May 1st, 2024
A lot to unpack here in this almost 2,000-word thought piece on the Giants Draft. Here's a very brief summary that hardly does it justice:
1. Other than the Bears, the Giants may have drafted the most impactful players in the entire NFL, which would include the trading of their 2nd Round pick for Brian Burns.
2. Cannot overstate the importance of the potential impact of drafting an elite wide receiver like Malik Nabers. Elite WRs help their QB and help other WRs.
3. Fine with Safety Tyler Nubin pick but was leaning toward Defensive Tackle Maason Smith taken with the very next pick. Nubin was a need pick.
4. Running Back Tyronne Tracey could be one of the steals in the Draft.
Several passages caught my eye -- here are a few quoted directly:
1. "(with the addition of Malik Nabers, the Giant WR unit is) close to a world-class 400M relay team and if nothing else gives the Giants team speed on the outside that they have only be able to dream about in the past."
2. "Needless to say there is still work to be done, but barring some unforeseen disaster this is not in any way just a 6-win team."
3. "...we aren’t at all convinced that the Giants made all that much of an effort to trade up (for a QB.)"
4. "...our theory is that championships aren’t won by teams with the fewest holes in their roster, but by those with the most impact players that make the most impact plays."
5. "...over the course of his career, Eli was a very good QB when he had special receivers but was closer to ordinary when he didn’t."
Link - (
New Window )
Probably.
And people still somehow trust the evaluation skills of someone with that observation.
I've looked at several post draft "evaluations" and the Giants come out quite favorably.
I'm gonna keep my tongue behind my teeth as far as Rich Eisen goes.
Probably.
And people still somehow trust the evaluation skills of someone with that observation.
That phrase could have simply been a huge under-statement from GBN. That's how I read it.
Eisen is a Michigan alum who was a mouthpiece for Harbaugh when it came to JJ McCarthy. While I did think this was a 4 QB draft when it came to first round QB's (I did not have Penix or Nix that high), McCarthy and Maye were towards the back of my first round rankings whereas Daniels and Williams were towards the top. On talent alone I had MHJ and Nabers as the best two in the draft, but the value of QB meant if you could land Daniels or Williams you had to do it.
why is that?
If you watch the YouTube the Jets put out each year praising the draft and the process I believe Rich does the vocals.
Quote:
"Daniel Jones is probably not as good as Patrick Mahomes."
Probably.
And people still somehow trust the evaluation skills of someone with that observation.
That phrase could have simply been a huge under-statement from GBN. That's how I read it.
Given the surrounding context of Colin's DJ enthusiasm, I think it was 100% sincere, and that opinion has only been reinforced by Colin's reluctance to ever even attempt to walk it back since making the claim.
He's a DJ stan who also happens to be a draft expert, but never puts the former aside in favor of the latter, IMO. As long as everyone knows that bias going in, it makes the digestion of his opinions a lot easier.
I agree with this pretty strongly. The NFL is more like the NBA than we think. Game-wreckers tend to be more important than merely solid players.
Otherwise, I can't past lot of Colin's points regarding QBs. Yes, Eli performed better with healthy, talented WRs, but he never possessed the same fatal flaws as Jones.
Quote:
In comment 16503439 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
"Daniel Jones is probably not as good as Patrick Mahomes."
Probably.
And people still somehow trust the evaluation skills of someone with that observation.
That phrase could have simply been a huge under-statement from GBN. That's how I read it.
Given the surrounding context of Colin's DJ enthusiasm, I think it was 100% sincere, and that opinion has only been reinforced by Colin's reluctance to ever even attempt to walk it back since making the claim.
He's a DJ stan who also happens to be a draft expert, but never puts the former aside in favor of the latter, IMO. As long as everyone knows that bias going in, it makes the digestion of his opinions a lot easier.
Please reference the "surrounding context of Colin's DJ enthusiasm."
I did not see it.
And now he's killing NYG because they didn't act out his insider horse shit info. Oh well, go run a 40 yard dash in your khacki cranky pants..
Burrow had only started 10 games until then!
I agree with this pretty strongly. The NFL is more like the NBA than we think. Game-wreckers tend to be more important than merely solid players.
Otherwise, I can't past lot of Colin's points regarding QBs. Yes, Eli performed better with healthy, talented WRs, but he never possessed the same fatal flaws as Jones.
I couldn't agree more with this.
The Giants OL didn't suck last year as much because of the below average players like Glowinski or JMS at center or Bredson as much as they were without Andrew Thomas for far too long. When Thomas came back the OL went from god awful to below average yet functional.
This team needs more impact players than hole fillers or ditch diggers. PLus, those guys can be found anywhere and everywhere.
If Burns, Thibs, Lawrence and Okereke and Banks all play a lot of games in 24, the D will be good even if some of the other positions are merely slightly below average. Elite players win games. They elevate other players. They elevate schemes. On offense we go as far as Thomas and the new guards, but notably Thomas. You can run your offense around the elite LT just like we did in 22. You can survive.
At times you can lose seasons because of the awful player or two, but there's usually an injury to an elite player mixed in there.
Quote:
"...our theory is that championships aren’t won by teams with the fewest holes in their roster, but by those with the most impact players that make the most impact plays."
I agree with this pretty strongly. The NFL is more like the NBA than we think. Game-wreckers tend to be more important than merely solid players.
Otherwise, I can't past lot of Colin's points regarding QBs. Yes, Eli performed better with healthy, talented WRs, but he never possessed the same fatal flaws as Jones.
I couldn't agree more with this.
The Giants OL didn't suck last year as much because of the below average players like Glowinski or JMS at center or Bredson as much as they were without Andrew Thomas for far too long. When Thomas came back the OL went from god awful to below average yet functional.
This team needs more impact players than hole fillers or ditch diggers. PLus, those guys can be found anywhere and everywhere.
Yup, I always look to the 2007 Giants for this. You could say their secondary and LBs had 'holes.' Cooked Sam Madison and meh Aaron Ross as 2nd and 3rd CBs, a bunch of journeymen safeties. Didn't matter because Tuck, Osi, and Strahan wouldn't give QBs time to exploit them anyway.
The wishcasting and projection with Jones is out of control. Could he play within himself and lead this team to 9 wins? Yes. Will he suddenly become a top-15 passer? No evidence for that, going all the way back to Duke.
Nubin was considered a 1st round talent by many pundits. He was the first safety drafted. A bunch of DTs got drafted before the Giants picked. So.... if you want to talk BPA...
Quote:
In comment 16503446 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 16503439 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
"Daniel Jones is probably not as good as Patrick Mahomes."
Probably.
And people still somehow trust the evaluation skills of someone with that observation.
That phrase could have simply been a huge under-statement from GBN. That's how I read it.
Given the surrounding context of Colin's DJ enthusiasm, I think it was 100% sincere, and that opinion has only been reinforced by Colin's reluctance to ever even attempt to walk it back since making the claim.
He's a DJ stan who also happens to be a draft expert, but never puts the former aside in favor of the latter, IMO. As long as everyone knows that bias going in, it makes the digestion of his opinions a lot easier.
I just reread the article.
Please reference the "surrounding context of Colin's DJ enthusiasm."
I did not see it.
Oh sorry, I forgot that on BBI you're only allowed to read the very specific article linked and not the years worth of articles (and BBI posts) that a person has written. I guess that makes it a lot easier to ignore the parts you can't reconcile.
Colin has been a DJ fanboy for years. That's the surrounding context.
Quote:
Because they chose not to pay either Love or McKinney … let’s revisit this one in December and see how it worked out.
Nubin was considered a 1st round talent by many pundits. He was the first safety drafted. A bunch of DTs got drafted before the Giants picked. So.... if you want to talk BPA...
Respectfully, strictly on the latter point above, I don't see how that has anything to do with BPA unless you're judging it strictly by the positional ranking (which isn't truly BPA, right?).
If you could choose the third QB off the board, or the first kicker, would you argue that the kicker is BPA because there had already been a couple of QBs taken?
Quote:
is GBN trying to say that because Eli Manning wasn't as good without great receivers we should trust that Daniel Jones, who hasn't been good with any receivers, is suddenly going to be good? That's a logical fallacy.
The wishcasting and projection with Jones is out of control. Could he play within himself and lead this team to 9 wins? Yes. Will he suddenly become a top-15 passer? No evidence for that, going all the way back to Duke.
I'm not sure you guys have this quite right. #5 is an explicit reference about great WRs making QBs better. While that may/could also apply to Daniel Jones, there's no explicit reference to him. But there are numerous examples of other QBs made even better by great WRs, such as Josh Allen, Joe Burrow and Tua.
thanks!
DT was also a major need position. Still is. So your argument here is asinine. They took the player they liked more
I do believe that the Giants have significantly improved the team with the players they obtained in the draft (including Burns).
I also agree that if Nabers is what we hope he can be, then the whole receiving corps will be better. I also think that it will be easier to run the ball.
The defense is getting there. They have excellent players at all three levels. And an ascending DL.
Quote:
In comment 16503463 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16503446 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 16503439 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
"Daniel Jones is probably not as good as Patrick Mahomes."
Probably.
And people still somehow trust the evaluation skills of someone with that observation.
That phrase could have simply been a huge under-statement from GBN. That's how I read it.
Given the surrounding context of Colin's DJ enthusiasm, I think it was 100% sincere, and that opinion has only been reinforced by Colin's reluctance to ever even attempt to walk it back since making the claim.
He's a DJ stan who also happens to be a draft expert, but never puts the former aside in favor of the latter, IMO. As long as everyone knows that bias going in, it makes the digestion of his opinions a lot easier.
I just reread the article.
Please reference the "surrounding context of Colin's DJ enthusiasm."
I did not see it.
Oh sorry, I forgot that on BBI you're only allowed to read the very specific article linked and not the years worth of articles (and BBI posts) that a person has written. I guess that makes it a lot easier to ignore the parts you can't reconcile.
Colin has been a DJ fanboy for years. That's the surrounding context.
Lighten' up lil pup, maybe Colin can answer for himself because you clearly aren't going to.
I agree with this pretty strongly. The NFL is more like the NBA than we think. Game-wreckers tend to be more important than merely solid players.
Otherwise, I can't past lot of Colin's points regarding QBs. Yes, Eli performed better with healthy, talented WRs, but he never possessed the same fatal flaws as Jones.
What? I don't he was saying Eli and Jones are the same, just that Eli was closer to average when he had less tools. Very few QB's are better with less which makes Mahomes status so much greater and the same with Tom Brady.
Just a couple of comments. First I must admit I am unabashedly a Dan Jones fan because I am a NY Giants fan (and have been since 1958) and he's the NY Giants QB. If the Giants had in fact been able to trade for Drake Maye on Thursday and released DJ on Friday I would unabashedly be a Drake Maye fan.
However, as much as possible I try and keep my GBN analyst's hat and my Giants fan's hat separate. In fact I think people tend to confuse the fact that what I am ever really trying to do is analyze and explain what the Giants are doing and what the thinking is there rather than what I would do or prefer which I have almost never ever stated. And the last time I looked Jones is still very much the Giants QB and appears to have considerable support within the organization. and I'm just trying to figure out why.
I have also in fact not so much walked back the comment on Mahomes as clarified as I was kind of loosy-goosy with my tenses. The actual comment came in the context of saying that Jones would probably NEVER be as good as Mahomes, but with his combination of skills including size, arm talent and athleticism does have the the potential to be a difficult player to defend if surrounded by better talent. And if somebody wants to keep making big deal about it go for it!
In that context, one of the things I really try and focus on as an analyst is not so much what a player can't do, but ask what he can do and what he would bring to the team. And its going to be very interesting challenge for Jones this fall because my sense is that the Giants will likely be switching the focus of the offence from a run first-play action heavy scheme in which Jones' athleticism and run ability played a big part, to what I expect will be a more quick strike, get the ball in the hands of their playmakers passing offence and we will see if he can handle that. Time will tell.
Probably.
And people still somehow trust the evaluation skills of someone with that observation.
You ever hear of sarcasm? (He said sarcastically).
Just like the Giants.
Just a couple of comments. First I must admit I am unabashedly a Dan Jones fan because I am a NY Giants fan (and have been since 1958) and he's the NY Giants QB. If the Giants had in fact been able to trade for Drake Maye on Thursday and released DJ on Friday I would unabashedly be a Drake Maye fan.
However, as much as possible I try and keep my GBN analyst's hat and my Giants fan's hat separate. In fact I think people tend to confuse the fact that what I am ever really trying to do is analyze and explain what the Giants are doing and what the thinking is there rather than what I would do or prefer which I have almost never ever stated. And the last time I looked Jones is still very much the Giants QB and appears to have considerable support within the organization. and I'm just trying to figure out why.
I have also in fact not so much walked back the comment on Mahomes as clarified as I was kind of loosy-goosy with my tenses. The actual comment came in the context of saying that Jones would probably NEVER be as good as Mahomes, but with his combination of skills including size, arm talent and athleticism does have the the potential to be a difficult player to defend if surrounded by better talent. And if somebody wants to keep making big deal about it go for it!
In that context, one of the things I really try and focus on as an analyst is not so much what a player can't do, but ask what he can do and what he would bring to the team. And its going to be very interesting challenge for Jones this fall because my sense is that the Giants will likely be switching the focus of the offence from a run first-play action heavy scheme in which Jones' athleticism and run ability played a big part, to what I expect will be a more quick strike, get the ball in the hands of their playmakers passing offence and we will see if he can handle that. Time will tell.
and “I am trying to figure out why”.
Not running with the owner mandate as a reason but asking what you might be missing
This +10000000
That is a sign of Wisdom.
And there aren't enough bad things that can happen to Eisen's Jets.
Ignore ALL OF THE REPORTING
Everything they did was to secure the WR they wanted.
The executed this plan to perfection.
It is a sign the right team is in place.
And then we have the BBI idiots
The Giants did not do what I WANTED.
Therefore
The Giants must be stupid
And the Fans are now doomed
The people that disagree
The losing is their fault.
thank you for posting.
I can’t stop laughing this week.
It almost as good as winning the lottery.
Just a couple of comments. First I must admit I am unabashedly a Dan Jones fan because I am a NY Giants fan (and have been since 1958) and he's the NY Giants QB. If the Giants had in fact been able to trade for Drake Maye on Thursday and released DJ on Friday I would unabashedly be a Drake Maye fan.
However, as much as possible I try and keep my GBN analyst's hat and my Giants fan's hat separate. In fact I think people tend to confuse the fact that what I am ever really trying to do is analyze and explain what the Giants are doing and what the thinking is there rather than what I would do or prefer which I have almost never ever stated. And the last time I looked Jones is still very much the Giants QB and appears to have considerable support within the organization. and I'm just trying to figure out why.
I have also in fact not so much walked back the comment on Mahomes as clarified as I was kind of loosy-goosy with my tenses. The actual comment came in the context of saying that Jones would probably NEVER be as good as Mahomes, but with his combination of skills including size, arm talent and athleticism does have the the potential to be a difficult player to defend if surrounded by better talent. And if somebody wants to keep making big deal about it go for it!
In that context, one of the things I really try and focus on as an analyst is not so much what a player can't do, but ask what he can do and what he would bring to the team. And its going to be very interesting challenge for Jones this fall because my sense is that the Giants will likely be switching the focus of the offence from a run first-play action heavy scheme in which Jones' athleticism and run ability played a big part, to what I expect will be a more quick strike, get the ball in the hands of their playmakers passing offence and we will see if he can handle that. Time will tell.
Im a fan of yours and I am excited to see what Dannygameballs can do with this squad... He took a much lesser talented one to the playoffs -on the road - and Won. So unless you want to compare talent of each team -id say this one is light years different and if Gameballs can get a little bit comfortable with his newly rebuilt OLine -its going to be fun watching them play.
Ignore ALL OF THE REPORTING
Everything they did was to secure the WR they wanted.
The executed this plan to perfection.
It is a sign the right team is in place.
And then we have the BBI idiots
The Giants did not do what I WANTED.
Therefore
The Giants must be stupid
And the Fans are now doomed
The people that disagree
The losing is their fault.
thank you for posting.
I can’t stop laughing this week.
It almost as good as winning the lottery.
Why can't we say what is obvious. The Giants preferred to have one of the top-3 QBs: Williams, Daniels, Maye. They weren't available and we got a great WR prospect. Why do we always have to dance around the truth because people can't handle the implication that Daniel Jones is bad and the Giants want to move on from him.
Watching “Dannygameballs” bumble his way through trying to play QB has been about as “fun” as having a rusty nail stuck in your eye. But yeah, this year will be different!
Unbelievable
It almost as good as winning the lottery.
The amount of misery that it must take in order to become someone who takes joy in the ineptitude of their so-called favorite team, and even more joy in the frustration of their fellow fans is a frightening thought.
Get that tattooed on your leg right next to your fortune cookie quote on wisdom.
And the pretense that the Giants will pass the ball very well with DJ still in the saddle, and that Ojulari should be considered a key contributor to one of the best young pass rush groups in the league are reaches to say the least.
Which is worse, being the 6th worst team in 2023 or being tied for 15th best team in 2024?