Ex GM Mike Lombardi is at it again...The Giants appear to be satisfied with moving ahead with what they have in-house and that, says former NFL executive Michael Lombardi, is ruining the franchise.
"And remember, John Mara, the president of the team — he’s the reason why Daniel Jones is making all that money — he loves Daniel Jones. He drafted Daniel Jones as the sixth pick overall. Nothing would make them more happy than Daniel Jones being successful. They’re almost willing it to happen. It won’t, but they’re hoping it will.”
Lombardi says the Giants’ ‘love’ for players is bringing them down. They are forgetting that the logo on the side of the helmet is more important than the names on the back of the jerseys.
“They have the worst record in the last 10 years in the NFC East. It’s a shame, because the Giants should be a stellar franchise in the league. But, because they fall in love with their players, they love their players, they make bad decisions.”
Lombardi on Giants - (
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Then things go live and he falls apart but still the tease of physical talents remain. So coaches and GMs being whom they are, they think they can unlock/fix him, etc...
I refuse to believe he's in any danger of losing his job as starter here until he actually does or something medical happens. He just fits too many checkboxes that Mara loves.
What are those check boxes?
Now he's back on his "Mara loves Jones" kick.
Seems like he's playing both sides of the street.
Consistency would necessitate logic. And you can see from all the flag waving, that's not what sells either. When Lombardi becomes the mouth piece for your reasoning... LOL, I don't know what to tell ya.
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In comment 16505598 JonC said:
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The interest in Maye was great, but the choice to skip QB altogether after Maye was drafted prolongs the relationship and the failures.
This stuff ain't going away until he plays up to par, or is gone.
Doesn't that align with what you wanted though? No on McCarthy/Penix/Nix at six and if I recall you didn't want to address QB later either with just six picks? My apologies if I'm incorrect.
Yes, but for many others, not the case.
That’s fine. But for better or worse many on this board look to you as the voice of reason so posting what you did and only mention that what you posted is “others” thoughts when called out is a bit lame. I know you’re frustrated by where this team has been, as we all are. I wanted them to take a QB. But you can’t call them not taking a QB outside of Maye a failure when Thayer did exactly what you said you’d have done pre draft.
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If John Mara is so enamored with Jones why did he allow Schoen to decline the 5th year option?
Correct. There is no answer for that other than Schoen controls the roster. And if someone does try to answer that, they are going to hurt themselves getting their brain tied-up and twisted into knots. So, he owns Jones.
And if Mara is the Svengali in this, why did re-signing Jones come down to the final few minutes before Jones could be tagged or declared a free agent in March 2023? Wouldn't Mara have sewn it up hours, days, weeks before that deadline?
Further, why would Mara even let Schoen entertain the thought - if true - of trading up for a QB? Wouldn't Mara put the kibosh on that once he heard the idea?
Look, my distrust of Mara is all over this board for a decade. But what keeps getting discounted in all of this - IMV - is Mara found a GM and HC who are actually very fond of Jones, especially after the playoffs berth and win, and are more than comfortable still moving forward with him.
I also don't discount the possibility that maybe Schoen and Daboll aren't that great at evaluating QBs on their own.
So, help me understand why we keep giving Schoen the benefit of the doubt? Carving out the QB issue, why should I be so impressed with the rest of his roster build?
Have you forgotten Dan Jones 2021 season? Nobody was exercising his 5th year option after that, especially considering he ended the season with neck surgery.
Sy's QB ratings:
McCarthy 84
Jones 80
Nix 80
Penix 79
Yeah, but the issue I see here is that these are ratings coming out of college. Jones had a decent rating but proved he can't do it, a lot of these guys do. So since we have the data that Jones in the NFL is a backup, why not take McCarthy. Maybe he will work out? These guys always get similar ratings, some work out some don't. Why stick with an 80 who after 6 years you know can't do it, when you can get another 80 who may/may not do it?
Mara loves him. We all wish Mara would've paid him $160M to be his pool boy instead of his QB. But as fans, we are subject to the whims of a weak, insecure, jock sniffing owner. It's sad, but that's where we are. All we can hope for is public pressure and the fans to absolutely lay it on once we get back to 3 and outs all 1st half.
I would have drafted McCarthy at six. However, I definitely see people playing both sides. In the lead up to the draft we had plenty of posters criticizing McCarthy and implying he's nowhere near worth six. Most would laugh at the thought of either Penix or Nix at six. But now, it's "how could NYG pass on them at six?" It just feels playing it both sides. And this from someone who wanted QB.
Lastly, the next QB is getting a lot of time. Probably three years minimum, probably four. So be careful settling for someone just "better than Jones".
Unless he has a phenomenal year and stays healthy, Jones is gone after this season. And if does both, then he'll be gone in 2026, when the dead cap hit for cutting him is only $11M IIRC. Jones is now officially at best a "bridge starter" for a year or two, and even that isn't guaranteed, since despite what the Giants are saying right now, he might not be ready to start opening day. And even if he is, Lock might still beat him out.
So if he has 2 very good seasons you want to cut him????? So regardless to how he performs you want to cut him …. That’s what wild
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Seems to me that one could make the argument that McCarthy, Penix, and Nix fall into that category too.
Sy's QB ratings:
McCarthy 84
Jones 80
Nix 80
Penix 79
Yeah, but the issue I see here is that these are ratings coming out of college. Jones had a decent rating but proved he can't do it, a lot of these guys do. So since we have the data that Jones in the NFL is a backup, why not take McCarthy. Maybe he will work out? These guys always get similar ratings, some work out some don't. Why stick with an 80 who after 6 years you know can't do it, when you can get another 80 who may/may not do it?
I don't know how many times I can say the same thing.
The Giants tried to trade up for Maye. Was that realistic? Probably not given New England's QB situation. But they tried.
They heavily scouted the entire QB class. Three were off the board before the Giants picked. So they could have taken the 4th QB, a guy who is more a projection, or draft the "sure thing" WR who many said would have been the top non-QB in a normal draft. They chose to draft the impact WR.
You can make a case they should have "reached" and taken McCarthy or Penix. You can make the case they should have taken the WR.
Only time will tell which move was correct. But neither would have been crazy.
The worst outcome would have been to blow another top 10 pick.
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In comment 16505657 Eric from BBI said:
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Seems to me that one could make the argument that McCarthy, Penix, and Nix fall into that category too.
Sy's QB ratings:
McCarthy 84
Jones 80
Nix 80
Penix 79
Yeah, but the issue I see here is that these are ratings coming out of college. Jones had a decent rating but proved he can't do it, a lot of these guys do. So since we have the data that Jones in the NFL is a backup, why not take McCarthy. Maybe he will work out? These guys always get similar ratings, some work out some don't. Why stick with an 80 who after 6 years you know can't do it, when you can get another 80 who may/may not do it?
I don't know how many times I can say the same thing.
The Giants tried to trade up for Maye. Was that realistic? Probably not given New England's QB situation. But they tried.
They heavily scouted the entire QB class. Three were off the board before the Giants picked. So they could have taken the 4th QB, a guy who is more a projection, or draft the "sure thing" WR who many said would have been the top non-QB in a normal draft. They chose to draft the impact WR.
You can make a case they should have "reached" and taken McCarthy or Penix. You can make the case they should have taken the WR.
Only time will tell which move was correct. But neither would have been crazy.
The worst outcome would have been to blow another top 10 pick.
thats probably the biggest point, at pick 6, you pick QB 4 or QB 5, first, every pundit says its a reach anyhow, and with an evolving roster, would those guys succeed? Pick 1 2 or 3 are probably expected to overcome these things, but 6 QBs in 12 picks, that would seem like QB needy teams shopping hungry. Time will tell, obviously, but I can't exactly connect Nabers as an endorsement of Jones.
Duggan in his winners/losers piece today said that Jones was the biggest winner of the Giants draft since his replacement wasn't picked.
Wanting to trade up means nothing for 2024. Jones is the presumptive qb1 as long as he's healthy. And if he plays like trash the only people who can own that are Shoen and Daboll. He's entrenched as -their- qb now.
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Giants tried to trade up for Maye, and were apparently willing to offer a nice haul of picks to do so, including our #1 next year, which could easily be a top 10 pick. That by itself proves that Schoen, Daboll, and yes, even Mara, were willing to move on from Jones right now.
Unless he has a phenomenal year and stays healthy, Jones is gone after this season. And if does both, then he'll be gone in 2026, when the dead cap hit for cutting him is only $11M IIRC. Jones is now officially at best a "bridge starter" for a year or two, and even that isn't guaranteed, since despite what the Giants are saying right now, he might not be ready to start opening day. And even if he is, Lock might still beat him out.
So if he has 2 very good seasons you want to cut him????? So regardless to how he performs you want to cut him …. That’s what wild
Jones' salary is $46.5M in 2026. His total cap number is $58.6M. Cutting him saves $47.5M against the cap. He would have to be a top five QB this year and in 2025 to justify keeping him at those numbers, especially given his injury history.
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JonA1979 said:, but I can't exactly connect Nabers as an endorsement of Jones.
Duggan in his winners/losers piece today said that Jones was the biggest winner of the Giants draft since his replacement wasn't picked.
Wanting to trade up means nothing for 2024. Jones is the presumptive qb1 as long as he's healthy. And if he plays like trash the only people who can own that are Shoen and Daboll. He's entrenched as -their- qb now.
I don't think so. I think there will be a short leash on Jones this year.
Have you forgotten Dan Jones 2021 season? Nobody was exercising his 5th year option after that, especially considering he ended the season with neck surgery.
Just for my own edification...
Mara let Schoen have that easy call on the 5th year option. But Mara then took back the reigns and handled the contract in March of 2023.
Do I have that right?
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In comment 16505782
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JonA1979 said:, but I can't exactly connect Nabers as an endorsement of Jones.
Duggan in his winners/losers piece today said that Jones was the biggest winner of the Giants draft since his replacement wasn't picked.
Wanting to trade up means nothing for 2024. Jones is the presumptive qb1 as long as he's healthy. And if he plays like trash the only people who can own that are Shoen and Daboll. He's entrenched as -their- qb now.
I don't think so. I think there will be a short leash on Jones this year.
I've said this many times. Obviously I don't have any inside knowledge. But we know Daboll desperately wants to develop a vertical passing game. They spent the #6 overall pick on the most explosive player maker in the draft. Lock is not a great QB, but if there is one thing he can do and is totally willing to do, it's throw the ball down field. Daboll is taking over play calling this year for christ sakes, by all expectations. I mean, do the math. Do we honestly believe Daboll is going to call plays while stubbornly sticking with a QB who refuses to do anything but underneath check downs? Come on. We heard what the Seattle GM had to say about Lock's decision to come here. Simple arithmetic here.
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In comment 16505782
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JonA1979 said:, but I can't exactly connect Nabers as an endorsement of Jones.
Duggan in his winners/losers piece today said that Jones was the biggest winner of the Giants draft since his replacement wasn't picked.
Wanting to trade up means nothing for 2024. Jones is the presumptive qb1 as long as he's healthy. And if he plays like trash the only people who can own that are Shoen and Daboll. He's entrenched as -their- qb now.
I don't think so. I think there will be a short leash on Jones this year.
A short leash with the back up being Lock seems like questionable decision making imo
Mara loves him. We all wish Mara would've paid him $160M to be his pool boy instead of his QB. But as fans, we are subject to the whims of a weak, insecure, jock sniffing owner. It's sad, but that's where we are. All we can hope for is public pressure and the fans to absolutely lay it on once we get back to 3 and outs all 1st half.
Agree 100% but sadly I get the feeling majority of our fanbase still supports DJ and believes he will magically turn it around sooner or later. Not to mention most other fanbases would have had the pitchforks out after 3 years.
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Have you forgotten Dan Jones 2021 season? Nobody was exercising his 5th year option after that, especially considering he ended the season with neck surgery.
Just for my own edification...
Mara let Schoen have that easy call on the 5th year option. But Mara then took back the reigns and handled the contract in March of 2023.
Do I have that right?
The Maras don't do it Jerry Jones style. They just tend to put their thumb on the scale.
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Have you forgotten Dan Jones 2021 season? Nobody was exercising his 5th year option after that, especially considering he ended the season with neck surgery.
Just for my own edification...
Mara let Schoen have that easy call on the 5th year option. But Mara then took back the reigns and handled the contract in March of 2023.
Do I have that right?
You seem to really be dismissing how 2022 played out. Even the biggest Jones apologists weren't advocating for the 5th year option to be picked up. That was such an easy decision.
A playoff win for the first time in over a decade? You think Schoen could have walked into Mara's office and say he's going to let Jones walk? After Mara declared Jones the franchise QB and called the Giants being "back".
Come on, this isn't a black and white issue.
“To me, it was the poise,” Mara said. “That building is as loud as can be, and you look at him, and he’s in complete control of the offense. It gave me a lot of confidence that I don’t care how many times they score, we’re gonna score more.”
I asked Mara when it became a finality to him that Daniel Jones would be his Quarterback of the Future.
Mara laughed when it was suggested that he got the succession plan for Eli right (yes, with former GM Dave Gettleman’s help) and said: “Hey I can’t screw up everything, I gotta get something right.”
Asked what he thought of his quarterback, Steve Tisch smiled and said: “The world.”
Just read the fucking quotes. This was a pending FA. But, let's compare Schoen to situations like Ryan Poles and Adam Peters. It's nowhere near the same.
The Maras had their guy. Schoen absolutely gets the chance to draft/trade for another QB.
And bw, considering your very vocal concerns of McCarthy in the draft lead up, surely you understand Schoen passing on him at 6.
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"I've said it all year," coach Brian Daboll told reporters after the game. "He's been good for us. He continues to be good for us. And he played a good game. I think there's a lot of other people that played good games too to help him play a good game. He'll be the first to admit it. As the leader of our football team, I'm proud of him."
If John Mara is so enamored with Jones why did he allow Schoen to decline the 5th year option?
Jay on the Island : 5/3/2024 4:55 pm : link : reply
They are so in love with Daniel Jones that they offered NE two 1st round picks for a chance to draft his replacement.
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Jay on the Island : 5/3/2024 4:56 pm : link : reply
If John Mara is so enamored with Jones why did he allow Schoen to decline the 5th year option?
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Also
Jay on the Island : 5/3/2024 4:55 pm : link : reply
They are so in love with Daniel Jones that they offered NE two 1st round picks for a chance to draft his replacement.
Ultimately, it's both. The NYG organization likes Jones, but picking Nabers doesn't mean they are "all in" on him either.
You've got BBI posters upset they didn't take a QB very few if any had top ten grades on as a proclamation that they are still all in on Jones. Come on.
I just really can't get over the fact that they can't pull the trigger on ANY QB in any draft in any round for years now. Such myopic thinking, especially in a league dominated by that position and the fact that evaluating college prospects is an imperfect science.
I just really can't get over the fact that they can't pull the trigger on ANY QB in any draft in any round for years now. Such myopic thinking, especially in a league dominated by that position and the fact that evaluating college prospects is an imperfect science.
100%
I disagree. I think Jones is perfectly reflective of their flaws. They stretched out Manning way beyond his shelf life, then over drafted a flawed player who turned out to have durability and talent issues.
Lot of players and coaches contributed to the successful 2022 season. Three key players on on O were Thomas, Barkley and....Jones.
All-in isn't the right term, no.
But I do think everyone is making too much out of temp checking with New England.
The Giants are the couple who bought a house they like but don't love, and check Zillow from time-to-time. A really perfect brand new house came on the market down the street, and they made the highest offer they qualified for. But it wasn't enough.
It doesn't mean they're unhappy with their house. Not when there are other brand new houses available that they can afford with cash, and choose not to buy.
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I don't think they are all-in on Jones in the slightest.
All-in isn't the right term, no.
But I do think everyone is making too much out of temp checking with New England.
The Giants are the couple who bought a house they like but don't love, and check Zillow from time-to-time. A really perfect brand new house came on the market down the street, and they made the highest offer they qualified for. But it wasn't enough.
It doesn't mean they're unhappy with their house. Not when there are other brand new houses available that they can afford with cash, and choose not to buy.
Yeah, I think its a few rungs higher than a temp checking or an occasional click on Zillow. Schoen and his team scouted this QB class from Oct 2023 thru April 2024 as hard as (if not harder) than any team in the entire NFL.
They don't diss on their house but Schoen & Co. does want to move to a different neighborhood. It is just incredulous how they refuse to take any swing in any draft in any round though.
There are only so many times their actions indicate they like Jones, before it's unequivocal they like Jones.
There are only so many times their actions indicate they like Jones, before it's unequivocal they like Jones.
Again, no dispute they like Jones. However, they seem overly gun-shy to pulling any trigger on what could be another bad investment.
And in that fashion are limiting their upside, no matter how well they build up the rest of the roster.
There are only so many times their actions indicate they like Jones, before it's unequivocal they like Jones.
Again, no dispute they like Jones. However, they seem overly gun-shy to pulling any trigger on what could be another bad investment.
And in that fashion are limiting their upside, no matter how well they build up the rest of the roster.
I agree. They are paralyzed.
They like Jones, and the only way they'll replace him is with the perfect prospect.
It's classic great as the enemy of good thinking.
I don't think they need to restructure him, because if they need cap room this year, they can get it from Thomas.
Along those lines, make no mistake, if Jones has an acceptable year he's holding out for a new contract.
No chance in hell he goes into 25/26 with zero guaranteed money.
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They're well researched, but when it came to real action, they made what's been described as a perfunctory offer to New England. And with prospects KOC and Payton deemed as their future, the Giants passed.
There are only so many times their actions indicate they like Jones, before it's unequivocal they like Jones.
Again, no dispute they like Jones. However, they seem overly gun-shy to pulling any trigger on what could be another bad investment.
And in that fashion are limiting their upside, no matter how well they build up the rest of the roster.
I agree. They are paralyzed.
They like Jones, and the only way they'll replace him is with the perfect prospect.
It's classic great as the enemy of good thinking.
I wouldn’t call Maye a perfect prospect
Yet….they tried to get him
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John Mara was stopped in the middle of this joyous Giants locker room and marveled at the way his franchise quarterback performed.
“To me, it was the poise,” Mara said. “That building is as loud as can be, and you look at him, and he’s in complete control of the offense. It gave me a lot of confidence that I don’t care how many times they score, we’re gonna score more.”
I asked Mara when it became a finality to him that Daniel Jones would be his Quarterback of the Future.
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“It was a while ago I think … he just keeps getting better and better every week,” Mara said.
Mara laughed when it was suggested that he got the succession plan for Eli right (yes, with former GM Dave Gettleman’s help) and said: “Hey I can’t screw up everything, I gotta get something right.”
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Kid brother Chris Mara: “We got somebody going forward.”
Asked what he thought of his quarterback, Steve Tisch smiled and said: “The world.”
Just read the fucking quotes. This was a pending FA. But, let's compare Schoen to situations like Ryan Poles and Adam Peters. It's nowhere near the same.
The Maras had their guy. Schoen absolutely gets the chance to draft/trade for another QB.
And bw, considering your very vocal concerns of McCarthy in the draft lead up, surely you understand Schoen passing on him at 6. Link - ( New Window )
I really wish the Maras never spoke again to the media. It’s embarrassing.
My thoughts exactly.
Lock is more like the cleaning lady that visits weekly, who you sometimes fantasize about but never do anything with..
Cheating would be drafting a QB high.
Do you how many people get fooled by they the person claiming they are “going to get a divorce but the timing isnt right” and it never happens?
Just read the fucking quotes. This was a pending FA. But, let's compare Schoen to situations like Ryan Poles and Adam Peters. It's nowhere near the same.
The Maras had their guy. Schoen absolutely gets the chance to draft/trade for another QB.
And bw, considering your very vocal concerns of McCarthy in the draft lead up, surely you understand Schoen passing on him at 6. Link - ( New Window )
Let me ask you a hypothetical that's going to require some imagination.
Let's say Jones turns it around and has a breakout season in 2024, statistically and the team qualifies for the playoffs. And he erases any doubts that he's the man for 2025.
Who is getting the credit for sticking with Jones? Mara or Schoen?
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Just read the fucking quotes. This was a pending FA. But, let's compare Schoen to situations like Ryan Poles and Adam Peters. It's nowhere near the same.
The Maras had their guy. Schoen absolutely gets the chance to draft/trade for another QB.
And bw, considering your very vocal concerns of McCarthy in the draft lead up, surely you understand Schoen passing on him at 6. Link - ( New Window )
Let me ask you a hypothetical that's going to require some imagination.
Let's say Jones turns it around and has a breakout season in 2024, statistically and the team qualifies for the playoffs. And he erases any doubts that he's the man for 2025.
Who is getting the credit for sticking with Jones? Mara or Schoen?
daboll. kidding. kind of, but i guess not really?
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Just read the fucking quotes. This was a pending FA. But, let's compare Schoen to situations like Ryan Poles and Adam Peters. It's nowhere near the same.
The Maras had their guy. Schoen absolutely gets the chance to draft/trade for another QB.
And bw, considering your very vocal concerns of McCarthy in the draft lead up, surely you understand Schoen passing on him at 6. Link - ( New Window )
Let me ask you a hypothetical that's going to require some imagination.
Let's say Jones turns it around and has a breakout season in 2024, statistically and the team qualifies for the playoffs. And he erases any doubts that he's the man for 2025.
Who is getting the credit for sticking with Jones? Mara or Schoen?
That would be a pelt in Mara's belt imo where he will say patience came through just like 2007 and 2011.
Schoen is not free of blame. I'm not trying to imply that. My main point is not every GM job is created equal and Schoen inherited a very difficult situation with two top ten picks on the roster who the owner loved.
This franchise was really bad and then 2022 happened with Jones & Barkley playing a significant role.
Is the question really who's getting the credit? Or is it who's taking the credit?
Because the latter will absolutely be Mara regardless of how heavy anyone believes his thumb has been on the scale.