Mike Reiss (NE) on Pats Trade Offers from MIN/NYG

If the Pats were serious about making a reasonable deal, I'm sure the Giants were open to a sweetener.
The Pats were taking Maye

Giants wanted Maye. They tried. Pats wouldn’t fold and wanted a QB themselves.

It really is that simple to me.

The STRONG interest from the Vikes and GMen made their minds up. If they were lukewarm on Maye at the beginning of the process, the strong interest in him solidified their decision in the end. My feeling is JJ was a smokescreen for them as well, he's really not in the same league.

And it’s true for any team without a QB who has a chance at one they think can be their guy. There is no trade within reason, or even a bit past reason, worth missing out on your QB. You could go a decade before getting another chance.

For teams to not do their due diligence and inquire about trade possibilities would be malpractice. This is basically admitting that trade talks were never serious.

In comment 16500593 Spider43 said:

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The STRONG interest from the Vikes and GMen made their minds up. If they were lukewarm on Maye at the beginning of the process, the strong interest in him solidified their decision in the end. My feeling is JJ was a smokescreen for them as well, he's really not in the same league.

i agree - and it appears JJM was a smokescreen for many.

if they (MIN) wanted to move up farther to get him it would have been easy and same if DEN wanted to jump them. the reports from DEN are that Payton had Nix ahead of JJM. Obviously ATL did too.

I was/am a JJM fan but it seems like there was general consensus around the league. The general consensus was wrong on Lamar Jackson in 2018 so it's possible they are wrong again, but it's clear what everyone thinks right now.

If it seemed like a silly idea that the Pats would trade out of that spot, it was.

In comment 16500601 Chris684 said:

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If it seemed like a silly idea that the Pats would trade out of that spot, it was.

bingo.

and ironically all along that at least 50% of BBI/draft fans thought it was silly that JJM would be considered top 5, it also was.

score 2 for mainstream opinions i guess.

At this point, I couldn't care less. It has already been established that the Giants and Vikings made representative offers. They were turned down. Period and end of the story. It's like losing a house you made an offer on. Move on. This is getting tiresome, already!

In comment 16500592 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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Giants wanted Maye. They tried. Pats wouldn’t fold and wanted a QB themselves. It really is that simple to me.

Not sure how truly serious the Giants were. Doesn't seem like the Pats were ever even tempted to move out.

was done to convince Kraft that Maye was the guy to draft and not JJM.

No matter how you slice it, it's a pretty unprecedented move for a team taking a "franchise" quarterback in the top 3 to string along trade down negotiations right up to the beginning of the draft. If they actually didn't know what to do without NYG and MIN showing their hands, that would make me uneasy about my FO as a Patriots fan.

IMO.

In comment 16500615 widmerseyebrow said:

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was done to convince Kraft that Maye was the guy to draft and not JJM. No matter how you slice it, it's a pretty unprecedented move for a team taking a "franchise" quarterback in the top 3 to string along trade down negotiations right up to the beginning of the draft. If they actually didn't know what to do without NYG and MIN showing their hands, that would make me uneasy about my FO as a Patriots fan.

i buy this - i believe i saw somewhere that kraft had some kind of outside consulting firm involved. he hasnt yet named Wolf GM. his fingerprints are all over whatever disorganization is happening throughout their organization.

In comment 16500624 SirLoinOfBeef said:

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IMO.

agreed. i like polk but he doesn't have much around him and it's not easy to have confidence in their offensive braintrust (all the qbs under van pelt regressed in CLE/NE).

For the type of prospect that he is, he went to the worst team for him.

With the cap and need for drafts picks - makes building a team very difficult

Either you have Mahomes, Burrow, Allen...and you can compete paying them $50 mil/year

Or you have a window on their rookie deal

Or you are the Eagles

In comment 16500659 gersh said:

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With the cap and need for drafts picks - makes building a team very difficult Either you have Mahomes, Burrow, Allen...and you can compete paying them $50 mil/year Or you have a window on their rookie deal Or you are the Eagles

how many playoff games have purdy, geno, baker, jones, cousins, flacco, tua, dak, rudolph, love, goff started in the last 2 years?

In comment 16500594 BillT said:

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And it’s true for any team without a QB who has a chance at one they think can be their guy. There is no trade within reason, or even a bit past reason, worth missing out on your QB. You could go a decade before getting another chance.

And this was fairly obvious way back when the Giants killed their draft chances with the wins over the Packers and Commanders. The teams at the top were just as desperate for a quarterback as we are.

In comment 16500600 Eric on Li said:

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I was/am a JJM fan but it seems like there was general consensus around the league. The general consensus was wrong on Lamar Jackson in 2018 so it's possible they are wrong again, but it's clear what everyone thinks right now.

JMac still went #10. His firewall was #13.

Off topic, I think Penix and Nix going 8 and 12 respectively were the surprises to me. Did anyone think six of the first twelve were going to be QBs?

In comment 16500684 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16500600 Eric on Li said: Quote: I was/am a JJM fan but it seems like there was general consensus around the league. The general consensus was wrong on Lamar Jackson in 2018 so it's possible they are wrong again, but it's clear what everyone thinks right now. JMac still went #10. His firewall was #13. Off topic, I think Penix and Nix going 8 and 12 respectively were the surprises to me. Did anyone think six of the first twelve were going to be QBs?

i knew payton really liked nix (and there were public reports of that too). i didnt know how he felt about jjm bc he hadnt worked out for them yet so that was interesting to see play out. i had assumed he like jjm a lot more and in fact it appears he liked nix more.

penix top 10 ahead of jjm to a team people didnt connect to qb was the drafts main surprise but by last week his odds of going round 1 were considered high so i think the surprise was more atlanta than penix. nix was the only one people were unsure of going day 1.

but everyone also knew there were a lot of teams in top 16 looking for qbs with denver the most desperate and liking nix. Vegas and Seattle were looking hard if anyone fell to them (penix).

6 top 12 was the max qbs early outcome, and i think overall that's a surprise because usually someone slips.

In comment 16500684 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16500600 Eric on Li said: Quote: I was/am a JJM fan but it seems like there was general consensus around the league. The general consensus was wrong on Lamar Jackson in 2018 so it's possible they are wrong again, but it's clear what everyone thinks right now. JMac still went #10. His firewall was #13. Off topic, I think Penix and Nix going 8 and 12 respectively were the surprises to me. Did anyone think six of the first twelve were going to be QBs?

Penix at 8 was a total surprise. Nix to the Broncos was as expected as Williams to the Bears and Daniels to the Commies. Even so, LV was likely going to take Penix with their pick. So 6 in the top 15 is not shocking.

Atlanta though was a total surprise

this could have been avoided if we just lost to New England last season.

If the Pats end up with a franchise altering QB and we only see Tommy Cutlets win a professional game but end up with our dick in our hands the next X years... Tell me that wins during a total lost cause season aren't damaging.

ATL obviously did too and knew he'd be gone a few picks later. I suspect a fair number of teams had Penix ahead of McCarthy too.

I'm admittedly just a casual fan, but the JJM as a consensus top 3 or 4 QB stuff just seemed off to me and it turned out that most of the hype was the NYG-MIN-NE smoke machine.

In comment 16500678 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 16500659 gersh said: Quote: With the cap and need for drafts picks - makes building a team very difficult Either you have Mahomes, Burrow, Allen...and you can compete paying them $50 mil/year Or you have a window on their rookie deal Or you are the Eagles how many playoff games have purdy, geno, baker, jones, cousins, flacco, tua, dak, rudolph, love, goff started in the last 2 years?

I'm missing your point?
Playing a playoff game or two doesn't = QB success
Purdy is an example of rookie contract (and an outlier)

In comment 16500684 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16500600 Eric on Li said: Quote: I was/am a JJM fan but it seems like there was general consensus around the league. The general consensus was wrong on Lamar Jackson in 2018 so it's possible they are wrong again, but it's clear what everyone thinks right now. JMac still went #10. His firewall was #13. Off topic, I think Penix and Nix going 8 and 12 respectively were the surprises to me. Did anyone think six of the first twelve were going to be QBs?

I absolutely did. There are a lot of very smart evaluators like Waldman who thought Penix was the second best QB in this draft. Nix to the Broncos was almost a forgone conclusion.

Those teams may all be wrong. Chicago, Washington and NE may have also missed. But that was not some weird reach on QBs. There were obviously more first round grades on this class than there has been in a while, and the rookie wage scale makes taking a shot on one much less risky.

In comment 16500781 gersh said:

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In comment 16500678 Eric on Li said: Quote: In comment 16500659 gersh said: Quote: With the cap and need for drafts picks - makes building a team very difficult Either you have Mahomes, Burrow, Allen...and you can compete paying them $50 mil/year Or you have a window on their rookie deal Or you are the Eagles how many playoff games have purdy, geno, baker, jones, cousins, flacco, tua, dak, rudolph, love, goff started in the last 2 years? I'm missing your point? Playing a playoff game or two doesn't = QB success Purdy is an example of rookie contract (and an outlier)

my point is QB Success doesn't need to = team success

obviously the goal is SB wins and to do that you pretty much need to get a HOF QB to do that, but after the last decade of misery would i sign for a 10+ win team every year like dallas and a dak level QB? I would because i think that is team success. there's no reason while in that position you cant still continue searching for the QB upgrade and go all in with a draft trade (like SF tried to do with Lance, and like Andy Reid did with Mahomes). or hope to get lucky like SEA did with Russ and BAL did with Lamar at #32.

In comment 16500920 Mike from Ohio said:

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I absolutely did. There are a lot of very smart evaluators like Waldman who thought Penix was the second best QB in this draft. Nix to the Broncos was almost a forgone conclusion. Those teams may all be wrong. Chicago, Washington and NE may have also missed. But that was not some weird reach on QBs. There were obviously more first round grades on this class than there has been in a while, and the rookie wage scale makes taking a shot on one much less risky.

Now that you mentioned that I do recall you being bullish on these big six. Good call.

But it seems in every draft where there are highly regarded QBs, one invariably falls. That wasn't even close to happening Thursday night.

Wasn't taken

In comment 16500628 Eric on Li said:

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i believe i saw somewhere that kraft had some kind of outside consulting firm involved. he hasnt yet named Wolf GM.

Ha, that's amazing

Schoen likely didn't make a serious offer. Pick 6 and 2025 1st would never do it. It had to be pick 6, 47 and 2025 1st plus. Good job Schoen.

In comment 16500594 BillT said:

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And it’s true for any team without a QB who has a chance at one they think can be their guy. There is no trade within reason, or even a bit past reason, worth missing out on your QB. You could go a decade before getting another chance.

So they obviously weren't fully sold on him to offer whatever it took. The offers I've heard are lowball kick the tire offers.