While most of the attention has understandably and correctly been focused on signed free agents Jon Runyan, Jr. and Jermaine Eluemunor, the Giants did sign three other "bargain basement" veteran free agents:
- OC/OG Austin Schlottmann
- OG Aaron Stinnie
- RT/LT Matt Nelson
I've been reviewing their background stories and fan reaction to each departing from their former teams.
All three players have started games when front-line players got injured, and all three received kudos from their respective fan bases for their play when called upon.
Of the three, Viking fans seemed more upset in losing Schlottmann as they felt not only did he do well when called upon, but some felt there wasn't a big difference between him and their starting center Garrett Bradburry.
Stinnie had two extended stints filling in for an injured starter. The first was actually starting during the team's playoff run including the Super Bowl win over the Chiefs. The next came last year where he started 11 games. Coaches praised him for his play, especially during his 5 post-season starts.
Nelson is a converted defensive lineman. He has survived as a swing tackle for four years on one of the NFL's better lines. He started 11 games in 2021 and two games last year before he got hurt. He has also been used as an extra lineman on heavy packages.
None of these guys are probably ideal starters (hence their contracts). But all three can actually come into a game and play at an acceptable level if called upon. I have no doubt that all three would have started on the Giants last year.
In other words, on paper, our depth situation is infinitely better. Schoen and Daboll appear to have learned their lesson about going with too much youth.
schlottmann impressed me 2 years ago when bradbury was out, dex had a good game but he was killing starters that year so it was surprising the backup held up decent. i think they had a few guys out on their OL and we expected it to blow up on them and it didnt.
should be both. none of the 7 or 8 guys who dress on game day should be liabilities. which means ezeudu and mckethan both need to get a lot better. neal too.
its possible they all look better without bobby johnson.
I honestly don't get some of the fans reaction to the handling of the Oline this year. Yes, we would have loved to draft an Oline, but the investments were made ahead of time in FA to allow us to focus on value. That's what good teams do-- they address needs in FA to give themselves freedom to focus on value in the draft. We brought in two FAs with starter experience and two more who project as depth to compete with the four developing prospects drafted by this admiration. We'll see what our new Oline coach can do with these guys.
The team felt good enough with what they did in FA to turn their draft focus to the defensive secondary. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't. But when I look at the Oline, I see a reasonable mix of veteran experience and developmental prospects. This is especially true when you consider what they paid out to UDFAs. The two linemen they signed essentially grade out as late draft picks. Of course they are long shots, but they're basically more rolls of the dice.
I honestly don't get some of the fans reaction to the handling of the Oline this year. Yes, we would have loved to draft an Oline, but the investments were made ahead of time in FA to allow us to focus on value. That's what good teams do-- they address needs in FA to give themselves freedom to focus on value in the draft. We brought in two FAs with starter experience and two more who project as depth to compete with the four developing prospects drafted by this admiration. We'll see what our new Oline coach can do with these guys.
The team felt good enough with what they did in FA to turn their draft focus to the defensive secondary. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't. But when I look at the Oline, I see a reasonable mix of veteran experience and developmental prospects. This is especially true when you consider what they paid out to UDFAs. The two linemen they signed essentially grade out as late draft picks. Of course they are long shots, but they're basically more rolls of the dice.
They also went out and gave a ton of guaranteed money (in UDFA terms) to an FCS guard named Jake Kubas. More than they even gave Bryce Ford-Wheaton last year. Duggan said it was the second most for any UDFA this year (on any team). It isn't much but even more than McKethan or Stinnie for example. The money would carry over to the practice squad but it has a similar effect to a late round pick really. It is more than a year's practice squad salary so he's not going anywhere, they would probably add him to the roster before letting another team take him.
Agree on Neal and JMS. McKethan was a late 5th rounder who missed his whole rookie year with a torn ACL and struggled coming back, better to have another plan if he isn't working out then hope that he pans out year 3. I rather not see Pugh start midseason again off his couch. Ezeudu had to play left tackle and then lost the rest of his season to injury so no development was happening there.
With Schlottmann, he is Bredesen's replacement, none of them are backup centers. Stinnie was healthy last year unlike those two. Nelson actually plays tackle unlike forcing Ezeudu. These all seem pretty separate.
I’m sure I’m not alone here in being so disappointed that every OL guy DRAFTED has been nothing but dog Pooh ! How could that be? How could guys rated highly like Neal and JMS play like my grandma? I don’t know if Bobby Johnson can take all the blame. We shall see….this year should be telling.
Anyhow all 3 of the guys you named should be seeing substantial playing time either due to I jury or inability. Let’s hope Andrew Thomas isn’t one of them injured.
See problem, address problem. Kudos to Schoen and company; new blood and a new OL coach and assistants. The absolute worst position group (including QB) on the team was actively addressed. I’m expecting an average OL this year and that will make everyone on offense look a lot better. We may even get a few exciting plays; we have some good potential playmakers on the squad now.
Starters: Thomas, Runyan, JMS, Eluemenor, Neal
Backups: Schlottman, Stinnie, Nelson, Ezeudu, McKethan
Another, less obvious perhaps, failure last year was the shitty depth at TE and that's another area they have heavily addressed this offseason to their credit.
Avoiding mentioning one player for obvious reasons but I think improved depth of OL and TE as well as an injection of top end talent at WR should dramatically improve our offense (which was a bottom 5 offense last year).
Perhaps a controversial opinion.. but our running game was average last year statistically, maybe even a shade below average. I don't think we really see a decline from that this year. If anything, an improved OL & blocking overall (TEs) should help more than losing SB hurts.
So this off-season they overcompensated. Bravo.
I expect it will be the last time either Daboll or Schoen devote more than 2 roster spots to unproven and undeveloped linemen.
Regardless, they don't have to be thrown to the wolves now.
I hope you’re right but I don’t see a big difference between these guys and the other bargain bin vets we’ve brought in. They get here and they look like horseshit.
Breakdowns turned first-and-tens into second-and-fifteens with a bruised QB, and then a "three and out."
Even if our bargain vets can't protect the QB for as long a time as we'd like, if they can protect him for a short, but consistent time, it would allow the QB to develope a rhythm, rather than him just focusing on staying alive from an unblocked defender.
I hope you’re right but I don’t see a big difference between these guys and the other bargain bin vets we’ve brought in. They get here and they look like horseshit.
They only signed one cheap veteran free agent last year. And he missed the season with an injury.
Hopefully between the vet signings and the new OL coach, the OL finally gets solidified. I think that is a better strategy than drafting rookie OL who need to be developed. Once the OL gets solidified (and we have more picks), we can get back to drafting young OL
Hopefully between the vet signings and the new OL coach, the OL finally gets solidified. I think that is a better strategy than drafting rookie OL who need to be developed. Once the OL gets solidified (and we have more picks), we can get back to drafting young OL
The Buccaneers organization actually did a nice overview of Stinnie as a 2024 free agent.
2024 Buccaneers Free Agent Focus: Aaron Stinnie - ( New Window )
I also think the TE group has chance at being pretty well improved in terms of blocking.
I am anxiously looking forward to seeing how Daboll will construct this offense away from Barkley being the focal point to WR/TE with a RB by committee style.
I also think the TE group has chance at being pretty well improved in terms of blocking.
I am anxiously looking forward to seeing how Daboll will construct this offense away from Barkley being the focal point to WR/TE with a RB by committee style.
If these guys were on the team last year, the OL doesn't fall apart. Eluemunor can actually play left tackle too. Nelson has played both tackle spots.
I also think the TE group has chance at being pretty well improved in terms of blocking.
I am anxiously looking forward to seeing how Daboll will construct this offense away from Barkley being the focal point to WR/TE with a RB by committee style.
The two blocking TEs are also huge. Good point. IMO, they need to keep both if they can and they are ok. I remember last year they signed the one blocking TE (his name escapes me) in preseason and he got injured. They didn't find an adequate replacement.
1.) Jon Runyan - $3.75M/$9M/$9M - 6th rd
2.) Jermaine Eleumunor - $1.25M/5.75M - 5th rd
3.) Matt Nelson - $1.25M - UDFA
4.) Aaron Stinnie - $1.25M - UDFA
5.) Austin Schlottmann - $1.25M - UDFA
The Giants FO is in a tough spot. They gotta find an OL plan that works - and I get why they did what they did.
However, they have to get to a place where their OWN draft picks and UDFA are being selected in mid-to-late rounds or being identifying post draft as quality depth options and even possibly (it happens all the time to other teams - see above) develop them into above average starting players in the NFL.
Signing other team's 5th/6th/UDFA to contracts like the ones above (and I'm sure you can nit-pick the amounts and guaranteed money - I just used the generic info available on the BBI tab); it's just NOT a viable long term option for roster construction.
Bricillo has proven he knows what he's doing. We need him to develop Neal, JMS and the other youngsters. And with the added depth, we should be able to handle injuries better.
I believe with Bricillo and the talent we have, we're going to FINALLY put the dark ages of our OL behind us. Just league avg would be a huge improvement.
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They are coming from a non-Giants situation to a situation where the OL has been an unexplainable dumpster fire for over a decade, spanning many players, coaches and GMs.
I hope you’re right but I don’t see a big difference between these guys and the other bargain bin vets we’ve brought in. They get here and they look like horseshit.
They only signed one cheap veteran free agent last year. And he missed the season with an injury.
Fair point, but I’m going back farther than that. There’s been a lot of bargain bin guys coming in here to stabilize the situation and it’s always the same story. I realize I’m just complaining now, but they’ve lost the benefit of the doubt with this fan. I’m expecting the worst and hoping for the best.
Evan Neal
Mark Glowinski
John Michael Schmitz
Ben Bredeson
Andrew Thomas
Shane Lemieux
Joshua Ezeudu
Matt Peart
Marcus McKethan
Lemieux and Peart as the veteran depth was a huge red flag.
This is what make the Eloumanour signing so important. He can play OT and OG. That versatility is critical. Also having a good back up C/G in Schlotmann will give him an edge in making the roster.
So assuming Elumenour plays RG, this is maybe how it unfolds"
Starters: Thomas, Runyan, JMS, JE, Neal
Back ups:
OT: Nelson
OG: Stinnie, Ezudu
OC: Schlotmann
Schlotmann also at OG, Elumenour also at OT
Pretty solid IMO
Evan Neal
Mark Glowinski
John Michael Schmitz
Ben Bredeson
Andrew Thomas
Shane Lemieux
Joshua Ezeudu
Matt Peart
Marcus McKethan
Lemieux and Peart as the veteran depth was a huge red flag.
So, SO, SO! ridiculous that it was Lemieux and Peart they kept in lieu of Tyre Phillips and Feliciano. And on top of that don't even use Peart to fill in for Thomas... use Ezeudu? And barely play the starting OL together in preseason?? Ugh. I get infuriated every time I think about how they dealt with the OL last year. And fuck Bobby Johnson! lol
-LT: Andrew Thomas, Matt Nelson
-LG: Jon Runyan Jr., Jake Kubas (highest paid UDFA ever by Schoen)
-C: JMS, Schlottmann
-RG: Jermaine Eluemunor, Aaron Stinnie
-RT: Evan Neal
I think McKethan is definitely gone and Ezeudu's health vs Kubas will be the one battle.
And Schlottmann can play guard and center.
Having terrible blocking TEs compounded how bad the OL looked.
Manhertz looks as good a blocking TE as we've had in years and Stoll is supposedly pretty good, too. This is the NY Giants - enough of Engram and Waller at TE already. It's been an achilles heel for years.
We want to be a good running team, but we have a blocking liability at TE. It doens't work.
-LT: Andrew Thomas, Matt Nelson
-LG: Jon Runyan Jr., Jake Kubas (highest paid UDFA ever by Schoen)
-C: JMS, Schlottmann
-RG: Jermaine Eluemunor, Aaron Stinnie
-RT: Evan Neal
I think McKethan is definitely gone and Ezeudu's health vs Kubas will be the one battle.
I like your thinking here, Dog! Well done….
Age and treachery vs. youth and skill.
Bring it on.
I'm still curious about Ezeudu's health status. It feels like last year with Aaron Robinson where the public was kept in the dark. I don't doubt they would want to keep a third rounder but don't know his status. I really do think McKethan is on thin ice though. Bench Glowinski was in front of him, Pugh off the couch was in front of him, Bredeson who wasn't brought back was in front of him... unless Bricillo sees something I could see him being odd man out.
I will also note that when I say that the one guy is the highest paid UDFA that doesn't really mean all that much. He got $270K gtd, but annual practice squad salary is $216K minimum if he were to be there the full year so most of the money goes to that. They really just gtd a bit more and that they would keep him there if it comes to that. Just an indicator they like him.
Toes can be pretty gnarly. Last year I was checking BBI and walk into the floor board by the bathroom.
I look down and my first thought is "Where did my toe go." I run into the living room and ask my wife if I've lost my mind, because I can't find my middle toe.
It's laying sideways on the top of my foot. Like fully dislocated and you could see the space between. It didn't actually hurt that bad.
But it's been a year and I'm just now starting to feel completely normal. And I don't weight 300 pounds or run around much.
And Schlottmann can play guard and center.
Yup, the versatility is so important. Not sure on Ezudu's health but he was a 3rd round pick. I would have to assume that Schoen wants him to get every opportunity to make this team.
Regardless, they don't have to be thrown to the wolves now.
It's gnawed at me from that first draft on: Schoen and Daboll are hired early 2022 and don't have too much wiggle room but to buy into the incumbent scouting team, the same team that has continued the serial offenders on the OL. So Ezeudu, McKeithan--even Neal, albeit he was figured as close to a sure thing as a rookie gets, by most all of us: Sy' flew the red flags. I'm still not convinced that all the scouts that needed to be purged have been, but Schoen certainly has his own guys at the top to manage college scouting (with one notable exception).
Someone mentioned the low slots at which these FAs were originally drafted--and Eric, yes, good post--but OLs who are drafted on Day 3 (let alone Day 2) and step in and start from day one are not a rarity. We just have been inept at finding them since Diehl and Seubert.
These 3 veterans should all have trade value at cutdown if any are beaten out by others like Ezeudu and/or McKethan. Round 7 draft picks do have some value.
Nelson’s situation is unusual since his fate may be tied to Neal’s fate. Neal could end up as starting RT, swing tackle, or guard “in training”. Stinnie role also depends on what happens with Neal.
Although 1 or 2 UDFAs could make the 53, I consider signing UDFAs as a means to pre-populate the practice squad.
Question: If a UDFA with a large guarantee is cut and picked up by another team, do the Giants remain responsible for the guarantee? Does it make a difference if the player is picked up on waivers or picked up for another team’s practice squad?
We shop hungry.
Overpay(Solder Golloday)
Immediately effects depths
Injuries cripple us
we lose
Fans cry
We fire everyone, they feel pressure to win shop hungry and repeat the process.
The evidence says this believes in the QB, is acquiring depth and spending the resources and capital on the correct positions.
They have a plan.
Protect the QB, young vets and depth.
Attack the QB
Execute an offense that relies on separation and YAC.
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Kubas and Johnson, if they have a chance, probably need a year on the PS and in the weight room.
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Although 1 or 2 UDFAs could make the 53, I consider signing UDFAs as a means to pre-populate the practice squad.
Question: If a UDFA with a large guarantee is cut and picked up by another team, do the Giants remain responsible for the guarantee? Does it make a difference if the player is picked up on waivers or picked up for another team’s practice squad?
Part of each guaranteed amount is a signing bonus, so they would be on the hook for the no matter what. Kubas was $30K I believe. Then the rest of the time they spend on a practice squad is offset from the guarantees, so it would depend on how many weeks.That's why giving a player an amount equal to the full amount or a bit more than the full annual deal is considered a sign they want them to stick around since they are insuring they get the full year no matter what even if another team ends up paying for a few weeks after a cut.