than 2023 Daniel Jones trying to fit into Daboll's offense.
I take you haven't seen much of Luck. He's mucho bad.
next year has no in the same stratosphere as Maye. They are screwed at the position for a while unless someone takes a huge leap and they are in position to get him.
I don't buy that, Maye has serious issues and could easily be mediocre or worse.
Sanders, Milroe, Ward, Ewers, Beck, Dart, Leonard, Allar make a group of 8 QBs to watch. There will be 3-4 selected in round 1.
I would've had no problem with the Giants drafting Maye, with a trade up.
But to pretend that he is some type of Elway sure thing doesn't make sense to me.
As for next year's qb draft class, that changes all the time.
How was Burrow viewed going into his senior year? Tons of other examples.
It sure is precious watching you lose your mind over JJ McCarthy after you mocked him the entire season. Even came up with your clever “JMFC” moniker to make fun of those that liked him. Now you’re beside yourself because they didn’t pick him at 6. Any wonder why you can’t be taken seriously? This is example 1 million…
Losing my mind? Beside myself?
What are you twelve?
I proposed a hypothetical.
Oh please. You’ve been whining about them not taking McCarthy since the pick was made. And we all know you had less than zero use for him all season. You ripped him every chance you got
RE: RE: All will be well if we nail a qb in 2025 draft.
I wouldn't say no big deal. While I completely agree with the direction they took, not getting the QB they wanted in 2024 is a huge deal. There is massive pressure on them now to figure it out, and no easy solutions.
No big deal to me I should say, the next QB will have a better supporting cast to work with. All we can hope is for us to strike gold in 2025 drafting a qb with a good supporting cast. Look at Minnesota with JJM, they are giving him the best possible support structure with their roster on offense and KOC. We still owe DJ at least 70 million over the next 2 years, it just wasn't the right time. Cest la vie.
These guys are full of BS. No team in the NFL is going to ask their QB coming off an ACL to 'compete' for their job in training camp. None! Now if jones struggles early in the season he may be on something of a short leash but that's about it.
Why wouldn’t you want to see an open competition and the best man wins? What’s wrong with that? Why the hell should Daniel Freakin Jones just be handed the job? How the hell wouldn’t EVERY Giants fan want the best QB taking snaps? I’ll tell you why, you’re all a fucking cult. That’s why
Agree, you have a QB coming off ACL surgery and you think the team should just hand him the job??? Maybe see if he is able to perform first?
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
Exactly, all everyone said it’s a deep WR draft and we would have plenty of options to get a WR in the 2nd round which I thought was nonsense. Looking at how the draft played out who was the WR1 we could picked?!
We have an opposite view here. I think it was a very deep WR draft and would not be the least surprised if one, two, or three of the WRs in basket B is really good. Maybe not the caliber - on paper - as Nabers, but high quality.
And very good WRs are very valuable with the right triggerman, right?
There will be good WRs in that group for sure. We can agree on that. But we have already have good WRs on the roster in WanDale Robinson (who’s shown more so far) and Hyatt. But a WR1 in that so called “basket” is much harder to project. Nabers has top 5 WR potential and can be a true difference maker like an OBJ, Justin Jefferson, Tyreek, Chase, etc. I don’t think you bypass that for JJM/Penix.
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
The most frequent comps I see given for Nabers are Tyreke Hill and Jamar Chase. The most frequent comps I see for JJM are Alex Smith and Andy Dalton
So I would have made the same choice as Schoen
The Giants are developing the type of offense I want to watch. I'm 100% pro basketball on grass and the receiving group is incredibly exciting.
I'm floored anyone is optimistic about Lock. The one chance he got to start a season he was the most inaccurate quarterback in the NFL.
He was worst among starters in completion percentage and worst among starters in on-target throws. The guy was a complete mess.
I thought it was just me. I’m completely baffled about the Lock love here. Think it has more to do with not wanting to DJ on the field so the alternative is always better.
But let them compete, I’m pretty confident Lock won’t outplay DJ
just said on "Move the Sticks" that "Drew Lock has a really good shot at winning that job."
Of course he does. Certain posters don’t want to see this and are waiting in the wings to bitch and complain and derail as many threads as possible when Jones eventually starts because he is the best QB on the roster.
just said on "Move the Sticks" that "Drew Lock has a really good shot at winning that job."
The groundswell is starting. This is feeling like the Dave Brown/Danny Kanell/Kent Graham cycle of backup QBs fighting for the starting job until the real QB comes along.
Had 10 TD's in four games in 2014 before Beckham debuted.
McAdoo's scheming helped but of course the ultimate coaching was Coughlin. The line wasn't as bad as it became in 2015-2017. The selection of Ereck Flowers was an abomination.
just said on "Move the Sticks" that "Drew Lock has a really good shot at winning that job."
The groundswell is starting. This is feeling like the Dave Brown/Danny Kanell/Kent Graham cycle of backup QBs fighting for the starting job until the real QB comes along.
No groundswell at all… just ppl who have wishful thinking and/or rather not see DJ take the field again as Giant. Many here want them to not play DJ because of the 2025 injury guarantee and others are telling themselves, Devito, Lock, Taylor anyone really is simply better than DJ. I’m confident DJ will start 1) he’s more talented than Lock and he’s being paid millions. Jeremiah is out of touch here.
Lock has more arm talent than Jones. Significantly more. While Sy had a 77 on him and a 80 on Jones, he mentioned Lock’s arm compared to Matthew Stafford coming out of Georgia.
Problem is - he has been wildly inaccurate and those issues haven’t corrected themselves.
can someone explain to me how every team in the NFL seemed to have 10 picks in this draft except for the Giants? Yes, there are comp picks and yes there are trades, but in reviewing the draft reviews, everyone else seemed to have a bunch of picks.
And I’m fine with an open competition if it pushes DJ to be better.
I’m sure he’s already motivated after all the Maye talk etc so whatever gives us the best version of DJ I’m all for it. But I will beyond shocked if Lock beats out DJ.
can someone explain to me how every team in the NFL seemed to have 10 picks in this draft except for the Giants? Yes, there are comp picks and yes there are trades, but in reviewing the draft reviews, everyone else seemed to have a bunch of picks.
I think a lot of teams traded down… don’t have the numbers but felt like a lot of movement and maneuvering going on.
But then it should even out with other teams having fewer picks. Maybe it's just a false impression on my part. But in the team reviews, it seems like teams have 8, 9, 10 picks.
just said on "Move the Sticks" that "Drew Lock has a really good shot at winning that job."
If Jones is cleared, I can't see anyway he's not starting games over Lock. He's one of the highest paid players in the NFL. That alone will get him leash.
I do think, however, Jones can play his way out of the job, but it's going to have to because of real game performance, not camp.
If Locks does get the job over a health Jones during camp, that will absolutely shock me. But that would be awesome if Daboll would make that call...
But then it should even out with other teams having fewer picks. Maybe it's just a false impression on my part. But in the team reviews, it seems like teams have 8, 9, 10 picks.
with the 32 comp picks every team should average 8 picks if every team evenly divided. then the nyg + others being 25% under the average amount mean other teams are 25% over.
But then it should even out with other teams having fewer picks. Maybe it's just a false impression on my part. But in the team reviews, it seems like teams have 8, 9, 10 picks.
Any topics that discuss quarterback or specifically Daniel Jones get so tiresome so quickly.
Eric, is it possible to add another thread type:
NJT (Non Jones Thread).
You do realize the owner of this site said these things leading into the draft:
-- If you don't have a good QB, you don't have a team
-- Jones is done
-- We are drafting a QB
-- Intel was indicating taking a QB nearly fait accompli
-- Schoen is smart enough to realize we need a new QB
-- Etc
So, what do you expect the dominant discussion to be in the aftermath?
Team Pks
ARIZ 12
ATL 8
BALT 9
BUFF 10
CAR 8
CHI 5
CINN 10
CLEV 6
DALL 8
DEN 7
DET 6
GB 11
HOU 9
INDY 9
JAX 9
JETS 7
KC 7
LAC 8
LAR 10
LV 8
MIA 7
MINN 7
NE 9
NO 7
NYG 6
PHIL 9
PITT 7
SF 8
SEA 8
TB 7
TENN 7
WAS 9
can someone explain to me how every team in the NFL seemed to have 10 picks in this draft except for the Giants? Yes, there are comp picks and yes there are trades, but in reviewing the draft reviews, everyone else seemed to have a bunch of picks.
can someone explain to me how every team in the NFL seemed to have 10 picks in this draft except for the Giants? Yes, there are comp picks and yes there are trades, but in reviewing the draft reviews, everyone else seemed to have a bunch of picks.
giants didnt bother trading down (:
Or trade guys like Barkley and McKinney for draft picks during the season. Rather than gambling on comp picks when they knew that they needed to sign replacements anyway due to poor drafting they should have been hoarding draft picks.
can someone explain to me how every team in the NFL seemed to have 10 picks in this draft except for the Giants? Yes, there are comp picks and yes there are trades, but in reviewing the draft reviews, everyone else seemed to have a bunch of picks.
giants didnt bother trading down (:
Or trade guys like Barkley and McKinney for draft picks during the season. Rather than gambling on comp picks when they knew that they needed to sign replacements anyway due to poor drafting they should have been hoarding draft picks.
Mara said himself he doesn't like giving up and he wanted to sign Saquon. Was really dumb, that could have gotten us to pick 3. I do like Nabers a lot though and I have faith it will all work out in the end (not with DJ).
next year has no in the same stratosphere as Maye. They are screwed at the position for a while unless someone takes a huge leap and they are in position to get him.
Every year players come out of nowhere ...
Drake Maye against legit defenses in the past 2 years:
8 tds to 11 ints in 9 games. I hope no one loses sleep over that guy with huge bust potential. The struggles against pressure won't get any better in the pros. He has the same issue as Daniel Jones imo; he lacks the quick mind in the pocket required to be efficient when pressured.
Was outplaying Jones in camp and people didn’t believe it. Then it showed on the field.
If it’s a real competition there’s a very real chance Lock wins the job.
You are confusing training camp 2022 with 2023 in a major way. For 2023, Jones was a made man with his new contract and coming off making the playoffs. No one was talking about Taylor vs Jones.
And even going back to 2022, the talk of Taylor outplaying Jones had faded by the start of the regular season, because people had seen enough of Taylor in the exhibition games to know he wasn't the answer.
Schoen talked a lot of about doing QB homework to be prepared when these guys become available via trade or through FA.
I'm of the belief everything is on the table for the next QB. Draft, veteran signing or veteran trade. For how quick these guys are getting churned out, who's to say they don't trade for Maye in 2 years?
Another name to keep an eye on - Bryce Young. Schoen has a great relationship with Morgan and Tepper is a ticking time bomb. If Young struggles again, I could see Schoen trading for him.
The bottom line is, I think the next QB isn't as simple as a top 5 drafted guy.
I think there is next to zero chance that Maye or Young are available after two years because the team that drafted them thought they were busts, but we really like them. I can’t think of any precedent for something like that with a guy then turning into a solid player.
I think there is a very good chance Dak Prescott is in play next year.
Steve Young spent 2 seasons with Tampa Bay before being traded to SF. Granted he had to spend 4 1/2 seasons as Montana's backup, but when he got his chance he turned into a lot more than a "solid player" winning 2 NFL MVPs and a Super Bowl.
I might argue that Jim Plunkett also qualifies, winning a Super Bowl with his 3rd team, but Young is the better example.
About Jones struggling vs the Lions and Tyrod making the play of the day with a throw into the end zone.
An exact carbon copy of what we saw in the regular season. Lions practice - ( New Window )
From the article:
Quote:
Jones wanted the extra work after an uncharacteristically inaccurate day making that pass in the first joint session with the Lions.
“I just missed a couple of them that normally I feel pretty good about,” Jones said. “I’ve just got to be sharp with those and make sure we’re taking advantage of the opportunities that we have.”
Jones and the Giants offense had been firing on all cylinders during the 10 training camp practices in East Rutherford, N.J. But the Lions’ defense wasn’t nearly as hospitable in the Giants’ first sparring match with an opposing team.
"Jones and the Giants offense had been firing on all cylinders during the 10 training camp practices in East Rutherford."
The article itself refutes your point. There was no training camp controversy. It was one day. We were not "hearing all offseaon" about Tyrod Taylor. Not in training camp 2023.
Daboll dialed back the adverse conditions in 11 on 11 drills. That’s why the offense looked good. Once they played another opponent.
Quote:
Daboll dialing back the adverse situations to an extent.
The lions practice was the canary in the coal mine.
This also comes as no surprise
Quote:
Rookie wide receiver Jalin Hyatt is known for his speed, so perhaps it shouldn’t be surprising how quickly he’s moved up the depth chart during camp. After toiling mostly with the third-team offense during the spring, Hyatt has gotten work with all three units in camp.
Hyatt has done his best work with the second-team offense, flashing his speed on a long touchdown pass from backup quarterback Tyrod Taylor during Sunday’s practice. It still seems likely Hyatt will start his rookie season primarily as a deep threat, but that will provide immediate value.
Schoen talked a lot of about doing QB homework to be prepared when these guys become available via trade or through FA.
I'm of the belief everything is on the table for the next QB. Draft, veteran signing or veteran trade. For how quick these guys are getting churned out, who's to say they don't trade for Maye in 2 years?
Another name to keep an eye on - Bryce Young. Schoen has a great relationship with Morgan and Tepper is a ticking time bomb. If Young struggles again, I could see Schoen trading for him.
The bottom line is, I think the next QB isn't as simple as a top 5 drafted guy.
I think there is next to zero chance that Maye or Young are available after two years because the team that drafted them thought they were busts, but we really like them. I can’t think of any precedent for something like that with a guy then turning into a solid player.
I think there is a very good chance Dak Prescott is in play next year.
Steve Young spent 2 seasons with Tampa Bay before being traded to SF. Granted he had to spend 4 1/2 seasons as Montana's backup, but when he got his chance he turned into a lot more than a "solid player" winning 2 NFL MVPs and a Super Bowl.
I might argue that Jim Plunkett also qualifies, winning a Super Bowl with his 3rd team, but Young is the better example.
I thought of 3 more QBs whose original teams considered them "busts" and who turned out to be "solid players".
Doug Williams and Trent Difer both won Super Bowls with their 2nd teams, while Vinny Testaverde was at least a solid QB, who played until he was 44.
....daniel jones had surgery late nov. people are expecting too much out of him. put him on the kyler murray scheudle./////
Kyler Murray had surgery in Jan. Therefore, they are not on the same schedule at all. DJ will be ready for the season.////
Kyler Murray tore his ACL December 12th so say DJ will be ready a month before Murray was. It's not 2 months off though.
Could well be, but their body types are so different, Murray more compact and stronger, Jones longer, thinner. Surgeries can surprise as to how differently they affect one athlete vs another.
just said on "Move the Sticks" that "Drew Lock has a really good shot at winning that job."
The groundswell is starting. This is feeling like the Dave Brown/Danny Kanell/Kent Graham cycle of backup QBs fighting for the starting job until the real QB comes along.
It’s 1998. Let’s enjoy it. We are still talking about the Giants in 2000-2003 because it was so entertaining. And I think Daboll will prove to be a better coach than Fassel.
is speculating is that when guys like Garafolo and Jeremiah start mentioning things like this, they may be hearing something.
It's known they're looking for Jones' replacement. Only those in denial or willfully ignorant will try to say otherwise. That said, I expect Jones to win the gig if he's healthy. Lock's not the answer, he's a backup just like Jones.
extra picks, I recall reading that some teams like Chiefs, Rams and Eagles have been more adept at getting compensatory picks from players and minority coaches leaving to other teams.
I am not surprised at that and actually go back to Schoen's pre draft PC, he actually talks about the difficulty in trading up within the division. That to me says they explored that option already and it wasn't viable.
As the dust settles on the draft, the Giants are left in the same position at QB. Jones is a running quarterback recovering from an ACL tear and Lock is a journeyman backup who failed spectacularly in his one shot as a regular starter.
The last time Lock had the reigns, he was dismal, and the Broncos traded for Bridgewater to replace him.
As the dust settles on the draft, the Giants are left in the same position at QB. Jones is a running quarterback recovering from an ACL tear and Lock is a journeyman backup who failed spectacularly in his one shot as a regular starter.
The last time Lock had the reigns, he was dismal, and the Broncos traded for Bridgewater to replace him.
These are dark times for the Giants.
"These are dark times for the Giants."
The Giants have a much better roster now than when they did in 2022. Does that resonate with someone like you at all?
You guys will just continue to bitch and moan and be a bunch of pussies about the upcoming season. Vs the rest of us who actually look forward to watching the 2nd and 3rd year players continuing to develop, and see how Jones responds to the new version of this offense, sink or swim.
Due to not wanting to rush Jones and let’s be honest if he is at all successful their preference would be to have Jones never see the field and risk the injury guarantee. I suppose in a perfect world Jones builds some type of trade value, but the chance of that v the injury clause risk seems to me that they will do everything to keep Jones on the sideline.
The first year after an ACL tear nearly all players see a drop in production from their career averages prior to the tear. If they do get back to pre tear levels it’s usually in year 2.
Teams started taking away Jones’ easy time in the second half of 2022 and the passing game has been a disaster since. If he’s going to be less effective, or worse - hesitant of a runner defenses are going to force him to make decisions in the passing game like they did in the second half of 2022 and in 2023. He’s proven he can’t do that. Production after ACL recovery - ( New Window )
I know we over use "make or break" year for Jones since it's year 6, but this is really another one which is most comparable to 2022.
2022: 5th year option declined and a pending FA. The playoff win sealed his contract.
2024: Potential out in the contract & looming injury guarantee.
I think one thing this entire board agrees with, Jones needs to play well this year to be here in 2025. I don't expect the injury guarantee to come into play unless they are struggling in November. The neck makes it tricky though.
That Jones is the guy because they signed him to a big contract. There's a huge need to find our franchise QB, but let's not pretend they aren't looking.
I am not surprised at that and actually go back to Schoen's pre draft PC, he actually talks about the difficulty in trading up within the division. That to me says they explored that option already and it wasn't viable.
Not a big deal, I'd be willing to bet they talked to the Bears also as well as many other teams in front and behind. Due dilligence.
where would we have been picking if New England's kicker makes that field goal? (Please don't tell me 3rd).
Oh, you are asking for punishment going there, LOL. The what-if game will drive you freaking crazy. I was praying for them to make it at time... case in point why. But smart not to go there, if you value your sanity.
Also, can we stop acting like an ACL tear is some career threatening injury for a quarterback?
Yeah, Jones likes to run. So fucking what. He'll be able to run again, just like he once did. The knee will be fine.
If you're going to interact with my posts, can you please at a minimum exhibit the emotional regulatory skills of my 2-year-old? And can you also try to muster a third-grade level of reading comprehension while you're at it?
No one has claimed his ACL is a career threatening injury. But for a player whose only plus skill to-date has been running the football, and with the recovery window pressing against the start of camp or later, and the very well documented evidence many players take a full year to return to their former running ability after a tear, this is a major factor this year.
That Jones is the guy because they signed him to a big contract. There's a huge need to find our franchise QB, but let's not pretend they aren't looking.
The flip side is they actually spent less on this year's backup, and brought in a player with demonstrably less experience and success in the league.
Tyrod Taylor is markedly better and more accomplished quarterback than Drew Lock.
RE: Acting like an ACL is just a sprained ankle is pretty wild
The first year after an ACL tear nearly all players see a drop in production from their career averages prior to the tear. If they do get back to pre tear levels it’s usually in year 2.
Teams started taking away Jones’ easy time in the second half of 2022 and the passing game has been a disaster since. If he’s going to be less effective, or worse - hesitant of a runner defenses are going to force him to make decisions in the passing game like they did in the second half of 2022 and in 2023. He’s proven he can’t do that. Production after ACL recovery - ( New Window )
ACLs are routine surgeries nowadays. DJ will be fine.
I've been making that point. The QB room is WORSE than last year. That's what I really struggle with. Jones who is further broken down with another neck injury and ACL. Taylor while not as durable is a better player than Lock.
This is my biggest frustration. An already weak QB room is now worse off.
Deal with the cards they got. I hope that Thompson will be given a chance to prove he can compete in the NFL (I did not say QB#1).
DJ, Lock, Cutlets, Thompson. Rinse and repeat in 2025 Draft.
Moreover, DJ is a straight-line runner and that’s the 1st thing you can do in an ACL recovery/rehab. DJ doesn’t rely on lateral quickness or jukes like other players and positions.
RE: Jones and his ACL. Long term the ACL will not be a problem (I believe the Giants view Jones as a long term candidate but that's another topic.)
The question is his recovery timeline and how quickly in 2024 he's both confident in his knee, and physically able to return to his previous running ability.
The first year after an ACL tear nearly all players see a drop in production from their career averages prior to the tear. If they do get back to pre tear levels it’s usually in year 2.
Teams started taking away Jones’ easy time in the second half of 2022 and the passing game has been a disaster since. If he’s going to be less effective, or worse - hesitant of a runner defenses are going to force him to make decisions in the passing game like they did in the second half of 2022 and in 2023. He’s proven he can’t do that. Production after ACL recovery - ( New Window )
ACLs are routine surgeries nowadays. DJ will be fine.
Being routine surgeries doesn’t mean it doesn’t take two years to return to form. The data is right there, I suggest reading it
RE: RE: I certainly hope this squashes the narrative
That Jones is the guy because they signed him to a big contract. There's a huge need to find our franchise QB, but let's not pretend they aren't looking.
The flip side is they actually spent less on this year's backup, and brought in a player with demonstrably less experience and success in the league.
Tyrod Taylor is markedly better and more accomplished quarterback than Drew Lock.
christian we often disagree but your PoV is always valuable and worth consideration. I appreciate your insights.
RE: RE: RE: Acting like an ACL is just a sprained ankle is pretty wild
The first year after an ACL tear nearly all players see a drop in production from their career averages prior to the tear. If they do get back to pre tear levels it’s usually in year 2.
Teams started taking away Jones’ easy time in the second half of 2022 and the passing game has been a disaster since. If he’s going to be less effective, or worse - hesitant of a runner defenses are going to force him to make decisions in the passing game like they did in the second half of 2022 and in 2023. He’s proven he can’t do that. Production after ACL recovery - ( New Window )
ACLs are routine surgeries nowadays. DJ will be fine.
Being routine surgeries doesn’t mean it doesn’t take two years to return to form. The data is right there, I suggest reading it
Not arguing whether it takes 2 years to return completely to form. I would agree with that. That’s been stated by a number of players and the data I’m sure demonstrates that.
What I’m saying is the ACL in August/Sept won’t hinder DJ from getting on the field and won’t hinder him from beating out Lock.
Two separate conversations.
DJ himself has stated he expects to be ready for training camp.
He’s not saying that in a vacuum… he’s rehabbing at the facility with Giants trainers and medical staff. That timeline I’m sure has been discussed and is in line with when he had surgery.
It absolutely will hinder his ability to beat out Lock. He’s not that much of a better passer to say it won’t. We’ve seen how bad he is as a passer when teams take away a healthy Jones’ running.
We can look back at what I wrote when Jones was injured. The entire staff was going to be part of his rehab. He would be in the building constantly working. I have no proof but I believe what I felt was going to happen, happened. He won them over, they believe he will return.
Jones worked really hard and is absolutely on schedule, not only to start the season but participate in camp. Im sure they will ease him into it. The draft tells us that Jones appears completely ready to play and the Giants are confident in his recovery. I think owners, coaches, GM and players love Daniel Jones and it is for who he is as much as how he plays. He gets a chance to comeback because of it. QBs need to be leaders of men. Some us may hate that, it doesn’t change what is going happen.
That Jones is the guy because they signed him to a big contract. There's a huge need to find our franchise QB, but let's not pretend they aren't looking.
Looking for a QB? Where?
The time for that is over. Free Agency has passed. Cousins & Wilson signed elsewhere. Justin Fields was traded elsewhere
The draft has passed. We didnt take any of the QBs
Daniel Jones is the starter of this team. Drew Lock is his backup. Tommy DeVito is the 3rd string
This is a done deal for the 2024-25 season
Gets a chance because he’s a hard worker and a nice guy
It’s a laughable at this point. The sad part is there’s people in the front office who have the same line of thinking.
Things get earned in professional sports. You know who else was a hard worker and a nice guy? Evan Engram. Nobody on this board gave him the same grace.
RE: Gets a chance because he’s a hard worker and a nice guy
It’s a laughable at this point. The sad part is there’s people in the front office who have the same line of thinking.
Things get earned in professional sports. You know who else was a hard worker and a nice guy? Evan Engram. Nobody on this board gave him the same grace.
You got a poster saying above people love Jones for who he is as much as how he plays.
We can look back at what I wrote when Jones was injured. The entire staff was going to be part of his rehab. He would be in the building constantly working. I have no proof but I believe what I felt was going to happen, happened. He won them over, they believe he will return.
Jones worked really hard and is absolutely on schedule, not only to start the season but participate in camp. Im sure they will ease him into it. The draft tells us that Jones appears completely ready to play and the Giants are confident in his recovery. I think owners, coaches, GM and players love Daniel Jones and it is for who he is as much as how he plays. He gets a chance to comeback because of it. QBs need to be leaders of men. Some us may hate that, it doesn’t change what is going happen.
I think they are completely confident in his recovery. Shoen has addressed his recovery and says they have been no setbacks and DJ himself has stated he expects to ready for training camp. And they only brought in Lock.
More dependable, able to get the ball out more quickly and downfield.
Lock will look downfield, but the one thing he doesn’t do is get the ball out quickly. Hopefully Dabes can coach that into him.
Waldron worked on that with him in Seattle last year and the results tended to be positive. But much like Jones, reading complex defenses isn’t always a strength and relies on a lot of orchestrated route concepts and receivers to do the work.
Also the Denver situation was bad, Lock looked like Jones back under Shurmur trying to play street/hero ball, when Broncos canned the OC and QB coach, the bottom fell out for him the next year.
If people are going to keep giving Jones 9 thousand excuses and chances, Lock deserves at least a couple himself.
start pointing fingers at the QB play....then maybe Mara and Schoen will take the QB position seriously.
What I can't believe is that Tisch was in that damn war room all draft and he simply went along with the plan of Lock, DJ and Davito???????
I hope for the best and expect a circus. DJ will be injured triggering the $25 Mil, Lock and Davito will be brutal and it will be another year like last year. I fully expect it.
The whole sideshow was kind of embarrassing, but if he can put that to the side, he should be right in the mix.
QBs can improve a lot with game experience and practice reps. Daniel and Lock have had a lot and are still bad. Cutlets did improve quite a bit over the course of the few weeks he played.
He's fine physically - decent enough arm/accuracy and pretty mobile. His mentality seems good - much better than Daniel. With more reps, he has a chance to speed up his processing, which we saw evidence of last year.
Not saying he's great or even good. But considering the competition he should be in the mix
he starts the season as the starter unless he is way off in camp. Replace him if needed during the season. BD wanted Nabors. Bills took off when the Bills got Diggs. Before that they were poor.
OBJ helped but it was a soft running team and the D was terrible. Reese's great destruction of the LoS was playing out on the field and he pushed for the O change. Then when the next scapegoat (TC) was let go the O fell apart.
RE: RE: They also tried to bring in Russell Wilson
start pointing fingers at the QB play....then maybe Mara and Schoen will take the QB position seriously.
What I can't believe is that Tisch was in that damn war room all draft and he simply went along with the plan of Lock, DJ and Davito???????
I hope for the best and expect a circus. DJ will be injured triggering the $25 Mil, Lock and Davito will be brutal and it will be another year like last year. I fully expect it.
Guess you missed the aggressive offer we made for Maye…SMH
The plan was Drake Maye. NE prevented that so they went with Nabers, which was the plan B.
I don't know what to say to the people who wanted a QB no matter what. The team obviously didn't believe second tier of QBs were worth the selection at that point in the draft/worth passing up what they saw as a blue chip talent. They may be wrong, but they did put in the time studying these guys and that was the decision they made.
RE: RE: RE: They also tried to bring in Russell Wilson
The plan was Drake Maye. NE prevented that so they went with Nabers, which was the plan B.
I don't know what to say to the people who wanted a QB no matter what. The team obviously didn't believe second tier of QBs were worth the selection at that point in the draft/worth passing up what they saw as a blue chip talent. They may be wrong, but they did put in the time studying these guys and that was the decision they made.
Good riddance, Maye's numbers came against poor defensed. He had 8 tds and 11 ints in 9 games against mediocre to good defenses over the past 2 years. Look at his game logs. He racked up atats against bad defenses and struggled against any legit ones. He crumbles mentally under pressure. We dodged a bullet by getting Nabers instead of Maye.
Don’t know what to be true? That an ACL recovery has nothing to do with inquiring about the #3 pick. I would disagree. I think a reasonable mind can see them as 2 relatively independent events. I can also take what the GM and DJ has stated PUBLICLY about his recovery. And they have the full details because he’s there rehabbing with at their facility. Moreover, he texted DJ after selecting Nabers to inform him of the pick before the selection was made and gave him Nabers phone number.
they wanted maye because they liked maye (which appears to have been consensus).
by most accounts maye is the least ready to play day 1 anyway (including behind penix, jjm, nix).
you sign drew lock for 5m (and cost yourself a 4th/5th rd comp pick) to protect yourself if jones isn't healthy and devito doesn't progress.
offering to trade 2 firsts + more for maye is about maye. not jones. passing on jjm is about jjm, not jones.
Glad trade wasn’t made for a number of reasons. It would have stripped the team of valuable picks to build this team up on both sides of the ball. Based on the proposed trade, we would have had no 2nd rd pick. So WR1 or no McKinney replacement and no 1sr rd pick next year.
And I stated this from the beginning… the cost to trade up AND within a year make a complete about face after giving DJ an extension was NOT likely.
guys repeating that Jones will be fine are the same ones who told us "Barkley is done b/c of the ACL". Fact of the matter, none of us know where Jones is in his rehab. Also, he will not be the same player post injury till year 2 and that's a common statement about players and ACL injuries.
Also, I saw Jones a couple weeks ago and there are physical signs he is behind schedule in his rehab. Doesn't mean that will be the same come training camp.
guys repeating that Jones will be fine are the same ones who told us "Barkley is done b/c of the ACL". Fact of the matter, none of us know where Jones is in his rehab. Also, he will not be the same player post injury till year 2 and that's a common statement about players and ACL injuries.
Also, I saw Jones a couple weeks ago and there are physical signs he is behind schedule in his rehab. Doesn't mean that will be the same come training camp.
Still has a few months left… I’ve dealt with an ACL. It’s not a linear recovery. I’m sure he’s on target. Just completed a little over 5 months.
Don’t know what to be true? That an ACL recovery has nothing to do with inquiring about the #3 pick. I would disagree. I think a reasonable mind can see them as 2 relatively independent events. I can also take what the GM and DJ has stated PUBLICLY about his recovery. And they have the full details because he’s there rehabbing with at their facility. Moreover, he texted DJ after selecting Nabers to inform him of the pick before the selection was made and gave him Nabers phone number.
You don’t know where the Giants stand in his recovery. He hasn’t had a real practice yet. The Giants won’t have any idea what he looks like until training camp
guys repeating that Jones will be fine are the same ones who told us "Barkley is done b/c of the ACL". Fact of the matter, none of us know where Jones is in his rehab. Also, he will not be the same player post injury till year 2 and that's a common statement about players and ACL injuries.
Also, I saw Jones a couple weeks ago and there are physical signs he is behind schedule in his rehab. Doesn't mean that will be the same come training camp.
Still has a few months left… I’ve dealt with an ACL. It’s not a linear recovery. I’m sure he’s on target. Just completed a little over 5 months.
Ive had mine repaired as well, he is currently behind and not doing the things someone can do at 4 months. I said, he looks to be behind in the present and that can change come training camp...I know you want to prove your point but good lord.
guys repeating that Jones will be fine are the same ones who told us "Barkley is done b/c of the ACL". Fact of the matter, none of us know where Jones is in his rehab. Also, he will not be the same player post injury till year 2 and that's a common statement about players and ACL injuries.
Also, I saw Jones a couple weeks ago and there are physical signs he is behind schedule in his rehab. Doesn't mean that will be the same come training camp.
Still has a few months left… I’ve dealt with an ACL. It’s not a linear recovery. I’m sure he’s on target. Just completed a little over 5 months.
Ive had mine repaired as well, he is currently behind and not doing the things someone can do at 4 months. I said, he looks to be behind in the present and that can change come training camp...I know you want to prove your point but good lord.
Not trying to prove anything. Simply saying what ur viewing is not unusual. Again, you also know recovery isn’t linear. Next month as YOU KNOW things can and most likely will change. Where you were and I was at 4 months is not really the way to look at it. Everyone recovers differently and at their own pace. This isn’t one bit alarming. I’ve had several surgeries and this is par for the course. That’s all I’m saying.
Don’t know what to be true? That an ACL recovery has nothing to do with inquiring about the #3 pick. I would disagree. I think a reasonable mind can see them as 2 relatively independent events. I can also take what the GM and DJ has stated PUBLICLY about his recovery. And they have the full details because he’s there rehabbing with at their facility. Moreover, he texted DJ after selecting Nabers to inform him of the pick before the selection was made and gave him Nabers phone number.
You don’t know where the Giants stand in his recovery. He hasn’t had a real practice yet. The Giants won’t have any idea what he looks like until training camp
Ok we’ll see come August.
In the meantime, I’ll take what the GM and DJ has stated since they
Jones is the presumed starter unless Lock shows that he's clearly better than him. If he is, Lock will start.
Not sure why this is becoming a bigger thing than it should be.
The wildcard here is Jones' health. Will he be healthy enough to play in camp? The Giants having an 'open' competition to me has more to do with their concerns about Jones' durability/health than with their views on his talent.
More dependable, able to get the ball out more quickly and downfield.
Here we go again. Didn't Locke say, the Giants made it plain to him that he would back up DJ. Stop listening to these beats. Of course, if DJs injury doesn't come around, different story.
But hurt Jones haters looking for anything to tear him down… what a bunch of crybabies….I thought the draft went as well as it could with the few picks we had after trades… looking forward to the season .
Amazing how some here refuse to listen to management and hang on every word of these beats, who often are wrong.
guys repeating that Jones will be fine are the same ones who told us "Barkley is done b/c of the ACL". Fact of the matter, none of us know where Jones is in his rehab. Also, he will not be the same player post injury till year 2 and that's a common statement about players and ACL injuries.
Also, I saw Jones a couple weeks ago and there are physical signs he is behind schedule in his rehab. Doesn't mean that will be the same come training camp.
Still has a few months left… I’ve dealt with an ACL. It’s not a linear recovery. I’m sure he’s on target. Just completed a little over 5 months.
Ive had mine repaired as well, he is currently behind and not doing the things someone can do at 4 months. I said, he looks to be behind in the present and that can change come training camp...I know you want to prove your point but good lord.
Behind? The last I heard from management was, he's ahead of schedule and they believe he'll be ready for camp. Of course that could change at a moments notice, but right now they're confident.
RE: forcing a pick based on how jones is/isnt recovering would be moronic
they wanted maye because they liked maye (which appears to have been consensus).
by most accounts maye is the least ready to play day 1 anyway (including behind penix, jjm, nix).
you sign drew lock for 5m (and cost yourself a 4th/5th rd comp pick) to protect yourself if jones isn't healthy and devito doesn't progress.
offering to trade 2 firsts + more for maye is about maye. not jones. passing on jjm is about jjm, not jones.
You are kidding right. If the Giants knew Jones was behind schedule(like still can't run) they shouldn't have handled the draft differently.
"It would have been moronic to draft a QB at 6 or trade up if the Giants knew Jones would not be ready for the season."
Are you sure you believe that?
The consensus reporting "fact" doesn't register with me at all.
They knew NE needed to be overwhelmed.
They did not do that.
Are you really sure they tried to trade or for Maye or were they only trying to get Minnesota trade up ahead of them. Another QB taken(so they get the WR they want)
Not saying that is what happened but it is as reasonable as any other assumption.
"It was Drake Maye"
"Drake Maye would have been the guy"
"Had interest in JJ McCarthy but no at pick 6"
"Drew Lock will have a chance to compete"
Via @MikeGarafolo
on NFL Network
a year ago jayden daniels wasnt in maye's stratosphere and he went 1 pick ahead of him. maybe let the year play out?
Doesn't mean they won't draft a QB in the teens.
Each draft is different. Teams like different QBs.
Maybe scholarship days are over @ QB. I hope.
Getting the ball out quick seems to be all anyone cares about. But unless Daboll can fix Lock, him getting the ball out quick is going to lead to heavy turnovers because he’s reckless.
Maybe scholarship days are over @ QB. I hope.
The QB should be whoever can hit the open man (Nabers) in full stride. Eli used to hang Beckham out to dry.
We’ll see.
However, the era of, “Just because he got injured doesn’t mean he’ll lose
his job.” in the NFL has been over for years. Especially when that person isn’t very good at their job, at all.
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Perhaps I'm naive, but based on our attempted trade up to get Drake/the Hawks or Broncos GM saying publicly that Lock signed with us on the opportunity he'd get a chance to compete for the starting job/Joe's 'As of this moment' comment about DJ being the starter/Jones' body language in Dab's team meeting...
Maybe scholarship days are over @ QB. I hope.
_____________
The QB should be whoever can hit the open man (Nabers) in full stride. Eli used to hang Beckham out to dry.
Eli made Beckham millions upon millions of dollars. What has Beckham done without Eli? One half of a decent season in LA?
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next year has no in the same stratosphere as Maye. They are screwed at the position for a while unless someone takes a huge leap and they are in position to get him.
Doesn't mean they won't draft a QB in the teens.
Each draft is different. Teams like different QBs.
Unless we have the #1 overall pick I don’t know how anybody can be confident this franchise will add a QB next year.
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Perhaps I'm naive, but based on our attempted trade up to get Drake/the Hawks or Broncos GM saying publicly that Lock signed with us on the opportunity he'd get a chance to compete for the starting job/Joe's 'As of this moment' comment about DJ being the starter/Jones' body language in Dab's team meeting...
Maybe scholarship days are over @ QB. I hope.
_____________
The QB should be whoever can hit the open man (Nabers) in full stride. Eli used to hang Beckham out to dry.
Hitting receivers in stride.
HOWEVER, in his first three years as a Giant (pre-injury), Beckham made Eli and the Giants much better. He was amazing during that 3-year run.
Nabers can catch a 5-yard pass and turn it into a 80-yard TD. So can Hyatt. There is a ton of speed and quickness on this offense now.
I don't buy that, Maye has serious issues and could easily be mediocre or worse.
Sanders, Milroe, Ward, Ewers, Beck, Dart, Leonard, Allar make a group of 8 QBs to watch. There will be 3-4 selected in round 1.
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next year has no in the same stratosphere as Maye. They are screwed at the position for a while unless someone takes a huge leap and they are in position to get him.
I don't buy that, Maye has serious issues and could easily be mediocre or worse.
Sanders, Milroe, Ward, Ewers, Beck, Dart, Leonard, Allar make a group of 8 QBs to watch. There will be 3-4 selected in round 1.
There are a few others I would add to the preseason watch list. Jim Nagy had a tweet with a few of the names (plus others that currently don’t do it for me).
Nabers can catch a 5-yard pass and turn it into a 80-yard TD. So can Hyatt. There is a ton of speed and quickness on this offense now.
I'd be careful about counting chickens before they hatch again. This time last year people were talking about how Paris Campbell and Hyatt's speed were going to overwhelm people and Darren Waller was going to be a problem for defenses.
Nabers can likely be counted on to be a big time playmaker, but a lot of names on that list can either be nonfactors in 2024 or slide the wrong way in their development.
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In comment 16499958 ElitoCanton said:
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next year has no in the same stratosphere as Maye. They are screwed at the position for a while unless someone takes a huge leap and they are in position to get him.
I don't buy that, Maye has serious issues and could easily be mediocre or worse.
Sanders, Milroe, Ward, Ewers, Beck, Dart, Leonard, Allar make a group of 8 QBs to watch. There will be 3-4 selected in round 1.
There are a few others I would add to the preseason watch list. Jim Nagy had a tweet with a few of the names (plus others that currently don’t do it for me).
It will be a solid, average QB year, nothing like the Pickett draft. Somewhere in between that and the 2024 draft. There's also a good chance we pick well ahead of all other QB needy teams.
Why wouldn’t you want to see an open competition and the best man wins? What’s wrong with that? Why the hell should Daniel Freakin Jones just be handed the job? How the hell wouldn’t EVERY Giants fan want the best QB taking snaps? I’ll tell you why, you’re all a fucking cult. That’s why
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In comment 16499973 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Perhaps I'm naive, but based on our attempted trade up to get Drake/the Hawks or Broncos GM saying publicly that Lock signed with us on the opportunity he'd get a chance to compete for the starting job/Joe's 'As of this moment' comment about DJ being the starter/Jones' body language in Dab's team meeting...
Maybe scholarship days are over @ QB. I hope.
_____________
The QB should be whoever can hit the open man (Nabers) in full stride. Eli used to hang Beckham out to dry.
Eli made Beckham millions upon millions of dollars. What has Beckham done without Eli? One half of a decent season in LA?
Won a super bowl.
This is nonsense.
Here’s a legitimate question. Bases on what we’ve seen so far in their respective careers, why is DeVito not mentioned in this upcoming season’s QB competition? Considering we have nothing else at the position, we may as well give him a shot too.
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In comment 16499958 ElitoCanton said:
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next year has no in the same stratosphere as Maye. They are screwed at the position for a while unless someone takes a huge leap and they are in position to get him.
I don't buy that, Maye has serious issues and could easily be mediocre or worse.
Sanders, Milroe, Ward, Ewers, Beck, Dart, Leonard, Allar make a group of 8 QBs to watch. There will be 3-4 selected in round 1.
There are a few others I would add to the preseason watch list. Jim Nagy had a tweet with a few of the names (plus others that currently don’t do it for me).
I see the list you mentioned. Dillon Gabriel is one I should add to the 8, the others could break out too. Those 9 (with Gabriel included) are the big ones to watch imo. There will be good options in rd1 2025.
Fail.
Garafolo said much later for JJM in the clip, no chance it would have been him if Nabers went at 5.
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
Mitchell went at 52.
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next year has no in the same stratosphere as Maye. They are screwed at the position for a while unless someone takes a huge leap and they are in position to get him.
I don't buy that, Maye has serious issues and could easily be mediocre or worse.
Sanders, Milroe, Ward, Ewers, Beck, Dart, Leonard, Allar make a group of 8 QBs to watch. There will be 3-4 selected in round 1.
I’ll take Dart or Beck next year.
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
As much as I want Jones gone, give me A as there is no WR1 from that group just more complementary pieces. We also would have probably gotten one or two much lesser DB’s in your scenario in Rounds 3&6.
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
You're forgetting A includes Nubin whereas B does not.
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
You know what I would say. Nevertheless, it doesn't matter. I see Schoen's line of thinking. It's a tricky situation with DJ. Mara made it clear he wanted DJ signed long term. I don't think he would have gotten the franchise tag even if we could have. We still owe him 70 million minimum over the next 2 seasons. I get why Schoen went with the elite prospect in Nabers.
I'm not playing the hindsight games.
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
Exactly, all everyone said it’s a deep WR draft and we would have plenty of options to get a WR in the 2nd round which I thought was nonsense. Looking at how the draft played out who was the WR1 we could picked?!
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In comment 16499958 ElitoCanton said:
Quote:
next year has no in the same stratosphere as Maye. They are screwed at the position for a while unless someone takes a huge leap and they are in position to get him.
I don't buy that, Maye has serious issues and could easily be mediocre or worse.
Sanders, Milroe, Ward, Ewers, Beck, Dart, Leonard, Allar make a group of 8 QBs to watch. There will be 3-4 selected in round 1.
I’ll take Dart or Beck next year.
I like them both, love Dart.
I'm of the belief everything is on the table for the next QB. Draft, veteran signing or veteran trade. For how quick these guys are getting churned out, who's to say they don't trade for Maye in 2 years?
Another name to keep an eye on - Bryce Young. Schoen has a great relationship with Morgan and Tepper is a ticking time bomb. If Young struggles again, I could see Schoen trading for him.
The bottom line is, I think the next QB isn't as simple as a top 5 drafted guy.
in 2024 or 2025, they are walking into a really good situation now with Nabers, Robinson, Hyatt, Slayton, McKenzie, Theo Johnson, Tyrone Tracey.
Nabers can catch a 5-yard pass and turn it into a 80-yard TD. So can Hyatt. There is a ton of speed and quickness on this offense now. /////
I'd be careful about counting chickens before they hatch again. This time last year people were talking about how Paris Campbell and Hyatt's speed were going to overwhelm people and Darren Waller was going to be a problem for defenses.
Nabers can likely be counted on to be a big time playmaker, but a lot of names on that list can either be nonfactors in 2024 or slide the wrong way in their development.
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
Easily the latter.
Given how rare it is for prospects to talk about where they “think” they’ll go and go into as much detail as JJM did with NYG. I’m fully prepared to be haunted by him and those comments when he solidifies as a franchise QB.
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
I'd take McCarthy. Schoen would say that you aren't factoring in McKinney's replacement though with the second round pick.
I'll say this on McCarthy though. Drafting another perceived limited QB by many following Jones isn't ideal. As Terps has said, go back and read the national title game thread. The comments towards him were nothing along the lines of a top 10 pick.
That’s exactly what’s a team with a bad QB coming off an acl would ask their QB to do
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In comment 16499973 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Perhaps I'm naive, but based on our attempted trade up to get Drake/the Hawks or Broncos GM saying publicly that Lock signed with us on the opportunity he'd get a chance to compete for the starting job/Joe's 'As of this moment' comment about DJ being the starter/Jones' body language in Dab's team meeting...
Maybe scholarship days are over @ QB. I hope.
_____________
The QB should be whoever can hit the open man (Nabers) in full stride. Eli used to hang Beckham out to dry.
Eli made Beckham millions upon millions of dollars. What has Beckham done without Eli? One half of a decent season in LA?
The entire 2016 offense was a 5 yard pass to Odell that he turned into big gain or a touchdown
That way they can adjust their thinking next year in regards to what they need to look for in a qb draft pick.
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the 47th pick is very likely a WR, right?
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
I'd take McCarthy. Schoen would say that you aren't factoring in McKinney's replacement though with the second round pick.
I'll say this on McCarthy though. Drafting another perceived limited QB by many following Jones isn't ideal. As Terps has said, go back and read the national title game thread. The comments towards him were nothing along the lines of a top 10 pick.
Yea but those comments would be from a bunch of guys bullshitting on a sports message board.
The NFL market has spoken. Penix, McCarthy and Nix went at 8, 10 and 12 respectively. That’s what they’re worth, for now at least. It’s not as if the Giants passed at 6 and these guys went in the 30’s. Everyone pretty much knew this would be the case going into the draft.
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That they don’t have ranked as highly as Maye. They’re probably not staring at a prospect like Nabers at a non-qb premium position of massive need next year as another option either. He’s the best non-qb prospect we’ve even had the option of drafting since Ive been following drafts (late 90s) if we’re factoring in consensus + positional value. There was likely a point they were willing to draft JJM and it very well could have been the very next pick or shortly thereafter.
Garafolo said much later for JJM in the clip, no chance it would have been him if Nabers went at 5.
I did see it, I’m not going to put too much stock in a single word. The point I’m really making is against the argument that they’ll only move on a qb when the stars align. Don’t agree with that. What gets somewhat lost in these discussions is how rare of a prospect Nabers was at the 3rd highest paid position in football. Since I’ve been following, we haven’t even had the option to draft an elite blue chipper at a premium position. He’s a more highly regarded prospect than the 3 we drafted in the top 10 recently (Thomas had warts and detractors) better than others like Chubb and the Ohio State corner I’m blanking on at the moment. Similar caliber prospect to Saquan, Nelson and Sean Taylor but at a much more impactful position. The opportunity cost of passing on him for what was clearly a red chip tier of QBs factored. If we’re picking in the teens or even a weaker top of the draft the math will change.
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In comment 16500010 Eric Quote:
in 2024 or 2025, they are walking into a really good situation now with Nabers, Robinson, Hyatt, Slayton, McKenzie, Theo Johnson, Tyrone Tracey.
Nabers can catch a 5-yard pass and turn it into a 80-yard TD. So can Hyatt. There is a ton of speed and quickness on this offense now. /////
I'd be careful about counting chickens before they hatch again. This time last year people were talking about how Paris Campbell and Hyatt's speed were going to overwhelm people and Darren Waller was going to be a problem for defenses.
Nabers can likely be counted on to be a big time playmaker, but a lot of names on that list can either be nonfactors in 2024 or slide the wrong way in their development.
ding ding ding Theo Johnson? Really? Not like you, Eric
You guys can be miserable sour pusses all you want. The Giants nailed this draft and I'm going to enjoy it.
Quote:
the 47th pick is very likely a WR, right?
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
Exactly, all everyone said it’s a deep WR draft and we would have plenty of options to get a WR in the 2nd round which I thought was nonsense. Looking at how the draft played out who was the WR1 we could picked?!
We have an opposite view here. I think it was a very deep WR draft and would not be the least surprised if one, two, or three of the WRs in basket B is really good. Maybe not the caliber - on paper - as Nabers, but high quality.
And very good WRs are very valuable with the right triggerman, right?
You're forgetting A includes Nubin whereas B does not.
I like Nubin, but safety is not a premium position. So, for the sake of hypothetical, it doesn't feel like a big loss...
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In comment 16500060 bw in dc said:
Quote:
the 47th pick is very likely a WR, right?
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
Exactly, all everyone said it’s a deep WR draft and we would have plenty of options to get a WR in the 2nd round which I thought was nonsense. Looking at how the draft played out who was the WR1 we could picked?!
We have an opposite view here. I think it was a very deep WR draft and would not be the least surprised if one, two, or three of the WRs in basket B is really good. Maybe not the caliber - on paper - as Nabers, but high quality.
And very good WRs are very valuable with the right triggerman, right?
Taking the field, that is a bold strategy there Cotton. If you look at who the NFL valued in the vicinity of pick 47 I am just not sure I see a WR1 anywhere close to what Nabers can do.
I'm of the belief everything is on the table for the next QB. Draft, veteran signing or veteran trade. For how quick these guys are getting churned out, who's to say they don't trade for Maye in 2 years?
Another name to keep an eye on - Bryce Young. Schoen has a great relationship with Morgan and Tepper is a ticking time bomb. If Young struggles again, I could see Schoen trading for him.
The bottom line is, I think the next QB isn't as simple as a top 5 drafted guy.
I think there is next to zero chance that Maye or Young are available after two years because the team that drafted them thought they were busts, but we really like them. I can’t think of any precedent for something like that with a guy then turning into a solid player.
I think there is a very good chance Dak Prescott is in play next year.
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In comment 16500060 bw in dc said:
Quote:
the 47th pick is very likely a WR, right?
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
Exactly, all everyone said it’s a deep WR draft and we would have plenty of options to get a WR in the 2nd round which I thought was nonsense. Looking at how the draft played out who was the WR1 we could picked?!
We have an opposite view here. I think it was a very deep WR draft and would not be the least surprised if one, two, or three of the WRs in basket B is really good. Maybe not the caliber - on paper - as Nabers, but high quality.
And very good WRs are very valuable with the right triggerman, right?
It sure is precious watching you lose your mind over JJ McCarthy after you mocked him the entire season. Even came up with your clever “JMFC” moniker to make fun of those that liked him. Now you’re beside yourself because they didn’t pick him at 6. Any wonder why you can’t be taken seriously? This is example 1 million…
You guys can be miserable sour pusses all you want. The Giants nailed this draft and I'm going to enjoy it.
Did 1925 Giants Way offer you a ton of money today to buy the site? ;)
I need to start tuning those people out and stop arguing with them.
I need to start tuning those people out and stop arguing with them.
BBI mute does wonders.
I'm floored anyone is optimistic about Lock. The one chance he got to start a season he was the most inaccurate quarterback in the NFL.
He was worst among starters in completion percentage and worst among starters in on-target throws. The guy was a complete mess.
It sure is precious watching you lose your mind over JJ McCarthy after you mocked him the entire season. Even came up with your clever “JMFC” moniker to make fun of those that liked him. Now you’re beside yourself because they didn’t pick him at 6. Any wonder why you can’t be taken seriously? This is example 1 million…
Losing my mind? Beside myself?
What are you twelve?
I proposed a hypothetical.
I need to start tuning those people out and stop arguing with them.
Well to be fair, everyone on this board either loved when Schoen did not pick up Jones’ fifth year option, or when they signed him to his current contract.
Even on BBI there can’t be anybody who hated both of those moves.
I wouldn't say no big deal. While I completely agree with the direction they took, not getting the QB they wanted in 2024 is a huge deal. There is massive pressure on them now to figure it out, and no easy solutions.
HOWEVER, in his first three years as a Giant (pre-injury), Beckham made Eli and the Giants much better. He was amazing during that 3-year run.
Beckham was on a Hall of Fame trajectory to start his career. I was not a fan of the trade, although subsequent injuries made it a win.
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More dependable, able to get the ball out more quickly and downfield.
Getting the ball out quick seems to be all anyone cares about. But unless Daboll can fix Lock, him getting the ball out quick is going to lead to heavy turnovers because he’s reckless.
Lock cannot be worse than 2023 Daniel Jones trying to fit into Daboll's offense.
You think people are “looking for anything” to tear Jones down? You can just post his stats. Nobody is spending hours hunched over the computers trying to find some support for not liking Jones.
You're not on these shows to be a glorified BBI poster.
Getting the ball out quick seems to be all anyone cares about. But unless Daboll can fix Lock, him getting the ball out quick is going to lead to heavy turnovers because he’s reckless.
Lock cannot be worse than 2023 Daniel Jones trying to fit into Daboll's offense.
I take you haven't seen much of Luck. He's mucho bad.
Quote:
next year has no in the same stratosphere as Maye. They are screwed at the position for a while unless someone takes a huge leap and they are in position to get him.
I don't buy that, Maye has serious issues and could easily be mediocre or worse.
Sanders, Milroe, Ward, Ewers, Beck, Dart, Leonard, Allar make a group of 8 QBs to watch. There will be 3-4 selected in round 1.
I would've had no problem with the Giants drafting Maye, with a trade up.
But to pretend that he is some type of Elway sure thing doesn't make sense to me.
As for next year's qb draft class, that changes all the time.
How was Burrow viewed going into his senior year? Tons of other examples.
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It sure is precious watching you lose your mind over JJ McCarthy after you mocked him the entire season. Even came up with your clever “JMFC” moniker to make fun of those that liked him. Now you’re beside yourself because they didn’t pick him at 6. Any wonder why you can’t be taken seriously? This is example 1 million…
Losing my mind? Beside myself?
What are you twelve?
I proposed a hypothetical.
Oh please. You’ve been whining about them not taking McCarthy since the pick was made. And we all know you had less than zero use for him all season. You ripped him every chance you got
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The 2024 QB ship has sailed, no big deal.
I wouldn't say no big deal. While I completely agree with the direction they took, not getting the QB they wanted in 2024 is a huge deal. There is massive pressure on them now to figure it out, and no easy solutions.
No big deal to me I should say, the next QB will have a better supporting cast to work with. All we can hope is for us to strike gold in 2025 drafting a qb with a good supporting cast. Look at Minnesota with JJM, they are giving him the best possible support structure with their roster on offense and KOC. We still owe DJ at least 70 million over the next 2 years, it just wasn't the right time. Cest la vie.
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These guys are full of BS. No team in the NFL is going to ask their QB coming off an ACL to 'compete' for their job in training camp. None! Now if jones struggles early in the season he may be on something of a short leash but that's about it.
Why wouldn’t you want to see an open competition and the best man wins? What’s wrong with that? Why the hell should Daniel Freakin Jones just be handed the job? How the hell wouldn’t EVERY Giants fan want the best QB taking snaps? I’ll tell you why, you’re all a fucking cult. That’s why
Agree, you have a QB coming off ACL surgery and you think the team should just hand him the job??? Maybe see if he is able to perform first?
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In comment 16500030 widmerseyebrow said:
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In comment 16500010 Eric Quote:
in 2024 or 2025, they are walking into a really good situation now with Nabers, Robinson, Hyatt, Slayton, McKenzie, Theo Johnson, Tyrone Tracey.
Nabers can catch a 5-yard pass and turn it into a 80-yard TD. So can Hyatt. There is a ton of speed and quickness on this offense now. /////
I'd be careful about counting chickens before they hatch again.
ding ding ding Theo Johnson? Really? Not like you, Eric
You guys can be miserable sour pusses all you want. The Giants nailed this draft and I'm going to enjoy it.
Just Theo, Eric, just Theo
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In comment 16500060 bw in dc said:
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the 47th pick is very likely a WR, right?
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
Exactly, all everyone said it’s a deep WR draft and we would have plenty of options to get a WR in the 2nd round which I thought was nonsense. Looking at how the draft played out who was the WR1 we could picked?!
We have an opposite view here. I think it was a very deep WR draft and would not be the least surprised if one, two, or three of the WRs in basket B is really good. Maybe not the caliber - on paper - as Nabers, but high quality.
And very good WRs are very valuable with the right triggerman, right?
There will be good WRs in that group for sure. We can agree on that. But we have already have good WRs on the roster in WanDale Robinson (who’s shown more so far) and Hyatt. But a WR1 in that so called “basket” is much harder to project. Nabers has top 5 WR potential and can be a true difference maker like an OBJ, Justin Jefferson, Tyreek, Chase, etc. I don’t think you bypass that for JJM/Penix.
And the WRs available at that point were a basket of Corley, Mitchell, Burton, Wilson, Tez, Franklin, etc.
A. Jones + Nabers
or
B. McCarthy + the WR basket
Getting aboard the Hindsight Train 20/20, if those were the choices pre-draft, which choice would you have signed for?
The most frequent comps I see given for Nabers are Tyreke Hill and Jamar Chase. The most frequent comps I see for JJM are Alex Smith and Andy Dalton
So I would have made the same choice as Schoen
I'm floored anyone is optimistic about Lock. The one chance he got to start a season he was the most inaccurate quarterback in the NFL.
He was worst among starters in completion percentage and worst among starters in on-target throws. The guy was a complete mess.
I thought it was just me. I’m completely baffled about the Lock love here. Think it has more to do with not wanting to DJ on the field so the alternative is always better.
At least DeVito can use his legs. Lock is a statue and erratic.
of course he does.
hes going to be the starter the whole offseason and start of training camp....
he has the stronger arm, less injury history. willing to take shots.
daniel jones had surgery late nov. people are expecting too much out of him. put him on the kyler murray scheudle.
Of course he does. Certain posters don’t want to see this and are waiting in the wings to bitch and complain and derail as many threads as possible when Jones eventually starts because he is the best QB on the roster.
Was it in the context of Jones not being ready for camp?
The groundswell is starting. This is feeling like the Dave Brown/Danny Kanell/Kent Graham cycle of backup QBs fighting for the starting job until the real QB comes along.
I just don’t see it. But let the best QB win.
i dont think he can win the job outright vs a healthy jones.
ive seen lock play.
if you tell me DJ without full use of his legs rushing back from ACL, then yes he could win it.
once you factor in DJs legs (murray was running well after PUP), DJ will win.
Full 2024 NFL Draft Recap | Move the Sticks - ( New Window )
This is crazy pills level. Anyone who has seen Lock play knows you're just holding your breath waiting for him to do something ridiculous.
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just said on "Move the Sticks" that "Drew Lock has a really good shot at winning that job."
of course he does.
hes going to be the starter the whole offseason and start of training camp....
he has the stronger arm, less injury history. willing to take shots.
daniel jones had surgery late nov. people are expecting too much out of him. put him on the kyler murray scheudle.
Kyler Murray had surgery in Jan. Therefore, they are not on the same schedule at all. DJ will be ready for the season.
McAdoo's scheming helped but of course the ultimate coaching was Coughlin. The line wasn't as bad as it became in 2015-2017. The selection of Ereck Flowers was an abomination.
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just said on "Move the Sticks" that "Drew Lock has a really good shot at winning that job."
The groundswell is starting. This is feeling like the Dave Brown/Danny Kanell/Kent Graham cycle of backup QBs fighting for the starting job until the real QB comes along.
No groundswell at all… just ppl who have wishful thinking and/or rather not see DJ take the field again as Giant. Many here want them to not play DJ because of the 2025 injury guarantee and others are telling themselves, Devito, Lock, Taylor anyone really is simply better than DJ. I’m confident DJ will start 1) he’s more talented than Lock and he’s being paid millions. Jeremiah is out of touch here.
Problem is - he has been wildly inaccurate and those issues haven’t corrected themselves.
I think a lot of teams traded down… don’t have the numbers but felt like a lot of movement and maneuvering going on.
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In comment 16500183 Eric from BBI said:
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just said on "Move the Sticks" that "Drew Lock has a really good shot at winning that job."
of course he does.
hes going to be the starter the whole offseason and start of training camp....
he has the stronger arm, less injury history. willing to take shots.
daniel jones had surgery late nov. people are expecting too much out of him. put him on the kyler murray scheudle.
Kyler Murray had surgery in Jan. Therefore, they are not on the same schedule at all. DJ will be ready for the season.
Kyler Murray tore his ACL December 12th so say DJ will be ready a month before Murray was. It's not 2 months off though.
The Giants had one less pick than normal.
8 months would be 7/22.
The Giants had one less pick than normal.
I'd say 10 months is being more fair. 8 months is super fast.
Any topics that discuss quarterback or specifically Daniel Jones get so tiresome so quickly.
Eric, is it possible to add another thread type:
NJT (Non Jones Thread).
I'd have that filter on all the time!
:-)
Any topics that discuss quarterback or specifically Daniel Jones get so tiresome so quickly.
Eric, is it possible to add another thread type:
NJT (Non Jones Thread).
I'd have that filter on all the time!
:-)
It's only going to get worse.
I think it's becoming an addiction for some.
If Jones is cleared, I can't see anyway he's not starting games over Lock. He's one of the highest paid players in the NFL. That alone will get him leash.
I do think, however, Jones can play his way out of the job, but it's going to have to because of real game performance, not camp.
If Locks does get the job over a health Jones during camp, that will absolutely shock me. But that would be awesome if Daboll would make that call...
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in these 32 team reviews when the consistent comment was "Giants did well without having a lot of picks."
The Giants had one less pick than normal.
Average ACL recovery is 9-12 months. DJ will be ready to play.
I'd say 10 months is being more fair. 8 months is super fast.
with the 32 comp picks every team should average 8 picks if every team evenly divided. then the nyg + others being 25% under the average amount mean other teams are 25% over.
Teams were really wheeling and dealing
Good breakdown of trades and picks - ( New Window )
Any topics that discuss quarterback or specifically Daniel Jones get so tiresome so quickly.
Eric, is it possible to add another thread type:
NJT (Non Jones Thread).
You do realize the owner of this site said these things leading into the draft:
-- If you don't have a good QB, you don't have a team
-- Jones is done
-- We are drafting a QB
-- Intel was indicating taking a QB nearly fait accompli
-- Schoen is smart enough to realize we need a new QB
-- Etc
So, what do you expect the dominant discussion to be in the aftermath?
ARIZ 12
ATL 8
BALT 9
BUFF 10
CAR 8
CHI 5
CINN 10
CLEV 6
DALL 8
DEN 7
DET 6
GB 11
HOU 9
INDY 9
JAX 9
JETS 7
KC 7
LAC 8
LAR 10
LV 8
MIA 7
MINN 7
NE 9
NO 7
NYG 6
PHIL 9
PITT 7
SF 8
SEA 8
TB 7
TENN 7
WAS 9
giants didnt bother trading down (:
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can someone explain to me how every team in the NFL seemed to have 10 picks in this draft except for the Giants? Yes, there are comp picks and yes there are trades, but in reviewing the draft reviews, everyone else seemed to have a bunch of picks.
giants didnt bother trading down (:
Or trade guys like Barkley and McKinney for draft picks during the season. Rather than gambling on comp picks when they knew that they needed to sign replacements anyway due to poor drafting they should have been hoarding draft picks.
Whatever works.
Focus on happened.
They knew NE needed to be overwhelmed.
Did they REALLY try to trade for Maye?
They had an opportunity To draft 3 QBs that were drafted by other teams in rd1.
They are not banking on Lock winning a competition. He is insurance. Technically every position is a competition.
Focus on the actions of the team, ignore the noise.
They
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In comment 16500214 Eric from BBI said:
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can someone explain to me how every team in the NFL seemed to have 10 picks in this draft except for the Giants? Yes, there are comp picks and yes there are trades, but in reviewing the draft reviews, everyone else seemed to have a bunch of picks.
giants didnt bother trading down (:
Or trade guys like Barkley and McKinney for draft picks during the season. Rather than gambling on comp picks when they knew that they needed to sign replacements anyway due to poor drafting they should have been hoarding draft picks.
Mara said himself he doesn't like giving up and he wanted to sign Saquon. Was really dumb, that could have gotten us to pick 3. I do like Nabers a lot though and I have faith it will all work out in the end (not with DJ).
Every year players come out of nowhere ...
and we know historically half the draft picks won't work out at least.
they were going to select Drake Maye???
I would have bet the farm on Jayden Daniels. And then some.
If it’s a real competition there’s a very real chance Lock wins the job.
If it’s a real competition there’s a very real chance Lock wins the job.
You are confusing training camp 2022 with 2023 in a major way. For 2023, Jones was a made man with his new contract and coming off making the playoffs. No one was talking about Taylor vs Jones.
And even going back to 2022, the talk of Taylor outplaying Jones had faded by the start of the regular season, because people had seen enough of Taylor in the exhibition games to know he wasn't the answer.
You are invited to provide a link to those reports and/or BBI threads discussing same.
An exact carbon copy of what we saw in the regular season.
Lions practice - ( New Window )
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Schoen talked a lot of about doing QB homework to be prepared when these guys become available via trade or through FA.
I'm of the belief everything is on the table for the next QB. Draft, veteran signing or veteran trade. For how quick these guys are getting churned out, who's to say they don't trade for Maye in 2 years?
Another name to keep an eye on - Bryce Young. Schoen has a great relationship with Morgan and Tepper is a ticking time bomb. If Young struggles again, I could see Schoen trading for him.
The bottom line is, I think the next QB isn't as simple as a top 5 drafted guy.
I think there is next to zero chance that Maye or Young are available after two years because the team that drafted them thought they were busts, but we really like them. I can’t think of any precedent for something like that with a guy then turning into a solid player.
I think there is a very good chance Dak Prescott is in play next year.
Steve Young spent 2 seasons with Tampa Bay before being traded to SF. Granted he had to spend 4 1/2 seasons as Montana's backup, but when he got his chance he turned into a lot more than a "solid player" winning 2 NFL MVPs and a Super Bowl.
I might argue that Jim Plunkett also qualifies, winning a Super Bowl with his 3rd team, but Young is the better example.
An exact carbon copy of what we saw in the regular season. Lions practice - ( New Window )
From the article:
“I just missed a couple of them that normally I feel pretty good about,” Jones said. “I’ve just got to be sharp with those and make sure we’re taking advantage of the opportunities that we have.”
Jones and the Giants offense had been firing on all cylinders during the 10 training camp practices in East Rutherford, N.J. But the Lions’ defense wasn’t nearly as hospitable in the Giants’ first sparring match with an opposing team.
"Jones and the Giants offense had been firing on all cylinders during the 10 training camp practices in East Rutherford."
The article itself refutes your point. There was no training camp controversy. It was one day. We were not "hearing all offseaon" about Tyrod Taylor. Not in training camp 2023.
The lions practice was the canary in the coal mine.
This also comes as no surprise
Hyatt has done his best work with the second-team offense, flashing his speed on a long touchdown pass from backup quarterback Tyrod Taylor during Sunday’s practice. It still seems likely Hyatt will start his rookie season primarily as a deep threat, but that will provide immediate value.
Camp - ( New Window )
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In comment 16500071 Sean said:
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Schoen talked a lot of about doing QB homework to be prepared when these guys become available via trade or through FA.
I'm of the belief everything is on the table for the next QB. Draft, veteran signing or veteran trade. For how quick these guys are getting churned out, who's to say they don't trade for Maye in 2 years?
Another name to keep an eye on - Bryce Young. Schoen has a great relationship with Morgan and Tepper is a ticking time bomb. If Young struggles again, I could see Schoen trading for him.
The bottom line is, I think the next QB isn't as simple as a top 5 drafted guy.
I think there is next to zero chance that Maye or Young are available after two years because the team that drafted them thought they were busts, but we really like them. I can’t think of any precedent for something like that with a guy then turning into a solid player.
I think there is a very good chance Dak Prescott is in play next year.
Steve Young spent 2 seasons with Tampa Bay before being traded to SF. Granted he had to spend 4 1/2 seasons as Montana's backup, but when he got his chance he turned into a lot more than a "solid player" winning 2 NFL MVPs and a Super Bowl.
I might argue that Jim Plunkett also qualifies, winning a Super Bowl with his 3rd team, but Young is the better example.
I thought of 3 more QBs whose original teams considered them "busts" and who turned out to be "solid players".
Doug Williams and Trent Difer both won Super Bowls with their 2nd teams, while Vinny Testaverde was at least a solid QB, who played until he was 44.
Kyler Murray had surgery in Jan. Therefore, they are not on the same schedule at all. DJ will be ready for the season.////
Kyler Murray tore his ACL December 12th so say DJ will be ready a month before Murray was. It's not 2 months off though.
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just said on "Move the Sticks" that "Drew Lock has a really good shot at winning that job."
The groundswell is starting. This is feeling like the Dave Brown/Danny Kanell/Kent Graham cycle of backup QBs fighting for the starting job until the real QB comes along.
It’s 1998. Let’s enjoy it. We are still talking about the Giants in 2000-2003 because it was so entertaining. And I think Daboll will prove to be a better coach than Fassel.
Everyone should listen to this clip. "Emphasis on Drew Lock."
It's known they're looking for Jones' replacement. Only those in denial or willfully ignorant will try to say otherwise. That said, I expect Jones to win the gig if he's healthy. Lock's not the answer, he's a backup just like Jones.
I am not surprised at that and actually go back to Schoen's pre draft PC, he actually talks about the difficulty in trading up within the division. That to me says they explored that option already and it wasn't viable.
The last time Lock had the reigns, he was dismal, and the Broncos traded for Bridgewater to replace him.
These are dark times for the Giants.
The last time Lock had the reigns, he was dismal, and the Broncos traded for Bridgewater to replace him.
These are dark times for the Giants.
"These are dark times for the Giants."
The Giants have a much better roster now than when they did in 2022. Does that resonate with someone like you at all?
You guys will just continue to bitch and moan and be a bunch of pussies about the upcoming season. Vs the rest of us who actually look forward to watching the 2nd and 3rd year players continuing to develop, and see how Jones responds to the new version of this offense, sink or swim.
Yeah, Jones likes to run. So fucking what. He'll be able to run again, just like he once did. The knee will be fine.
Deal with the cards they got. I hope that Thompson will be given a chance to prove he can compete in the NFL (I did not say QB#1).
DJ, Lock, Cutlets, Thompson. Rinse and repeat in 2025 Draft.
Teams started taking away Jones’ easy time in the second half of 2022 and the passing game has been a disaster since. If he’s going to be less effective, or worse - hesitant of a runner defenses are going to force him to make decisions in the passing game like they did in the second half of 2022 and in 2023. He’s proven he can’t do that.
Production after ACL recovery - ( New Window )
2022: 5th year option declined and a pending FA. The playoff win sealed his contract.
2024: Potential out in the contract & looming injury guarantee.
I think one thing this entire board agrees with, Jones needs to play well this year to be here in 2025. I don't expect the injury guarantee to come into play unless they are struggling in November. The neck makes it tricky though.
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tried to trade up with Commanders to get Maye.
I am not surprised at that and actually go back to Schoen's pre draft PC, he actually talks about the difficulty in trading up within the division. That to me says they explored that option already and it wasn't viable.
Not a big deal, I'd be willing to bet they talked to the Bears also as well as many other teams in front and behind. Due dilligence.
They would have been 3rd or 4th I believe depending on SOS if everything else remained the same
This was my biggest takeaway. Not only did they try to replace Jones, but if someone outplays him in preseason, they have a chance to win the job.
Yeah, Jones likes to run. So fucking what. He'll be able to run again, just like he once did. The knee will be fine.
If you're going to interact with my posts, can you please at a minimum exhibit the emotional regulatory skills of my 2-year-old? And can you also try to muster a third-grade level of reading comprehension while you're at it?
No one has claimed his ACL is a career threatening injury. But for a player whose only plus skill to-date has been running the football, and with the recovery window pressing against the start of camp or later, and the very well documented evidence many players take a full year to return to their former running ability after a tear, this is a major factor this year.
The flip side is they actually spent less on this year's backup, and brought in a player with demonstrably less experience and success in the league.
Tyrod Taylor is markedly better and more accomplished quarterback than Drew Lock.
Teams started taking away Jones’ easy time in the second half of 2022 and the passing game has been a disaster since. If he’s going to be less effective, or worse - hesitant of a runner defenses are going to force him to make decisions in the passing game like they did in the second half of 2022 and in 2023. He’s proven he can’t do that. Production after ACL recovery - ( New Window )
ACLs are routine surgeries nowadays. DJ will be fine.
This is my biggest frustration. An already weak QB room is now worse off.
Deal with the cards they got. I hope that Thompson will be given a chance to prove he can compete in the NFL (I did not say QB#1).
DJ, Lock, Cutlets, Thompson. Rinse and repeat in 2025 Draft.
Moreover, DJ is a straight-line runner and that’s the 1st thing you can do in an ACL recovery/rehab. DJ doesn’t rely on lateral quickness or jukes like other players and positions.
The question is his recovery timeline and how quickly in 2024 he's both confident in his knee, and physically able to return to his previous running ability.
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The first year after an ACL tear nearly all players see a drop in production from their career averages prior to the tear. If they do get back to pre tear levels it’s usually in year 2.
Teams started taking away Jones’ easy time in the second half of 2022 and the passing game has been a disaster since. If he’s going to be less effective, or worse - hesitant of a runner defenses are going to force him to make decisions in the passing game like they did in the second half of 2022 and in 2023. He’s proven he can’t do that. Production after ACL recovery - ( New Window )
ACLs are routine surgeries nowadays. DJ will be fine.
Being routine surgeries doesn’t mean it doesn’t take two years to return to form. The data is right there, I suggest reading it
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That Jones is the guy because they signed him to a big contract. There's a huge need to find our franchise QB, but let's not pretend they aren't looking.
The flip side is they actually spent less on this year's backup, and brought in a player with demonstrably less experience and success in the league.
Tyrod Taylor is markedly better and more accomplished quarterback than Drew Lock.
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In comment 16500440 ajr2456 said:
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The first year after an ACL tear nearly all players see a drop in production from their career averages prior to the tear. If they do get back to pre tear levels it’s usually in year 2.
Teams started taking away Jones’ easy time in the second half of 2022 and the passing game has been a disaster since. If he’s going to be less effective, or worse - hesitant of a runner defenses are going to force him to make decisions in the passing game like they did in the second half of 2022 and in 2023. He’s proven he can’t do that. Production after ACL recovery - ( New Window )
ACLs are routine surgeries nowadays. DJ will be fine.
Being routine surgeries doesn’t mean it doesn’t take two years to return to form. The data is right there, I suggest reading it
Not arguing whether it takes 2 years to return completely to form. I would agree with that. That’s been stated by a number of players and the data I’m sure demonstrates that.
What I’m saying is the ACL in August/Sept won’t hinder DJ from getting on the field and won’t hinder him from beating out Lock.
Two separate conversations.
Jones worked really hard and is absolutely on schedule, not only to start the season but participate in camp. Im sure they will ease him into it. The draft tells us that Jones appears completely ready to play and the Giants are confident in his recovery. I think owners, coaches, GM and players love Daniel Jones and it is for who he is as much as how he plays. He gets a chance to comeback because of it. QBs need to be leaders of men. Some us may hate that, it doesn’t change what is going happen.
Looking for a QB? Where?
The time for that is over. Free Agency has passed. Cousins & Wilson signed elsewhere. Justin Fields was traded elsewhere
The draft has passed. We didnt take any of the QBs
Daniel Jones is the starter of this team. Drew Lock is his backup. Tommy DeVito is the 3rd string
This is a done deal for the 2024-25 season
Things get earned in professional sports. You know who else was a hard worker and a nice guy? Evan Engram. Nobody on this board gave him the same grace.
Things get earned in professional sports. You know who else was a hard worker and a nice guy? Evan Engram. Nobody on this board gave him the same grace.
You got a poster saying above people love Jones for who he is as much as how he plays.
I, uh, OMG…
But we're talking about alarmingly low bars here.
This is crazy pills level. Anyone who has seen Lock play knows you're just holding your breath waiting for him to do something ridiculous.
Lock will look downfield, but the one thing he doesn’t do is get the ball out quickly. Hopefully Dabes can coach that into him.
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.
We can look back at what I wrote when Jones was injured. The entire staff was going to be part of his rehab. He would be in the building constantly working. I have no proof but I believe what I felt was going to happen, happened. He won them over, they believe he will return.
Jones worked really hard and is absolutely on schedule, not only to start the season but participate in camp. Im sure they will ease him into it. The draft tells us that Jones appears completely ready to play and the Giants are confident in his recovery. I think owners, coaches, GM and players love Daniel Jones and it is for who he is as much as how he plays. He gets a chance to comeback because of it. QBs need to be leaders of men. Some us may hate that, it doesn’t change what is going happen.
I think they are completely confident in his recovery. Shoen has addressed his recovery and says they have been no setbacks and DJ himself has stated he expects to ready for training camp. And they only brought in Lock.
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More dependable, able to get the ball out more quickly and downfield.
Lock will look downfield, but the one thing he doesn’t do is get the ball out quickly. Hopefully Dabes can coach that into him.
Waldron worked on that with him in Seattle last year and the results tended to be positive. But much like Jones, reading complex defenses isn’t always a strength and relies on a lot of orchestrated route concepts and receivers to do the work.
Also the Denver situation was bad, Lock looked like Jones back under Shurmur trying to play street/hero ball, when Broncos canned the OC and QB coach, the bottom fell out for him the next year.
If people are going to keep giving Jones 9 thousand excuses and chances, Lock deserves at least a couple himself.
Full confidence in his recovery… don’t misrepresent what I’m clearly saying.
What I can't believe is that Tisch was in that damn war room all draft and he simply went along with the plan of Lock, DJ and Davito???????
I hope for the best and expect a circus. DJ will be injured triggering the $25 Mil, Lock and Davito will be brutal and it will be another year like last year. I fully expect it.
QBs can improve a lot with game experience and practice reps. Daniel and Lock have had a lot and are still bad. Cutlets did improve quite a bit over the course of the few weeks he played.
He's fine physically - decent enough arm/accuracy and pretty mobile. His mentality seems good - much better than Daniel. With more reps, he has a chance to speed up his processing, which we saw evidence of last year.
Not saying he's great or even good. But considering the competition he should be in the mix
OBJ helped but it was a soft running team and the D was terrible. Reese's great destruction of the LoS was playing out on the field and he pushed for the O change. Then when the next scapegoat (TC) was let go the O fell apart.
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And trade up for a QB. But sure, full confidence in Jones.
Full confidence in his recovery… don’t misrepresent what I’m clearly saying.
Not taking a QB means they had full confidence in his recovery yet tried to trade up last week for one?
What I can't believe is that Tisch was in that damn war room all draft and he simply went along with the plan of Lock, DJ and Davito???????
I hope for the best and expect a circus. DJ will be injured triggering the $25 Mil, Lock and Davito will be brutal and it will be another year like last year. I fully expect it.
Guess you missed the aggressive offer we made for Maye…SMH
I don't know what to say to the people who wanted a QB no matter what. The team obviously didn't believe second tier of QBs were worth the selection at that point in the draft/worth passing up what they saw as a blue chip talent. They may be wrong, but they did put in the time studying these guys and that was the decision they made.
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In comment 16500549 ajr2456 said:
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And trade up for a QB. But sure, full confidence in Jones.
Full confidence in his recovery… don’t misrepresent what I’m clearly saying.
Not taking a QB means they had full confidence in his recovery yet tried to trade up last week for one?
Again, you’re conflating two different things… their interest in Maye has NOTHING to do with their confidence in his recovery from an ACL injury.
We would have been picking 4th with Patriots 5th and Cardinals 3rd I believe, but that's only if they won. If we tied, it wouldn't have changed much.
by most accounts maye is the least ready to play day 1 anyway (including behind penix, jjm, nix).
you sign drew lock for 5m (and cost yourself a 4th/5th rd comp pick) to protect yourself if jones isn't healthy and devito doesn't progress.
offering to trade 2 firsts + more for maye is about maye. not jones. passing on jjm is about jjm, not jones.
I don't know what to say to the people who wanted a QB no matter what. The team obviously didn't believe second tier of QBs were worth the selection at that point in the draft/worth passing up what they saw as a blue chip talent. They may be wrong, but they did put in the time studying these guys and that was the decision they made.
Good riddance, Maye's numbers came against poor defensed. He had 8 tds and 11 ints in 9 games against mediocre to good defenses over the past 2 years. Look at his game logs. He racked up atats against bad defenses and struggled against any legit ones. He crumbles mentally under pressure. We dodged a bullet by getting Nabers instead of Maye.
Don’t know what to be true? That an ACL recovery has nothing to do with inquiring about the #3 pick. I would disagree. I think a reasonable mind can see them as 2 relatively independent events. I can also take what the GM and DJ has stated PUBLICLY about his recovery. And they have the full details because he’s there rehabbing with at their facility. Moreover, he texted DJ after selecting Nabers to inform him of the pick before the selection was made and gave him Nabers phone number.
by most accounts maye is the least ready to play day 1 anyway (including behind penix, jjm, nix).
you sign drew lock for 5m (and cost yourself a 4th/5th rd comp pick) to protect yourself if jones isn't healthy and devito doesn't progress.
offering to trade 2 firsts + more for maye is about maye. not jones. passing on jjm is about jjm, not jones.
Glad trade wasn’t made for a number of reasons. It would have stripped the team of valuable picks to build this team up on both sides of the ball. Based on the proposed trade, we would have had no 2nd rd pick. So WR1 or no McKinney replacement and no 1sr rd pick next year.
And I stated this from the beginning… the cost to trade up AND within a year make a complete about face after giving DJ an extension was NOT likely.
Also, I saw Jones a couple weeks ago and there are physical signs he is behind schedule in his rehab. Doesn't mean that will be the same come training camp.
Also, I saw Jones a couple weeks ago and there are physical signs he is behind schedule in his rehab. Doesn't mean that will be the same come training camp.
Still has a few months left… I’ve dealt with an ACL. It’s not a linear recovery. I’m sure he’s on target. Just completed a little over 5 months.
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Don’t know what to be true? That an ACL recovery has nothing to do with inquiring about the #3 pick. I would disagree. I think a reasonable mind can see them as 2 relatively independent events. I can also take what the GM and DJ has stated PUBLICLY about his recovery. And they have the full details because he’s there rehabbing with at their facility. Moreover, he texted DJ after selecting Nabers to inform him of the pick before the selection was made and gave him Nabers phone number.
You don’t know where the Giants stand in his recovery. He hasn’t had a real practice yet. The Giants won’t have any idea what he looks like until training camp
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guys repeating that Jones will be fine are the same ones who told us "Barkley is done b/c of the ACL". Fact of the matter, none of us know where Jones is in his rehab. Also, he will not be the same player post injury till year 2 and that's a common statement about players and ACL injuries.
Also, I saw Jones a couple weeks ago and there are physical signs he is behind schedule in his rehab. Doesn't mean that will be the same come training camp.
Still has a few months left… I’ve dealt with an ACL. It’s not a linear recovery. I’m sure he’s on target. Just completed a little over 5 months.
Ive had mine repaired as well, he is currently behind and not doing the things someone can do at 4 months. I said, he looks to be behind in the present and that can change come training camp...I know you want to prove your point but good lord.
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In comment 16500783 jestersdead said:
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guys repeating that Jones will be fine are the same ones who told us "Barkley is done b/c of the ACL". Fact of the matter, none of us know where Jones is in his rehab. Also, he will not be the same player post injury till year 2 and that's a common statement about players and ACL injuries.
Also, I saw Jones a couple weeks ago and there are physical signs he is behind schedule in his rehab. Doesn't mean that will be the same come training camp.
Still has a few months left… I’ve dealt with an ACL. It’s not a linear recovery. I’m sure he’s on target. Just completed a little over 5 months.
Ive had mine repaired as well, he is currently behind and not doing the things someone can do at 4 months. I said, he looks to be behind in the present and that can change come training camp...I know you want to prove your point but good lord.
Not trying to prove anything. Simply saying what ur viewing is not unusual. Again, you also know recovery isn’t linear. Next month as YOU KNOW things can and most likely will change. Where you were and I was at 4 months is not really the way to look at it. Everyone recovers differently and at their own pace. This isn’t one bit alarming. I’ve had several surgeries and this is par for the course. That’s all I’m saying.
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In comment 16500693 ajr2456 said:
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Don’t know what to be true? That an ACL recovery has nothing to do with inquiring about the #3 pick. I would disagree. I think a reasonable mind can see them as 2 relatively independent events. I can also take what the GM and DJ has stated PUBLICLY about his recovery. And they have the full details because he’s there rehabbing with at their facility. Moreover, he texted DJ after selecting Nabers to inform him of the pick before the selection was made and gave him Nabers phone number.
You don’t know where the Giants stand in his recovery. He hasn’t had a real practice yet. The Giants won’t have any idea what he looks like until training camp
Ok we’ll see come August.
Not sure why this is becoming a bigger thing than it should be.
Not sure why this is becoming a bigger thing than it should be.
The wildcard here is Jones' health. Will he be healthy enough to play in camp? The Giants having an 'open' competition to me has more to do with their concerns about Jones' durability/health than with their views on his talent.
Here we go again. Didn't Locke say, the Giants made it plain to him that he would back up DJ. Stop listening to these beats. Of course, if DJs injury doesn't come around, different story.
That assumes QB for NYG is a meritocracy, which is a big leap for me to take
Amazing how some here refuse to listen to management and hang on every word of these beats, who often are wrong.
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In comment 16500783 jestersdead said:
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guys repeating that Jones will be fine are the same ones who told us "Barkley is done b/c of the ACL". Fact of the matter, none of us know where Jones is in his rehab. Also, he will not be the same player post injury till year 2 and that's a common statement about players and ACL injuries.
Also, I saw Jones a couple weeks ago and there are physical signs he is behind schedule in his rehab. Doesn't mean that will be the same come training camp.
Still has a few months left… I’ve dealt with an ACL. It’s not a linear recovery. I’m sure he’s on target. Just completed a little over 5 months.
Ive had mine repaired as well, he is currently behind and not doing the things someone can do at 4 months. I said, he looks to be behind in the present and that can change come training camp...I know you want to prove your point but good lord.
Behind? The last I heard from management was, he's ahead of schedule and they believe he'll be ready for camp. Of course that could change at a moments notice, but right now they're confident.
by most accounts maye is the least ready to play day 1 anyway (including behind penix, jjm, nix).
you sign drew lock for 5m (and cost yourself a 4th/5th rd comp pick) to protect yourself if jones isn't healthy and devito doesn't progress.
offering to trade 2 firsts + more for maye is about maye. not jones. passing on jjm is about jjm, not jones.
"It would have been moronic to draft a QB at 6 or trade up if the Giants knew Jones would not be ready for the season."
Are you sure you believe that?
The consensus reporting "fact" doesn't register with me at all.
They knew NE needed to be overwhelmed.
They did not do that.
Are you really sure they tried to trade or for Maye or were they only trying to get Minnesota trade up ahead of them. Another QB taken(so they get the WR they want)
Not saying that is what happened but it is as reasonable as any other assumption.