I know we talk about Jones like crazy, but just curious to see what everyone feels is the reason(s) Jones has regressed since his rookie year:
1.) Just not good (can’t see the field properly at this level, lacks instincts)
2.) Coaching staffs that made him focus so much on preventing turnovers that he plays ultra conservative and won’t throw downfield
3.) Hearing footsteps due to the number of sacks taken and injuries suffered
4.) Lack of weapons at receiver position
5.) Horrible offensive line play not giving him time to throw downfield
6.) Combination of 1-5
Yep. Our offense might be less effective with DJ vs TT last year (even with Nabers and OL additions).
More like the 2020 Tampa game happened. he was so bad in that game that Judge and Garrett started the bumper-bowling offense.
Jones executing a full playbook is a turnover and sack machine, like he always is.
He know that there's an 80% that if he doesn't throw to his 1st read that, at the very least, he will be moved off of his spot. Are his secondary targets going to be in the right spot, did he read the coverage correctly, does he have time for a peek-side opportunity?
If he can trust his protection, his targets AND himself, he can be successful...
...IF to the third power on a very young team is a tough plan but it is all that the Giants have in 2024.
This is why I like the Eluemunor signing and Bricillo addition. These vets bring stability to a position group that seems filled with talent but lacking in experience and leadership.
I have high hopes because...I'm a fan of the game.
My expectations are going to be week to week.
I don't expect DJ to stick in NY. He appears rattled and other peoples jobs will be on the line if his performance doesn't rise exponentially.
Since then I haven't seen the aggression from him that he had under Shurmur.
This was pointed out by Sy and others leading up to the 2019 draft. He is a great athlete and a very smart guy, but he has no instincts for playing QB. Shurmur got production out of him, and also a lot of turnovers. When he was coached to avoid turnovers, he also lost the production. He can't do both.
The unreliability due to always being injured combined with the lack of production makes the Giants commitment to him baffling for me.
Smart, tough, dependable? I will give him tough only out of those three.
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Jones got David Carr'd.
More like the 2020 Tampa game happened. he was so bad in that game that Judge and Garrett started the bumper-bowling offense.
Jones executing a full playbook is a turnover and sack machine, like he always is.
That plus what Brandon Graham said after the 2022 playoff loss to the Eagles: they took away Jones' first read and played a spy on him to take away his running lanes. Jones hasn't shown he can scan the field and go through his progressions. The lack of pass pro from a subpar line doesn't help but overall it's a recipe for disaster against well coached teams.
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Jones got David Carr'd.
More like the 2020 Tampa game happened. he was so bad in that game that Judge and Garrett started the bumper-bowling offense.
Jones executing a full playbook is a turnover and sack machine, like he always is.
They were an Antione Winfield non called pass interference away from tying the Super Bowl Champs and going into overtime that game. He actually threw a beautiful pass to Tate to score the TD
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He doesn't have a quick mind to play efficiently from the pocket. It's quite simple.
This was pointed out by Sy and others leading up to the 2019 draft. He is a great athlete and a very smart guy, but he has no instincts for playing QB. Shurmur got production out of him, and also a lot of turnovers. When he was coached to avoid turnovers, he also lost the production. He can't do both.
The unreliability due to always being injured combined with the lack of production makes the Giants commitment to him baffling for me.
Smart, tough, dependable? I will give him tough only out of those three.
The lack of ability to feel the rush coming has stood out from day one to me. It’s an instinctual thing. Even pocket QB’s that aren’t scramblers (eg. Brady, Rivers, Eli,etc.) always had that innate ability to feel that pressure and knew where to shift to either buy time to get it downfield, or throw it away. You didn’t see any of those guys taking a lot of bad sacks or fumbling. It has also led to some of Jones’ injuries. The play in Dallas was classic Jones where he didn’t seem to understand he wouldn’t be able to outrun the defender on the left and got concussed instead of sliding.
TB (2019)
NYJ (2019)
WSH (2019)
PHI (2020)
NO (2021)
IND (2022)
MIN (2022)
ARI (2023)
Judge tried to cut down the turnovers after 2019, but he's what he is. When the competition ramps up and he's playing against fast defenses, he doesn't respond.
Jones had a great 2nd half just last season in Arizona. The competition was lousy.
Someone provide me a game where Jones played well against an elite defense.
hes just not good, never was. I'm tired of beating this horse. Even a scrub QB will give you one good game after 6 stinkers... Just look at Mitch trubisky who once threw 6 TDs in a game, Matt Flynn who once threw 6 TDs.. give a backup QB enough starts and he will occasionally flash... That is who Dan Jones is! We have this bum 60 starts!!!
You hear players say all the time that the game slows down after a year or two. The game just hasn’t seemed to slow down for Jones. If anything he looks more flustered now than he did in his first year or two.
also the league changed over that period of time too. defenses started playing differently and passing got harder.
daboll rehab'ed him as best as we could have hoped probably considering the lack of OL/weapons/etc.
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Jones got David Carr'd.
More like the 2020 Tampa game happened. he was so bad in that game that Judge and Garrett started the bumper-bowling offense.
Jones executing a full playbook is a turnover and sack machine, like he always is.
Bumper bowling because that ESPN chic said it the other day. Dear god, at least have an original thought.. Joe Judge was a disaster of a head coach, disaster..
I don't even think he's all that smart, have you seen his interviews..every answer is him beginning with "ummmmmm...." Not to mention his crazy eyes.
Let's stop assuming he's smart because he's white and went to Duke. I have seen enough of him on the field to know he struggles with reading defenses. Nor has he shown any progress since he's been in the league, I highly doubt his intelligence.
You hear players say all the time that the game slows down after a year or two. The game just hasn’t seemed to slow down for Jones. If anything he looks more flustered now than he did in his first year or two.
You hear players say all the time that the game slows down after a year or two. The game just hasn’t seemed to slow down for Jones. If anything he looks more flustered now than he did in his first year or two.
I don't even think he's all that smart, have you seen his interviews..every answer is him beginning with "ummmmmm...." Not to mention his crazy eyes.
Let's stop assuming he's smart because he's white and went to Duke. I have seen enough of him on the field to know he struggles with reading defenses. Nor has he shown any progress since he's been in the league, I highly doubt his intelligence.
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that mentioned he is smart. I think he’s a super smart guy based on the fact that he went to Duke, his interactions with the media. However, and you see this all the time in the working world. People can be really smart, but not fast at processing information. And at QB at the NFL level, that processing speed is more important than anything.
You hear players say all the time that the game slows down after a year or two. The game just hasn’t seemed to slow down for Jones. If anything he looks more flustered now than he did in his first year or two.
I don't even think he's all that smart, have you seen his interviews..every answer is him beginning with "ummmmmm...." Not to mention his crazy eyes.
Let's stop assuming he's smart because he's white and went to Duke. I have seen enough of him on the field to know he struggles with reading defenses. Nor has he shown any progress since he's been in the league, I highly doubt his intelligence.
OK sir
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In comment 16505417 RomanWH said:
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Jones got David Carr'd.
More like the 2020 Tampa game happened. he was so bad in that game that Judge and Garrett started the bumper-bowling offense.
Jones executing a full playbook is a turnover and sack machine, like he always is.
Bumper bowling because that ESPN chic said it the other day. Dear god, at least have an original thought.. Joe Judge was a disaster of a head coach, disaster..
The stuff you get upset about, geez Louise take a deep breath. It was a funny description so I used it. You disagree that Daboll had had governors on the offense in 2022? (Is it ok with you to say governors?)
But probably got too conservative per Judge
And OL did not do him any favors
Leaned on his legs
Which was taken away last year.
We all agree he needs to do better....I hope he has gotten a clear message.
Let's see what happens this year
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In comment 16505428 sb from NYT Forum said:
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In comment 16505417 RomanWH said:
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Jones got David Carr'd.
More like the 2020 Tampa game happened. he was so bad in that game that Judge and Garrett started the bumper-bowling offense.
Jones executing a full playbook is a turnover and sack machine, like he always is.
Bumper bowling because that ESPN chic said it the other day. Dear god, at least have an original thought.. Joe Judge was a disaster of a head coach, disaster..
The stuff you get upset about, geez Louise take a deep breath. It was a funny description so I used it. You disagree that Daboll had had governors on the offense in 2022? (Is it ok with you to say governors?)
Governors lol. “Golf cart Danny”
Daboll was able to get a productive year out of Jones in 2022 by employing run-pass options, and defenses were so geared to stop Barkley that Jones was able to make plays with his legs. Again, defenses caught on. Pinch the edges, cover the short routes, force Jones to look deep.
Jones can beat average or worse defenses, but he's done virtually zero versus good or better defenses. Better units are calling out the plays, covering like a heavy blanket, and Jones is not good off-script.
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He doesn't read pre-snap well, he doesn't read defenses well in-play, he doesn't throw into the NFL passing windows well, he won't pull the trigger downfield, he misses the open receiver the defense leaves open, and he's often easily beaten by disguises. It doesn't leave much at all to be good at.
The one thing he did do well, though, his rookie year was throw deep. I agree with all your assessments and think this was defenses daring the rookie to throw. Once defenses had him figured out and realized his deficiencies, that was taken away.
That's where you have to look at the defenses he threw long against, and recognize they weren't good units. Jones has had 6-8 of those games in the NFL, virtually all against bad defenses.
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In comment 16505578 JonC said:
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He doesn't read pre-snap well, he doesn't read defenses well in-play, he doesn't throw into the NFL passing windows well, he won't pull the trigger downfield, he misses the open receiver the defense leaves open, and he's often easily beaten by disguises. It doesn't leave much at all to be good at.
The one thing he did do well, though, his rookie year was throw deep. I agree with all your assessments and think this was defenses daring the rookie to throw. Once defenses had him figured out and realized his deficiencies, that was taken away.
That's where you have to look at the defenses he threw long against, and recognize they weren't good units. Jones has had 6-8 of those games in the NFL, virtually all against bad defenses.
Yes the defense didn't help, but if he didn't start EVERY game with a 3-and-out then maybe they would have had a chance.
Look at ALL of his 60 games and you will see the real picture.
I'm not going to give you a scouting report because I don't have the access to make that kind of assessment. I hear a lot about the processing. All I can say is that Dabs knows the plays that are called and is there in the film room. They signed him to a franchise contract, which leads me to believe that he's probably not as bad in that area as the youtubers would have you believe. That is a tough assessment to make by guesswork on film alone.
In 2022 he did get some mileage out of mediocre WRs, but even then a lot was dependent on Saquan. He exeucted the game plan well and did some things with his feet. In neither 2022 nor 2023 did he throw the ball down field. Dabs obviously believed he could do it, or they would not have signed him to the contract. My guess is they saw some things in his rookie year and in practice that led them to that conclusion.
2023 the ENTIRE offense was all out of sorts and Jones was a disaster. I can't say what to make of that. Some things got fixed, but by that time, Jones was injured. Going into this year, there is no way Dabs is going to take over the play calling and stick with a guy if he won't throw down field.
Physically, Jones can do it, we saw plenty of it in training camp last year. Mentally, I'm not so sure. If he is the QB this year we may see something close to what 2023 was supposed to be, provided the line can uphold. I don't think that's unlikely, but it is also a best case situation.
I've given DJ plenty of the benefit of the doubt here, but this is the bottom line --even if Jones does come out and put it all together, which is more likely than people believe --Dabs is not an idiot and knows much more than we do, despite what you may hear. But even if it does all come together for him --we've already seen where he's going to go at the first sight of adversity. Last year was an ugly ugly situation around him --but how did he respond? Not like a franchise QB needs to, by any stretch. He curled up into a ball and became a 3 and out check down turtle.
I hated the pick when they made it. I would never have extended him, but would have understood had they signed him to a favorable contract. They didn't --they far over paid. I can bang my head against the wall about that, but it is what it is. Its salary cap, which sucks, but at least I believe they are ready to move on.
I also support the view that moving on can't be just take the first thing that comes along. It's such a short sighted view many have. And yes, this means we're in one hell of a tough spot with no easy answers. So welcome to why I was openly rooting for losses last season. Call me a bad fan, whatever. I'm sure as hell not going to root for meaningless wins and then turn around and root for us to pass on a legit blue chip prospect so that we can reach for a guy who doesn't grade out at the position. That's how bad teams turn one bad decision into a series of bad decisions.
Look at any backup QB. They will have some good games once in a while. Good QBs have a lot of good games. Daniel is no different. Except that we are giving him 6 consecutive years as the starting QB, which is unprecedented in the last 30 years for a QB as bad as he is.
I'm not going to give you a scouting report because I don't have the access to make that kind of assessment. I hear a lot about the processing. All I can say is that Dabs knows the plays that are called and is there in the film room. They signed him to a franchise contract, which leads me to believe that he's probably not as bad in that area as the youtubers would have you believe. That is a tough assessment to make by guesswork on film alone.
In 2022 he did get some mileage out of mediocre WRs, but even then a lot was dependent on Saquan. He exeucted the game plan well and did some things with his feet. In neither 2022 nor 2023 did he throw the ball down field. Dabs obviously believed he could do it, or they would not have signed him to the contract. My guess is they saw some things in his rookie year and in practice that led them to that conclusion.
2023 the ENTIRE offense was all out of sorts and Jones was a disaster. I can't say what to make of that. Some things got fixed, but by that time, Jones was injured. Going into this year, there is no way Dabs is going to take over the play calling and stick with a guy if he won't throw down field.
Physically, Jones can do it, we saw plenty of it in training camp last year. Mentally, I'm not so sure. If he is the QB this year we may see something close to what 2023 was supposed to be, provided the line can uphold. I don't think that's unlikely, but it is also a best case situation.
I've given DJ plenty of the benefit of the doubt here, but this is the bottom line --even if Jones does come out and put it all together, which is more likely than people believe --Dabs is not an idiot and knows much more than we do, despite what you may hear. But even if it does all come together for him --we've already seen where he's going to go at the first sight of adversity. Last year was an ugly ugly situation around him --but how did he respond? Not like a franchise QB needs to, by any stretch. He curled up into a ball and became a 3 and out check down turtle.
I hated the pick when they made it. I would never have extended him, but would have understood had they signed him to a favorable contract. They didn't --they far over paid. I can bang my head against the wall about that, but it is what it is. Its salary cap, which sucks, but at least I believe they are ready to move on.
I also support the view that moving on can't be just take the first thing that comes along. It's such a short sighted view many have. And yes, this means we're in one hell of a tough spot with no easy answers. So welcome to why I was openly rooting for losses last season. Call me a bad fan, whatever. I'm sure as hell not going to root for meaningless wins and then turn around and root for us to pass on a legit blue chip prospect so that we can reach for a guy who doesn't grade out at the position. That's how bad teams turn one bad decision into a series of bad decisions.
Good post Uber. There’s really nothing I disagree with here.
I'm not going to give you a scouting report because I don't have the access to make that kind of assessment. I hear a lot about the processing. All I can say is that Dabs knows the plays that are called and is there in the film room. They signed him to a franchise contract, which leads me to believe that he's probably not as bad in that area as the youtubers would have you believe. That is a tough assessment to make by guesswork on film alone.
In 2022 he did get some mileage out of mediocre WRs, but even then a lot was dependent on Saquan. He exeucted the game plan well and did some things with his feet. In neither 2022 nor 2023 did he throw the ball down field. Dabs obviously believed he could do it, or they would not have signed him to the contract. My guess is they saw some things in his rookie year and in practice that led them to that conclusion.
2023 the ENTIRE offense was all out of sorts and Jones was a disaster. I can't say what to make of that. Some things got fixed, but by that time, Jones was injured. Going into this year, there is no way Dabs is going to take over the play calling and stick with a guy if he won't throw down field.
Physically, Jones can do it, we saw plenty of it in training camp last year. Mentally, I'm not so sure. If he is the QB this year we may see something close to what 2023 was supposed to be, provided the line can uphold. I don't think that's unlikely, but it is also a best case situation.
I've given DJ plenty of the benefit of the doubt here, but this is the bottom line --even if Jones does come out and put it all together, which is more likely than people believe --Dabs is not an idiot and knows much more than we do, despite what you may hear. But even if it does all come together for him --we've already seen where he's going to go at the first sight of adversity. Last year was an ugly ugly situation around him --but how did he respond? Not like a franchise QB needs to, by any stretch. He curled up into a ball and became a 3 and out check down turtle.
I hated the pick when they made it. I would never have extended him, but would have understood had they signed him to a favorable contract. They didn't --they far over paid. I can bang my head against the wall about that, but it is what it is. Its salary cap, which sucks, but at least I believe they are ready to move on.
I also support the view that moving on can't be just take the first thing that comes along. It's such a short sighted view many have. And yes, this means we're in one hell of a tough spot with no easy answers. So welcome to why I was openly rooting for losses last season. Call me a bad fan, whatever. I'm sure as hell not going to root for meaningless wins and then turn around and root for us to pass on a legit blue chip prospect so that we can reach for a guy who doesn't grade out at the position. That's how bad teams turn one bad decision into a series of bad decisions.
Well said.
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Jones is no different. The only signs of life he's ever shown were with Schurmer and the one year with Dabs, both good OCs.
I'm not going to give you a scouting report because I don't have the access to make that kind of assessment. I hear a lot about the processing. All I can say is that Dabs knows the plays that are called and is there in the film room. They signed him to a franchise contract, which leads me to believe that he's probably not as bad in that area as the youtubers would have you believe. That is a tough assessment to make by guesswork on film alone.
In 2022 he did get some mileage out of mediocre WRs, but even then a lot was dependent on Saquan. He exeucted the game plan well and did some things with his feet. In neither 2022 nor 2023 did he throw the ball down field. Dabs obviously believed he could do it, or they would not have signed him to the contract. My guess is they saw some things in his rookie year and in practice that led them to that conclusion.
2023 the ENTIRE offense was all out of sorts and Jones was a disaster. I can't say what to make of that. Some things got fixed, but by that time, Jones was injured. Going into this year, there is no way Dabs is going to take over the play calling and stick with a guy if he won't throw down field.
Physically, Jones can do it, we saw plenty of it in training camp last year. Mentally, I'm not so sure. If he is the QB this year we may see something close to what 2023 was supposed to be, provided the line can uphold. I don't think that's unlikely, but it is also a best case situation.
I've given DJ plenty of the benefit of the doubt here, but this is the bottom line --even if Jones does come out and put it all together, which is more likely than people believe --Dabs is not an idiot and knows much more than we do, despite what you may hear. But even if it does all come together for him --we've already seen where he's going to go at the first sight of adversity. Last year was an ugly ugly situation around him --but how did he respond? Not like a franchise QB needs to, by any stretch. He curled up into a ball and became a 3 and out check down turtle.
I hated the pick when they made it. I would never have extended him, but would have understood had they signed him to a favorable contract. They didn't --they far over paid. I can bang my head against the wall about that, but it is what it is. Its salary cap, which sucks, but at least I believe they are ready to move on.
I also support the view that moving on can't be just take the first thing that comes along. It's such a short sighted view many have. And yes, this means we're in one hell of a tough spot with no easy answers. So welcome to why I was openly rooting for losses last season. Call me a bad fan, whatever. I'm sure as hell not going to root for meaningless wins and then turn around and root for us to pass on a legit blue chip prospect so that we can reach for a guy who doesn't grade out at the position. That's how bad teams turn one bad decision into a series of bad decisions.
Well said.
I disagree. I think the Giants should take the first thing that comes along. Jones has a known ceiling. Much rather have any QB with a higher potential ceiling, even if the chance at failure is high.
In his banner season, he threw for a whopping 15TD’s and 3,200 yds in 16 games! 200 yds and 1 TD per game is simply ridiculous in todays NFL. Maybe there wasn’t any regression because he has always sucked.
The WFT signs him to a 4/$160M extension. BBI would be unanimous in howling with laughter. Then comes a brutal season, but WFT passes on drafting a QB and doubles down on Haskins. Again, we would be beside ourselves in laughter.
Yet, let’s take a look at what WFT actually did. Coming off a season where their rookie QB had a season not that dissimilar from Jones’ rookie year, almost 4,000 yards, 21 TD’s, with too many INT’s, they drafted his replacement. Yet here we are, with a QB who has never come close to 4,000 yards, and we’re going to run it back again. Good grief.
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In comment 16505771 UberAlias said:
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I also support the view that moving on can't be just take the first thing that comes along. It's such a short sighted view many have. And yes, this means we're in one hell of a tough spot with no easy answers. So welcome to why I was openly rooting for losses last season. Call me a bad fan, whatever. I'm sure as hell not going to root for meaningless wins and then turn around and root for us to pass on a legit blue chip prospect so that we can reach for a guy who doesn't grade out at the position. That's how bad teams turn one bad decision into a series of bad decisions.
Well said.
I disagree. I think the Giants should take the first thing that comes along. Jones has a known ceiling. Much rather have any QB with a higher potential ceiling, even if the chance at failure is high.
Well, maybe they'll bomb out this year, JS will get fired and they bring back David Gettleman so you can have your wish.