I'm disappointed we did not draft McCarthy, but I can live with it as I do believe in the Giants opinion McCarthy did not carry the grade to be drafted at six. Nabers by all accounts appears to be a terrific player... I can live with them sticking to their Board.
What was really eye opening to me was I do believe based on all the reporting that Maye was their guy and they tried to aggressively trade up for him and NE wouldn't do a deal.
So to me the more alarming question is not should Schoen/Daboll be able to draft their QB... It is will Schoen/Daboll even be able to draft their QB if we don't have a top 2 or 3 draft pick?
The idea that we will be able trade up for our QB when want to is starting to seem like wishful thinking. I guess that is why they call it QB Hell.
I don't buy the Mara angle. A strong GM needs to thread that line and sell the vision. An easy compromise would be franchising Jones and letting Barkley test the market. Jones doesn't like that? Tough luck. Go do it again.
Imagine having $47M to invest back into the team now?
I don't expect Schoen to be in any jeopardy of losing his job, but the team needs to be competitive. 7-10 should be the absolute floor given the money spent and the needs based draft. If this is a 4-13 type season, it's a massive failure 3 years in.
I also know how complicated the 2022 success made this process. It's not fair to dismiss this either.
There are also QBs who you can win with if you build the pieces around them. These QBs are not as hard to find, and I suspect NYG saw QBs 4-6 in this past draft in that category. Nabers projects to be a true #1, and the further back they draft next year, the better it means we did. In other words, doing what they did this year puts us in better position to draft a QB who may be at the level of some of the guys we passed on. And having 6 more teams out of the QB market to compete with won't hurt.
I think the Vikings offered their first round pick for three years and NE wouldn't accept. I consider that "NE wouldn't do a deal"... LOL...
This isn't to suggest you reach for a qb in round 1 if you do not have a top 10 grade (that's how you end up with Daniel Jones), but does provide reason to get your guy if he is there.
And we can see from this year that 4 wins would've been a nice spot to be.
Giants reportedly tried to trade up for a guy they liked. Patriots understandably wouldn't trade down. Giants didn't like any of the QBs left at 6, so they went with a blue chip WR talent to give them a much needed #1 WR. Get over it.
Both are responsible for the current state of QB Hell.
I don't buy the Mara angle. A strong GM needs to thread that line and sell the vision. An easy compromise would be franchising Jones and letting Barkley test the market. Jones doesn't like that? Tough luck. Go do it again.
Imagine having $47M to invest back into the team now?
I don't expect Schoen to be in any jeopardy of losing his job, but the team needs to be competitive. 7-10 should be the absolute floor given the money spent and the needs based draft. If this is a 4-13 type season, it's a massive failure 3 years in.
I also know how complicated the 2022 success made this process. It's not fair to dismiss this either.
I agree the Jones contract is on Schoen, but lets say we franchised Jones and let Barkley walk and we still had the sixth pick in this draft. We still wouldn't be able to trade up for Maye? I guess we could have been in the market for a veteran like Kirk Cousins without the Jones contract.
I agree that Schoen opened up the gates to QB hell and dragged the entire fan base with him.
The way things go with this organization you can almost write the script what's going to happen two years from.
Something along these lines...
JFC, I can't believe we were in the middle of the lottery and didn't draft a QB.
X,Y and Z were available, and now X and Y are thriving. Meanwhile, our WR1 is completely disgruntled, and we keep missing opportunities to get him the ball...
I don't buy the Mara angle. A strong GM needs to thread that line and sell the vision. An easy compromise would be franchising Jones and letting Barkley test the market. Jones doesn't like that? Tough luck. Go do it again.
Imagine having $47M to invest back into the team now?
I don't expect Schoen to be in any jeopardy of losing his job, but the team needs to be competitive. 7-10 should be the absolute floor given the money spent and the needs based draft. If this is a 4-13 type season, it's a massive failure 3 years in.
I also know how complicated the 2022 success made this process. It's not fair to dismiss this either.
Assuming Jones wasn't signed, the Giants would likely still be in QB hell. Who would be their No. 1 QB going into next season? Russell Wilson? Justin Fields? Jimmy G?
McCarthy
Lock
DeVito
That's a cheap QB room and then you can really build the roster. Ugh. We have to eat shit now, but Schoen made this all harder.
There's a decent chance the Giants are drafting somewhere between 6 and 10 next year and there could very well be a QB who Schoen & Daboll feel represents fair or good value in that range.
This isn't to suggest you reach for a qb in round 1 if you do not have a top 10 grade (that's how you end up with Daniel Jones), but does provide reason to get your guy if he is there.
I think the common assertion that next year is a weak QB draft is a overblown: Beck, Sanders, Ewers, Milroe, Dart, Ward, Mertz, Fifita, Weigman, etc. Plenty of talent there. Who will emerge to be at the top, noone knows.
This year you just had all the teams at the top really needing a QB. Giants should have plenty of opportunity to grab a QB next year if they want to.
I don't buy the Mara angle. A strong GM needs to thread that line and sell the vision. An easy compromise would be franchising Jones and letting Barkley test the market. Jones doesn't like that? Tough luck. Go do it again.
Imagine having $47M to invest back into the team now?
You can't sell someone on something they have no interest in buying. That's why I won't ever believe that organization would have moved off Jones or Barkley after making the playoffs in 2022. The owner himself triumphantly declared "WE'RE BACK" after the Vikings game.
How do you propose that his subordinate "sell" the owner of a team that has been in his family for a century on a course of action that would have run directly counter to that belief?
All said said, Schoen has now signed his name to Jones as well. I don't care how many times I hear that the Giants tried to trade up for Maye, there's no chance they were ever going to be able to do it, so it's irrelevant. They had six draft picks and used none of them on a QB. The only change in the QB room was replacing Taylor with Lock, who Schoen himself has said came in to backup Jones.
When they drafted Nabers, who did Schoen text? Jones.
Sorry Joe, that's your guy. If the Giants are back in the top 6-8 spots in the draft in 2025, someone else should be making the pick.
They're all FAs after next season. What would you do about a QB then?
There's a decent chance the Giants are drafting somewhere between 6 and 10 next year and there could very well be a QB who Schoen & Daboll feel represents fair or good value in that range.
M.S. my thinking is if the Giants want the next "Josh Allen" type QB with monster arm and tools to be a top 5 QB he is not falling to the 6-10 range. He will probably go #1 or #2 overall. Also, my guess is it is a copy cat league... other teams see what the Bills did with Josh Allen and will try to replicate... If we want a prospect like Maye with high upside I'm skeptical he will fall to the 6-10 range... Hopefully, I'm wrong...
Jones may be anything from placeholder QB to Kirk Cousins with legs.
But he isn't the hell that was Brown/Kanell/Graham.
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I don't think this quote of yours is quite right: "So to me the more alarming question is not should Schoen/Daboll be able to draft their QB... It is will Schoen/Daboll even be able to draft their QB if we don't have a top 2 or 3 draft pick?"
There's a decent chance the Giants are drafting somewhere between 6 and 10 next year and there could very well be a QB who Schoen & Daboll feel represents fair or good value in that range.
M.S. my thinking is if the Giants want the next "Josh Allen" type QB with monster arm and tools to be a top 5 QB he is not falling to the 6-10 range. He will probably go #1 or #2 overall. Also, my guess is it is a copy cat league... other teams see what the Bills did with Josh Allen and will try to replicate... If we want a prospect like Maye with high upside I'm skeptical he will fall to the 6-10 range... Hopefully, I'm wrong...
Just a reminder that Josh Allen went #7 and Patrick Mahomes went #10.
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I don't consider that QB hell. Those are cheap transitional QBs which give them a lot of money to invest elsewhere.
They're all FAs after next season. What would you do about a QB then?
I'd have drafted a QB at 6 this year.
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Drafting a QB is not the issue, the issue is paying a significant contract to a QB and still needing a QB. That can't happen and Schoen did that.
I agree that Schoen opened up the gates to QB hell and dragged the entire fan base with him.
The way things go with this organization you can almost write the script what's going to happen two years from.
Something along these lines...
JFC, I can't believe we were in the middle of the lottery and didn't draft a QB.
X,Y and Z were available, and now X and Y are thriving. Meanwhile, our WR1 is completely disgruntled, and we keep missing opportunities to get him the ball...
yep, keep pushing that narrative...self fulfilling prophecies usually workout as expected.
McCarthy was there.
Ravens - 1st Seat
Bills - 2nd Seat
Chiefs - 3rd Seat
Browns - 5th Seat
Steelers - 7th Seat
49ers - 1st Seat
Cowboys - 2nd Seat
Lions - 3rd Seat
Bucs - 4th Seat
Eagles - 5th Seat
Rams - 6th Seat
Packers - 7th Seat
This feels like the norm.. not the exception.. you can do this every year and see that drafting the QB is not the only option.. trading up for a draft QB to the 1st or 2nd pick is also not how teams have become successful.. I would love to dump DJ.. but drafting a QB who isn't going to be a franchise QB in GMs mind is way worse than sticking with DJ..
We could've gotten Fields or Wilson for almost nothing..
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In comment 16500670 M.S. said:
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I don't think this quote of yours is quite right: "So to me the more alarming question is not should Schoen/Daboll be able to draft their QB... It is will Schoen/Daboll even be able to draft their QB if we don't have a top 2 or 3 draft pick?"
There's a decent chance the Giants are drafting somewhere between 6 and 10 next year and there could very well be a QB who Schoen & Daboll feel represents fair or good value in that range.
M.S. my thinking is if the Giants want the next "Josh Allen" type QB with monster arm and tools to be a top 5 QB he is not falling to the 6-10 range. He will probably go #1 or #2 overall. Also, my guess is it is a copy cat league... other teams see what the Bills did with Josh Allen and will try to replicate... If we want a prospect like Maye with high upside I'm skeptical he will fall to the 6-10 range... Hopefully, I'm wrong...
Just a reminder that Josh Allen went #7 and Patrick Mahomes went #10.
Certainly relevant, but I think Spartan raises a good point in the copy cat league. Mahomes and Allen's success being huge arm good athleticism guys (and Herbert) has most of the league attempting to replicate that success and not wanting to pass on those guys if they are available. I think that's why we saw Daniels and Maye go 2-3 where maybe they would have dropped in prior drafts as flawed prospects.
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Drafting a QB is not the issue, the issue is paying a significant contract to a QB and still needing a QB. That can't happen and Schoen did that.
I don't buy the Mara angle. A strong GM needs to thread that line and sell the vision. An easy compromise would be franchising Jones and letting Barkley test the market. Jones doesn't like that? Tough luck. Go do it again.
Imagine having $47M to invest back into the team now?
You can't sell someone on something they have no interest in buying. That's why I won't ever believe that organization would have moved off Jones or Barkley after making the playoffs in 2022. The owner himself triumphantly declared "WE'RE BACK" after the Vikings game.
How do you propose that his subordinate "sell" the owner of a team that has been in his family for a century on a course of action that would have run directly counter to that belief?
All said said, Schoen has now signed his name to Jones as well. I don't care how many times I hear that the Giants tried to trade up for Maye, there's no chance they were ever going to be able to do it, so it's irrelevant. They had six draft picks and used none of them on a QB. The only change in the QB room was replacing Taylor with Lock, who Schoen himself has said came in to backup Jones.
When they drafted Nabers, who did Schoen text? Jones.
Sorry Joe, that's your guy. If the Giants are back in the top 6-8 spots in the draft in 2025, someone else should be making the pick.
You are a 100% correct..
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In comment 16500669 Sean said:
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I don't consider that QB hell. Those are cheap transitional QBs which give them a lot of money to invest elsewhere.
They're all FAs after next season. What would you do about a QB then?
I'd have drafted a QB at 6 this year.
J.J. McCarthy? You'd still bein QB hell.
I think there is too much angst about the Giants QB situation. The team just finished its Draft and came away with some very exciting prospects, including a fantastic WR, a potential replacement for Xavier McKinney, an upgrade to our TE room, a very intriguing RB out of Purdue and a highly productive LBer.
Clearly there's no QB who can put this team on his back, but maybe we can get enough out of our QB play to give Giants fans a team we can feel good about this season.
I don't buy the Mara angle. A strong GM needs to thread that line and sell the vision. An easy compromise would be franchising Jones and letting Barkley test the market. Jones doesn't like that? Tough luck. Go do it again. Agree on all of this minus Schoen not being in trouble. I dont think he should be the one to pick the next franchise QB, he already had that chance.
Imagine having $47M to invest back into the team now?
I don't expect Schoen to be in any jeopardy of losing his job, but the team needs to be competitive. 7-10 should be the absolute floor given the money spent and the needs based draft. If this is a 4-13 type season, it's a massive failure 3 years in.
I also know how complicated the 2022 success made this process. It's not fair to dismiss this either.
We'll go thru the same dance every year - well we only like 1 prospect, costs too much to trade up to get him, other teams wouldn't trade with us, blah blah blah.
That is how we stay in QB Hell. Sometimes you have to take a shot.
This is just my opinion, but based on the media reports,
and asshat reports, I think the push from Maye was real. I commend the Giants for doing a better job of generating smoke, but the idea we would trade up to 3 for a tackle doesn't pass the smell test. The only credible report that the push to trade up for Maye was not real was from SY'56, but will all do respect to SY, love him as a scout, SY is not a reporter so you have to take his info with a grain of salt. Also, I think SY did say in his write up if there was one QB the Giants would like the most based on traits and tools it would be Maye.
McCarthy was there.
People talk about generational talents and mostly think of a rocket arm, running ability, or some physical trait.
McCarthy has generational intangibles. He possesses shades of TB12's work ethic, leadership, and a kind of strange charismatic "magic" that is tough to put your finger on.
I see him putting it together and thriving in Minnesota. If that happens ownership need to fire themselves and take Shoen with them.
He was right there for the taking at zero additional cost...
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is the fact you have no idea when it will end, if it will ever end.
McCarthy was there.
People talk about generational talents and mostly think of a rocket arm, running ability, or some physical trait.
McCarthy has generational intangibles. He possesses shades of TB12's work ethic, leadership, and a kind of strange charismatic "magic" that is tough to put your finger on.
I see him putting it together and thriving in Minnesota. If that happens ownership need to fire themselves and take Shoen with them.
He was right there for the taking at zero additional cost...
Why didn't Harbaugh draft him? They could have gotten a big offer for Herbert and reset the QB clock.
Both are responsible for the current state of QB Hell.
This is all you need to understand. Gettleman’s mistake had an expiration date. Schoen extended the expiration date of that mistake for a few more years.
The options now are a) hope you can get a guy in the draft; or b) hope you can lure a free agent. If you build up the rest of the roster first, option a becomes more and more difficult as you slide down the draft, making option b much more likely.
McCarthy was there.
I am not questioning your judgement; just getting clarity on your response.
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is the fact you have no idea when it will end, if it will ever end.
McCarthy was there.
Are you suggesting they should have taken McCarthy and that would have ended their Hell?
I am not questioning your judgement; just getting clarity on your response.
SY'56 posted he would have taken McCarthy at 6. I can't remember where. It might have been on X (twitter).
If the Giants were not sold on him to be a big upgrade, I can understand not taking him. I think I would have still drafted him, staying put at 6. But, I also think Nabers is, by far, the better and more dynamic and impactful player. Of course that sticks them with Jones, which may have been the case no matter what this year anyway.
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In comment 16500716 Sy'56 said:
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is the fact you have no idea when it will end, if it will ever end.
McCarthy was there.
Are you suggesting they should have taken McCarthy and that would have ended their Hell?
I am not questioning your judgement; just getting clarity on your response.
SY'56 posted he would have taken McCarthy at 6. I can't remember where. It might have been on X (twitter).
Greg Cosell didn't consider him a first rounder. Different experts, different opinions.
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Schoen made the mistake of extending the QB.
Both are responsible for the current state of QB Hell.
This is all you need to understand. Gettleman’s mistake had an expiration date. Schoen extended the expiration date of that mistake for a few more years.
The options now are a) hope you can get a guy in the draft; or b) hope you can lure a free agent. If you build up the rest of the roster first, option a becomes more and more difficult as you slide down the draft, making option b much more likely.
Bad spot to be in, the cost of a veteran NFL QB is ridiculous. Look at Jones' contract, look at Dak's, Cousins, etc. Brutal. It's probably a huge reason why they stick with Jones, rather than the double cost and sitting him.
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In comment 16500670 M.S. said:
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I don't think this quote of yours is quite right: "So to me the more alarming question is not should Schoen/Daboll be able to draft their QB... It is will Schoen/Daboll even be able to draft their QB if we don't have a top 2 or 3 draft pick?"
There's a decent chance the Giants are drafting somewhere between 6 and 10 next year and there could very well be a QB who Schoen & Daboll feel represents fair or good value in that range.
M.S. my thinking is if the Giants want the next "Josh Allen" type QB with monster arm and tools to be a top 5 QB he is not falling to the 6-10 range. He will probably go #1 or #2 overall. Also, my guess is it is a copy cat league... other teams see what the Bills did with Josh Allen and will try to replicate... If we want a prospect like Maye with high upside I'm skeptical he will fall to the 6-10 range... Hopefully, I'm wrong...
Just a reminder that Josh Allen went #7 and Patrick Mahomes went #10.
Aaron Rodgers went #24. Lamar Jackson went #32. Jordan Love was the 26th pick. Dak Prescott went in the 4th round. There are a bunch of teams in the league right now that are much better than us who took a shot on a QB outside the top 10 and it paid off. It is not some random shot in the dark that isn’t worth the risk.
I don't know why so many people, here, around the NFL, and in the organization, were so overwhelmed by 2022. As a team, they overachieved and surprised us all. But, as an individual, Jones was very average. The problem is it was a big step up from the prior 2 years. But, make no mistakes, he was not a top 10 QB then and shouldn't have expected to be one. Even when you combine his rushing and passing stats, he still doesn't crack the top 10 of QBs, using only their passing stats.
All that said, I do expect him to be better if he does see the field this year, because their OL should be improved (from bottom 3 to middle of the pack) and they have a dynamic group of WRs. We'll see, but this season feels like 2022 all over again, which shouldn't be the case AFTER signing for what he got.
Worst case scenario? He sits behind Jones/Lock this year to learn and he takes over in 2025. If he is not showing real potential by the end of 2026, you start looking elsewhere. His floor - and the floor of many of these guys - is about where Jones is entering year 6.
McCarthy was there.
Yep. Nix went #12. His final grade might not have warranted it, but the positional value and demand made it so. Who knows if we pick top 12 in 2025, and if we don't, will we be satisfied with a prospect as flawed or moreso as Nix?
Just a reminder that Josh Allen went #7 and Patrick Mahomes went #10.
What's relevant is whether or not the Giants would have drafted either of them, given that both were viewed as "flawed" prospects.
We all just got to witness what that gets you.
Worst case if JJM busts, you're probably picking top 5-10 again when it's time to try another QB.
Winning enough games to be out of reach of the best draft prospects with a QB who will never be the solution is hell.
We all just got to witness what that gets you.
So Malik Nabors isn't a good enough consolation prize?
Now all of a sudden that “really a 2 year contract” has him getting overpaid for 3 years. And you now have lost 2 more years of Thomas and Dex in their prime, and Nabers is now entering year 3 of his contract.
The time to get a pick in the pipeline was this year. Let’s hope they dodged bullets with McCarthy, Penix, Nix, Pratt, Milton, etc…
You evaluate your team and the QB…three years in you should know if he’s the horse you want to ride. If not, you take another swing.
To me, that’s the rational approach. No perfect prospects, but I think one of Nix, JJ, Penix has the CHANCE to be special. Sy would have swung for JJ, I like Penix; others may like Nix. You have to take swings at QB when you don’t have a horse to ride. We just kicked the can down the road one more year. You don’t have to pick in the top 3 to get a special guy; you have to take intelligent swings when guys are there who have the potential to be special and your guy is not.
Second, I wonder what the BBI reaction would have been to Schoen if he played hardball with Jones and Barkley. I have no problem with not giving Jones the 5th year option. But, although some clueless here downplay the 2022 success, a piece of crap franchise not only makes the playoffs but wins a road game against a 13 win team. The Giants had little or no hope of drafting QB to replace Jones and I don’t think a team coming off that year would let a QB and replace him with a journeyman. If you franchised Jones, you pretty definitely lose Barkley. I don’t believe Mara would go for that and many here wouldn’t either. Even if you blame Schoen for the contract, and don’t think it was Mara, Jones had the team by the balls. There were no good realistic options.
I’m wondering if NE was going to trade back but if the O’Connell and Daboll showing interest in Maye, NE backed away. Both of these guys know QBs better than most. I’d be curious if there ever was any reporting on Daboll’s reaction to giving Jones the bad contract. It’s possible that Daboll bought in which tells me that, health issues aside, (a big aside), there is still hope for Jones.
Jones may be anything from placeholder QB to Kirk Cousins with legs.
But he isn't the hell that was Brown/Kanell/Graham.
Now all of a sudden that “really a 2 year contract” has him getting overpaid for 3 years. And you now have lost 2 more years of Thomas and Dex in their prime, and Nabers is now entering year 3 of his contract.
The time to get a pick in the pipeline was this year. Let’s hope they dodged bullets with McCarthy, Penix, Nix, Pratt, Milton, etc…
I didn't like it then and don't like it now - the referring to this as "only a 2 year deal". If you have to qualify it like that, then you shouldn't be giving it, especially at perhaps the most important position in sports. Having an "out" after 2 years still means you had to endure 2 shitty years if you are exercising it. And the out only looks decent as compared to the obscene cap hit this year. It is still a decent hit.
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How many of you actually lived through Brown/Kanell/Graham?
Jones may be anything from placeholder QB to Kirk Cousins with legs.
But he isn't the hell that was Brown/Kanell/Graham.
You wish. Put Daniel Stiff in the pre-rules change era and guess what happens.
I lived through that era. I would not say Daniel Jones is clearly better than any of those guys, and as mentioned the NFL has become much more passing game friendly since those guys played.
And they generally were healthy and played each week. Another edge over Jones.
Jones may be anything from placeholder QB to Kirk Cousins with legs.
But he isn't the hell that was Brown/Kanell/Graham.
I lived through that hell and I disagree with your assertion. You can argue whether Jones was more talented than any of those guys. I'm definitely not certain that he is. However, back in those days, at least the Giants were trying to find an answer at QB. What we have now is an owner who seems content with Jones because he's a good guy, a hard worker and the type of individual Mara wants as the face of the franchise despite the on-field results. That is QB hell.
I wanted JJM because I believe he can be a really good QB which is more valuable than a great WR. Nabers absolutely makes us better now but not over the long term if we don’t land a QB. He might even turn out to be the best player in the draft but JJM could still be more valuable to a team
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let's hope they don't go 4-3 in meaningless games down the home stretch.
We all just got to witness what that gets you.
So Malik Nabors isn't a good enough consolation prize?
I'm thrilled with Nabers given where they were drafting.
But the truth is that the Giants are indeed in QB hell, and that the late season wins unfortunately disqualified them from getting their hands on any of the Top 3 QBs, as it turned out.
Nobody has suggested that players or coaches not play to win. But it's extremely unfortunate that it happened.
The OP references the QB hell we're in, and winning 6 games is a great way to stay there. Hoping that does not happen again.
Come August, I'll be rooting for us to win 17.
This is a great point and while many pragmatic fans realize the futility of late season wins in a lost year, it is very difficult to expect professionals competing for jobs in a subsequent year to roll over for the future. The human element is hard to ignore as these guys are trying to make a living as well.
What Schoen DID do well, was make the contract, essentially, a two year deal worth $84 million. (The injury clause is a big problem, but I digress).
That contract is now about 15th in the league, which is what Jones is on his best days.
Its more than back to back FTs for a QB, but if things break right, he can get out after this year, draft his QB next
year, and have a FULL 5 years on the rookie deal.
So stop whining about his contract.
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and lament some of the wins in the 2nd half. But, I will never be upset with a team competing to win, regardless of their record. Those who legitimately wanted us to tank never played sports and especially never played football. If you aren't playing to win, guys get hurt in football.
This is a great point and while many pragmatic fans realize the futility of late season wins in a lost year, it is very difficult to expect professionals competing for jobs in a subsequent year to roll over for the future. The human element is hard to ignore as these guys are trying to make a living as well.
How many times does this need to be addressed? Most (if not all) of us who were rooting for losses rather than meaningless victories last year, were not calling for the team to tank. It's fully understood these guys are professionals and neither players or coaches want to willingly lose games. We were "rooting" for losses (not calling for the team to lose on purpose) because we are of the opinion that in a lost season, draft position is more important than winning 6 games instead of 3 or 4 games.
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In comment 16500716 Sy'56 said:
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is the fact you have no idea when it will end, if it will ever end.
McCarthy was there.
People talk about generational talents and mostly think of a rocket arm, running ability, or some physical trait.
McCarthy has generational intangibles. He possesses shades of TB12's work ethic, leadership, and a kind of strange charismatic "magic" that is tough to put your finger on.
I see him putting it together and thriving in Minnesota. If that happens ownership need to fire themselves and take Shoen with them.
He was right there for the taking at zero additional cost...
Why didn't Harbaugh draft him? They could have gotten a big offer for Herbert and reset the QB clock.
Because Herbert is a franchise QB already, has ideal physical traits too, and the fan base loves him. And no matter what a college QB still needs to project to the pros so while you can be confident there are no certainties.
Daniels Jones is not Justin Herbert. Not even close.
Please give Shoen and Daboll credit for some ability to discern talent and make decisions. If you don't agree with them, fine. But let's not even think we are privy to the "real" inner workings or evaluations.
You evaluate your team and the QB…three years in you should know if he’s the horse you want to ride. If not, you take another swing.
To me, that’s the rational approach. No perfect prospects, but I think one of Nix, JJ, Penix has the CHANCE to be special. Sy would have swung for JJ, I like Penix; others may like Nix. You have to take swings at QB when you don’t have a horse to ride. We just kicked the can down the road one more year. You don’t have to pick in the top 3 to get a special guy; you have to take intelligent swings when guys are there who have the potential to be special and your guy is not.
Post of the day
22-36-1
12K yards 62 TDs
Brown
23-30
10K yards 44 TDs
Not much different
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and lament some of the wins in the 2nd half. But, I will never be upset with a team competing to win, regardless of their record. Those who legitimately wanted us to tank never played sports and especially never played football. If you aren't playing to win, guys get hurt in football.
Nobody has suggested that players or coaches not play to win. But it's extremely unfortunate that it happened.
The OP references the QB hell we're in, and winning 6 games is a great way to stay there. Hoping that does not happen again.
Come August, I'll be rooting for us to win 17.
You evaluate your team and the QB…three years in you should know if he’s the horse you want to ride. If not, you take another swing.
To me, that’s the rational approach. No perfect prospects, but I think one of Nix, JJ, Penix has the CHANCE to be special. Sy would have swung for JJ, I like Penix; others may like Nix. You have to take swings at QB when you don’t have a horse to ride. We just kicked the can down the road one more year. You don’t have to pick in the top 3 to get a special guy; you have to take intelligent swings when guys are there who have the potential to be special and your guy is not.
At this point, it's all moot. I do think we are an improved team and Naber, on paper, should make a big difference. All I ask is that, now, with what should be an improved OL and a much better group of WR than any Jones has had, that we accept nothing less than a stellar year to continue with him. A replication for 2022, as many ask for, should show him the door.,
Also, it would be best if you have a really good roster before trading up because you know you won't have many round 1/2 picks for the next couple of years.
It's also best if you don't have a current QB you are dishing out big $s to, but if you do, it better be only 1 year.
You don't know that. There's a maximum to what you're even allowed to offer in terms of draft picks that extend into the future.
Mayo had announced to Pats fans before the draft that NEP would be making their pick at 1.3ovr. Does that mean they definitely were? I don't think it got etched in stone just because their HC announced it at their draft party, but it does suggest that it wasn't as simple as waiting to be blown away by an offer.
The Pats needed a QB and took the one that the Giants wanted. That much we can probably agree on.
How badly the Giants wanted Maye and how much they were willing to offer is speculation, and there isn't an agenda that benefits from verifying how much the Giants ultimately offered, so that part will likely never be made public.
The Giants don't want it out there because it probably ruffles DJ's feathers at a minimum, but also because it sets a market price even without a deal having been struck. The Patriots don't want it out there because if Maye struggles, it gives their fans a reason to revolt.
We'll never know how much the Giants (or Vikings) offered, just that whatever they offered wasn't as much as the value New England placed on keeping Maye for themselves.