Serious question. It seems to me that no matter how good a player on this team Is, we here on BBI find a reason to complain. The only player I can think of who didn’t fall under hard scrutiny was pre net punch OBJ. We just drafted one of the 10 best WR prospects in the last 10 years, and yet everyday on here I hear people complaining. Players must really hate our fanbase.
Why would people be happy?
I’ll admit to being very negative at times & perhaps over the top in my pessimism on certain things & people, but there hasn’t been a lot to cheer for since February 2012. That’s 12 years ago. A long fucking time ago.
Looking at all you cowboys fans in the world.
Then we draft one, and you get people saying we should have reached for a QB.
Hard to do everything in a short time.
Why would people be happy?
I’ll admit to being very negative at times & perhaps over the top in my pessimism on certain things & people, but there hasn’t been a lot to cheer for since February 2012. That’s 12 years ago. A long fucking time ago.
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The Giants have two playoffs appearances (one win) in 13 years. Double-digit losses in eight of the past ten seasons. I would say that anyone still a fan of this trainwreck franchise is pretty patient.
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Not any more than any other fan base. What we have at BBI is special though, more than a few fans that think they know QB play and how to GM a team more than the people that actually do it for a living every day.... lol
Some of those people that do it "for a living", do it for a short couple of years.
Yep and even they have forgotten more about running a football operation than anyone posting on BBI.
Then we draft one, and you get people saying we should have reached for a QB.
Hard to do everything in a short time.
Impatient? What? It’s been 10 fucking years of suck. How much more patient should we be? Until we’re dead?
That could not have been said better.
You can’t make generalizations based on a small percentage of fans that complain.
Six years later and the situation is, I think, as bad or worse than it was then. And still there are some that say being critical is toxic. So when is it ok? Is it ever? If we're watching a train wreck unfold over and over, are we supposed to keep pretending everyone on the train is ok?
I wish I had a pilots license and a lot more money than I do. Because if I did I'd be flying an airplane with a banner calling out the Maras every Sunday. They clearly don't know what they're doing and need outside help.
So yeah, there is a toxic element to this fanbase like there are all others. I think overall it is pretty small.
Just buy your Nabers jersey and everything will be fine. The Mara family has never screwed anything up for 20 years before.
The Giants don't have a toxic fan base. If anything, they have a surprising amount of fans who seem pretty satisfied with the franchise just putting a team on the field.
I guess when the season has been over before Halloween 8 out of the last 10 years, draft picks are what's exciting.
I'll never forget the time I was getting impatient, and it caused Daniel Jones to throw that interception against Seattle.
He was livid. You can't imagine how many red faced emojis he sent me.
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The whole world doesn't revolve around optimism, or just being a "good fan". Some have more analytical approaches, strong opinions, and strong personalities. It's just easier for the latter to be more present on the Internet.
Just buy your Nabers jersey and everything will be fine. The Mara family has never screwed anything up for 20 years before.
lol
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and not just that. Sometimes fans focus on things like the playoffs or the draft instead of taking it one game at a time and that hurts the team on the field.
I'll never forget the time I was getting impatient, and it caused Daniel Jones to throw that interception against Seattle.
He was livid. You can't imagine how many red faced emojis he sent me.
That was you??? A**hole.
He was livid. You can't imagine how many red faced emojis he sent me.
That was you??? A**hole.
Oh, if you're a Giants fan, the meditations of my mind have caused you a lot of personal grief. 2000 Super Bowl meltdown? ... This guy. 2002 Wildcard loss? ... This guy. Desean Jackson game? Me. The Pats missing kicker shanking a gimme? Your boy Christian.
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I'll never forget the time I was getting impatient, and it caused Daniel Jones to throw that interception against Seattle.
He was livid. You can't imagine how many red faced emojis he sent me.
That was you??? A**hole.
Oh, if you're a Giants fan, the meditations of my mind have caused you a lot of personal grief. 2000 Super Bowl meltdown? ... This guy. 2002 Wildcard loss? ... This guy. Desean Jackson game? Me. The Pats missing kicker shanking a gimme? Your boy Christian.
So the Giants' fan base is not toxic...christian is toxic.
Well that solves that question.
That tends to make a fanbase pretty irate.
Neither of those things has happened lately, and we've only really had lip service from the Maras about "they understand our frustration." Clearly they don't, and we don't need another Diet Pepsi to figure it out.
To say that this team "hasn't been all that great" the last DECADE is an understatement. They have consistently underperformed, and then made matters worse in the post-Eli era by hiring an incompetent GM that set the clock back even further and put us in cap hell with multiple bad contracts. To compound matters, we also had several draft classes (looking at you, 2021) that produced little to no starting-caliber talent to fill our ranks. The team has had a litany of holes for a while, and although Schoen is trying his best to patch things up, it isn't at the speed some would like. He is the proverbial "Little Dutch Boy at the Dam" trying to plug the holes.
It isn't toxic to be competitive and want to win. It isn't toxic to be frustrated at constantly being a bottom-dweller.
Now if you rephrase the question as follows:
"Is it easy to have a discussion when presenting a point of view on BBI or other Giants boards?"
No, it isn't. Everyone has an opinion that they are entitled to, from being a homer to a raging critic. How the opinion is expressed, the tone of which it comes across - that is another story. I wish that people on the boards (here and in other places) were more civil to each other when presented with a different POV. But that isn't how our society currently operates with sides, factions, and parties.
Things changed for the worse a while ago when the world regressed from a "Lets figure out how to get things done together and meet in the middle" to "I'm always right, you're always wrong and we can never see eye to eye" mantra. Its a sad state of affairs.
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I'll never forget the time I was getting impatient, and it caused Daniel Jones to throw that interception against Seattle.
He was livid. You can't imagine how many red faced emojis he sent me.
That was you??? A**hole.
Oh, if you're a Giants fan, the meditations of my mind have caused you a lot of personal grief. 2000 Super Bowl meltdown? ... This guy. 2002 Wildcard loss? ... This guy. Desean Jackson game? Me. The Pats missing kicker shanking a gimme? Your boy Christian.
Wait who do we blame for Slayton’s drops throughout his career then?
Fine, I’ll step up for that one…
The Giants don't have a toxic fan base. If anything, they have a surprising amount of fans who seem pretty satisfied with the franchise just putting a team on the field.
lolwut
Can you point these fans out to me?
The Giants just opted to pass on an opportunity to add an element of hope to that situation.
They chose this.
Well that solves that question.
You're all free to send your grievances and hate mail to the address listed in my profile.
If only I had been more patient.
I love the scare quotes around"sucking", implying that he hasn't been a dogshit QB for his entire career.
Oh, wait, I forgot the greatest 15 TD pass season an NFL QB has ever had. HOF quality stuff right there.
There is a difference between being negative and being realistic. I think some are confusing the two. I, for one, really try hard to be optimistic heading into every season. But, that is also why I have been so extremely disappointed for more than a decade.
Using this draft as a backdrop, I don't fall firmly in either camp. I REALLY wanted a QB. But, I didn't find Maye or McCarthy compelling enough to trade up for and Nix/Penix not worthy of a #6 pick. To me, that slot matters and carries certain expectations. So, unless we were trading up for Daniels, I understand not taking a QB. I am optimistic for taking Nabers because he is the most dynamic player we have selected since OBJ and instantly changes our WR group. But, I do worry what this season and his progress will look like with a sub-par QB.
I am not as down on this team as some. I do think we have talent (better than last year) and better depth. I do think our OL is improved and we added 3 instant starters in the first 3 rounds of the draft. At the same time, I am realistic and don't expect this current group to be significantly better this year. I think we will be on the outside of the bubble for the playoffs, but we took a step in the right direction this off season.
Thinking anything more at this point is a fool's errand. Thinking anything less, to me, is more understandable given the most recent history of this organization.
The complaints are not about winning next year, they're about not having a plan that can result in consistent winning in the long term. For me, I don't care about 4 wins, 7 wins, 9 wins next year. I care about 11+ wins consistently and having a team that can compete in big games against good teams.
If I see the plan, I'm good with that. If I see a mediocre team that's trying to scrape into the playoffs by thinking short term, that's something I'm going to complain about (until i lose interest)
The complaints are not about winning next year, they're about not having a plan that can result in consistent winning in the long term. For me, I don't care about 4 wins, 7 wins, 9 wins next year. I care about 11+ wins consistently and having a team that can compete in big games against good teams.
If I see the plan, I'm good with that. If I see a mediocre team that's trying to scrape into the playoffs by thinking short term, that's something I'm going to complain about (until i lose interest)
I believe that.
They act hurt, I get tired of the whining, but most of all what bothers me about the "sides"
One side is loyal, gets attached to the players and lend toward optimism.
The negative people get MAD at the positive people and sometimes go so far as to blame them for the Giants losing(they accept it so the Giants keep losing, we don't care enough). Also you present your argument like people that disagree must be stupid.
The proof that you are not as intelligent as you think are is in the certainty in which you claim you are correct and others are wrong without possessing all of the information.
Second is your willing acceptance of what is reported only when it confirms your beliefs.
Focus on what they do, not what is said or reported.
Is what it is.
The Giants just opted to pass on an opportunity to add an element of hope to that situation.
They chose this.
Drafting Daniel Jones was adding an element of hope to that situation.
This can’t be a reason to use the sixth pick in the draft on someone they don’t believe in.
The whether or not a fanbase is toxic stems from how strong the "I can't stand it anymore" reaction is. I don't think we, as a group, are there yet. But I think we're closer than we've ever been.
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If the Eagles were paying $53.7M in 2024 so that they could maybe have an open QB competition between Daniel Jones and Drew Lock...who here wouldn't be laughing at that? Who would take them seriously?
The Giants just opted to pass on an opportunity to add an element of hope to that situation.
They chose this.
Drafting Daniel Jones was adding an element of hope to that situation.
This can’t be a reason to use the sixth pick in the draft on someone they don’t believe in.
I have serious doubts about the Giants' process for identifying a quarterback "they believe in". I think it's fundamentally flawed, out of step with how the modern NFL works, and overly reliant on luck.
Fan base and media constantly churn out negative takes and vibes and BOOO the shit out of players which in turn could in fact be counter productive? That's fine.
Who the hell knows. But I know one thing is certain, players being asked stupid questions is annoying, but doesn't impact 3rd and long from their own 10 yard line.
There’s certainly a level of toxicity that exists on BBI and Twitter that makes both of the places less enjoyable for me to discuss the Giants.
If you are smart, you will think about all draft picks, particularly QB, as having a range of outcomes. You will assess those outcomes - and (importantly) their value to winning at the highest level- then weigh that assessment against other options. That is the way smart people make decisions about uncertain events in the future. They then update their assessments as they get new information.
Binary Belive In/Don't believe in is a childish way of thinking about complex real world problems
Apathetic? Yes. That's what 12 years of being this consistently bad will do.
So yeah, there is a toxic element to this fanbase like there are all others. I think overall it is pretty small.
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and not just that. Sometimes fans focus on things like the playoffs or the draft instead of taking it one game at a time and that hurts the team on the field.
I'll never forget the time I was getting impatient, and it caused Daniel Jones to throw that interception against Seattle.
He was livid. You can't imagine how many red faced emojis he sent me.
He cut the guy the next day and we won the Superbowl.
It was awesome.
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In comment 16501130 Go Terps said:
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If the Eagles were paying $53.7M in 2024 so that they could maybe have an open QB competition between Daniel Jones and Drew Lock...who here wouldn't be laughing at that? Who would take them seriously?
The Giants just opted to pass on an opportunity to add an element of hope to that situation.
They chose this.
Drafting Daniel Jones was adding an element of hope to that situation.
This can’t be a reason to use the sixth pick in the draft on someone they don’t believe in.
I have serious doubts about the Giants' process for identifying a quarterback "they believe in". I think it's fundamentally flawed, out of step with how the modern NFL works, and overly reliant on luck.
Tell us all on the Giants process for identifying a QB
Can you explain exactly what Daboll and Schoen are doing in their process with specifics? If it is flawed as you say….break it down for us
You seems to have intimate knowledge of the evaluation process
And that massive toxicity would result in a loud message to this organization that they are no longer going to stand for such a constantly hideous product. Which obviously means not investing or showing up to support the product for a while.
Alas, that is wishful thinking.
If NYG was a stock right now, would you short it or go long?
As to the OP pointing out being excited about Nabers, I do think he's a terrific WR prospect. But WR is a dependent position, and it's hard to get excited when the person the position depends on is so unreliable.
The problem is the Maras. They run an organization that is rooted in nepotism, sentimentality, and nostalgia. They look backwards into their own history to inform key decisions and they scapegoat people who aren't "their guys" to deflect from their involvement at the core of the problems.
To paraphrase Bobby Axelrod in Billions:
It's classic from time immemorial. Mara I builds it. Mara II grows it. Mara III blows it.
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Look at our record post XLVI.
Why would people be happy?
I’ll admit to being very negative at times & perhaps over the top in my pessimism on certain things & people, but there hasn’t been a lot to cheer for since February 2012. That’s 12 years ago. A long fucking time ago.
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In yearly averages that breaks down to:
6.3 wins - 9.8 losses
We've been on average a 6-10 team for 12 years.
The jokes with folks from elsewhere showing sympathy in the setup/build of the story about blind people, followed by the guy from NY delivering the punchline asking why the F they can't just do their thing at night are sourced in reality.
Then we draft one, and you get people saying we should have reached for a QB.
Hard to do everything in a short time.
You can’t be serious?
Living in Detroit, I went to a Lions - Giants preseason game several years ago. During warmups, OBJ and Shepard were the only ones that came over an signed autographs for the 5-8 kids in the front row. I got snubbed, even though it was my sharpie I lent them!
Then we draft one, and you get people saying we should have reached for a QB.
Hard to do everything in a short time.
Today? It’s been 10 years and they have the worst record in the NFC and one of the worst winning percentages in all of professional sports.
you know who they are.
Time to get the papers
get the papers
The problem is the Maras. They run an organization that is rooted in nepotism, sentimentality, and nostalgia. They look backwards into their own history to inform key decisions and they scapegoat people who aren't "their guys" to deflect from their involvement at the core of the problems.
To paraphrase Bobby Axelrod in Billions:
It's classic from time immemorial. Mara I builds it. Mara II grows it. Mara III blows it.
I think reaching outside the organization for Schoen and Daboll was an acknowledgment that the way the Giants were doing things was not working. Those were not nepotism, sentimentality, or nostalgia hires. They were highly desirable candidates from a well run organization and they had no prior connection to the Giants.
A lot of the frustration at this point is misplaced on Schoen and Daboll. The fluky success in 2022 with DG's garbage roster I think lead many to believe that the rebuild, if any, would be short and painless and when we returned to reality in 2023, it was a hard pill to swallow. The only real indictment of their 2 year tenure was resigning Jones instead of franchising him. They were in a tough spot after 2022 with Jones having played well and a low draft pick. It was not a crazy decision at the time and a decision I think a majority of fans supported, but nonetheless it appears to have not worked out. What would have been worse is compounding that mistake by forcing themselves to fall in love with a mediocre qb prospect like DG did in 2019 and restarting the clock on a new 5 year doom cycle.
The fans are rightfully angry over 12 years of ineptitude. But I think they should also be open to the possibility that things have changed, the right coach and gm are in place, and the results will come, though it may take a bit more time than we hoped after a successful, but fluky, 2022.
That's strange. I'd think you'd fire the people actually doing a bad job.
Then we draft one, and you get people saying we should have reached for a QB.
Hard to do everything in a short time.
Pick any of the 6 1st round Qbs just taken. Do you think any of them will get 6 seasons as the unquestioned starter with a similar record as Jones?
This team has way too much patience and its become a problem.
Let me give this back to you how others see it...
You would agree there is not a single thing in that post that is toxic, because all I did was change your complimentary opinions to critical opinions?
Have any of you spent time around Eagles fans?
If Daniel Jones was on the Eagles, I'd fear for his safety. They would need a cage around the field to protect him. Just wait until Saquon has like 10 carries for 20 yards in a game. LOL. You will see toxic.
This is less a Giants fan thing but more of the way fans act now because of gambling and easy access to players who make themselves available over social media. Carl Banks talked about this on his podcast a few times. The fans who you see acting more visceral usually are the ones who have lost money gambling or on fantasy and lash out. Most fans are passionate and can lash out at the team out of frustration which is natural and generally normal. The ones who go overboard and put the death threats are usually the ones who lost money on DraftKings or FanDuel.
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and not just that. Sometimes fans focus on things like the playoffs or the draft instead of taking it one game at a time and that hurts the team on the field.
I'll never forget the time I was getting impatient, and it caused Daniel Jones to throw that interception against Seattle.
He was livid. You can't imagine how many red faced emojis he sent me.
You're lucky he didn't throw a tablet at you. Those sideline rants can get testy.
Is this Paul Dottino?
I would think you would want honest people giving you their honest opinions working for you, not people filtering what you hear so you only hear positives.
Big difference between being upset and toxic.
They are the only two teams in the NFL with a worse record than the Giants over the last 10 years.
To give you an idea of our peer group - Jaguars, Jets, Browns, Bears and Commanders. Those are all the teams with a winning percentage below .400 over the last 10 years.
That is the company we keep when it comes to success over a fairly long window.
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Imagine being confused why people are upset with the Giants. Look at the goddamn record lately!
Big difference between being upset and toxic.
Well, I guess that depends on the definition of the two. I’m not on social media berating these players on their accounts. I just post on a fan website to bitch.
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It's not even about Jones. Jones is a symptom, just like Gettleman was.
The problem is the Maras. They run an organization that is rooted in nepotism, sentimentality, and nostalgia. They look backwards into their own history to inform key decisions and they scapegoat people who aren't "their guys" to deflect from their involvement at the core of the problems.
To paraphrase Bobby Axelrod in Billions:
It's classic from time immemorial. Mara I builds it. Mara II grows it. Mara III blows it.
I think reaching outside the organization for Schoen and Daboll was an acknowledgment that the way the Giants were doing things was not working. Those were not nepotism, sentimentality, or nostalgia hires. They were highly desirable candidates from a well run organization and they had no prior connection to the Giants.
A lot of the frustration at this point is misplaced on Schoen and Daboll. The fluky success in 2022 with DG's garbage roster I think lead many to believe that the rebuild, if any, would be short and painless and when we returned to reality in 2023, it was a hard pill to swallow. The only real indictment of their 2 year tenure was resigning Jones instead of franchising him. They were in a tough spot after 2022 with Jones having played well and a low draft pick. It was not a crazy decision at the time and a decision I think a majority of fans supported, but nonetheless it appears to have not worked out. What would have been worse is compounding that mistake by forcing themselves to fall in love with a mediocre qb prospect like DG did in 2019 and restarting the clock on a new 5 year doom cycle.
The fans are rightfully angry over 12 years of ineptitude. But I think they should also be open to the possibility that things have changed, the right coach and gm are in place, and the results will come, though it may take a bit more time than we hoped after a successful, but fluky, 2022.
Good positive view that I can appreciate.
But they were plenty of people saying to give Gettleman, Shurmur, Judge more time and preaching patience.
You need to prove it, Schoen especially. To date he has had more misses than hits, lets all hope that changes.
The complaints are not about winning next year, they're about not having a plan that can result in consistent winning in the long term. For me, I don't care about 4 wins, 7 wins, 9 wins next year. I care about 11+ wins consistently and having a team that can compete in big games against good teams.
If I see the plan, I'm good with that. If I see a mediocre team that's trying to scrape into the playoffs by thinking short term, that's something I'm going to complain about (until i lose interest)
I like this take.
And the toxic question in the OP is kind of comical but hopefully the responses you got here gives you the answer you were looking for.
In the meanwhile the franchise has a lot to do to show the fan base they can turn this thing around and do what is needed to realistically compete for future championships. Until that happens with more frequency, expect more criticism.
Choose your threads accordingly, is probably the best answer. Not every thread is for every poster.
But please also know that BBI is not your safe space, where only blind loyalists reside to say nice things about the Giants.
I prefer reading honest criticism a lot more than the Pollyanna posts of people who, year after year, make excuses for crappy performance.
Also, if a random fan "can't see the plan," does that mean that there isn't one?
Finally, how many here would really just prefer to tank starting on opening day?
Giants fans have not handled the last 12 years well. I think the primary issue has oddly been Daniel Jones. I say "oddly" and I mean it, as I've never seen anything like this in my life with any player in any sport. (We've just grown used to the madness.)
The Daniel Jones issue really goes in all directions. Bring him up to fans of any of the other NFL teams and they will laugh you out of a conversation if you argue he's good. Bring him up around Giants fans and some will defend him to the death while others will similarly laugh his defenders out of any conversation. Pitchforks are out on both sides, and people are seemingly unwilling to yield.
I actually think OBJ previewed some of this. We all remember how things ended. But for a while, he was actually producing at a high level while also behaving like a total nutjob. Again, most fans didn't want a nuanced opinion, with many wanting to run him out of town for immaturity, while others defending the talent and production.
Daniel Jones has not played consistently like a good NFL QB, and even worse, he's very injury prone. There have been some flashes of goodness here and there, and the Giants certainly have not done him any favors. Yet the Daniel Jones subject is like a holy war from Dune 2, whereas we all could just, ya know, have normal and muted opinions on the matter. That's why I think our fanbase is toxic.
I'm not sure that anybody, on any side, is happy with where things stand. Barring an injury or something unforeseen, he will be our starting QB week 1. I will root for him to do well, yet expect that he overall will not play well and leave us all frustrated and wanting something better. We can all handle this like adults, or all continue to keep screeching like banshees over everything. (I admit that I have been guilty of the banshee shrieking, myself.)
This is where the team is. It sucks. We can try to accept it and live life accordingly, or lose our minds for 17 weeks (or fewer or more, depending on injuries and playoffs). I'm going to try to focus on the other good things happening on the team. Dexter Lawrence is one of the most unique players we, or anybody, has ever had. Let's enjoy Dex. We have a bunch of young skilled offensive players now who could be nothing or could turn into a very scary unit. Let's focus on that. There's nothing much left to say on DJ at this point, we've beaten it dead dozens of times over.
Also, if a random fan "can't see the plan," does that mean that there isn't one?
Finally, how many here would really just prefer to tank starting on opening day?
Do you think that the level of losing is just some kind of coincidence over the past 12 years, and they actually have had credible plans in place and made sound decisions/executed accordingly over this period?
And if so, do you think is just due to bad luck?
Giants fans have not handled the last 12 years well. I think the primary issue has oddly been Daniel Jones. I say "oddly" and I mean it, as I've never seen anything like this in my life with any player in any sport. (We've just grown used to the madness.)
The Daniel Jones issue really goes in all directions. Bring him up to fans of any of the other NFL teams and they will laugh you out of a conversation if you argue he's good. Bring him up around Giants fans and some will defend him to the death while others will similarly laugh his defenders out of any conversation. Pitchforks are out on both sides, and people are seemingly unwilling to yield.
I actually think OBJ previewed some of this. We all remember how things ended. But for a while, he was actually producing at a high level while also behaving like a total nutjob. Again, most fans didn't want a nuanced opinion, with many wanting to run him out of town for immaturity, while others defending the talent and production.
Daniel Jones has not played consistently like a good NFL QB, and even worse, he's very injury prone. There have been some flashes of goodness here and there, and the Giants certainly have not done him any favors. Yet the Daniel Jones subject is like a holy war from Dune 2, whereas we all could just, ya know, have normal and muted opinions on the matter. That's why I think our fanbase is toxic.
I'm not sure that anybody, on any side, is happy with where things stand. Barring an injury or something unforeseen, he will be our starting QB week 1. I will root for him to do well, yet expect that he overall will not play well and leave us all frustrated and wanting something better. We can all handle this like adults, or all continue to keep screeching like banshees over everything. (I admit that I have been guilty of the banshee shrieking, myself.)
This is where the team is. It sucks. We can try to accept it and live life accordingly, or lose our minds for 17 weeks (or fewer or more, depending on injuries and playoffs). I'm going to try to focus on the other good things happening on the team. Dexter Lawrence is one of the most unique players we, or anybody, has ever had. Let's enjoy Dex. We have a bunch of young skilled offensive players now who could be nothing or could turn into a very scary unit. Let's focus on that. There's nothing much left to say on DJ at this point, we've beaten it dead dozens of times over.
I doubt the Jones comments will slow down. There are very low guardrails on this site.
So we're trotting him out there because he's a nice dude & hard worker from all accounts? Like, WTF are we doing? Are we in the business of winning games or not? I think we are, but the fact that's even a ? to me is concerning.
If one wants to call me a 'toxic fan', sure. I'm not going to fight that. I think I'm more of a beaten down fan who ?s why I spend so much time & energy on this organization that has done little to nothing to warrant such space in my brain & life.
The problem is the Maras. They run an organization that is rooted in nepotism, sentimentality, and nostalgia. They look backwards into their own history to inform key decisions and they scapegoat people who aren't "their guys" to deflect from their involvement at the core of the problems.
To paraphrase Bobby Axelrod in Billions:
It's classic from time immemorial. Mara I builds it. Mara II grows it. Mara III blows it.
Mara hired Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll, who have the most success out of any regime through their first 2 years dating back 20 years, including Tom Coughlin.
That's a fair post, but if we're talking the organization @ large...I'd put Mara in that group with Neal & DJ.
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It's not even about Jones. Jones is a symptom, just like Gettleman was.
The problem is the Maras. They run an organization that is rooted in nepotism, sentimentality, and nostalgia. They look backwards into their own history to inform key decisions and they scapegoat people who aren't "their guys" to deflect from their involvement at the core of the problems.
To paraphrase Bobby Axelrod in Billions:
It's classic from time immemorial. Mara I builds it. Mara II grows it. Mara III blows it.
Mara hired Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll, who have the most success out of any regime through their first 2 years dating back 20 years, including Tom Coughlin.
Pretty low bar to clear.
So we're trotting him out there because he's a nice dude & hard worker from all accounts? Like, WTF are we doing? Are we in the business of winning games or not? I think we are, but the fact that's even a ? to me is concerning.
If one wants to call me a 'toxic fan', sure. I'm not going to fight that. I think I'm more of a beaten down fan who ?s why I spend so much time & energy on this organization that has done little to nothing to warrant such space in my brain & life.
What if the Giants are done with Jones but they recognize there was no better option available to them for 2024 than having a Lock/Jones qb competition? It seems that so many assume that because the Giants passed on JJM, they still like Jones. But maybe they don’t like either and didn’t want to burn the sixth pick on JJM? If JJM becomes a great player, then it was an epic miss. If, just as or even more likely, JJM is qb’ing in the XFL in a few years, then it was a highly prudent decision. We hired Shoen and Daboll, in part, because they had a proven track record of picking a young qb they liked and developing him. They haven’t had an opportunity to grab one yet that they like. What can they do? Perhaps Daboll shouldn’t have had them playing hard at the end of the year so they could have finished worse than the Pats and had the third pick themselves. (of course he would have been killed for that as well). Let’s let them do what they were hired to do and evaluate their performance when we have more information.
The best thing for the Giants would have been to go 6-11 in '22 & 9-7-1 in '23, the exact opposite of what happened each year.
So we're trotting him out there because he's a nice dude & hard worker from all accounts? Like, WTF are we doing? Are we in the business of winning games or not? I think we are, but the fact that's even a ? to me is concerning.
If one wants to call me a 'toxic fan', sure. I'm not going to fight that. I think I'm more of a beaten down fan who ?s why I spend so much time & energy on this organization that has done little to nothing to warrant such space in my brain & life.
I mostly agree. But I'm not sure there was anything to do this offseason? The top 3 teams didn't want to trade back, and we didn't like the other 3 QBs. So I think we did the right thing in the draft. The mistake was the DJ contract, but the majority of people here wanted it or something like it at the time. Unless something changes drastically, it didn't work, and now we're stuck with it.
The bottom line is we need a QB. Badly.
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Dexter and AT are loved here. I don't think anyone thinks any different about them. I think most people also love Bobby Okereke and Tae Banks. Then you got players most people like Thibs, Pinnock, Burns, and JMS. Where most of the hate comes from is with Neal and DJ. Those two players are 90% of the complaints with this team.
That's a fair post, but if we're talking the organization @ large...I'd put Mara in that group with Neal & DJ.
You are right... I was thinking players, but if we include the whole org like we should. David Gettleman and Mara are also right up there with DJ and Neal. The decisions of having a bad GM with revolving HCs that last two years at most and revolving OC and DC. That is part of what people hate. I like Dabs and Schoen, but the feeling... how long will they last?
Gun to head, I would have taken JJM at 6, even if I think Nabers has the higher potential to be a stud pro. That probably makes no sense to a lot of people, but @ this point, I'm just starving-STARVING-for hope @ the QB position. I have none.
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It's not even about Jones. Jones is a symptom, just like Gettleman was.
The problem is the Maras. They run an organization that is rooted in nepotism, sentimentality, and nostalgia. They look backwards into their own history to inform key decisions and they scapegoat people who aren't "their guys" to deflect from their involvement at the core of the problems.
To paraphrase Bobby Axelrod in Billions:
It's classic from time immemorial. Mara I builds it. Mara II grows it. Mara III blows it.
Mara hired Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll, who have the most success out of any regime through their first 2 years dating back 20 years, including Tom Coughlin.
Schoen/Daboll's resume in 2 years:
- 16-19-1
- 3-8-1 in the division
- 1-8 against Dallas & Philly combined
- Grossly overpaid and misevaluated their QB
- Replaced most of the coaching staff under Daboll after two years
Vegas has them at 6.5 wins and -550 to miss the playoffs in 2024.
You want to feel good about that, that's your right. I don't feel good about it. I hope this isn't taken as a toxic post.
As I said, first two years of any recent Giants regime including Coughlin and Reese, they’ve had the most success.
Gun to head, I would have taken JJM at 6, even if I think Nabers has the higher potential to be a stud pro. That probably makes no sense to a lot of people, but @ this point, I'm just starving-STARVING-for hope @ the QB position. I have none.
My guess is they wanted to love McCarthy but just couldn't get there at 6.
Something that's interesting - none of the national media is criticizing NYG for passing on McCarthy/Penix/Nix. They got slammed for picking Jones and even got some criticism for passing on QB in 2018. But, nothing this year nationally. So, NYG was not alone in their thinking here.
As I said, first two years of any recent Giants regime including Coughlin and Reese, they’ve had the most success.
So you're ok with a losing record? With being embarrassed by Philly and Dallas?
If you don't want complaints all you have to do is win the World Series every year like the Yankees. And when the Yankees don't win the Series, they get complaints, too.
I feel sorry for the players. It must be hard for them making all that money.
Something that's interesting - none of the national media is criticizing NYG for passing on McCarthy/Penix/Nix. They got slammed for picking Jones and even got some criticism for passing on QB in 2018. But, nothing this year nationally. So, NYG was not alone in their thinking here.
Yesterday, Tannenbaum and Orlavsky were killing the Giants for passing on JMac.
Listen, time will tell. If forced to pick, I think JJM has the best career of those three, but he's walking into a perfect spot with those weapons on offense.
The Giants need to do something @ QB. It's long past time.
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Something that's interesting - none of the national media is criticizing NYG for passing on McCarthy/Penix/Nix. They got slammed for picking Jones and even got some criticism for passing on QB in 2018. But, nothing this year nationally. So, NYG was not alone in their thinking here.
Yesterday, Tannenbaum and Orlavsky were killing the Giants for passing on JMac.
bw, thanks for that. Hadn't heard it. Interesting.
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Terps, that’s great.
As I said, first two years of any recent Giants regime including Coughlin and Reese, they’ve had the most success.
So you're ok with a losing record? With being embarrassed by Philly and Dallas?
No, I’m just willing to see what the regime does seeing that I like the coach and the GM and I’m not playing Madden trying to change the coach and roster every 2 years.
That said, he strikes me as one of these 'Don't ever shit on the Giants' posters, even though they deserve to get grief over the last 12 years.
That said, he strikes me as one of these 'Don't ever shit on the Giants' posters, even though they deserve to get grief over the last 12 years.
Again, wrong. I’m not one of those posters. I live in reality.
That's not accurate at all. Why make something up?
As I've said for many years running, I will root for the guy, expect very little, and be happy if I'm proven wrong.
Not sure what else there is to do at this point.
No he was pissed when we passed on Malik Willis.
So you'd create an echo chamber?
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But again, you already knew that, you’re just so anti-Giants everything and probably hated when they passed on Dwayne Haskins too.
That's not accurate at all. Why make something up?
It's a lot easier to dismiss your negative but accurate comments about the team if I just make you sound crazy.
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So, the majority of people did not want JJM. I don’t understand how people can say someone is a good contributor when all they is complain about the same thing every day. There are very few positive vibes on this site because it is dominated by a group of posters that are negative about many things. If they worked for me they would be fired. I want to hear positive comments about my team.
So you'd create an echo chamber?
I'm with j_rud. This is silly. We've had possibly the worst team in the NFL over the last decade, we shouldn't just pretend that it hasn't happened.
bw, thanks for that. Hadn't heard it. Interesting.
Orlovsky is a pretty levelheaded guy but sounded like he's been visiting BBI. Go to the two-minute mark...
Orlovsky - ( New Window )
He did outplay them. Again, that’s living in reality. Did you watch those games? Who played better?
We made the playoffs, beat an uncharacteristically bad defense, and then got stomped by our division rivals. Followed up by last year. That one playoff win meant very little in the long run.
As I said, first two years of any recent Giants regime including Coughlin and Reese, they’ve had the most success.
Uhm. You sure about this?
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ryan, it's hard to take you seriously as 'living in reality' when you-for as long as I remember-would constantly bang the DJ drum by saying he outplayed LJax, Rodgers, Lawrence, etc. in '22 as if their games were 1 on 1 contests.
He did outplay them. Again, that’s living in reality. Did you watch those games? Who played better?
DUDE. I WATCHED ALL GIANTS GAMES. COMPARING QBS IS STUPID AF CONSIDERING THEY'RE NOT GOING UP AGAINST ONE ANOTHER, BUT THEY'RE PLAYING THE OTHER'S DEFENSE.
Even when I try to give you the benefit of the doubt, you reveal yourself as a complete sycophant for Jones & the Giants in general.
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...so, there can be no toxicity? Is that right (for some of us)?
Also, if a random fan "can't see the plan," does that mean that there isn't one?
Finally, how many here would really just prefer to tank starting on opening day?
Do you think that the level of losing is just some kind of coincidence over the past 12 years, and they actually have had credible plans in place and made sound decisions/executed accordingly over this period?
And if so, do you think is just due to bad luck?
You didn't answer my questions.
Amen
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In comment 16501360 Brown_Hornet said:
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...so, there can be no toxicity? Is that right (for some of us)?
Also, if a random fan "can't see the plan," does that mean that there isn't one?
Finally, how many here would really just prefer to tank starting on opening day?
Do you think that the level of losing is just some kind of coincidence over the past 12 years, and they actually have had credible plans in place and made sound decisions/executed accordingly over this period?
And if so, do you think is just due to bad luck?
No, no...and no.
You didn't answer my questions.
I don’t find dissent to be toxic. Posters that are fans of the same team don’t need to think alike or even like each other, at all.
If a NYG fan can describe a reasonably cohesive plan from 2016 Reese to 2024 Schoen that can withstand a day on BBI without getting decimated, then have at it. You go first.
I don’t want the Giants to play to lose, ever. But I also think they make or don’t make better strategic decisions for their future with the idea that winning for today is always better. Not trading Saquon was one of the dumbest things I can point to in recent NFL history. We lost a draft pick, didn’t give a rookie RB more experience, and lost ground in the race for the top future QB prospects. For what?
So give us this great plan that has been in place but we can’t see it. You’re up.
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In comment 16501381 ThomasG said:
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In comment 16501360 Brown_Hornet said:
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...so, there can be no toxicity? Is that right (for some of us)?
Also, if a random fan "can't see the plan," does that mean that there isn't one?
Finally, how many here would really just prefer to tank starting on opening day?
Do you think that the level of losing is just some kind of coincidence over the past 12 years, and they actually have had credible plans in place and made sound decisions/executed accordingly over this period?
And if so, do you think is just due to bad luck?
No, no...and no.
You didn't answer my questions.
I don’t find dissent to be toxic. Posters that are fans of the same team don’t need to think alike or even like each other, at all.
If a NYG fan can describe a reasonably cohesive plan from 2016 Reese to 2024 Schoen that can withstand a day on BBI without getting decimated, then have at it. You go first.
I don’t want the Giants to play to lose, ever. But I also think they make or don’t make better strategic decisions for their future with the idea that winning for today is always better. Not trading Saquon was one of the dumbest things I can point to in recent NFL history. We lost a draft pick, didn’t give a rookie RB more experience, and lost ground in the race for the top future QB prospects. For what?
So give us this great plan that has been in place but we can’t see it. You’re up.
Thank you for that.
I completely agree that we needn't agree on all things Giants. And imv, you're right that criticism is not always toxic any more than optimism is always unrealistic.
I hope that I didn't lead you on about a plan. I don't know what it may be but I do suspect that each HC/GM combination has a different plan so I would suggest that our patience not be tied to the teams record over the past decade but rather to the record of the group making decisions and executing their plans now.
But you now need to answer my question, which is you see the results over the past 12 years. What the heck do you think they got for a plan?
No offense, but either lay your cards on the table or fold.
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Plenty of posters here job is bitch and moan until the Giants make the playoffs. Oh wait that happened 2 seasons ago, they disappeared, and now they are back. Like clockwork, until it happens again.
We made the playoffs, beat an uncharacteristically bad defense, and then got stomped by our division rivals. Followed up by last year. That one playoff win meant very little in the long run.
It actually meant nothing in any run. The team made the playoffs despite itself. Flawed teams make the playoffs every year and then they most often get bounced fairly quickly. And when two flawed teams happen to meet up early in a playoffs someone has to actually win. Too bad it was our 2022 NY Giants.
The playoff win got us a derailed turnaround plan, gave a moronic front office an empty promise of hope, an awful QB contract, and extended the timelines in which this franchise would get back on track to a championship contender.
Other than that, it was an enjoyable win in Minnesota.
Saved to the archives!
[Wayback Machine]
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I'm surprised there are so many positive takes surrounding the team. They've stunk for over a decade. That doesn't happen by accident.
But you now need to answer my question, which is you see the results over the past 12 years. What the heck do you think they got for a plan?
No offense, but either lay your cards on the table or fold.
I can say that over the past decade, each regime has had a small window to execute a plan.
I would suggest that DGs plan was for the HC to have a plan and use the guys that he selected in that plan...which is really a completely dysfunctional plan if it qualifies at all.
It appears to me that DB/JS are working within' a framework of guys that meet a certain criteria, fit a certain mold and have certain traits. There seems to be a strategy and follow-up tactics that support the plan.
DJ appears to have been a hiccup.
But, he's here and JJ is not. I will spend no more energy hammering the Giants for not picking a QB. I wanted JJ, it didn't happen, I have moved on.
Same for criticizing DJ. I wanted him gone...yet here he is.
Hope isn't a strategy, and as a fan I want the Giants organization to do the right things so that I don't have to rely on hope every year - or can at least reserve hope for bigger accomplishments than maybe winning 9 games.
I'm a Rangers fan. I hope they win the Stanley Cup, and I hope that because before the season started I was 95% sure they would be in the playoffs.
I don't feel that way about the Giants, because they've given me no reason to. The best I can do is hope that I'm wrong, but I'm going to need some actual evidence of that.
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obvious fashion based on the words you chose that fans aren't likely knowledgeable enough to know or see a plan, so don't assume there isn't one.
But you now need to answer my question, which is you see the results over the past 12 years. What the heck do you think they got for a plan?
No offense, but either lay your cards on the table or fold.
Sorry, I'm not playing a game. Clearly, the fanbase does not know if there is a plan. They wouldn't if it were plain as day.
I can say that over the past decade, each regime has had a small window to execute a plan.
I would suggest that DGs plan was for the HC to have a plan and use the guys that he selected in that plan...which is really a completely dysfunctional plan if it qualifies at all.
It appears to me that DB/JS are working within' a framework of guys that meet a certain criteria, fit a certain mold and have certain traits. There seems to be a strategy and follow-up tactics that support the plan.
DJ appears to have been a hiccup.
But, he's here and JJ is not. I will spend no more energy hammering the Giants for not picking a QB. I wanted JJ, it didn't happen, I have moved on.
Same for criticizing DJ. I wanted him gone...yet here he is.
Fair enough Hornet. I think your basic comments on "their plans" speak for themselves as to the main point here...flawed to weak approaches.
As for QB, the criticism isn't any one year as a focal point. It's that the pass on them every year (last 5 drafts for an awful passing team) in lieu of wanting to build up a better roster of position players, and yet the roster isn't close to anything special. Schoen's dilemma imv if we say this same thing by mid-season.
It sounds like, aside from acquiring a new QB, which most agree with, that you are not taking issue with a "plan" rather the results.
Also, BD/JS are not responsible for 5 years of plans or results.
I get the emotional drain of rooting for a perpetually bad team, but I cannot condemn everybody that walks into the building for something that happened prior to or was here, when they arrived.
It sounds like, aside from acquiring a new QB, which most agree with, that you are not taking issue with a "plan" rather the results.
Also, BD/JS are not responsible for 5 years of plans or results.
I get the emotional drain of rooting for a perpetually bad team, but I cannot condemn everybody that walks into the building for something that happened prior to or was here, when they arrived.
Look we can go anyway you want. I am stuck on the fact the franchise doesn't draft QBs since 2019 with the strategy/plan to build up the roster. Yet the roster isn't strong after 5 drafts of doing this, or at least I don't think it is.
And no problem saying JS isn't responsible for prior year's plans/results, except then he shouldn't get any credit for winning in 2022 as Daboll did that with Gettleman's roster.
And now, after this season we would have 3 offseasons of Schoen's free agents and drafts. So this is clearly his team. If that team doesn't win more than it loses in 2024 after sticking with Jones and not drafting QBs the last 3 years in lieu of adding impact players, then his plan/strategy cannot be described as effective or successful imv.
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Between passion and stubborn anger. There is little difference between unchecked optimism and stupidity/insanity. If you hate the franchise and have no hope it will turn around, then how are you a fan? Has the definition of “fan” changed? We can be upset that we are losing. We can disagree with choices made by the front office. We SHOULD feel crushed after an embarrassing, losing season. But when the offseason starts, it’s supposed to be a time to reset and HOPE we get it right.
Hope isn't a strategy, and as a fan I want the Giants organization to do the right things so that I don't have to rely on hope every year - or can at least reserve hope for bigger accomplishments than maybe winning 9 games.
I'm a Rangers fan. I hope they win the Stanley Cup, and I hope that because before the season started I was 95% sure they would be in the playoffs.
I don't feel that way about the Giants, because they've given me no reason to. The best I can do is hope that I'm wrong, but I'm going to need some actual evidence of that.
That’s the definition of toxic
A 22 year old kid road an ATV with other members of the team. In a freak accident, busted his hand up. Instead of concern for the young man’s health, the mob came out n force with pitchforks and torches in tow calling for him to be cut or traded.
Barkley had 2 big injuries. Since returning from the second he had played 47 of 53 games. 5 of those games he played through a shoulder injury like a warrior and helped get us to the playoffs. But here, we only remember the ACL and the foot.
Pretty toxic
And here you are saying you can’t have hope without the team already doing well?
Sure. If you’re hoping for Super Bowl or bust.
Dial that shit back. Hope for a winning season. Get a few of those and hope for the playoffs. Then start hoping for the NFC East then the NFC and then finally THE LEAGUE.
1) The Eli fiasco. Between Mara's pathetic management of the Geno situation and the obvious desire to give Eli the best send-off possible (what a fail), did the Giants prioritize the team or the player? Ok Eli is a legend. Saying goodbye can be messy. That is forgivable
2) What is not forgivable is hiring Dave Gettleman. The guy is a moron. We had zero chance to win with him in charge. If you graphed the 32 GMs on any relevant trait - IQ, self-awareness, willingness to learn, communication skills, understanding of the modern game - there would be 31 GMs tightly clustered and one outlier. Our sack of crap. The Giants valued dealing with someone familiar over winning. Clearly. And add on their "interview list" for the job + the desire to hire Abrams to make it even worse.
3) Daniel. For the past 5 years, parts of Giants leadership have prioritized the personal fulfillment of Daniel over winning. The contract, the comments from Mara, the scholarship. This is all obvious.
Whether it works or not, the JS/BD hires were good. They are legitimately a different and better way of doing business. Unfortunately 3 years later we are still shackled with Daniel.
As a fan, if you value winning, how can you not be massively frustrated and/or apathetic?
And here you are saying you can’t have hope without the team already doing well?
Sure. If you’re hoping for Super Bowl or bust.
Dial that shit back. Hope for a winning season. Get a few of those and hope for the playoffs. Then start hoping for the NFC East then the NFC and then finally THE LEAGUE.
I'm hoping they start doing things to build a team that can contend. I don't live week-to-week or season-to-season, that's how you end up talking yourself a QB after a fluke 9-win season.
Big picture is what matters. And the big picture is that the Giants have been terrible for 12 years.
more so than other fanbases? i would say NY is a tough place and it's easy for them to turn on their team--impatient--and not give them a break or put things in perspective.
the giants have had a few great runs and a few bad ones of which we are in now. but at least there has been 4 super bowl wins, better than average.
but if you think being a giant fan is tough, look no further than the team that shares our stadium. they always expect the worse, and usually get it. seem kind of cursed (ie rogers).
more so than other fanbases? i would say NY is a tough place and it's easy for them to turn on their team--impatient--and not give them a break or put things in perspective.
the giants have had a few great runs and a few bad ones of which we are in now. but at least there has been 4 super bowl wins, better than average.
but if you think being a giant fan is tough, look no further than the team that shares our stadium. they always expect the worse, and usually get it. seem kind of cursed (ie rogers).
Comments like this, with the name calling, are what's toxic...
Everyone is allowed to have they're own opinion, but classifying a negative take as "cry babies" or "complainers" makes that person (in this case being you) look like a amateur.
The Giants have been bad for over a decade. Those with the negative takes have more recent data in their favor.
Also, no. Were certainly not the worst. Philly and Dallas are way more annoying, nationally I think.
They're a joke anyway, but so are the Giants?
The 40-0 game was the best thing that could happen to me I think. Holy shit did that game tell me this team has absolutely no clue how to compete with the leagues best and even ... average teams.
They got pulverized by Miami and Dallas, who both looked like an absolute joke in the playoffs.
Another year of Jones? Barf
Well I disagree with your statement. I read other websites and this one is by far the most toxic. Too many people justify the toxic tone because the team has been bad. That is so lame. It continues here because it is allowed. I sift through the content for information about the team.
Also, no. Were certainly not the worst. Philly and Dallas are way more annoying, nationally I think.
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Something that's interesting - none of the national media is criticizing NYG for passing on McCarthy/Penix/Nix. They got slammed for picking Jones and even got some criticism for passing on QB in 2018. But, nothing this year nationally. So, NYG was not alone in their thinking here.
Yesterday, Tannenbaum and Orlavsky were killing the Giants for passing on JMac.
lol. That just proves they made the right call. One of the worst GMs and a total dumb ass say they should have taken JMM. Can’t be sure but those are two of the worst. Especially Tannenbaum. Who make Gettlman look Ozzie Newsome
They're a joke anyway, but so are the Giants?
The 40-0 game was the best thing that could happen to me I think. Holy shit did that game tell me this team has absolutely no clue how to compete with the leagues best and even ... average teams.
They got pulverized by Miami and Dallas, who both looked like an absolute joke in the playoffs.
Another year of Jones? Barf
That was an ass kicking and a half. If you can't figure that out with a score like that, I have no idea what to tell you.
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don't like the smugness of some Giants fans and the lectures about how bad we were in the 70s and the patronizing way a few people say it's going to take some time to rebuild and yada yada
They're a joke anyway, but so are the Giants?
The 40-0 game was the best thing that could happen to me I think. Holy shit did that game tell me this team has absolutely no clue how to compete with the leagues best and even ... average teams.
They got pulverized by Miami and Dallas, who both looked like an absolute joke in the playoffs.
Another year of Jones? Barf
sooooo... you don't like perspective or logic and find these things patronizing and smug? Or maybe that's the way it looks to you through the rage colored glasses you read with? Case/point: week 1 2023 game was a freakin monsoon! Had a nice drive that ended in a blocked FG returned for a TD. Injuries along the OL, dropped passes became INTs, fumbles lost created short fields for Dallas... it was not an indicator of the teams skill level. Environmental aspects and injury played a huge role. It sucked to watch but it is foolish to acknowledge effects without acknowledging causes. You look at this game (and many others use it as an example also) and you just ignore all of the potential reasons for the embarrassment and go straight to negging the team, players and FO.
Why does the fan base look toxic? Perhaps it is because of posts like this. 40-0 in week 1 wasn't an indication of the team's skill level. Ok.. you are delusional. And we have a high number of delusional fans.
I can tell you that the good leaders share a common perspective about how to judge things.
Always work backwards from results. If the results are bad, then there are leaders in that chain who are bad.
If a unit is under performing, the leader of that unit is probably bad.
If a group is under performing, then the lead of that group is the problem.
A good leader replaces the bad parts.
If the results across the board are bad, then you know, the man at the top is bad.
Always, Always, Always work back from results.
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In comment 16502735 Route 9 said:
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don't like the smugness of some Giants fans and the lectures about how bad we were in the 70s and the patronizing way a few people say it's going to take some time to rebuild and yada yada
They're a joke anyway, but so are the Giants?
The 40-0 game was the best thing that could happen to me I think. Holy shit did that game tell me this team has absolutely no clue how to compete with the leagues best and even ... average teams.
They got pulverized by Miami and Dallas, who both looked like an absolute joke in the playoffs.
Another year of Jones? Barf
sooooo... you don't like perspective or logic and find these things patronizing and smug? Or maybe that's the way it looks to you through the rage colored glasses you read with? Case/point: week 1 2023 game was a freakin monsoon! Had a nice drive that ended in a blocked FG returned for a TD. Injuries along the OL, dropped passes became INTs, fumbles lost created short fields for Dallas... it was not an indicator of the teams skill level. Environmental aspects and injury played a huge role. It sucked to watch but it is foolish to acknowledge effects without acknowledging causes. You look at this game (and many others use it as an example also) and you just ignore all of the potential reasons for the embarrassment and go straight to negging the team, players and FO.
Why does the fan base look toxic? Perhaps it is because of posts like this. 40-0 in week 1 wasn't an indication of the team's skill level. Ok.. you are delusional. And we have a high number of delusional fans.
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In comment 16502845 ZoneXDOA said:
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In comment 16502735 Route 9 said:
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don't like the smugness of some Giants fans and the lectures about how bad we were in the 70s and the patronizing way a few people say it's going to take some time to rebuild and yada yada
They're a joke anyway, but so are the Giants?
The 40-0 game was the best thing that could happen to me I think. Holy shit did that game tell me this team has absolutely no clue how to compete with the leagues best and even ... average teams.
They got pulverized by Miami and Dallas, who both looked like an absolute joke in the playoffs.
Another year of Jones? Barf
sooooo... you don't like perspective or logic and find these things patronizing and smug? Or maybe that's the way it looks to you through the rage colored glasses you read with? Case/point: week 1 2023 game was a freakin monsoon! Had a nice drive that ended in a blocked FG returned for a TD. Injuries along the OL, dropped passes became INTs, fumbles lost created short fields for Dallas... it was not an indicator of the teams skill level. Environmental aspects and injury played a huge role. It sucked to watch but it is foolish to acknowledge effects without acknowledging causes. You look at this game (and many others use it as an example also) and you just ignore all of the potential reasons for the embarrassment and go straight to negging the team, players and FO.
Why does the fan base look toxic? Perhaps it is because of posts like this. 40-0 in week 1 wasn't an indication of the team's skill level. Ok.. you are delusional. And we have a high number of delusional fans.
this is the problem. Why am I delusional? I’m simply saying there was more to that week one loss. Torrential downpour, dropped passes (in part because of said torrential downpour) early injuries contributing to incredibly poor OL play against an infamously fierce pass rush. What was it? 11 sacks that night? But I’m delusional for saying you can’t just look at skill level as the reason for that loss? Honestly? I’m kinda done pissing in the wind.
C'mon.. it was 40-0. They were just godawful. You have to play four quarters, not just one drive.
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In comment 16502928 Darwinian said:
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In comment 16502845 ZoneXDOA said:
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In comment 16502735 Route 9 said:
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don't like the smugness of some Giants fans and the lectures about how bad we were in the 70s and the patronizing way a few people say it's going to take some time to rebuild and yada yada
They're a joke anyway, but so are the Giants?
The 40-0 game was the best thing that could happen to me I think. Holy shit did that game tell me this team has absolutely no clue how to compete with the leagues best and even ... average teams.
They got pulverized by Miami and Dallas, who both looked like an absolute joke in the playoffs.
Another year of Jones? Barf
sooooo... you don't like perspective or logic and find these things patronizing and smug? Or maybe that's the way it looks to you through the rage colored glasses you read with? Case/point: week 1 2023 game was a freakin monsoon! Had a nice drive that ended in a blocked FG returned for a TD. Injuries along the OL, dropped passes became INTs, fumbles lost created short fields for Dallas... it was not an indicator of the teams skill level. Environmental aspects and injury played a huge role. It sucked to watch but it is foolish to acknowledge effects without acknowledging causes. You look at this game (and many others use it as an example also) and you just ignore all of the potential reasons for the embarrassment and go straight to negging the team, players and FO.
Why does the fan base look toxic? Perhaps it is because of posts like this. 40-0 in week 1 wasn't an indication of the team's skill level. Ok.. you are delusional. And we have a high number of delusional fans.
this is the problem. Why am I delusional? I’m simply saying there was more to that week one loss. Torrential downpour, dropped passes (in part because of said torrential downpour) early injuries contributing to incredibly poor OL play against an infamously fierce pass rush. What was it? 11 sacks that night? But I’m delusional for saying you can’t just look at skill level as the reason for that loss? Honestly? I’m kinda done pissing in the wind.
C'mon.. it was 40-0. They were just godawful. You have to play four quarters, not just one drive.
DJ did outplay them
Unequivocally
It doesn't mean he is better
Doesn't mean he hasn't had any stinkers
Doesn't mean he doesn't get injured alot
Doesn't mean he won't turn the ball over...
But those games in question, he was the better QB that day
Part of the head scratching he causes
Part of why Schoen resigned him...
He had flashes of brilliant play
You don't deny that do you?
Amen