- Tried for Drake Maye but the Patriots weren't moving
- The Giants have confidence DJ will be ready for game one
- Lock going to push DJ in training camp
- Giants were more conservative last year at week one despite weapons for D
- Most Giants fans wanted Nabers (not sure about that)
Link - (
New Window )
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NFW more fans wanted Nabers over a ne QB.
Rumors that pick 47 this year wasn't included. Wouldn't have mattered probably.
But hey, "We Tried".
‘As an Eagles fan, I love this news LOL’
‘As an Eagles fan, I love this news LOL’
Yup. The other teams in the division must wake up laughing.
That's what I've thought for a while. Unless they got a ridiculous offer too good to pass up, it was one of these "hey we tried, we really did, but NE wouldn't trade" appease the fans deal. Mara wouldn't undercut his favored son.
Rumors that pick 47 this year wasn't included. Wouldn't have mattered probably.
But hey, "We Tried".
There's no reason to believe this narrative of the Patriots never wanted to trade if we never presented a substantial offer.
"My theory is we never really put in a full effort and NE would have traded for pick 6, 47, 2025 1st and 3rd. "
I don't believe NE ever intended to trade put unless they got a Herschel Walker type deal. They were as QB-needy a team as Chicago and Washington.
We have battled on a lot of things in the past. I think we'll always have some fundamental differences. However, I couldn't agree more about this draft. And Schoen and Daboll really sapped the energy out of me as far as next season is concerned. Whatever they had done prior to last Thursday, they could have simply chosen a different path and made right a lot of wrongs.
It's obvious here that the Giants pursued the only option they knew was "attainable but unattainable". There couldn't be rumors about Chicago and Washington because those would be too hard to sell. New England seemed more open for a trade, but not really when you think about it. Their need for a QB plus Mayo's direct comments at his intro presser all seemed to indicate New England was taking their QB at that spot.
I wasn't sold on any 1 QB at any 1 spot, but the board broke the right way for them for Penix or McCarthy or perhaps a slight trade down to pick up an asset or 2 and grab a QB around 10ish. Hell, at this point, Pratt in the 5th round would give us something to chew on for training camp.
The QB room has gotten worse this offseason if you can actually imagine that, considering where it was in December.
Rumors that pick 47 this year wasn't included. Wouldn't have mattered probably.
But hey, "We Tried".
Sure looked like they tried, though, didn't it?
Which is what?
-and-
NFW more fans wanted Nabers over a ne QB.
For me, I wanted Nabers over A QB but not over the right QB. You draft people, not positions. If they weren't crazy about the QBs left then they made the right call.
The interest in QBs might have been real, but the possibility of taking a QB in rd1 was not. The contract they gave DJ just last year, plus Mara loving DJ and Schoen not wanting to look like an absolute idiot still on the hook for 70 million minimum to Jones over the next two seasons, it just wasn't ever a real possibility I think.
This narrative allows some fans to believe they tried as best they could so there is hope and the roster is being built in the meantime. That's not to say they couldn't pick a QB in rd1 next year, but I really believe Sy is right when he says they weren't going to take one in rd1 this year and they really just wanted teams to potentially jump them so we could get Nabers or MHJ.
The offers I've heard were pick 6 and 2025 1st, Maybe 2025 3rd but no more. That would never be accepted and Minnesota sounds like they offered way more than we did.
I'm not saying there was never interest, when push came to shove it wasn't the right move thats all. I'm glad they didn't trade a king's ransom for Maye. I also don't believe the narrative that suggests they did all they could. You would offer 6, 47 and 2025 1st minimum if you really wanted Maye.
just to illustrate how laughable it is that the Pats pick was going to be had for anything other than a ridiculous trade offer.
2. Once on the roster, look for reasons to keep the QB.
2. Once on the roster, look for reasons to keep the QB.
Yup. And that methodology pre-dates even Gettleman, so you can tell who is actually pulling the strings.
It's unserious.
2. Once on the roster, look for reasons to keep the QB.
Hits the nail on the head.
Super stoked for Giants football this fall…
Quote:
1. Look for reasons to NOT draft a QB.
2. Once on the roster, look for reasons to keep the QB.
Yup. And that methodology pre-dates even Gettleman, so you can tell who is actually pulling the strings.
Of course.
Much easier than admitting you made a mistake.
just to illustrate how laughable it is that the Pats pick was going to be had for anything other than a ridiculous trade offer.
It's the Jones contract. If Jones was franchised, I have little doubt they draft McCarthy at 6. But, they gave Jones $82M guaranteed and already restructured his deal once last September. They weren't taking a QB just to take one.
The contract had major consequences.
In comment 16502772 BleedBlue46 said:
QB's in the NFCE:
Dallas/Prescott
Washington/Daniels
Philadelphia/Hurts
Giants/ Jones? Lock? DeVito? Bozo the clown?
The Giants blew their chance to raise from the cellar last season at the trade deadline by hanging on to the traitor and Xavier McKinney. Both of those players could have been traded for picks which could have helped the team for this season. They may have been in the running for Daniels, but they decided to win some games after the perennially injured "franchise" QB was out for the season. So for this season we get the opportunity to see a non-mobile Jones throw interceptions in an attempt to find his WR's with his inaccurate arm. But he'll work hard, and that's the line we're going to continue hearing about the "franchise" QB (who'd actually be a PS or backup QB on any of the other teams in the NFCE).
The Giants organisation is packaging up Jones for their fans as if he's the new bionic man, but he'll get injured again(the opponents from the NFCE will be targeting his knees, and he'll be on the IR by the 5th or 6th game), but we're being cynical and toxic because we know the truth. The Giants will never advance from the cellar with Jones under center. This franchise is cursed because of the stupidity of the front office for awarding the "franchise" QB with an elite contract for having one season that he was just above mediocre. He's not an elite QB, and never will be. I can't wait until he's gone, and the franchise might recover from the rabbit hole they're in. Until then, we're doomed for supporting a team without a QB.
But wasn't this the general consensus? That Caleb, Daniels, and Maye were in the top tier (i.e., potential franchise QBs) and the other 3 weren't? If that's how Schoen saw it, the outcome makes perfect sense. Seems like people are making this more complicated than it is
Quote:
1. Look for reasons to NOT draft a QB.
2. Once on the roster, look for reasons to keep the QB.
Yup. And that methodology pre-dates even Gettleman, so you can tell who is actually pulling the strings.
It's weird though because if you go back historically before Jones and during a span that includes both Gettleman and Reese, and during a time they actually had a good QB, they made some very decent investments in the position in terms of draft picks.
2008 a 6th on Andre Woodson. Not a high pick but that was firmly in Eli's prime.
2009 a 5th on Rhett Bomar. Again during Eli's prime.
2013 a 4th on Nassib. This was after a shaky year for Eli and a little bit of a higher draft investment in round 4.
2017 a 3rd for Davis Webb. 2nd day pick.
2018 a 4th on Kyle Lauletta. Nearing the end for Eli. A Gettleman pick. Not a throw away in the 4th round.
Point is, it feels like we're stuck in some Daniel Jones twilight zone. Under other GM's and under different/better circumstances we were spending some picks up to and including 3rd rounders to take a chance at improving the position. We have now gone through 5 drafts AFTER Jones was selected and have not done anything at the position. Unbelievable.
It's unserious.
I'm sure after they win 7-8 games they'll be able to find a QB they love in 2025. Definitely.
I mean there's no way that happens and then they restructure Jones because the "arrow is pointing up" right?
I don't think Schoen/Daboll view Jones as the long term franchise QB. His contract was on the short side for QB's with an out after year 2. They're likely viewing him as a bridge while they search for their Josh Allen which I could see them viewing Maye as over McCarthy.
Time may run out on them, unless Mara has made them some assurances sticking with Jones is a gamble, he's a coach killer. But I do think they made an attempt to trade up for Maye.
Quote:
.
Which is what?
1) The Giants have confidence in DJ being ready week 1. And 2) The Giants moving up and giving up valuable draft picks (this year and next year) to make a complete about face on a player they just extended a year ago wasn't very likely imo.
The path of least resistance was always to admit their own failures last year regarding roster construction (OL, Waller, etc) and coaching (Bobby Johnson and Wink) and make a decision next year when things are financially more reasonable to make a move AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, building the team around DJ, i.e. WR1 AND OL to make a full assessment for moving on or letting him play out his contract in 2025 and perhaps beyond.
"When I said 76.9% chance #Giants take QB I thought teams might move off 2 or 3.
"I think they... I don't think, I KNOW they went into this process thinking if they can land a guy who can be a FQB, they're going to land that guy."
They don't think JJM was the guy. Maybe they end up being wrong. But the facts are simple and boring. They believed in Maye, not JJM.
Hanlon really has no respect for the intellect of the fanbase. The Giants signed Lock because he was cheaper than the Darnolds, Brissetts, and Taylors of the world.
And in the event they picked a quarterback, they would have had three quarterbacks on the payroll with guaranteed money. They weren't going to give Taylor 8.75M in guaranteed money, then pay Jones 36M, and a top 6 rookie.
Assume all the NE trade noise is true - the Giants really liked Drake Maye. A lot. The disconnect many are having is that the Giants did not like McCarthy, Penix and Nix. I think they probably did like one or two of them a lot. They may have even had first round grades on one or two of them.
Why didn't they take one at #6? Because they don't think any of those guys will be as good as Daniel Jones. Garofolo said it himself - they like and believe in Jones. That is not smoke. They found (at least) one QB they liked more this year - Drake Maye. They did not believe the other guys can help the team win more than Daniel Jones.
The Giants are absolutely not done with Daniel Jones. They are willing to replace him if they absolutely love a guy like Maye, but it is clear they have a guy they believe they can win with with the right weapons and right coach.
I just don’t see an in between. My gut says they try and change the QB room next off-season but we will have another year before we know for sure.
Parris Campbell, Waller, swing tackle, Neal, Glowinski, McKethan playing RG, Ezeudu playing LT, keeping Andrew Thomas in game 1 when he was clearly injured and hobbled, Wink's defense was asleep for the first several games of the season. It was a total shitshow.
I think they had a mandate to improve and build the team and finally fix the OL.
Hence, why we have seen some very aggressive moves to do just that. Burns trade, signing 2 OL, vet OL depth (something we didnt have last year), new OL coach, new DC, etc.
I don't think Schoen/Daboll view Jones as the long term franchise QB. His contract was on the short side for QB's with an out after year 2. They're likely viewing him as a bridge while they search for their Josh Allen which I could see them viewing Maye as over McCarthy.
Time may run out on them, unless Mara has made them some assurances sticking with Jones is a gamble, he's a coach killer. But I do think they made an attempt to trade up for Maye.
I'll believe they're done with Jones when he's actually gone, he's got alligator blood.
But if JS/BD aren't committed to Jones, what's their realistic plan for replacing him, other than Jones falling flat on his face and having a top-3 pick?
Because they had their crack at 3 QBs at 6 this year, how's it going to work if they're drafting 8-14 next year? They clearly only "loved" Maye, are they going to fall in love with any of the 2025 class of QBs who will be available?
If you're right I think the Giants have a major QB evaluation problem, which wouldn't be surprising given they saw fit to pay Jones up to $160M.
Any way you slice it, it isn't good.
Assume all the NE trade noise is true - the Giants really liked Drake Maye. A lot. The disconnect many are having is that the Giants did not like McCarthy, Penix and Nix. I think they probably did like one or two of them a lot. They may have even had first round grades on one or two of them.
Why didn't they take one at #6? Because they don't think any of those guys will be as good as Daniel Jones. Garofolo said it himself - they like and believe in Jones. That is not smoke. They found (at least) one QB they liked more this year - Drake Maye. They did not believe the other guys can help the team win more than Daniel Jones.
The Giants are absolutely not done with Daniel Jones. They are willing to replace him if they absolutely love a guy like Maye, but it is clear they have a guy they believe they can win with with the right weapons and right coach.
we disagree on a lot but i think this is 100% correct.
I imagine 2/3 of the league would replace their QB if they found themselves in spitting distance of getting a top 3 prospect, for the talent and economics.
Trying to get Maye is absolutely not a vote of no confidence in Jones. It was an opportunity of circumstance.
Hanlon really has no respect for the intellect of the fanbase. The Giants signed Lock because he was cheaper than the Darnolds, Brissetts, and Taylors of the world.
And in the event they picked a quarterback, they would have had three quarterbacks on the payroll with guaranteed money. They weren't going to give Taylor 8.75M in guaranteed money, then pay Jones 36M, and a top 6 rookie.
christian, in all honesty, I'd prefer Lock to Taylor. I just cannot get over how easily Taylor is injured and how often he throws the ball 2 or 3 yards short of his WRs. Like lawn darts ate WRs feet.
I like his feistiness, I think he is a smart, smart QB. But backups cannot go out and get easily injured(his M.O.). He kept underthrowing Hyatt and Slayton. I am ok with Taylor moving on.
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faking trying to trade for Maye. Its more than likely we called the Patriots, made the offer and just got "we're picking Maye unless we get your whole draft" and things stopped there.
I don't think Schoen/Daboll view Jones as the long term franchise QB. His contract was on the short side for QB's with an out after year 2. They're likely viewing him as a bridge while they search for their Josh Allen which I could see them viewing Maye as over McCarthy.
Time may run out on them, unless Mara has made them some assurances sticking with Jones is a gamble, he's a coach killer. But I do think they made an attempt to trade up for Maye.
I'll believe they're done with Jones when he's actually gone, he's got alligator blood.
But if JS/BD aren't committed to Jones, what's their realistic plan for replacing him, other than Jones falling flat on his face and having a top-3 pick?
Because they had their crack at 3 QBs at 6 this year, how's it going to work if they're drafting 8-14 next year? They clearly only "loved" Maye, are they going to fall in love with any of the 2025 class of QBs who will be available?
100%.
If you're right I think the Giants have a major QB evaluation problem, which wouldn't be surprising given they saw fit to pay Jones up to $160M.
Any way you slice it, it isn't good.
guy who wanted to draft Malik Willis 5th overall thinks guys who traded up for Josh Allen over Josh Rosen and turned Tommy Cutlets into a thing have QB evaluation problems? that about cover it?
Their offer was fair. NE simply didn't want to trade. They would have been idiots to do so. The first rule of drafting is that you don't trade down if you need a QB and can take one at your pick. You reject all trade offers and make the pick.
But the fact that the Giants made that offer proves they are done with Jones. Whether that is because of performance or injury reasons, or likely both, is irrelevant. Jones would need to stay healthy and have a fantastic season to be on the Giants by this time next year. And if he does then he will be cut in 2026 when the dead cap hit for doing so will only be $11M IIRC. In either case, Jones is now at best a "bridge starter" for a year or two at most.
I would have taken JJM at #6, but the Giants obviously had Nabers in a higher tier, which is fine. Several teams also apparently tried to trade up to #5 or #6 to take Nabers.
I sure hope we get some rowdy, pissed of fans in there this year. It's the only hope.
We sports fans are a funny breed.
Quote:
The only way Lock pushes Jones in camp is if gets behind him with two hands.
Hanlon really has no respect for the intellect of the fanbase. The Giants signed Lock because he was cheaper than the Darnolds, Brissetts, and Taylors of the world.
And in the event they picked a quarterback, they would have had three quarterbacks on the payroll with guaranteed money. They weren't going to give Taylor 8.75M in guaranteed money, then pay Jones 36M, and a top 6 rookie.
christian, in all honesty, I'd prefer Lock to Taylor. I just cannot get over how easily Taylor is injured and how often he throws the ball 2 or 3 yards short of his WRs. Like lawn darts ate WRs feet.
I like his feistiness, I think he is a smart, smart QB. But backups cannot go out and get easily injured(his M.O.). He kept underthrowing Hyatt and Slayton. I am ok with Taylor moving on.
And the 2 to 3 yards short is on throws less than 15 yards, never mind the bombs...
They wanted WR1 the entire time and that’s what they got.
Rumors that pick 47 this year wasn't included. Wouldn't have mattered probably.
But hey, "We Tried".
I've been thinking the same thing. There's no way you can say you really wanted to move up while only including one other pick. Only offering a first next year is that perfect line where there's no way they'll say yes and if they somehow did you'd be ecstatic. I think if the Pats had agreed they would've picked Harrison.
Not offering more and then passing on Penix and JJ, while others almost immediately after didn't pass, says how confident they are in their ability to develop QBs.
Say what you want about them as prospects but there's no way I'll believe we'll be in a position to select a more complete QB than those 3 with this regime. The Vikings already have their elite LSU WR and a decent team overall who'd they draft? He wouldn't have made it to them in an average draft.
If these guys can't turn decent QB prospects into starters what are they good at?
Hanlon really has no respect for the intellect of the fanbase. The Giants signed Lock because he was cheaper than the Darnolds, Brissetts, and Taylors of the world.
And in the event they picked a quarterback, they would have had three quarterbacks on the payroll with guaranteed money. They weren't going to give Taylor 8.75M in guaranteed money, then pay Jones 36M, and a top 6 rookie.
christian, in all honesty, I'd prefer Lock to Taylor. I just cannot get over how easily Taylor is injured and how often he throws the ball 2 or 3 yards short of his WRs. Like lawn darts ate WRs feet.
I like his feistiness, I think he is a smart, smart QB. But backups cannot go out and get easily injured(his M.O.). He kept underthrowing Hyatt and Slayton. I am ok with Taylor moving on.
Lock can't make plays with his legs, and he's a total mess in the accuracy department.
The Giants traded Taylor's durability issues for Lock's knowing how to play quarterback issues.
Hanlon really has no respect for the intellect of the fanbase. The Giants signed Lock because he was cheaper than the Darnolds, Brissetts, and Taylors of the world.
And in the event they picked a quarterback, they would have had three quarterbacks on the payroll with guaranteed money. They weren't going to give Taylor 8.75M in guaranteed money, then pay Jones 36M, and a top 6 rookie.
i veer more to this opinion than against, but i will say id have said same thing about geno i would say about lock today. and similar things re purdy after his first year as id say about devito today. i didnt expect either of those guys to be able to do it again in 2023 and they did. i didnt think geno would do it the first time in 2022.
daboll has shown he can get mileage out of flawed QBs. even davis webb looked half way decent in his 1 and only game. i think jones would have to be impacted by injury or totally tank for lock to get that shot, but i wouldnt be totally surprised if they view lock as a more risk/reward option than a pure backup like tyrod. and maybe having devito makes it easier to go for upside?
Quote:
All reasonable.
If you're right I think the Giants have a major QB evaluation problem, which wouldn't be surprising given they saw fit to pay Jones up to $160M.
Any way you slice it, it isn't good.
guy who wanted to draft Malik Willis 5th overall thinks guys who traded up for Josh Allen over Josh Rosen and turned Tommy Cutlets into a thing have QB evaluation problems? that about cover it?
You might have left out "guy who uses salary cap expertise as a convenient cover for his unending DJ enthusiasm tries to take a shot at fellow fan who has generally been more astute in his outlook for NYG than the actual front office has for the past decade."
IF assumption is true and that was all Mr Barkley wanted, then it is fair to hold these 2 accountable for where is it that extra guaranteed money given to others makes the team, more competitive and translates into more wins to have us all want to tune in. We shall see. That isn't being impatient, that's looking for accountability in decision making. Especially true if Barkley lights it up with the birds, and we here "How could you let Barkley walk?" all year from our philly bretheren.
If Barkley flops, gets hurt, etc. Then point is moot.
If however, Barkley wanted to jump ship to the birds no matter what Schoen threw at him. Can't fault the kid for wanting to win and get paid, then it goes back to improving on the season win / loss total.
Can't ever remember a year where I was less enthused for a season of giants football, no interest in putting their brand on my body, didn't watch the draft, and just have a general sense of apathy with this team. We are primed for a BB reunion narrative should this year be a total fail.
Just occurred to me, who are the giants captains going to be on offense to keep everyone together and not packing it in? No Barkley, No Shep, Slayton holding out, this can get ugly fast.
Nothing. They want guys that will play within their system. I thought Nix would do well. But he was never a choice. He will do well in Denver for Sean Payton.
I loved Penix arm(sure they did too), but he cannot run Daboll's RPO style offense. Won't see the field for two years.
Not sure of McCarthy, but it seems they didn't like what they saw. If Cousins can do well there, so can McCarthy.
Quote:
In comment 16502825 Sean said:
Quote:
1. Look for reasons to NOT draft a QB.
2. Once on the roster, look for reasons to keep the QB.
Yup. And that methodology pre-dates even Gettleman, so you can tell who is actually pulling the strings.
It's weird though because if you go back historically before Jones and during a span that includes both Gettleman and Reese, and during a time they actually had a good QB, they made some very decent investments in the position in terms of draft picks.
2008 a 6th on Andre Woodson. Not a high pick but that was firmly in Eli's prime.
2009 a 5th on Rhett Bomar. Again during Eli's prime.
2013 a 4th on Nassib. This was after a shaky year for Eli and a little bit of a higher draft investment in round 4.
2017 a 3rd for Davis Webb. 2nd day pick.
2018 a 4th on Kyle Lauletta. Nearing the end for Eli. A Gettleman pick. Not a throw away in the 4th round.
Point is, it feels like we're stuck in some Daniel Jones twilight zone. Under other GM's and under different/better circumstances we were spending some picks up to and including 3rd rounders to take a chance at improving the position. We have now gone through 5 drafts AFTER Jones was selected and have not done anything at the position. Unbelievable.
But all the guys you mentioned turned out to be wasted picks. The odds of finding your franchise QB in rounds 4-6 are close to zero. Has it ever happened outside of Brady?
This year may not tell us a lot about their evaluation skills because McCarthy and Nix will be rookies and likely struggle like most rookie QBs do. Penix will likely not play outside of the preseason. If one of them flashes like Stroud did this year, then yes they probably missed.
What we will know at the end of the 2024 season is if they were right in their belief that Jones can stay healthy and play well for a full year.
If they were right, we should get a really strong year from Jones which will keep him under center for 2025. After 2025 we will know if passing on the three QBs available was a good decision.
Quote:
What will that day about The Giants ability to evaluate qb position?
This year may not tell us a lot about their evaluation skills because McCarthy and Nix will be rookies and likely struggle like most rookie QBs do. Penix will likely not play outside of the preseason. If one of them flashes like Stroud did this year, then yes they probably missed.
What we will know at the end of the 2024 season is if they were right in their belief that Jones can stay healthy and play well for a full year.
If they were right, we should get a really strong year from Jones which will keep him under center for 2025. After 2025 we will know if passing on the three QBs available was a good decision.
One slight quibble...this year tells us a lot about their evaluation skills. They're paying over $50M for a Jones/Lock/DeVito QB room.
Hanlon really has no respect for the intellect of the fanbase. The Giants signed Lock because he was cheaper than the Darnolds, Brissetts, and Taylors of the world.
And in the event they picked a quarterback, they would have had three quarterbacks on the payroll with guaranteed money. They weren't going to give Taylor 8.75M in guaranteed money, then pay Jones 36M, and a top 6 rookie.
i veer more to this opinion than against, but i will say id have said same thing about geno i would say about lock today. and similar things re purdy after his first year as id say about devito today. i didnt expect either of those guys to be able to do it again in 2023 and they did. i didnt think geno would do it the first time in 2022.
daboll has shown he can get mileage out of flawed QBs. even davis webb looked half way decent in his 1 and only game. i think jones would have to be impacted by injury or totally tank for lock to get that shot, but i wouldnt be totally surprised if they view lock as a more risk/reward option than a pure backup like tyrod. and maybe having devito makes it easier to go for upside?
Maybe there's some lottery ticket element. He definitely got some good ink from the win against Philly late in the year (same Philly defense Taylor poured gas on for 6 quarters).
I think on March 12th the Giants calculated:
36M in guaranteed new cash to Jones for 2024
36.6M in guaranteed cash to pick 3 on a rookie deal
Maybe we hold our horses a little on the backup/potential 3rd string QB
Quote:
In comment 16502879 Go Terps said:
Quote:
All reasonable.
If you're right I think the Giants have a major QB evaluation problem, which wouldn't be surprising given they saw fit to pay Jones up to $160M.
Any way you slice it, it isn't good.
guy who wanted to draft Malik Willis 5th overall thinks guys who traded up for Josh Allen over Josh Rosen and turned Tommy Cutlets into a thing have QB evaluation problems? that about cover it?
You might have left out "guy who uses salary cap expertise as a convenient cover for his unending DJ enthusiasm tries to take a shot at fellow fan who has generally been more astute in his outlook for NYG than the actual front office has for the past decade."
i was worried about you Dunk, you havent tried to white knight for someone else's stupid comment in a few weeks. guess it was harder to get off your well workshopped jones zinger when i was predicting they were taking jjm?
I imagine 2/3 of the league would replace their QB if they found themselves in spitting distance of getting a top 3 prospect, for the talent and economics.
Trying to get Maye is absolutely not a
vote of no confidence in Jones. It was an opportunity of circumstance.
+1 Had to look into a trade options if you have a conviction on a QB, but it wass never going to ANY QB like BBI thinks. Replace him at all cost smh. BBI has failed to realize their views of DJ is not in alignment with owner, GM and coach.
You dont sign extend a QB to that contract if you didnt believe in him.
IF assumption is true and that was all Mr Barkley wanted, then it is fair to hold these 2 accountable for where is it that extra guaranteed money given to others makes the team, more competitive and translates into more wins to have us all want to tune in. We shall see. That isn't being impatient, that's looking for accountability in decision making. Especially true if Barkley lights it up with the birds, and we here "How could you let Barkley walk?" all year from our philly bretheren.
If Barkley flops, gets hurt, etc. Then point is moot.
If however, Barkley wanted to jump ship to the birds no matter what Schoen threw at him. Can't fault the kid for wanting to win and get paid, then it goes back to improving on the season win / loss total.
Can't ever remember a year where I was less enthused for a season of giants football, no interest in putting their brand on my body, didn't watch the draft, and just have a general sense of apathy with this team. We are primed for a BB reunion narrative should this year be a total fail.
Just occurred to me, who are the giants captains going to be on offense to keep everyone together and not packing it in? No Barkley, No Shep, Slayton holding out, this can get ugly fast.
Holy crap, get off Barkley. He had his best deal over Bye Week 2022. Basically the same deal he took from the Eagles a year and a half later. That is on him. And yes he will do well there. The Eagles have a VG line. He will not be getting tackle at the handoff.
Jones is safe unless he gets hurt again or plays himself out of the job.
Quote:
In comment 16502830 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 16502825 Sean said:
Quote:
1. Look for reasons to NOT draft a QB.
2. Once on the roster, look for reasons to keep the QB.
Yup. And that methodology pre-dates even Gettleman, so you can tell who is actually pulling the strings.
It's weird though because if you go back historically before Jones and during a span that includes both Gettleman and Reese, and during a time they actually had a good QB, they made some very decent investments in the position in terms of draft picks.
2008 a 6th on Andre Woodson. Not a high pick but that was firmly in Eli's prime.
2009 a 5th on Rhett Bomar. Again during Eli's prime.
2013 a 4th on Nassib. This was after a shaky year for Eli and a little bit of a higher draft investment in round 4.
2017 a 3rd for Davis Webb. 2nd day pick.
2018 a 4th on Kyle Lauletta. Nearing the end for Eli. A Gettleman pick. Not a throw away in the 4th round.
Point is, it feels like we're stuck in some Daniel Jones twilight zone. Under other GM's and under different/better circumstances we were spending some picks up to and including 3rd rounders to take a chance at improving the position. We have now gone through 5 drafts AFTER Jones was selected and have not done anything at the position. Unbelievable.
But all the guys you mentioned turned out to be wasted picks. The odds of finding your franchise QB in rounds 4-6 are close to zero. Has it ever happened outside of Brady?
Not every QB pick is a wasted pick just because it doesn't yield a QB1. Nassib, for instance, was an adequate (and cheap) QB2 for a stretch. And then occasionally, as a function of simply taking more swings, they'd have a possibility that one of those late round QB picks could potentially be a Prescott, a Purdy, or - gasp! - a Brady. It's highly unlikely and extremely remote, but a greater-than-zero possibility exists.
But the Giants haven't even taken the bat off their shoulder in half a decade now.
I hope not... I think he'll get "pushed" by Lock and I'm sure he's extremely motivated to prove his doubters and critics wrong. I'm sure he's heard the media over the last few months.
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The only way Lock pushes Jones in camp is if gets behind him with two hands.
Hanlon really has no respect for the intellect of the fanbase. The Giants signed Lock because he was cheaper than the Darnolds, Brissetts, and Taylors of the world.
And in the event they picked a quarterback, they would have had three quarterbacks on the payroll with guaranteed money. They weren't going to give Taylor 8.75M in guaranteed money, then pay Jones 36M, and a top 6 rookie.
i veer more to this opinion than against, but i will say id have said same thing about geno i would say about lock today. and similar things re purdy after his first year as id say about devito today. i didnt expect either of those guys to be able to do it again in 2023 and they did. i didnt think geno would do it the first time in 2022.
daboll has shown he can get mileage out of flawed QBs. even davis webb looked half way decent in his 1 and only game. i think jones would have to be impacted by injury or totally tank for lock to get that shot, but i wouldnt be totally surprised if they view lock as a more risk/reward option than a pure backup like tyrod. and maybe having devito makes it easier to go for upside?
Maybe there's some lottery ticket element. He definitely got some good ink from the win against Philly late in the year (same Philly defense Taylor poured gas on for 6 quarters).
I think on March 12th the Giants calculated:
36M in guaranteed new cash to Jones for 2024
36.6M in guaranteed cash to pick 3 on a rookie deal
Maybe we hold our horses a little on the backup/potential 3rd string QB
I was actually surprised they signed any veteran QB, and Lock in particularly was surprising to me when they signed him. When they signed him that was the first time i thought they may cut Jones because i thought the odds of a 1st round qb were higher than they turned out i guess.
I thought they would wait until after the draft and sign a veteran only if they missed on a QB in the draft (like say Tannehill or Bridgewater who are still out there).
Having seen how everything has played out now, i wonder if they viewed Lock (still just 27) as somewhat comparable prospect to a penix/nix. only 2-3 years older but also a little more experienced. at the time they signed him they had probably already gone far enough in their QB evals that they knew who was in their top category (maye) and who wasn't.
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In comment 16502888 kelly said:
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What will that day about The Giants ability to evaluate qb position?
This year may not tell us a lot about their evaluation skills because McCarthy and Nix will be rookies and likely struggle like most rookie QBs do. Penix will likely not play outside of the preseason. If one of them flashes like Stroud did this year, then yes they probably missed.
What we will know at the end of the 2024 season is if they were right in their belief that Jones can stay healthy and play well for a full year.
If they were right, we should get a really strong year from Jones which will keep him under center for 2025. After 2025 we will know if passing on the three QBs available was a good decision.
One slight quibble...this year tells us a lot about their evaluation skills. They're paying over $50M for a Jones/Lock/DeVito QB room.
You and me and a lot of other people agree with that. Schoen and many other people think that is about right for the talent in that room.
Schoen sees a solid NFL starter he can win with in Jones. Saying that doesn't mean I agree with it.
One slight quibble...this year tells us a lot about their evaluation skills. They're paying over $50M for a Jones/Lock/DeVito QB room.
You make good points on things, but man you come up with weird shit. Every team has back up QBs and PS QBs. Their money is irrelevant. Piss and moan about Jones, fine. Piss and moan about backup Qb and the PS guy, why?
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Sounds to me like Daniel Jones better not assume the job is safe.
Jones is safe unless he gets hurt again or plays himself out of the job.
About as safe as you would expect the worst quarterback in the league to be safe.
"Well workshopped" in the five minutes that existed between your post and my reply?
I appreciate your view of my efficiency, but I can assure you that my zinger was completely unrehearsed improv.
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In comment 16502852 Chris684 said:
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In comment 16502830 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16502825 Sean said:
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1. Look for reasons to NOT draft a QB.
2. Once on the roster, look for reasons to keep the QB.
Yup. And that methodology pre-dates even Gettleman, so you can tell who is actually pulling the strings.
It's weird though because if you go back historically before Jones and during a span that includes both Gettleman and Reese, and during a time they actually had a good QB, they made some very decent investments in the position in terms of draft picks.
2008 a 6th on Andre Woodson. Not a high pick but that was firmly in Eli's prime.
2009 a 5th on Rhett Bomar. Again during Eli's prime.
2013 a 4th on Nassib. This was after a shaky year for Eli and a little bit of a higher draft investment in round 4.
2017 a 3rd for Davis Webb. 2nd day pick.
2018 a 4th on Kyle Lauletta. Nearing the end for Eli. A Gettleman pick. Not a throw away in the 4th round.
Point is, it feels like we're stuck in some Daniel Jones twilight zone. Under other GM's and under different/better circumstances we were spending some picks up to and including 3rd rounders to take a chance at improving the position. We have now gone through 5 drafts AFTER Jones was selected and have not done anything at the position. Unbelievable.
But all the guys you mentioned turned out to be wasted picks. The odds of finding your franchise QB in rounds 4-6 are close to zero. Has it ever happened outside of Brady?
Not every QB pick is a wasted pick just because it doesn't yield a QB1. Nassib, for instance, was an adequate (and cheap) QB2 for a stretch. And then occasionally, as a function of simply taking more swings, they'd have a possibility that one of those late round QB picks could potentially be a Prescott, a Purdy, or - gasp! - a Brady. It's highly unlikely and extremely remote, but a greater-than-zero possibility exists.
But the Giants haven't even taken the bat off their shoulder in half a decade now.
So, waste a pick on a QB that cannot even be a special teamer on a team with multiple serious holes. At least the 5th or 6th round guy can cover KO, punts and returns even if only a backup RB, LB or DB.
Yes, I understand the concept or sometimes you just gotta say WTF. But I also understand that even a 5th/6th round RB has a better chance of making a contribution at more than one position that a 5th or 6th round QB cannot.
He admitted as such because of Daniels' injuries. Lock is a $5M insurance.
It's risky because they could very easily be a Lock injury from being forced to apart Tommy DeVito again.
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One slight quibble...this year tells us a lot about their evaluation skills. They're paying over $50M for a Jones/Lock/DeVito QB room.
You make good points on things, but man you come up with weird shit. Every team has back up QBs and PS QBs. Their money is irrelevant. Piss and moan about Jones, fine. Piss and moan about backup Qb and the PS guy, why?
It's relevant because it's arguably the worst quarterback room in the league despite being the fifth most expensive. Not only is the starter horrible, but there is no young future starter in the pipeline. There's nothing there. In fact if Jones gets hurt again they might be entering 2025 with zero of these 3 even on the roster.
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If the Giants tried to trade up for a qb then Schoen is not as comfortable with Jones as some think.
He admitted as such because of Daniels' injuries. Lock is a $5M insurance.
It's risky because they could very easily be a Lock injury from being forced to apart Tommy DeVito again.
If those QB injuries developed, you can be assured that DeVito would win some meaningless games at the end of the season to drop the Giants further down in the draft yet again.
Understatement of the century.
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In comment 16502907 Go Terps said:
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One slight quibble...this year tells us a lot about their evaluation skills. They're paying over $50M for a Jones/Lock/DeVito QB room.
You make good points on things, but man you come up with weird shit. Every team has back up QBs and PS QBs. Their money is irrelevant. Piss and moan about Jones, fine. Piss and moan about backup Qb and the PS guy, why?
It's relevant because it's arguably the worst quarterback room in the league despite being the fifth most expensive. Not only is the starter horrible, but there is no young future starter in the pipeline. There's nothing there. In fact if Jones gets hurt again they might be entering 2025 with zero of these 3 even on the roster.
It is the worst QB room in the league. On a par with the Raiders.
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In comment 16502907 Go Terps said:
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One slight quibble...this year tells us a lot about their evaluation skills. They're paying over $50M for a Jones/Lock/DeVito QB room.
You make good points on things, but man you come up with weird shit. Every team has back up QBs and PS QBs. Their money is irrelevant. Piss and moan about Jones, fine. Piss and moan about backup Qb and the PS guy, why?
It's relevant because it's arguably the worst quarterback room in the league despite being the fifth most expensive. Not only is the starter horrible, but there is no young future starter in the pipeline. There's nothing there. In fact if Jones gets hurt again they might be entering 2025 with zero of these 3 even on the roster.
Ok, you can argue over the worst room. And it is irrelevant because you don't include backups. Backups are backups. They get paid between $2 and $10 mill.
And BTW, they were not getting Wilson. Wilson went to a team with a better chance of making the playoff where he could start (Says a lot about Giants darling Kenny Picket that he is already superceded)
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they were not worried about what fans thought
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NFW more fans wanted Nabers over a ne QB.
For me, I wanted Nabers over A QB but not over the right QB. You draft people, not positions. If they weren't crazy about the QBs left then they made the right call.
+1
When we had Eli they could fill the room with Rhett Bomars. When you have Jones you need a guy who can play at least 5 or 6 games and be semi-competent.
BBI is a pretty big audience that would be a reasonable sample size for any survey. And it seems like most of BBI have flipped against Jones. So, I would love to know the fans he is supposedly speaking to...
That part of the conversation felt made up to me by Garafolo. In fact, it sounded like something 1925 Giants Way would think, and MG is just repeating it as fact...
Maybe they view him as a developmental diamond in the rough. But that feels like a strange project when your starter has durability issues and an egg might cost your job.
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i was worried about you Dunk, you havent tried to white knight for someone else's stupid comment in a few weeks. guess it was harder to get off your well workshopped jones zinger when i was predicting they were taking jjm?
"Well workshopped" in the five minutes that existed between your post and my reply?
I appreciate your view of my efficiency, but I can assure you that my zinger was completely unrehearsed improv.
ok well 1 note, would have probably landed better on a thread where said cap expertise was mentioned. but i get it, a little harder to mock the opinion that daboll has a pretty good track record with qbs.
I'll go with the "management made a big investment in a guy who isn't very good."
This one hasn't done me wrong in the last year.
Maybe they view him as a developmental diamond in the rough. But that feels like a strange project when your starter has durability issues and an egg might cost your job.
i agree with low floor and i agree strange project.
id have spent the $5m on a player that could have helped in FA (maybe an extra $1m gtd to tredavious white changes his mind) and then either taken on fields for cheap as the backup or waited until now after the draft and tried to sign whoever was left cheap. even a josh dobbs type.
i think the only reason you give drew lock 5m is if you kind of like drew lock, and given how they treated the tier 2 qbs in this draft im kind of thinking they viewed drew lock as a flier not so far from them in both talents/flaws.
Their offer was fair. NE simply didn't want to trade. They would have been idiots to do so. The first rule of drafting is that you don't trade down if you need a QB and can take one at your pick. You reject all trade offers and make the pick.
But the fact that the Giants made that offer proves they are done with Jones. Whether that is because of performance or injury reasons, or likely both, is irrelevant. Jones would need to stay healthy and have a fantastic season to be on the Giants by this time next year. And if he does then he will be cut in 2026 when the dead cap hit for doing so will only be $11M IIRC. In either case, Jones is now at best a "bridge starter" for a year or two at most.
I would have taken JJM at #6, but the Giants obviously had Nabers in a higher tier, which is fine. Several teams also apparently tried to trade up to #5 or #6 to take Nabers.
I'll say it again, the Giants offer to the Patriots was not fair. No ifs, ands, or buts about it, the ONLY way an offer is fair is when both sides agree upon it, and the exchange is made.
82, going on 83, year old Robert Kraft wants a franchise QB NOW, likely being his last shot at seeing the Patriots, once again, compete.
The Giants knew they weren't getting Maye, but talked it up like there was a good chance they were.
The Mara/Schoen/Daboll goal was always to stick with DJ, in an effort to save face, if he has a good 2024. Such a year will overshadow his being overdrafted, 5 years of mediocre play, Mara blindly sticking with him, Schoen's bloated contract with him, Daboll's inability to fix him, etc...They are people who do not like to admit that they make mistakes.
My guess is that he's been told, we improved the OL and WR, no more excuses. Start throwing downfield effectively, start winning (against .500+ teams) or it may be over
Nobody is butt hurt. I think most want to blame Mara because it feels better than admitting Schoen may be the one who is the problem.
I am willing to admit I think it may be a little of each.
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Putting aside my irrational hatred for Lock (which is rooted in wanting him at 17 in 2019, and watching a lot of the Broncos in 2020) -- I just think he's a very low floor.
Maybe they view him as a developmental diamond in the rough. But that feels like a strange project when your starter has durability issues and an egg might cost your job.
i agree with low floor and i agree strange project.
id have spent the $5m on a player that could have helped in FA (maybe an extra $1m gtd to tredavious white changes his mind) and then either taken on fields for cheap as the backup or waited until now after the draft and tried to sign whoever was left cheap. even a josh dobbs type.
i think the only reason you give drew lock 5m is if you kind of like drew lock, and given how they treated the tier 2 qbs in this draft im kind of thinking they viewed drew lock as a flier not so far from them in both talents/flaws.
It was shocking I agree for sure, Although he didn't look bad filling in for Geno last year. Especially against us lol. But I just figured Daboll and staff saw something he liked with Lock, something he could work with. I'm guessing they took a lot away from facing him live. Maybe there's something there? Who knows. One thing I do know is pretty clear, they certainly like Jones WAY better than anyone that cries about him every day here.
webb looked lost from day 1 so it wasnt a surprise he could never get on the field anywhere. lock was better than that. so the fact that webb even looked halfway usable with daboll makes me think maybe there's some hope for lock. i would bet against that but i also was betting against geno the last 2 years.
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Sounds to me like Daniel Jones better not assume the job is safe.
Jones is safe unless he gets hurt again or plays himself out of the job.
What exactly does playing himself out of a job look like? It’s been 5 years of mostly mediocre to much worse than mediocre QB play. I’d love to know what the low threshold is for getting himself replaced based on performance because it doesn’t seem there’s any accountability whatsoever for the QB. It seems more likely they’ll just replace the coaching staff, players around him, water boys, food vendors and parking lot attendants before assigning any blame to Jones
This was a diversion to try to get the Vikings to draft ahead of us to get a QB. We wanted them to believe if we couldn’t get Mate, we wanted JJ. This increases the chances to get Nabers or MHjr. I like Odunze but he was the worst fit for this offense. Nabers is the best fit.
The critics of the pick(no QB) do not consider the possibility Jones could excel with these playmakers and some protection. If he does excel, I suspect many think that would be terrible because the Giants might start to believe even more in Jones.
I understand the issue.
Excited to see what happens.
I think you're 100% correct. I never bought the hype of a trade up. It's been obvious to me for a while, that JS and BD like DJ and want to give him a surrounding cast. They were not ready to ditch him on the basis of 5 games with all those injuries on the OL.
Fuck that shit.
They had a chance to roll the dice and reset everything with JJM and instead opted to be chickenshits and will drown with DJ.
Good riddance to the lot.
The critics of the pick(no QB) do not consider the possibility Jones could excel with these playmakers and some protection. If he does excel, I suspect many think that would be terrible because the Giants might start to believe even more in Jones.
There's no reason to consider the possibility that Jones will even, as he has never excelled going back to his days at Duke.
The problem is the Giants are run by people who consider throwing 15 TDs in a remedial 21.5 PPG offense "excelling".
If the Giants win 8 games and Jones is healthy I have no doubts that will be taken as a success and he'll be restructured.
I don't think Schoen/Daboll view Jones as the long term franchise QB. His contract was on the short side for QB's with an out after year 2. They're likely viewing him as a bridge while they search for their Josh Allen which I could see them viewing Maye as over McCarthy.
Time may run out on them, unless Mara has made them some assurances sticking with Jones is a gamble, he's a coach killer. But I do think they made an attempt to trade up for Maye.
Its not faking an offer, just low-balling NE.
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I'd love to know more about the evaluation process that determined Maye was so much better than the other 3 that he was worth trading up for, and the other 3 weren't worth drafting at 6.
We have battled on a lot of things in the past. I think we'll always have some fundamental differences. However, I couldn't agree more about this draft. And Schoen and Daboll really sapped the energy out of me as far as next season is concerned. Whatever they had done prior to last Thursday, they could have simply chosen a different path and made right a lot of wrongs.
It's obvious here that the Giants pursued the only option they knew was "attainable but unattainable". There couldn't be rumors about Chicago and Washington because those would be too hard to sell. New England seemed more open for a trade, but not really when you think about it. Their need for a QB plus Mayo's direct comments at his intro presser all seemed to indicate New England was taking their QB at that spot.
I wasn't sold on any 1 QB at any 1 spot, but the board broke the right way for them for Penix or McCarthy or perhaps a slight trade down to pick up an asset or 2 and grab a QB around 10ish. Hell, at this point, Pratt in the 5th round would give us something to chew on for training camp.
The QB room has gotten worse this offseason if you can actually imagine that, considering where it was in December.
which team/slot would have traded with us to go down? and why. this seems to be the forgetten factor, because the eagles move and trade with all 32 teams. but it doesnt seem like we have many available partners. and if the solution is to overpay to get it done, is that a good solution?
Their offer was fair. NE simply didn't want to trade. They would have been idiots to do so. The first rule of drafting is that you don't trade down if you need a QB and can take one at your pick. You reject all trade offers and make the pick.
But the fact that the Giants made that offer proves they are done with Jones. Whether that is because of performance or injury reasons, or likely both, is irrelevant. Jones would need to stay healthy and have a fantastic season to be on the Giants by this time next year. And if he does then he will be cut in 2026 when the dead cap hit for doing so will only be $11M IIRC. In either case, Jones is now at best a "bridge starter" for a year or two at most.
I would have taken JJM at #6, but the Giants obviously had Nabers in a higher tier, which is fine. Several teams also apparently tried to trade up to #5 or #6 to take Nabers.
I heard they offered pick 6, 2025 1st at the max, then I think it was Vachiano who said they offered both first and maybe more. I never saw anything about a substantial offer.
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The critics of the pick(no QB) do not consider the possibility Jones could excel with these playmakers and some protection. If he does excel, I suspect many think that would be terrible because the Giants might start to believe even more in Jones.
There's no reason to consider the possibility that Jones will even, as he has never excelled going back to his days at Duke.
The problem is the Giants are run by people who consider throwing 15 TDs in a remedial 21.5 PPG offense "excelling".
If the Giants win 8 games and Jones is healthy I have no doubts that will be taken as a success and he'll be restructured.
Jones has proven the ability to complete a high percentage of short passes while limiting turnovers. Crosses and slants.
Nabers is absolutely going to take a few to the house, he is that good.
You of all people understand what happens next.
The defense MUST compensate.
Robinson and Tracy are similarly explosive. Go back and review what Wandale did in the SEC. Don’t give Tracy a sliver of space. Perfect fit for this offense and Jones. Who covers Hyatt and Johnson. We have players with elite explosive scores at every position on offense.
If we Protect Jones a little bit and he stays healthy he will produce.
If he doesn’t stay healthy Lock will look good too.
I wanted McCarthy, but understand what happened.
I’m risk averse and Jones has exceeded my threshold there.
I suspect the Giants know more about the medicals.
How’s this, even if Jones wins a playoff game I would still draft a QB in the first round next year. Health risk is still present.
This offense is designed to get the ball into the hands of playmakers that can produce YAC.
We do have that now, you have to be able to admit the difference.
This was a diversion to try to get the Vikings to draft ahead of us to get a QB. We wanted them to believe if we couldn’t get Mate, we wanted JJ. This increases the chances to get Nabers or MHjr. I like Odunze but he was the worst fit for this offense. Nabers is the best fit.
The critics of the pick(no QB) do not consider the possibility Jones could excel with these playmakers and some protection. If he does excel, I suspect many think that would be terrible because the Giants might start to believe even more in Jones.
I understand the issue.
Excited to see what happens.
IMO oyu are just in denial.
What mostly likely will happen again is that DJ will play poorly or get hurt. Many on here will scream for the GM and/or Coach to be fired because they should have known.
Posters like you that are all-in on Jones will make the same tired excuses and end it with "you couldn't have known . . "
When in fact many "did know" and are not excited to see yet another year of lousy football filled with excuses that some of you keep throwing out year-over-year.
We diverge here.
I don’t assume Mara intervened or question the scouting ability of the people in the building because it doesn’t conform to my beliefs.
I ask.
What don’t I know?
See the difference?
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NE fucking desperately needs a QB, we never got close to the asking price.
This was a diversion to try to get the Vikings to draft ahead of us to get a QB. We wanted them to believe if we couldn’t get Mate, we wanted JJ. This increases the chances to get Nabers or MHjr. I like Odunze but he was the worst fit for this offense. Nabers is the best fit.
The critics of the pick(no QB) do not consider the possibility Jones could excel with these playmakers and some protection. If he does excel, I suspect many think that would be terrible because the Giants might start to believe even more in Jones.
I understand the issue.
Excited to see what happens.
IMO oyu are just in denial.
What mostly likely will happen again is that DJ will play poorly or get hurt. Many on here will scream for the GM and/or Coach to be fired because they should have known.
Posters like you that are all-in on Jones will make the same tired excuses and end it with "you couldn't have known . . "
When in fact many "did know" and are not excited to see yet another year of lousy football filled with excuses that some of you keep throwing out year-over-year.
Wouldn’t they know Jones sucks? Not saying he is great, I am saying he can produce in an offense designed to be run with player that excel in YAC now that he will get some YAC. The Giants have been missing YAC, probably DJ and not the roster, but MAYBE, a bunch of YAC players in an offense designed to have those players, Jones might do well.
CRAZEEE
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In comment 16502962 Thegratefulhead said:
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The critics of the pick(no QB) do not consider the possibility Jones could excel with these playmakers and some protection. If he does excel, I suspect many think that would be terrible because the Giants might start to believe even more in Jones.
There's no reason to consider the possibility that Jones will even, as he has never excelled going back to his days at Duke.
The problem is the Giants are run by people who consider throwing 15 TDs in a remedial 21.5 PPG offense "excelling".
If the Giants win 8 games and Jones is healthy I have no doubts that will be taken as a success and he'll be restructured.
I’ll give you a possibility that doesn’t stretch reason too far.
Jones has proven the ability to complete a high percentage of short passes while limiting turnovers. Crosses and slants.
Nabers is absolutely going to take a few to the house, he is that good.
You of all people understand what happens next.
The defense MUST compensate.
Robinson and Tracy are similarly explosive. Go back and review what Wandale did in the SEC. Don’t give Tracy a sliver of space. Perfect fit for this offense and Jones. Who covers Hyatt and Johnson. We have players with elite explosive scores at every position on offense.
If we Protect Jones a little bit and he stays healthy he will produce.
If he doesn’t stay healthy Lock will look good too.
I wanted McCarthy, but understand what happened.
I’m risk averse and Jones has exceeded my threshold there.
I suspect the Giants know more about the medicals.
How’s this, even if Jones wins a playoff game I would still draft a QB in the first round next year. Health risk is still present.
This offense is designed to get the ball into the hands of playmakers that can produce YAC.
We do have that now, you have to be able to admit the difference.
You simply cannot compete for a Super Bowl implementing the strategy you outline with Daniel Jones. You might fluke into the playoffs - again - and then he will get crushed no later than the 2nd round. Why waste time. It is better to move onto any alternative that offers hope for a Super Bowl run.
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The defense MUST compensate.
This offense is designed to get the ball into the hands of playmakers that can produce YAC.
We do have that now, you have to be able to admit the difference.
This is all classic fantasy football. The idea is to eventually be a Super Bowl Contender. Getting YAC on slants to The House vs Carolina Panthers is a lot different than getting YAC TD Slants vs San Fran.
What you aren't understanding is that they will get enough YAC Slant TD's vs the crummy teams so they can win 7-8 games maybe.
But what you're failing to understand is that that is the ceiling. SO while you can brag maybe that Jones did better than his other years - the mediocrity that you so much enjoy keeps the Giants away from an Elite QB. Yet you can brag about YAC and kep pretending all is good.
While I'm not disgusted because I love football - just hopeful that the draft picks and FA pickups hit with more impact and frequency.
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Mike nails it.
I imagine 2/3 of the league would replace their QB if they found themselves in spitting distance of getting a top 3 prospect, for the talent and economics.
Trying to get Maye is absolutely not a
vote of no confidence in Jones. It was an opportunity of circumstance.
+1 Had to look into a trade options if you have a conviction on a QB, but it wass never going to ANY QB like BBI thinks. Replace him at all cost smh. BBI has failed to realize their views of DJ is not in alignment with owner, GM and coach.
You dont sign extend a QB to that contract if you didnt believe in him.
Kirk Cousins says "hold my beer"
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faking trying to trade for Maye. Its more than likely we called the Patriots, made the offer and just got "we're picking Maye unless we get your whole draft" and things stopped there.
I don't think Schoen/Daboll view Jones as the long term franchise QB. His contract was on the short side for QB's with an out after year 2. They're likely viewing him as a bridge while they search for their Josh Allen which I could see them viewing Maye as over McCarthy.
Time may run out on them, unless Mara has made them some assurances sticking with Jones is a gamble, he's a coach killer. But I do think they made an attempt to trade up for Maye.
Its not faking an offer, just low-balling NE.
This. Make them an offer easy to refuse and then make a big fuss about "hey we tried..."
Maybe they view him as a developmental diamond in the rough. But that feels like a strange project when your starter has durability issues and an egg might cost your job.
I think they view him as no threat to DJ. Mara has spoken - DJ will be the starter.
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Why didn’t the Giants offer more for Maye or draft a QB if it is so obvious Jones sucks?
Wouldn’t they know Jones sucks? Not saying he is great, I am saying he can produce in an offense designed to be run with player that excel in YAC now that he will get some YAC. The Giants have been missing YAC, probably DJ and not the roster, but MAYBE, a bunch of YAC players in an offense designed to have those players, Jones might do well.
CRAZEEE
Why did Dave G draft Barkley at 2? Why did he never fix the OL which he was known to do? But he kept flaunting his resume -- in the same way you are trying to flaunt the Giants brass (resume) for not taking the QB.
Because they are more than likely wrong. Thats why they get fired. Because they were stupid after 2022 by overpaying DJ - that is supposed to mean they should keep being stupid if those of us that know he should not be playing with the Giants as the starter is now playing?
You will admit if DJ gets hurt or does poorly yet again that the Giants FO is moronic when it comes to QB's, right?
I
Don't you just hate it when logic and data get in the way of an obsessive love affair?
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In comment 16502855 Biteymax22 said:
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faking trying to trade for Maye. Its more than likely we called the Patriots, made the offer and just got "we're picking Maye unless we get your whole draft" and things stopped there.
I don't think Schoen/Daboll view Jones as the long term franchise QB. His contract was on the short side for QB's with an out after year 2. They're likely viewing him as a bridge while they search for their Josh Allen which I could see them viewing Maye as over McCarthy.
Time may run out on them, unless Mara has made them some assurances sticking with Jones is a gamble, he's a coach killer. But I do think they made an attempt to trade up for Maye.
Its not faking an offer, just low-balling NE.
This. Make them an offer easy to refuse and then make a big fuss about "hey we tried..."
NOBODY knows the Giants actual offer despite various reports assuming such. The point is, the Patriots weren't moving no matter what was offered.
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In comment 16502972 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16502962 Thegratefulhead said:
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The critics of the pick(no QB) do not consider the possibility Jones could excel with these playmakers and some protection. If he does excel, I suspect many think that would be terrible because the Giants might start to believe even more in Jones.
There's no reason to consider the possibility that Jones will even, as he has never excelled going back to his days at Duke.
The problem is the Giants are run by people who consider throwing 15 TDs in a remedial 21.5 PPG offense "excelling".
If the Giants win 8 games and Jones is healthy I have no doubts that will be taken as a success and he'll be restructured.
I’ll give you a possibility that doesn’t stretch reason too far.
Jones has proven the ability to complete a high percentage of short passes while limiting turnovers. Crosses and slants.
Nabers is absolutely going to take a few to the house, he is that good.
You of all people understand what happens next.
The defense MUST compensate.
Robinson and Tracy are similarly explosive. Go back and review what Wandale did in the SEC. Don’t give Tracy a sliver of space. Perfect fit for this offense and Jones. Who covers Hyatt and Johnson. We have players with elite explosive scores at every position on offense.
If we Protect Jones a little bit and he stays healthy he will produce.
If he doesn’t stay healthy Lock will look good too.
I wanted McCarthy, but understand what happened.
I’m risk averse and Jones has exceeded my threshold there.
I suspect the Giants know more about the medicals.
How’s this, even if Jones wins a playoff game I would still draft a QB in the first round next year. Health risk is still present.
This offense is designed to get the ball into the hands of playmakers that can produce YAC.
We do have that now, you have to be able to admit the difference.
You simply cannot compete for a Super Bowl implementing the strategy you outline with Daniel Jones. You might fluke into the playoffs - again - and then he will get crushed no later than the 2nd round. Why waste time. It is better to move onto any alternative that offers hope for a Super Bowl run.
So what are the chances he does that. I have no way of knowing because of all the intangibles. But the GM and coach have seen enough of the QB and realize that he can't be relied on.
Why is this so hard for people to see. They spent hundreds of hours evaluating QB's all over the country. They know what they have to do. They made a serious offer, unfortunately the Pats ownership pulled out of the verbally agreed upon deal the day of the draft.
I also think that Daboll likes Lock's arm talent more than DJ's. He can be our bridge similar to Kerry Collins. That looks to be Plan B.
Not risking it for a QB they don't love is exactly what they should have done. Daboll isn't perfect, but if he didn't want McCarthy, then I don't want McCarthy.
Look at this photo. You think Daboll looks like he wishes the pick was McCarthy here? I don't. Does Schoen look like he's disgruntled that management killed his plan to draft McCarthy? No.
Some of you are so blinded by "we have to make a change at QB!" that you don't realize that you're following a lot of the same logic steps that ended up with Daniel Jones at 6 overall in the first place.
A QB who isn't bereft of talent might just produce more when better talent & coaching is put around him.
I'm rooting for DJ to succeed. Right now that would be the ideal scenario if we are hoping for a winning season next year
Not risking it for a QB they don't love is exactly what they should have done. Daboll isn't perfect, but if he didn't want McCarthy, then I don't want McCarthy.
Look at this photo. You think Daboll looks like he wishes the pick was McCarthy here? I don't. Does Schoen look like he's disgruntled that management killed his plan to draft McCarthy? No.
Some of you are so blinded by "we have to make a change at QB!" that you don't realize that you're following a lot of the same logic steps that ended up with Daniel Jones at 6 overall in the first place.
JonC said from the beginning - Maye or Nabers. This isn't 2021 where Gettleman was visibly disgruntled.
Not risking it for a QB they don't love is exactly what they should have done. Daboll isn't perfect, but if he didn't want McCarthy, then I don't want McCarthy.
Look at this photo. You think Daboll looks like he wishes the pick was McCarthy here? I don't. Does Schoen look like he's disgruntled that management killed his plan to draft McCarthy? No.
Some of you are so blinded by "we have to make a change at QB!" that you don't realize that you're following a lot of the same logic steps that ended up with Daniel Jones at 6 overall in the first place.
There's no conspiracy. I agree with their decision to not trade a king's ransom for Maye and I understand their decision to draft Nabers. It wasn't the time or place to draft a QB. They owe DJ too much and they signed him to the deal. Its quite simple, there's no conspiracy. The NYG media guys are talking about it like we did everything we could to trade for Maye, but that's simply not true and it seems to many folks like they never really wanted a QB in the draft. Yes they showed interest and did their due diligence (of course they would scout all players around their draft range, they even had Turner in after trading for Burns). It's a simple, rational approach and I understand it. Sy is the first one that mentioned this and at first I was skeptical, but I've thought about it more and I think he was right. There's no conspiracy, they weren't intentionally faking it, but now the NYG beats are gobbling it up like we went all out to trade for Maye when that's simply not true. We offered 2025 1st and pick 6, maybe 2025 3rd too, but no more than that.
So what are the chances he does that. I have no way of knowing because of all the intangibles. But the GM and coach have seen enough of the QB and realize that he can't be relied on.
Why is this so hard for people to see.
Because you might not be seeing the complete picture?
Why didn't thye see they needed a QB after 2022 instead of a big overpay therby waste 2 years?
And suppose people that wanted a QB see this as further evidence that maybe JS is incompetent? - Especially is DJ really sucks as well as The Gintns while one of the 3 QB's they passed on does very well?
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... the butthurt people try to explain away because the GM and coach of a team don't agree with their assessments. "It's the meddling owner!" "It's the injury Clause!" "This FO is gone after next season!" lol
Don't you just hate it when logic and data get in the way of an obsessive love affair?
I liked JJM a lot and wanted us to draft him, but I clearly see the line of thinking and I now realize I was wrong in thinking there was much of a chance we would go QB a year after signing DJ to a deal with close to 100 million guaranteed. It just wasn't going to happen. Sure if NE accepted the low ball offer of pick 6 and 2025 1st they would have taken Maye. They knew that was extremely unlikely though. Cest la vie, we got one of the highest rated players in the draft at a position of extreme value and need. No complaints
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unless DJ plays well, gets the Giants into the playoffs he's gone. They will take the cap hit and move on.
So what are the chances he does that. I have no way of knowing because of all the intangibles. But the GM and coach have seen enough of the QB and realize that he can't be relied on.
Why is this so hard for people to see.
Because you might not be seeing the complete picture?
Why didn't thye see they needed a QB after 2022 instead of a big overpay therby waste 2 years?
And suppose people that wanted a QB see this as further evidence that maybe JS is incompetent? - Especially is DJ really sucks as well as The Gintns while one of the 3 QB's they passed on does very well?
The two presominant perspectives on this can be true at once and that's usually how things go, the truth is somewhere in the middle of two polarized perspectives and that truth contains parts of both extremes. In this case, Mara could have strongly opined about signing DJ long term and not franchise tagging him while Schoen agreed. Thus, it wasn't all on Schoen and it wasn't a Mr Burns like puppet master owner.
Not risking it for a QB they don't love is exactly what they should have done. Daboll isn't perfect, but if he didn't want McCarthy, then I don't want McCarthy.
Look at this photo. You think Daboll looks like he wishes the pick was McCarthy here? I don't. Does Schoen look like he's disgruntled that management killed his plan to draft McCarthy? No.
Some of you are so blinded by "we have to make a change at QB!" that you don't realize that you're following a lot of the same logic steps that ended up with Daniel Jones at 6 overall in the first place.
For the millionth time, selecting Jones at 6 wasn’t the end of the world. Trotting him out for a 6th season is where most have the major issue. Could drafting a QB fail? Sure. But it doesn’t have to lead to a decade of suckitude if you’re smart enough to recognize that it’s not going to work and move on before you hand him a completely asinine contract extension
Who here is enraged about us not taking a QB besides Terps? I see no one enraged.
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Trying to trade up is exactly what they should have done.
Not risking it for a QB they don't love is exactly what they should have done. Daboll isn't perfect, but if he didn't want McCarthy, then I don't want McCarthy.
Look at this photo. You think Daboll looks like he wishes the pick was McCarthy here? I don't. Does Schoen look like he's disgruntled that management killed his plan to draft McCarthy? No.
Some of you are so blinded by "we have to make a change at QB!" that you don't realize that you're following a lot of the same logic steps that ended up with Daniel Jones at 6 overall in the first place.
For the millionth time, selecting Jones at 6 wasn’t the end of the world. Trotting him out for a 6th season is where most have the major issue. Could drafting a QB fail? Sure. But it doesn’t have to lead to a decade of suckitude if you’re smart enough to recognize that it’s not going to work and move on before you hand him a completely asinine contract extension
The assertion that rolling the dice on mid qb prospects in the top 10 is not a big risk with the potential to ruin the team for years is either a dishonest argument or a “qb or bust” fan so far down the rabbit hole that I am half expecting them to set themselves on fire outside the stadium.
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Trying to trade up is exactly what they should have done.
Not risking it for a QB they don't love is exactly what they should have done. Daboll isn't perfect, but if he didn't want McCarthy, then I don't want McCarthy.
Look at this photo. You think Daboll looks like he wishes the pick was McCarthy here? I don't. Does Schoen look like he's disgruntled that management killed his plan to draft McCarthy? No.
Some of you are so blinded by "we have to make a change at QB!" that you don't realize that you're following a lot of the same logic steps that ended up with Daniel Jones at 6 overall in the first place.
For the millionth time, selecting Jones at 6 wasn’t the end of the world. Trotting him out for a 6th season is where most have the major issue. Could drafting a QB fail? Sure. But it doesn’t have to lead to a decade of suckitude if you’re smart enough to recognize that it’s not going to work and move on before you hand him a completely asinine contract extension
If anything, Schoen might be a bit too influencable. I won't say he's a push over, but maybe he could grow to be more assertive. That would be my only complaint about him. He should have had the gusto to make a better decision about Saquon and Jones even with Mara strongly opining that he wanted to keep them both and wanted to sign DJ long term.
Other than that, I like the direction toward which the roster is being built. I have faith we will get a good rookie QB here and actually have a good roster and coaching structure in place for him to thrive.
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seemingly most enraged by the current doom loop the Giants are in as a result of overdrafting a mediocre quarterback prospect are also the fans most enraged about the Giants not turning around and making that same exact mistake again. The crying over these 4 mid qb prospects who are all more likely to be terrible than good is really something to behold.
Who here is enraged about us not taking a QB besides Terps? I see no one enraged.
I am reading a lot of angry tone on this thread, especially from the conspiracy theorists. Perhaps you read it differently.
A QB who isn't bereft of talent might just produce more when better talent & coaching is put around him.
I'm rooting for DJ to succeed. Right now that would be the ideal scenario if we are hoping for a winning season next year
I get it "you are hoping." I hope you are right.
But what if DJ has another bad year and the team stinks while one of the QB's they passed (or Fields) does very well? Wouldn't you agree that would show a certain level of incompetency that should probably lead to being fired?
Your post is of hope without clarity with the looming threat of the worst thing of all; "mediocrity." .
We have to operate with the hand we're given. When Giants Management loves a player, they stick with him no matter what.
Had they drafted JJM, the Giants are not going to have a revolution in thinking and say 'hey this isn't working out in 3 years, we gotta move on'. This is not an ownership that believes it makes mistakes quickly and it won't be as long as John is running things.
-and-
NFW more fans wanted Nabers over a ne QB.
I know Bobby Skinner and Just Penik did and I post in another board where that was the case. You have to remember that BBI is a biased sample. A certain type of poster posts here and it may not be representative of all or most Giants fans.
“Mid QB prospects” LOL
3 guys who went 8, 10 and 12 respectively and were pretty much projected to go there throughout the entire draft process. That is what they’re worth until proven otherwise. So in other words, you’re wrong.
You've seen to have an opinion of the 3 QB's they coud have had- that they are all mediocre? Otherwise, in whose opinion are they mediocre?
So, what if YOU and the FO are wrong that at least 1 of the QB's were not mediocre but very good while the Giants suffer another awful year? You would agree then that that FO is incompetent, correct?
I still think they got cold feet about not getting JJM after a trade down and that's what prevented them from accepting an offer from Minnesota, and we didn't offer enough to compensate for a potential need to trade up for JJM after trading down with us. If JJM ends up better than Maye, they are going to really regret all this.
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In comment 16503025 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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Trying to trade up is exactly what they should have done.
Not risking it for a QB they don't love is exactly what they should have done. Daboll isn't perfect, but if he didn't want McCarthy, then I don't want McCarthy.
Look at this photo. You think Daboll looks like he wishes the pick was McCarthy here? I don't. Does Schoen look like he's disgruntled that management killed his plan to draft McCarthy? No.
Some of you are so blinded by "we have to make a change at QB!" that you don't realize that you're following a lot of the same logic steps that ended up with Daniel Jones at 6 overall in the first place.
For the millionth time, selecting Jones at 6 wasn’t the end of the world. Trotting him out for a 6th season is where most have the major issue. Could drafting a QB fail? Sure. But it doesn’t have to lead to a decade of suckitude if you’re smart enough to recognize that it’s not going to work and move on before you hand him a completely asinine contract extension
The assertion that rolling the dice on mid qb prospects in the top 10 is not a big risk with the potential to ruin the team for years is either a dishonest argument or a “qb or bust” fan so far down the rabbit hole that I am half expecting them to set themselves on fire outside the stadium.
Of course it’s a risk. But it’s no more of a risk than drafting any other position in the top 10 and have them bust. For some reason some of you assclowns think that drafting a bust QB sets you back a decade while you can easily shrug off any other position busting. The Giants have been picking in the top 10 for a decade. How’s that working out? Teams recover from failed picks all the time. It happens every single year. But not many teams sign that failed pick to an absolutely mind boggling contract extension. THAT is the problem
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But I think we can all agree he has potentially the best WR he has ever had in Nabers the moment the kid steps on the field and also maybe the best OL coach coaching the OL since Pat Flaherty. Unless of course we think Mike Solari , Hal Hunter Columbo, Gugliemo etc. were legitimate NFL coaches.
A QB who isn't bereft of talent might just produce more when better talent & coaching is put around him.
I'm rooting for DJ to succeed. Right now that would be the ideal scenario if we are hoping for a winning season next year
I get it "you are hoping." I hope you are right.
But what if DJ has another bad year and the team stinks while one of the QB's they passed (or Fields) does very well? Wouldn't you agree that would show a certain level of incompetency that should probably lead to being fired?
Your post is of hope without clarity with the looming threat of the worst thing of all; "mediocrity." .
I don't think this would be fair until we see how the vision unfolds. Who's to say JJM or Nix or Penix along with our 2025 1st round pick would be better than Nabers and a 1st round QB in 2025? We gotta give then a chance to play this out. If it's not fixed by next year, then yeah they should be shown the door.
Not risking it for a QB they don't love is exactly what they should have done. Daboll isn't perfect, but if he didn't want McCarthy, then I don't want McCarthy.
Look at this photo. You think Daboll looks like he wishes the pick was McCarthy here? I don't. Does Schoen look like he's disgruntled that management killed his plan to draft McCarthy? No.
Some of you are so blinded by "we have to make a change at QB!" that you don't realize that you're following a lot of the same logic steps that ended up with Daniel Jones at 6 overall in the first place.
I'm not sure I follow your position. Are you saying the decision to draft Nabers should be accepted without dispute?
Because we have five years of data/performance from the incumbent QB that suggests we are in a crisis at the position.
And last Thursday we were sitting in the middle of the lottery of a QB rich draft, and passed on the next three QB that went #8, #10 and #12. And two of those selections went to Sean Payton and Kevin O'Connell. Coaches who seems to be very good as coaching and developing QBs.
In my interpretation, the decision to draft Nabers was a declaration by the Schoen and Daboll that they thought Jones was a better QB than Nix. Penix and JMac.
You might be okay with that. But I found that very troublesome.
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Trying to trade up is exactly what they should have done.
Not risking it for a QB they don't love is exactly what they should have done. Daboll isn't perfect, but if he didn't want McCarthy, then I don't want McCarthy.
Look at this photo. You think Daboll looks like he wishes the pick was McCarthy here? I don't. Does Schoen look like he's disgruntled that management killed his plan to draft McCarthy? No.
Some of you are so blinded by "we have to make a change at QB!" that you don't realize that you're following a lot of the same logic steps that ended up with Daniel Jones at 6 overall in the first place.
I'm not sure I follow your position. Are you saying the decision to draft Nabers should be accepted without dispute?
Because we have five years of data/performance from the incumbent QB that suggests we are in a crisis at the position.
And last Thursday we were sitting in the middle of the lottery of a QB rich draft, and passed on the next three QB that went #8, #10 and #12. And two of those selections went to Sean Payton and Kevin O'Connell. Coaches who seems to be very good as coaching and developing QBs.
In my interpretation, the decision to draft Nabers was a declaration by the Schoen and Daboll that they thought Jones was a better QB than Nix. Penix and JMac.
You might be okay with that. But I found that very troublesome.
It's not that simple you have to account for Nabers being one of the top rated players in the draft and the stupid contract they gave DJ just last year too.
For gods sake, can everyone take a step back and realize, as fans, we can’t do much other than order the plates that are served?
We aren’t even qualified to be the dish washer when it comes to this stuff. Let alone be in charge of cooking (Daboll) or ordering ingredients (Schoen).
The hyperbolic takes are astounding. We may not like it. But we still come back to order the special.
Fuck
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In comment 16503029 Stars_and_stripes said:
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But I think we can all agree he has potentially the best WR he has ever had in Nabers the moment the kid steps on the field and also maybe the best OL coach coaching the OL since Pat Flaherty. Unless of course we think Mike Solari , Hal Hunter Columbo, Gugliemo etc. were legitimate NFL coaches.
A QB who isn't bereft of talent might just produce more when better talent & coaching is put around him.
I'm rooting for DJ to succeed. Right now that would be the ideal scenario if we are hoping for a winning season next year
I get it "you are hoping." I hope you are right.
But what if DJ has another bad year and the team stinks while one of the QB's they passed (or Fields) does very well? Wouldn't you agree that would show a certain level of incompetency that should probably lead to being fired?
Your post is of hope without clarity with the looming threat of the worst thing of all; "mediocrity." .
I don't think this would be fair until we see how the vision unfolds. Who's to say JJM or Nix or Penix along with our 2025 1st round pick would be better than Nabers and a 1st round QB in 2025? We gotta give then a chance to play this out. If it's not fixed by next year, then yeah they should be shown the door.
Why are you comparing them as to who is "better" when we know QB's are more valuable even if they aren't "better?" Brock Purdy is probably going to get $40-$50M? Is he better than AJ Brown? He'll be higher paid than near all the WR's if not all, right?
If you are always just going to compare "who is better" then unless you are taking a QB with the #1 or 2pcik etc. you will never select one because you will always be jumped.
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In comment 16503055 giantstock said:
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In comment 16503029 Stars_and_stripes said:
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But I think we can all agree he has potentially the best WR he has ever had in Nabers the moment the kid steps on the field and also maybe the best OL coach coaching the OL since Pat Flaherty. Unless of course we think Mike Solari , Hal Hunter Columbo, Gugliemo etc. were legitimate NFL coaches.
A QB who isn't bereft of talent might just produce more when better talent & coaching is put around him.
I'm rooting for DJ to succeed. Right now that would be the ideal scenario if we are hoping for a winning season next year
I get it "you are hoping." I hope you are right.
But what if DJ has another bad year and the team stinks while one of the QB's they passed (or Fields) does very well? Wouldn't you agree that would show a certain level of incompetency that should probably lead to being fired?
Your post is of hope without clarity with the looming threat of the worst thing of all; "mediocrity." .
I don't think this would be fair until we see how the vision unfolds. Who's to say JJM or Nix or Penix along with our 2025 1st round pick would be better than Nabers and a 1st round QB in 2025? We gotta give then a chance to play this out. If it's not fixed by next year, then yeah they should be shown the door.
Why are you comparing them as to who is "better" when we know QB's are more valuable even if they aren't "better?" Brock Purdy is probably going to get $40-$50M? Is he better than AJ Brown? He'll be higher paid than near all the WR's if not all, right?
If you are always just going to compare "who is better" then unless you are taking a QB with the #1 or 2pcik etc. you will never select one because you will always be jumped.
I'm saying we have to see how 2025 draft goes to properly evaluate this. The combination of Nabers and a 2025 QB in rd1 could be much better than JJM/Penix/Nix plus our rd1 pick in 2025.
It's not that simple you have to account for Nabers being one of the top rated players in the draft and the stupid contract they gave DJ just last year too.
I disagree. I see it in very simple terms.
Schoen, Daboll et al concluded that:
Jones + Nabers were better for the team than McCarthy/Penix/Nix + second round WR.
Or, differently said, a mediocre QB going into his 6th year plus a dynamic WR made the team better than a younger, cheaper, more talented QB prospect plus a very good day-two WR prospect.
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It's not that simple you have to account for Nabers being one of the top rated players in the draft and the stupid contract they gave DJ just last year too.
I disagree. I see it in very simple terms.
Schoen, Daboll et al concluded that:
Jones + Nabers were better for the team than McCarthy/Penix/Nix + second round WR.
Or, differently said, a mediocre QB going into his 6th year plus a dynamic WR made the team better than a younger, cheaper, more talented QB prospect plus a very good day-two WR prospect.
I think the contract they gave DJ just last year weighed heavily into the formula.
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Why are you comparing them as to who is "better" when we know QB's are more valuable even if they aren't "better?" Brock Purdy is probably going to get $40-$50M? Is he better than AJ Brown? He'll be higher paid than near all the WR's if not all, right?
If you are always just going to compare "who is better" then unless you are taking a QB with the #1 or 2pcik etc. you will never select one because you will always be jumped.
I'm saying we have to see how 2025 draft goes to properly evaluate this. The combination of Nabers and a 2025 QB in rd1 could be much better than JJM/Penix/Nix plus our rd1 pick in 2025.
And you are going to say the same thing again next year. The same excuse - let's wait until 2026.
Look at it from the POV for those that thought the QB should have been taken - example SY. He had Nabers rated higher but he said he would've taken the QB.
SO, for anyone that agrees with SY for example that felt JJM should have been taken - if JJM shows to be very god next year while The Giants finish again 3rd or 4th and are mediocre at best in which Joens only shows mediocrity at best, you wouldn't be under the belief that the FO is incompetent?
You just passed on a Franchise QB for a QB your paying huge bucks to that is only going to take you to mediocrity or worse, and you would have confidence in this front office?
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In comment 16503101 giantstock said:
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Why are you comparing them as to who is "better" when we know QB's are more valuable even if they aren't "better?" Brock Purdy is probably going to get $40-$50M? Is he better than AJ Brown? He'll be higher paid than near all the WR's if not all, right?
If you are always just going to compare "who is better" then unless you are taking a QB with the #1 or 2pcik etc. you will never select one because you will always be jumped.
I'm saying we have to see how 2025 draft goes to properly evaluate this. The combination of Nabers and a 2025 QB in rd1 could be much better than JJM/Penix/Nix plus our rd1 pick in 2025.
And you are going to say the same thing again next year. The same excuse - let's wait until 2026.
Look at it from the POV for those that thought the QB should have been taken - example SY. He had Nabers rated higher but he said he would've taken the QB.
SO, for anyone that agrees with SY for example that felt JJM should have been taken - if JJM shows to be very god next year while The Giants finish again 3rd or 4th and are mediocre at best in which Joens only shows mediocrity at best, you wouldn't be under the belief that the FO is incompetent?
You just passed on a Franchise QB for a QB your paying huge bucks to that is only going to take you to mediocrity or worse, and you would have confidence in this front office?
I was praying they would take JJM, I was a big fan of his before Sy or any pundits had him ahead of Maye actually. I was very vocal about this :).
Nevertheless, I understand the strategy due to the mistake of giving DJ a huge contract last year and Nabers being a top of the big board prospect with a ceiling as high as you'll ever find in the draft. Thus, I'm willing to let it play out and see where we are at for the 2025 season. I'm much happier with this than trading the farm for Maye at least.
Basically he has to play 14+ games, 190 yards/game, .9 TDs/game, and less than ~11 INTs. As long as we win 7 games, he's back for 25.
We're already paying him $25 M regardless of whether he's on the team. And there's not going to be an easy way to get a top prospect. He just needs to be better than the absolute worst QBs in the league
Basically he has to play 14+ games, 190 yards/game, .9 TDs/game, and less than ~11 INTs. As long as we win 7 games, he's back for 25.
We're already paying him $25 M regardless of whether he's on the team. And there's not going to be an easy way to get a top prospect. He just needs to be better than the absolute worst QBs in the league
I can't believe this is how it will go down. The Giants will lose New York, especially if the Jets are good.
And you are going to say the same thing again next year. The same excuse - let's wait until 2026.
Look at it from the POV for those that thought the QB should have been taken - example SY. He had Nabers rated higher but he said he would've taken the QB.
SO, for anyone that agrees with SY for example that felt JJM should have been taken - if JJM shows to be very god next year while The Giants finish again 3rd or 4th and are mediocre at best in which Joens only shows mediocrity at best, you wouldn't be under the belief that the FO is incompetent?
You just passed on a Franchise QB for a QB your paying huge bucks to that is only going to take you to mediocrity or worse, and you would have confidence in this front office?
I think for many it’s a case of kicking the can down the road because they are still holding out hope that Jones is the guy they thought he was. Sure, they’ll SAY that they wanted to draft a QB, but there’s always the caveat that the right one had to be available at the right price - knowing that after winning a few meaningless games that could prove to be difficult.
Many of those same people would also call you a bad fan if you weren’t fully riding the Tommy Cutlets bandwagon. What excuse would they have if the Giants held the 3rd pick?
I saw it coming then, the Giants had an “out” if they wanted to stick with Jones. “We tried to trade up but just couldn’t get it done” so go with a WR.
And it’ll happen again in 2025. Unless the season is a complete flop, they’ll end up drafting somewhere in the 8-12 range and find another excuse. They’ll restructure Jones and he’ll start Week 1 in 2025.
People can believe that the Giants REALLY want to move off Jones, but until they actually do it I won’t believe it.
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In comment 16503113 BleedBlue46 said:
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And you are going to say the same thing again next year. The same excuse - let's wait until 2026.
Look at it from the POV for those that thought the QB should have been taken - example SY. He had Nabers rated higher but he said he would've taken the QB.
SO, for anyone that agrees with SY for example that felt JJM should have been taken - if JJM shows to be very god next year while The Giants finish again 3rd or 4th and are mediocre at best in which Joens only shows mediocrity at best, you wouldn't be under the belief that the FO is incompetent?
You just passed on a Franchise QB for a QB your paying huge bucks to that is only going to take you to mediocrity or worse, and you would have confidence in this front office?
I was praying they would take JJM, I was a big fan of his before Sy or any pundits had him ahead of Maye actually. I was very vocal about this :).
Nevertheless, I understand the strategy due to the mistake of giving DJ a huge contract last year and Nabers being a top of the big board prospect with a ceiling as high as you'll ever find in the draft. Thus, I'm willing to let it play out and see where we are at for the 2025 season. I'm much happier with this than trading the farm for Maye at least.
I get it "willing to let it play out." But what else can we do? I can see for exmaple if they hit on thsi year's draft pciks and next year's - you build a tema them youtakleshots at a QB -- it coudl work. But it's always bets imo to take what you see as a good QB when you both need and have teh chance.
While me and you can say "willing to let it play out" we are not accoutnable. It is not our job to be right. Idon't wnat to see you for example banned/fired for having an opinion. But for the GM and COach, if they are worng to this level, then why shoudln't I say they dersved to be fired after this upcoming season if any of the 4-6 QB's tehy passed on were good and tehGiants are mediocre at bets but more likely still stink?
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In comment 16503139 giantstock said:
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In comment 16503113 BleedBlue46 said:
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And you are going to say the same thing again next year. The same excuse - let's wait until 2026.
Look at it from the POV for those that thought the QB should have been taken - example SY. He had Nabers rated higher but he said he would've taken the QB.
SO, for anyone that agrees with SY for example that felt JJM should have been taken - if JJM shows to be very god next year while The Giants finish again 3rd or 4th and are mediocre at best in which Joens only shows mediocrity at best, you wouldn't be under the belief that the FO is incompetent?
You just passed on a Franchise QB for a QB your paying huge bucks to that is only going to take you to mediocrity or worse, and you would have confidence in this front office?
I was praying they would take JJM, I was a big fan of his before Sy or any pundits had him ahead of Maye actually. I was very vocal about this :).
Nevertheless, I understand the strategy due to the mistake of giving DJ a huge contract last year and Nabers being a top of the big board prospect with a ceiling as high as you'll ever find in the draft. Thus, I'm willing to let it play out and see where we are at for the 2025 season. I'm much happier with this than trading the farm for Maye at least.
I get it "willing to let it play out." But what else can we do? I can see for exmaple if they hit on thsi year's draft pciks and next year's - you build a tema them youtakleshots at a QB -- it coudl work. But it's always bets imo to take what you see as a good QB when you both need and have teh chance.
While me and you can say "willing to let it play out" we are not accoutnable. It is not our job to be right. Idon't wnat to see you for example banned/fired for having an opinion. But for the GM and COach, if they are worng to this level, then why shoudln't I say they dersved to be fired after this upcoming season if any of the 4-6 QB's tehy passed on were good and tehGiants are mediocre at bets but more likely still stink?
If we are that bad, which is a real possibility, then I say we give them a shot to let the vision play out and get a qb in rd1. The worst cast scenario is going 9-8 or 8-9.
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In comment 16502962 Thegratefulhead said:
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The critics of the pick(no QB) do not consider the possibility Jones could excel with these playmakers and some protection. If he does excel, I suspect many think that would be terrible because the Giants might start to believe even more in Jones.
There's no reason to consider the possibility that Jones will even, as he has never excelled going back to his days at Duke.
The problem is the Giants are run by people who consider throwing 15 TDs in a remedial 21.5 PPG offense "excelling".
If the Giants win 8 games and Jones is healthy I have no doubts that will be taken as a success and he'll be restructured.
I’ll give you a possibility that doesn’t stretch reason too far.
Jones has proven the ability to complete a high percentage of short passes while limiting turnovers. Crosses and slants.
*Has* Jones actually shown to be good at throwing slants? Not really that I can recall.
In my interpretation, the decision to draft Nabers was a declaration by the Schoen and Daboll that they thought Jones was a better QB than Nix. Penix and JMac.
You can interpret it that way, but what if it has less to do with Jones and more to do with Nabers being an exceptional prospect, even among an outstanding, deep class of WRs?
Jones is not the future of this team. He is also not Kyle Lauletta or Tim Tebow. He is here until there's a clear cut option worth investing in at that position. Maye would have been that. They've told you that with their actions. Again, if the guy running the offense is not banging the table for these QBs, why isn't that giving anyone pause to consider their opinions? There persists this impression that there were 4-6 franchise QBs in this draft. There weren't.
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In my interpretation, the decision to draft Nabers was a declaration by the Schoen and Daboll that they thought Jones was a better QB than Nix. Penix and JMac.
You can interpret it that way, but what if it has less to do with Jones and more to do with Nabers being an exceptional prospect, even among an outstanding, deep class of WRs?
Jones is not the future of this team. He is also not Kyle Lauletta or Tim Tebow. He is here until there's a clear cut option worth investing in at that position. Maye would have been that. They've told you that with their actions. Again, if the guy running the offense is not banging the table for these QBs, why isn't that giving anyone pause to consider their opinions? There persists this impression that there were 4-6 franchise QBs in this draft. There weren't.
There also persists the notion that Maye was a better prospect than the other three, and I think it's based solely on the hope that because he's big he'll be like Josh Allen.
What I figure is that they didn't view JJM, Nix, or Penix as franchise QBs. Now, time will tell. If even one of them hits, they'll look like idiots.
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In comment 16503149 BleedBlue46 said:
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I was praying they would take JJM, I was a big fan of his before Sy or any pundits had him ahead of Maye actually. I was very vocal about this :).
Nevertheless, I understand the strategy due to the mistake of giving DJ a huge contract last year and Nabers being a top of the big board prospect with a ceiling as high as you'll ever find in the draft. Thus, I'm willing to let it play out and see where we are at for the 2025 season. I'm much happier with this than trading the farm for Maye at least.
I get it "willing to let it play out." But what else can we do? I can see for exmaple if they hit on thsi year's draft pciks and next year's - you build a tema them youtakleshots at a QB -- it coudl work. But it's always bets imo to take what you see as a good QB when you both need and have teh chance.
While me and you can say "willing to let it play out" we are not accoutnable. It is not our job to be right. Idon't wnat to see you for example banned/fired for having an opinion. But for the GM and COach, if they are worng to this level, then why shoudln't I say they dersved to be fired after this upcoming season if any of the 4-6 QB's tehy passed on were good and tehGiants are mediocre at bets but more likely still stink?
If we are that bad, which is a real possibility, then I say we give them a shot to let the vision play out and get a qb in rd1. The worst cast scenario is going 9-8 or 8-9.
But as a fan I'm stuck of having it to wait for things to play out - and if I am right which I beleive I am then 2 years have been wasted by "waiting for things to play out."
Instead of just recognizing incoomeptency.
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In comment 16503080 bw in dc said:
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In my interpretation, the decision to draft Nabers was a declaration by the Schoen and Daboll that they thought Jones was a better QB than Nix. Penix and JMac.
You can interpret it that way, but what if it has less to do with Jones and more to do with Nabers being an exceptional prospect, even among an outstanding, deep class of WRs?
Jones is not the future of this team. He is also not Kyle Lauletta or Tim Tebow. He is here until there's a clear cut option worth investing in at that position. Maye would have been that. They've told you that with their actions. Again, if the guy running the offense is not banging the table for these QBs, why isn't that giving anyone pause to consider their opinions? There persists this impression that there were 4-6 franchise QBs in this draft. There weren't.
There also persists the notion that Maye was a better prospect than the other three, and I think it's based solely on the hope that because he's big he'll be like Josh Allen.
i heard in 2018 they chose josh allen over josh rosen because he wore the bigger shoe size.
You can interpret it that way, but what if it has less to do with Jones and more to do with Nabers being an exceptional prospect, even among an outstanding, deep class of WRs?
Jones is not the future of this team. He is also not Kyle Lauletta or Tim Tebow. He is here until there's a clear cut option worth investing in at that position. Maye would have been that. They've told you that with their actions. Again, if the guy running the offense is not banging the table for these QBs, why isn't that giving anyone pause to consider their opinions? There persists this impression that there were 4-6 franchise QBs in this draft. There weren't.
I just disagree, TTH. So much of this comes directly back to Jones.
And I'm not sure we can conclude Jones isn't the future of the team.
I think it's plausible they had two plans.
Plan A was they thought Maye was so special that giving up future assets was worth it if they could pull it off.
And when they didn't execute that, they were perfectly comfortable falling back on Plan B. Plan B being they still think Jones is more 2022 version than 2023 version and they can still build a winner around him.
I don't know how many franchise QBs are in this draft yet. That still needs to play out.
But what I do know is for the first time in NFL history, six QBs were chosen out of the first twelve picks. And - again - two of the last three were selected by two very smart men developing QBs; and the third team, despite adding Kirk Cousins, felt Penix was so good they were willing to add him to their QB room.
Look, it sounds like you trust this group of football experts more than me right now and are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I just can't get there and think this draft was horribly managed.
I just disagree, TTH. So much of this comes directly back to Jones.
And I'm not sure we can conclude Jones isn't the future of the team.
I think it's plausible they had two plans.
Plan A was they thought Maye was so special that giving up future assets was worth it if they could pull it off.
And when they didn't execute that, they were perfectly comfortable falling back on Plan B. Plan B being they still think Jones is more 2022 version than 2023 version and they can still build a winner around him.
I don't know how many franchise QBs are in this draft yet. That still needs to play out.
But what I do know is for the first time in NFL history, six QBs were chosen out of the first twelve picks. And - again - two of the last three were selected by two very smart men developing QBs; and the third team, despite adding Kirk Cousins, felt Penix was so good they were willing to add him to their QB room.
Look, it sounds like you trust this group of football experts more than me right now and are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I just can't get there and think this draft was horribly managed.
im with you until the last sentence, at which point up turns down since you've spent the last 6 months arguing against JJM to me. I know you love Nabers so whether or not you feel different about Nix/Penix than JJM, I imagine you at least understand the concept that they preferred an elite talent to forcing a player they didnt believe in?
I don't think we need to fully trust the NYG experts either - Minnesota not trading up far for JJM but being willing to give up 3 firsts for Drake is a pretty big tell for me that there's a bigger quality gap there than I thought.
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You can interpret it that way, but what if it has less to do with Jones and more to do with Nabers being an exceptional prospect, even among an outstanding, deep class of WRs?
Jones is not the future of this team. He is also not Kyle Lauletta or Tim Tebow. He is here until there's a clear cut option worth investing in at that position. Maye would have been that. They've told you that with their actions. Again, if the guy running the offense is not banging the table for these QBs, why isn't that giving anyone pause to consider their opinions? There persists this impression that there were 4-6 franchise QBs in this draft. There weren't.
I just disagree, TTH. So much of this comes directly back to Jones.
And I'm not sure we can conclude Jones isn't the future of the team.
I think it's plausible they had two plans.
Plan A was they thought Maye was so special that giving up future assets was worth it if they could pull it off.
And when they didn't execute that, they were perfectly comfortable falling back on Plan B. Plan B being they still think Jones is more 2022 version than 2023 version and they can still build a winner around him.
I don't know how many franchise QBs are in this draft yet. That still needs to play out.
But what I do know is for the first time in NFL history, six QBs were chosen out of the first twelve picks. And - again - two of the last three were selected by two very smart men developing QBs; and the third team, despite adding Kirk Cousins, felt Penix was so good they were willing to add him to their QB room.
Look, it sounds like you trust this group of football experts more than me right now and are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I just can't get there and think this draft was horribly managed.
I would add that we would have taken Maye if he came at a price thar was less than the 3 2nds the Jets traded to the Colts when the Colts didn't even need a QB.
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I just disagree, TTH. So much of this comes directly back to Jones.
And I'm not sure we can conclude Jones isn't the future of the team.
I think it's plausible they had two plans.
Plan A was they thought Maye was so special that giving up future assets was worth it if they could pull it off.
And when they didn't execute that, they were perfectly comfortable falling back on Plan B. Plan B being they still think Jones is more 2022 version than 2023 version and they can still build a winner around him.
I don't know how many franchise QBs are in this draft yet. That still needs to play out.
But what I do know is for the first time in NFL history, six QBs were chosen out of the first twelve picks. And - again - two of the last three were selected by two very smart men developing QBs; and the third team, despite adding Kirk Cousins, felt Penix was so good they were willing to add him to their QB room.
Look, it sounds like you trust this group of football experts more than me right now and are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I just can't get there and think this draft was horribly managed.
im with you until the last sentence, at which point up turns down since you've spent the last 6 months arguing against JJM to me. I know you love Nabers so whether or not you feel different about Nix/Penix than JJM, I imagine you at least understand the concept that they preferred an elite talent to forcing a player they didnt believe in?
I don't think we need to fully trust the NYG experts either - Minnesota not trading up far for JJM but being willing to give up 3 firsts for Drake is a pretty big tell for me that there's a bigger quality gap there than I thought.
Regarding JJM vs Maye. It doesn't mean much to me that the Vikings were willing to trade 3 1sts for Maye and wait for JJM, NFL teams get this wrong every year. We will have to wait and see how that plays out, the Vikings may have gotten really lucky for all we know. I still think they did.
im with you until the last sentence, at which point up turns down since you've spent the last 6 months arguing against JJM to me. I know you love Nabers so whether or not you feel different about Nix/Penix than JJM, I imagine you at least understand the concept that they preferred an elite talent to forcing a player they didnt believe in?
I don't think we need to fully trust the NYG experts either - Minnesota not trading up far for JJM but being willing to give up 3 firsts for Drake is a pretty big tell for me that there's a bigger quality gap there than I thought.
I have argued that I didn't see elite skills with JMac. 100%.
However, I also said that I think JMac is more talented than Jones. So, if Schoen went in that direction, I could live with it because he would be an upgrade. And then leave the molding and development in the hands of Daboll.
The Nabers selection would have worked for me if we were able to grab Nix later in the draft. But that part was crushed by a history (6 QBs in the first 12 picks).
Jones is their QB now whether they truly believe in him or not. His success is now Daboll and Schoen's success. And his failure is their failure.
They better hope he steps it up this season or things are going to get uglier than they've ever been. Ironically, things getting uglier than ever may actually be the best thing for Schoen/the Giants as they can get a top 5 pick and some cover to draft Jones' replacement. But who knows if he'll even be given the opportunity the opportunity to make that pick
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im with you until the last sentence, at which point up turns down since you've spent the last 6 months arguing against JJM to me. I know you love Nabers so whether or not you feel different about Nix/Penix than JJM, I imagine you at least understand the concept that they preferred an elite talent to forcing a player they didnt believe in?
I don't think we need to fully trust the NYG experts either - Minnesota not trading up far for JJM but being willing to give up 3 firsts for Drake is a pretty big tell for me that there's a bigger quality gap there than I thought.
I have argued that I didn't see elite skills with JMac. 100%.
However, I also said that I think JMac is more talented than Jones. So, if Schoen went in that direction, I could live with it because he would be an upgrade. And then leave the molding and development in the hands of Daboll.
The Nabers selection would have worked for me if we were able to grab Nix later in the draft. But that part was crushed by a history (6 QBs in the first 12 picks).
honest question, how different did you view nix/lock going into their drafts? and how different do you view them as prospects right now?
ordinarily i think that type of comparison is dumb but bc of the covid exceptions and since nix is 24 and lock is 27, i think it's more apples/apples than a comparison like that usually is. i think that is probably in part how they viewed the lock signing since he is a weird choice for a traditional backup. what is his talent level as prospect right now relative to the non-top 3 qbs?
Or perhaps the QB is 50 percent of the team and all the other players a combined 50 percent. Funny, but Eli was a franchise quarterback and he played for seven full seasons following the 2nd Super Bowl wins, missing only one game, and in all those years they played in one post-season game. The Giants even went out and got him a genuine #1 receiver, who had an impressive first three years.
In OBJ's third year they did make the playoffs after two 6-10 seasons. That was the year that they signed all those free agents who transformed the team into a top ten defense. But the incoming GM got rid of all those players and the defense returned to lousy.
So the mixture of a franchise quarterback and an elite receiver did not turn the team back into a winner. Eli in his last season even had Barkley and his great rookie season. The only year he was sacked 40 or more times, 47 to be exact, and the team went 5-11. No link between the sacks and the disappointing season?
I would have been happy if they had kept McKinney and drafted the best pass-rushing DT. A fierce pass rush can neutralize a star QB. Under Parcells the team offense could not get out of the way of itself for a number of years, but the defense was so fierce that you could wear your Giants' labeled clothing in public.
So the main fallacy here is the belief that to win you must draft a top three quarterback and an elite receiver to go with a still lousy and inexperienced line. Any you will win! If you are snubbing the defense for the offense, then we have two examples right in our division that show us the example of how to build an offense.
They both went heavily for their offensive lines. I think Dallas at one point had four first round draft choices on their line. Maybe only three. And neither won with QB's drafted in the top six. Or even ten. Prescott was late 4th round and Hurt late second round.
There is no reason why the Giants can't audition one or two quarterbacks if Jones can't make it through the season for reason of the team's play or his health. Think how much they save in cash and draft capital if they find a very good QB who had been rated highly, but for some reason it didn't work out with his first team.
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Mike nails it.
I imagine 2/3 of the league would replace their QB if they found themselves in spitting distance of getting a top 3 prospect, for the talent and economics.
Trying to get Maye is absolutely not a
vote of no confidence in Jones. It was an opportunity of circumstance.
+1 Had to look into a trade options if you have a conviction on a QB, but it wass never going to ANY QB like BBI thinks. Replace him at all cost smh. BBI has failed to realize their views of DJ is not in alignment with owner, GM and coach.
MARA dont sign extend a QB to that contract if HE didnt believe in him.
Fixed it.
Mid QB prospects haha. Ok. We’ll look back on this and laugh even harder after about 10 games.
Not that hard to grasp.
Not that hard to grasp.
I think this is mostly accurate. If Jones stays healthy and they can get 15-20 total TDs out of Jones this year, I think they will only look to draft a QB next year if they are blown away by one they like as they were with Maye this year.
I do think Schoen sees 2022 as a really impressive performance by Jones and would be very satisfied if he duplicated that in 2024.
If that's the case, then I misjudged Joe Schoen and I hope he gets replaced soon. 2022 was only impressive by Daniel Jones standards. By NFL at large standards, it was a mediocre performance.
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I do think Schoen sees 2022 as a really impressive performance by Jones and would be very satisfied if he duplicated that in 2024.
If that's the case, then I misjudged Joe Schoen and I hope he gets replaced soon. 2022 was only impressive by Daniel Jones standards. By NFL at large standards, it was a mediocre performance.
I agree with this completely. Jones was effective in 2022 only because of the designed runs, which the league caught onto which is why they limped down the stretch outside of the two worst defenses in the NFL - Indy and Minnestota.
I don't think Jones can consistently beat teams from the pocket. I think part of the reason the team was so high on Nabers was he presents the opportunity to take WR screens, slants and end arounds to the house. It is a different way to manufacture points.
But I also think Schoen sees much more in Jones that most of this board or the fan base does.
If Jones is healthy, he is 100% starting the season. They will drop hints that the best player will play, but Jones has the job and he would have to outright lose it with performances nobody could argue were terrible.
But here we are.
What a shock! Fans who were hoping that the Giants would upgrade the most important position in American sports, where the Giants' incumbent starter is underwhelming and oft-injured, are going to express their disappointment that the Giants failed to upgrade that position.
You really nailed it with that "feeling," Ryan. Any hot stock tips you want to share, Nostradamus?
But here we are.
31 other teams and their fans are ecstatic that Jones remains the NYG starting QB1.
Holy shit already.
You see how much work the Giants did scouting ALL of these QBs no? I sure did.
Isn't it clear at this point that this regime sees how far behind their roster - their WHOLE FUCKING ROSTER - is than Philly/Dallas? Isn't it clear that they are trying to build this team and they felt the best way to do it was to add one of the highest graded passing playmakers in years in a passing league? And for fuck's sake, isn't it clear that they don't agree with these dopey assessments from the BBI peanut gallery that Daniel Jones is the worst fucking QB in the league??
They made their decision to build the team. We don't even know how much ceiling if any that Jones has going forward. But they have already proven that they can win with him with a terrible roster. That is WHY they gave him the contract. It's not some fucking conspiracy with Mara. They scouted the QBs and they felt it was best to pass on this crap (at least if they couldn't get one of Williams, Daniels, Maye). They are building the team AS THEY SHOULD WANT TO DO and will roll with the guy that they already decided that they liked.
And I am quite sure no matter how next year goes to be scouting the shit out of next year's QB crop (AS THEY SHOULD).
I mean Geezus the amount of tired takes here is just ridiculous. They may be wrong, regimes are wrong ALL the time and get replaced. But it's pretty clear how they feel at this point.
In my interpretation, the decision to draft Nabers was a declaration by the Schoen and Daboll that they thought Jones was a better QB than Nix. Penix and JMac.
You might be okay with that. But I found that very troublesome.
If they take JJ (or the others), which I wanted, they don't get Nabers. So, just for clarification, DJ & Nabers vs JJ and Franklin...or some such.
I still wanted JJ, but if they felt that the "other 3 guys" were nothing more than a stop-gap until a stud became available, I can why they took the "hopefully" generational WR.
if he can remain healthy I think he fits it well and will produce numbers that answer our endless debate.
Some of you have been having fantasies that we would draft a QB and we would either cut Jones(Threads are here) or the rookie would beat out the guy who knows the offense because Jones sucks so badly.
That fantasy was dashed on draft day.
The rest of us get to watch and chuckle as some of you throw a very long and public temper tantrum.
TGH eats more popcorn :)
I wanted McCarthy at 6 but can live with this NP.
Could it be that they just had Nabers rated a lot higher?
Some of you have been having fantasies that we would draft a QB and we would either cut Jones(Threads are here) or the rookie would beat out the guy who knows the offense because Jones sucks so badly.
That fantasy was dashed on draft day.
The rest of us get to watch and chuckle as some of you throw a very long and public temper tantrum when the season is over by Halloween .
I fixed this for you.
I don't understand the fans who would rather lose with Daniel Jones than try anything else, but we all fan differently.
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I'd love to know more about the evaluation process that determined Maye was so much better than the other 3 that he was worth trading up for, and the other 3 weren't worth drafting at 6.
Could it be that they just had Nabers rated a lot higher?
Even if they did, it's poor team building. Nabers could be awesome; if the quarterback sucks it won't matter...the offense is still going to struggle.
It's drafting Saquon Barkley all over again.
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Some of you have been having fantasies that we would draft a QB and we would either cut Jones(Threads are here) or the rookie would beat out the guy who knows the offense because Jones sucks so badly.
That fantasy was dashed on draft day.
The rest of us get to watch and chuckle as some of you throw a very long and public temper tantrum when the season is over by Halloween .
I fixed this for you.
I don't understand the fans who would rather lose with Daniel Jones than try anything else, but we all fan differently.
The difference between us is that I am CERTAIN I don’t have all the information on the draft picks, Jones medicals, how his recovery has progressed the internal scouting on last season ect. And on and on. Maybe we will be done by Halloween, I don’t know.
I do know:
If AT goes down in game 1, the receiving threat we built our offense around doesn’t play at all the entire season, then the QB blows an ACL.
We might win 5-6 games and I don’t care who the QB is in that scenario.
Still excited for 2024
Who is having a better day?
You or I?
I am not sure why you think people who question the Giants team building decisions are upset or depressed, but you couldn't be more wrong.
But there may be something to the old adage "Ignorance is bliss."
I am not sure why you think people who question the Giants team building decisions are upset or depressed, but you couldn't be more wrong.
But there may be something to the old adage "Ignorance is bliss."
I have a tattoo on my leg that states:
Wisdom is the awareness of ignorance
It is a constant reminder that I do not know everything and the more I learn the more I realize what I don’t know. Is this a concept that you can grasp? That the more you learn , you begin to understand how ignorant you are.
A person that knows little has a very difficult time grasping this concept. The less knowledge a person possesses the less they understand what they do not know. They can’t even conceive of others things because the circle of their knowledge is so small.
I am happy because, I find the cries of spoiled brats tasty.
Why are you happy?
I have a tattoo on my leg that states:
Wisdom is the awareness of ignorance
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thanks for asking.
I am not sure why you think people who question the Giants team building decisions are upset or depressed, but you couldn't be more wrong.
But there may be something to the old adage "Ignorance is bliss."
There is some comfort in understanding how much you do not know.
I have a tattoo on my leg that states:
Wisdom is the awareness of ignorance
It is a constant reminder that I do not know everything and the more I learn the more I realize what I don’t know. Is this a concept that you can grasp? That the more you learn , you begin to understand how ignorant you are.
A person that knows little has a very difficult time grasping this concept. The less knowledge a person possesses the less they understand what they do not know. They can’t even conceive of others things because the circle of their knowledge is so small.
I am happy because, I find the cries of spoiled brats tasty.
Why are you happy?
You can be critical of how thr NYG have been operating with seemingly excessive amounts of Owner-involvement while still being happy with your life. After all, football is just entertainment. As much as we all are diehard fans, this is just entertainment ultimately.
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In comment 16503722 Mike from Ohio said:
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thanks for asking.
I am not sure why you think people who question the Giants team building decisions are upset or depressed, but you couldn't be more wrong.
But there may be something to the old adage "Ignorance is bliss."
There is some comfort in understanding how much you do not know.
I have a tattoo on my leg that states:
Wisdom is the awareness of ignorance
It is a constant reminder that I do not know everything and the more I learn the more I realize what I don’t know. Is this a concept that you can grasp? That the more you learn , you begin to understand how ignorant you are.
A person that knows little has a very difficult time grasping this concept. The less knowledge a person possesses the less they understand what they do not know. They can’t even conceive of others things because the circle of their knowledge is so small.
I am happy because, I find the cries of spoiled brats tasty.
Why are you happy?
You can be critical of how thr NYG have been operating with seemingly excessive amounts of Owner-involvement while still being happy with your life. After all, football is just entertainment. As much as we all are diehard fans, this is just entertainment ultimately.
I’m just talking about the time that has since Thursday. Last 7 days, based on has been posted and I specifically address the magnitude. When The same people, that already post often, increase their posting and examine the content of the posting. I don’t feel I need to link, anything it is all over the board.
In conclusion, for the last week the entirety of some people’s posting has been negative a filled with incoming doom.
Y’all appear mad AF
If you do not realize this.
Add a shocking lack of self awareness to my critique of the spoiled brats.
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In comment 16503722 Mike from Ohio said:
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thanks for asking.
I am not sure why you think people who question the Giants team building decisions are upset or depressed, but you couldn't be more wrong.
But there may be something to the old adage "Ignorance is bliss."
There is some comfort in understanding how much you do not know.
I have a tattoo on my leg that states:
Wisdom is the awareness of ignorance
It is a constant reminder that I do not know everything and the more I learn the more I realize what I don’t know. Is this a concept that you can grasp? That the more you learn , you begin to understand how ignorant you are.
A person that knows little has a very difficult time grasping this concept. The less knowledge a person possesses the less they understand what they do not know. They can’t even conceive of others things because the circle of their knowledge is so small.
I am happy because, I find the cries of spoiled brats tasty.
Why are you happy?
You can be critical of how thr NYG have been operating with seemingly excessive amounts of Owner-involvement while still being happy with your life. After all, football is just entertainment. As much as we all are diehard fans, this is just entertainment ultimately.
But do we now just shit on the team because it didn't go as we wanted?
If so, how long? Until the Giants have a new QB (so,all of 2024)?
Until they win a playoff game...wait, scratch that one.
Until they win 2 playoff games but only if at least one of the teams that they beat has a top 5 defense?
So, I get the gripe. I wanted a QB too...but, the squad is the squad.
What is the grace period for emotional (also called realistic) responses to the daily football digest?
Until they win a playoff game...wait, scratch that one.
Until they win 2 playoff games but only if at least one of the teams that they beat has a top 5 defense?
So, I get the gripe. I wanted a QB too...but, the squad is the squad.
What is the grace period for emotional (also called realistic) responses to the daily football digest?
They've had 2 seasons in the last decade in which they lost fewer than 10 games. You want a grace period? Earn one.
If you don't care about wins or losses, that's up to you. Lots of fans do care.
I've posted this in several places: oddsmakers who have no bias against the Giants expect them to be one of the worst trans in the NFL in 2024. Could they be wrong? Sure. Are they usually?
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In comment 16503746 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 16503722 Mike from Ohio said:
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thanks for asking.
I am not sure why you think people who question the Giants team building decisions are upset or depressed, but you couldn't be more wrong.
But there may be something to the old adage "Ignorance is bliss."
There is some comfort in understanding how much you do not know.
I have a tattoo on my leg that states:
Wisdom is the awareness of ignorance
It is a constant reminder that I do not know everything and the more I learn the more I realize what I don’t know. Is this a concept that you can grasp? That the more you learn , you begin to understand how ignorant you are.
A person that knows little has a very difficult time grasping this concept. The less knowledge a person possesses the less they understand what they do not know. They can’t even conceive of others things because the circle of their knowledge is so small.
I am happy because, I find the cries of spoiled brats tasty.
Why are you happy?
You can be critical of how thr NYG have been operating with seemingly excessive amounts of Owner-involvement while still being happy with your life. After all, football is just entertainment. As much as we all are diehard fans, this is just entertainment ultimately.
No problem with not liking how the draft played out.
But do we now just shit on the team because it didn't go as we wanted?
If so, how long? Until the Giants have a new QB (so,all of 2024)?
Until they win a playoff game...wait, scratch that one.
Until they win 2 playoff games but only if at least one of the teams that they beat has a top 5 defense?
So, I get the gripe. I wanted a QB too...but, the squad is the squad.
What is the grace period for emotional (also called realistic) responses to the daily football digest?
I'm not upset about any of it personally. I like the roster construction that we have happening. I'm not going back in hindsight about any of it. I'm most happy that we didn't trade the farm for Maye.
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Until they win a playoff game...wait, scratch that one.
Until they win 2 playoff games but only if at least one of the teams that they beat has a top 5 defense?
So, I get the gripe. I wanted a QB too...but, the squad is the squad.
What is the grace period for emotional (also called realistic) responses to the daily football digest?
They've had 2 seasons in the last decade in which they lost fewer than 10 games. You want a grace period? Earn one.
The team is what it is. Nobody is happy with mediocrity.
But, every conversation isn't about the QB.
We'd all like a much better option.
We'd also like to be able to discuss the draft. It was a very good draft.
I am happy because I find simpletons amusing.
Look at us, keeping each other smiling (although I'd be smiling even more if your comma usage was cleaned up a bit).
I've watched a bunch of Maye's games and he looked so raw to me. very risky.
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I'd love to know more about the evaluation process that determined Maye was so much better than the other 3 that he was worth trading up for, and the other 3 weren't worth drafting at 6.
I've watched a bunch of Maye's games and he looked so raw to me. very risky.
I don't think he's got it between the ears. Plus, his release, footwork and mechanics need serious work too.
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In comment 16503791 Brown_Hornet said:
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Until they win a playoff game...wait, scratch that one.
Until they win 2 playoff games but only if at least one of the teams that they beat has a top 5 defense?
So, I get the gripe. I wanted a QB too...but, the squad is the squad.
What is the grace period for emotional (also called realistic) responses to the daily football digest?
They've had 2 seasons in the last decade in which they lost fewer than 10 games. You want a grace period? Earn one.
The grace period is for the angry posters, not the team.
The team is what it is. Nobody is happy with mediocrity.
But, every conversation isn't about the QB.
We'd all like a much better option.
We'd also like to be able to discuss the draft. It was a very good draft.
Well sorry to rain on your parade-- but it may have been a further blundering draft. I say "might have." It could be good - we'll see. But just becuase some of you might nto care abot the QB, it doesn't eman we can't discuss it. You have to understand that a lot of football IS about the QB.
I am pretty comfortable based on your inability to express a rational thought without meandering through unconnected phrases and inability to format written text into any kind of acceptable grammatical form, that there is not a single concept you grasp that I can't.
Try this one on for size, Aristotle - having an opinion does not require perfect knowledge. A person can draw conclusions on all available information, and not defer to others in all instances where knowledge is not complete.
And whats makes me happy? An exchange of differing opinions with a knowledgeable person with a differing viewpoint. Since that is not happening with you, I will not be responding to you anymore.
Enjoy your self-proclaimed ignorant bliss!
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It is a constant reminder that I do not know everything and the more I learn the more I realize what I don’t know. Is this a concept that you can grasp? That the more you learn , you begin to understand how ignorant you are.
I am pretty comfortable based on your inability to express a rational thought without meandering through unconnected phrases and inability to format written text into any kind of acceptable grammatical form, that there is not a single concept you grasp that I can't.
Try this one on for size, Aristotle - having an opinion does not require perfect knowledge. A person can draw conclusions on all available information, and not defer to others in all instances where knowledge is not complete.
And whats makes me happy? An exchange of differing opinions with a knowledgeable person with a differing viewpoint. Since that is not happening with you, I will not be responding to you anymore.
Enjoy your self-proclaimed ignorant bliss!
I enjoy the Socrates-inspired deadhead who's obviously done boatloads of psychedelics, but you're expressing faith in DJ so certainly that you contradict your Socrates ignorance ideology. Seems a bit ironic;)
Well sorry to rain on your parade-- but it may have been a further blundering draft. I say "might have." It could be good - we'll see. But just becuase some of you might nto care abot the QB, it doesn't eman we can't discuss it. You have to understand that a lot of football IS about the QB.
No, and I'm quite comfortable in my football acumen including the importance of the QB position.
Please, discuss the QB position.
Just know that repeating the same criticisms post after post, thread after thread, month after month makes people appear less than intelligent and more emotional.
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Well sorry to rain on your parade-- but it may have been a further blundering draft. I say "might have." It could be good - we'll see. But just becuase some of you might nto care abot the QB, it doesn't eman we can't discuss it. You have to understand that a lot of football IS about the QB.
Rain?
No, and I'm quite comfortable in my football acumen including the importance of the QB position.
Please, discuss the QB position.
Just know that repeating the same criticisms post after post, thread after thread, month after month makes people appear less than intelligent and more emotional.
And yet tehre are teh same psots over ando ver in regard how well we did in the draft, right?
‘As an Eagles fan, I love this news LOL’
Not the brightest bunch. Like JJ McCarthy over Nabers would've made any difference at all this season. Or next.
It was directed to grateful head lol my bad
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Are you suggesting I have expressed faith in Daniel Jones? I wasn't sure who that reply was directed towards.
It was directed to grateful head lol my bad
No worries.
If you think the team is just about the QB then I don't care much about your other opinions. You can still be a quality team without a top QB.
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In comment 16503917 giantstock said:
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Well sorry to rain on your parade-- but it may have been a further blundering draft. I say "might have." It could be good - we'll see. But just becuase some of you might nto care abot the QB, it doesn't eman we can't discuss it. You have to understand that a lot of football IS about the QB.
Rain?
No, and I'm quite comfortable in my football acumen including the importance of the QB position.
Please, discuss the QB position.
Just know that repeating the same criticisms post after post, thread after thread, month after month makes people appear less than intelligent and more emotional.
And yet tehre are teh same psots over ando ver in regard how well we did in the draft, right?
The draft just happened. Additionally, there are 6 different players to comment on.
Lots of brand new material.
Like I said, right or wrong, I wanted JJ. Didn't happen.
And, I didn't become a fan of a different team.
So, Go Giants...including the QB that I hoped would be replaced.
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In comment 16503995 Brown_Hornet said:
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In comment 16503917 giantstock said:
Quote:
Well sorry to rain on your parade-- but it may have been a further blundering draft. I say "might have." It could be good - we'll see. But just becuase some of you might nto care abot the QB, it doesn't eman we can't discuss it. You have to understand that a lot of football IS about the QB.
Rain?
No, and I'm quite comfortable in my football acumen including the importance of the QB position.
Please, discuss the QB position.
Just know that repeating the same criticisms post after post, thread after thread, month after month makes people appear less than intelligent and more emotional.
And yet tehre are teh same psots over ando ver in regard how well we did in the draft, right?
I don't think that you're making the point that you'd like to.
The draft just happened. Additionally, there are 6 different players to comment on.
Lots of brand new material.
Like I said, right or wrong, I wanted JJ. Didn't happen.
And, I didn't become a fan of a different team.
So, Go Giants...including the QB that I hoped would be replaced.
That's where I'm at too. Roster is being built well, we are actually looking like a good QB away from being competitive now. That's a big evolution from where we've been. Can DJ be that QB? I don't think so, but I still believe in miracles.
Parris Campbell, Waller, swing tackle, Neal, Glowinski, McKethan playing RG, Ezeudu playing LT, keeping Andrew Thomas in game 1 when he was clearly injured and hobbled, Wink's defense was asleep for the first several games of the season. It was a total shitshow.
I think they had a mandate to improve and build the team and finally fix the OL.
Hence, why we have seen some very aggressive moves to do just that. Burns trade, signing 2 OL, vet OL depth (something we didnt have last year), new OL coach, new DC, etc.
Best post by far. This clearly makes the most sense. Not some weird conspiracy
Lots of brand new material.
There are plenty of threads on those players where you can comment. Those threads aren't being bombarded with Jones comments. Actually those threads aren't getting many comments because my guess is the fanbase fundamentally isn't that enthused; they know the team isn't likely to be very good in 2024 in large part because there is no quarterback.
This is a thread about Garafolo talking about Jones. And you're here on it complaining about people complaining about Jones.
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You can interpret it that way, but what if it has less to do with Jones and more to do with Nabers being an exceptional prospect, even among an outstanding, deep class of WRs?
Jones is not the future of this team. He is also not Kyle Lauletta or Tim Tebow. He is here until there's a clear cut option worth investing in at that position. Maye would have been that. They've told you that with their actions. Again, if the guy running the offense is not banging the table for these QBs, why isn't that giving anyone pause to consider their opinions? There persists this impression that there were 4-6 franchise QBs in this draft. There weren't.
I just disagree, TTH. So much of this comes directly back to Jones.
And I'm not sure we can conclude Jones isn't the future of the team.
I think it's plausible they had two plans.
Plan A was they thought Maye was so special that giving up future assets was worth it if they could pull it off.
And when they didn't execute that, they were perfectly comfortable falling back on Plan B. Plan B being they still think Jones is more 2022 version than 2023 version and they can still build a winner around him.
I don't know how many franchise QBs are in this draft yet. That still needs to play out.
But what I do know is for the first time in NFL history, six QBs were chosen out of the first twelve picks. And - again - two of the last three were selected by two very smart men developing QBs; and the third team, despite adding Kirk Cousins, felt Penix was so good they were willing to add him to their QB room.
Look, it sounds like you trust this group of football experts more than me right now and are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I just can't get there and think this draft was horribly managed.
What got Daboll the job was his working reputation with QBs. If we are out on confidence in him then it's all over anyway. There's no reason for him to be employed if he doesn't know how to evaluate quarterbacks. All there is left to hang on is that Daboll knows what he's looking at.
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Additionally, there are 6 different players to comment on.
Lots of brand new material.
There are plenty of threads on those players where you can comment. Those threads aren't being bombarded with Jones comments. Actually those threads aren't getting many comments because my guess is the fanbase fundamentally isn't that enthused; they know the team isn't likely to be very good in 2024 in large part because there is no quarterback.
This is a thread about Garafolo talking about Jones. And you're here on it complaining about people complaining about Jones.
If we can keep this separation all Summer I will be thrilled.
But, I am not complaining. I fully expect that post draft that there should be perplexed fans, myself included, wondering why a QB was not targeted in RD1.
But, when the thrill of the draft (or lack thereof), wears off, I have a feeling, based on past performances, what to expect in here.
So, when I hear the record skipping, I will try and get the music back on.
That's who I am.
I know you and know that you're going to do you...more power to you.
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when practically every move made by the GM and decisions made by the Daboll failed the team, and particularly DJ.
Parris Campbell, Waller, swing tackle, Neal, Glowinski, McKethan playing RG, Ezeudu playing LT, keeping Andrew Thomas in game 1 when he was clearly injured and hobbled, Wink's defense was asleep for the first several games of the season. It was a total shitshow.
I think they had a mandate to improve and build the team and finally fix the OL.
Hence, why we have seen some very aggressive moves to do just that. Burns trade, signing 2 OL, vet OL depth (something we didnt have last year), new OL coach, new DC, etc.
Best post by far. This clearly makes the most sense. Not some weird conspiracy
If Schoen couldn't make the case to move on from Daniel Jones then he doesn't understand numbers and basic analysis and is not fit for the job.
That's who I am."
That's how we feel, watching the same garbage over and over again.
We can however have a different perspective and better conversations.
Eric is related to the Mara’s and he knows the best way to get traffic in this site is to have Jones start.
Am I close Eric? Lol
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when practically every move made by the GM and decisions made by the Daboll failed the team, and particularly DJ.
Parris Campbell, Waller, swing tackle, Neal, Glowinski, McKethan playing RG, Ezeudu playing LT, keeping Andrew Thomas in game 1 when he was clearly injured and hobbled, Wink's defense was asleep for the first several games of the season. It was a total shitshow.
I think they had a mandate to improve and build the team and finally fix the OL.
Hence, why we have seen some very aggressive moves to do just that. Burns trade, signing 2 OL, vet OL depth (something we didnt have last year), new OL coach, new DC, etc.
Best post by far. This clearly makes the most sense. Not some weird conspiracy
Very likely a factor, good call.
Eric is related to the Mara’s and he knows the best way to get traffic in this site is to have Jones start.
Am I close Eric? Lol
Something is going with Kennedy. Pre-draft he was in a pretty foul mood around here. Since then, he's singing a much different tune.
I'm starting to think someone from the Mara empire got to him.
Like Sue Ellen Mischtke got to Jerry in Kramer's case against the Oh Henry! candy bar empire.
Eric is related to the Mara’s and he knows the best way to get traffic in this site is to have Jones start.
Am I close Eric? Lol
There is so much stupid in what you wrote that I don't even know where to start. You might want to try another website.
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It’s pretty clear.
Eric is related to the Mara’s and he knows the best way to get traffic in this site is to have Jones start.
Am I close Eric? Lol
Something is going with Kennedy. Pre-draft he was in a pretty foul mood around here. Since then, he's singing a much different tune.
I'm starting to think someone from the Mara empire got to him.
Like Sue Ellen Mischtke got to Jerry in Kramer's case against the Oh Henry! candy bar empire.
My position has not changed since November. Not one bit.
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In comment 16504300 JT039 said:
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It’s pretty clear.
Eric is related to the Mara’s and he knows the best way to get traffic in this site is to have Jones start.
Am I close Eric? Lol
Something is going with Kennedy. Pre-draft he was in a pretty foul mood around here. Since then, he's singing a much different tune.
I'm starting to think someone from the Mara empire got to him.
Like Sue Ellen Mischtke got to Jerry in Kramer's case against the Oh Henry! candy bar empire.
My position has not changed since November. Not one bit.
There is no need to reply to bw in dc. He’s a drama queen conspiracy theorist that thinks far too highly of himself for some damn reason. It’s mind boggling. Jack Stroud is a football savant compared to him
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It’s pretty clear.
Eric is related to the Mara’s and he knows the best way to get traffic in this site is to have Jones start.
Am I close Eric? Lol
Something is going with Kennedy. Pre-draft he was in a pretty foul mood around here. Since then, he's singing a much different tune.
I'm starting to think someone from the Mara empire got to him.
Like Sue Ellen Mischtke got to Jerry in Kramer's case against the Oh Henry! candy bar empire.
bw, you did not like any of McCarthy/Penix/Nix at six. You liked Maye. You agreed with Schoen.