Mina knows her football. And she’s easy on the eyes.
And she’s 100% right about Jones’ ‘22 season deserving a ‘side eye’ considering he didn’t push the ball down the field and it was-my words, not hers-a lot of smoke and mirrors.
Mina knows her football. And she’s easy on the eyes.
And she’s 100% right about Jones’ ‘22 season deserving a ‘side eye’ considering he didn’t push the ball down the field and it was-my words, not hers-a lot of smoke and mirrors.
was right on Daniel Jones from the beginning. People here didn't like it, but she was 100 percent correct when she mocked the pick. Nothing will get better for this franchise until he's replaced.
but I don't agree with the pundits who say the Giants don't have enough on offense other than QB.
You add Nabers to Hyatt, Robinson, and Slayton and that is a completely different group. I also think both Isaiah's are more than fine as 5th and 6th WRs. Robinson was amazing last year considering he was coming off a late season ACL. If Hyatt becomes what I think he will become, look out.
What sucks is Waller. If he was healthy physically and mentally, this offense could be really good. That's why the Theo Johnson was an important pick, but that guy is a rookie who needs work.
I think the RBs will be fine. The OL has options now if Neal falters.
but I don't agree with the pundits who say the Giants don't have enough on offense other than QB.
You add Nabers to Hyatt, Robinson, and Slayton and that is a completely different group. I also think both Isaiah's are more than fine as 5th and 6th WRs. Robinson was amazing last year considering he was coming off a late season ACL. If Hyatt becomes what I think he will become, look out.
What sucks is Waller. If he was healthy physically and mentally, this offense could be really good. That's why the Theo Johnson was an important pick, but that guy is a rookie who needs work.
I think the RBs will be fine. The OL has options now if Neal falters.
I 100% agree. A lot will depend on how the OL performs, of course, but I'd be very surprised if there isn't significant improvement there. As I've said repeatedly, we were told that Jones had no more excuses after he signed his big contract, but that lasted about 5 minutes into the opener. This time, there are no more excuses. If he doesn't perform, it's 100% on him.
but I don't agree with the pundits who say the Giants don't have enough on offense other than QB.
You add Nabers to Hyatt, Robinson, and Slayton and that is a completely different group. I also think both Isaiah's are more than fine as 5th and 6th WRs. Robinson was amazing last year considering he was coming off a late season ACL. If Hyatt becomes what I think he will become, look out.
What sucks is Waller. If he was healthy physically and mentally, this offense could be really good. That's why the Theo Johnson was an important pick, but that guy is a rookie who needs work.
I think the RBs will be fine. The OL has options now if Neal falters.
is no comparison with the 2022 receivers and the 2024 receivers. Richie James was Jones' leading receiver in 2022.
Jones doesn't lift receivers. Every accomplished WR got trashed by Jones fans after they failed to meet expectations, including Barkley. Great receiving season under Eli. When Jones became starter suddenly we were told Barkley can't catch.
What's to talk about? The Giants have a top tier qb, and now they
have wr's who can separation and catch, if the oline can hold up their end Daniel Jones will lead the Giants to 10 wins. If the Giants defense can protect leads late in games the Giants may win more than 10 games.
Mina knows her football. And she’s easy on the eyes.
And she’s 100% right about Jones’ ‘22 season deserving a ‘side eye’ considering he didn’t push the ball down the field and it was-my words, not hers-a lot of smoke and mirrors.
So the one question her and posters like you need to answer is who was he going to push the ball down the field to? The leading receiver we had on the team that year wasn't even on the roster for the first few games of the year.
was open all the time and Jones was throwing to covered short routes instead. The Giants somehow completed a bunch of passes down the field with Tyrod Taylor.
but I don't agree with the pundits who say the Giants don't have enough on offense other than QB.
You add Nabers to Hyatt, Robinson, and Slayton and that is a completely different group. I also think both Isaiah's are more than fine as 5th and 6th WRs. Robinson was amazing last year considering he was coming off a late season ACL. If Hyatt becomes what I think he will become, look out.
What sucks is Waller. If he was healthy physically and mentally, this offense could be really good. That's why the Theo Johnson was an important pick, but that guy is a rookie who needs work.
I think the RBs will be fine. The OL has options now if Neal falters.
With a good QB this roster could be as good as the Texans or better imo
but I don't agree with the pundits who say the Giants don't have enough on offense other than QB.
You add Nabers to Hyatt, Robinson, and Slayton and that is a completely different group. I also think both Isaiah's are more than fine as 5th and 6th WRs. Robinson was amazing last year considering he was coming off a late season ACL. If Hyatt becomes what I think he will become, look out.
What sucks is Waller. If he was healthy physically and mentally, this offense could be really good. That's why the Theo Johnson was an important pick, but that guy is a rookie who needs work.
I think the RBs will be fine. The OL has options now if Neal falters.
The problem is the same as before though. Opposing defenses can easily bottle us up and pressure DJ if he can't make throws downfield. I think the entire season will revolve around that.
RE: What's to talk about? The Giants have a top tier qb, and now they
have wr's who can separation and catch, if the oline can hold up their end Daniel Jones will lead the Giants to 10 wins. If the Giants defense can protect leads late in games the Giants may win more than 10 games.
is push the ball down the field because of his strong arm.
That's why I think he was brought in.
1. to be a good backup
2. to push Jones and start if he's the better option or Jones isn't healthy to start.
Mina Kimes: "...2022 was a bumper bowling offense..."
👏
What does that mean, they should have taken more downfield shots to David Sills and Marcus Johnson?
No, it means the offense was basically a college or even high school level system based on the rpo and easy one read throws. Those were the bumpers. When Daboll tried to take the bumpers off, DJ failed. He needs to have a quicker mind to scan the field and make sound decisions. He's had this issue for his entire football career from what I can tell (hence not getting any offers for cfb and having this same issue in his scouting reports for the pros).
but the offense can be heading in the right direction based on ifs. If Naber doesn't bust. If Hyatt grows in his second year. If the new o-line coach and FA additions actually improve to average. If Bellinger returns to pre-eye injury and Theo develops. If one of the young RB's emerge alongside Singletary.
That's a lot of ifs that haven't gone in the Giants favor in years. QB is the biggest pain point and the best thing that can happen to the team is if Lock becomes this year's Geno Smith or Jones relearns how to throw the deep ball like he did his rookie season. I'm very concerned about Jones' losing some of his running ability from the injury so it's even more important he stops being gun-shy.
With Nabers, Hyatt and Slayton the offense is being built to take shots down the field.
The problem is the same as before though. Opposing defenses can easily bottle us up and pressure DJ if he can't make throws downfield. I think the entire season will revolve around that.
I mostly agree. Defensive coordinators will/should absolutely force Jones to beat them with his arm. Again.
That's exactly what we saw in 2023. As we heard from Devon Witherspoon, teams keyed on that.
Outside his second half in Phoenix, and even when the OL held up their end of the bargain, Jones regressed back to his pre-2022 days.
Regardless, I'm not buying this Lock threat. It seems the media is in a rut with predicting what NYG is going to do.
Jones is being paid to be a difference maker. There is NFW Lock is starting unless...
"Jones can't tie his own shoelaces" contingent is as equally delusional as the DJFC.
For $47M I'm expecting him to lead an offense that scores 25 PPG and a team that wins 10+ games. Is that fair?
What they are paying him right now is immaterial. They screwed up. The know they screwed up. They wouldn't give him the same contract today.
But he's not Mac Jones or Zach Wilson. Hell, listening to some Giants fans, Tommy Maddox was better.
My biggest worries this year are (1) him getting hurt again (injury clause) and his head (he actually may be broken at this point). But he still can be a mid-tier QB.
They are going to replace him, but the pendulum has swung so far to the other side on Jones that it's getting ridiculous.
What pendulum? I've been consistent on what Jones is since 2020. The Giants did screw up. Whether they know it is still up for debate considering their current situation.
I don't think this year is a referendum on Jones. I think that's open and shut at this point. I think this year is a referendum on Schoen and Daboll. I think it's fair, given where they are in their team build, to expect 10 wins and an productive offense.
become the personification of the issues many have had with the franchise for the past 10 years and that has really messed with having a fair-minded assessment of him. I include myself in this. With Jones you can point to cherry picking results, over valuing your own assets/overblown loyalty, late course correction, and drawing incorrect conclusions based on similar past events (Simms was hurt early on, Nobody believed in Eli early on, etc). All things that have bit us.
Not to defend Jones on his overall play but state facts - 2022 NY Giants WR
Ritchie James 46% snap counts
Kenny Golliday 23% snap counts
Isaiah Hdgins 37% snap counts
S. Sheppard 15% snap counts
David Sills 24% snap counts
Wan Dale 20% snap counts
Slayton 62% snap counts
Marcu Johnson 27% snap counts
this is the epitome of a No 3 and a bunch of guys who on any other teams are getting no snaps if they are even active
This is truly an epically bad WR roster that said QB won a playoff game with
Slayton on any good team is likely their 4 and here is the 1 - just sad
Not that it's a good bunch, but Slayton is so underrated here. Name all those teams that he would be a number 4 on. He'd be the #3 for all the teams with good receiver cores that I can think of: Eagles, Vikings (since their #3 went to NE), 49ers until they drafted Pearsall...i can't think of what team he would be a #4 on. He's a #3 or #2 for all the teams I can think of.
What pendulum? I've been consistent on what Jones is since 2020. The Giants did screw up. Whether they know it is still up for debate considering their current situation.
I don't think this year is a referendum on Jones. I think that's open and shut at this point. I think this year is a referendum on Schoen and Daboll. I think it's fair, given where they are in their team build, to expect 10 wins and an productive offense.
That's not unreasonable, is it?
I'm not sure why you are not following me on this.
You've said for years that Jones sucks. We all get that. But the average fan has now shifted from "Jones can be good" to "Jones is the anti-Christ."
10 wins and a productive offense? That depends on the play of the QB. Right now, it appears they have a QB problem. Your answer was to draft any QB. They didn't agree.
RE: What's to talk about? The Giants have a top tier qb, and now they
have wr's who can separation and catch, if the oline can hold up their end Daniel Jones will lead the Giants to 10 wins. If the Giants defense can protect leads late in games the Giants may win more than 10 games.
I really wish you could produce hard, definitive, and strong evidence that Daniel Jones is a top-tier quarterback. Please convince us.
What pendulum? I've been consistent on what Jones is since 2020. The Giants did screw up. Whether they know it is still up for debate considering their current situation.
I don't think this year is a referendum on Jones. I think that's open and shut at this point. I think this year is a referendum on Schoen and Daboll. I think it's fair, given where they are in their team build, to expect 10 wins and an productive offense.
That's not unreasonable, is it?
Mara has basically said with his own words he had a heavy hand in all this DJ contract-quagmire situation.
"Jones can't tie his own shoelaces" contingent is as equally delusional as the DJFC.
For $47M I'm expecting him to lead an offense that scores 25 PPG and a team that wins 10+ games. Is that fair?
What QB scores 25 points per game through the 1st 9 games of the season last year? Serious question.
Rephrasing: What QB scores 25 points per game for the Giants through the 1st 9 games of the season last year? Serious question.
He's saying this year with Nabers and all the vet signings. And it's true, he should put up or shut up.
Well, duh. But ok, for laughs... let's say Nabors was on the squad through the 1st 9 games last year. Rest of the roster (AND OL) is the same. What QB is scoring 25 pts per game?
I'm not sure why you are not following me on this.
You've said for years that Jones sucks. We all get that. But the average fan has now shifted from "Jones can be good" to "Jones is the anti-Christ."
10 wins and a productive offense? That depends on the play of the QB. Right now, it appears they have a QB problem. Your answer was to draft any QB. They didn't agree.
You were swinging a pretty big stick pre-draft crushing Jones and his loyalists regularly.
What pendulum? I've been consistent on what Jones is since 2020. The Giants did screw up. Whether they know it is still up for debate considering their current situation.
I don't think this year is a referendum on Jones. I think that's open and shut at this point. I think this year is a referendum on Schoen and Daboll. I think it's fair, given where they are in their team build, to expect 10 wins and an productive offense.
That's not unreasonable, is it?
I'm not sure why you are not following me on this.
You've said for years that Jones sucks. We all get that. But the average fan has now shifted from "Jones can be good" to "Jones is the anti-Christ."
10 wins and a productive offense? That depends on the play of the QB. Right now, it appears they have a QB problem. Your answer was to draft any QB. They didn't agree.
Well to be fair the longer the guy is terrible, the more the fanbase is going to shift to accept the fact he's terrible.
Daniel Jones has broken some brains here.
I get that for us Giants fans this is the most optimistic part of the calendar year, before they start playing football and ruin it.
What pendulum? I've been consistent on what Jones is since 2020. The Giants did screw up. Whether they know it is still up for debate considering their current situation.
I don't think this year is a referendum on Jones. I think that's open and shut at this point. I think this year is a referendum on Schoen and Daboll. I think it's fair, given where they are in their team build, to expect 10 wins and an productive offense.
That's not unreasonable, is it?
I'm not sure why you are not following me on this.
You've said for years that Jones sucks. We all get that. But the average fan has now shifted from "Jones can be good" to "Jones is the anti-Christ."
10 wins and a productive offense? That depends on the play of the QB. Right now, it appears they have a QB problem. Your answer was to draft any QB. They didn't agree.
Well to be fair the longer the guy is terrible, the more the fanbase is going to shift to accept the fact he's terrible.
Daniel Jones has broken some brains here.
I get that for us Giants fans this is the most optimistic part of the calendar year, before they start playing football and ruin it.
Broken brains???
Pot calling kettle black
Anybody who spends as much time on a message board as you do….. LITERALLY saying the exact same thing day after day after day is the clearest definition of having a broken brain
You don’t like him….that’s fine
But take a look in the mirror at your behavior before you judge others
I'm not sure why you are not following me on this.
You've said for years that Jones sucks. We all get that. But the average fan has now shifted from "Jones can be good" to "Jones is the anti-Christ."
10 wins and a productive offense? That depends on the play of the QB. Right now, it appears they have a QB problem. Your answer was to draft any QB. They didn't agree.
You were swinging a pretty big stick pre-draft crushing Jones and his loyalists regularly.
What's changed since the draft?
My stance hasn't changed. I don't think the Giants can win a Super Bowl with Daniel Jones. I'm not even sure they can win the NFC East with Daniel Jones.
But's not Mac Jones or Zach Wilson. If you protect him and give him decent receivers, he can function as a mid-tier QB. Giants need better. Plus, Jones now has serious injury concerns. Plus, as I have said, I firmly believe you can "break" a QB mentally. And Jones may be in that area.
I can see Daniel Jones losing his job to Drew Lock very easily.
However, if things break right, I can easily see him having a good season (for him).
Worst thing that can happen is we open with Dallas again and all hell breaks lose. Best thing is if the team manages to start the year 3-1 or even 2-2 and gets its footing.
I can see Daniel Jones losing his job to Drew Lock very easily.
However, if things break right, I can easily see him having a good season (for him).
Worst thing that can happen is we open with Dallas again and all hell breaks lose. Best thing is if the team manages to start the year 3-1 or even 2-2 and gets its footing.
You know Jerry Jones is going to lobby for the Giants Week 1 for that reason and the NFL will give in to him
I can see Daniel Jones losing his job to Drew Lock very easily.
However, if things break right, I can easily see him having a good season (for him).
Worst thing that can happen is we open with Dallas again and all hell breaks lose. Best thing is if the team manages to start the year 3-1 or even 2-2 and gets its footing.
You know Jerry Jones is going to lobby for the Giants Week 1 for that reason and the NFL will give in to him
Not to defend Jones on his overall play but state facts - 2022 NY Giants WR
Ritchie James 46% snap counts
Kenny Golliday 23% snap counts
Isaiah Hdgins 37% snap counts
S. Sheppard 15% snap counts
David Sills 24% snap counts
Wan Dale 20% snap counts
Slayton 62% snap counts
Marcu Johnson 27% snap counts
this is the epitome of a No 3 and a bunch of guys who on any other teams are getting no snaps if they are even active
This is truly an epically bad WR roster that said QB won a playoff game with
Slayton on any good team is likely their 4 and here is the 1 - just sad
Not that it's a good bunch, but Slayton is so underrated here. Name all those teams that he would be a number 4 on. He'd be the #3 for all the teams with good receiver cores that I can think of: Eagles, Vikings (since their #3 went to NE), 49ers until they drafted Pearsall...i can't think of what team he would be a #4 on. He's a #3 or #2 for all the teams I can think of.
Not to defend Jones on his overall play but state facts - 2022 NY Giants WR
Ritchie James 46% snap counts
Kenny Golliday 23% snap counts
Isaiah Hdgins 37% snap counts
S. Sheppard 15% snap counts
David Sills 24% snap counts
Wan Dale 20% snap counts
Slayton 62% snap counts
Marcu Johnson 27% snap counts
this is the epitome of a No 3 and a bunch of guys who on any other teams are getting no snaps if they are even active
This is truly an epically bad WR roster that said QB won a playoff game with
Slayton on any good team is likely their 4 and here is the 1 - just sad
+1 Preach... BBI is fucking delusional
So you think a front office that clearly lacks for scouting acumen when evaluating offensive skill position players somehow miraculously got their QB evaluation correct?
was open all the time and Jones was throwing to covered short routes instead. The Giants somehow completed a bunch of passes down the field with Tyrod Taylor.
- Veteran highly paid QB
- Veteran highly paid left tackle
- Highly drafted third year right tackle
- Highly drafted explosive WR
- Highly paid edge rusher
- Highly drafted second edge rusher
- Highly paid nose tackle
- Highly drafted CB
They have all these things and we aren't expecting the playoffs? Do we see the problem here?
I expect playoffs. If the OL has any semblance of even being mediocre (well and Daniel Jones isn't fucking broken at this point), why wouldn't I at least expect the Giants to repeat 2022? And you never answered my question?
He is probably a #3 on most teams, and a #2 on some.. And when he's going well he can crack the top 30. You guys want to bash him because Jones can't raise him to his potential, just as Jones failed with every other receiver, many of them who were established pros on other teams. To say Slayton is no better than any team's number 4 is just slander in service of trying to make Jones sound better than he is. I am sorry you are so emotional about a lousy player, but try not to slag other players while you ineffectively make your case for Daniel Jones.
- Veteran highly paid QB
- Veteran highly paid left tackle
- Highly drafted third year right tackle
- Highly drafted explosive WR
- Highly paid edge rusher
- Highly drafted second edge rusher
- Highly paid nose tackle
- Highly drafted CB
They have all these things and we aren't expecting the playoffs? Do we see the problem here?
I expect playoffs. If the OL has any semblance of even being mediocre (well and Daniel Jones isn't fucking broken at this point), why wouldn't I at least expect the Giants to repeat 2022? And you never answered my question?
So if Jones fails it isn't his fault... he's broken.. do you hear yourself? Why can't we admit he has failed to reach any metrics we would associate with a quality QB.
- Veteran highly paid QB
- Veteran highly paid left tackle
- Highly drafted third year right tackle
- Highly drafted explosive WR
- Highly paid edge rusher
- Highly drafted second edge rusher
- Highly paid nose tackle
- Highly drafted CB
They have all these things and we aren't expecting the playoffs? Do we see the problem here?
I expect playoffs. If the OL has any semblance of even being mediocre (well and Daniel Jones isn't fucking broken at this point), why wouldn't I at least expect the Giants to repeat 2022? And you never answered my question?
You're not seriously contending that the 2022 roster was the product of the current regime, are you?
I'm seriously contending that whatever people believe about the pluses and minuses of that roster, it was put together by the same people that also chose the 2022 QB.
Whether you want to put that on Schoen/Daboll, Gettleman/Judge, or some combination thereof, there's no reason to make a distinction between Jones and the WR corps, strictly from an evaluation standpoint. It's cognitive dissonance in its simplest form to suggest otherwise, IMO.
- Veteran highly paid QB
- Veteran highly paid left tackle
- Highly drafted third year right tackle
- Highly drafted explosive WR
- Highly paid edge rusher
- Highly drafted second edge rusher
- Highly paid nose tackle
- Highly drafted CB
They have all these things and we aren't expecting the playoffs? Do we see the problem here?
But you're not bashing Jones.
We all know we have a QB issue.
Why don't you expect a playoff appearance? This team is in a window to compete. Right now.
Joe Schoen is trying to have it both ways and I think it is fair to question.
After giving Jones a stupid contract he then said he spent too much at this stage of the rebuild. Then he proceeded to spend draft capital (he might have used on a QB) and a lot of money on Burns, and we got a WR who is useful only if you have a QB. It doesn't seem like Schoen is following a coherent plan. The Vikings are following a more coherent plan, and they should be behind us in the rebuild.
- Veteran highly paid QB
- Veteran highly paid left tackle
- Highly drafted third year right tackle
- Highly drafted explosive WR
- Highly paid edge rusher
- Highly drafted second edge rusher
- Highly paid nose tackle
- Highly drafted CB
They have all these things and we aren't expecting the playoffs? Do we see the problem here?
I expect playoffs. If the OL has any semblance of even being mediocre (well and Daniel Jones isn't fucking broken at this point), why wouldn't I at least expect the Giants to repeat 2022? And you never answered my question?
So if Jones fails it isn't his fault... he's broken.. do you hear yourself? Why can't we admit he has failed to reach any metrics we would associate with a quality QB.
OMG, seriously. Just stop already. I would have been fine, FINE if we drafted another QB. I don't give a shit who is behind center for the Giants. But I root for who's there to succeed. BUT I ROOT FOR WHO IS THEREE TO SUCCEED.
I already posted this in the Garofalo thread. Holy shit already.
You see how much work the Giants did scouting ALL of these QBs no? I sure did.
Isn't it clear at this point that this regime sees how far behind their roster - their WHOLE FUCKING ROSTER - is than Philly/Dallas? Isn't it clear that they are trying to build this team and they felt the best way to do it was to add one of the highest graded passing playmakers in years in a passing league? And for fuck's sake, isn't it clear that they don't agree with these dopey assessments from the BBI peanut gallery that Daniel Jones is the worst fucking QB in the league??
They made their decision to build the team. We don't even know how much ceiling if any that Jones has going forward (or how much Shane and Davoli think). But they have already proven that they can win with him with a terrible roster. That is WHY they gave him the contract. It's not some fucking conspiracy with Mara. They scouted the QBs and they felt it was best to pass on this 2024 draft crop (at least if they couldn't get one of Williams, Daniels, Maye). They are building the team AS THEY SHOULD WANT TO DO and will roll with the guy that they already decided that they liked in Jones. And I am quite sure no matter how next year goes to be scouting the shit out of next year's QB crop (AS THEY SHOULD).
They may be wrong, regimes are wrong ALL the time and get replaced. But it's pretty clear how they feel at this point.
And to Terps I asked you What QB scores 25 points per game for the Giants through the 1st 9 games of the season last year?
I can see Daniel Jones losing his job to Drew Lock very easily.
However, if things break right, I can easily see him having a good season (for him).
Worst thing that can happen is we open with Dallas again and all hell breaks lose. Best thing is if the team manages to start the year 3-1 or even 2-2 and gets its footing.
Drew Lock has 5,000 yards passing in 28 games LOL. He's horrible.
- Veteran highly paid QB
- Veteran highly paid left tackle
- Highly drafted third year right tackle
- Highly drafted explosive WR
- Highly paid edge rusher
- Highly drafted second edge rusher
- Highly paid nose tackle
- Highly drafted CB
They have all these things and we aren't expecting the playoffs? Do we see the problem here?
I expect playoffs. If the OL has any semblance of even being mediocre (well and Daniel Jones isn't fucking broken at this point), why wouldn't I at least expect the Giants to repeat 2022? And you never answered my question?
So if Jones fails it isn't his fault... he's broken.. do you hear yourself? Why can't we admit he has failed to reach any metrics we would associate with a quality QB.
OMG, seriously. Just stop already. I would have been fine, FINE if we drafted another QB. I don't give a shit who is behind center for the Giants. But I root for who's there to succeed. BUT I ROOT FOR WHO IS THEREE TO SUCCEED.
I already posted this in the Garofalo thread. Holy shit already.
You see how much work the Giants did scouting ALL of these QBs no? I sure did.
Isn't it clear at this point that this regime sees how far behind their roster - their WHOLE FUCKING ROSTER - is than Philly/Dallas? Isn't it clear that they are trying to build this team and they felt the best way to do it was to add one of the highest graded passing playmakers in years in a passing league? And for fuck's sake, isn't it clear that they don't agree with these dopey assessments from the BBI peanut gallery that Daniel Jones is the worst fucking QB in the league??
They made their decision to build the team. We don't even know how much ceiling if any that Jones has going forward (or how much Shane and Davoli think). But they have already proven that they can win with him with a terrible roster. That is WHY they gave him the contract. It's not some fucking conspiracy with Mara. They scouted the QBs and they felt it was best to pass on this 2024 draft crop (at least if they couldn't get one of Williams, Daniels, Maye). They are building the team AS THEY SHOULD WANT TO DO and will roll with the guy that they already decided that they liked in Jones. And I am quite sure no matter how next year goes to be scouting the shit out of next year's QB crop (AS THEY SHOULD).
They may be wrong, regimes are wrong ALL the time and get replaced. But it's pretty clear how they feel at this point.
And to Terps I asked you What QB scores 25 points per game for the Giants through the 1st 9 games of the season last year?
I have a thought for you. You may find when they replace the QB with a good starter, this team and the roster is not as far away as you think. A good QB is worth +5 to 7 points vs the spread. Aaron Rodgers at his peak was worth +10 points. Daniel Jones is probably worth -2 points. This team can never get going because they don't have an answer at the most important position. Adding a top WR isn't worth as much as you think, probably less than +2 points per game. This team will never look functional with such poor QB play.
plays well and cements himself here, Jones is gone anyway, and they will re-sign Lock to go forward with. This isn't rocket science.
The reality, they will BOTH be gone after this season.
Have you seen Lock's career stats? He's not winning anything...
You are badly misrepresenting numbers to make Lock look worse. And I would normally just ignore your post, but I'm pretty sure you would skew you interpretation of data in Jones' favor to make the gap between them look ludicrous.
Your handling of the data is so skewed I wonder if you are stupid or dishonest. I'm guessing the latter, but I'm not sure.
I have a thought for you. You may find when they replace the QB with a good starter, this team and the roster is not as far away as you think. A good QB is worth +5 to 7 points vs the spread. Aaron Rodgers at his peak was worth +10 points. Daniel Jones is probably worth -2 points. This team can never get going because they don't have an answer at the most important position. Adding a top WR isn't worth as much as you think, probably less than +2 points per game. This team will never look functional with such poor QB play.
OK then answer my question, which no one seems to want to try an answer. DJ is a middle of the road NFL QB, no more no less. In MY OPINION.
SO... WHAT QB scores 25 pts per game with the Giants through the 1st 9 games of last year?
Not to defend Jones on his overall play but state facts - 2022 NY Giants WR
Ritchie James 46% snap counts
Kenny Golliday 23% snap counts
Isaiah Hdgins 37% snap counts
S. Sheppard 15% snap counts
David Sills 24% snap counts
Wan Dale 20% snap counts
Slayton 62% snap counts
Marcu Johnson 27% snap counts
this is the epitome of a No 3 and a bunch of guys who on any other teams are getting no snaps if they are even active
This is truly an epically bad WR roster that said QB won a playoff game with
Slayton on any good team is likely their 4 and here is the 1 - just sad
Not that it's a good bunch, but Slayton is so underrated here. Name all those teams that he would be a number 4 on. He'd be the #3 for all the teams with good receiver cores that I can think of: Eagles, Vikings (since their #3 went to NE), 49ers until they drafted Pearsall...i can't think of what team he would be a #4 on. He's a #3 or #2 for all the teams I can think of.
He would not have been ahead of Jauan Jennings for SF and arguably not Ronnie Bell, either.
Eagles...Brown, Smith, and take your pick, Quez Watkins, Julio, Zaccheus. Not not saying he's definitively behind that whole group but he isn't definitively ahead of any of them and certainly not Jones and probably ot Watkins.
Just a hard disagree. He's a 4 on a team with a good receiver room. Not a 3.
I have a thought for you. You may find when they replace the QB with a good starter, this team and the roster is not as far away as you think. A good QB is worth +5 to 7 points vs the spread. Aaron Rodgers at his peak was worth +10 points. Daniel Jones is probably worth -2 points. This team can never get going because they don't have an answer at the most important position. Adding a top WR isn't worth as much as you think, probably less than +2 points per game. This team will never look functional with such poor QB play.
OK then answer my question, which no one seems to want to try an answer. DJ is a middle of the road NFL QB, no more no less. In MY OPINION.
SO... WHAT QB scores 25 pts per game with the Giants through the 1st 9 games of last year?
This is an issue with this discussion. Jones is not a middle of the road QB. He is a very bottom tier QB, possibly not even a starter in this league. But at best he is in the tier where he gets cycled with the Trubiskys and Brissets. I would 100% rather have Brisset than Daniel Jones. Jones got clearly outplayed by Tyrod Taylor last season. It wasn't close. Taylor is a fit for Daboll's system - which is not exotic. It just requires reading the field and throwing vertically. Jones can't do that with enough consistency to be effective.
I get what both GT & Eric are saying and I think the truth probably lies in the middle. I think Terps is referring to the money DJ is making, the type of money you pay an elite QB when you should be competing year in, year out for a Lombardi. And Eric is right that a lot of young guys are locked in for awhile so it isn’t like we’re going all for one last bite of the apple like the 21 Rams.
I don't see what's so egregious about saying that.
This is a very young football team. And the core group is under contract for several years.
What do you want? An old football team?
The Packers were the youngest team in the league last season. How did they do?
For some reason this Schoen regime appears to have the wrong priorities. They are not aggressively coming up with QB options. They should release Daniel Jones when he is medically cleared, and they should have come out of the draft with some QB, whether a top-6 guy or a developmental guy. If you strike gold at QB the team takes a monumental step up. Malik Nabers, as good as he is, and I love him, is window dressing by comparison.
Let’s forget who the QB has been for a moment. DJ is so polarizing
it’s been impossible to have a real football conversation. Everyone has high standards for QB play… what that should look like and what’s needed to contend for championships. But why can’t we have the same expectations and standards for the other position groups on this team?!
The Giants for a better part of a decade or more has had the WORST or bottom 5 WRs, TEs and OL. It’s been that bad. But I don’t hear nearly the disgust and energy given to that. It’s about all DJ and that to me is not the end all be all.
We simply can’t compete for championships with the talent gap or deficit that was on this roster across the board. So FINALLY this year they’ve been a real plan to address that. Waller was a failed attempt. Parris Campbell was a swing and miss.
But to draft Nabers, a true #1 type WR, and sign an ER with Burns pedigree are attempts to close that gap. Signing 2 professional and ascending guards to help fortify the OL are good starts to watching functional damn football.
Some of the best QBs have had true difference makers at wideout but the Giants who have DJ (who many would say is far less talented than Allen, Herbert, Mahomes, Burrow, etc) is running out there with David Sills, Richie James, Hodgins and Marcus Johnson etc.? So say what you want, but to make the playoffs in 2022 says a lot about how much DJ and Barkley elevated that team on offense. To suggest anything else is nonsense. That was a very subpar WR/TE/OL group.
Allen had Diggs. Hurts has AJ and Devonta. Burrow has Chase and Higgins. Mahomes had Tyreek, has Kelce and now Worthy. Stafford has Kupp and Puka. Purdy has Deebo, Kittle and Aiyuk. Herbert had Allen and Williams. So it’s clear teams value providing weapons and talented players around their QBs.
Giants have failed at that by a lot. Period. Slayton has been his best WR and that’s not saying much. And the OL has been the bottom of the league as well.
So this year, DJ will have his best opportunity to show us through his performance and production what he can really do with a functional OL and group of really talented WRs. Let the chips fall where they may.
I don't see what's so egregious about saying that.
This is a very young football team. And the core group is under contract for several years.
What do you want? An old football team?
I agree, it's a young team. And I think they've done a good job moving money from dumb places (RB, S) to smart places (OL, DL). But they are now into big contacts at the most expensive places (QB, LT, edge)... That's a sign that it's time to get up and get going.
I'm not bashing Jones. We all know what he is. I'm making a point about where this team is in its build. If I didn't know anything about these players other than their ages, positions, and contracts, I'd say this is a team that's ready to make a push.
Why don't we feel like this team is ready to make a push? Why is the over/under at 6.5? Why are Mina Kimes and Field Yates so non-committal on whether they've done enough to improve?
My overall point is something is wrong. The timing, the alignment of this operation - it's not adding up.
and Banks said a playoff appearance is the goal of the front office. I don’t know if he’s just talking out of his ass but he believes playoffs should be the goal too. Brought up the blowout win against Philly as evidence they are closing the gap.
If you believe Jones is serviceable, the OL is improved and Burns/Nabers are impact additions, I don’t know why a 2022-type season is so outrageous.
If the three quarterbacks they passed on look like studs, you are right. If they don't, the Giants are right.
Taking a QB in round 5, 6, or 7 wasn't going to fix this.
I am sure at least one of Penix, Nix or McCarthy will be great. And I'd wager all three will be better pros than Jones.
As for the late round guys, I think it is worth taking a shot. Look at Brock Purdy. I don't think he is some rare phenomenon. The game is changing before our eyes. It is far more QB-centric than what we saw in the 80s, heck even from Eli's period, so different. With all these new systems and ways of attacking, it seems to be a lot easier for some QBs to come in and contribute at a high level. I do not think Stroud and Purdy will be the last we see of fast contributors. The Vikings get it. They wanted Maye but were ready to settle for Penix or McCarthy. If you have a void at QB, you must upgrade it immediately. It's foolish to wait around for years for just the "right" guy. Teams are on their 2nd and 3rd rebuilds.
Without Nabers, this doesn't look like the same team.
They are still in the process of rebuilding this roster.
The next move is obvious, and everyone here knows it.
The Giants could not have fixed everything in one offseason. They added 22 players. That's almost half the team.
Three years into a rebuild the attrition of the league already starts to become a factor. And who knows how long before that obvious next move even happens?
and Banks said a playoff appearance is the goal of the front office. I don’t know if he’s just talking out of his ass but he believes playoffs should be the goal too. Brought up the blowout win against Philly as evidence they are closing the gap.
If you believe Jones is serviceable, the OL is improved and Burns/Nabers are impact additions, I don’t know why a 2022-type season is so outrageous.
Nearly half the league makes a playoff appearance in a given year.
The gap is closing to Philly because they got worse, as evidenced by the fact that they got worked over by Baker Mayfield.
And again it brings up the question, if they’re eager to replace the QB who would appearing in the playoffs further that cause?
"Jones can't tie his own shoelaces" contingent is as equally delusional as the DJFC.
To be fair, Jones would be able to tie his own shoes just fine as long as he’s sitting in the perfect chair, the shoes fit just right and the laces are long enough to allow for some extra tugging. I’m not sure how anyone in the world could possibly tie their shoes without these things being ideal…
and Banks said a playoff appearance is the goal of the front office. I don’t know if he’s just talking out of his ass but he believes playoffs should be the goal too. Brought up the blowout win against Philly as evidence they are closing the gap.
If you believe Jones is serviceable, the OL is improved and Burns/Nabers are impact additions, I don’t know why a 2022-type season is so outrageous.
Nearly half the league makes a playoff appearance in a given year.
The gap is closing to Philly because they got worse, as evidenced by the fact that they got worked over by Baker Mayfield.
And again it brings up the question, if they’re eager to replace the QB who would appearing in the playoffs further that cause?
SF almost won a Super Bowl last year. And they were very much in contention to do the same the prior year. Do you think they wouldn't replace Brock Purdy? Do they NEED to? Maybe. But I'll take that kind of success all day long. ALL DAY LONG. Is anyone here now willing to argue Brock Purdy looks better than Daniel Jones on the Giants last year? I sure wouldn't.
was open all the time and Jones was throwing to covered short routes instead. The Giants somehow completed a bunch of passes down the field with Tyrod Taylor.
This is simply not true.. no one is open ALL the time... come on... seriously..
I would wager probably not and then that's where the fun begins.
And Terps is right, the window for the Giants winning the division alone, should be open right now. But because they very likely, almost certainly botched the QB decision, which is the most important and crucial piece, this window will likely be wasted.
Needing a full rebuild yet again, as the Giants have to weigh how much do they pay Thomas, Dex, Burns, Banks, KT, JMS and Nabers if he makes a 2nd contract (I doubt this for reasons).
and Banks said a playoff appearance is the goal of the front office. I don’t know if he’s just talking out of his ass but he believes playoffs should be the goal too. Brought up the blowout win against Philly as evidence they are closing the gap.
If you believe Jones is serviceable, the OL is improved and Burns/Nabers are impact additions, I don’t know why a 2022-type season is so outrageous.
Nearly half the league makes a playoff appearance in a given year.
The gap is closing to Philly because they got worse, as evidenced by the fact that they got worked over by Baker Mayfield.
And again it brings up the question, if they’re eager to replace the QB who would appearing in the playoffs further that cause?
SF almost won a Super Bowl last year. And they were very much in contention to do the same the prior year. Do you think they wouldn't replace Brock Purdy? Do they NEED to? Maybe. But I'll take that kind of success all day long. ALL DAY LONG. Is anyone here now willing to argue Brock Purdy looks better than Daniel Jones on the Giants last year? I sure wouldn't.
Sure. But taking Nabers over McCarthy makes sense. It wasn't some crazy, batshit dumb idea..
I don't disagree @ all. But it's going to fuck suck if JJM or Nixon or Penix becomes a stud & we got Nabers throwing his hands up in the air when DJ isn't getting him the ball, the latter scenario which I could 100% see this fall.
Sure. But taking Nabers over McCarthy makes sense. It wasn't some crazy, batshit dumb idea..
I don't disagree @ all. But it's going to fuck suck if JJM or Nixon or Penix becomes a stud & we got Nabers throwing his hands up in the air when DJ isn't getting him the ball, the latter scenario which I could 100% see this fall.
Or they don't, and Nabers becomes a continual All-Pro WR.
Perhaps, all TBD. If I had to put $ on it, I'd bet one of the three (JJM, Nix, or Penix) becomes an elite QB. & I think Nabers is going to be great. I just hope we get him a QB where his talent isn't wasted, which I fear might happen with Jones.
Regardless of what I think of him as a talent-not much-I think there's a legit chance he's just screwed up mentally from years of bad OL play, a lot like David Carr was after his time in Houston.
Simply "being better than Jones" isn't good enough for six, even if that were true.
If that's their approach why would they draft a QB next year? Their exposure to QB prospects figure to be less next year than it was this year. They'll still have Jones under contract, so why force it?
Simply "being better than Jones" isn't good enough for six, even if that were true.
If that's their approach why would they draft a QB next year? Their exposure to QB prospects figure to be less next year than it was this year. They'll still have Jones under contract, so why force it?
We don't know what the draft will look like next year. TBD.
because six QBs were taken this year, there won't be a lot of teams looking QB in round one next year. Giants, Raiders, maybe the Titans, possibly the Browns.
because six QBs were taken this year, there won't be a lot of teams looking QB in round one next year. Giants, Raiders, maybe the Titans, possibly the Browns.
You can't rule out the Cowboys, Seahawks, Jets, Bucs, and Steelers.
because six QBs were taken this year, there won't be a lot of teams looking QB in round one next year. Giants, Raiders, maybe the Titans, possibly the Browns.
Lots of eggs in one basket. I agree with what you said on that podcast - they had to get their QB this offseason or next. This offseason is gone.
Now you're talking about doing what so many said was so bad: forcing the QB in 2025.
1. Terps hates Daniel Jones
2. Anything current GM and coach do that doesn’t involve replacing Daniel Jones is completely stupid
3. Let’s only bringing up the 2023 season and not 2022, because hey only one of those seasons actually happened and it was definitely 2023 not 2022
4. Jones sucks
because six QBs were taken this year, there won't be a lot of teams looking QB in round one next year. Giants, Raiders, maybe the Titans, possibly the Browns.
Lots of eggs in one basket. I agree with what you said on that podcast - they had to get their QB this offseason or next. This offseason is gone.
Now you're talking about doing what so many said was so bad: forcing the QB in 2025.
So you would force one in 2024 so they didn’t have to in 2025? What if the one you forced this year turned into Josh Rosen?
because six QBs were taken this year, there won't be a lot of teams looking QB in round one next year. Giants, Raiders, maybe the Titans, possibly the Browns.
Lots of eggs in one basket. I agree with what you said on that podcast - they had to get their QB this offseason or next. This offseason is gone.
Now you're talking about doing what so many said was so bad: forcing the QB in 2025.
So you would force one in 2024 so they didn’t have to in 2025? What if the one you forced this year turned into Josh Rosen?
The Giants put themselves in this position by ignoring the position in the draft for years. Now they have no choice.
1. Terps hates Daniel Jones
2. Anything current GM and coach do that doesn’t involve replacing Daniel Jones is completely stupid
3. Let’s only bringing up the 2023 season and not 2022, because hey only one of those seasons actually happened and it was definitely 2023 not 2022
4. Jones sucks
Most games, Daniel will play a normal Daniel game - 200 yards on short, low risk throws, usually 1 TD. If we are playing a good team we will lose. If we are playing a mediocre team the outcome will be determined by turnovers and random events like missed FGs.
Outside of that He'll have 2 or 3 good games against bad teams and a few terrible games. We'll probably win 6 or 7 games.
Most games, Daniel will play a normal Daniel game - 200 yards on short, low risk throws, usually 1 TD. If we are playing a good team we will lose. If we are playing a mediocre team the outcome will be determined by turnovers and random events like missed FGs.
Outside of that He'll have 2 or 3 good games against bad teams and a few terrible games. We'll probably win 6 or 7 games.
Not so sure. Nabers can take a 5-yard pass and turn it into a 75 yard touchdown.
Listen, I can't move on from Jones soon enough. I'd drive up from NC tomorrow to help him move out of his apartment. But if he's starting, I hope he's looking to Nabers. All. The. Time. Nabers strikes me as Odell like...throw him a slant & he'll take it to the house. Fuck, that was pretty much our 2016 offensive gameplan.
because six QBs were taken this year, there won't be a lot of teams looking QB in round one next year. Giants, Raiders, maybe the Titans, possibly the Browns.
You can't rule out the Cowboys, Seahawks, Jets, Bucs, and Steelers.
Indeed. I feel like we keep saying this. NEXT year there won't be as much competition, but the season always raises questions and there will probably be a hard 4 teams and an addition 2 or 3 soft teams evaluating the position.
Listen, I can't move on from Jones soon enough. I'd drive up from NC tomorrow to help him move out of his apartment. But if he's starting, I hope he's looking to Nabers. All. The. Time. Nabers strikes me as Odell like...throw him a slant & he'll take it to the house. Fuck, that was pretty much our 2016 offensive gameplan.
So you would force one in 2024 so they didn’t have to in 2025? What if the one you forced this year turned into Josh Rosen?
What if the force ends up being Josh Allen?
I don't understand the never-ending Rosen counter. It's like Tourette Syndrome.
You/others act like Rosen was bad at UCLA. His senior year, while dealing with a concussion at one point, completed 63% of his passes, threw for 26TDs, and an 8.3 YPA. Sy was bullish pre-draft.
This sure-thing mentality is just bizarre.
Why is Nabers more of sure thing, btw? The bust rate for first round WRs is the highest of any position.
Listen, I can't move on from Jones soon enough. I'd drive up from NC tomorrow to help him move out of his apartment. But if he's starting, I hope he's looking to Nabers. All. The. Time. Nabers strikes me as Odell like...throw him a slant & he'll take it to the house. Fuck, that was pretty much our 2016 offensive gameplan.
Jone's will, if its the first read
Eli could hit downfield throws though, if DJ fails to do that again we are toast and I don't think Lock will get to start unless DJ is hurt.
the only way this plan really makes sense is if they believe in Jones to get his act together. If they don't, they have taken a colossal risk.
I said it last night on another thread. Jones was Plan B of this draft.
Plan A, if the rumors are accurate, was to grab the QB that was love at first sight.
If that failed, however, they were comfortable going with Jones. Schoen/Daboll probably convinced themselves going into the draft that with more resources they could easily get Jones back to V.2022. Thus, draft the stud WR prospect.
As the song goes, if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you are with...
So you would force one in 2024 so they didn’t have to in 2025? What if the one you forced this year turned into Josh Rosen?
What if the force ends up being Josh Allen?
I don't understand the never-ending Rosen counter. It's like Tourette Syndrome.
You/others act like Rosen was bad at UCLA. His senior year, while dealing with a concussion at one point, completed 63% of his passes, threw for 26TDs, and an 8.3 YPA. Sy was bullish pre-draft.
This sure-thing mentality is just bizarre.
Why is Nabers more of sure thing, btw? The bust rate for first round WRs is the highest of any position.
I used Josh Rosen because Go Terps has praised Arizona for going QB with the first round pick in consecutive years even though it has not resulted in much more success than the Giants have.
the only way this plan really makes sense is if they believe in Jones to get his act together. If they don't, they have taken a colossal risk.
I said it last night on another thread. Jones was Plan B of this draft.
Plan A, if the rumors are accurate, was to grab the QB that was love at first sight.
If that failed, however, they were comfortable going with Jones. Schoen/Daboll probably convinced themselves going into the draft that with more resources they could easily get Jones back to V.2022. Thus, draft the stud WR prospect.
As the song goes, if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you are with...
It wasn't full bloom love or Mara wouldn't approve of offering a legit package. Pick 6 and 2025 1st would never have cut it. We didn't even make an offer close to what Minnesota offered. I'm glad we didn't, but this idea that we did everything we could to get Maye is a joke.
RE: RE: RE: If you look at this truly objectively,
It wasn't full bloom love or Mara wouldn't approve of offering a legit package. Pick 6 and 2025 1st would never have cut it. We didn't even make an offer close to what Minnesota offered. I'm glad we didn't, but this idea that we did everything we could to get Maye is a joke.
It sounds more and more like Schoen was window shopping at the QB Store. He may have gone in to get a price check, but I think he left his wallet at home.
RE: RE: RE: RE: If you look at this truly objectively,
It wasn't full bloom love or Mara wouldn't approve of offering a legit package. Pick 6 and 2025 1st would never have cut it. We didn't even make an offer close to what Minnesota offered. I'm glad we didn't, but this idea that we did everything we could to get Maye is a joke.
It sounds more and more like Schoen was window shopping at the QB Store. He may have gone in to get a price check, but I think he left his wallet at home.
Terps, you make a lot of grandiose statements but have no idea if the Giants are going to be proven right or wrong about this QB class. They liked Williams and Maye the best.
If McCarthy turns into Joe Burrow then I think you can keep talking. But all of your posts amount to absolutely nothing. It is just pure conjecture.
I used Josh Rosen because Go Terps has praised Arizona for going QB with the first round pick in consecutive years even though it has not resulted in much more success than the Giants have.
Hahah good point. But but but, they have to keep taking swings!!
I used Josh Rosen because Go Terps has praised Arizona for going QB with the first round pick in consecutive years even though it has not resulted in much more success than the Giants have.
I would push back on this. Murray has produced 120 TDs in 5 years. Jones? 75. And Arizona broke 25ppg as an offense 2X in his career.
2022 and 2023 were injury riddled seasons for Murray. Which is a valid knock, but Jones hasn't been better.
I used Josh Rosen because Go Terps has praised Arizona for going QB with the first round pick in consecutive years even though it has not resulted in much more success than the Giants have.
I would push back on this. Murray has produced 120 TDs in 5 years. Jones? 75. And Arizona broke 25ppg as an offense 2X in his career.
2022 and 2023 were injury riddled seasons for Murray. Which is a valid knock, but Jones hasn't been better.
Arizona made the right move to dump Rosen. Just because you make a right move doesn't necessarily mean you'll be an awesome team.
If it were the Giants, Rosen would still be here as long as he showed up to work on time, looked people in the eye while shaking their hands, and occasionally asked Mr. Mara about his workout routine
- Veteran highly paid QB
- Veteran highly paid left tackle
- Highly drafted third year right tackle
- Highly drafted explosive WR
- Highly paid edge rusher
- Highly drafted second edge rusher
- Highly paid nose tackle
- Highly drafted CB
They have all these things and we aren't expecting the playoffs? Do we see the problem here?
But you're not bashing Jones.
We all know we have a QB issue.
Why don't you expect a playoff appearance? This team is in a window to compete. Right now.
Are you trolling at this point?
It's a shame that you've become this kind of poster. It really is. Because you have a lot to offer.
We all want better qb. But this is who GT is. And people, yourself included, treat him like he's the brightest football mind since Bill Walsh. And an often overlooked aspect of his history on this forum, is that the guy went AWOL when Jones was playing well in 2022. Wasn't heard from for months
And an often overlooked aspect of his history on this forum, is that the guy went AWOL when Jones was playing well in 2022. Wasn't heard from for months
The only thing that's ever been overlooked is the actual reason why.
And an often overlooked aspect of his history on this forum, is that the guy went AWOL when Jones was playing well in 2022. Wasn't heard from for months
The only thing that's ever been overlooked is the actual reason why.
I would submit it was because he got tired of listening to all of the pollyanna DJ bullshit with posters thumping their chests over the genius of Joe Schoen in making DJ the sixth highest paid player this year in the NFL. It seems that Terps came back the moment that reality proved that all of that pollyanna bullshit was just a bunch of pollyanna bullshit. You know, the moment the season started and it became clear we would now be in quarterback hell for years to come because of that contract.
No, we don't expect to be a playoff team in 2024. Outside posters like Milton, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who believes that.
I don't know about that Eric. In a thread that was created a week or two ago about predicting the Giants WL record in 2024, there were more than few 9 or 10 win predictions. In the watered down NFL playoffs, that's likely a wild card. I believe it's lunacy, (I predicted 4-6 wins) but old Milton is not alone.
We are not going to be good, but making the playoffs is possible
Especially in the NFC. 6.5 is the correct over/under. That's our talent level. But it's very possible for a team at that level to win 3 more games than expected.
People need to understand that 7/16 teams make the playoffs so it's not some massive accomplishment. Inevitably there will be 2 or 3 terrible teams and 1 or 2 teams that are destroyed by injury. Basically as long as you aren't terrible, you'll make the playoffs every couple of years based on variance. I think it's 30 out of 32 teams have made the playoffs in the last 5 years.
RE: We are not going to be good, but making the playoffs is possible
Especially in the NFC. 6.5 is the correct over/under. That's our talent level. But it's very possible for a team at that level to win 3 more games than expected.
People need to understand that 7/16 teams make the playoffs so it's not some massive accomplishment. Inevitably there will be 2 or 3 terrible teams and 1 or 2 teams that are destroyed by injury. Basically as long as you aren't terrible, you'll make the playoffs every couple of years based on variance. I think it's 30 out of 32 teams have made the playoffs in the last 5 years.
I don't care about squeaking into the playoffs with a bad team. Shoot for more. Build for championships. I'd rather miss the playoffs and commit to a proper rebuild with a high ceiling QB.
👏
And she’s 100% right about Jones’ ‘22 season deserving a ‘side eye’ considering he didn’t push the ball down the field and it was-my words, not hers-a lot of smoke and mirrors.
And she’s 100% right about Jones’ ‘22 season deserving a ‘side eye’ considering he didn’t push the ball down the field and it was-my words, not hers-a lot of smoke and mirrors.
kicking her outta bed for eating potato chips..
👏
Hahahaha oh that's a great description
You add Nabers to Hyatt, Robinson, and Slayton and that is a completely different group. I also think both Isaiah's are more than fine as 5th and 6th WRs. Robinson was amazing last year considering he was coming off a late season ACL. If Hyatt becomes what I think he will become, look out.
What sucks is Waller. If he was healthy physically and mentally, this offense could be really good. That's why the Theo Johnson was an important pick, but that guy is a rookie who needs work.
I think the RBs will be fine. The OL has options now if Neal falters.
Pundits yes. What about scouts?
You add Nabers to Hyatt, Robinson, and Slayton and that is a completely different group. I also think both Isaiah's are more than fine as 5th and 6th WRs. Robinson was amazing last year considering he was coming off a late season ACL. If Hyatt becomes what I think he will become, look out.
What sucks is Waller. If he was healthy physically and mentally, this offense could be really good. That's why the Theo Johnson was an important pick, but that guy is a rookie who needs work.
I think the RBs will be fine. The OL has options now if Neal falters.
I 100% agree. A lot will depend on how the OL performs, of course, but I'd be very surprised if there isn't significant improvement there. As I've said repeatedly, we were told that Jones had no more excuses after he signed his big contract, but that lasted about 5 minutes into the opener. This time, there are no more excuses. If he doesn't perform, it's 100% on him.
In comment 16503778 Eric from BBI said:
You add Nabers to Hyatt, Robinson, and Slayton and that is a completely different group. I also think both Isaiah's are more than fine as 5th and 6th WRs. Robinson was amazing last year considering he was coming off a late season ACL. If Hyatt becomes what I think he will become, look out.
What sucks is Waller. If he was healthy physically and mentally, this offense could be really good. That's why the Theo Johnson was an important pick, but that guy is a rookie who needs work.
I think the RBs will be fine. The OL has options now if Neal falters.
Jones doesn't lift receivers. Every accomplished WR got trashed by Jones fans after they failed to meet expectations, including Barkley. Great receiving season under Eli. When Jones became starter suddenly we were told Barkley can't catch.
And she’s 100% right about Jones’ ‘22 season deserving a ‘side eye’ considering he didn’t push the ball down the field and it was-my words, not hers-a lot of smoke and mirrors.
So the one question her and posters like you need to answer is who was he going to push the ball down the field to? The leading receiver we had on the team that year wasn't even on the roster for the first few games of the year.
You add Nabers to Hyatt, Robinson, and Slayton and that is a completely different group. I also think both Isaiah's are more than fine as 5th and 6th WRs. Robinson was amazing last year considering he was coming off a late season ACL. If Hyatt becomes what I think he will become, look out.
What sucks is Waller. If he was healthy physically and mentally, this offense could be really good. That's why the Theo Johnson was an important pick, but that guy is a rookie who needs work.
I think the RBs will be fine. The OL has options now if Neal falters.
With a good QB this roster could be as good as the Texans or better imo
You add Nabers to Hyatt, Robinson, and Slayton and that is a completely different group. I also think both Isaiah's are more than fine as 5th and 6th WRs. Robinson was amazing last year considering he was coming off a late season ACL. If Hyatt becomes what I think he will become, look out.
What sucks is Waller. If he was healthy physically and mentally, this offense could be really good. That's why the Theo Johnson was an important pick, but that guy is a rookie who needs work.
I think the RBs will be fine. The OL has options now if Neal falters.
The problem is the same as before though. Opposing defenses can easily bottle us up and pressure DJ if he can't make throws downfield. I think the entire season will revolve around that.
Top tier.
That's why I think he was brought in.
1. to be a good backup
2. to push Jones and start if he's the better option or Jones isn't healthy to start.
Yessir
Yes.
👏
Good analogy
It's a win-win.
👏
What does that mean, they should have taken more downfield shots to David Sills and Marcus Johnson?
The reality, they will BOTH be gone after this season.
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Mina Kimes: "...2022 was a bumper bowling offense..."
👏
What does that mean, they should have taken more downfield shots to David Sills and Marcus Johnson?
No, it means the offense was basically a college or even high school level system based on the rpo and easy one read throws. Those were the bumpers. When Daboll tried to take the bumpers off, DJ failed. He needs to have a quicker mind to scan the field and make sound decisions. He's had this issue for his entire football career from what I can tell (hence not getting any offers for cfb and having this same issue in his scouting reports for the pros).
The reality, they will BOTH be gone after this season.
If they both fail, I could see us drafting a rd1 QB and signing a vet like the Minshew contract for LVR.
For $47M I'm expecting him to lead an offense that scores 25 PPG and a team that wins 10+ games. Is that fair?
Jones's injury guarantee will be what pushes him out of the starting job, if anything does.
That's a lot of ifs that haven't gone in the Giants favor in years. QB is the biggest pain point and the best thing that can happen to the team is if Lock becomes this year's Geno Smith or Jones relearns how to throw the deep ball like he did his rookie season. I'm very concerned about Jones' losing some of his running ability from the injury so it's even more important he stops being gun-shy.
With Nabers, Hyatt and Slayton the offense is being built to take shots down the field.
The problem is the same as before though. Opposing defenses can easily bottle us up and pressure DJ if he can't make throws downfield. I think the entire season will revolve around that.
I mostly agree. Defensive coordinators will/should absolutely force Jones to beat them with his arm. Again.
That's exactly what we saw in 2023. As we heard from Devon Witherspoon, teams keyed on that.
Outside his second half in Phoenix, and even when the OL held up their end of the bargain, Jones regressed back to his pre-2022 days.
Regardless, I'm not buying this Lock threat. It seems the media is in a rut with predicting what NYG is going to do.
Jones is being paid to be a difference maker. There is NFW Lock is starting unless...
1. Jones is/gets injured. Or...
2. His play is so putrid, Daboll has no choice.
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"Jones can't tie his own shoelaces" contingent is as equally delusional as the DJFC.
For $47M I'm expecting him to lead an offense that scores 25 PPG and a team that wins 10+ games. Is that fair?
What they are paying him right now is immaterial. They screwed up. The know they screwed up. They wouldn't give him the same contract today.
But he's not Mac Jones or Zach Wilson. Hell, listening to some Giants fans, Tommy Maddox was better.
My biggest worries this year are (1) him getting hurt again (injury clause) and his head (he actually may be broken at this point). But he still can be a mid-tier QB.
They are going to replace him, but the pendulum has swung so far to the other side on Jones that it's getting ridiculous.
I don't think this year is a referendum on Jones. I think that's open and shut at this point. I think this year is a referendum on Schoen and Daboll. I think it's fair, given where they are in their team build, to expect 10 wins and an productive offense.
That's not unreasonable, is it?
Ritchie James 46% snap counts
Kenny Golliday 23% snap counts
Isaiah Hdgins 37% snap counts
S. Sheppard 15% snap counts
David Sills 24% snap counts
Wan Dale 20% snap counts
Slayton 62% snap counts
Marcu Johnson 27% snap counts
this is the epitome of a No 3 and a bunch of guys who on any other teams are getting no snaps if they are even active
This is truly an epically bad WR roster that said QB won a playoff game with
Slayton on any good team is likely their 4 and here is the 1 - just sad
Ritchie James 46% snap counts
Kenny Golliday 23% snap counts
Isaiah Hdgins 37% snap counts
S. Sheppard 15% snap counts
David Sills 24% snap counts
Wan Dale 20% snap counts
Slayton 62% snap counts
Marcu Johnson 27% snap counts
this is the epitome of a No 3 and a bunch of guys who on any other teams are getting no snaps if they are even active
This is truly an epically bad WR roster that said QB won a playoff game with
Slayton on any good team is likely their 4 and here is the 1 - just sad
Not that it's a good bunch, but Slayton is so underrated here. Name all those teams that he would be a number 4 on. He'd be the #3 for all the teams with good receiver cores that I can think of: Eagles, Vikings (since their #3 went to NE), 49ers until they drafted Pearsall...i can't think of what team he would be a #4 on. He's a #3 or #2 for all the teams I can think of.
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"Jones can't tie his own shoelaces" contingent is as equally delusional as the DJFC.
For $47M I'm expecting him to lead an offense that scores 25 PPG and a team that wins 10+ games. Is that fair?
What QB scores 25 points per game through the 1st 9 games of the season last year? Serious question.
I don't think this year is a referendum on Jones. I think that's open and shut at this point. I think this year is a referendum on Schoen and Daboll. I think it's fair, given where they are in their team build, to expect 10 wins and an productive offense.
That's not unreasonable, is it?
I'm not sure why you are not following me on this.
You've said for years that Jones sucks. We all get that. But the average fan has now shifted from "Jones can be good" to "Jones is the anti-Christ."
10 wins and a productive offense? That depends on the play of the QB. Right now, it appears they have a QB problem. Your answer was to draft any QB. They didn't agree.
I really wish you could produce hard, definitive, and strong evidence that Daniel Jones is a top-tier quarterback. Please convince us.
I don't think this year is a referendum on Jones. I think that's open and shut at this point. I think this year is a referendum on Schoen and Daboll. I think it's fair, given where they are in their team build, to expect 10 wins and an productive offense.
That's not unreasonable, is it?
Mara has basically said with his own words he had a heavy hand in all this DJ contract-quagmire situation.
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In comment 16503975 Eric from BBI said:
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"Jones can't tie his own shoelaces" contingent is as equally delusional as the DJFC.
For $47M I'm expecting him to lead an offense that scores 25 PPG and a team that wins 10+ games. Is that fair?
What QB scores 25 points per game through the 1st 9 games of the season last year? Serious question.
Rephrasing: What QB scores 25 points per game for the Giants through the 1st 9 games of the season last year? Serious question.
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In comment 16503988 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16503975 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
"Jones can't tie his own shoelaces" contingent is as equally delusional as the DJFC.
For $47M I'm expecting him to lead an offense that scores 25 PPG and a team that wins 10+ games. Is that fair?
What QB scores 25 points per game through the 1st 9 games of the season last year? Serious question.
Rephrasing: What QB scores 25 points per game for the Giants through the 1st 9 games of the season last year? Serious question.
He's saying this year with Nabers and all the vet signings. And it's true, he should put up or shut up.
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In comment 16504048 Johnny5 said:
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In comment 16503988 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 16503975 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
"Jones can't tie his own shoelaces" contingent is as equally delusional as the DJFC.
For $47M I'm expecting him to lead an offense that scores 25 PPG and a team that wins 10+ games. Is that fair?
What QB scores 25 points per game through the 1st 9 games of the season last year? Serious question.
Rephrasing: What QB scores 25 points per game for the Giants through the 1st 9 games of the season last year? Serious question.
He's saying this year with Nabers and all the vet signings. And it's true, he should put up or shut up.
Well, duh. But ok, for laughs... let's say Nabors was on the squad through the 1st 9 games last year. Rest of the roster (AND OL) is the same. What QB is scoring 25 pts per game?
I'm not sure why you are not following me on this.
You've said for years that Jones sucks. We all get that. But the average fan has now shifted from "Jones can be good" to "Jones is the anti-Christ."
10 wins and a productive offense? That depends on the play of the QB. Right now, it appears they have a QB problem. Your answer was to draft any QB. They didn't agree.
You were swinging a pretty big stick pre-draft crushing Jones and his loyalists regularly.
What's changed since the draft?
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What pendulum? I've been consistent on what Jones is since 2020. The Giants did screw up. Whether they know it is still up for debate considering their current situation.
I don't think this year is a referendum on Jones. I think that's open and shut at this point. I think this year is a referendum on Schoen and Daboll. I think it's fair, given where they are in their team build, to expect 10 wins and an productive offense.
That's not unreasonable, is it?
I'm not sure why you are not following me on this.
You've said for years that Jones sucks. We all get that. But the average fan has now shifted from "Jones can be good" to "Jones is the anti-Christ."
10 wins and a productive offense? That depends on the play of the QB. Right now, it appears they have a QB problem. Your answer was to draft any QB. They didn't agree.
Well to be fair the longer the guy is terrible, the more the fanbase is going to shift to accept the fact he's terrible.
Daniel Jones has broken some brains here.
I get that for us Giants fans this is the most optimistic part of the calendar year, before they start playing football and ruin it.
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In comment 16504027 Go Terps said:
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What pendulum? I've been consistent on what Jones is since 2020. The Giants did screw up. Whether they know it is still up for debate considering their current situation.
I don't think this year is a referendum on Jones. I think that's open and shut at this point. I think this year is a referendum on Schoen and Daboll. I think it's fair, given where they are in their team build, to expect 10 wins and an productive offense.
That's not unreasonable, is it?
I'm not sure why you are not following me on this.
You've said for years that Jones sucks. We all get that. But the average fan has now shifted from "Jones can be good" to "Jones is the anti-Christ."
10 wins and a productive offense? That depends on the play of the QB. Right now, it appears they have a QB problem. Your answer was to draft any QB. They didn't agree.
Well to be fair the longer the guy is terrible, the more the fanbase is going to shift to accept the fact he's terrible.
Daniel Jones has broken some brains here.
I get that for us Giants fans this is the most optimistic part of the calendar year, before they start playing football and ruin it.
Broken brains???
Pot calling kettle black
Anybody who spends as much time on a message board as you do….. LITERALLY saying the exact same thing day after day after day is the clearest definition of having a broken brain
You don’t like him….that’s fine
But take a look in the mirror at your behavior before you judge others
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I'm not sure why you are not following me on this.
You've said for years that Jones sucks. We all get that. But the average fan has now shifted from "Jones can be good" to "Jones is the anti-Christ."
10 wins and a productive offense? That depends on the play of the QB. Right now, it appears they have a QB problem. Your answer was to draft any QB. They didn't agree.
You were swinging a pretty big stick pre-draft crushing Jones and his loyalists regularly.
What's changed since the draft?
My stance hasn't changed. I don't think the Giants can win a Super Bowl with Daniel Jones. I'm not even sure they can win the NFC East with Daniel Jones.
But's not Mac Jones or Zach Wilson. If you protect him and give him decent receivers, he can function as a mid-tier QB. Giants need better. Plus, Jones now has serious injury concerns. Plus, as I have said, I firmly believe you can "break" a QB mentally. And Jones may be in that area.
However, if things break right, I can easily see him having a good season (for him).
Worst thing that can happen is we open with Dallas again and all hell breaks lose. Best thing is if the team manages to start the year 3-1 or even 2-2 and gets its footing.
However, if things break right, I can easily see him having a good season (for him).
Worst thing that can happen is we open with Dallas again and all hell breaks lose. Best thing is if the team manages to start the year 3-1 or even 2-2 and gets its footing.
You know Jerry Jones is going to lobby for the Giants Week 1 for that reason and the NFL will give in to him
That may be better anyway. We shall see.
But Jones has a better team around him now, including a better defense.
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I can see Daniel Jones losing his job to Drew Lock very easily.
However, if things break right, I can easily see him having a good season (for him).
Worst thing that can happen is we open with Dallas again and all hell breaks lose. Best thing is if the team manages to start the year 3-1 or even 2-2 and gets its footing.
You know Jerry Jones is going to lobby for the Giants Week 1 for that reason and the NFL will give in to him
Schedule should come out about a week from today.
That may be better anyway. We shall see.
But Jones has a better team around him now, including a better defense.
I agree Jones can lose his job, but by then it's probably too late. We expect to be a playoff team in 2024, don't we?
I suggest you take a break from the DJ bashing. We get it.
I suggest you take a break from the DJ bashing. We get it.
You still think I'm bashing Jones. I'm not.
Ritchie James 46% snap counts
Kenny Golliday 23% snap counts
Isaiah Hdgins 37% snap counts
S. Sheppard 15% snap counts
David Sills 24% snap counts
Wan Dale 20% snap counts
Slayton 62% snap counts
Marcu Johnson 27% snap counts
this is the epitome of a No 3 and a bunch of guys who on any other teams are getting no snaps if they are even active
This is truly an epically bad WR roster that said QB won a playoff game with
Slayton on any good team is likely their 4 and here is the 1 - just sad
+1 Preach... BBI is fucking delusional
Quote:
Not to defend Jones on his overall play but state facts - 2022 NY Giants WR
Ritchie James 46% snap counts
Kenny Golliday 23% snap counts
Isaiah Hdgins 37% snap counts
S. Sheppard 15% snap counts
David Sills 24% snap counts
Wan Dale 20% snap counts
Slayton 62% snap counts
Marcu Johnson 27% snap counts
this is the epitome of a No 3 and a bunch of guys who on any other teams are getting no snaps if they are even active
This is truly an epically bad WR roster that said QB won a playoff game with
Slayton on any good team is likely their 4 and here is the 1 - just sad
Not that it's a good bunch, but Slayton is so underrated here. Name all those teams that he would be a number 4 on. He'd be the #3 for all the teams with good receiver cores that I can think of: Eagles, Vikings (since their #3 went to NE), 49ers until they drafted Pearsall...i can't think of what team he would be a #4 on. He's a #3 or #2 for all the teams I can think of.
Not a good bunch is an understatement
- Veteran highly paid left tackle
- Highly drafted third year right tackle
- Highly drafted explosive WR
- Highly paid edge rusher
- Highly drafted second edge rusher
- Highly paid nose tackle
- Highly drafted CB
They have all these things and we aren't expecting the playoffs? Do we see the problem here?
- Veteran highly paid left tackle
- Highly drafted third year right tackle
- Highly drafted explosive WR
- Highly paid edge rusher
- Highly drafted second edge rusher
- Highly paid nose tackle
- Highly drafted CB
They have all these things and we aren't expecting the playoffs? Do we see the problem here?
Very solid point.
Quote:
Not to defend Jones on his overall play but state facts - 2022 NY Giants WR
Ritchie James 46% snap counts
Kenny Golliday 23% snap counts
Isaiah Hdgins 37% snap counts
S. Sheppard 15% snap counts
David Sills 24% snap counts
Wan Dale 20% snap counts
Slayton 62% snap counts
Marcu Johnson 27% snap counts
this is the epitome of a No 3 and a bunch of guys who on any other teams are getting no snaps if they are even active
This is truly an epically bad WR roster that said QB won a playoff game with
Slayton on any good team is likely their 4 and here is the 1 - just sad
+1 Preach... BBI is fucking delusional
So you think a front office that clearly lacks for scouting acumen when evaluating offensive skill position players somehow miraculously got their QB evaluation correct?
Grossly under thrown at that...
- Veteran highly paid left tackle
- Highly drafted third year right tackle
- Highly drafted explosive WR
- Highly paid edge rusher
- Highly drafted second edge rusher
- Highly paid nose tackle
- Highly drafted CB
They have all these things and we aren't expecting the playoffs? Do we see the problem here?
I expect playoffs. If the OL has any semblance of even being mediocre (well and Daniel Jones isn't fucking broken at this point), why wouldn't I at least expect the Giants to repeat 2022? And you never answered my question?
Quote:
- Veteran highly paid QB
- Veteran highly paid left tackle
- Highly drafted third year right tackle
- Highly drafted explosive WR
- Highly paid edge rusher
- Highly drafted second edge rusher
- Highly paid nose tackle
- Highly drafted CB
They have all these things and we aren't expecting the playoffs? Do we see the problem here?
I expect playoffs. If the OL has any semblance of even being mediocre (well and Daniel Jones isn't fucking broken at this point), why wouldn't I at least expect the Giants to repeat 2022? And you never answered my question?
So if Jones fails it isn't his fault... he's broken.. do you hear yourself? Why can't we admit he has failed to reach any metrics we would associate with a quality QB.
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- Veteran highly paid QB
- Veteran highly paid left tackle
- Highly drafted third year right tackle
- Highly drafted explosive WR
- Highly paid edge rusher
- Highly drafted second edge rusher
- Highly paid nose tackle
- Highly drafted CB
They have all these things and we aren't expecting the playoffs? Do we see the problem here?
I expect playoffs. If the OL has any semblance of even being mediocre (well and Daniel Jones isn't fucking broken at this point), why wouldn't I at least expect the Giants to repeat 2022? And you never answered my question?
I'm sorry what question? I must have missed it.
- Veteran highly paid left tackle
- Highly drafted third year right tackle
- Highly drafted explosive WR
- Highly paid edge rusher
- Highly drafted second edge rusher
- Highly paid nose tackle
- Highly drafted CB
They have all these things and we aren't expecting the playoffs? Do we see the problem here?
But you're not bashing Jones.
We all know we have a QB issue.
Quote:
- Veteran highly paid QB
- Veteran highly paid left tackle
- Highly drafted third year right tackle
- Highly drafted explosive WR
- Highly paid edge rusher
- Highly drafted second edge rusher
- Highly paid nose tackle
- Highly drafted CB
They have all these things and we aren't expecting the playoffs? Do we see the problem here?
But you're not bashing Jones.
We all know we have a QB issue.
Why don't you expect a playoff appearance? This team is in a window to compete. Right now.
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In comment 16504124 Go Terps said:
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- Veteran highly paid QB
- Veteran highly paid left tackle
- Highly drafted third year right tackle
- Highly drafted explosive WR
- Highly paid edge rusher
- Highly drafted second edge rusher
- Highly paid nose tackle
- Highly drafted CB
They have all these things and we aren't expecting the playoffs? Do we see the problem here?
But you're not bashing Jones.
We all know we have a QB issue.
Why don't you expect a playoff appearance? This team is in a window to compete. Right now.
What window? Won't have a legitimate window until the OL is finally sorted out. CB, S, and RB aren't solidified either.
I'm seriously contending that whatever people believe about the pluses and minuses of that roster, it was put together by the same people that also chose the 2022 QB.
Whether you want to put that on Schoen/Daboll, Gettleman/Judge, or some combination thereof, there's no reason to make a distinction between Jones and the WR corps, strictly from an evaluation standpoint. It's cognitive dissonance in its simplest form to suggest otherwise, IMO.
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In comment 16504124 Go Terps said:
Quote:
- Veteran highly paid QB
- Veteran highly paid left tackle
- Highly drafted third year right tackle
- Highly drafted explosive WR
- Highly paid edge rusher
- Highly drafted second edge rusher
- Highly paid nose tackle
- Highly drafted CB
They have all these things and we aren't expecting the playoffs? Do we see the problem here?
But you're not bashing Jones.
We all know we have a QB issue.
Why don't you expect a playoff appearance? This team is in a window to compete. Right now.
Joe Schoen is trying to have it both ways and I think it is fair to question.
After giving Jones a stupid contract he then said he spent too much at this stage of the rebuild. Then he proceeded to spend draft capital (he might have used on a QB) and a lot of money on Burns, and we got a WR who is useful only if you have a QB. It doesn't seem like Schoen is following a coherent plan. The Vikings are following a more coherent plan, and they should be behind us in the rebuild.
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In comment 16504124 Go Terps said:
Quote:
- Veteran highly paid QB
- Veteran highly paid left tackle
- Highly drafted third year right tackle
- Highly drafted explosive WR
- Highly paid edge rusher
- Highly drafted second edge rusher
- Highly paid nose tackle
- Highly drafted CB
They have all these things and we aren't expecting the playoffs? Do we see the problem here?
I expect playoffs. If the OL has any semblance of even being mediocre (well and Daniel Jones isn't fucking broken at this point), why wouldn't I at least expect the Giants to repeat 2022? And you never answered my question?
So if Jones fails it isn't his fault... he's broken.. do you hear yourself? Why can't we admit he has failed to reach any metrics we would associate with a quality QB.
OMG, seriously. Just stop already. I would have been fine, FINE if we drafted another QB. I don't give a shit who is behind center for the Giants. But I root for who's there to succeed. BUT I ROOT FOR WHO IS THEREE TO SUCCEED.
I already posted this in the Garofalo thread. Holy shit already.
You see how much work the Giants did scouting ALL of these QBs no? I sure did.
Isn't it clear at this point that this regime sees how far behind their roster - their WHOLE FUCKING ROSTER - is than Philly/Dallas? Isn't it clear that they are trying to build this team and they felt the best way to do it was to add one of the highest graded passing playmakers in years in a passing league? And for fuck's sake, isn't it clear that they don't agree with these dopey assessments from the BBI peanut gallery that Daniel Jones is the worst fucking QB in the league??
They made their decision to build the team. We don't even know how much ceiling if any that Jones has going forward (or how much Shane and Davoli think). But they have already proven that they can win with him with a terrible roster. That is WHY they gave him the contract. It's not some fucking conspiracy with Mara. They scouted the QBs and they felt it was best to pass on this 2024 draft crop (at least if they couldn't get one of Williams, Daniels, Maye). They are building the team AS THEY SHOULD WANT TO DO and will roll with the guy that they already decided that they liked in Jones. And I am quite sure no matter how next year goes to be scouting the shit out of next year's QB crop (AS THEY SHOULD).
They may be wrong, regimes are wrong ALL the time and get replaced. But it's pretty clear how they feel at this point.
And to Terps I asked you What QB scores 25 points per game for the Giants through the 1st 9 games of the season last year?
The reality, they will BOTH be gone after this season.
Have you seen Lock's career stats? He's not winning anything...
And to Terps I asked you What QB scores 25 points per game for the Giants through the 1st 9 games of the season last year?
I don't know. I can't even remember the first 9 games last year. The games aren't usually worth remembering.
However, if things break right, I can easily see him having a good season (for him).
Worst thing that can happen is we open with Dallas again and all hell breaks lose. Best thing is if the team manages to start the year 3-1 or even 2-2 and gets its footing.
Drew Lock has 5,000 yards passing in 28 games LOL. He's horrible.
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In comment 16504134 Johnny5 said:
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In comment 16504124 Go Terps said:
Quote:
- Veteran highly paid QB
- Veteran highly paid left tackle
- Highly drafted third year right tackle
- Highly drafted explosive WR
- Highly paid edge rusher
- Highly drafted second edge rusher
- Highly paid nose tackle
- Highly drafted CB
They have all these things and we aren't expecting the playoffs? Do we see the problem here?
I expect playoffs. If the OL has any semblance of even being mediocre (well and Daniel Jones isn't fucking broken at this point), why wouldn't I at least expect the Giants to repeat 2022? And you never answered my question?
So if Jones fails it isn't his fault... he's broken.. do you hear yourself? Why can't we admit he has failed to reach any metrics we would associate with a quality QB.
OMG, seriously. Just stop already. I would have been fine, FINE if we drafted another QB. I don't give a shit who is behind center for the Giants. But I root for who's there to succeed. BUT I ROOT FOR WHO IS THEREE TO SUCCEED.
I already posted this in the Garofalo thread. Holy shit already.
You see how much work the Giants did scouting ALL of these QBs no? I sure did.
Isn't it clear at this point that this regime sees how far behind their roster - their WHOLE FUCKING ROSTER - is than Philly/Dallas? Isn't it clear that they are trying to build this team and they felt the best way to do it was to add one of the highest graded passing playmakers in years in a passing league? And for fuck's sake, isn't it clear that they don't agree with these dopey assessments from the BBI peanut gallery that Daniel Jones is the worst fucking QB in the league??
They made their decision to build the team. We don't even know how much ceiling if any that Jones has going forward (or how much Shane and Davoli think). But they have already proven that they can win with him with a terrible roster. That is WHY they gave him the contract. It's not some fucking conspiracy with Mara. They scouted the QBs and they felt it was best to pass on this 2024 draft crop (at least if they couldn't get one of Williams, Daniels, Maye). They are building the team AS THEY SHOULD WANT TO DO and will roll with the guy that they already decided that they liked in Jones. And I am quite sure no matter how next year goes to be scouting the shit out of next year's QB crop (AS THEY SHOULD).
They may be wrong, regimes are wrong ALL the time and get replaced. But it's pretty clear how they feel at this point.
And to Terps I asked you What QB scores 25 points per game for the Giants through the 1st 9 games of the season last year?
I have a thought for you. You may find when they replace the QB with a good starter, this team and the roster is not as far away as you think. A good QB is worth +5 to 7 points vs the spread. Aaron Rodgers at his peak was worth +10 points. Daniel Jones is probably worth -2 points. This team can never get going because they don't have an answer at the most important position. Adding a top WR isn't worth as much as you think, probably less than +2 points per game. This team will never look functional with such poor QB play.
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plays well and cements himself here, Jones is gone anyway, and they will re-sign Lock to go forward with. This isn't rocket science.
The reality, they will BOTH be gone after this season.
Have you seen Lock's career stats? He's not winning anything...
You are badly misrepresenting numbers to make Lock look worse. And I would normally just ignore your post, but I'm pretty sure you would skew you interpretation of data in Jones' favor to make the gap between them look ludicrous.
Your handling of the data is so skewed I wonder if you are stupid or dishonest. I'm guessing the latter, but I'm not sure.
OK then answer my question, which no one seems to want to try an answer. DJ is a middle of the road NFL QB, no more no less. In MY OPINION.
SO... WHAT QB scores 25 pts per game with the Giants through the 1st 9 games of last year?
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Not to defend Jones on his overall play but state facts - 2022 NY Giants WR
Ritchie James 46% snap counts
Kenny Golliday 23% snap counts
Isaiah Hdgins 37% snap counts
S. Sheppard 15% snap counts
David Sills 24% snap counts
Wan Dale 20% snap counts
Slayton 62% snap counts
Marcu Johnson 27% snap counts
this is the epitome of a No 3 and a bunch of guys who on any other teams are getting no snaps if they are even active
This is truly an epically bad WR roster that said QB won a playoff game with
Slayton on any good team is likely their 4 and here is the 1 - just sad
Not that it's a good bunch, but Slayton is so underrated here. Name all those teams that he would be a number 4 on. He'd be the #3 for all the teams with good receiver cores that I can think of: Eagles, Vikings (since their #3 went to NE), 49ers until they drafted Pearsall...i can't think of what team he would be a #4 on. He's a #3 or #2 for all the teams I can think of.
He would not have been ahead of Jauan Jennings for SF and arguably not Ronnie Bell, either.
Eagles...Brown, Smith, and take your pick, Quez Watkins, Julio, Zaccheus. Not not saying he's definitively behind that whole group but he isn't definitively ahead of any of them and certainly not Jones and probably ot Watkins.
Just a hard disagree. He's a 4 on a team with a good receiver room. Not a 3.
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In comment 16504124 Go Terps said:
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- Veteran highly paid QB
- Veteran highly paid left tackle
- Highly drafted third year right tackle
- Highly drafted explosive WR
- Highly paid edge rusher
- Highly drafted second edge rusher
- Highly paid nose tackle
- Highly drafted CB
They have all these things and we aren't expecting the playoffs? Do we see the problem here?
But you're not bashing Jones.
We all know we have a QB issue.
Why don't you expect a playoff appearance? This team is in a window to compete. Right now.
Are you trolling at this point?
It's a shame that you've become this kind of poster. It really is. Because you have a lot to offer.
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I have a thought for you. You may find when they replace the QB with a good starter, this team and the roster is not as far away as you think. A good QB is worth +5 to 7 points vs the spread. Aaron Rodgers at his peak was worth +10 points. Daniel Jones is probably worth -2 points. This team can never get going because they don't have an answer at the most important position. Adding a top WR isn't worth as much as you think, probably less than +2 points per game. This team will never look functional with such poor QB play.
OK then answer my question, which no one seems to want to try an answer. DJ is a middle of the road NFL QB, no more no less. In MY OPINION.
SO... WHAT QB scores 25 pts per game with the Giants through the 1st 9 games of last year?
This is an issue with this discussion. Jones is not a middle of the road QB. He is a very bottom tier QB, possibly not even a starter in this league. But at best he is in the tier where he gets cycled with the Trubiskys and Brissets. I would 100% rather have Brisset than Daniel Jones. Jones got clearly outplayed by Tyrod Taylor last season. It wasn't close. Taylor is a fit for Daboll's system - which is not exotic. It just requires reading the field and throwing vertically. Jones can't do that with enough consistency to be effective.
I don't see what's so egregious about saying that.
I don't see what's so egregious about saying that.
This is a very young football team. And the core group is under contract for several years.
What do you want? An old football team?
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This team is built to win now.
I don't see what's so egregious about saying that.
This is a very young football team. And the core group is under contract for several years.
What do you want? An old football team?
The Packers were the youngest team in the league last season. How did they do?
For some reason this Schoen regime appears to have the wrong priorities. They are not aggressively coming up with QB options. They should release Daniel Jones when he is medically cleared, and they should have come out of the draft with some QB, whether a top-6 guy or a developmental guy. If you strike gold at QB the team takes a monumental step up. Malik Nabers, as good as he is, and I love him, is window dressing by comparison.
The Giants for a better part of a decade or more has had the WORST or bottom 5 WRs, TEs and OL. It’s been that bad. But I don’t hear nearly the disgust and energy given to that. It’s about all DJ and that to me is not the end all be all.
We simply can’t compete for championships with the talent gap or deficit that was on this roster across the board. So FINALLY this year they’ve been a real plan to address that. Waller was a failed attempt. Parris Campbell was a swing and miss.
But to draft Nabers, a true #1 type WR, and sign an ER with Burns pedigree are attempts to close that gap. Signing 2 professional and ascending guards to help fortify the OL are good starts to watching functional damn football.
Some of the best QBs have had true difference makers at wideout but the Giants who have DJ (who many would say is far less talented than Allen, Herbert, Mahomes, Burrow, etc) is running out there with David Sills, Richie James, Hodgins and Marcus Johnson etc.? So say what you want, but to make the playoffs in 2022 says a lot about how much DJ and Barkley elevated that team on offense. To suggest anything else is nonsense. That was a very subpar WR/TE/OL group.
Allen had Diggs. Hurts has AJ and Devonta. Burrow has Chase and Higgins. Mahomes had Tyreek, has Kelce and now Worthy. Stafford has Kupp and Puka. Purdy has Deebo, Kittle and Aiyuk. Herbert had Allen and Williams. So it’s clear teams value providing weapons and talented players around their QBs.
Giants have failed at that by a lot. Period. Slayton has been his best WR and that’s not saying much. And the OL has been the bottom of the league as well.
So this year, DJ will have his best opportunity to show us through his performance and production what he can really do with a functional OL and group of really talented WRs. Let the chips fall where they may.
What the Giants also did makes sense.
If the three quarterbacks they passed on look like studs, you are right. If they don't, the Giants are right.
Taking a QB in round 5, 6, or 7 wasn't going to fix this.
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This team is built to win now.
I don't see what's so egregious about saying that.
This is a very young football team. And the core group is under contract for several years.
What do you want? An old football team?
I agree, it's a young team. And I think they've done a good job moving money from dumb places (RB, S) to smart places (OL, DL). But they are now into big contacts at the most expensive places (QB, LT, edge)... That's a sign that it's time to get up and get going.
I'm not bashing Jones. We all know what he is. I'm making a point about where this team is in its build. If I didn't know anything about these players other than their ages, positions, and contracts, I'd say this is a team that's ready to make a push.
Why don't we feel like this team is ready to make a push? Why is the over/under at 6.5? Why are Mina Kimes and Field Yates so non-committal on whether they've done enough to improve?
My overall point is something is wrong. The timing, the alignment of this operation - it's not adding up.
If you believe Jones is serviceable, the OL is improved and Burns/Nabers are impact additions, I don’t know why a 2022-type season is so outrageous.
What the Giants also did makes sense.
If the three quarterbacks they passed on look like studs, you are right. If they don't, the Giants are right.
Taking a QB in round 5, 6, or 7 wasn't going to fix this.
I’d say that if just one of them becomes a stud…really bad look.
They are still in the process of rebuilding this roster.
The next move is obvious, and everyone here knows it.
The Giants could not have fixed everything in one offseason. They added 22 players. That's almost half the team.
What the Giants also did makes sense.
If the three quarterbacks they passed on look like studs, you are right. If they don't, the Giants are right.
Taking a QB in round 5, 6, or 7 wasn't going to fix this.
I am sure at least one of Penix, Nix or McCarthy will be great. And I'd wager all three will be better pros than Jones.
As for the late round guys, I think it is worth taking a shot. Look at Brock Purdy. I don't think he is some rare phenomenon. The game is changing before our eyes. It is far more QB-centric than what we saw in the 80s, heck even from Eli's period, so different. With all these new systems and ways of attacking, it seems to be a lot easier for some QBs to come in and contribute at a high level. I do not think Stroud and Purdy will be the last we see of fast contributors. The Vikings get it. They wanted Maye but were ready to settle for Penix or McCarthy. If you have a void at QB, you must upgrade it immediately. It's foolish to wait around for years for just the "right" guy. Teams are on their 2nd and 3rd rebuilds.
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And to Terps I asked you What QB scores 25 points per game for the Giants through the 1st 9 games of the season last year?
I don't know. I can't even remember the first 9 games last year. The games aren't usually worth remembering.
OK let me answer for you - The answer is no one.
They are still in the process of rebuilding this roster.
The next move is obvious, and everyone here knows it.
The Giants could not have fixed everything in one offseason. They added 22 players. That's almost half the team.
Three years into a rebuild the attrition of the league already starts to become a factor. And who knows how long before that obvious next move even happens?
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In comment 16504161 Johnny5 said:
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And to Terps I asked you What QB scores 25 points per game for the Giants through the 1st 9 games of the season last year?
I don't know. I can't even remember the first 9 games last year. The games aren't usually worth remembering.
OK let me answer for you - The answer is no one.
Great.
If you believe Jones is serviceable, the OL is improved and Burns/Nabers are impact additions, I don’t know why a 2022-type season is so outrageous.
Nearly half the league makes a playoff appearance in a given year.
The gap is closing to Philly because they got worse, as evidenced by the fact that they got worked over by Baker Mayfield.
And again it brings up the question, if they’re eager to replace the QB who would appearing in the playoffs further that cause?
To be fair, Jones would be able to tie his own shoes just fine as long as he’s sitting in the perfect chair, the shoes fit just right and the laces are long enough to allow for some extra tugging. I’m not sure how anyone in the world could possibly tie their shoes without these things being ideal…
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and Banks said a playoff appearance is the goal of the front office. I don’t know if he’s just talking out of his ass but he believes playoffs should be the goal too. Brought up the blowout win against Philly as evidence they are closing the gap.
If you believe Jones is serviceable, the OL is improved and Burns/Nabers are impact additions, I don’t know why a 2022-type season is so outrageous.
Nearly half the league makes a playoff appearance in a given year.
The gap is closing to Philly because they got worse, as evidenced by the fact that they got worked over by Baker Mayfield.
And again it brings up the question, if they’re eager to replace the QB who would appearing in the playoffs further that cause?
SF almost won a Super Bowl last year. And they were very much in contention to do the same the prior year. Do you think they wouldn't replace Brock Purdy? Do they NEED to? Maybe. But I'll take that kind of success all day long. ALL DAY LONG. Is anyone here now willing to argue Brock Purdy looks better than Daniel Jones on the Giants last year? I sure wouldn't.
This is simply not true.. no one is open ALL the time... come on... seriously..
I would wager probably not and then that's where the fun begins.
And Terps is right, the window for the Giants winning the division alone, should be open right now. But because they very likely, almost certainly botched the QB decision, which is the most important and crucial piece, this window will likely be wasted.
Needing a full rebuild yet again, as the Giants have to weigh how much do they pay Thomas, Dex, Burns, Banks, KT, JMS and Nabers if he makes a 2nd contract (I doubt this for reasons).
- Veteran highly paid left tackle
- Highly drafted third year right tackle
- Highly drafted explosive WR
- Highly paid edge rusher
- Highly drafted second edge rusher
- Highly paid nose tackle
- Highly drafted CB
They have all these things and we aren't expecting the playoffs? Do we see the problem here?
So one of the reasons we should expect the playoffs is because we have Evan Neal?
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In comment 16504206 bceagle05 said:
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and Banks said a playoff appearance is the goal of the front office. I don’t know if he’s just talking out of his ass but he believes playoffs should be the goal too. Brought up the blowout win against Philly as evidence they are closing the gap.
If you believe Jones is serviceable, the OL is improved and Burns/Nabers are impact additions, I don’t know why a 2022-type season is so outrageous.
Nearly half the league makes a playoff appearance in a given year.
The gap is closing to Philly because they got worse, as evidenced by the fact that they got worked over by Baker Mayfield.
And again it brings up the question, if they’re eager to replace the QB who would appearing in the playoffs further that cause?
SF almost won a Super Bowl last year. And they were very much in contention to do the same the prior year. Do you think they wouldn't replace Brock Purdy? Do they NEED to? Maybe. But I'll take that kind of success all day long. ALL DAY LONG. Is anyone here now willing to argue Brock Purdy looks better than Daniel Jones on the Giants last year? I sure wouldn't.
He absolutely did
I don't disagree @ all. But it's going to fuck suck if JJM or Nixon or Penix becomes a stud & we got Nabers throwing his hands up in the air when DJ isn't getting him the ball, the latter scenario which I could 100% see this fall.
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Sure. But taking Nabers over McCarthy makes sense. It wasn't some crazy, batshit dumb idea..
I don't disagree @ all. But it's going to fuck suck if JJM or Nixon or Penix becomes a stud & we got Nabers throwing his hands up in the air when DJ isn't getting him the ball, the latter scenario which I could 100% see this fall.
Or they don't, and Nabers becomes a continual All-Pro WR.
Regardless of what I think of him as a talent-not much-I think there's a legit chance he's just screwed up mentally from years of bad OL play, a lot like David Carr was after his time in Houston.
If that's their approach why would they draft a QB next year? Their exposure to QB prospects figure to be less next year than it was this year. They'll still have Jones under contract, so why force it?
and it's Lock, not Locke or Loki or Loch ness
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Simply "being better than Jones" isn't good enough for six, even if that were true.
If that's their approach why would they draft a QB next year? Their exposure to QB prospects figure to be less next year than it was this year. They'll still have Jones under contract, so why force it?
We don't know what the draft will look like next year. TBD.
You can't rule out the Cowboys, Seahawks, Jets, Bucs, and Steelers.
Lots of eggs in one basket. I agree with what you said on that podcast - they had to get their QB this offseason or next. This offseason is gone.
Now you're talking about doing what so many said was so bad: forcing the QB in 2025.
1. Terps hates Daniel Jones
2. Anything current GM and coach do that doesn’t involve replacing Daniel Jones is completely stupid
3. Let’s only bringing up the 2023 season and not 2022, because hey only one of those seasons actually happened and it was definitely 2023 not 2022
4. Jones sucks
That it?
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because six QBs were taken this year, there won't be a lot of teams looking QB in round one next year. Giants, Raiders, maybe the Titans, possibly the Browns.
Lots of eggs in one basket. I agree with what you said on that podcast - they had to get their QB this offseason or next. This offseason is gone.
Now you're talking about doing what so many said was so bad: forcing the QB in 2025.
So you would force one in 2024 so they didn’t have to in 2025? What if the one you forced this year turned into Josh Rosen?
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In comment 16504260 Eric from BBI said:
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because six QBs were taken this year, there won't be a lot of teams looking QB in round one next year. Giants, Raiders, maybe the Titans, possibly the Browns.
Lots of eggs in one basket. I agree with what you said on that podcast - they had to get their QB this offseason or next. This offseason is gone.
Now you're talking about doing what so many said was so bad: forcing the QB in 2025.
So you would force one in 2024 so they didn’t have to in 2025? What if the one you forced this year turned into Josh Rosen?
The Giants put themselves in this position by ignoring the position in the draft for years. Now they have no choice.
1. Terps hates Daniel Jones
2. Anything current GM and coach do that doesn’t involve replacing Daniel Jones is completely stupid
3. Let’s only bringing up the 2023 season and not 2022, because hey only one of those seasons actually happened and it was definitely 2023 not 2022
4. Jones sucks
That it?
Did 2020 or 2021 happen also, or nah?
Outside of that He'll have 2 or 3 good games against bad teams and a few terrible games. We'll probably win 6 or 7 games.
Outside of that He'll have 2 or 3 good games against bad teams and a few terrible games. We'll probably win 6 or 7 games.
Not so sure. Nabers can take a 5-yard pass and turn it into a 75 yard touchdown.
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because six QBs were taken this year, there won't be a lot of teams looking QB in round one next year. Giants, Raiders, maybe the Titans, possibly the Browns.
You can't rule out the Cowboys, Seahawks, Jets, Bucs, and Steelers.
Indeed. I feel like we keep saying this. NEXT year there won't be as much competition, but the season always raises questions and there will probably be a hard 4 teams and an addition 2 or 3 soft teams evaluating the position.
Jone's will, if its the first read
So you would force one in 2024 so they didn’t have to in 2025? What if the one you forced this year turned into Josh Rosen?
What if the force ends up being Josh Allen?
I don't understand the never-ending Rosen counter. It's like Tourette Syndrome.
You/others act like Rosen was bad at UCLA. His senior year, while dealing with a concussion at one point, completed 63% of his passes, threw for 26TDs, and an 8.3 YPA. Sy was bullish pre-draft.
This sure-thing mentality is just bizarre.
Why is Nabers more of sure thing, btw? The bust rate for first round WRs is the highest of any position.
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Listen, I can't move on from Jones soon enough. I'd drive up from NC tomorrow to help him move out of his apartment. But if he's starting, I hope he's looking to Nabers. All. The. Time. Nabers strikes me as Odell like...throw him a slant & he'll take it to the house. Fuck, that was pretty much our 2016 offensive gameplan.
Jone's will, if its the first read
Eli could hit downfield throws though, if DJ fails to do that again we are toast and I don't think Lock will get to start unless DJ is hurt.
I said it last night on another thread. Jones was Plan B of this draft.
Plan A, if the rumors are accurate, was to grab the QB that was love at first sight.
If that failed, however, they were comfortable going with Jones. Schoen/Daboll probably convinced themselves going into the draft that with more resources they could easily get Jones back to V.2022. Thus, draft the stud WR prospect.
As the song goes, if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you are with...
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So you would force one in 2024 so they didn’t have to in 2025? What if the one you forced this year turned into Josh Rosen?
What if the force ends up being Josh Allen?
I don't understand the never-ending Rosen counter. It's like Tourette Syndrome.
You/others act like Rosen was bad at UCLA. His senior year, while dealing with a concussion at one point, completed 63% of his passes, threw for 26TDs, and an 8.3 YPA. Sy was bullish pre-draft.
This sure-thing mentality is just bizarre.
Why is Nabers more of sure thing, btw? The bust rate for first round WRs is the highest of any position.
I used Josh Rosen because Go Terps has praised Arizona for going QB with the first round pick in consecutive years even though it has not resulted in much more success than the Giants have.
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the only way this plan really makes sense is if they believe in Jones to get his act together. If they don't, they have taken a colossal risk.
I said it last night on another thread. Jones was Plan B of this draft.
Plan A, if the rumors are accurate, was to grab the QB that was love at first sight.
If that failed, however, they were comfortable going with Jones. Schoen/Daboll probably convinced themselves going into the draft that with more resources they could easily get Jones back to V.2022. Thus, draft the stud WR prospect.
As the song goes, if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you are with...
It wasn't full bloom love or Mara wouldn't approve of offering a legit package. Pick 6 and 2025 1st would never have cut it. We didn't even make an offer close to what Minnesota offered. I'm glad we didn't, but this idea that we did everything we could to get Maye is a joke.
It wasn't full bloom love or Mara wouldn't approve of offering a legit package. Pick 6 and 2025 1st would never have cut it. We didn't even make an offer close to what Minnesota offered. I'm glad we didn't, but this idea that we did everything we could to get Maye is a joke.
It sounds more and more like Schoen was window shopping at the QB Store. He may have gone in to get a price check, but I think he left his wallet at home.
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It wasn't full bloom love or Mara wouldn't approve of offering a legit package. Pick 6 and 2025 1st would never have cut it. We didn't even make an offer close to what Minnesota offered. I'm glad we didn't, but this idea that we did everything we could to get Maye is a joke.
It sounds more and more like Schoen was window shopping at the QB Store. He may have gone in to get a price check, but I think he left his wallet at home.
100%
If McCarthy turns into Joe Burrow then I think you can keep talking. But all of your posts amount to absolutely nothing. It is just pure conjecture.
I used Josh Rosen because Go Terps has praised Arizona for going QB with the first round pick in consecutive years even though it has not resulted in much more success than the Giants have.
Hahah good point. But but but, they have to keep taking swings!!
lol
I used Josh Rosen because Go Terps has praised Arizona for going QB with the first round pick in consecutive years even though it has not resulted in much more success than the Giants have.
I would push back on this. Murray has produced 120 TDs in 5 years. Jones? 75. And Arizona broke 25ppg as an offense 2X in his career.
2022 and 2023 were injury riddled seasons for Murray. Which is a valid knock, but Jones hasn't been better.
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I used Josh Rosen because Go Terps has praised Arizona for going QB with the first round pick in consecutive years even though it has not resulted in much more success than the Giants have.
I would push back on this. Murray has produced 120 TDs in 5 years. Jones? 75. And Arizona broke 25ppg as an offense 2X in his career.
2022 and 2023 were injury riddled seasons for Murray. Which is a valid knock, but Jones hasn't been better.
Yay Az!
Giants
2023: 6- 11
2022: 9- 7
2021: 4- 13
2020: 6- 10
2019: 4- 12
Total: 29- 53
AZ
2023: 4- 13
2022: 4- 13
2021: 11- 6
2020: 8- 8
2019: 5- 10
Total: 32- 50
If it were the Giants, Rosen would still be here as long as he showed up to work on time, looked people in the eye while shaking their hands, and occasionally asked Mr. Mara about his workout routine
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There is validity to what you are arguing.
What the Giants also did makes sense.
If the three quarterbacks they passed on look like studs, you are right. If they don't, the Giants are right.
Taking a QB in round 5, 6, or 7 wasn't going to fix this.
I’d say that if just one of them becomes a stud…really bad look.
Right. But Murray has at least resembled a franchise QB; and when healthy has shown he can lead a productive offense.
Jones has never shown that...
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Both franchises haven't done much winning.
Right. But Murray has at least resembled a franchise QB; and when healthy has shown he can lead a productive offense.
Jones has never shown that...
Well, I think he shows better than you do, obviously... but point taken BW.
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In comment 16504148 Eric from BBI said:
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In comment 16504124 Go Terps said:
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- Veteran highly paid QB
- Veteran highly paid left tackle
- Highly drafted third year right tackle
- Highly drafted explosive WR
- Highly paid edge rusher
- Highly drafted second edge rusher
- Highly paid nose tackle
- Highly drafted CB
They have all these things and we aren't expecting the playoffs? Do we see the problem here?
But you're not bashing Jones.
We all know we have a QB issue.
Why don't you expect a playoff appearance? This team is in a window to compete. Right now.
Are you trolling at this point?
It's a shame that you've become this kind of poster. It really is. Because you have a lot to offer.
We all want better qb. But this is who GT is. And people, yourself included, treat him like he's the brightest football mind since Bill Walsh. And an often overlooked aspect of his history on this forum, is that the guy went AWOL when Jones was playing well in 2022. Wasn't heard from for months
The only thing that's ever been overlooked is the actual reason why.
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And an often overlooked aspect of his history on this forum, is that the guy went AWOL when Jones was playing well in 2022. Wasn't heard from for months
The only thing that's ever been overlooked is the actual reason why.
I would submit it was because he got tired of listening to all of the pollyanna DJ bullshit with posters thumping their chests over the genius of Joe Schoen in making DJ the sixth highest paid player this year in the NFL. It seems that Terps came back the moment that reality proved that all of that pollyanna bullshit was just a bunch of pollyanna bullshit. You know, the moment the season started and it became clear we would now be in quarterback hell for years to come because of that contract.
I don't know about that Eric. In a thread that was created a week or two ago about predicting the Giants WL record in 2024, there were more than few 9 or 10 win predictions. In the watered down NFL playoffs, that's likely a wild card. I believe it's lunacy, (I predicted 4-6 wins) but old Milton is not alone.
People need to understand that 7/16 teams make the playoffs so it's not some massive accomplishment. Inevitably there will be 2 or 3 terrible teams and 1 or 2 teams that are destroyed by injury. Basically as long as you aren't terrible, you'll make the playoffs every couple of years based on variance. I think it's 30 out of 32 teams have made the playoffs in the last 5 years.
People need to understand that 7/16 teams make the playoffs so it's not some massive accomplishment. Inevitably there will be 2 or 3 terrible teams and 1 or 2 teams that are destroyed by injury. Basically as long as you aren't terrible, you'll make the playoffs every couple of years based on variance. I think it's 30 out of 32 teams have made the playoffs in the last 5 years.
I don't care about squeaking into the playoffs with a bad team. Shoot for more. Build for championships. I'd rather miss the playoffs and commit to a proper rebuild with a high ceiling QB.